[HN Gopher] Yamaha MOTOROiD
___________________________________________________________________
Yamaha MOTOROiD
Author : susam
Score : 459 points
Date : 2021-05-29 06:56 UTC (16 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (global.yamaha-motor.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (global.yamaha-motor.com)
| IgorPartola wrote:
| This looks very different. What I like: bold design, articulating
| rear, battery compartment actually looks good.
|
| What I am curious about is how it actually rides. The photos and
| demos all look like they are out of a Boston Dynamics demo, less
| like they are for a bike you actually get on.
|
| What I don't like: this thing will be ugly as sin once you make
| it street legal. Also lack of fenders (which is how you avoid
| getting mud all over your legs and back).
|
| As a cruiser fan, I can appreciate fast nimble sport bikes, but
| also can't wait for someone to come up with an electric
| equivalent to the R18 or the Honda Rune.
| djtriptych wrote:
| As a former daily rider, I'm incredibly excited about this
| vision.
|
| I do wonder immediately about safety. In crashes, separation from
| the bike is almost always good for the rider. Being strapped in
| via the hip harness sounds incredibly dangerous.
|
| I wouldn't ride that faster than a SLOW walking speed in it's
| current iteration. I don't care how good the AI is. No surprise
| there are no demos of anyone riding this at speed.
| baybal2 wrote:
| I noticed, they use a hub motor on a swingarm.
|
| All hub motored bikes I rode have a very, very strong squat
| because of hub motor's huge torque.
|
| I don't see how they counter it here.
|
| I seen other EV motorcycles to counter it using parallelogram
| suspension setup: Kymco F9, Gogogro G1, Sunra Miku Max
| jacquesm wrote:
| That torque can be controlled by limiting the current though,
| it will still be plenty fast. You just ramp down the current as
| the squat increases.
| the_biot wrote:
| Yet another "concept" vehicle, concept meaning "will never be
| manufactured". This is just marketing bullshit. Why do people
| take this seriously?
| renewiltord wrote:
| Oh god, what a beautiful machine. I desire it greatly.
| bamboozled wrote:
| This is what makes Tesla kick ass, they sell their "concept
| cars". They make them available.
|
| This is just fluff.
|
| _"When MOTOROiD was revealed at the Tokyo Motor Show, it drew
| massive attention and was a prime topic of the show, but it also
| triggered something rather strange, especially since it is a
| concept model. People were already searching the internet to see
| how much it would cost; people were not just asking Yamaha
| directly, but internet forums had topics with users speculating
| over what the MOTOROiD's price would be. Show visitors were also
| saying things like, "I don't even have a license yet, but I'd
| definitely want to ride something like this,""_
| Opt_Out_Fed_IRS wrote:
| ouch! My butt hurts just looking at it.
| doodlebugging wrote:
| At least it doesn't have the upgrade that first crossed my mind
| when I read that the back wings were for a future HMI. I was
| immediately reminded of the recent articles on HN about the
| potential for oxygen absorption thru the anus. This led me to
| think that a more useful upgrade for an HMI might involve an
| anal probe connected to an on-board oxygen generator to feed
| oxygen to the rider to help them stay alert. It seems like it
| would be useful on long cross-country trips. The wings could be
| retained as part of a deployable crash cocoon to envelope the
| rider so that they are buffered from the impacts of collision.
|
| I did read in the comments that the range of this bike is
| probably pretty low so the functionality of the batteries would
| need to improve before this is practical for long-distance
| trips. In the absence of improved battery life, my upgrade
| would not be useful.
|
| It is probably good that I don't design and build things for a
| living. Some ideas are not worth pursuing.
|
| EDIT: I have thought of another advantage to the anal
| probe/oxygen generator. In the event of a non-fatal crash where
| the rider is injured but still has a heartbeat, the anal probe
| could function to supply continuous oxygen to the body
| preventing brain and organ damage as long as the oxygen
| generator functioned and the rider's heart was still beating.
| Hardening the oxygen generator should be important so that it
| is shielded from crash damage. This would also negate the need
| for resuscitation by mouth and in the event the rider's heart
| stopped, the anal probe could allow rescuers to focus on blood
| loss/circulation.
|
| With that in mind it should be self-contained and detachable so
| that it could travel in an ambulance without needing to be
| removed. That would also make it possible to become a discreet
| accessory that you would put on (in) before mounting the bike
| and you could just wear it concealed as you shop, refuel, etc.
|
| Maybe not such a hare-brained idea after all?
|
| I think I read too much.
| gabrielblack wrote:
| Mother of God, Yamaha take my money, please !
| allie1 wrote:
| I want one!
| LargoLasskhyfv wrote:
| Hmm. Self-balancing, image recognition...
|
| That bike looks like straight out of
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daemon_(novel_series)#Daemon
|
| Or the right tool for some 'Hiro Protagonist' to deliver Pizza
| through the snow of nuclear winter without crashing.
|
| Anyways, I APPROVE!
|
| Edit: What are the 2 banks of 3 cylinders where the ICE-
| motorblock would be? Supercapacitors?
| slver wrote:
| It looks like one of the reject prototypes from Robocop.
|
| And by this I mean it looks super-cool and it'll probably kill
| you.
| skohan wrote:
| Very eye-catching - reminds me of Akira.
|
| I assume those silver cylinders are battery cells? It would be
| interesting to see lithium ion cells being exposed like this as a
| design choice, like muscle cars sometimes expose part of the
| internal combustion engine as a way to center the power of the
| vehicle.
|
| Also based on the scope of this project, I assume that must be a
| known cell form-factor, but I had assumed most applications were
| using commodity 18650's unless otherwise constrained.
| javajosh wrote:
| The batteries (I assume) caught my eye too, mainly because they
| seem exposed in the event of a crash.
|
| If the two thick yellow cables going to the rear axle are any
| indication, the motor is tiny and in the axle - so, not much to
| see there. :)
| Animats wrote:
| It's neat to have all those powered degrees of freedom, but what
| problem does it solve?
|
| The BPG transforming bike [1] was a more promising direction. It
| could transform from a self-balancing Segway form for indoor and
| sidewalk use to a motorcycle form for roads. It looks like
| something from Transformers or the RideBack anime, but they got a
| prototype on the road. Now that had real potential. BPG never got
| that to to work well enough, and pivoted to another product, an
| off-road thing that runs on dual caterpillar tracks. Yamaha could
| probably make the BPG concept work. That would be a boon to
| delivery drivers everywhere.
|
| The proposed animal-like haptic interface is interesting. But
| what do you do with it on a two-wheeler? On a horse trained for
| it, you can do quite a few useful moves - turn on the forehand,
| turn on the hindquarters, full pass (sideways), half pass (moving
| partly sideways while facing forward). I've owned several horses,
| all of whom could do those things. One was an ex-police horse who
| had all that manuverability and more, and could work in tight
| spaces when necessary.
|
| Now, that's just listening to the rider. Cutting cows out of a
| herd (which I don't do) has the horse doing much of the driving.
| Watch [2]. The rider is in control in the early stages, getting
| the desired cow partially separated from the herd. But watch the
| part where the cow is trying to get past the horse. The horse is
| clearly in charge then.
|
| That cooperative giving control back and forth is common in
| riding. It takes quite a bit of training and practice for both
| horse and rider. Miscommunication can result in injuries. It's
| possible to build all that into a vehicle; the control system for
| the F-15 fighter-bomber is notable for doing quite a bit by
| itself, with the pilot indicating what they want to happen and
| the control system figuring out how to do it, using the
| aircraft's many control surfaces. That takes a lot of pilot
| training to use properly.
|
| Maybe if both wheels of the bike were steerable, it could do
| more. The new electric Hummer has four-wheel steering and can
| crab at low speeds.
|
| [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=odI4WaYEcCU
|
| [2] https://youtu.be/nCRzUjn4I7I
| salmo wrote:
| I think it's wonderful to see "pure R&D" these days. The days
| of Bell Labs, Xerox PARC, etc. are gone. Even NASA is so much
| more restrained.
|
| Focus on practicality leads to incremental change. But free
| research and aspirational (maybe impractical) goals are what
| brought us the revolutionary technology we rely on today.
|
| This is as kooky as Doug Englebart's team's work was at the
| time, and similar in the focus on the human/machine interface.
| Some aspect or later interpretation may stick just like
| Augment's ripples through the industry.
|
| Startups can't do it. It takes large organizations to maintain
| the resources for long-term benefit like this. So I commend
| Yamaha for putting the cash into an impractical effort. I hope
| they keep it going. My kids may get something revolutionary out
| of it.
| gaara87 wrote:
| Shut up and take my money
| vr46 wrote:
| The last Yamaha I had tried to kill me constantly, it was
| brilliant.
|
| My modern BMW is the opposite, but this Yamaha looks like a T1000
| on a mission to kill me again.
| protoman3000 wrote:
| The design gives me some serious Horizon Zero Dawn vibes.
| jp0d wrote:
| Big Yamaha fan here. Learnt riding a motorcycle on one of their
| old 2 stroke models when I was 11 years old! Have been thinking
| about buying an MT3 for casual riding. This is so futuristic. I'm
| sure it needs a lot more testing before public release. Even
| though I'll not be buying one when it's available, it's just too
| beautiful to ignore!
| romanr wrote:
| If it can balance, it can self-drive! Westworld bike.
| stonogo wrote:
| This concept was produced in 2017. There hasn't been any news
| about it since. BMW in 2017 had a similar self-balancing concept
| bike with some kind of AR goggle HUD.
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NXMGi9kQ3TE Also vanished. Honda
| had one too, also 2017.
