[HN Gopher] Overkill objects for everyday life
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Overkill objects for everyday life
        
       Author : mrzool
       Score  : 588 points
       Date   : 2021-05-30 16:10 UTC (6 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (neil.computer)
 (TXT) w3m dump (neil.computer)
        
       | yt-sdb wrote:
       | I do this with clothes. You can buy a good pair of hiking shoes
       | or a lightweight waterproof jacket for the same price as design-
       | oriented goods. Why pay Nike for a logo when I can pay Salomon
       | for durability and tread? Same thing with luggage: I buy cycling
       | oriented backpacks and duffle bags because they're strong and
       | waterproof.
        
       | FpUser wrote:
       | >"Dough maker... It was built in Ohio when we used to make things
       | in the US"
       | 
       | Whenever I see a chance to buy old industrial grade stuff I use
       | it. Nearly everything they used to do lasts forever. If you want
       | to find the same quality now it either not available or you pay
       | through the nose. Granted for many things we probably do not care
       | all that much if they last 3 years or 30.
        
       | cupcake-unicorn wrote:
       | Came to the same realization recently when shopping for kitchen
       | appliances. I couldn't find any blender that wasn't breaking or
       | acting dodgy after a few months. These of course don't come up
       | when you search for them as a consumer but there are for sure
       | industrial blenders used at bars and such. I realized that going
       | forward if I don't want ot have to buy a new one every year or so
       | pretty much for anything I'd have to research and go this route.
       | The beaker glasses is a good example because you sometimes have
       | to get creative to find the industrial version of something.
        
       | sargun wrote:
       | One of my first forays into this was a proper blowtorch vs a
       | normal kitchen torch.
       | 
       | My recipes requires adjusting, but once I fixed them up, they
       | were great.
        
         | klyrs wrote:
         | I briefly lived in a studio apartment. The kitchen was spacious
         | and had tile flooring, so that's where the bandsaw went. I
         | didn't cut food with it, but food packets were fair game.
         | 
         | Though -- I'd argue that using a bandsaw for blisterpacks isn't
         | overkill; it's the safest way to get them open.
        
           | GloriousKoji wrote:
           | I have a pair of cheap (harbor freight) tin snips I keep in
           | the kitchen drawer for opening blister packs.
        
             | s5300 wrote:
             | Hand operated can opener is the secret to clamshell plastic
             | packaging
        
               | fmajid wrote:
               | Offset scissors like the Allex SH-1 are the way to go.
        
               | klyrs wrote:
               | That sounds incredibly slow in comparison to a bandsaw
               | (also cheap crap from harbor freight -- but I got mine 20
               | years ago and it's still ticking along fine)
        
               | s5300 wrote:
               | Bandsaws should only be used to make other larger
               | bandsaws per @MatthiasWandel
               | 
               | https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=MatthiasWandel
        
               | klyrs wrote:
               | I'm pretty sure that I established that a bandsaw is a
               | kitchen implement (and, it's not even a stretch --
               | they're common in butcher shops). Is it Alton Brown who
               | says that single-use kitchen appliances are verboten? I
               | tend to agree.
               | 
               | You can also use a bandsaw to cut a sliver off a sheet of
               | 16ga steel and use that to light a cigarette. It's truly
               | all-purpose
        
               | yarcob wrote:
               | I'd love a bandsaw in the kitchen to cut frozen food. (so
               | I don't need to thaw the whole thing if I need just a
               | bit)
        
             | javajosh wrote:
             | I mean, I love the idea of finding more uses for tin snips,
             | but I use a standard utility knife on a cutting board and
             | it works great. The key is to cut all the way around, and
             | press hard through the plastic. Don't force yourself to
             | lever up the plastic, because that's how you slice open
             | your hand.
        
         | el_benhameen wrote:
         | Same here! Plus, if you need to solder some plumbing, you
         | already have the right tool. A true Alton-esque multitasker.
        
         | kevinmchugh wrote:
         | If you're using a real blowtorch, get a searzall to go on it.
        
           | cobalt wrote:
           | roofing torch works better and is cheaper :P
        
       | dusted wrote:
       | Definitely doing this, if I need something I will look for the
       | industrial option first, we don't have a big military industrial
       | complex in Denmark, so I can't go milspec. Vacuum cleaners is a
       | great place to start,
        
         | yarcob wrote:
         | Except that commercial vacuum cleaners are huge, loud and cost
         | 3x as much as a good consumer vacuum cleaner.
         | 
         | But the bags are bigger.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | abeppu wrote:
       | > The average consumer wants this stuff. It sells. They want
       | pizzaz over functionality and durability.
       | 
       | What is functionality though? What is pizzaz? When are they the
       | same and when are they different?
       | 
       | E.g. the famous Emeco 1006 chair, which won a contract to supply
       | the US Navy by being thrown out a window and not breaking. It
       | became a design classic, and now sells for $600 each. It gained a
       | kind of following, which is in part based on this history. But is
       | that durability especially functional for your home or restaurant
       | environment which isn't on a warship? Do you think you're going
       | to use your chair as a hammer some days? Or is fetishizing
       | something used by the military and extreme durability its own
       | form of pizzaz?
       | 
       | https://www.dwr.com/kitchen-dining-chairs-benches/1006-navy-...
       | https://www.emeco.net/variants/emeco-1006-navy-chair-brushed...
       | https://99percentinvisible.org/episode/77-steps/
        
         | mcguire wrote:
         | I can't speak to the 1006, but my office chair is a mid-century
         | Steelcase because I got tired of others breaking or losing
         | wheels.
        
         | spitfire wrote:
         | It's apparently useful for police departments. Or so says every
         | police show ever...
        
         | seoaeu wrote:
         | The functionality is making the owner feel superior to consumer
         | who buy consumer grade products
        
       | Metacelsus wrote:
       | >VWR - This is my kitchen goods store. Usually sells billions of
       | dollars of things to labs around the world.
       | 
       | These days they're notorious for shipping backlogs (my lab
       | ordered things 5 months ago and still hasn't got them).
        
       | alexander_gold wrote:
       | https://cannablazeweed.net
        
       | rsync wrote:
       | I appreciate the link and summary for McMaster-Carr[1].
       | 
       | It is so pleasing to use this site and it is simultaneously full
       | of utility as they stock a wide array of fixtures and hardware
       | that are difficult to search for elsewhere.
       | 
       | If you place an order before noon (typically) the box of goods
       | will be in your hands the next day.
       | 
       | The user interface is a wonder. It's too good to be true. In
       | fact, using the UI actually _saddens_ me because you know some
       | kid who thinks they are a design genius is going to get hired
       | there and  "improve things". It's almost a physical law.
       | 
       | [1] https://www.mcmaster.com/
        
         | wyager wrote:
         | I'm not surprised to see you evangelizing McMaster - mentally,
         | I bin you and them in the same category of "no bullshit"
         | suppliers. Products for competent people, by competent people,
         | when most suppliers seem to be targeting the lowest common
         | denominator of consumer.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | Scoundreller wrote:
         | Some electronics vendors have figured it out too. A Parametric
         | search first approach means I can find exactly what I need.
         | 
         | Will I ever find the rs-232 transceiver that I need on Amazon?
         | Unlikely.
        
         | snth wrote:
         | And you can find stuff like "Nuclear Grade Duct Tape":
         | https://www.mcmaster.com/fastening-tape/nuclear-grade-duct-t...
        
           | wyager wrote:
           | I bought some socks from McMaster and they are pretty nice.
        
         | jrockway wrote:
         | McMaster's website loads so quickly I looked into what server
         | they're using, because it seems so much better than whatever
         | everyone else has.
         | 
         | Apparently it is an ASP.NET app, served by IIS, cached on
         | Akamai's CDN. Not quite what you're going to see on your
         | average HN blog post.
        
         | CarVac wrote:
         | To me, McMaster-Carr is the best website in existence.
         | 
         | The clarity of information presentation is unparalleled.
        
       | Gravityloss wrote:
       | A local company, Varusteleka has been extremely successful and
       | grown rapidly from selling military surplus equipment bought from
       | here and there as well as "tactical" looking stuff made cheaply
       | somewhere.
       | 
       | I've bought for example some Swiss army surplus towels for a bike
       | trip. They were really good (small, durable, functional,
       | beautiful) but a bit too small so you couldn't wrap one around
       | yourself.
       | 
       | They probably get the surplus stuff almost for free, from all
       | around the world. I think it's great, making something desirable
       | out of waste.
       | 
       | Having served, I think a lot of military equipment is really bad,
       | especially clothing. It's bought not by the users but by the
       | organization.
        
         | cblconfederate wrote:
         | They have a fun website buf you can find that stuff on ebay,
         | and usually in bulk
        
       | soheil wrote:
       | Commercial products are generally better made and more focused.
       | It's because the world of business is more logical and people are
       | not tempted buy garbage just because they like the actor in a TV
       | commercial. It's about the bottom line, if the product sucks in
       | any shape or form the business would not be a savvy one if it did
       | not buy a better product and would go out of business soon. Not
       | the case when you have disposable income and are not responsible
       | to your shareholders. You're also in the same club as shoppers as
       | Home Shopping Network channel. Products all of a sudden don't
       | need to actually be good, they just need to convince enough of
       | its targeted consumers that it is, be it because they're old and
       | confused and watching TV at 3am or because they saw an ad that
       | was pretty convincing.
        
       | elil17 wrote:
       | Restaurant supply stores are a great place to get kitchenware.
       | Some of it doesn't work in a home kitchen (for instance, you
       | probably don't want your smallest Tupperware to be a quart). Some
       | of it, though, is perfect. My favorite purchase has been a huge
       | cutting board with rubber grip material on one side and rulers
       | printed on the other. It's thick plastic so it's never warped
       | despite repeatedly putting it in the dishwasher.
       | 
       | If you're lucky enough to live near one that lets consumers buy
       | food, too, that's great. 20 pounds of very high quality pasta for
       | like $8 or $10.
        
         | yumraj wrote:
         | Costco _Business center_ is a good and accessible alternate if
         | you have one near to you.
        
       | karaterobot wrote:
       | Is that picture the 20-quart Hobart mixer, or just the 12 quart?
       | Both are good for making a few hundred cookies at a time, and
       | very convenient if you also have a commercial oven.
       | 
       | Now, that's the countertop model, so it only weights 189 pounds,
       | and it's a steal at $6000. Sounds expensive, but it'll last
       | forever, unlike my shitty Kitchenaid mixer that's only worked
       | flawlessly for 30 years, and that I can store in a cupboard and
       | put on the counter without a forklift.
       | 
       | My advice: save a few bucks by learning small appliance repair
       | and buying a banged up mixer from a defunct restaurant a couple
       | towns over! Bring a couple friends and some tie-down straps.
        
       | ListeningPie wrote:
       | The recommendation for a commercial panel which avoids built
       | smart TV functions is one I'm taking seriously. We have an Apple
       | TV connected and use nothing else. Does anyone have experience or
       | recommendations?
       | 
       | Here is a link to NEC's commercial displays
       | https://www.sharpnecdisplays.us/products/displays#2
        
         | croutonwagon wrote:
         | Yeah....BUT those panels are designed for, more or less, static
         | images in well lit rooms.
         | 
         | Things like contrast ratio, how well it does dark colors in a
         | dark room or fast intesity refreshing (like 60Hz "fast") may be
         | questionable. It probably also expects super consistent and
         | clean power...some houses dont have that.
         | 
         | Sure you could make it a giant Dakboard with a giant static
         | image and not really worry about burn in for years.
         | 
         | Ultimately. I went with a cheap panel from say costco and a
         | roku on a separate vlan (so my overkill is a network that can
         | do vlan segmentation). Ultimately the roku TV's can scan
         | themselves to death and report that they are on a network with
         | other roku TV's all they want. Or you could just get a cheap-o
         | smart TV and hook up the appleTV (cost came into play for me).
         | I do have some LG smart TV's, one died within 3 years
         | already...Meanwhile my Samsung 55" Plasma from 2008 had taking
         | a direct lightning strike that took out the others and keeps on
         | ticking. (and resulted in the TCL roku and LG tvs being
         | installed).
         | 
         | So all of that is to say. I just go cheap panel that i dont
         | mind replacing. And just keep them isolated entirely.
        
         | an_opabinia wrote:
         | I don't know. If you don't connect the TV to the Internet,
         | really, what is it going to do.
        
           | swader999 wrote:
           | Connect your media pc to it and fully control your tv
           | software.
        
           | smbv wrote:
           | Perhaps it'll hop onto someone else's WiFi.
           | 
           | https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/05/amazon-devices-
           | will-...
        
           | Sebb767 wrote:
           | A nag every 5 minutes to do so, lags and slow startup time
           | due to all the stuff running in the background and, to top it
           | off, horrible settings menus as the actual picture is not the
           | main focus.
        
             | crooked-v wrote:
             | My Vizio M55-E0 has a noticeably (much, much) slower UI if
             | it's not connected to the internet, though it's probably
             | just poor design rather than an intentional thing.
             | Definitely never buying another Vizio, though.
        
         | geofft wrote:
         | The commercial displays are also awfully expensive.
         | 
         | https://frame.work/blog/in-defense-of-dumb-tvs was posted here
         | recently (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26273169) and
         | concluded that Sceptre, an inexpensive brand sold at Wal-Mart,
         | was worth a shot.
        
           | curtis3389 wrote:
           | I bought a Sceptre based on a HN discussion a few months ago.
           | Happy with it so far. It's just a regular TV.
        
             | karaterobot wrote:
             | I bet we bought the exact same panel, since I bought mine
             | based on the same HN discussion. The Sceptre 65" something
             | something? Very happy with it so far.
        
         | c0nfused wrote:
         | I am planning to replace my existing tv from one of dell's
         | conference room line once it finally quits on me.
         | 
         | https://www.dell.com/en-us/work/shop/dell-55-4k-conference-r...
         | 
         | The down ide is that they are up 25% in cost over 2019 but
        
           | crooked-v wrote:
           | Overall cost trends for anything electronic are going to be
           | pretty weird this year given chip shortages.
        
         | easton wrote:
         | Find the hospitality version of whatever you want from CDW
         | (Samsung and LG do a lot of them, idk about Sony). They are
         | designed for hotels and hospitals, and have the same picture
         | quality but no smart stuff.
         | 
         | An example from Samsung:
         | https://www.cdw.com/product/samsung-678u-series-55-4k-uhd-le...
        
           | tomcam wrote:
           | Well that is a super helpful pro tip! You have just opened up
           | a new world for me. Thank you.
        
             | MonaroVXR wrote:
             | These are cheaper?
             | 
             | https://www.sceptre.com/TV/4K-UHD-TV-
             | category1category73.htm...
        
       | notatoad wrote:
       | I love to use professional-grade items where i can, but sometimes
       | "overkill" means a worse product. like the professional-grade fan
       | - it's not just designed for a high duty cycle, it's also
       | probably designed to be operated in an environment where people
       | regularly use hearing protection, so quiet operation is not a
       | consideration.
        
         | valec wrote:
         | Another example is weight. The average consumer Rogue or Titan
         | power rack or machine will outlive the one or two people using
         | it. It is completely sufficient even for light-commercial use
         | while still being light enough to move around with only a
         | couple people.
         | 
         | Commercial gym equipment, on the other hand is more expensive,
         | much heavier, and doesn't bring many advantages over a high
         | quality consumer product. If you're running a gym where
         | thousands of people use it every year the extra weight and cost
         | makes sense but for a single person it's just a pain.
        
         | Ekaros wrote:
         | Also there is question of scale. Like the mixer, the capacity
         | is just too big for regular use. It would be massive waste for
         | me to make much anything with it. As I don't think it scales to
         | small enough amounts.
        
         | yongjik wrote:
         | Hmm, there's a lesson hidden somewhere here about junior
         | developers itching to implement everything in multi-region
         | distributed services, because Google does it that way.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | dan-robertson wrote:
         | Dishwashers are another example. You could buy a commercial one
         | but it will come with no roll-out trays (you load up different
         | plastic racks for different things and you can load a rack
         | while the dishwasher is running) and it's designed for an
         | environment with lots of ventilation (you just open it when it
         | is done and let the steam get ventilated away) which people are
         | unlikely to have in their own kitchens.
         | 
         | Other items tend to be designed for people who can put more
         | work in regular cleaning and maintenance. You could buy a
         | commercial espresso machine and coffee grinder to make yourself
         | coffee every morning but the machine is designed to warm up at
         | the start of the day, pull a lot of shots, and get thoroughly
         | cleaned later. You will still need to warm it up and make sure
         | it is behaving well before your coffee and you'll still need to
         | properly clean it afterwards.
        