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hLZ6U71y700 Vanished.
| ragazzina wrote:
| How do you pronounce it? The name sounds dangerously similar to
| MOTOrrhoids - at least in my language.
| patrickcteng wrote:
| I want one.
| StavrosK wrote:
| Oh man, this looks cool but the writing took me right out of the
| announcement. I don't usually notice bad writing, but this prose
| seems purpler than usual.
| tkgally wrote:
| It's a translation of the Japanese at [1].
|
| The original text is reasonable as Japanese advertising copy,
| but advertising copy usually shouldn't be translated. Instead,
| it should be written anew in each target language, sometimes
| with different content and graphics.
|
| I worked freelance for twenty years translating Japanese to
| English, often advertising copy like this. Though I did my
| best, I was rarely satisfied with the result unless I was able
| to work closely with the Japanese client and write something
| original in English that met their needs and was appropriate
| for the target audience. Most clients didn't have enough time,
| money, or awareness of the drawbacks of direct translation to
| make that possible.
|
| [1] https://global.yamaha-
| motor.com/jp/design_technology/design/...
| doodlebugging wrote:
| I enjoyed the story behind the bike. I found it engaging and
| I feel like the photos enhanced the story. As I read through
| it I was pretty impressed that an article like this, maybe
| first composed in Japanese, had such a smooth translation
| into English. I wondered whether it began as an English
| audience article.
|
| I was amused to find in one of the pictures a misspelled
| word. I didn't laugh but I did crack a smile. The trash can/
| recycle bin in the cartoon encourages the viewer to "Picth
| In".
|
| Cool bike, great story. I hope they iron out the issues that
| they find and this bike makes it onto streets everywhere.
|
| I love how the Japanese people in the video linked on one
| post seem so accustomed to seeing cool stuff like this. I
| wish the guys at Yamaha all the success.
| StavrosK wrote:
| Ahh, that makes sense. Yes, unfortunately there's too much
| cultural context in advertising copy for it to translate even
| loosely.
| jcims wrote:
| Lots of pearl clutching in here lol.
| goldenchrome wrote:
| No kidding, but does it surprise you that nerds don't like loud
| sounds?
| fnord77 wrote:
| At least one of their recent motorcycles don't look too
| different. Looking forward to an electric powerplant though
|
| https://www.motorcycle.com/manufacturer/yamaha/2022-yamaha-y...
| kemitchell wrote:
| I was really hoping this was going to be Yamaha announcing the
| first affordable, full-size e-bike, the Tesla 3 of two-wheelers.
| I guess we're still in the high performance slash high tech
| phase.
| illegalmemory wrote:
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Lx0ZJGgsFs
|
| Here is a video demonstration,
| ece wrote:
| I wonder why it didn't make it to production, at least the self
| balancing and electric parts of it.
| hbbio wrote:
| From 2018!
| ur-whale wrote:
| Beautiful thang, straight out of Akira.
| adreamingsoul wrote:
| This is awesome.
| tomcooks wrote:
| Woah, cpunk as fuark
|
| Good luck getting that approved for street use in the EU but what
| a beauty.
|
| I wish there were driving videos available, I'll patiently wait
| bserge wrote:
| What's the problem with getting it approved?
| Rexxar wrote:
| Absolutely no problem but lots of people like to trash talk
| on EU for no reason at every occasion they have.
| bserge wrote:
| I want to convert my bike to electric, so I've been looking
| into the legal stuff. Doesn't seem like there's any
| obstacles so far. And there's plenty of electric cars
| around, I'm thinking a motorcycle would be the same, but
| I'm not 100% sure.
|
| Also thinking of starting a local business on this,
| surprisingly no one else is doing it, so there's got to be
| a catch somewhere.
|
| E-bikes sell for 2400+ Euros, how is that even possible. A
| good one could be built for ~1000-1500 at most, which still
| leaves enough room for a lower price _and_ a profit from
| the (little tbf) research I 've done.
| tomcooks wrote:
| Also some people have custom made Vespas like I do and to
| get it approved by the EU as a vehicle I have to export it
| to Switzerland and then reimport it to my country, but keep
| on letting your imagination run wild
| Rexxar wrote:
| Vehicle are approved by each country, not by EU. EU make
| that validation in one country is accepted in all country
| of the union and other countries that have a treaty with
| the union (Switzerland in this case). So you are blaming
| EU for the failure of the country you are in whereas it's
| the EU rule that have allowed you to get it in another
| country.
|
| EU has help you to get what you need and for some reason
| you find a way to blame it.
|
| If there was no EU, you would need to have one validation
| per country.
| ryan-allen wrote:
| Their petrol motorbikes are absolutely wonderful machines, I
| can't wait for their transition into electric!
| xgbi wrote:
| I'm not so sure, the engines are great but they cheap out on
| suspensions lately.
|
| I had an MT09 Tracer that was wobbly as f. in curves and on
| stright lines at high speed. The rear shock was just too
| loose. Same for the MT07 since 2014.
| jk7tarYZAQNpTQa wrote:
| I've heard a lot of complaints about the wobbly MT09 Tracer
| at high (>160km/h) speeds. I've also heard it was only on
| the first models, and due to the hand guards having bad
| aerodynamics. AFAIK it's solvable with aftermarket (or no)
| hand guards.
| squarefoot wrote:
| I've had both Yamaha and Honda motorcycles in the past, and
| all of them had extremely poor suspensions. My Honda
| XLV1000 fell multiple times from the stand because how soft
| the suspension became after only 6 months even after tuning
| it for maximum force. I'm surely a contributing factor for
| being overweight, but they should be anyway approved for 2
| people, and swapping the suspensions with aftermarket
| quality ones always solves the problem. Looks like many
| Japanese made bikes share this problem; they're fantastic,
| but their suspension system is definitely not on par.
| erikbye wrote:
| Try MT09 SP.
| imvetri wrote:
| Brrrrm brrrrm engine effect is more fun that ssssp sssssp
| engines.
| gooseyard wrote:
| I feel like I'd get speared in the kidneys by the weird tail
| shroud thing in a rear-ender, although it probably wouldn't
| happen since I don't think I could wedge my bulk into that space
| to begin with :)
| vishnugupta wrote:
| Terrific looking bike.
|
| But
|
| > "MOTOROiD, stand up!"
|
| Why do we have to shove the voice assist in every conceivable
| gadget adding _yet another_ point of failure :-|
| genericone wrote:
| Allow me to present to you Optimus Prime with voice controls:
|
| https://youtu.be/JmlQSegO5pM Somewhere in there, the results of
| "Autobots roll out" is extremely satisfying.
| nailer wrote:
| Has anyone read Daemon / Freedom by Suarez?
|
| There's a part where a compound filled with armed guards are
| assaulted by driverless motorbikes wielding swords.
| codezero wrote:
| I'm waiting for my logicoma
| 14 wrote:
| My friend bought a Zero electric motorcycle. A lot of fun and
| definitely has zip. Very quiet and makes almost no noise. He can
| hit a top speed of about 140km/hr but can not stay at that speed
| a long time due to battery overheat. It has a range of about 90km
| but their are bigger battery packs available for a price. The
| charging is slow and takes about 10hrs but again for a price you
| can pick up a fast charger which cuts down charge time greatly.
| Yes it is a fun bike but ultimately the range and speed ability
| plays a factor in usefulness of the bike. When I ride with him I
| constantly have to make sure I don't take off ahead or lose him.
| Also with a range of 90km you really can't go far. A trip out to
| the lake 30km away becomes sketchy if there is no power source
| out there to charge.
|
| For me a good electric bike would have a range of at least 200km
| and include any fast charging with the base model.
| JustSomeNobody wrote:
| Why would one want to be pinned into the seat that way? Seems
| very dangerous during an accident, however, I must admit I'm not
| a rider so, I could be wrong.
| alexander_gold wrote:
| What about jetskis ? https://superflyjetskis.shop
| CraigJPerry wrote:
| I can't wait for electric motorbikes to be more diverse and
| advanced.
|
| I used to be a "my loud exhaust helps me to be seen" kinda guy.
| Until one day, sat in standstill traffic in my car on the M74
| motorway just outside Glasgow, a rider on a BMW S1000XR, with the
| same loud exhaust as on mine, filtered past the window and I
| didn't hear him until he was level with my rear passenger door.
|
| Exhausts sound great, i love the sound of a nice engine, it's
| utterly intoxicating but it turns out that modern insulated cars
| block out the noise too well to make them useful as an awareness
| tool.
|
| So, i'm fine with a silent electric bike from a safety point of
| view. The exhaust noise was a false comfort blanket that deserves
| no faith put in it as a device to be better seen on the road.
| jacobolus wrote:
| > _Exhausts sound great, i love the sound of a nice engine,
| it's utterly intoxicating_
|
| Loud motorcycle engines are the sound of the world's hugest
| assholes making their giant fart in the public's face.
| erikbye wrote:
| I think the only asshole here is you. You can enjoy riding HD
| without being an asshole. Big engines are loud, they need to
| breathe. People like you are the ones who promote cancel
| culture. Anything that is of slight annoyance to you must be
| banned. No tolerance.
| dorchadas wrote:
| Right up there with truck ones. We got one who drives by our
| house every night at around 9:30 and it's so freaking loud
| the windows shake.
| layoutIfNeeded wrote:
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ylhsbfQTPDQ
| sgt wrote:
| I have two motorcycles, a BMW R1200GS with an Akrapovic slip-on
| exhaust which sounds fantastic but isn't particularly loud. It
| came with the bike new from BMW so I think that is the reason.
| The second bike I have is a fire breathing KTM 300 two-stroke
| enduro which not only sounds loud but also probably pollutes
| like like a truck. If I ride it directly from my house I
| sometimes just freewheel the first 50-100 m down the hill
| before I start it. It's a bit embarrassing and I wish it would
| be a bit quieter. I'm looking into a FMF pipe that is quieter.
| Negitivefrags wrote:
| > "my loud exhaust helps me to be seen"
|
| People are very good at justifying thier anti-social behaviour
| to themselves.
| hellbannedguy wrote:
| There are scumbags out their whom will drop ball bearings out
| there vechicle on bikers they don't like.
|
| I friend whom told me about two incidents.
|
| I will never understand that behavior. In my life, the loud
| sound of a bike is my least concern.
|
| Plus, in my passive aggressive wealthy county, a loud bike is
| a F---you to my phony liberal hypocritical neighbors.
| NikolaNovak wrote:
| A loud bike has the benefit of being a giant "f you, I'm an
| antisocial idiot" to pretty much all the innocent
| passerbies, race colour gender political affiliation OS
| preference aside :). It shows to others exactly what your
| post does so succinctly.
| ianai wrote:
| You should be treating people like people-not limited terms
| like "liberal", "conservative", or anything else. People
| are people. Ends unto themselves. Not means to an end, such
| as whatever calling someone liberal allows you to do and
| feel.
| EE84M3i wrote:
| That was my interpretation at first too, but their anecdote
| about being heard from inside a car leads me to believe
| they're talking about cars seeing/hearing them on the road
| for safety reasons.
| tartoran wrote:
| Is that the reason they rev up their engines to the
| breaking point while standing in traffic?
| FlyingSaucer wrote:
| That's the biggest annoyance in my eyes. As a
| motorcyclist, i think its ok for the engine to make some
| noise (not counting the obnoxious cruisers or bike with
| some aftermarket exhausts), but there is truly no reason
| to rev up hard while sitting in traffic or in a slow
| central streets.
| [deleted]
| eric_h wrote:
| Had a similar experience the other day on the highway. Traffic
| was doing ~85mph so I was too and got passed on both sides
| within inches of my side mirrors by a group of 8 or so people
| on racing bikes with loud exhausts doing at least 100mph. I
| didn't hear them/notice them until they were basically in my
| blind spots, it was very unsettling.
|
| I also suspect that the bulk of exhaust noise is projected to
| the rear of the vehicle anyway, which makes it not especially
| useful as a "safety" feature if you are unsafely driving
| considerably faster than and weaving through traffic.
| detritus wrote:
| Thank Goodness for your change of heart.
|
| Personally I am in favour of the judicious and summary
| execution of the death penalty for people who ride incredibly
| loud motorbikes in built up and residential environments... .
| greyhound wrote:
| Also, the "utterly intoxicating" sound is often forced onto
| others without their consent. Like playing your music through a
| loudspeaker in a public place.
|
| So yeah, go electric!
| Aachen wrote:
| > Like playing your music through a loudspeaker in a public
| place.
|
| You're in luck, that's exactly what electric cars will do
| instead of being quiet!
| goldenkey wrote:
| Some of them have a sound so that pedestrians can hear them
| coming. It isn't ridiculously loud - and if you wanted to
| silence it, you could easily make some modifications. I
| doubt silencing an EV would be legal though.
| marmaduke wrote:
| It's a scifi low drone noise though, just enough to notice,
| it's not annoying at all.
| Aachen wrote:
| Re-reading my comment, I see how this can come across.
| I'm actually fully in favor of having these speakers.
| Even if they would be annoying, then we should just
| switch to mainly using public transport especially in
| areas where people live or want to enjoy the outdoors.
| But yeah presumably it's just a low volume, enough for
| the person behind the car to realize it's on and rolling
| but not carry further. I haven't heard one myself yet.
| abecedarius wrote:
| When you're hard of hearing like me, traffic noise makes
| conversation impossible just about everywhere inside a
| city. Electric vehicles might have fixed this, if the
| solution were not being banned. That is _intensely_
| annoying.
|
| (If not outside, you can try chatting inside. But public
| meeting places inside are almost all noisy too: if not
| crowded enough to be noisy, most will add music or TV to
| compensate.)
| marmaduke wrote:
| Have you heard the EV noise though? In France there are a
| lot of Renault Zoe around, and the noise is much softer,
| narrower band (which might help not mask vocal frequency
| band) than a gas engine. To be honest, I'm grateful,
| otherwise I'd cross in front of one as a pedestrian or
| cyclist. I'd even like to see the front of city buses
| with some noise since, with the engine in the back, you
| just hear them whoosh past when they barely miss you.
| laurent92 wrote:
| They will be creative. "My car has the copyrighted Justin
| Bieber sound" will be the new trend. Or should I say
| "auditive experience".
| gmueckl wrote:
| At least in the EU, modding the mandated vehicle sound is
| not allowed (for the car to stay street legal etc..)
| pier25 wrote:
| Loud motorbikes should be forbidden. Period.
| erikbye wrote:
| Not loud cars?
| jacquesm wrote:
| As well as everybody who is not currently in traffic that also
| gets to 'enjoy' your loud exhaust. And needlessly revving the
| engine when standing still is also probably in some way related
| to traffic safety.
| terminalserver wrote:
| This is a very strange justification for having an obnoxiously
| loud vehicle.
|
| If you want to be seen wearing bright leds.
| mod wrote:
| It's not strange, it's exceedingly common in the motorcycle
| community.
|
| I don't have loud pipes but I think it could help in blind
| spots, that's about it. I just don't ride in blind spots
| instead.
| henearkr wrote:
| That should not be necessary. Bicycles don't need it, do
| they?
|
| Moreover, with modern blind spot cameras, automatic
| collision avoidance systems (which will probably, cheaply,
| equip every electric car), I hope these concerns will
| completely fade away.
| mschuster91 wrote:
| > Bicycles don't need it, do they?
|
| The traffic fatalities of bicyclists in cities would like
| a word with you...
| henearkr wrote:
| I believe the solution is not loud noises.
|
| There are plenty of other options.
| ryukafalz wrote:
| Most importantly, slowing down cars in residential or
| dense areas. The slower vehicle traffic is moving, the
| less likely that a collision will be fatal. (By a lot!)
| benhurmarcel wrote:
| And yet if I permanently had a siren on my bicycle you'd
| think I'd be an asshole.
| b4ke wrote:
| Ok, well I have been hit by vehicles on various bicycles
| five times. Always follow the laws, ride the lanes,
| lights, blah blah blah. On my liter bike with an after-
| market exhaust, people mostly get out of my way.... so I
| mounted an air horn on my bike handlebars, people now see
| me magically.
| henearkr wrote:
| At least that's better than loud exhaust pipes. Loud
| bikes activate the fight-or-flight system in a way that
| klaxons do not.
|
| Maybe that's because the loud bikes have frequencies and
| intonation modulation close to those of a menacing voice?
| (or growl)
|
| At least in Japan, some bikers (bosozoku) do on purpose
| some kind of sounds similar to somebody arguing angrily
| (and snarkingly!).
|
| But I don't want to accept neither as a solution air
| horns and vuvuzuelas competing for my attention and for
| the privilege of prematurely obliterating my cochlear
| hair cells.
|
| There are other ways, let's do this. We are smarter than
| that, aren't we.
| igetspam wrote:
| It wouldn't help. There's literally nothing that can be done
| to get a cager's attention, if they're distracted. I've had
| to knock on windows, to prevent people from merging into me.
| Loud pipes, hi-viz clothes, horns. Nothing helps. People are
| just too self absorbed to pay attention. You people see cops
| (sometimes) and vehicles bigger than yours and that's about
| it.
| edejong wrote:
| Perhaps treating the other road users as people instead of
| derogatory terms like cagers would help. In addition,
| choosing a mode of transport which is literally 20 times
| more lethal per kilometer than driving is your
| responsibility. You can always choose to be a 'cager'.
| mFixman wrote:
| Motorcycles are lethal _because_ of cars.
|
| Blaming people for injuries are deaths caused by cars is
| the most discusting tactic the car industry has used to
| fight against road safety. Just look at any newspaper
| article about car drivers murdering children: they are
| always phrased as in "inattentive child was looking at
| his cellphone and died in a road".
|
| I find it incredible that walking on a street is illegal
| in parts of America. Honestly, the only reasonable
| solution to this is a Netherlands-style law that makes
| the biggest vehicle automatically guilty for all
| accidents they caused: this alone being deaths down
| tenfold.
| erikbye wrote:
| In my country, in 90% of motorcycle deaths cars are not
| involved. It's simply people going too fast or otherwise
| misjudge corners.
| edejong wrote:
| I wish it was that simple. First of all, around half of
| the lethal accidents with motorcycles do not involve
| another road user. The other half is often caused by the
| motorcyclist due to speeding, insufficient distance or
| incorrect clothing and protection.
|
| Second of all, while cars have seen half a century of
| safety improvements, motorcycles have lagged behind.
| Nevertheless, road use and traffic density have
| increased. Riding a motorcycle is akin to driving a car
| without a seatbelt, without a crumble zone and without
| ABS (and even then it is more lethal). Accidents happen.
| It is how you prepare for them that makes the difference.
|
| Yes, I also find it incredibly stupid how the US has
| become so walking and cycling unfriendly. The reason why
| the Netherlands is different is not due to legal or
| regulations. It's because we have had leaders who made
| long-term plans to separate the various types of traffic.
| This means we separate the risk groups. You won't find
| many walking on roads with traffic exceeding 50 kph (30
| mph). You won't find cyclists on highways. That is the
| solution.
| hamoid wrote:
| To me the sound of those big bikes is a form of terrorism. They
| rise my blood pressure, increase stress levels and make me
| hate. Try living somewhere where every 20 minutes such bikes
| make the windows of your flat shake and you can't hear your TV
| or your partner talking until the bike is gone. Why do I have
| to suffer this every day of my life? I can't wait until the ICE
| is part of our primitive past.
| mrweasel wrote:
| Some motorcycle have an insane high volume bass sound that
| make me physically sick.
|
| If the rider thinks it helps them get noticed in traffic,
| then fine, but then they should also have on a hi-vis jackets
| and helmet, which most don't.
| tartoran wrote:
| It gets me utterly sick as well and covering my ears does't
| help much. I don't think the only intention is be heard but
| to be noticed by absolutely everyone, awake or asleep. It's
| a show off
| hotz wrote:
| Hi-viz doesn't work though. I use to look like a walking
| highlighter, I might as well have been invisible. Put on
| aftermarket exhaust and people know I'm there. The
| difference in behaviour was crazy.
| mrweasel wrote:
| Sorry, I don't understand why you're downvoted, because
| that's kinda interesting. Has someone wrote the sound
| also don't help in many cases so that could indicate that
| many aren't paying enough attention while driving or
| we're lacking some way to make bikers visible (both
| motorcycles and bicycles).
| PopePompus wrote:
| If you can't find a safe way to use your mode of
| transportation without ruining the quality of life of
| your neighbors, perhaps it's time to find a new mode of
| transportation.
| wwalexander wrote:
| If you can't find a way to sit in front of the AC and
| listen to the radio without clogging roads, burning
| fossil fuels at a double or triple rate, and impeding
| your visibility so much that you regularly endanger the
| life of your neighbors, maybe it's time to find a new
| mode of relaxation.
|
| The USA is one of the few countries where motorcycles are
| uncommon and seen as a surprising choice, probably due to
| our laughably simple drivers test that doesn't even
| require knowledge of how to drive a manual. Motorcycles
| burn less gas, cause far less traffic, and cause far less
| damage to others when accidents occur. The single reason
| why motorcycling is dangerous is because of 4-wheel
| drivers, who _constantly_ :
|
| * Change lanes/cut you off without signaling * Slam on
| their brakes without signaling * Try to merge into your
| lane when they are next to you * Read their phones and do
| all of these things
|
| When I say constantly, I mean (in my city) every block or
| two of riding. Motorcycling is an exercise in constant
| scanning for the next person who is going to
| intentionally or unintentionally try to kill you, and
| having a loud exhaust is a way to quickly get them to
| realize they're about to do so. It's hard to see car
| drivers constantly put us in danger by (illegally) not
| paying attention for their own comfort, and then
| insinuate that it's the motorcycle riders who are the
| problem.
|
| One last note - I think most HNers are talking about loud
| sport bike exhausts like Yoshimura here, not Harley
| exhausts that sound like thunder every time you let off
| the clutch. These exhausts are normally at an acceptable,
| sociable noise level but can get much louder when you rev
| high, which is nice for blipping the throttle to get the
| guy next to you scrolling Spotify to look up before he
| sideswipes you.
|
| So, even though I'm recovering from the multiple
| fractures I received after going over my handlebars, to
| avoid hitting a car that turned left in front of me in an
| intersection, who may never have seen me at all, I think
| I'll stick with my mode of transportation. And you can
| stick with yours, and turn the radio up if you find the
| noise of motors on a motorway that unacceptable. I
| certainly do think a lot of riders take it too far, or
| just do it for attention. But I don't think it's fair to
| blame them in general for doing anything they can to
| counteract the lack of care and attention paid by people
| in cars.
| hotz wrote:
| Aftermarket exhaust and slight left/right swerving
| movements beats hi-viz. The swerving is meant to catch
| the eye's attention in the side mirrors.
|
| Many people also drive with earphones on so whatever
| external noises they hear is debatable. I'm betting most
| bikers will agree that hi-viz alone doesn't guarantee
| that you're visible.