           | GuB-42 wrote:
           | A commercial dishwasher is like an entirely different
           | appliance. It is designed to be fast. It achieves this by
           | requiring rinsing, being hotter (and staying hot) and more
           | aggressive, and by not having a dry cycle (you just open the
           | door and let the steam out).
           | 
           | Time is important in cleaning, and home dishwashers take
           | advantage of that by running for several hours at low power,
           | it is not like you are going to need these plates immediately
           | after you have finished eating.
           | 
           | About commercial espresso machines, another thing to consider
           | is that these machines usually require plumbing. There are
           | high end home espresso machines that are also built like
           | tanks and will serve you better unless you are planning to
           | pull hundreds of shots a day. Commercial machines have an
           | advantage when it comes to temperature stability because they
           | are so big and heavy but smaller machines are still able to
           | do an impressive job.
        
           | Arch-TK wrote:
           | You need to spend at least PS600 to get a decent home
           | espresso set up but it will get you something pretty close to
           | good cafe grade coffee.
           | 
           | The reason those big PS3000+ machines are impractical for the
           | home is not the cleaning or even the warm-up time (as both of
           | those factors are the same for any espresso machine even the
           | home ones) but rather with the fact that the bar grade
           | espresso machines expect to be plumbed into a reverse osmosis
           | filter and take up a shitload of space.
           | 
           | Commercial machines may need a little bit more time to warm
           | up but I still let my gaggia warm up for around 15 minutes
           | before I use it otherwise I find consistency falls and I just
           | get frustration.
           | 
           | Regarding cleaning, the process is the same for home machines
           | and just needs to be performed less often (I do this around
           | once every week depending on use. I pour 1-4 shots a day
           | every day). There are powdered detergents which are used to
           | backflush the group head and solenoid valve to clear out
           | coffee oils, this process takes about 5 minutes to perform
           | and doesn't require much manual effort except for clearing
           | out the drip tray and wiping things down a bit.
           | 
           | When it comes to cleaning the boiler, this isn't done by
           | disassembling the machine or anything crazy like that. An
           | acidic solution of usually some combination of primarily
           | citric acid and/or potassium bitartrate is added to the water
           | reservoir, the boiler is then flushed to get the solution in
           | the boiler, I will then usually leave it in for 15 minutes
           | with the boiler turned off to prevent water from boiling (to
           | make sure all areas of the boiler are in contact with water
           | at all times). Then this gets flushed with clean filtered
           | water to get rid of the acid.
           | 
           | This process takes longer but also doesn't require much work.
           | 
           | Anything under PS600 will give you mediocre espresso (due to
           | grind inconsistency and temperature stability problems) or
           | fauxpresso (any pod machine or bean to cup machine basically
           | maxes fauxpresso, there are very expensive commercial grade
           | true-espresso bean to cup machines but these, even when
           | dialled in correctly, still usually make a mediocre
           | espresso).
           | 
           | Any machine (even the fauxpresso ones) will likely require
           | almost as much cleaning effort. Any manufacturer which claims
           | otherwise (especially for bean-to-cup machines) is just
           | trying to reduce the lifetime of your machine so it fails out
           | of warranty and you buy another one.
        
             | secabeen wrote:
             | You can extend the lifetime of your espresso machine quite
             | a lot by using calibrated water.
        
             | ValentineC wrote:
             | > _You need to spend at least PS600 to get a decent home
             | espresso set up but it will get you something pretty close
             | to good cafe grade coffee._
             | 
             | There are also the lever espresso makers like the Flair or
             | Cafelat Robot, which are cheaper, more robust (no fancy
             | heating elements), but also a bit more troublesome.
        
             | lostlogin wrote:
             | I am a big fan of my first espresso machine - the Rancilio
             | Silvia. It's got many commercial components in a small form
             | factor. It's easily repairable too, but probably doesn't
             | need it.
             | 
             | Mine did approximately 15,000 coffees in the 20 years of
             | use it had, and had one service for about $US75. It's still
             | around as an emergency backup.
             | 
             | It's shown in the wiki.
             | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rancilio
        
             | SyzygistSix wrote:
             | A commercial bean grinder is amazing but expensive.
        
           | lostlogin wrote:
           | > You could buy a commercial espresso machine and coffee
           | grinder to make yourself coffee every morning but the machine
           | is designed to warm up at the start of the day, pull a lot of
           | shots, and get thoroughly cleaned later.
           | 
           | It is. But with home use you don't pull 300+ shots, it can be
           | cleaned less. I have a 20 something year old Cimbali and it's
           | just great. It's on a smart plug to turn on early and warm
           | up.
           | 
           | It had a load of leaks and I decided to upgrade, but first
           | talked to the local agent. He gave 4 washers and said try
           | them.
           | 
           | 20 mins later it's completely fixed at a cost of $0. That's
           | the only repair it's had in the years I have owned it. I
           | thoroughly clean it every few weeks.
        
           | bayindirh wrote:
           | > Dishwashers are another example.
           | 
           | Commercial dishwashers, esp. the fast cycle ones beat the
           | living light of any mugs/plates/etc. unless they're plain
           | white.
           | 
           | They use way more pressure and heat, and resulting clean is
           | much more aggressive, shortening life of everything inside
           | them. Only plain glass and plain porcelain came out
           | relatively unaffected. All decorations doesn't stand a
           | chance.
           | 
           | This is why some mugs denote "Safe for _normal_ dishwasher
           | use ".
        
             | andai wrote:
             | I stayed at an art school that was housed in an old
             | military barracks. They had a massive steel dishwasher that
             | used hot water and pressurized air to just blast the dirt
             | off. It was extremely loud, and only needed about 10
             | seconds.
             | 
             | I want one.
        
             | sitharus wrote:
             | I wondered why dinnerware said "for domestic use only", but
             | I now have an ex-commercial set and it's an entirely
             | different kind of china to domestic.
        
           | tialaramex wrote:
           | _Maintenance_ is huge.
           | 
           | A lot of products even in the supposedly "disposable"
           | everyday category people buy for lower prices have
           | maintenance instructions that would significantly increase
           | their lifespan if actually followed. Misuse resistance means
           | consumer products generally still work if you skip
           | maintenance the manufacturer told you was necessary (which
           | industrial products might not), but it may shorten the
           | product's lifespan, increase operating costs or reduce
           | performance.
           | 
           | My friend owns a dishwasher. Recently little specks of dirt
           | were left on plates sometimes after the wash completed. Guess
           | what, there's no _salt_ in the softener re-charge. So that
           | dishwasher is soldiering on with hard water instead of soft,
           | and it no longer gets things clean. Fill the salt back up,
           | and sure enough the machine 's performance quickly improves.
           | I'm sure lots of people are shouting "That's not
           | maintenance". Well, it probably depends how you look at the
           | problem. From his point of view he purchased "all in one"
           | dishwasher tablets which said he didn't need salt. If he'd
           | examined them _very carefully_ they admit that actually you
           | might still need to add salt periodically, but that wouldn 't
           | be very "all in one" so it's not emphasised.
        
             | carlmr wrote:
             | TIL I should read the all in one tab packaging and probably
             | buy salt.
        
               | imgabe wrote:
               | TIL dishwashers have a compartment you're supposed to add
               | salt to? Is this the rinse-aid thing?
        
               | the-smug-one wrote:
               | Salt helps against hard water, AFAIK.
        
               | imgabe wrote:
               | Yeah, I grew up in a house with well water and we had a
               | water softener for the whole house. I've just never seen
               | a place to add salt in a dishwasher, unless it's the
               | rinse aid.
        
               | MonaroVXR wrote:
               | Watch this video: Detergent packs are kinda wishy-washy
               | (Dishwashers Explained)
               | 
               | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rBO8neWw04
        
             | MonaroVXR wrote:
             | Did you also watch: Detergent packs are kinda wishy-washy
             | (Dishwashers Explained)
             | 
             | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rBO8neWw04
        
               | ornornor wrote:
               | That video (and channel) are truly great.
        
           | MonaroVXR wrote:
           | This is the same for laptops, but most of the people (I
           | assume?) buy Macbooks for programming which is... kinda
           | weird, since it's difficult to repair. Than business laptops
           | like the Z-book, ThinkPad or insert Dell business laptop eg;
           | Latitude 7000 series (Dell XPS isn't a business laptop from
           | my perspective.)
        
             | yojo wrote:
             | Macs are not generally repairable, but some models are
             | incredibly reliable.
             | 
             | I've been using a 2012 MBPr that still works great/is
             | pristine, other than losing some rubber feet.
             | 
             | Having a user friendly OS with *nix-ish tooling in a high
             | build quality package is (debatably) only available from
             | Apple. I will happily upgrade to an M1 MBP once the next
             | gen is released.
        
               | kiba wrote:
               | 2012 model MBP is the most repairable macbook I owned.
        
             | drstewart wrote:
             | > kinda weird, since it's difficult to repair.
             | 
             | Why would I care? If it breaks, I tell my company to pay
             | the repair bill or buy me a new one.
        
               | ornornor wrote:
               | Because it's wasteful and pollutes.
        
               | franga2000 wrote:
               | Because when it breaks, your company won't want to use
               | 3rd party repair, so they will send it straight to Apple.
               | That means that it will take at least a month to get back
               | and all your data getting erased is pretty much a
               | guarantee, even if all that was broken was one resistor
               | in the power supply circuit.
               | 
               | Even if they buy a new one, how long will it take you to
               | set it up from scratch?
               | 
               | Meanwhile, any other vendor will have competent
               | technicians available almost anywhere (with a support
               | package maybe even 24/7/365), who will be able to at
               | worst transplant your storage media into a working
               | machine while they refurb your old one. The downtime can
               | be shorter than a big Windows update.
        
               | lostlogin wrote:
               | Migrating to a new machine is a PITA that inflicts misery
               | for quite a long time.
               | 
               | Maybe I'm doing it wrong?
        
               | bfung wrote:
               | Yes - have a backup of your dev machine to restore from.
               | Apple's TimeMachine is a godsend. I've never had a
               | windows backup program work w/o a lot of fuss.
               | 
               | An extra $150 external backup HDD is worth any crash at
               | work, get your company to get it for every dev.
        
               | MonaroVXR wrote:
               | Activia True image can do the job on Windows. Making a
               | whole image on everything in your computer.
        
               | ipqk wrote:
               | Migration Assistant on a Mac has pretty painless for me
               | for years. If you attach a thunderbolt cable between the
               | two computers, it can migrate a 2TB SSD in usually under
               | a couple hours.
        
               | hutrdvnj wrote:
               | Because it's annoying and will interrupt your work much
               | longer, especially if it's something that could have been
               | easily fixed in e.g. a Thinkpad. Even more so, if it's
               | your own device.
        
               | jasonwatkinspdx wrote:
               | I have to disagree. One of the reasons I've used Macbooks
               | for work for ages now is if something goes wrong, I can
               | just pop over to the apple store and have a replacement
               | within about 30 minutes. Don't even have to restore, can
               | just target boot my backup and be back working
               | immediately, and can save the restore until the evening.
               | I've had one instance where this saved me 5 figures
               | easily (wasn't even the macbook's fault, I fell on my
               | bike going over rail road tracks).
               | 
               | Yeah, you pay a premium in terms of price for that, but
               | it's a no brainer imo.
               | 
               | That said, I have a lot of Dell hardware I like too. I
               | still use two 2407wfp wide gamut monitors on my gaming PC
               | and don't see any reason to change them until there's a
               | 4k monitor I really want. They're bulletproof, and I even
               | bought them used off Dell's outlet site.
        
               | MonaroVXR wrote:
               | That's you, but a lot of people don't live next to the
               | Apple store and with business laptops, people come to
               | you, to replace the device , repair or anything else.
        
             | renewiltord wrote:
             | Repairability is a red herring. As a professional, I care
             | about "time in service" and "maintenance cost".
             | 
             | A completely unrepairable tool that is in service a lot
             | longer for way less maintenance? I take that any day of the
             | week.
             | 
             | And here's the thing, I don't really care that _you_ can
             | repair your Dell. I wouldn't be able to do so without
             | putting in a lot of time and it would be a little
             | stressful. Reducing that time requires a significant
             | investment.
        
               | hutrdvnj wrote:
               | I find it less stressful when I know that I could easily
               | swap out a broken RAM module and continue to work, than
               | to wait for the repair of my device.
        
               | K7PJP wrote:
               | How does RAM break? How often does it fail?
        
               | hutrdvnj wrote:
               | RAM is just an example. In my Thinkpad (T430) I'm able to
               | swap out the CPU, mainboard, keyboard or screen if
               | necessary, like in an ordinary PC. The question is, how
               | likely is it that some component will break. From my
               | experience it's not very unlikely over a lifespan of a
               | few years. I mean sure you can have luck with all your
               | computers and you never have any hardware failures, but I
               | wouldn't count on that.
        
             | ValentineC wrote:
             | > _This is the same for laptops, but most of the people (I
             | assume?) buy Macbooks for programming which is... kinda
             | weird, since it 's difficult to repair._
             | 
             | Personally, I don't think I've found anything that beats
             | Apple's laptop trackpads, and I think that _my_ UX matters
             | more than repairability.
             | 
             | Then again, I'm still using a 2013 MacBook Pro with an
             | upgraded NVMe SSD.
        
               | franga2000 wrote:
               | Idk, not being able to get it fixed without data loss in
               | the case of even a minor hw failure seems like pretty bad
               | UX to me...
        
             | kofejnik wrote:
             | > it's difficult to repair.
             | 
             | we don't care really, they are still great. Besides, they
             | don't break much (typing this on mbp 2015 while waiting for
             | m1 16" to happen)
        
             | ta988 wrote:
             | I agree, the Z-book are really amazing, but HP still has a
             | bad reputation so it is hard to make people realize how far
             | they went with this serie (from the old modela to the
             | recent ones).
        
             | znpy wrote:
             | > Latitude 7000 series (Dell XPS isn't a business laptop
             | from my perspective.)
             | 
             | I'm writing from a Dell Latitude 7390.
             | 
             | If this had the trackpoint, ThinkPads would be dead to me.
             | 
             | It's 99% perfect. So much so that I'm thinking of gettin an
             | exact replica as a personal laptop.
        
             | jlkuester7 wrote:
             | I agree that the Dell XPS line does not reaaly fit the
             | "business" look-and-feel like a Latitude or Thinkpad. But
             | after several years of doing heavy sofware dev on one, it
             | is has earned my respect. It is nice to have a machine with
             | a non-brick-like form that still does not compromise in
             | performance (and you can bring to a businesses meeting and
             | not look too RBG....). IMHO the XPS line is designed to
             | compete with MBPs as high-end work-capable machines and it
             | does a darn good job of it...
        
               | drewzero1 wrote:
               | I had an XPS M1330 about 10 years ago, and if I could
               | figure out the apparent thermal issue I might still use
               | it sometimes. At the time I found it incredibly portable
               | (compared to my iBook and ThinkPad) without being slow,
               | and the design was striking yet professional. Dell still
               | isn't my favorite brand, but they've come a long way from
               | the crappy Dimensions I had in the early 2000s.
        
               | verst wrote:
               | Except my $3500 XPS 9500 (64GB RAM 2TB, 8 core CPU,
               | Nvidia 1650Ti, 4K Touch Display) that thermal throttles
               | so much that a 3 years older MBP gives much much better
               | performance and I continued using that machine for work.
               | Fortunately by switching teams at work I was then able to
               | get a new Mac and I'm thrilled with my M1!
               | 
               | I spoke with a very nice person from Dell via Twitter who
               | out of personal interest went above and beyond to help me
               | calibrate that XPS, but no luck. Booting Windows is
               | enough for fans to reach max speeds and thermal
               | throttling to begin.
        
               | robocat wrote:
               | My friend had a Toshiba Satellite that was running the
               | fans at 100% all the time. The fins on the radiator we're
               | blocked with dust. Easy to fix - unscrew the bottom plate
               | and unscrew the fan and make the airflow path clean
               | again. Low risk fix as they were about to throw it out it
               | was so annoying. Sometimes it is unobvious how to remove
               | the bottom plate - usually there will be a video on
               | YouTube for the model.
               | 
               | Yeah, the Dell is not that problem, but just saying for
               | others that other brand/model laptops with the same
               | symptom might be easy to fix.
        
               | jlkuester7 wrote:
               | Yeah, I will concede that one to you. I have heard that
               | the thermal paste on some of those XPS models was
               | complete trash. Know some folks that had some luck re-
               | applying new paste, but that does not really absolve
               | Dell....
        