| Enginerrrd wrote:
| Not sure I agree with the exhaust, but the weaving seems
| to help a LOT.
| bellazeus wrote:
| The downvotes are because the loud pipes thing is a myth,
| especially on the highway. MSF classes actually cover
| this.
| igetspam wrote:
| Wear a white helmet. People notice them because cop. I
| loved my black and red shoeis but the white gets more
| eyes.
|
| You're on the mark about hi-viz gear though. It's
| sometimes helpful but bikes are generally invisible.
| bayindirh wrote:
| I understand that performance engines need unobstructed
| exhausts up to a certain point, but pipes tuned to amplify
| this sound is distracting at best, damaging your ears at
| worst. I don't like them.
|
| They become hazardous in tunnels, underpasses and other
| closed spaces. Ultra loud pipes kill my ears' locating
| capabilities and I can't mentally place the motorcycle to the
| correct place so I won't unintentionally endanger it.
|
| The place I live has many more motorcycles in recent years
| and they drive dangerously to save time (delivery guys), and
| it makes my life as a car driver much more harder.
|
| If you always drive in my blind spots and have loud pipes to
| blind my ears, I cannot see you, _even if I very hard to
| try_. So please be a little more considerate.
| noir_lord wrote:
| Euro 4/5 big bikes are surprisingly quiet off the floor
| then they swap the exhaust and it's loud as fuck.
|
| I'm a motorcyclist and I'll be moving to a larger bike next
| year but I want one that is as quiet as practical, on bike
| comfort is better if you don't scream every time you go
| over 5K.
| KozmoNau7 wrote:
| > "I understand that performance engines need unobstructed
| exhausts up to a certain point"
|
| As a motorcycle and car enthusiast, that point is _way_
| beyond any sort of reasonable level of performance for
| public roads.
| rorykoehler wrote:
| Performance engines belong on the race track
| VBprogrammer wrote:
| I don't know what to tell you, I'm normally a pretty
| sensible type. Stick to the speed limits, have a small
| sensible car etc. But on a motorbike the noise of the
| exhaust while riding a motorcycle is intoxicating!
| goldenkey wrote:
| Inhaling the exhaust is intoxicating too. Not all of us
| want to destroy our lives for cheap thrills.
|
| https://youtu.be/eEdf0R5ypsg
|
| https://youtu.be/GO6guuJtPkM
| bayindirh wrote:
| Any engine can be intoxicating. Especially 3.0L V6 and
| upwards.
|
| However, having an intoxicating piece of equipment
| doesn't allow anyone to drive recklessly in public roads,
| endangering yourself and others.
|
| This the the thing I can tell you, as a son of a rally
| driver.
| NikolaNovak wrote:
| Absolutely. To you.
|
| Other 10,000 people you pass be dammed.
| PopePompus wrote:
| I recently had to move because of the noise caused by
| people like you.
| jray wrote:
| All people who make noise with their motorbikes deserve a
| slow and painful death.
| ubercow13 wrote:
| Lots of 'intoxicating' things are incredibly selfish or
| even endanger others, that doesn't seem like a
| justification for anything.
| berkes wrote:
| I live in a nature area, on a curvy road (a dike). On
| sunny days, the amount of motorcycles passing is insane:
| several hundreds.
|
| Of those, under 1% is like you: rediculously loud,
| shifting gears too late, etc.
|
| Me and my neighbors are so fed up with those 20-something
| noise pollutors per week, that we're working with our
| regional govt to ban all motorcycles on these roads, or
| re-arrange our road so motorcycling is no longer fun,
| here. Apparently that is the only route left, now.
|
| So congratulations: you've managed to spoil a hobby of
| hundreds of motorcyclists. (Besides being annoying as
| hell, obviuosly)
| VBprogrammer wrote:
| You seem to be projecting. My motorbike always had a
| street legal exhaust on it and it wasn't particularly
| loud.
|
| Perhaps you should spend less time worrying about a
| little bit of noise, especially during daylight hours,
| presumably on mostly sunny days.
| bayindirh wrote:
| Can you be underestimating how sound propagates in silent
| environments, and our brains are so efficient at
| filtering background noise?
|
| Since the pandemic started, traffic around my home
| decreased tremendously and, even smallest traffic became
| bothering. In sparsely populated areas, that oddball
| sound is much more disturbing to residents which are used
| to silence.
|
| BTW, getting angry to people who we don't know personally
| is not very productive IMHO.
| VBprogrammer wrote:
| I'm intrigued about which part of that response you
| thought was angry?
|
| The front elevation of my house is less than 15ft away
| from a reasonably busy road. I'm no stranger to the
| perils of noise pollution. In fact, around one week a
| year, last week in fact, the M25 (the London ring road)
| is diverted overnight along our road. This means we have
| heavy trucks passing our home all night long. We also
| live under the departure route for Heathrow (though
| that's been relatively quiet this year!).
|
| I think people should live and let live though. Otherwise
| we end up in a situation where people are constantly
| trying to ban other people's hobbies. Off-road driving,
| motorcycles, horse riding, light aircraft, playing the
| drums, road cycling, caravaning, beer gardens, smoking
| weed, barbequing, DIY, fixing up old cars etc. They all
| have something someone else could find objectional if
| they lack joy enough in their own life to want to cause
| misery in someone else's.
| ericbarrett wrote:
| Hear hear. Noise pollution is one of the biggest reasons
| why I never want to live in a city again. And loud-pipe
| motorcycles are by far the biggest contributor to that--
| more than garbage trucks, delivery vehicles, truck engine
| (jake) brakes, or even sirens (except in New York where the
| sirens are inexplicably loud even outside the urban canyons
| of Manhattan).
| tartoran wrote:
| Harley's exhausts make me sick even if I cover by ears, the
| sound vibrates through my body. I also dislike a tool reving
| all the way up his standing crotch rocket in front of my
| house, it's both bad for the engine and done to draw
| attention and annoy others, why is this even allowed? Or the
| exploding sound which makes my dog enter a panic attack? They
| install some special exhausts pipes for that, how is that
| legal?
| graton wrote:
| From my understanding a stock Harley coming out of the
| factory is relatively quiet. They manufacture them to meet
| legal requirements.
|
| It is just that majority of owners seem to replace exhaust
| system components to give it that "Harley sound".
|
| Here is somebody doing a decibel test of their stock
| Harley: https://youtu.be/4LzFC1Ts7PE?t=63
| eplanit wrote:
| I've always seen people who need/crave loud noises,
| bright/flashy colors, lots of bling, etc. as just not very
| bright people. It seems to correlate with lower-than-average
| intelligence. My theory is that those minds need more
| 'kinetic' stimulation in order to feel good. So far, after
| 50+ years of anecdotal experience I've found very few
| exceptions.
| GuB-42 wrote:
| > To me the sound of those big bikes is a form of terrorism
|
| Small bikes are way worse. These 50cc two stroke engines,
| often illegally modified with loud exhaust. Not only they are
| as loud if not louder than a big motorbike but they are so
| slow they linger around for a while, often it populated area
| like cities.
|
| They are popular in France because you only need to be 14 to
| ride one (vs 18 for cars) and you don't need a license.
| henearkr wrote:
| I believe that by "the sound of those big bikes" the
| commenter does not know the bike characteristics other than
| by their sound, so it's the same either with a physically
| small or big bike: what he is stating is that he does not
| like the big sound.
|
| That's true that there are big as well as small bikes with
| an horrendous sound, they are equally harmful.
|
| I agree that they should very quickly belong to history (or
| museums). I wish that this new Yamaha concept will
| accelerate bikes electrification.
| hamoid wrote:
| You are right. Big or small bikes, buses, trucks or a
| driver trying to quickly burn as much fuel as possible in
| their car are all disturbing.
|
| A difference is that some of them are not trying to be
| loud on purpose while others are. That's what triggers
| me. Their violence.
|
| If smoking is not allowed I don't understand why this is,
| or why rules are not enforced. Changing homes is much
| harder than changing sidewalks.
|
| At least there's hope. Seeing silent electric bikes go by
| makes me smile.
| formerly_proven wrote:
| Only god knows how much I hate those things. I don't think
| there's ANY vehicle as infuriating as a two-stroke scooter
| driving down a street slowly while revving its engine to
| death. Their stink and noise makes fighter jets blush.
| Frankly, the permanent hearing damage the riders probably
| get is well-earned by being such an enormous moron.
| snarfy wrote:
| Yeah crotch rockets are another level all together. When
| they open up the throttle on the freeway near my house I
| can hear them still going at least 2km away!
| names_are_hard wrote:
| I'd love a silent bike with tons of torque. I'm not looking
| forward to the day where my bike phones home to the
| manufacturer, isn't repairable by an amateur in a garage, or
| comes with DRM.
|
| Unfortunately I think both those are inevitable. For now I'll
| keep riding my 15-year old carburetor bike with no rider aids.
|
| Speaking of rider aids, I sometimes wonder where the balance is
| between safety and fun. I think the sport is only interesting
| if it's challenging, so a self driving motorcycle doesn't seem
| like it's good for anything other than transportation. What
| about TCS? ABS? Slipper clutches?
| 0_____0 wrote:
| Certainly there's a lot of skill to riding a motorcycle that
| TCS/ABS/Slippers (and displacement!) do not replace. I love
| that aspect of motorcycles. It's pretty amazing to be riding
| at your peak performance in B group on the track on a 650 and
| have someone on a Ninja 300 blow by you on an inside line at
| 20-30 seconds faster pace than you.
| foobiekr wrote:
| Public roads aren't really a sporting arena, so probably
| actual sports use will continue in an appropriate venue.
| annoyingnoob wrote:
| I've never been a fan of 'loud pipes save lives'. Its your
| riding skill that is going to save your life, your ability to
| anticipate the actions of others.
| Anonymous4272 wrote:
| They may use Toyota's speaker thing that emits a sound at low
| speeds, which was specifically created to reduce noise
| pollution.
| NikolaNovak wrote:
| I owned ride 6-7 different motorcycles, and I believe there's a
| special place in hell for those who put on loud aftermarket
| exhausts.
|
| Sure, it sounds nice to _them_. It shows an astonishing
| disregard to thousands of _other_ people they impact daily. Let
| alone your next 10 neighbour houses who put up with it on
| consistent basis. ... :O
|
| There's no increased safety factor - there's no real location
| or distance clue such loud exhausts provide and in my
| experience they only stress and antagonize other drivers :-/
| sdenton4 wrote:
| As a bicyclist, loud motorcycles are the fscking worst.
| They're deafening and extremely distracting, which is extra
| terrible if anything complicated is going on. Which there
| often is, because people on loud bikes are often driving like
| fscking idiots, dodging between cars who end up nearly
| crowding me off the road.
| jonahhorowitz wrote:
| I had a motorcycle pass between me and a car while I was in
| a bike lane. Revved his engine while he was right next to
| me. Scared the daylights out of me. It sounded like a bomb
| had gone off. Seriously, screw motorcyclists with loud
| pipes that drive like idiots.