           | user3939382 wrote:
           | Tangentially related: if you do want an amazing electric
           | coffee grinder, feel free to piggy back on my countless hours
           | of research and go with this: Baratza Virtuoso+
           | 
           | It is excellent.
        
             | faeyanpiraat wrote:
             | I'm suspicious.
        
             | birdyrooster wrote:
             | How much static electricity does it generate? That is my
             | biggest complaint on burr grinders, they act like Van de
             | Graaff generators and then the grounds get stuck all over
             | the machine.
        
               | tailspin2019 wrote:
               | In my two days of usage so far.... not much. I read about
               | other grinders having issues with grounds being stuck in
               | the container but this one doesn't appear to have that
               | problem.
               | 
               | I _think_ I read that the + model has a redesigned ground
               | container to tackle the static issue - had seen some
               | mention that static was more of an issue with the older
               | "non +" model
        
               | cjonas wrote:
               | Add a miniscule amount of water to your beans before
               | grinding
        
               | Arch-TK wrote:
               | This is the way. The best way is to run the handle of a
               | teaspoon under the tap and stir it through the grinds
               | before grinding.
               | 
               | It doesn't matter if "burr grinders suffer from static
               | build up" when they're categorically far better than
               | anything else when it comes to grinding.
        
               | Wistar wrote:
               | OMG. I have battled the grinder static thing for...
               | years, decades, and did not know this. _Thank you_
        
               | NegativeLatency wrote:
               | Depends a lot on the roast for me. Darker ones seem to
               | lace less flaky floaty bits after grinding
        
             | yojo wrote:
             | I have a Vario, that has struggled with a fine espresso
             | grind. The burrs are ceramic but the carriage is plastic
             | and it affects the tolerance. I gave up
             | repairing/troubleshooting it and bought a beat to hell
             | SuperJolly off EBay for $170.
             | 
             | Dropped in a new set of burrs and have an unstoppable
             | overkill grinder with a huge motor and all metal parts
        
               | Arch-TK wrote:
               | If you want espresso you probably want steel burrs
               | mounted in steel with good bearings.
               | 
               | If you are on a budget and don't want to spend PS500
               | ($700 + tax and shipping) on a niche then you can usually
               | find used smaller commercial machines. Research the burrs
               | they use and see if you can find new burrs, this way you
               | can spend probably somewhere around $200 on what would
               | function like a brand new high quality burr grinder.
        
               | yojo wrote:
               | Yes, that's what I did. The Super Jolly I bought is a
               | commercial machine (by Mazzer) and I put new OEM steel
               | burrs in it.
        
             | lostlogin wrote:
             | Thanks.
             | 
             | I'll add a pointer towards Mazzer grinders too.
             | 
             | The key is to buy them when they are described as broken,
             | then they are very cheap. As far as I can tell they are
             | almost never broken as such. Either something inside needs
             | plugging back in, or the on/off switch needs replacing
             | (it's got spades on it, so just plug a new one in).
             | 
             | They are nearly entirely metal, with the few plastic
             | components readily available.
             | 
             | The are quite easy to sand and repaint too, so you can
             | match them to other bits of equipment or decor. The correct
             | colour choice is a 1970s orange.
        
             | divbzero wrote:
             | In the spirit of OP, the main navbar on Baratza's website
             | links to an article titled:
             | 
             |  _STOP! Don't Dump It - Fix It!_
             | 
             | https://baratza.com/stop-dont-dump-it-fix-it/
        
               | CamperBob2 wrote:
               | Impressive. Next time my Breville strips its gears, I'll
               | try to remember to give these guys a try. It probably
               | won't be long.
        
             | secabeen wrote:
             | And if you want an overkill coffee grinder, get a Kafatek
             | Monolith, or a Weber Workshops model.
        
             | rolleiflex wrote:
             | This is oversimplifying it a little.
             | 
             | Yes Baratzas are great grinders but they are not one-size-
             | fits-all depending on what kind of coffee you make. For
             | example Baratza Encore is everyone's darling with good
             | reason (I have one and I use it for espresso every day!)
             | but it's not a great espresso grinder because fundamentally
             | speaking its tiny motor just doesn't have enough torque to
             | drive big burrs, so it has small ones. Which means when you
             | grind at espresso sizes it's going to lose its tight spread
             | and it'll output some grains that are too big for espresso,
             | some are too small and some are just right. Since espresso
             | is very dense coffee, this is something that is very
             | clearly tastable even to a skeptical non-expert like me.
             | 
             | This spread of grain sizes is something to some degree any
             | grinder does, but grinders designed for espresso have
             | tighter spreads, so they provide much more of the size you
             | want (so your water can actually pass through) and much
             | less of what you don't want.
             | 
             | Incidentally this is something I like about specialty
             | coffee industry compared to other connoisseur stuff like
             | wine. Wine experts walk around talking about the earthy
             | aromas, if some coffee 'expert' tries to do the same,
             | someone in the audience busts out a refractometer and says
             | 'aight, let's see'.
             | 
             | It's still a money pit, but it's at least on a much more
             | scientifically solid ground.
        
             | na85 wrote:
             | Concur. Nice to see my own conclusions validated, I really
             | like mine.
        
             | tailspin2019 wrote:
             | Just bought one two days ago. Reviews were good, and I'm
             | not disappointed.
             | 
             | (Paired with a Moccamaster)
        
               | Wistar wrote:
               | Can I ask: What grind do you use for your Moccamaster?
        
             | [deleted]
        
             | BossingAround wrote:
             | What's the main difference between Virtuoso+ and Encore?
             | From just a quick glance, Virtuoso+ has a number of
             | features that aren't very useful (like a timer, or
             | LEDs/display) while having seemingly identical burr system?
        
               | ValentineC wrote:
               | I believe the Virtuoso also comes with a better M2 burr
               | set. The Encore can be upgraded to it.
        
               | NegativeLatency wrote:
               | I have one of these, the LED is dumb but the digital
               | timer is really nice for repeatability in how much you
               | grind.
               | 
               | Wasn't willing to pay even more for one with a scale
        
               | tokamak-teapot wrote:
               | I have a Macap M5D. This has a timer with three presets.
               | It's perfect and while expensive, even second hand, I
               | wouldn't say it's overkill for home use. The timer means
               | I don't get the grind wrong. I'm not sure why you
               | wouldn't want one. I suppose I'm quite good at
               | 'eyeballing' the quantity now, but the timer means
               | consistency.
        
             | ValentineC wrote:
             | On the other hand: if you drink 1-2 cups of coffee a day,
             | and don't mind putting in some elbow grease -- a manual
             | grinder like a Comandante or Kinu often produces much
             | better grinds for the same price, since money can be
             | allocated towards a better burr set instead of a motor.
             | 
             | I've had a few friends whose only experience with a manual
             | grinder was a Hario Skerton or its clones, and get turned
             | off manual grinding because of how bad the experience is.
             | The pricier hand grinders have much better UX.
        
               | throwawayboise wrote:
               | Absolutely. Much prefer a small hand-operated device that
               | I can easily store in a cupboard to a big heavy device
               | with a cord that needs to be near an outlet and takes up
               | counter space all the time.
               | 
               | I have come to really, really resist buying plug-in
               | kitchen gadgets. I have a few, such as a toaster and a
               | kettle, that I actually use. For anything else I've found
               | that they just end up living in the back of a base
               | cabinet and I forget that I have them.
        
               | ip26 wrote:
               | I was ready to go all-in on manual grinders. But their
               | supply chain completely evaporated in the pandemic, and I
               | could not find one I wanted _anywhere_. For months. That
               | ended that.
        
             | tmountain wrote:
             | I bought an encore after much research myself and had to
             | return it after just a few weeks. It started grinding my
             | beans to an ultra fine espresso type consistency no matter
             | what setting I used. After much troubleshooting, they sent
             | me a new unit (in transit now), but not a great experience
             | from the device perspective (customer service was great).
        
           | nextos wrote:
           | You are right, but there are some exceptions. For example, I
           | own a commercial Miele dishwasher and it's exactly like their
           | consumer version but even more robust and simple.
           | Furthermore, it's equipped with gigantic blades to destroy
           | food leftovers.
           | 
           | Other examples of overkill objects I like are some commercial
           | vacuums for clean room environments with spectacularly good
           | filtration and seals, therefore no itching if you are
           | allergic to dust (e.g. some Nilfisk made in Denmark). Or
           | industrial fanless PCs which are sealed and have fantastic
           | copper coolers (e.g. Compulab, Tranquil and many others).
        
         | gnarbarian wrote:
         | I purchased a 30-in steel barrel fan from home Depot 3 years
         | ago and I maintain it is the best fan I've ever owned. I put it
         | in a different part of my house entirely pointing out a window
         | and I open a window in my bedroom and it sucks that air right
         | in.
         | 
         | It's not even That loud though
        
         | tootie wrote:
         | I used to love browsing McMaster-Carr but pretty quickly
         | realized there is nothing worth buying as a consumer. Anything
         | remotely practical for personal use is cheaper on Amazon.
        
           | luma wrote:
           | McM pricing heavily depends on how much business you do with
           | them, if you're a commercial buyer you'll see much steeper
           | discounting applied.
        
           | s5300 wrote:
           | McMaster is _pretty_ good as a consumer for fastener
           | hardware, a good assortment of various geometries of various
           | metals, and mixing supplies in sense of both availability,
           | exotics (such as aluminum flake 12.9 screws), and _absolute_
           | zero bullshit with regards to knowing what you 're actually
           | getting, the fact it's _always_ there, and that it 's same
           | day-next morning delivery in most parts of the US.
           | 
           | I've had my fair share of actual 12.9 steel screws from
           | Amazon that are actually 12.9 steel, and my fair share of
           | 12.9 steel screws that were actually made of cheese.
           | 
           | Plus... this is something maybe only a CAD user can
           | understand - McMaster Carr provides an outright sex bible of
           | importable 3D CAD objects.
           | 
           | Like, I really thought my CAD instructor in University was
           | joking when they said McMaster would be your Bible if you're
           | ever designing in CAD for hobby/industry. Then I got a job,
           | and holy shit were they right. So I like to think whenever I
           | pay slightly more on McMaster for what I could get on Amazon
           | or eBay, I'm supporting the bible for all of the goodness
           | it's given me for my hobby designing and in making actual
           | work less stressful as well.
        
             | [deleted]
        
             | akiselev wrote:
             | _> Plus... this is something maybe only a CAD user can
             | understand - McMaster Carr provides an outright sex bible
             | of importable 3D CAD objects._
             | 
             | Luckily many suppliers are doing this. Misumi for example
             | has plugins for CAD packages like Solidworks that even
             | generate CAD parts for parts with custom configurations
             | (like aluminum extrusion cut to size) so going from
             | assembly to BOM to purchase order is a few clicks.
        
           | Grakel wrote:
           | Great industrial shelving for the garage, that hard-to-find
           | bolt with the specific threads, or rock salt for icy
           | driveways. The second time you call them they greet you by
           | name. You can say a part number, a quantity, thanks, and hang
           | up, and you're getting a box of awesome really soon.
           | McMaster-Carr is an amazing company for people who do things.
        
         | macNchz wrote:
         | You're totally correct about the noise, however I actually use
         | a commercial all-metal box fan to ventilate my apartment and
         | it's really awesome.
         | 
         | I only run it at night, and I put it in a window in another
         | room, facing out with some material around it to make a snug
         | fit. The result is a steady breeze coming in the bedroom
         | windows at night and a muted hum from the other room. It makes
         | regular plastic box fans look like a joke. It easily moves 10x
         | the air on low as a plastic one on high.
         | 
         | This approach greatly reduces the number of nights we need to
         | use the AC in early summer/early fall in NYC, when it's warm
         | but not so humid as in July and August. I've tried the same
         | thing with a plastic fan and it's way less effective...we can
         | come home to a hot stuffy apartment on a Sunday night after a
         | weekend away and have it totally comfortable inside in a matter
         | of minutes.
        
           | phamilton wrote:
           | I've got that in our attic with a nice little light switch in
           | our bedroom to turn it on. Crack open the window, turn on the
           | attic fan and the whole house cools down nicely.
           | 
           | The only problem is that I forget to turn it off in the
           | morning. Out if sight out of mind. Switching it to a timer is
           | on my list.
        
             | macNchz wrote:
             | Yeah I was inspired by an amazingly effective attic fan in
             | an airbnb I stayed in a few years ago...definitely will be
             | installing one in any future attics I own.
        
             | lostlogin wrote:
             | Smart plugs loaded into home assistant are good for this.
             | 
             | Then you can turn the fan off after a period of time, at a
             | specific time, at a certain temp etc.
             | 
             | It risks over complicating things though.
        
           | notatoad wrote:
           | yeah, i don't mean to say that no commercial-grade products
           | are suitable for home use, just that you need to be a lot
           | more careful if you're buying products for a use they aren't
           | intended for. if you buy a product designed for home use, you
           | can be reasonably sure that it will work in a home setting if
           | you buy a commercial-grade product, you just need to pay
           | close attention to what trade-offs have been made that might
           | be a poor fit for home usage.
           | 
           | it's almost always a good idea to buy the professional-grade
           | items you've used at work and know are awesome, it's almost
           | never a good idea to buy a professional-grade item sight-
           | unseen unless you know there's a local used market for it.
        
             | Wistar wrote:
             | I have been, over-time, retro-fitting my home with
             | pro/commercial-grade infrastructure items such as: quarter-
             | turn marine-grade ball valves for the water-main; toilets,
             | clothes washer, fridge and dishwasher; recessed sillcock
             | valves; outdoor hose reels and hoses; sprinklers (this is a
             | biggie as so many sprinklers are one-season junk); heavy-
             | duty light switches; ceiling fans (the wonderful Big-Ass
             | fans stuff); locks and latches, fencing hardware; outdoor
             | lighting, and so on. Stuff that is fairly invisible but
             | which offer high utility and, especially, durability and
             | trust without being inconvenient or weird.
             | 
             | At one point, years ago, my brother and I considered
             | creating a web site that explored these kinds of high-
             | integrity options, and acted as a directory and maybe a
             | review site as well. A site that evangelizes high-quality,
             | well-engineered items that are easily integrated into a
             | home and provide much greater longevity without costing a
             | fortune. "Overkill" is probably too strong a term for the
             | idea.
        
               | ianmcgowan wrote:
               | Sounds kind of like what thewirecutter.com used to be, or
               | a higher end consumer reports?
               | 
               | Nowadays youtube channels like Project Farm have kind of
               | replaced that niche, I could see a channel dedicated to
               | hands-on reviews, funded by affiliate links. I'd watch
               | long videos on several of the topics you mention above...
        
               | tomcam wrote:
               | I would pay for that site. Please feel free to harvest my
               | email address in my profile.
        
               | na85 wrote:
               | I'd be interested in a site like that, as I have a
               | similar appreciation for high-quality stuff that's built
               | to last. What kind of dishwasher/fridge/laundry
               | appliances did you end up getting?
        
               | ornornor wrote:
               | For laundry, these are amazing:
               | https://www.vzug.com/ch/en/product/ch-Catalog/287600
               | 
               | Impossible to break, engineered to was several loads
               | every day, etc. But they're not cheap.
        
               | Wistar wrote:
               | I wasn't focused on the appliances themselves but,
               | rather, the water valves, and hoses, used to supply the
               | water. The small but really important stuff.
               | 
               | Crummy valves break. Most builders use the cheapest crap
               | they can get. They save a couple thousand dollars
               | building a house but replacing the $2 crap can sometimes
               | cost a fortune. One of the worst offenses I have had to
               | deal with is the use of C-PVC pipe which is brittle and
               | will eventually crack or burst.
               | 
               | Ideally, the site I thought about would be to educate
               | folks about the kinds of things, components, they should
               | specify when building or remodeling.
        
               | xen2xen1 wrote:
               | I'd love to hear more specifics. Do you have them
               | anywhere?
        
               | Wistar wrote:
               | No specifics. It was just a thought we had when my
               | brother was remodeling his house. The idea went nowhere.
        
               | ElFitz wrote:
               | Would definitely be interested
        
               | spockz wrote:
               | Awesome idea! How do you distinguish professional vs
               | overpriced normal stuff?
               | 
               | For example, Festool, Makita, and DeWalt offer awesome
               | products but are very pricy. All the tools from the DIY
               | shops are rubbish. Things from Bosch are slightly better.
               | But these are all expensive. Meanwhile, the tools from
               | Lidl around EUR30-50 price point are quite cool.
        
               | [deleted]
        
         | tschwimmer wrote:
         | Agreed 1000x. There is rarely a single best in all categories
         | good for something. Instead, you have to pay attention to what
         | you're optimizing for. The industrial/commercial cookware he
         | lists is definitely durable but also it's huge, may consume a
         | ton of energy and will not match the decor of the rest of your
         | kitchen.
        