| pmontra wrote:
| The keyword is idiot, not loud pipes. To be fair
| sometimes we cyclists also behave like idiots on the
| road. Same thing when we get off our bike, get into a car
| and drive. Of course an idiot with a needless loud
| exhaust is far worse than a silent one, I agree on that.
| baybal2 wrote:
| I noticed that people on more powerful bikes crash way more
| often for their own lack of driving skill, than the other way
| around.
|
| Lost count to seeing scenes like kids on H2Rs "crashing" into
| something at like just above pedestrian speeds.
|
| It takes a lot of skill to drive a powerful, and heavy
| motorcycle. It's definitely should not be your first, or even
| second machine.
|
| I'm myself on two-wheelers for 15 years still feeling that I
| am about to fly off a seat even on a relatively tame 300CC
| scooter.
| lubesGordi wrote:
| Bigger more powerful bikes usually have flatter torque
| curves which make the bike easier to control.
| NikolaNovak wrote:
| I think that stands to a point (the twitchiest bike I
| ever rode was a 400CC supermoto), but depends on details
| and circumstance. Besides throttle control though, their
| weight may be harder to handle for newbies in e.g. stop
| and go traffic or narrow / twisty streets....
| baybal2 wrote:
| Top heavy, steep rake, 200kg+ sport bikes are completely
| unridable in a city no matter what the torque control is.
| vladvasiliu wrote:
| I ride such a "bigger more powerful bike with a flat
| torque curve", and there are two issues:
|
| 1. As a sibling said, there's the issue of weight. If
| you're inexperienced, it WILL bite you in the ass.
| Especially since the engine being very powerful and
| having great brakes, when "just starting slowly" it won't
| feel heavy. Hell, mine gives you the feeling it stands
| upright on itself. But try braking a bit harder while
| maneuvering and getting it tilted, and you better expect
| the 300 kg to want to get down.
|
| 2. As per 1, powerful engine + heft + (usually) great
| suspension give you a bike that feels very, very safe.
| Plus the torque from way down low never seems to quite
| "rush" you since you don't have to rev it. So it gives
| you confidence. Except that even though you don't _feel_
| like going fast, you actually _are_ going fast. So you
| get fairly quickly in deep water, and everything is great
| while the sea is calm. The sea floor is right there! But
| you never know. Ride a bit too fast in a turn, and you
| better hope there aren 't any trees around...
| dazc wrote:
| I rode moto-x as a teenager for about 4 years so I would,
| back then, class myself as reasonably skilled. Yet the
| first time on a proper big road bike scared the hell out of
| me and I never went any further. From then on it was 4
| wheels all the way.
|
| Not surprised in the least that there are so many
| accidents.
| lmilcin wrote:
| I recently (2 years ago) made motorcycle license (Poland)
| and bought 600cc Honda CBF600s.
|
| During training we had to switch motorcycles (we started
| on 250cc, then after a dozen hours moved to 600cc which
| is required by Polish law to pass the exam).
|
| I have felt comfortable on 250cc but moving to 600cc felt
| like I had to learn everything again from the start.
|
| On 250 (140kg?) I could throw my weight around and cause
| motorcycle to do stuff while the same no longer seems to
| work on 600 (210kg?).
|
| Overall I feel better and safer on 600cc because at
| highway speeds it does exactly what I need it to do and
| place myself exactly where I want without feeling that it
| is overpowered and that slight mistake with the throttle
| is going to cause me to loose control of it.
|
| I tried a dozen different motorcycles from 125cc to
| 1000cc before I made my final choice.
|
| One disclaimer is that I am rather cautious driver/rider.
| As an example I never drive/ride fast in relation to
| other drivers. I may ride faster but only so much so I
| still am able to react if they make something stupid. I
| also spend a lot of effort learning to drive/ride safer.
|
| When it comes to pratical matters I think that for safety
| it doesn't matter much how large your bike is, as long as
| you are properly trained. 125cc or 1000cc, your prospects
| in an accident are roughly the same.
|
| Smaller bikes (125cc or less) may offer better handling
| if you are not well trained and you panic but on the
| other hand they might be less agile in traffic where it
| is important to constantly place you away from blind
| spots of other drivers, etc.
|
| The only danger comes from speed and acceleration. But if
| you are an adult and can restrain yourself to safe speeds
| I don't think larger motorcycle is less safe.
|
| What I mean is that it is not the size of the motorcycle
| but the driver that causes it to be unsafe. And unsafe
| drivers may prefer to choose larger motorcycles because
| it allows them to ride faster.
| NikolaNovak wrote:
| I would support all that.
|
| When starting out, take that weekend course your local
| college offers - and try all the bikes in a controlled safe
| environment. I was shocked how much I didn't want a sports
| bike - the posture and low speed maneuverability were
| horrid. I also didn't like cruisers personally, didn't feel
| in control leaning back. I turned into a lifelong standard
| posture guy - whether city bike or adventure or
| dirt/supermoto... But point is, find out what feels right
| for _you_ , rather than get a 750cc superbike as your first
| ride based on specs or review or what you think may work
| well.
|
| I had fun going full throttle redline on... My cbr125, back
| in the day:D. More so than on some twitchy overpowered bike
| where I feared touching the throttle.
| brandall10 wrote:
| Fwiw, in California it's customary to do a day long
| motorcycle safety course in lieu of taking an on road
| test with the DMV, which is noted as having some aspects
| that are unusually difficult.
| annoyingnoob wrote:
| I did both, but the rules have changed since then. When I
| did the CA DMV motorcycle test it was super easy. Ride
| straight between two white lines, then around a full
| circle between the lines, then back between another set
| of lines - all you have to do is stay in the lines. Took
| all of about 1 minute. The trick was to use a small
| motorcycle, you need a 250cc or above for M1 so I
| borrowed a 250. Piece of cake.
| quercusa wrote:
| When I did it (long ago) I think there was a cone weave
| as well. I started off thinking that test was a poor
| representation of what riding was actually like, but came
| to understand that for a quick test, it probably mapped
| pretty well to basic MC skills.
| annoyingnoob wrote:
| Its been 30 years for me, maybe I just dont remember that
| part. I only recall the second part here:
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H572hoMVZXY
| [deleted]
| 83457 wrote:
| I always assumed that the point of loud vehicles was to
| assert dominance by being an asshole. If people are annoyed
| and upset then it is working exactly as intended. You have
| provoked an emotion that fuels your ego and image of yourself
| as a bad ass that doesn't care about other people.
| reader_mode wrote:
| I don't have aftermarket pipes - but your post is clearly
| from perspective of someone who doesn't ride. Sound is an
| essential part of the riding thrill, riding my bike past
| 10k RPM gives me F1 sound and insane rush. I suspect riding
| an electric motorcycle would be much less thrilling that
| way and make me more aware that I'm on a suicide machine.
|
| I regularly get small children approach me on motorcycle
| and want to pull the throttle, then get scared, then want
| to do it again, there's something primal about that, it's
| (mostly) not about other people.
| sicromoft wrote:
| "Being an asshole is an essential part of the riding
| thrill." Fixed that for you.
| reader_mode wrote:
| There are plenty of places where it's "safe" (in the not
| endangering others sense) to ride at high speed and loud
| toolz wrote:
| If you're knowingly annoying people for your own
| pleasure, I don't much care what your intentions are.
| You're either intentionally mean or too self centered to
| consider your actions effects on the people around you.
| reader_mode wrote:
| I don't disagree with the conclusion but it's equally
| self centered to think someone is doing something just to
| annoy you - so if you just said "loud pipes annoy me" I
| have no problem with that statement, if you say "bikers
| are installing loud pipes to annoy me/others" well that's
| just wrong and I'm giving you insight into what the
| actuall motivation is.
| jqcoffey wrote:
| Or, more generously, just young and immature and not
| completely cognizant of the impact of your actions on
| others.
|
| In a different lifetime I had a few bikes including a
| TL1000R that was just plain intoxicating to ride with
| aftermarket pipes.
|
| There is no way in hell I could do that to my neighbors
| at this stage of my life, however, and I often cringe at
| the actions of my younger self. Nowadays, I refuse to
| even use gas powered garden tools for noise (and
| environmental) reasons.
| throwaway894345 wrote:
| I don't ride, but I've often considered it as a hobby.
| Even still, I wish people who just really like noise
| would get themselves some headphones instead of
| disrupting everyone else, damaging their hearing,
| interrupting their (even indoor) conversations, waking
| sleeping children, etc. It's incredibly selfish behavior
| and I can only imagine people who behave this way are
| compensating for something.
|
| I _almost_ buy the "loud pipes save lives" angle but if
| you need to deafen others to protect yourself maybe
| motorcycling just isn't an institution worth keeping
| around. That said, I don't think it needs to come to
| that.
| reader_mode wrote:
| Loud pipes argument is bullshit in my book, I've been
| riding for 5 years now and never had a traffic accident,
| defensive riding is the only way to be "safe" (you're
| never really safe on a bike, even a little gravel on the
| road can mean you end up in a coma), relying on other
| drivers having to notice you is a pointless gamble, just
| assume they aren't going to and drive accordingly. Also I
| notice people get startled by a loud bike approaching -
| and the last thing you want is to startle an insecure
| driver.
| captainredbeard wrote:
| People aren't deafened by them, only annoyed. That said,
| I can't stand loud bikes!!
| NikolaNovak wrote:
| As I said (GP here) - I rode motorcycles since 2008; I'll
| grant you that sound is absolutely part of the fun - but
| loud aftermarket exhausts, detonating straight pipes, etc
| which are the subject of the topic here -- I feel the
| world's balance is overwhelmingly on the negative in the
| "joy to self" vs "average impact to others".
|
| I understand many people put the aftermarket pipes "for
| themselves", at least consciously, or at least claim so -
| but I feel at best, it's a degree of self-centerdness to
| not realize impact on others. I see it on Subaru forums
| too - fellow WRX/STi owners moaning about their
| neighbour's complaints and cops stopping them and people
| giving them dirty looks etc etc - obliviously blind that
| it was themselves who brought in on by installing
| ridiculous loud exhausts. A factory exhaust on my bikes
| gave me plenty of thrill, and while I did put a high-flow
| cat on my Scoobie, I searched for an exhaust with nice
| sound but quieter actual dBs than stock. Few things are
| B&W - but there is a loudness at which point it really
| really is about others.
|
| (note that when you say "past 10k RPM", it sounds like
| you likely have a sportsbike, and as you say a stock one;
| those can be loud at high revs, but generally speaking
| the loudest bikes in my experience tend to be modified
| cruisers and wanna-be Harleys.
|
| Also note that rider may not always get straight opinions
| from friends, depending who wants to fight what battle
| when - e.g. last summer, a rider was revving his throttle
| at a friends' cottage and boasting about his aftermarket
| pipes; given we were both guests, I politely nodded and
| meandered away... but everything for the rest of the
| evening confirmed the image I formed the moment I heard
| his pipes :-/)
| reader_mode wrote:
| I'm not trying to defend anyone - I'm just saying that
| looking at it from the perspective of "they are just
| doing it to show off" etc. is not really my experience
| (there's some of that for sure)
|
| I'm not a fan of aftermarket exhausts, stock one is
| plenty loud for me and doesn't disturb anyone while I'm
| riding normaly. I especially dislike the grandpa chopper
| bikes that sound like tanks, like you said my sports bike
| gets insane at >9k RPM - but I don't ride insane in
| populated areas.
| uglycoyote wrote:
| Sure.. I get a kick out of twisting the throttle on my
| Yamaha a couple times but I totally disagree that it is
| an essential part of the experience. If you could sell me
| a completely silent but very powerful motorcycle I would
| buy it. And even if you are thrilled by the sound, there
| comes a point (when you put straight pipes on) where it
| clearly becomes less about whether the rider can hear
| their own bike and more about whether everyone else can.
| So As someone who has spend hundreds of thousands of
| kilometres on a motorcycle I totally agree with
| grandparent post here, once it gets to that point where
| you are changing your exhaust to make it louder, it out
| is mostly about egos and images.
| reader_mode wrote:
| IDK - I had a few biker friends (before I moved last
| time, pretty much stopped riding since my son was born,
| going to sell the bike any day now), they would use DB-
| killer but if we went off riding twisties they would pull
| it out and just enjoy the insanity. There was one guy who
| would ride without dbkiller all the time, he was a dick
| in general, so there's that.
| johng wrote:
| I've always said that an exhaust should only be as loud as
| the vehicle or motorcycle is fast. I put exhausts on my
| vehicles and motorcycles that free the flow of air which
| makes the engine (an air pump) perform better. I never put
| one on a slow vehicle just to make it louder. Consider this
| the same as overclocking a cpu. You are burning up more
| electricity than you "need" to, all for your own personal
| greed or need for speed? The door swings both ways.
| art0rz wrote:
| Except my PC doesn't wake up the neighborhood.
| imoverclocked wrote:
| It might produce EMI though. (if we are picking nits)
| imoverclocked wrote:
| Wow, downvoted into obscurity despite factual basis.
| Overclocking can in fact produce EMI.
|
| I realize that audible noise is very readily recognized
| as harmful. It's been studied and proven to be harmful,
| as have other forms of pollution. I think EMI affects
| less people directly but it's still noise.
| russellendicott wrote:
| I have this same theory with road cyclists. I have no
| problem with someone bicycling to get to work but there are
| many other types of exercise that don't involve blocking
| traffic by making other drivers terrified to hit you. It's
| like doing jumping jacks at a gun range. There must be a
| dominance factor at play.
| vincentpants wrote:
| Homie, it has nothing to do with you or your work
| commute. Cyclists have every legal right to be on the
| road as a car and if a shoulder lane isn't safe enough to
| cycle on then it's safest and recommended and the law to
| take up a whole lane to ensure assholes like you don't
| risk their safety/lives by trying to squeeze past them in
| the same lane. Best to just treat them as a car and try
| to practice patience.
| seneca wrote:
| > assholes like you
|
| Less of this, please.
| russellendicott wrote:
| But why would someone choose road cycling for exercise
| over running on a sidewalk? Road cycling is very
| expensive and inconveniences people.
| pmontra wrote:
| Cars are usually more expensive than bycicles and
| inconvenience people too.
|
| Don't get me wrong, I've got both a car and a bicycle,
| not 100% for road cycling but count it as if it was (it's
| a gravel bike.)
|
| For me cycling beats running 100-0. I can easily pedal
| 100+ km but I can't run 100 meters, too tiresome.
| Furthermore I see 100 km of the world vs a small area
| around my home.
|
| Ultimately it's all subjective. Each of us likes
| something different and it's OK.
| tobesure wrote:
| >Cyclists have every legal right to be on the road as a
| car and if a shoulder lane isn't safe enough to cycle on
| then it's safest
|
| How many man hours are wasted by cyclists who take up the
| road and drive at half or less the speed limit? Isn't
| that sort of selfish, asshole behavior? Why should their
| desire to exercise in public supercede that of everyday
| people trying to go about their lives? Sure, it may only
| be a couple of minutes of inconvenience for the driver
| stuck behind a bicyclist, but collectively there is a
| significant externalized cost and I think people have
| every right to be infuriated by the selfishness.
| tasty_freeze wrote:
| "There must be a dominance factor at play."
|
| It is fine to speculate, but "must" is a strong
| assumption. Your analogy is also based on flawed data.
| Yes, when riding on streets there is a chance of getting
| killed, but getting regular exercise reduces your chance
| of dying for other reasons. There are many studies that
| demonstrate this. Here is one:
|
| https://www.newscientist.com/article/2237214-why-the-
| health-...
|
| https://www.bmj.com/content/357/bmj.j1456
|
| Tell me what you think the benefit:risk ratio is of doing
| jumping jacks at a gun range.
|
| I have worked from home for a long time, but 15+ years
| ago I commuted by bike about 12 miles each way three
| times a week when the weather was good. Dominance had
| nothing to do with my choice to bike there.
|
| I could ride there by bike in 45 minutes, or I could
| drive there in 25 minutes (lots of stop and go). Same on
| the return trip. My mental calculus was I got 90 minutes
| of exercise for an incremental time expense of 40
| minutes. That I was also not polluting was a bonus.
|
| The nearest accident I had ever was one day when I was on
| connector road that had recently been widened and hadn't
| yet picked up a lot of use. Despite there being no
| traffic at that moment, I've always 100% obeyed traffic
| laws, so I stood over my bike waiting for the red light
| to change. About 20 seconds into it a pickup truck came
| screeching to a stop just about five feet behind me - he
| literally locked the tires and left skid marks. Guess
| what his reaction was: to shout and scream to the point
| of spitting that I was lucky to be alive and that I wan
| an asshole for biking on the road. I still don't know if
| he saw me all along and it was a calculated dominance
| display, or if he was daydreaming and really did nearly
| cream me.
| texasbigdata wrote:
| Also...car? 1 person in it. Bike? 1 person on it. Why do
| you assume you take precedence?
| Soulsbane wrote:
| I love this comment! I live out in country and it seems
| like every jackass with a Harley has to add some noise
| pollution just so they enjoy the freedom of the open road.
| dazc wrote:
| This explains a lot of modern day behaviour, thanks for
| pointing out what should have been obvious. Yet here I have
| been all these years thinking these people didn't realise
| what they were doing.
| galaxyLogic wrote:
| No not necessarily by being an asshole. By being loud.
| Animals do it too like lions they have a mighty roar. But
| they only roar when they are afraid. No? Why would they
| otherwise roar?
| jh86 wrote:
| I hope this is not in poor taste, but I find it pretty
| relevant to the discussion (and hilarious)
|
| https://youtu.be/ipDmsxQVxIM
| mioasndo wrote:
| 'I don't like loud vehicles therefore anyone that drives
| one is an insecure asshole trying to assert dominance.'
|
| Maybe the point of loud vehicles is to make you feel better
| about having a quieter one?
| cat199 wrote:
| Me as well, until I bought Forza Horizon and discovered my
| car had a turbo..
|
| I don't dispute that some loud exhausts are the result of
| exactly what you describe, but also many are motorheads who
| have less restrictive exhaust systems for performance
| reasons or just to enjoy their vehicle (unfortunately
| sometimes at the expense of other peoples hearing)
| snarfy wrote:
| Nothing brings out my violent psychotic tic faster than an
| asshole with a loud vehicle.
| teknopaul wrote:
| Road rage is a terrible thing, nothing brings out
| intolerance like a metal cage. Try to abstract it, see road
| rage as a thing in itself, don't let it in. If you get
| there, all of a sudden you don't mind what or how other
| people drive. If you don't get there, it's only you that
| suffers. That tic can't express itself in your self-imposed
| cage.
| NikolaNovak wrote:
| I completely agree road rage is a terrible thing; I agree
| we are all responsible for our own behaviour; and as
| drivers we should not allow such things get to us.
|
| But a needlessly loud motorcycle, particularly the kinds
| that "detonate/explode" on shifts/off-gas, will make me
| jump and annoy no matter what I'm doing - reading a book,
| having a coffee, mowing the lawn, going for a walk,
| playing with my kid, whatever... especially since unlike
| some similarly annoying sounds (Snoring, anyone :P), it
| is 100% purely intentional. This rider _went out of their
| way_ to make it such, knowingly and willingly they spent
| money time & effort.
| erikbye wrote:
| This is wrong. Many bikes have pops and cracks like this
| stock, straight from the factory floor. So do not assume
| the owner went out of his way to make it so.
| adament wrote:
| Being a pedestrian I get the raging tic for loud vehicles
| easily without any metal cage assistance. And sure I try
| to not get annoyed by their insane noise pollution and
| disruption of pleasant conversations or enjoyment of
| sound in a large radius. But fundamentally I believe that
| as the driver of an unnecessarily loud vehicle you* are
| an arsehole.
|
| *you as in the driver, I am aware that the parent poster
| is not necessarily driving a loud vehicle.
| erikbye wrote:
| Perhaps you should get some therapy. Healthy individuals do
| not get that worked up over minor things like loud
| vehicles. It passes you and it is over. Or do loud vehicles
| sit outside your home all day and night?
| mchusma wrote:
| In my life, the most clear & obvious example of negative
| externalities is loud vehicles. I'm saying this as someone
| who would cut 90% of regulation: but I think anyone on a
| public street with a vehicle louder than a UPS truck should
| get fine. Enforced by a camera and microphone array.
| andai wrote:
| The noise and the exhaust are the main reasons I don't like
| populated areas, so I am glad both will probably go away in
| my lifetime.
| wildrhythms wrote:
| I have lived in both Manhattan and the rural midwest. The
| consistent, droning cacophony of the city pales in
| comparison to the suburban lifted truck with aftermarket
| exhaust that wakes up the entire neighborhood every
| morning at 6:15am.
| [deleted]
| captainredbeard wrote:
| How do you feel about airplanes?
| nosianu wrote:
| As a private pilot: The same. I always took extra care to
| cut back on the engine after takeoff, crossing the homes
| near the airport more slowly and without ascending much.
| And I avoided pristine landscapes or at least also slowed
| down a lot for a much quieter engine and prop. Because
| when I was at home or in some national park I hated those
| noisy small planes as much as the next guy.
|
| With a propeller the engine is not alone in producing
| noise, the propeller can easily be worse. Especially when
| you are perpendicular underneath an airplane crossing
| above.