           | 1996 wrote:
           | > The industrial/commercial cookware he lists is definitely
           | durable
           | 
           | No, it is plain wrong. He recommends borosilicate beakers for
           | beer. I think he never worked in a lab: borosilicate beakers
           | break. Their thermal expansion tolerance is a non feature for
           | cold beer: when did one of your beer mug broke because you
           | served yourself boiling beer?
           | 
           | > Does your glassware meet ASTM Specification E960, Type II
           | requirements? Is it manufactured from 33 expansion, low
           | extractable borosilicate glass conforming to USP Type I and
           | ASTM E438, Type I, Class A requirements? I didn't think so.
           | 
           | I call that hacker syndrome, when the typical hacker thinks a
           | long line of impressive specs and numbers matter, because he
           | has no idea of the customer requirements.
           | 
           | > Used to contain a life raft. Now, my groceries.
           | 
           | How easy it is to clean when there is a spill? How easy it is
           | to replace? I have carried BRICKS inside the nylon woven bags
           | some supermarket sell for $1.99. Rinced with water, ready in
           | 5 minutes.
           | 
           | > For less than $100, I can buy a short USMC Short KA-BAR or
           | a real M9 from Ontario for $150. This is the real thing, used
           | by the US military.
           | 
           | Show off!!
           | 
           | If you want something to bring in a fight, get a Mark 1
           | trench knife: has brass knuckles for punching (and limit the
           | risk of dropping your knife), a long thin blade for more
           | lethality (easier puncture wound regardless of angle than
           | with a wider blade). And in the kitchen it is ideal to break
           | walnuts :)
           | 
           | Of course it does not look "nice" - like carrying bricks in a
           | nylon supermarket bag. It is about knowing the needs you
           | optimize for.
        
             | Grustaf wrote:
             | I think you're missing the point. Nobody cares what ASTM
             | Specification E960 is, it just sounds cool. Some people
             | like industrial/military stuff for its own sake.
        
             | whatshisface wrote:
             | The beaker example is the worst one, because the shape of
             | the beaker is meant for controlled pouring out one point
             | and no spills anywhere else around the perimeter. A
             | drinking glass is designed for sipping which is completely
             | different. If you tried drinking out of a beaker the
             | flanged opening would tend to make the beverage pour down
             | either side of your mouth.
        
               | throwawayboise wrote:
               | It's also sort of a bad idea to normalize drinking out of
               | laboratory glassware. Granted your home is different from
               | a real lab, but lab workers have died drinking something
               | they thought was water.
               | 
               | In my dad's lab in the 1970s, they used to make coffee in
               | a large Erlenmeyer flask and filter it under vaccuum with
               | a Buchner funnel. The safety director eventually banned
               | it and made them buy a Mr. Coffee.
        
           | hirsin wrote:
           | Yup. First thought on the shopping bag was "how heavy is that
           | empty?". Designers were not worried about over burdening
           | whatever carried it, necessarily.
           | 
           | That mixer likely won't handle a small load (as in, a single
           | family sized loaf).
           | 
           | Spot on though about some of the stuff. That knife is nice,
           | although being edged on both sides is a liability.
        
             | sp332 wrote:
             | The mixer paddle goes all the way to the bottom of the
             | bowl, and so does the whisk attachment.
             | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TYBxEyzqUY0
        
         | villasv wrote:
         | I agree. "Worse" considering the scenarios where your needs are
         | not exactly the ones that guided project development.
         | 
         | A simple example would be gloves. What would be the pro version
         | of a glove? The ones used in steel mills? If you want a glove
         | for riding a bike, you're better of with regular biker gloves.
         | If it's a glove for winter, maybe skier gloves and so on.
        
           | Grustaf wrote:
           | In the 90's wearing road construction worker gloves while
           | skateboarding was the cool thing in Sweden, works pretty
           | well. And now I use insulated carpenter gloves while
           | bicycling in the mild Danish winters.
        
           | kube-system wrote:
           | Work/utility gloves are a good example where the commercial-
           | grade options are awesome compared to what is at Home Depot.
           | 
           | For example, Ansell HyFlex gloves are standard issue in
           | Amazon warehouses and they're awesome for chores around the
           | house too. They fit really well (and come in more sizes),
           | they're durable, and they are comfortable to wear for
           | extended periods of time.
        
             | criddell wrote:
             | https://www.homedepot.com/p/Ansell-Glove-
             | HyFlex-11-542-Light...
        
               | CamperBob2 wrote:
               | Interesting, had no idea that work gloves not designed
               | for use by NASA could cost almost $300/pair. What kind of
               | work are these used for? Safecracking?
        
               | sparselogic wrote:
               | That's for 12 pairs.
        
               | CamperBob2 wrote:
               | I see what you mean now -- they certainly don't make that
               | obvious.
        
           | rjsw wrote:
           | Winter "pro" gloves are not ski gloves, even if they are used
           | for skiing. In the French Alps, wearing gloves [1] that
           | identify you as not a tourist is quite common.
           | 
           | [1] https://www.deltaplus.eu/en/article-details/-/article-
           | detail...
        
             | dougmwne wrote:
             | The main reason to wear these is abrasion resistance for
             | working with ropes and tools. They are not needed for
             | everyday skiing and a goretex glove is going to be a better
             | and easier choice. Unless you really need that snowgun
             | maintenance crew chic.
        
             | cjonas wrote:
             | In the US, a pair of 20 dollar kinco full leather gloves +
             | snoseal will immediately give you "local" cred and save you
             | from overpriced name brand junk that doesnt hold up.
        
               | rjsw wrote:
               | The ones in my link are even cheaper than that, as worn
               | by every refuse collector and ski lift operator in
               | Chamonix.
        
             | Jabbles wrote:
             | Those aren't waterproof - surely that matters?
        
               | dan-robertson wrote:
               | When it is below freezing, the snow isn't very wet. You
               | could do fine with some thick woolly gloves or mittens in
               | those conditions too.
        
               | swader999 wrote:
               | Your hands do sweat so they need to breathe a bit. Wind
               | proof is more useful for skiing than waterproof.
        
               | notatoad wrote:
               | you put sno-seal on them
        
         | adrianmonk wrote:
         | Also, that stand mixer isn't going to fit in my kitchen
         | cabinet. Compare that to my consumer-grade Sunbeam. It's
         | smaller, and the top part (motor, etc.) separates from the
         | stand part via a quick-release button, so it fits on a shelf
         | which isn't very tall at all.
        
           | dan-robertson wrote:
           | And it probably doesn't work so well if you aren't making
           | enormous quantities of dough.
        
             | convolvatron wrote:
             | eh. the 5 quart hobart is the same capacity as the 5 qt
             | plastic gear break the first time you knead machine. and it
             | really is a joy to use and break down.
             | 
             | it does stand a bit taller and weight about twice as much.
        
           | cobalt wrote:
           | the one you'd want to get is the kitchenaid commercial, which
           | is a reasonable size and NSF rated
        
           | pengaru wrote:
           | We made the mistake of ordering a Sunbeam set of chef knives
           | w/wood storage block off Amazon for the kitchen at my last
           | startup.
           | 
           | Every knife was dull and identically serrated like a budget
           | steak knife, despite presenting as a comprehensive set of
           | chef knives. The whole set was almost completely useless.
           | 
           | Sunbeam is not the reasonable quality brand it once was back
           | in the Sears days, stay away.
        
             | adrianmonk wrote:
             | Wow, that does sound like a truly terrible set of knives.
             | 
             | The mixer I have is a hand-me-down from probably the 1970s.
             | (Model 1-7A, in "beautiful" almond color scheme.) Still
             | works perfectly.
        
         | JJMcJ wrote:
         | Fans - did some work on a 19 inch rack mountable system. Had
         | four I think 12,000 RPM fans.
         | 
         | The fans were about 1 inch on a side but between them they
         | sounded like a fully loaded 747 spinning up.
        
           | dsr_ wrote:
           | The test units for the first generation of AMD Opteron 1U
           | servers we bought were immediately named pratt, whitney,
           | rolls and royce.
        
             | jrockway wrote:
             | GE feels left out!
        
             | JJMcJ wrote:
             | Quite correctly, I would assume.
        
         | crooked-v wrote:
         | Another obvious example here given the people on this website
         | is servers: if you're going to have a home server, unless you
         | can go put it in a soundproofed room in the basement, you're
         | going to want to use consumer-grade fans that aren't inherently
         | screamingly loud.
        
         | totesraunch wrote:
         | Interestingly the Dyson fan is significantly louder than a
         | cheap WalMart fan.
         | 
         | https://youtu.be/dS0oFmzU06g
        
       | lucb1e wrote:
       | This started off as a fun article about "what's the most overkill
       | way I can get this?" and then looking for second-hand fighter jet
       | seats just for the shits and giggles.
       | 
       | I like that.
       | 
       | But then it goes south from there, the author seems to believe
       | that anything that isn't from the USA military must be crap:
       | 
       | > Made in the USA from military grade [...] preferably a military
       | supplier [...] This is the real thing, used by the US military.
       | [...]
       | 
       | > _Consumer goods suck. You keep buying them._ [emphasis theirs]
       | 
       | > The average consumer is an idiot, so the bean counters keep
       | milking them.
       | 
       | So we're idiots for buying a regular knife instead of some
       | military variant that makes you look like, well, someone who
       | would carry a gun as well? Or _regular_ napkins rather than some
       | special cleanroom rated upgrade? I think I 'm good, thanks.
        
         | renewiltord wrote:
         | Military grade end user shit is usually crap. It suffers from
         | the same problem that so many IT departments have: the guy
         | buying isn't the guy using.
         | 
         | In the market, competition is strong. In the military market,
         | your connections are way more valuable.
        
         | goatinaboat wrote:
         | "Military grade" means "made by the lowest bidder" in reality
        
           | mahathu wrote:
           | Like the $7.63 a piece earplugs by 3M that turned out
           | defective: https://www.reuters.com/world/us/jury-finds-3ms-
           | earplugs-cau...
        
           | nraynaud wrote:
           | French military takes the second lowest as a rule. So much
           | better.
        
             | ansgri wrote:
             | Very clever, I assume it's far more difficult to game the
             | system unless you control two bidders.
        
               | nraynaud wrote:
               | No, they just talk to each other and take turns being the
               | lowest one.
               | 
               | I mean how many military equipment companies can you
               | sustain with a country the size of California? Whatever
               | your answer, above a certain pay grade, all employees
               | come from a single engineering school anyways.
        
           | systemvoltage wrote:
           | Disagree. Picking any other bidder is foolish.
           | 
           | If you've ever looked into military procurement, there are a
           | number of MIL standards and a specific list of requirements.
           | If the product meets specifications and testing results,
           | picking anyone but the lowest bidder accounting for other
           | "soft" commercial aspects such as company stability,
           | leadership, and book health; would be foolish and
           | irresponsible.
           | 
           | I've seen several comments here that "military" grade means
           | lowest bidder. That's optimal.
           | 
           | Look at it this way - consumer market is completely
           | unregulated, no specifications and lots misleading
           | terminology. Any Military would crucify you for fraud.
           | 
           | Is it perfect? No. Is it close to perfection? Yes. Also look
           | into medical grade things such as scissors.
        
             | mysterydip wrote:
             | Sometimes the lowest bidder is the lowest because they
             | purposely underbid knowing they will have cost/schedule
             | overruns later and the customer would rather throw good
             | money after bad than start the process over with nothing to
             | show. I like the second lowest bidder process mentioned
             | elsewhere.
        
               | systemvoltage wrote:
               | I've worked in procurement and let me tell you - there is
               | a lot more than looking at a ranked list of bidders and
               | going "oh look, lowest bidder. Job done, let's go with
               | these folks." The caricature on HN is so incredibly
               | misleading. Supplier selection is quite involved.
               | 
               | The right term is "optimal".
        
         | wyager wrote:
         | Being made in the USA is absolutely a pretty good quality
         | indicator. It's not the only country that makes good stuff
         | (most EU countries + Japan are good as well), but in the
         | absence of domain expertise it's a great heuristic.
        
         | neilpanchal wrote:
         | Author here. I need to push back on this. This whole post is
         | tongue in cheek, totally over-the-top and my way of doing
         | things. I thought that was obvious including a lofty claim of
         | an average consumer. People seem to be hung up on that. No one
         | is calling you an idiot - and no, I have no romance for US
         | military. Bought plenty of things from Swedish, Canadian and
         | Swiss military and other industries. You're unnecessarily
         | painting a character picture that's going with your biases,
         | borderline politicizing it with gun ownership - I'd like you to
         | think about this and reconsider how you judge people.
         | 
         | For what it's worth - I've also bought overkill items and
         | they've turned out to be a disaster. For instance, for the TPI
         | fan in the example - I had to get an industrial fan controller
         | because it was too damn loud and restaurant grade containers
         | that are not BPA-free.
        
           | lucb1e wrote:
           | That makes a lot more sense, thanks for commenting!
        
         | Denvercoder9 wrote:
         | The irony here is that anyone who has actually served would
         | gladly tell you that half the military grade stuff they had to
         | deal with is utter junk.
        
           | jedberg wrote:
           | It was purchased from the vendor with the lowest bid, so
           | that's not entirely surprising.
        
             | tomcooks wrote:
             | Depends on which army, decade, and type of object you're
             | talking about.
             | 
             | E.g. British wire cutters, German parkas, French boots,
             | etc.
        
           | austincheney wrote:
           | My assault pack (army backpack) feels like it can survive
           | reentry from space. Military gear has gotten so much better
           | since I joined the military 24 years ago, but it's so much
           | more expensive.
        
           | jlkuester7 wrote:
           | After working on a farm, I updated my scale of measurement
           | for tough/functional equipment. Used to think mil-surplus was
           | the way to go, but quickly learned that what you say is
           | absolutely true (at least for US gear). My new gold-standard
           | is "farmer-proof". Was struck by the absolute beating that
           | farm equipment had to take. Often it was being used in
           | unexpexted/improper ways with minimum maintenance by
           | operators with little or no training... (These all apply to
           | military equipment too, but the farm acquisition process is
           | purely utilitarian, as opposed to the nonsense that goes into
           | specing and purchasing military gear). Equipment purchased on
           | a farm is rarely the best available, but is always optimized
           | to get the job done with the maximum possible usible
           | lifespan.
        
           | cf100clunk wrote:
           | Indeed, this concept that "military grade" quality is
           | superior to consumer grade is mythological in many cases. It
           | is all about the relative worthiness of the specification(s)
           | to which the product is built, meaning that crappy specs
           | yield crappy results, whether military or commercial. Also
           | the amount of rework sometimes required on "military grade"
           | gear to make it actually do its job is seldom publicized
           | except in occasional oversight proceedings in some countries.
           | So, "military grade" is a mysterious, mythological, misused
           | quality.
        
             | systemvoltage wrote:
             | Totally disagree. I've bought all kinds of items from
             | surplus stores and Swiss military gear. Usually, better by
             | a large margin. The only thing it suffers is aesthetics if
             | you care about such things.
             | 
             | These are all better in most cases:
             | 
             | Medical grade
             | 
             | Military grade
             | 
             | Industrial grade
             | 
             | Cleanroom grade (for some items)
             | 
             | Marine grade
             | 
             | Try looking into it.
        
               | Grustaf wrote:
               | I use a Swiss "weapons bag" made in the 40s out of 8mm
               | thick leather for my laptop, I love the aesthetics! Any
               | links to places where I can get more Swiss military gear?
        
         | Ekaros wrote:
         | Buy expensive knife? Or I could buy 15 cheap ones and just
         | replace them as I go... And it's not like those cheap ones can
         | be sharpened if needed.
        
           | weasel_words wrote:
           | That sounds...really wasteful.
           | 
           | Perhaps a happy medium? Maybe not $1500 Damascus knife, but
           | maybe a nice Wusthof so you're not throwing so much out, and
           | damaging the environment.
        
             | Ekaros wrote:
             | I'm talking about proper brand name construction knifes
             | like Mora... Using the wrong tool for wrong job will break
             | them, but used properly they aren't easy to break.
        
         | mgarfias wrote:
         | I bought my knife from a delta force commando that retired and
         | now makes knives. It's beef.
        
       | bluedino wrote:
       | I see this all the time. Friend of mine bought a $200 Milwaukee
       | drill to put up a couple picture frames.
        
         | defterGoose wrote:
         | Yeah, but you have to be careful with literally any product
         | available at a big box store. My first foray into the Milwaukee
         | brand was their M12 rotary tool and the speed controller broke
         | after about 2-3 total hours of use. Meanwhile my Grandpa's
         | Dremel from the 70s is still chooching along.
        