|
| Still, what I find even worse is that general aviation
| still uses leaded fuel. I know this is so "esoteric" for
| most people that few really care, because it is so
| abstract. As someone who went through a heavy metal
| diagnosis and chelator treatment (university clinic, lab
| proven exposure) I know that even the tiniest amounts
| still have an impact. Not a clinical impact, you are not
| sick. But your brain and everything works a bit worse.
| With tiny amounts adding up over decades any small
| problems you get will be attributed to "age", "stress",
| "it's in your head". Because while we know,
| statistically, that there is an impact (that is why the
| _medical_, threshold for lead, and others, is zero), we
| are unable to make any useful statements for individuals.
| Which means for any given person the problem does not
| exist, and for the population level it remains an
| abstract threat.
|
| So noise is one thing, but spreading lead over the
| landscape - yes in tiny amounts, but I believe it still
| adds up and matters - to me is even more outrageous.
|
| I apologize, for years I spread lead over some, or many?,
| of you guys here when I flew around the Bay Area. At the
| time I completely ignored the "LL" on my avgas. Only
| after my own clinical encounter did I realize what it
| meant, suddenly it was more than just a technical term.
|
| https://www.faa.gov/about/initiatives/avgas/
| frosted-flakes wrote:
| Is the use of leaded gas just because most small planes
| are old? Do new planes still require leaded gas? It seems
| absurd that avaiation gas is still leaded when it was
| phases out decades ago everywhere else.
| imoverclocked wrote:
| It's the last hold-out of leaded gasoline in the US that
| I'm aware of and the landscape is complex to say the
| least. Some aircraft engines still require 100LL to
| perform within spec but most modern engine designs can
| also accept high octane "mogas" or motor-vehicle gas.
| mogas is also often not available inside an airport so
| getting it requires a vehicle and gas-cans.
|
| Fun fact: most small GA aircraft still use the exact same
| engine technology that they were developed with despite
| needing to occasionally replace the engine. Automobile
| engines have seen a lot of advances in the last 60 years
| but any given Cessna 172 you see in the sky is likely
| still working in exactly the same way as in the 1960's.
| imoverclocked wrote:
| Student pilot in the Bay Area here.
|
| I completely agree. My CFI has spent time making sure I
| understand how to reduce noise impacts of my flying. I
| live out in the hills which means planes and motorcycles
| are the only noise intrusions I get on a consistent
| basis. I wish I could do more for the noise issue as a
| pilot.
|
| As for the lead issue, I had a small crush on an
| experimental that is being developed. The company is
| using a brand-new engine that can technically burn mogas
| (Motor Vehicle Gas) but the wings are constructed such
| that putting any ethanol in the tank is a severe safety
| issue. This combined with the fact that 100LL and Jet
| Fuel (diesel) are usually the only two fuels available,
| it seems like a lock-in for more lead consumption.
|
| While there is some good news in the lead/noise
| department, it's not taking hold as much as I think it
| aught to: there are electric trainer aircraft produced
| now that provide very low operating costs, much less
| noise and release no lead. Unfortunately, I was reading
| that the performance characteristics make them a less
| desirable training aircraft than a Cessna 172 so adoption
| is slow.
|
| Question for parent: I know the FAA's avgas initiative
| has been around for a while, do you know of any
| significant progress they have made in the area?
| kindall wrote:
| "Loud pipes save lives," they say, while putting their own
| lives in danger from ordinary motorists who must constantly
| repress the urge to destroy the insufferable noise machine.
| throwaway743 wrote:
| Yup... living on a 1st floor in a major city, I've grown a
| deep hatred for those with loud motorcycle/car
| engines/exhausts/soundsystems. It's unnecessary and ruins
| quality of life/productivity. The noise pollution is already
| bad enough in the city with everything else
| 2muchcoffeeman wrote:
| _There 's no increased safety factor - there's no real
| location or distance clue such loud exhausts provide and in
| my experience they only stress and antagonize other drivers
| :-/_
|
| Curious where this idea came from. Some bike riders must also
| be drivers and it's very obvious this isn't true.
|
| Even when emergency vehicles turn on their sirens I can't
| tell where they are until I see them when I'm driving.
| erikbye wrote:
| In my country it is mandatory for electric vehicles to make
| artificial sound so they can be heard.
| hourislate wrote:
| Love this South Park Episode.....
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ipDmsxQVxIM
| Osiris wrote:
| Modifying the exhaust can add power which is why you never
| see stock exhausts at the track. But for most riders, the
| performance improvement is barely noticable.
|
| I'm saying this as someone that had an aftermarket exhaust on
| all of 3 of my street bikes and one of my dirt bikes.
| NikolaNovak wrote:
| Yes it can, but as you hint yourself:
|
| 1. How many aftermarket exhausts actually add meaningful
| performance
|
| 2. How many people actually need / notice / use whatever
| performance they gain
|
| vs
|
| 3. How many people, consciously or not, admittedly or not,
| just get it for bling and sound
|
| Very few people with aftermarket parts take their bike or
| car on the track or competition. Very few have training to
| take advantage of it.
|
| (I don't speak from a theoretical high horse - I spent
| thousands of dollars myself to add power to my WRX, before
| I finally realized that 1. Stock car was already faster
| than myself, and started investing in
| lessons/training/practice runs, and 2. The hands-down best
| investment I made in my car was a $200 aftermarket
| (additional) multi-point seat harness, as it stabilized my
| body/arms and enabled a much much finer degree of control.
| If I were to modify a car today, I'd start with
| suspension/control, not engine/power. For bikes, even more
| so - every bike I ever owned, from 50 scooter to 400cc
| supermoto to 500cc adventure and 750cc touring, can do
| amazing things in hands of a professional rider and can do
| far far less in my own hands; modifying it for
| "performance", for 98% of riders, is pointless and we're
| only fooling ourselves )
| horstmeyer wrote:
| Lose 5 kgs and you'll have gained more performance without
| annoying other people.
| mdoms wrote:
| Most aftermarket exhausts will drop far more than 5kg
| from your bike weight.
| Leherenn wrote:
| Where I live, they have started adding noise pollution
| cameras in the city center. They don't give ticket, just
| display the noise level and a smiley, but I'd love for them
| to become active and more common. It's so annoying being
| woken up at night because of some kind of really loud exhaust
| noise.
| kelp wrote:
| I'd love it if there were automated tickets for this. But
| California can't even get it together to allow automated
| speeding tickets, a bill for this just got killed.
|
| In SOMA in San Francisco I'll often hear motorcycles drive
| by that are so loud they set off car alarms along their
| path.
|
| And don't get me started on the cost/benefit of car alarms.
| foobiekr wrote:
| Once you've been the victim of the Kafkaesque process of
| being victimized by a computer error asserting your car
| didn't pay a toll ("here is an image of your car
| including a different make/model and utterly dissimilar
| license plate number, PAY!") you might understand the
| reluctance for more automation by California.
| fibonachos wrote:
| I used to work in a busy downtown area of the east bay
| and we used to get a lot of the loud bike with loud
| stereo rolling through. What other possible motivation
| could there be for such a thing than wanting the
| attention? South Park hit the nail on the head with their
| loud motorcycle episode.
|
| As for the cameras, I'll echo the sentiments of a sibling
| comment. You don't want them. I lived in AZ in the mid
| 00's when these things were everywhere. They mostly serve
| to disrupt the natural flow of traffic and caused people
| to make dangerous sudden stops when they should have
| proceeded through a yellow lights. Also, many are
| operated by third parties who take a cut and charge a fee
| to run them. If they fail to produce enough revenue they
| become a financial liability to the city, which will
| either monkey with signal time to increase ticket revenue
| or simply remove the camera.
| dylan604 wrote:
| >What other possible motivation could there be for such a
| thing than wanting the attention?
|
| To be fair, convertibles are similar. The wind noise of
| the open air is very loud when moving at speed, so the
| stereo must be that loud to compensate. There are some
| setups that will increase/decrease the volume
| appropriately as the speed changes, but that's not always
| the case. So as the bike is sitting at a light, the sound
| is still blaring at the same volume. Maybe the rider is
| still an asshat for not lowering the volume, but I'd go
| so far as saying their an asshat for refuting the concept
| the sound of the ride is the experience by blasting
| choons.
| gooseyard wrote:
| I can't even stand listening to it on my own bikes,
| particularly if I'm slabbing it somewhere on a freeway at a
| steady speed, the racket is insufferable after 15 or 20
| minutes, even with plugs and a full face helmet. There seems
| to be a prevailing masochism among this flavor of biker, who
| often add ape hangers and then ride around pretending to be
| comfortable.
| NikolaNovak wrote:
| Hah, I always wondered about those and didn't know the name
| ("Ape Hangers") until now... feels like my arms would lose
| circulation and muscles would hurt from that position! I
| assumed I'm just a wimp :P
|
| I see a few posts now that I know what to search for that
| it "relieves strain on wrists and arms", but honestly, I
| think standard riding position (city / adventure / touring
| bikes) has the most natural and relaxed body position
| overall, as long as you can adjust it to your body size and
| proportions.
| gooseyard wrote:
| I think you're right- it might be more comfortable than,
| say, a race bike, but when I think about what it feels
| like to have my arms in the air for a length of time
| (like working on an overhead light fixture or something),
| I can only imagine what it'd be like trying to ride with
| a set of those goofy bars for an hour.
| martyvis wrote:
| I obviously don't talk to enough bikers. This is the first
| timeI have even heard the idea, I'm 57 and certainly have
| known a lot of books riders, that people like loud bikes
| because they think it makes them safer.
| snarfy wrote:
| We make it illegal to eat or use cell phones while driving
| because distracted driving is dangerous, yet it's ok to
| rattle everyone's windows with your Harley.
|
| Even if somehow it is 'safer' for the biker it's definitely
| not for everyone else.
| tapland wrote:
| It's much safer than not hearing traffic or covering
| sounds from the environment using a car stereo though.
| mikestew wrote:
| It's not "ok", we have the same laws against loud
| exhausts. They're just not enforced. Why? I have no idea.
| Should be easier to enforce than cellphones.
| [deleted]
| np- wrote:
| There's a pretty common four word slogan called "Loud pipes
| save lives" - if you look out for it you'll start to see it
| everywhere, bumper stickers, tshirts, etc. Its somewhat
| controversial and not widely accepted by all motorcycle
| riders.
| rlonstein wrote:
| My reply to that (as a motorcyclist of 30+ years) is, "If
| loud pipes save lives, imagine what learning to ride that
| thing would do?"
| [deleted]
| pjmlp wrote:
| I never heard safety being ever related to it, only being
| the motorbike version of tuning culture.
| mdoms wrote:
| I don't ride for you, I ride for me, and I love my loud
| exhausts. Don't like it? I don't care.
| buffet_overflow wrote:
| My favorite bumper sticker goes something like, "If loud
| pipes save lives, imagine how it'd be if you learned how to
| ride the thing"
| tomduncalf wrote:
| > there's a special place in hell for those who put on loud
| aftermarket exhausts.
|
| Living by a busy crossroads, I could not agree more!