         | kfajdsl wrote:
         | My rule of thumb for tools is to always first buy the cheapo
         | Harbor Freight special (I'll get something a little better for
         | precision tools) and if that tool breaks then that means I use
         | the tool enough to justify getting something better.
         | 
         | Spoiler alert: most of my tools are the cheapest I could find.
        
           | snth wrote:
           | I like the idea of this, and I'm sure you save a lot of
           | money, but the downside is this: I want to do some one-off
           | job I haven't done before. It'll be difficult, because I will
           | be trying it for the first time. Do I really want to make it
           | even _more_ difficult by cheaping out on tools? I've done
           | this several times, and I've ended up doing several jobs over
           | again with better tools after I've screwed up the first time.
           | 
           | Edit: In other words, cheap tools aren't just less durable,
           | they often do a worse job (or at least make it harder to do a
           | good job).
        
             | wetpaws wrote:
             | You would want to start with cheapest thing cause usually
             | you don't know how good things you actually need.
             | 
             | Using cheep tools gives you a freedom to experiment and
             | know the limitations of the domain area and then invest in
             | things that you exactly need without the risk of overpaying
             | or underpaying, all for a minimum investment.
        
           | MonaroVXR wrote:
           | That's a good one and this is what I mostly do.
        
         | swader999 wrote:
         | One of my buddies is a construction guy. He just buys consumer
         | grade with warranty and has two sets of everything. He says pro
         | is too expensive given how often they still break and get
         | stolen on the job site.
        
         | p_l wrote:
         | At the same time I accidentally bought Bosch Professional
         | cordless drill long time ago.
         | 
         | It's biggest problem is that sometimes I forget I have it, then
         | fix what I was doing in few minutes. Also I sometimes forget to
         | charge it, as it holds a charge for years in my practice.
        
       | Animats wrote:
       | I have a ruggedized phone with Caterpillar Tractor branding.
       | There are other waterproof and rugged phones now, but a few years
       | ago, they were the first to have a smartphone with reasonable
       | toughness. (Of course, before smartphones, there was Nokia.) I
       | have it so that if I get dumped off the horse, I can call for
       | help.
        
       | fnord77 wrote:
       | one drawback of commercial supply houses is very expensive
       | shipping costs. shipping for a small order may be more than what
       | you're buying
        
       | blt wrote:
       | Unfortunately this style can be a hard sell for the people you
       | live with. Some people don't want their home to look like a
       | restaurant / workshop / office / warehouse / etc.
        
       | crooked-v wrote:
       | To make my own recommendation along these lines, Bluffworks
       | pants: https://shop.bluffworks.com/pages/technical-pants I've
       | found them excellent for travel because they remain wrinkle-
       | resistant and looking like I've just stepped out of an office no
       | matter what conditions I put them through, up to and including a
       | month backpacking with constant wear on hikes and irregular sink-
       | washing.
        
         | stepanhruda wrote:
         | Looks cool, but is it in the same category as anything in the
         | article? This just seems like a good brand.
        
       | hoelz_ya wrote:
       | You know that guy in movies who weirdly knows waaay too much
       | about the history of every random piece of military screwdriver
       | and seatbelt buckle, and you're always like "that guy doesn't
       | actually exist"? Well, you were wrong. This is that guy.
        
       | gnarbarian wrote:
       | I purchased a 30-in steel barrel fan from home Depot 3 years ago
       | and I maintain it is the best fan I've ever owned
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | jlkuester7 wrote:
       | I am a huge fan of highly durable equipment, but one thing to
       | watch out for is that comfort/ergonimics are often sacrificed for
       | the sake of simplicity and duribility. Ask anyone who has spent
       | time in a military vehicle. Those things can take a beating and
       | are made to be repaired quickly and sent back out for more. But a
       | quite comfortable ride they are not.... Sometimes that no-
       | compromise toughness is exactly what you want. In other
       | situations there is real value in creature comforts.
       | 
       | For example, I have an old '97 F250 that is as basic of a model
       | as you can possibly get. Regular cab, bench seat, manual
       | everything from the windows to the transmission. It is a beast
       | and will take whatever you give it. It is simple and easy to fix
       | when something breaks, but it is also crazy loud, rough, and
       | uncomfortable to be in. Perfect for getting work done, but for a
       | cross-country trip with my wife and kids I would opt for the
       | minivan any day.
        
         | Grustaf wrote:
         | For me that's one of the selling points. Modern life is so
         | ridiculously over engineered to be comfortable, we can all use
         | some rough edges.
        
           | ketzo wrote:
           | That's one of those things that sounds super fun when you're
           | opting into it on a weekend.
           | 
           | Much less so on a Tuesday night after a stressful day and
           | your goddamn window won't close even though it's raining and
           | you can't play music because the stereo only takes cassettes
           | and you're not gonna listen to that one fucking Hall and
           | Oates tape _again_ and there 's no heat and your neck is sore
           | because the headrest is made of plastic and....
           | 
           | Creature comforts are most important when you're not thinking
           | about them. I don't _ever_ want to get in my car and think,
           | "ah, this is what it means to be _human_! this is REAL! "
        
             | Grustaf wrote:
             | Well, I lived my entire 20s like that. Moved to Russia,
             | lived in a Soviet era dorm, travelled to Vladivostok in a
             | 4th class carriage etc. So it's not theoretical...
        
               | [deleted]
        
               | jmercouris wrote:
               | For a while... until it isn't. I've been very poor, and
               | I've experienced very similar things. Traveling
               | everywhere by bike in the freezing cold.
               | 
               | I think there is a romaniticization of suffering. I also
               | wanted to show my merit, my worth in some way. I had
               | grown up in a very cushy environment, and I was trying to
               | prove something.
               | 
               | Going back in time I would advise anyone against your
               | belief. Anyone who reads this, please don't make the
               | mistake of living a rough life for whatever inane purpose
               | you can think of. It will not make you a better person.
               | It is as stupid as it sounds.
        
           | jlkuester7 wrote:
           | For the most part I totally agree with you. That is why I
           | enjoy leaving the comfort if my home to go backpacking in the
           | mountains or something. Sometimes challenging yourself can
           | make you feel more alive!
           | 
           | It is just that from personal experience, a road trip with
           | small children has enough rough edges that road/engine noise
           | so loud that the kids can't sleep does not have to be one of
           | them...
        
             | jesselawson wrote:
             | The way I describe it to people is like this: some folks
             | like to feel a nicely sanded handle, and other folks like
             | to sand down a handle so that it feels nicely sanded.
        
       | intricatedetail wrote:
       | I like how domain name is an overkill.
        
       | fhub wrote:
       | The best shade umbrella's have wind tunnel youtube videos -
       | https://www.bambrellausa.com/wind-tunnel-test-videos.
        
       | cosmodisk wrote:
       | When I was a kid I had a winter tanker helmet form soviet army.
       | It was super cool thing and my dad I used to put it on every now
       | and then to have some fun. Now at some point I'm hoping to have
       | enough money to buy that ejector seat- It'd be an ultimate item
       | at home or in a office!
        
       | sfeng wrote:
       | Everyone should shop at restaurant supply stores. You can get
       | identical metal mixing bowls for a fraction of the price of the
       | heavy bowls most people have. Plus they clean easily and stack,
       | so you can have a dozen at the ready easily.
        
       | monkpit wrote:
       | For certain things this is a good idea, but at some point you
       | step into "mall ninja" territory.
        
       | hprotagonist wrote:
       | digikey and mcmaster are wonderful things to know about.
       | 
       | at least in 2012 or so, digikey still had call centers in
       | minnesota and the upper peninsula, and still taught all their
       | call center reps the nato alphabet. There is nothing more crisply
       | charming than a call operator who sounds like Bobby's mom from
       | Bobby's World reading you back your resistor SKUs in flawless and
       | rapid phonetic alphabet.
        
         | mrzool wrote:
         | Do you happen to know about a mcmaster equivalent for the EU?
        
           | wyager wrote:
           | RS components is good - I used them in HK and I think they
           | serve EU as well. Not quite the same but pretty solid.
        
             | thequux wrote:
             | RS doesn't deign to even talk to people who don't have VAT
             | IDs here :-(
             | 
             | It's a shame; as far as I can tell, the only reasonably-
             | priced source for bulk machine screws that I've been able
             | to find was Aliexpress/Alibaba (depending on quantities),
             | and even that has gone to shit with the new import tax
             | rules. (I'm not opposed to paying import taxes. I _am_
             | opposed to paying a EUR20 processing fee in addition to
             | EUR0.30 tax for EUR1.50 worth of stuff)
        
               | nbernard wrote:
               | In France, they have a different website for the general
               | public ( https://www.rs-particuliers.com ). Its search
               | function is terrible: you basically have to look up the
               | RS ID of whatever your are looking for on the pro site
               | first. But you even have free shipping when ordering
               | during the week-end.
               | 
               | Don't they have similar sites for other EU countries?
        
               | ju-st wrote:
               | Thanks to your comment I just found https://www.rsonline-
               | privat.de but the site doesn't seem to have free shipping
               | during the weekend (at least now 1h before the end of
               | Sunday).
        
           | [deleted]
        
       | kmfrk wrote:
       | /r/buyitforlife is great for this sort of stuff, if people ever
       | need something specific.
        
         | smnrchrds wrote:
         | It used to be like that many years ago. Then it got flooded
         | with posts like "I found this unused tool in my garage, it has
         | been sitting there for 40 years in original packaging, it still
         | works". Has it gone back to its root recently?
        
           | erikpukinskis wrote:
           | I just subbed recently, and it has seemed more in line with
           | the "roots" to me, based on what comes up in my feed.
        
           | defterGoose wrote:
           | Yeah, every time ive been there half the posts are someone
           | raving about a vacuum flask or how durable cast iron skillets
           | are...
        
       | bonestamp2 wrote:
       | I use restaurant glassware at home. It's nice, yet minimalistic
       | looking (to match any style restaurant/home), relatively cheap,
       | very durable:
       | 
       | https://shop.libbey.com/collections/beverageware/products/ba...
        
         | pimlottc wrote:
         | +1 for restaurant supply stores. You can find at least one in
         | any reasonably sized city and they have just about everything
         | you could possibly need, from tableware to cookware to
         | appliances to bulk dry goods to cleaning and safety equipment.
         | No frills and competitively priced.
        
           | evil-olive wrote:
           | I've ordered from [0] several times and can recommend them as
           | an online option.
           | 
           | Only major downside is that shipping is expensive (unless you
           | join their Amazon Prime equivalent, which is $99/month and
           | doesn't really make sense for a household). I think my last
           | order was around $30 s&h on a ~$200 order.
           | 
           | My workaround is that I save up a big wishlist and then order
           | from them about once a year, and get friends & family to tack
           | on any items they want as well.
           | 
           | 0: https://www.webstaurantstore.com/
        
       | ClumsyPilot wrote:
       | "I don't think corporations/businesses are to blame... The
       | average consumer is extremely ill-informed."
       | 
       | This is very unfair - the average cobsumer is purposefully
       | mislead on a daily basis, for example applle forbids apps from
       | informing consumer that 30% of their _donation to a charity_ is
       | taken.
       | 
       | With industrial goods, there is a whole department who's job is
       | proqurement and to know what they are buying. And lets not
       | pretent no funny business ever happens there either.
       | 
       | But lastly, some consumer good are better - DSLR's beat any
       | industrial cameras, and commercial dishwashers are a toally
       | different beast, unsuitable and dangerous to a naive user.
        
         | cblconfederate wrote:
         | > from informing consumer that 30% of their donation to a
         | charity is taken
         | 
         | For me the biggest concern is that people want this to happen
         | and even would go as far as say that people get a perverse
         | sense of satisfaction from Apple's unfair behavior. Because it
         | validates the widespread pessimism and 'everything is broken'
         | mentality that is normalized nowadays
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | tracedddd wrote:
         | I agree consumers are misled but Apple is a poor example here.
         | I know the App Store fee is a popular topic right now but they
         | are one of the few companies making a consumer product that is
         | bounds ahead of military or industrial versions.
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | ClumsyPilot wrote:
           | They are a perfect example of a company that purposefully
           | misleads, and forces other companies they work with to
           | mislead, for example on the subject of repairs - to be
           | authorised repair shop for apple, you have to lie to a
           | customer that recovering their data is impossible, and is my
           | view that shoupd be illegal.
           | 
           | They products might be good, but their methods are ruthless -
           | they are wanna-be like mexican cartels.
        
           | cblconfederate wrote:
           | Does the us army or ISS use apple products?
        
             | Razengan wrote:
             | NASA does
        
             | cosmojg wrote:
             | Last I checked, NASA issues Blackberries and iPhones:
             | https://oig.nasa.gov/audits/reports/FY14/IG-14-015.pdf
             | 
             | On the laptop side, they're using ThinkPads.
        
             | ta988 wrote:
             | According to Sam.gov they do.
        
         | whoisburbansky wrote:
         | I was surprised that the App Store would take a cut of charity
         | donations, so I looked it up and pretty much every forum post I
         | found says that you're actually forbidden from collecting
         | donations using in app purchases, and have to do so through out
         | of band methods to get through App Review? [1]
         | 
         | Kind of difficult to take a cut of payments you explicitly
         | don't allow on your platform, isn't it?
         | 
         | https://apple.stackexchange.com/questions/136983/would-apple...
        
           | amelius wrote:
           | Yeah, that's Apple's excuse as it is very difficult to set up
           | out-of-band payment methods on an Apple system.
        
             | realityking wrote:
             | Stripe would like to sell you a solution:
             | https://stripe.com/docs/terminal/sdk/ios
        
             | Grustaf wrote:
             | It's extremely easy. The controversy is about not being
             | able to mention it in your app.
        
               | amelius wrote:
               | Exactly, that's part of what I mean by "set up".
        
           | Avamander wrote:
           | The same applies to Google Play. Can't take donations without
           | giving Google a cut.
        
           | brigade wrote:
           | https://socialimpact.facebook.com/charitable-giving/live-
           | don...
           | 
           | I don't use Facebook so I don't know if that page is
           | misleading, but it certainly looks like you can donate money
           | (in the legal meaning!) through Facebook's iOS app.
           | 
           | I think most of the recent takes were about Twitter's tip jar
           | that would potentially let you send money to nonprofits. But,
           | Twitter so far has avoided using the word "donate" and its
           | legal implications.
        
       | vdnkh wrote:
       | Using a ka-bar for hiking is a terrible idea. At 0.7lbs it weighs
       | as much as a quality sleeping bag/tent/pack. Also, you likely
       | don't need a knife. Scissors are much more useful, and micro
       | scissors weigh less than an ounce.
       | 
       | Ultralight hiking adds an interesting forcing function to gear -
       | correctly "built" (as in not overbuilt or under built). Bring the
       | gear which matches the need. In essence, the complete opposite
       | sentiment of this post.
        
         | swader999 wrote:
         | Yeah this is true. With a K-bar though you might leave your axe
         | behind depending on your trip.
        
           | vdnkh wrote:
           | It's double edged so maybe not. I think if I needed to split
           | wood I'd want a hatchet.
           | 
           | With the hiking I like to do, I hike all day, boil water for
           | food with a canister stove, and pass out. So I optimize for
           | weight - less weight = more miles (and is much more
           | comfortable).
        
             | swader999 wrote:
             | Yeah I really like that style too. Sometimes we hike to a
             | nice spot and just stay there a couple of days. I'll pack
             | differently for that. It's so much fun with little kids
             | that don't have as much range. You could still baton
             | through wood with the k bar but there are better options.
        
             | giantg2 wrote:
             | Pretty sure the standard k-bar is only single edge.
        
             | germinalphrase wrote:
             | Which is - obviously - very different than backcountry
             | winter camping in which you're already pulling a sled
             | behind skis. Bring that axe, fresh food and bottle of wine.
        
         | pengaru wrote:
         | You seem to be conflating hiking with backpacking.
        
           | drstewart wrote:
           | You don't need a knife backpacking either. I did 200 miles on
           | the PCT without even bringing a knife.
        
             | pengaru wrote:
             | > You don't need a knife backpacking either. I did 200
             | miles on the PCT without even bringing a knife.
             | 
             | I don't generally _need_ a knife in my daily life either,
             | but I still carry one at all times. In the same sense that
             | I often wear a seatbelt, despite hopefully never needing
             | one, and having driven many hundreds of thousands of miles
             | without one ever proving useful.
             | 
             | It's just when it comes to hiking vs. backpacking, the
             | calculus of what to carry changes significantly because
             | when backpacking you implicitly are carrying much more junk
             | than on a hike.
             | 
             | For me hiking is much closer to a long walk in civilization
             | than backpacking; I encounter more people, and carry my
             | knife just like I do around town. Hiking is actually
             | especially unique since it tends to be done civilization
             | adjacent, and for some idiots that's the most accessible
             | source of cover for criminal fuckery or desperate homeless
             | living.
        
         | justAnIdea wrote:
         | > Also, you likely don't need a knife. Scissors are much more
         | useful, and micro scissors weigh less than an ounce.
         | 
         | You can only have this opinion if you're going hiking with your
         | wife's boyfriend.
        
         | Der_Einzige wrote:
         | I thought the ideal camping gear were multitools? e.g. swiss
         | army knife or leatherman.
        
           | vdnkh wrote:
           | I think the victorinox classic has a blade and scissors and
           | weighs 0.7oz
        
         | LanceH wrote:
         | Knive does the work of scissors and it can hack, hammer, and
         | prepare fish or small game.
        
         | tracedddd wrote:
         | I bring a fixed blade knife hiking. Can split wood in a pinch.
         | Not nearly as heavy as a ka-bar, though.
         | 
         | Your point still stands, though. I had a military pack and
         | couldn't believe how heavy it was even when empty. Ultralight
         | hiking gear is pretty amazing and optimized for an entirely
         | different goal. That said, I still feel like specialty gear
         | like this is a different class than the average consumer
         | stuff.. closer to industrial or military in design than Amazon
         | junk.
        
         | wyager wrote:
         | I use a knife all the time while hiking - good luck cutting a
         | salami with scissors. That said, the ka-bar is not worth the
         | weight. I really like my benchmade hidden canyon.
        
           | vdnkh wrote:
           | Haha salami is what I worry about. But there are knives for
           | under an ounce. And at any rate, I don't mind eating the
           | salami log straight up
        
           | bitexploder wrote:
           | I've always got by with a simple folding spyderco knife.
           | Small. Lasts forever. Does 90% of jobs when backpacking or
           | around the house, etc. a ka-bar is a fine car camping knife
           | though. Meant to take abuse and be a multi purpose heavy duty
           | tool. We mostly overland and car camp these days. Different
           | tools for different purposes and all that.
        
             | wyager wrote:
             | Problem with folding knives for camping is they get gunk in
             | them.
             | 
             | Ka-bars are kind of a meme. They are made fairly cheaply.
             | You won't find knife enthusiasts (eg USN) recommending ka-
             | bars.
        
               | bitexploder wrote:
               | Folding knife does get a little messy but I have
               | backpacked thousands of miles with the same one and it is
               | never a practical issue.
        
             | germinalphrase wrote:
             | Dragonfly and you're done for 95 percent of tasks.
        
               | throwawaaarrgh wrote:
               | I use a $4 folding "outdoor" pocket knife from Wal-Mart.
               | I have used it for cooking, digging holes, cutting
               | branches, rope, plastic, fabric, tightening screws,
               | fixing zippers, opening cans of food, hammering random
               | things... I honestly can't remember the last time I
               | sharpened it, it doesn't seem to be dull yet.
        
           | tbran wrote:
           | Ultralight hiking tip: You can cut meat and cheese with
           | fishing line.
           | 
           | Still like to carry a knife, though!
        
             | swader999 wrote:
             | HN suprises me all the time with little gems like this.
        
       | dukeofdoom wrote:
       | On the other end of the spectrum. 4k Prosumer Canon cameras
       | purposely designed to overheat.
       | 
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X1u-9YqrIJc
        
       | hn_throwaway_99 wrote:
       | Like the Hobart mixer from this article, I always find it
       | interesting that many of the best "overkill" objects are simply
       | ones from the early/mid 20th century before manufacturers figured
       | out it makes more economic sense to pump out low quality shit
       | that will break just after the warranty expires.
       | 
       | I'm into old school espresso machines, and there is a robust
       | market (and some fascinating refurb videos) for older, lever
       | espresso machines - the quality and design is just much better
       | than any consumer-grade equipment that is sold today.
        
         | Daishiman wrote:
         | To be fair... there was _a lot_ of heavy-duty crap back that
         | was badly designed, poisonous/polluting or novely. It's just
         | that you don't see it now because it's all rusted away or lives
         | in junkyards.
        
           | hn_throwaway_99 wrote:
           | At the same time, there is other stuff that is good quality
           | but that could _never_ be produced today because of liability
           | concerns, but if you 're in a home without small children
           | running around you're probably good.
           | 
           | I'm the proud owner of a La Peppina espresso machine (image:
           | https://www.home-barista.com/levers/my-first-lever-la-
           | peppin...). It makes great espresso, but it also keeps a
           | kettle of boiling water suspended on a relatively small
           | pedestal where you push down on the lever next to it. I'm
           | glad I own one because something like it will never be
           | produced again.
        
             | dredmorbius wrote:
             | I'm not seeing the image there.
             | 
             | This?
             | 
             | https://i.pinimg.com/originals/79/82/72/79827236408416d55d8
             | f...
        
             | Daishiman wrote:
             | I'm not really seeing the point here. Lever espresso
             | machines exist and continue to be manufactured. La Pavoni
             | and Olympia continue to make lever espresso machines that
             | work just fine.
             | 
             | A lot of the reliability concerns from tools of the past
             | are frankly quite well justified, and to this date we
             | continue to sell and produce tools that are dangerous if
             | not properly operated.
        
               | hn_throwaway_99 wrote:
               | Older machines, like La Peppina and Caravel, are open
               | boiler machines, meaning the boiler is not pressurized.
               | The way the water flows means they have excellent
               | temperature stability for espresso (the boiler is of
               | course at 100C, so the brew temp is right around 95C).
               | 
               | Of course, an open boiler means there are a lot more
               | potential safety issues.
        
         | bob1029 wrote:
         | I've been considering the economics around a startup company
         | that exclusively produces home appliances & tools that are
         | purely electro-mechanical in design.
         | 
         | I know I am not alone in saying that I would happily pay a 2-3x
         | premium for any appliance if it were engineered properly and
         | actually _left out_ all the ridiculous technological bullshit
         | it never needed in the first place. To this day, no one at Best
         | Buy can explain to me how WiFi helps me clean my clothes better
         | or faster.
         | 
         | Also consider the current economics around the chip shortage...
         | Relays, A/C induction motors, electromagnets, switches and all
         | other essential macro-scale components required for building a
         | washing machine or clothes dryer can still be built by human
         | hands in any factory on earth. Not only are all of these things
         | available now, they are arguably the superior engineering
         | choice when making something intended to deliver value to the
         | end user.
        
           | LanceH wrote:
           | Take my idea. Produce the same children's toys which make
           | noises and make the same thing with maximum volume a lot
           | less. That's it. Your marketing is taken care of right there.
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | dale_glass wrote:
           | The technological bullshit often makes the device much
           | better.
           | 
           | Let's take an object I'm quite familiar with: an espresso
           | machine. Some like the classic Rancilio Silvia are 100%
           | electromechanical. It's nice and simple, but there are
           | downsides:
           | 
           | * Temperature regulation is very coarse, because it's done
           | with thermal relays.
           | 
           | * There's no timing. All manual.
           | 
           | * There's no water sensor.
           | 
           | * There are potential failure modes.
           | 
           | It's a machine that'll be happy to try to keep pumping
           | nothing until the pump burns out, and that produces variable
           | results depending on the user's timing and precision. Popular
           | add-ons include a PID controller to fix the temperature
           | regulation, a pressure gauge (analog is fine there, but
           | digital could also be used for safety), and a stopwatch.
           | 
           | Once you look into coffee forums frequented by the fans of
           | well made coffee, you see that one really sought after thing
           | is control and precision. Precisely controlling the grind,
           | the amount of coffee, the amount of water, the temperature
           | and the timing. Notice something? It's all stuff that
           | electronics excel at, and humans suck at. Controlling timing,
           | weight and water flow is a perfect task for a machine, which
           | it can do with impeccable precision.
           | 
           | And along with that stuff, it can improve safety eg, by
           | noticing things like "The heater has been on for a minute yet
           | temperature doesn't seem rising -- maybe the sensor is
           | broken". Plus quality of life thing like warming up on a
           | timer, and automatically turning off afterwards.
           | 
           | The issue isn't with electronics but with electronics being
           | applied in the wrong direction.
        
             | Avamander wrote:
             | > The issue isn't with electronics but with electronics
             | being applied in the wrong direction.
             | 
             | This is also an issue with IoT in general. The internet
             | functionality replaces basic functionality instead of being
             | built on top. No, I don't want to wash my clothes with an
             | app! But I would not mind the fscking machine to shut the
             | fuck up at night and remind me in the morning to empty it.
             | Not a hard thing to do. Same with e.g. light switches, if
             | there's no internet it should still work, some don't,
             | awful.
        
         | Grustaf wrote:
         | Rancilio makes extremely repairable cafe grade espresso
         | machines for consumers!
        
       | whack wrote:
       | > _The average consumer is an idiot, so the bean counters keep
       | milking them... They want pizzaz over functionality and
       | durability. They want shiny stuff in a bigger box... The
       | industrial, military and commercial market doesn 't mess around.
       | They want to purchase equipment that works reliably and performs
       | to a specification. It's professional and their livelihood
       | depends on it. It sort of self filters the entire market. Shitty
       | things drop off the radar due to poor sales._
       | 
       | This sounds like a cool hobby and conversation starter. But it's
       | hard to take the author seriously when he proselytizes on the
       | practical virtues of buying ejector seats over retail chairs.
       | Industrial goods are often built for very specific use-cases. If
       | those use-cases don't align with your own needs, you're just
       | paying a lot of money for something you don't need. And often,
       | something that fails to deliver on your actual needs.
        
         | t0mas88 wrote:
         | I would highly recommend a 787 cockpit seat instead. Much more
         | comfortable and adjustable than an ejection seat and also kind
         | of futuristic looking from behind.
         | 
         | If you mind the gap between your knees for the controls too
         | much, look for an Airbus seat. They also have nice armrests
         | because the stick is on the side.
        
           | Wistar wrote:
           | A friend of mine is a chief pilot for an (astonishingly)
           | wealthy family. One day he toured me through their 2-year-old
           | Bombardier Global Express jet. I asked how much one of the
           | somewhat flimsy-looking passenger-cabin seats cost and he
           | said, "About $40,000."
           | 
           | He pointed out that virtually every single element in the
           | $60+ million aircraft is engineered for flight and occupant
           | safety, and to be as light as possible.
        
         | rsuttongee wrote:
         | Haha, pretty sure the author doesn't expect anyone to take this
         | post entirely seriously.
        
           | zamalek wrote:
           | I'm considering this very seriously:
           | 
           | > The entire consumer market is rotten. TV? It's going to
           | come with smart apps. Get one from NEC that's meant for
           | commercial use.
           | 
           | A TV has the potential to be a lifetime purchase, but the
           | software on it can render it obsolete. I can always plug my
           | streaming device of choice into the back of a "dumb TV."
        
             | Philip-J-Fry wrote:
             | Do any commercial TVs have HDR though?
        
             | Qub3d wrote:
             | I would really love someone to review a commercial display.
             | I effectively only want the panel and some inputs wired to
             | it.
        
             | shellfishgene wrote:
             | I thought buying a TV was bad, but today I wanted to find a
             | good digital picture frame. What a shit show, it seems that
             | search term has even more fake review sites and SEO spam
             | than other electronics, Amazon is full of Chinese brands
             | with random names selling the same few models, and with
             | even the apparently good ones it's hard to find out what
             | they actually do and what not. And then in the fine print
             | you find you they want to sell you a subscription, too, and
             | presumably the thing will be worthless if the company
             | decides to pull their app or shut down their servers.
             | 
             | I just want a frame that I can send pics to, or that pulls
             | from google/dropbox/whatever shares, and maybe turn off
             | when it's dark.
        
               | tomcooks wrote:
               | Make your own with a raspberry pi,a screen and a couple
               | of beers to enhance the tinkering
        
               | shellfishgene wrote:
               | If this wasn't for a birthday present next week I would
               | have, finding a screen that works and has decent viewing
               | angles seems difficult?
        
       | msla wrote:
       | A sentence I never thought I'd say: Gee, that ejector seat
       | doesn't look very comfortable.
       | 
       | Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe it feels fine even if you sit in it long
       | periods of time. However, I'm sure that it only comes in one
       | size, that size being the right size to pilot a plane with an
       | ejector seat. Anyone too big or small wasn't considered in its
       | design because they'd never make it into the relevant flight
       | program to begin with.
       | 
       | My point is, consumer objects have to be designed a bit more
       | inclusively than that, to be able to sell to a wider range of
       | buyers. That big Hobart mixer is in the same boat: It's designed
       | for people who wouldn't have gotten that bakery job if they
       | couldn't work with a large, heavy piece of kitchen equipment.
        
         | p_l wrote:
         | Heavily depends on model, and well, its designed to sit in some
         | heavy duty clothes.
         | 
         | Some ejection seats are supposed to be sat in, continuously,
         | for over 10 hours. While letting you still function.
         | 
         | That said, the cockpits tend to enforce certain posture.
        
         | iab wrote:
         | Positively uncomfortable for long periods. Having sat in a
         | number of MB seats in aircraft museums for short intervals,
         | this is exactly the wrong seat to choose for comfort. They are
         | quite adjustable though, interesting provenance:
         | 
         | https://www.gse.harvard.edu/news/ed/15/08/beyond-average
        
       | joan_kode wrote:
       | Love my infrared thermometer for steeping tea at exact
       | temperatures. These things are terrible for medical purposes
       | since they only measure surface temperature, but they're perfect
       | for diagnosing industrial machinery and tea. Also more versatile
       | than those expensive programmable tea-brewing contraptions!
        
         | bob1029 wrote:
         | I do this but for everything in my kitchen. I bought a very
         | expensive HVAC-grade Fluke IR thermometer which can handle
         | temperature ranges from -40C to 550C.
         | 
         | Being able to instantly & remotely measure the temperature of
         | anything (with reasonable emissivity characteristics) is like a
         | super power. There is nothing in my kitchen or grill area that
         | can exceed the range of the IR sensor on this unit. There are
         | only a few things that have problems with direct sampling. I
         | cook almost exclusively with cast iron, so IR readings are
         | always dead accurate.
         | 
         | The unit runs on a single AA battery, has a backlight, and
         | somehow still hasn't needed a new battery since I bought it 4
         | years ago (used almost every day).
         | 
         | I had to cook in someone else's kitchen not too long ago, and
         | found myself going insane at not being able to tell exactly how
         | hot the oil was in a pot used for frying.
        
         | fmajid wrote:
         | The problem is the emissivity calibration, as different
         | materials have different IR characteristics. For food, the best
         | by far is the fast contact Thermapen (get the original British
         | version rather than the heavily marked-up US licensee's).
        
         | evil-olive wrote:
         | As a bonus, those infrared thermometers often have a little
         | laser pointer built-in, which means it can double as a cat toy.
         | 
         | Laser pointers marketed as cat toys are often tiny little
         | things that require annoying & expensive button-cell batteries.
         | 
         | My infrared thermometer / cat toy has a pistol grip so it's
         | easier to hold, and runs off a 9V battery that lasts much
         | longer.
        
       | gojofika wrote:
       | You might check the link to get unlimited Google Voice Number
       | https://bit.ly/34tc4BI
       | 
       | (100% trusted & quality service guaranteed)
        
       | arc-in-space wrote:
       | I'm all for this type of thinking, but like the others point out,
       | you still need to keep yourself in check and put active effort
       | into figuring out when it makes sense. 'Spartan' isn't the only
       | relevant quality. The Hobart mixer is cool, but might it consume
       | too much energy, or is it too heavy to move around when needed?
       | The beakers are sweet, but am I yet wealthy enough to pretend
       | money isn't real?
       | 
       | https://thezvi.wordpress.com/2017/12/02/more-dakka/
       | 
       | All things considered, I would love to see more people put
       | together their own lists of ways you can do better than the
       | consumer default. I'm sure there's plenty of opportunities of
       | this kind.
        
         | swader999 wrote:
         | For skiing, if you want to do it for life, always buy decent
         | boots and ask pros where they get them fitted. Most people ski
         | in boots a size or two too big or with poor cuff alignment
         | (even people at a high level). It is much harder to improve and
         | enjoy your time on snow with these things not addressed.
         | 
         | The consumer approach would dismiss getting a professional
         | fitting as overkill and unnecessary but they really limit their
         | enjoyment.
        
       | jedberg wrote:
       | One thing I've always wished I had space for was using a seat
       | from a Mercedes or BMW as my desk chair. I saw someone post about
       | it decades ago. You can pick them up from the junkyard for less
       | than a fancy desk chair.
       | 
       | You screw it to a piece of plywood and get a car battery to power
       | it, and you've got a 26 way adjustable seat with lumbar support,
       | seat heaters and seat coolers, and all the other fancy features
       | of a car seat. And it's usually made of super durable easy to
       | clean materials. You get a swingarm to hold your keyboard and
       | monitor and you're all set with the ultimate chair.
       | 
       | But it takes a ton of space.
        
       | snth wrote:
       | I really like the sentiment, if not some of the specific examples
       | given. An example of my own: I went through several grocery-
       | store-bought hair clippers before getting some "pro" clippers:
       | Oster Classic 76. They work better, they are more repairable and
       | serviceable, and they've lasted me for years.
        
       | IgorPartola wrote:
       | I will postulate an opposing view to TFA:
       | 
       | Quality consumer goods are better in two key areas. First, they
       | are replaceable. I don't want a military grade mixer in my
       | kitchen if getting a broken whisk or motor on it is going to
       | require me hunting all over eBay for the specific part hoping
       | it's available. I was very excited at one point about the idea of
       | getting a commercial dishwasher that can run a load of dishes in
       | like 90 seconds. Problem with those is that you can't go to
       | Lowe's and get a replacement part when it acts up. You have to
       | call a restaurant equipment servicing company and pay them what a
       | restaurant with a broken dishwasher would pay. Or more because
       | you aren't a frequent customer. Sure, maybe it'll break less but
       | here's the thing: my modern LG dishwasher will be more convenient
       | to use and if I get 10 years out of it rather than 20 I still
       | spent only $1000 on the top of the line one rather than the $4k
       | on a 10 year old used commercial unit that I will struggle with
       | the entire time.
       | 
       | Second, consumer goods are replaceable. I am used to my Kershaw
       | knife. I broke it yesterday. I can get it serviced by the
       | manufacturer or get a brand new one, or both. If I buy some
       | special forces surplus knife and chip the blade I am either done
       | with that knife or I'm taking it to a specialist or I'm buying a
       | new one. Knowing that I can replace an item I'm used to when a
       | one-for-one replacement is a comfort. Obviously that doesn't work
       | for everything but it works for items that are made by high
       | quality manufacturers.
       | 
       | Bonus: a military grade mixer is going to suck to make high end
       | pastries because it's geared towards making mashed potatoes for
       | the troops. I feel like the author is romanticizing ma class of
       | products that in reality aren't all that amazing except in a
       | couple of key areas that to most consumers aren't as big of a
       | deal. So while it's possible that, as the author states, the
       | average consumer is an idiot, I don't see much evidence that the
       | author is much ahead of the pack here.
        
         | bayindirh wrote:
         | Moreover, consumer items beyond a price point are both very
         | well made and backed by long term warranties anyway.
         | 
         | Paying a bit more for a better item which can be repaired or
         | serviced for a very long time makes it cheaper in the long run
         | in my experience, because you buy it once and for life.
         | 
         | I love "overkill items for everyday life" point of view, but it
         | comes with trade-offs for noise, ergonomics, size,
         | replaceability and such. You can get a very good blade from
         | Victorinox or Leatherman. If you fancy good steel, you can get
         | a high end, forged German steel Victorinox chef knife and use
         | something frighteningly sharp and handsome at the same time.
         | 
         | If you want a good heater, you can pay twice the price and can
         | get a Fakir Hobby premium space heater and can use for 30+
         | years (we have two).
         | 
         | The list can go on.
        
           | megameter wrote:
           | The best consumer goods are generally the ones where the
           | design has persisted unmodified for decades. It works,
           | everyone uses it, nobody's improved on it, serviceability is
           | reasonable relative to the essential complexity, and it
           | hasn't been cost-reduced into garbage. "New model" always
           | comes with the worry: _What did they fuck up this time?_
           | 
           | Anything "professional", "military", etc. comes with the
           | potential downside of it being someone's job to maintain and
           | service it. Qualitative differences usually come with trade-
           | offs - and if it's not your job, it might not be better to
           | try.
        
         | Grustaf wrote:
         | Is this a joke or are you missing the point? The guy doesn't
         | actually think that a fighter jet seat is better than a normal
         | office chair in any practical sense. He just thinks these
         | things are cool. Often, part of the charm is how incredibly
         | impractical they are.
        
           | yourapostasy wrote:
           | _> The guy doesn 't actually think that a fighter jet seat is
           | better than a normal office chair in any practical sense._
           | 
           | Now that people are discussing it, I do want to find out if
           | there are former air force pilots reading this who can
           | corroborate or refute my hypothesis: I suspect long-duration
           | mission bombers like the US B-52 and B-2 have pilot seats
           | especially tuned for extended operational comfort, even more
           | so than commercial airliners (passenger or cargo), and it
           | would be interesting to test my hypothesis that those would
           | make excellent office chairs for coders. Someone makes these
           | from old pilot seats [1], but I'm specifically interested in
           | pilot seats from airframes that routinely perform round-trip
           | trans-Pacific routes.
           | 
           | I personally wouldn't routinely use such a seat for more than
           | say 10-12 hours at a time, but if it is proven to still be
           | comfortable after someone uses it for that long, naps for a
           | couple hours in it, and uses it for another long session,
           | then it is likely going to feel very comfortable to me. And
           | maybe the safety harness will help me maintain my posture
           | instead of having to remind myself every half hour to check
           | it.
        
             | zamfi wrote:
             | I like this line of speculation, though what to make of the
             | fact that the average military pilot and average coder
             | probably differ...substantially...in physique? Not to
             | mention ongoing training active pilots likely engage in
             | that may help with posture.
        
         | bartread wrote:
         | I think one needs to be a bit selective here.
         | 
         | About 8 years ago I bought the cheapest catering/professional
         | microwave/combioven I could get my hands on. I did this because
         | I got tired of consumer units with overcomplicated UIs designed
         | (apparently) by unregenerate misanthropes, rotating dishes that
         | are a pain in the ass to clean, overzealous bleeps that go off
         | every 30 - 60 seconds after a cycle is finished, peeling
         | enamel, corrosion issues, and that are too small on the inside.
         | 
         | Consumer grade microwave ovens all, as far as I can tell,
         | universally suck in one way or another that my commercial grade
         | microwave doesn't. The thing is bomb proof. The only thing
         | that's gone wrong in 8 years is the internal bulb. Everything
         | else is rock solid.
         | 
         | This is, however, a rather different proposition to buying a
         | food mixer that was manufactured in 1948. I _can_ get spares
         | for my microwave or, at this point, buy a new one and recycle
         | the old without feeling I haven 't got my money's worth. I'm
         | going to struggle with the 1948 mixer and, like you, I don't
         | want that.
         | 
         | Others have highlighted that commercial grade dishwashers and
         | fans are also probably bad ideas. I've run into similar issues
         | with UPSs: none of these things seem designed to run in an
         | environment where fan noise is going to cause a serious problem
         | (nobody seems to sell a completely silent UPS - it's really
         | daft).
         | 
         | Likewise, if you buy a rackmount server instead of a desktop
         | computer you may be surprised to find that the fan noise is
         | _extraordinary_.
         | 
         | Honestly, the main thing is to do your research before making a
         | purchase so that you buy something that's really going to suit
         | your requirements, whether that's a consumer grade or
         | "professional grade" piece of equipment.
        
           | atoav wrote:
           | Film equipment is just like that. People ask where the
           | autofocus is on that 50k$ Arri-Zeiss combination and you
           | point at your focus puller loafing around with a coffee in
           | her hand.
           | 
           | Just made for a different kind of gig than your usual
           | consumer grade camera
        
           | megablast wrote:
           | > About 8 years ago I bought the cheapest
           | catering/professional microwave/combioven I could get my
           | hands on. I did this because I got tired of consumer units
           | with overcomplicated UIs designed (apparently) by
           | unregenerate misanthropes, rotating dishes that are a pain in
           | the ass to clean, overzealous bleeps that go off every 30 -
           | 60 seconds after a cycle is finished, peeling enamel,
           | corrosion issues, and that are too small on the inside.
           | 
           | See, this is weird. The cheapest microwaves you can get have
           | two dials, one for temp, one for time. Why not buy one of
           | those??
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | BurningFrog wrote:
         | Often the hobbyist and professional tool is just as good,
         | except that the pro tool will last 10x longer.
        
         | neilpanchal wrote:
         | I kinda disagree. These aren't very good examples. Also the
         | dough mixer is for restaurants, not military use. :-) Although
         | I want one now.
         | 
         | Here is a kitchen scale I bought. Made in Switzerland, no less.
         | It's bloody beautiful: https://neil.computer/notes/mettler-
         | toledo-ml3002e-teardown/
         | 
         | Does that mean all consumer grade stuff is bad? No. Leatherman
         | tools and 3M consumer grade stuff is usually great. Nalgene
         | bottles. Does that mean all pro quality stuff is great? No.
         | I've bought restaurant quality containers, made in California,
         | no less, but are not BPA-free.
         | 
         | My philosophy is quite tangential to the points you're making:
         | 
         | - Search for stuff in auxiliary / parallel industries.
         | 
         | - Used surplus stuff is usually below consumer grade prices
         | _even if it was slightly worse_ , 9/10 times its is 10x the
         | quality, performance and durability of consumer grade crap on
         | Amazon.
         | 
         | - Some cheap crap is actually good. Victorinox $30 knife is
         | _excellent_ value and used by professional chefs.
         | 
         | There are atleast 100 more examples I can write about that were
         | a net positive buys. Just last week I bought U-Line tape
         | dispenser. Same price as consumer grade ones, so why not?
         | 
         | - Orthogonal search usually yields frugal jackpots. No one
         | would ever find any use for the life raft bag in the marine
         | parts store.
         | 
         | Average consumers want stuff that is objectively worse for
         | them. Touchscreens were an excellent idea for a phone, now they
         | want it everywhere in their cars. Overall, with the throw-away
         | culture consumers are addicted to, it's hard to not blame them.
         | Have you ever dealt with customer service? You might be
         | surprised. _We are soooo addicted to wasteful culture_. You're
         | just promoting this and doubling down on it.
         | 
         | Let's see in last 20 years: Quality went downhill, durability
         | is an after thought, repairability is non existent and
         | consumers want bigger box - literally larger than the item
         | because they choose it based on how good the box looks. If it
         | were any other reason, it's a waste of packaging and businesses
         | know this.
         | 
         | Anyways, I fancy things that are engineered with deliberation
         | and specification. Tested and qualified against requirements.
         | Usually military or medical grade goods are designed and
         | engineered in such a way.
        
         | jasonwatkinspdx wrote:
         | You're spot on. I've dated several chefs, and the reality is
         | that "professional grade" in consumer kitchen devices is
         | basically all a fantasy/farce. Real commercial equipment is
         | generally a huge PITA. It's quite capable stuff, but you don't
         | need those capabilities at home, and everything else about them
         | makes them a net negative, in nearly every case.
         | 
         | The other obnoxious thing is most of what's marketed as
         | "professional grade" to consumers is junk that no commercial
         | kitchen would use. It's just marketing.
         | 
         | You can get some interesting specific stuff on say
         | webrestaraunt store, but you gotta be mindful of the above
         | aspects imo.
        
           | jiofih wrote:
           | > "professional grade" in consumer kitchen devices is
           | basically all a fantasy/farce
           | 
           | That is not what the article is about though. He buys actual
           | commercial / industrial stuff that is indeed more rugged.
        
             | jasonwatkinspdx wrote:
             | I understand that, I was talking about a parallel aspect.
        
       | stakkur wrote:
       | A note about the 'Ka-Bar' knife, since I've both been in the
       | Marine Corps and am into knives: the military doesn't use it. In
       | the real world, if you want a knife in the service, you typically
       | buy it yourself.
       | 
       | Does the USMC still use 'bayonets'? Yes, in certain circumstances
       | they're issued--but it's not common, and it's not the Ka-Bar,
       | it's another brand (I forget which one).
       | 
       | TL;DR: Ka-Bar 'USMC knives' are a marketing gimmick.
        
         | tomcam wrote:
         | Please tell me you have a blog, and if so, its URL.
        
         | JoeyBananas wrote:
         | A brand new Leatherman multitool costs less than 100$. For that
         | price you get a knife, a serrated blade, a pair of pliers/wire
         | cutters and some other stuff that absolutely comes in handy in
         | the real world. It's not as good for fixing to the end of a
         | rifle and stabbing someone, but for every other real world
         | situation it's better.
        
         | jeffreyrogers wrote:
         | I think this is due to the reliability of rifles now though?
        
           | Ekaros wrote:
           | Trench warfare and massed charges really aren't much of a
           | thing any more. And if you really end up in close quarter
           | combat it's much better to retreat and do something else.
        
             | JoeyBananas wrote:
             | As a weapon, the bayonett is absolutely not obsolete. It
             | may be the only weapon available to a soldier after they
             | run out of ammo. There are infinitely many conceivable
             | situations where retreat is not an option.
        
       | cmckn wrote:
       | I have to: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RbhcRKsRwFM
        
       | aledalgrande wrote:
       | Love how extra the choices are XD All OP/level 99 items!
        
       | arpa wrote:
       | "Military grade" has very different connotations if you have been
       | in the service. So yeah, great conversation starter, interesting
       | worldview; can't say I share it though.
        
         | dkdbejwi383 wrote:
         | Military grade = the cheapest product that meets the spec.
        
           | user3939382 wrote:
           | Just to offer a counterexample, I have a Cammenga 3H compass
           | that I use for camping. The thing is a beast, one of the
           | coolest things I own.
        
             | SavantIdiot wrote:
             | Are you teasing us: do you actually use a compass camping?
             | I've never met someone (who wasn't a Boy Scout) that camps
             | so hard they need a compass! (Said in a joking yet
             | genuinely curious voice.)
        
               | seoaeu wrote:
               | If you are going into the wilderness, you should really
               | check a map beforehand. At very least, figure out which
               | cardinal direction you can go to get back to
               | civilization. Even just knowing "walk west and eventually
               | you'll hit a highway" greatly improves your odds if you
               | get very lost.
        
               | SavantIdiot wrote:
               | Funny you mention that. Last year in Oregon a man stepped
               | off the trail near a place called the Gorge while hiking
               | too close to sunset, its is a huge wilderness north of
               | the 26. People kept saying: dude, if you just went south
               | you'd hit the freeway, but apparently he tried that and
               | there were unscalable hills/cliff faces/vegetation for
               | dozens of miles that when he followed them for a place to
               | descend got him even more lost! Beyond me why someone
               | would go off trail, or even start hike that late in the
               | day!
        
               | seoaeu wrote:
               | Yeah... in hindsight checking for impassible cliffs would
               | have been a smart move too
        
               | cecilpl2 wrote:
               | Anyone who does any backcountry camping should have a map
               | and compass and know how to use them.
        
               | DrPhish wrote:
               | and the first thing to know when bringing a map and
               | compass into the backcountry is that if you didn't use
               | them (properly!) to get in, it'll be hard-to-impossible
               | to use them to get you back out. There's more to it than
               | you think!
               | 
               | Orienteering is a deep enough subject to be a tool, hobby
               | and sport. Recommended skill, just for the entertainment
               | value
        
               | aYsY4dDQ2NrcNzA wrote:
               | Try to aim for a spot somewhat left or right of your
               | destination, so that when you arrive you know which side
               | to begin your search.
        
               | [deleted]
        
           | enchiridion wrote:
           | That's always the line. The left out part is how rigorous the
           | spec is.
        
             | killjoywashere wrote:
             | Problem with the spec is often that the military "needs a
             | car". But the specification process forces them to design
             | all the parameters, and they end up with a very rigorous
             | spec for "Toyota Camry, no A/C, coyote brown, steel wheels"
             | which adds up to 800 pages and a product that even Toyota
             | can't produce for less than $250k/unit. Meanwhile, by the
             | time they've written the spec, the CyberTruck has been
             | designed, marketed, produced, and iterated, and exceeds the
             | spec in every meaningful dimension. The military has
             | required an entirely US-based supply chain that will
             | sustain their vehicle for the next 30 years, but accepts
             | that it's entirely reasonable, in that circumstance, that
             | each washer (Type 304 stainless, O.D. +/- 0.00001 inch) is
             | $47.82/unit.
        
               | orangefox wrote:
               | The cybertruck won't meet milspec because it runs solely
               | on battery power. A military vehicle needs to be able to
               | run in expeditionary environments with the ability to
               | store and carry extra fuel for long range operations and
               | refuel quickly. Neither one of those requirements can be
               | met by a battery vehicle.
        
               | Nition wrote:
               | It's just a couple of made-up examples to illustrate a
               | possible scenario; I'm sure the military didn't really
               | ask for a Toyota Camry either.
               | 
               | This does bring up a different issue though, which is
               | that any time someone uses a hypothetical example to
               | illustrate a point on the Internet, responses end up
               | picking apart the example instead of the point itself.
        
               | ianmcgowan wrote:
               | That's a really interesting point that explains the $600
               | hammer urban myths - the military has a ton of
               | constraints in their specs that are defendable, but
               | result in much higher costs than equivalent consumer
               | spec.
        
             | zokier wrote:
             | Well, at least there is a spec, unlike many consumer goods
             | that are just cheapest product no spec.
        
               | mcguire wrote:
               | This is my periodic comment reminding everyone who has to
               | support more than one computer to not buy the consumer
               | versions from Dell, HP, whatever. They're built from
               | whatever was in the parts bin today. No two of them will
               | be the same.
        
           | cosmojg wrote:
           | On the bright side, there's a spec.
        
           | mnd999 wrote:
           | Sure, but the spec usually says things like "Can be dropped
           | 6ft onto concrete".
        
             | Symbiote wrote:
             | Just buy a toy tested according to European Union
             | standards, and labelled with the "CE" mark.
             | 
             | > Drop the toy, or the relevant toy component, five times
             | through a height of (850 +- 50) mm on to a 4 mm thick steel
             | plate with a 2 mm thick coating of Shore A hardness (75 +-
             | 5) as measured according to EN ISO 868 or ISO 7619-2 and
             | which is placed on a non-flexible horizontal surface.
             | 
             | > Prior to release, orientate the toy in a position that
             | allows the most onerous impact onto the coated surface of
             | the steel plate.
             | 
             | (850mm is 23/4 ft.)
             | 
             | More seriously, I think some of these regulations do
             | prevent the lowest-quality stuff you might find in the USA
             | being legally sold in the EU.
             | 
             | https://law.resource.org/pub/eu/toys/en.71.1.2014.html#s8.5
        
           | Grustaf wrote:
           | I don't know about the US army, but in Sweden military grade
           | means "extremely basic, works forever and can be operated by
           | an idiot".
        
           | iratewizard wrote:
           | Trijicon scopes were top dog for a very long time and to this
           | day are still fantastic hardware. They're just one of many
           | examples where the supplier cares about the product and it's
           | reflected in the quality.
        
           | spaetzleesser wrote:
           | From my experience "military grade" means grossly overpriced
           | and based on a spec that's often detached from reality.
        
         | ok123456 wrote:
         | "Military grade" means it will break.
        
       | dehrmann wrote:
       | > I want a Martin Baker ejection seat as a chair in my living
       | room
       | 
       | I get the draw, but comfort in these seats is mixed. You should
       | be able to sit in them for a few hours, but remember that the
       | foam is dense enough to handle 7Gs.
        
         | LanceH wrote:
         | I heard someone make the comfort argument, saying a toilet seat
         | would be ideal.
        
       | SavantIdiot wrote:
       | I could get behind some of these. Like that Hobart mixer.
       | Granted, I don't use a mixer 24/7 in a bakery, but my first
       | Kitchen Aid overheated and broke after ~5 years.
       | 
       | I'd prefer if commodity things, like computer mice, were made to
       | last, and not $5 pieces of cheap plastic that end up in
       | landfills. But I'm the person who complains about the tons of
       | cheap plastic trash sold in 0.99 stores while able to afford $500
       | mixers.
       | 
       | I wish there was a happy medium, where society didn't demand
       | China produce plastic stuff that turns into trash within a month,
       | destroying the environment exponentially.
        
         | joezydeco wrote:
         | Commercial kitchen equipment isn't always set up for 120V
         | single phase operation.
         | 
         | If you really want to rewire your house to mix 20 gallons of
         | dough at a time...go for it I suppose. But do the homework
         | first.
        
           | NegativeLatency wrote:
           | Sure some of it is but certainly not all of it. Also there
           | are reasonably sized mixers like GP said
        
             | joezydeco wrote:
             | Oh, sorry. The point of the article was 'overkill'. It's
             | really 'just heavier duty'.
        
           | bob1029 wrote:
           | > If you really want to rewire your house to mix 20 gallons
           | of dough at a time...go for it I suppose. But do the homework
           | first.
           | 
           | You could get a 3 phase commercial standby genset installed
           | and have the remote annunciator for it mounted next to
           | whatever monster 3 phase stand mixer in your kitchen. All in
           | all this would run you ~50K USD.
           | 
           | Every day people spend far more money on way stupider
           | bullshit than what I just proposed.
        
         | dredmorbius wrote:
         | NB: KitchenAid _is_ Hobart.
         | 
         | I immediately recognised the design from the pictured mixer.
         | Turns out they are the same company, different branding. Now
         | owned by Whirlpool.
         | 
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KitchenAid
         | 
         | TIL, FWIW.
        
         | scrooched_moose wrote:
         | At least things things like Kitchenaid mixers are easily
         | fixable if you still have it. Ours recently died after about 8
         | years, and it was a pretty quick turn around from model number
         | > spec sheet > motor number > $80 replacement. The actual swap
         | took less than 15 minutes with nothing more than a phillips
         | screwdriver.
         | 
         | I did the same with our microwave when the door close sensors
         | failed. The internet has made fixing things infinitely easier,
         | as spec sheets and part suppliers are available to everyone.
        
           | Cyril_HN wrote:
           | Yeah, Kitchen Aid is all hand made still AFAIK. So, it should
           | be easy to fix, too.
        
           | [deleted]
        
         | floil wrote:
         | Both the KitchenAid and the Hobart use a planetary action which
         | is not the best for kneading bread. A better idea is to find a
         | small spiral mixer where the bowl rotates and the mixer blade
         | spins in place. I have a Haussler Alpha and it's great for
         | tough doughs, and seems appropriately overbuilt.
        
         | Grustaf wrote:
         | Many people have been known to use these Electrolux mixers for
         | decades, I have one that's 30 years old, working perfectly.
         | 
         | https://www.electrolux.dk/kitchen/small-kitchen-appliances/k...
        
       | neonological wrote:
       | Consumer grade products are deliberately designed to fail.
       | 
       | This is why: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5v8D-alAKE&t=833s
       | 
       | If you're older, like really old, you can actually remember a
       | time where products were of a much much higher durability before
       | the industry figured out that low durability products were more
       | profitable.
       | 
       | So in actuality some of the suggestions on that site aren't
       | necessarily overkill as industrial products aren't deliberately
       | engineered to fail.
        
         | kube-system wrote:
         | "Engineered to fail" and "planned obsolescence" are both
         | pejorative rephrasings of "consumers prioritize price"
         | 
         | Engineering is an exercise in prioritization. If 90% of
         | consumers buy the cheapest blender on the shelf, the blender
         | made with the cheapest materials wins. Hobart still exists, and
         | still makes good blenders. Consumers just started buying new
         | designs that were more cost efficient.
         | 
         | If you look at the prices of mid twentieth century appliances
         | in some old periodicals, and adjust for inflation, they're
         | about the price of commercial appliances today.
         | 
         | Before value-engineering, people didn't have a kitchen full of
         | appliances, they went without.
         | 
         | Value engineering is often criticized, but the plain truth is
         | that it is primarily responsible for the high standards of
         | living we enjoy today.
        
           | neonological wrote:
           | Did you watch the video? It's not just about cheap materials.
           | It's literal design decisions made for the express reason so
           | that the product will fail.
           | 
           | The iphone not having a replaceable battery is a design
           | decision, it doesn't make the phone cheaper.
           | 
           | You are taking two independent phenomenons and trying to
           | group them together as if they are the same phenomenon. Yes
           | making a product cheaper has the side effect of reducing its'
           | lifetime but the video and what I'm talking about is DIRECT
           | engineering decisions for the purpose of shortening lifetimes
           | NOT making things cheaper.
           | 
           | You obviously didn't watch the video.
        
           | convolvatron wrote:
           | the shop vac pro i bought had a one-time current fuse
           | soldered down (not replacable with a holder). over time all
           | of these machines get a little friction in the fan assembly
           | and blow this fuse.
           | 
           | yes, you could argue that making this fuse replaceable would
           | add $0.05, but we all know that its not because 99% of the
           | purchasers wont crack it open, figure out whats going on, and
           | short the fuse.
           | 
           | you can argue that by keeping the volume up shop vac can
           | lower prices. but i dont think you can argue that efficiency
           | has been gained.
        
             | yarcob wrote:
             | If that fuse blows, does swapping it help? Wouldn't the
             | blown fuse typically mean the fan bearings are broken and a
             | new fuse would just blow soon again?
        
               | convolvatron wrote:
               | i my case I shorted it and have been using the vacuum for
               | another 10 years. there was dust in the fan bearings, but
               | i sluiced it out with mineral oil.
        
             | kube-system wrote:
             | The 1% of people who try to fix their shop vac are probably
             | the same 1% who are comfortable using a soldering iron.
             | Reducing part count is value engineering 101.
             | 
             | The number of consumers who buy a shop vac based on whether
             | it has a socketed fuse is negligible. It's simply a feature
             | with zero commercial value. It's all cost with zero
             | benefit.
        
               | TeMPOraL wrote:
               | > _It's all cost with zero benefit._
               | 
               | Only because a good chunk of the true costs are
               | externalized. If the vendor would have to pay for
               | disposal of their product, suddenly that socketed fuse
               | would become a cost-cutting measure.
        
               | neonological wrote:
               | The cost is negligible, mere cents. A decision such as
               | this is indeed done to deliberately shorten the life
               | span.
        
           | Grustaf wrote:
           | > "Engineered to fail" and "planned obsolescence" are both
           | pejorative rephrasings of "consumers prioritize price"
           | 
           | Yes, and prioritizing price is short term and stupid.
           | Prioritize total cost instead and buy high quality items,
           | it's much cheaper in the long run.
           | 
           | Also, high standard of living is not about having your
           | kitchen "full of appliances", it's about health, education
           | and security.
        
           | gregmac wrote:
           | The ironic part of that is that often people will end up
           | spending _more_ on crappy stuff, as they end up buying
           | several {thing} over the time period one more expensive one
           | would have lasted. This is also an example of why it 's
           | expensive to be poor.
           | 
           | I did this with office chairs. I was buying a new mediocre
           | chair every few years before finally buying a Herman Miller
           | several years ago. It was expensive compared to anything else
           | I'd owned, but (1) it's an order-of-magnitude better chair,
           | and (2) I had probably spent about the same money on several
           | crappier chairs over the prior decade. I am still sitting in
           | this chair now, and it's still just as good as the day I
           | bought it.
        
             | kube-system wrote:
             | It depends on duty cycle.
             | 
             | If you're often using a computer chair (as many of us _do_
             | use in a commercial setting), you probably legitimately
             | need a chair with a high duty cycle.
             | 
             | Meanwhile, I have a $7 toaster that's 10 years old. I don't
             | make toast very often. Even if my toaster fails today, a
             | low-end commercial toaster wouldn't pay itself off over my
             | lifetime.
             | 
             | Poor people also have alternatives. Much of the world
             | doesn't worry about the repair bills for their clothes
             | dryer or their dishwasher, because they hang their clothes
             | on a line and wash their dishes in a basin.
        
             | teddyh wrote:
             | A.k.a. "Vimes' Boots"
        
           | Sebb767 wrote:
           | > "Engineered to fail" and "planned obsolescence" are both
           | pejorative rephrasings of "consumers prioritize price"
           | 
           | No. Of course, a part of potential lifetime loss is due to
           | price. Manufacturing a case in plastic instead of carbon
           | fiber is simply far cheaper and most consumer will go for
           | that. However, we see cheaped out components even in high-
           | priced or prosumer gear, while the existence of this market
           | already pretty much proves that price is _not_ everything to
           | every consumer. Additionally, there are many examples of
           | behaviors that save no money or are actually more expensive,
           | but help the bottom line by forcing people to buy new (see
           | the Phoebus cartell [0] or the slowing down of older iPhones
           | by Apple).
           | 
           | [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoebus_cartel
        
             | kube-system wrote:
             | Yes, true planned obsolescence has happened. But it's a lot
             | less common than people think, and often prohibited by law.
             | 
             | Even the "slowing down of old iPhones" is an example of
             | that. This was a bug fix for crashing due to current demand
             | that exceeded the battery's capability.
        
           | Jiro wrote:
           | Something "engineered to fail" may be cheaper because
           | materials that don't last so long are cheaper.
           | 
           | But it's also possible that the material isn't cheaper at
           | all, but the manufaturer gains because if the part wears out
           | sooner they can sell a replacement sooner. That isn't a case
           | of "consumers prioritize price".
           | 
           | For instance, manufacturers have tried to sell printers which
           | refuse to print when there is still quite a bit of ink left
           | in the cartridge. Printers which refuse to let you use all
           | the ink are engineered to fail, but they aren't cheaper than
           | printers that do let you use all the ink. The manufacturer is
           | relying on the fact that obtaining good information is
           | costly; testing printers to rigorously prove this takes
           | resources, and even when it gets discovered, many consumers
           | won't know that the printer is doing this, so they won't use
           | that information in comparing otherwise similar-looking
           | printers.
        
       | Arubis wrote:
       | Non-professional customers know this, to an approximation. And
       | marketers know that those customers know that. Hence the both the
       | "prosumer" market and the conflation of premium and luxury
       | product lines: "We Are Professional Grade" for expensive trucks,
       | "AirPods Pro" for a luxury product, the upcoming "Nintendo Switch
       | Pro", etc.
        
       | ftio wrote:
       | As an espresso enthusiast with a rather robust prosumer setup, I
       | considered 'overkill' commercial options, which are widely
       | available and roughly the same price (sometimes less, with work).
       | 
       | The overkill options...well, they're not made for home, which
       | actually makes them worse for home use cases. Sure, a La Marzocco
       | Linea can pull a thousand shots a day with extreme consistency
       | and temperature stability.
       | 
       | My Lelit Bianca can't keep up on volume, but it is smaller,
       | reaches operating temperature more quickly, and is temp stable
       | for the number of shots I pull even with a dozen people over for
       | a party. It uses a standard electrical plug, it has a consumer-
       | grade warranty, and it's relatively easy to maintain for a
       | regular Joe like me.
       | 
       | So sure, a commercial version of a thing might be more robust,
       | longer-lasting, etc., but what tradeoffs are you making to
       | achieve those characteristics?
        
         | defterGoose wrote:
         | | regular Joe
         | 
         | I see what you did there...
        
       | Yajirobe wrote:
       | > The average consumer is an idiot
       | 
       | Excuse me?
        
       | hyko wrote:
       | Buying an ejector seat for your living room is quite eccentric,
       | but I wouldn't really consider it _overkill_. It doesn't even
       | have arms.
        
         | swader999 wrote:
         | For my office at the company I work at it would be perfect.
        
           | tailspin2019 wrote:
           | Is your "office" an F-16 by any chance?
        
             | swader999 wrote:
             | No it is not. But sometimes I do wish to leave very
             | quickly.
        
       | swader999 wrote:
       | I went pro with my chainsaw and never regretted it.
        
       | birdyrooster wrote:
       | If this guy doesn't have sticky-surface mats entering his house I
       | will be upset.
        
       | nullc wrote:
       | We've used borosilicate lab glass (mostly beakers) at home for
       | over a decade. We're pretty happy with them.
        
       | SkyMarshal wrote:
       | Fyi, I have an industrial fan in my home similar to the one
       | listed at the end of the article [1]. Beware, they're loud as
       | hell and not really suited for indoors use. It sits dormant now.
       | 
       | I replaced it with a smaller Vornado [2]. Powerful, nearly silent
       | (can't hear the motor, only the blades), with a durable sealed-
       | bearing motor. Much better.
       | 
       | [1]:https://king-electric.com/products/high-velocity-air-
       | circula...
       | 
       | [2]:https://www.vornado.com/shop/circulators-fans/293-heavy-
       | duty...
        
         | m463 wrote:
         | I like vornado - with caveats.
         | 
         | If it's cold my HVAC would cycle and would get temperature
         | swings. I installed a vornado space heater and it worked
         | wonderfully. It had a continuous air flow and would keep the
         | temperature in the room very stable.
         | 
         | And then it wore out and I got a new model with electronic
         | controls, which didn't work so well. The original had
         | mechanical controls and were set and forget. I believe the
         | electronic model would reset after a power failure, and would
         | have a timer that would turn it off after using it for a while,
         | both non-features.
        
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