| cosmodisk wrote:
| They have their place in hell next to the quad bike
| owners,who think it's ok to use them in urban areas. None of
| them are cool, only complete douches.
| teknopaul wrote:
| Quads do no harm, bit less co2 than a car, bit more
| exposure to the elements. Buying two vehicles is
| considerably less eco. More noisy than electric but better
| range and more fun. If you can't appreciate other people
| having fun, of course, it's lose, lose.
| cfn wrote:
| It is fun until you live next to a trail that becomes a
| quad highway in the weekend. I used to and I was really
| looking forward to the electric quad revolution. That
| would leave only the dust for us to suffer which, somehow
| is less distressing than the noise. I get the point of
| loud engines being fun in a teenager kind of way but they
| are so un-fun to everybody else that we should strive to
| look for and provide some other fun things to replace it.
| H1Supreme wrote:
| I think you missed OP's reference to "urban areas".
| People who blast though densely populated neighborhoods
| on quads (usually "sport" models with obnoxious exhausts)
| generally have no regard for anyone around them. This is
| a very different scene compared to someone riding in the
| woods on one.
| jessaustin wrote:
| They're scarcely more tolerable in the woods.
| Zababa wrote:
| "people having fun" on quads have no place in the city,
| same with scooters with aftermarket exhausts. Especially
| when they go as fast as they can at 3am.
| xtat wrote:
| IIRC there is research that hearing loud vehicle sounds raise
| your blood pressure and and cause release of stress hormones.
| manyxcxi wrote:
| As someone who was a motorcycle safety instructor, which
| required a ton of training and memorization of safety
| statistics for a 20 something year old in order to teach new
| riders for a few summers during college - the numbers agree
| with your sentiment.
|
| Loud pipes don't do squat. All the noise is behind you, no
| one hears you coming they only hear you going, and at that
| point they hate you.
|
| Now... I have an admission to make, and public apologies to
| give. The pipes on my current primary motorcycle are the
| exact same pipes I had on my previous motorcycle but they are
| significantly louder and it was way too late to do anything
| about it that wasn't going to cost thousands before I
| realized.
|
| They are not jerk levels loud, but they have enough rumble to
| them that I essentially do everything I can to idle out of my
| neighborhood in the morning (I'm a block in from an
| agricultural road). They don't really reach "Harley level
| loud" until I'm at least 85% throttle and on my bike that is
| basically drag racing level of throttle position.
|
| Here's the thing- they were incredibly expensive and my bike
| is completely, _perfectly_, tuned for them with new FI
| programming, air intake, and full dyno tuning. No accel/decel
| pops, etc.
|
| So- neighbors, world, I'm truly sorry. When I replace this
| bike I'll make sure it doesn't happen again. Until then, know
| I feel like a jerk every morning in my new neighborhood
| basically coasting to the main road.
| ornornor wrote:
| > "my loud exhaust helps me to be seen"
|
| It's obnoxious and nothing else. Our cities and roads are
| already polluted enough as it is without the rest of the world
| having to suffer eardrum splitting motorbike exhausts that
| shake the whole building.
| jray wrote:
| All people who make noise with their motorbikes deserve a slow
| and painful death.
| [deleted]
| C19is20 wrote:
| As a car motorbiker and cyclist...silent objects coming up on
| me are scary. Very scary. Thankfully the last few tesle that
| came 'close' were so much more loud than I was expecting, I was
| pleasantly surprised. Silence may be golden, but also may be
| not.
| marmaduke wrote:
| > Exhausts sound great
|
| For kids walking to school, people trying to nap, etc, loud
| exhaust is terrible on the ears and stressful in general.
| Electric bikes aren't silent, but the whining noise is much
| less stressful than combustion engine noise.
| bbarn wrote:
| Yeah, your loud pipes don't help the fact that most people
| can't handle driving without intentionally distracting
| themselves with music, apps, or phone calls. Driving a car is
| too easy a task and requires just enough focus that people go
| on mental autopilot and ignore outliers like motorcycles and
| bicycles.
| bellazeus wrote:
| Unless one trains oneself to notice them (or if one has an
| affinity to them due to being an enthusiast), two wheeled
| vehicles are a lot harder to notice while driving in a car.
| DandyDev wrote:
| To me, loud motor cycles seem like a sign of compensating for
| small genitals. Like many others in this thread, those loud
| sounds induce a huge amount of physical and mental stress.
| [deleted]
| thefourthchime wrote:
| "Loud pipes save lives" is just like "the best way to stop a
| bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun". It sounds good,
| but falls apart it the real world.
| tlb wrote:
| Bikes with loud exhaust all have the exhaust pointing out the
| back. If you want to be heard coming instead of going, you
| should add a U-bend just behind the muffler so the exhaust
| sound is projected forward.
| Gibbon1 wrote:
| > "my loud exhaust helps me to be seen"
|
| Friend of mine turned in front of a motorcyclist who had loud
| pipes and was going about 50 in a 25 mph zone. He was
| complaining the whole time the EMT's were loading him into the
| ambulance that my friend was at fault because he had loud
| pipes.
|
| I don't ride but have nothing against motorcyclists. But I wish
| there was some sort of tracking device that would warn me when
| they are around.
|
| Last point something my parents warned me about when learning
| to drive. Not everyone has great eyesight or hearing,
| especially older people. Also older people often have limited
| neck mobility.
| eddyg wrote:
| This needs a [2017] added to the title.
|
| https://global.yamaha-motor.com/showroom/event/tokyo-motorsh...
| Technomaniacz wrote:
| And they thought about this in 2017! Damn, Yamaha is working on
| some pretty interesting Electricals. This would be one costly
| bike to crash tho!
| leon_sbt wrote:
| Really interesting concept. I like the general lines of the bike.
| Looks really well thought out/clean sheet mechanical design.
|
| Two points of contention:
|
| 1) After putting over 40k+ miles on various bikes, I never once
| wished there was a self balancing feature to make it stand up on
| its own. At a stop light; I put my foot down; at a really long
| stop light, I put the kickstand down.
|
| If the self balancing feature can function as form of driver aid.
| Meaning you declarivity tell the bike "I want this line with this
| apex"; then the bike will follow through with it's active
| systems. That would be wild.
|
| 2) The device right behind the rider gives me goosebumps. In a
| crash; seems like a great way to break your back and be pinned in
| the bike.
|
| Background data:MechE background. Owned and crashed high CC
| several motorcycles. I'm doing totally fine healthwise; just
| really lucky.
| steve_adams_86 wrote:
| Right there with you on two. I don't yet understand the
| thinking behind that, but I'll keep reading. It looks really
| threatening.
| Abishek_Muthian wrote:
| >After putting over 40k+ miles on various bikes, I never once
| wished there was a self balancing feature to make it stand up
| on its own. At a stop light; I put my foot down; at a really
| long stop light, I put the kickstand down.
|
| As someone with 138cm height, All I ever wanted on a normal
| sized motor-bike is self-balancing.
|
| So far my options to ride a normal size bike is to convert it
| to three-wheeler with after-market attachments(I'm not
| confident about the safety, Quality of such work), Going for a
| 3-wheel scooter like Peugeot Metropolis(Not really a bike).
|
| Self-balancing bikes would make the dream come true for many
| like me.
| leon_sbt wrote:
| You have a very valid point. I'm 5'11" so getting my foot
| down at stop lights has never been an issue; unless I'm
| dealing with a 450cc dirt bike.
|
| My GF is about 5'2 and stopping a motorcycle in traffic is
| actually a pretty big deal. She isn't tall enough to put her
| foot down, without awkwardly angling the bike. The only bike
| should could ride of mine is a 250cc ninja. The 400cc+
| supermoto was way to awkward/tall for her to comfortably
| ride.
|
| I'm totally open to the self-balancing idea now.
| m463 wrote:
| A friend of mine is a harley guy and said harley is making
| a bike that solves this by lowering the bike when stopping.
| Abishek_Muthian wrote:
| Thank you for considering my point of view.
| balfirevic wrote:
| What do you think of Yamaha Niken? Looks like it would be
| more similar to a normal motorcycle than a 3-wheel scooter.
|
| https://www.yamahamotorsports.com/sport-touring/models/niken
| Abishek_Muthian wrote:
| I had explored it sometime back it seems like a better
| option to Metropolis/MP3 for those who prefer bikes, need
| assistance with balancing and don't mind the premium. But
| it isn't available where I live(importing vehicles is huge
| pain & cost-prohibitive).
| fatboy93 wrote:
| Not really sure about Abhishek, but based on thr name he's
| an Indian and I'm fairly sure that Niken is
|
| A. NA in india B. Too expensive C. We get conversion kits
| which can add two side wheels as a rear wheel/chassis
| attachment which many handicapped people use here in India.
| balfirevic wrote:
| Yeah, it's expensive (and I wasn't aware that there might
| be availability limitations in India).
|
| Although a self balancing bike would probably not be
| cheap either, at least until they become much more
| common.
| Abishek_Muthian wrote:
| Self-balancing e-bike could be helpful in more than one
| way to those with disabilities, Considering our travel
| range is on average limited to those without physical
| limitations I would be happy to charge my bike at home
| without awkward petrol(gas) station visits.
| Abishek_Muthian wrote:
| Rumor is that Mahindra is going to introduce Metropolis
| in the price range of 2.5LacsINR to 3.5 Lacs INR (~5000
| USD), Not sure how they are going to manage that(possibly
| eyeing police force) but at that price it's going to be a
| deal and unlikely to be matched by other 3-wheelers
| currently in the Intl. market(In terms of price).
| m463 wrote:
| I personally think one failing of these concept vehicles is
| that they are clean slate... and too weird.
|
| As an example, early electric cars and fuel cell vehicles
| were/are uniformly non-uniform. The GM ev1 had fender shrouds,
| and the that corbin electric vehicle had 3 wheels.
|
| Personally I would like an electric bike that performed and
| _looked_ like a sportbike.
|
| related: I found it interesting that the look of sportbikes
| actually derives from racing rules. Originally racing bikes
| chased aerodynamics with long streamlined fairings usually
| shrouding at least the front tire. Then racing rules came along
| that said the fairings couldn't extend past the front axle, and
| that set up the look.
| 101001001001 wrote:
| That would be cool to build a bike that can navigate paved trails
| autonomously and take it out at night when nobody is around.
| Jyaif wrote:
| The "Active Mass Center Control System" made me wonder: is it
| possible to make a passive balancing system that would keep a two
| wheel bike standing up?
| jacquesm wrote:
| That's a good question. There are some Halbach array tricks
| that you could probably pull where based on displacement the
| central mass generates a current that then moves the COG back
| to where it should be to rebalance. The losses probably will
| cause it to fall over after a while so that would be more of a
| stay of execution than a complete solution. The lower
| resistance of the coils the longer it would stay up. And adding
| a small active component to overcome the losses and it would
| stay up until the power ran out, but that would violate your
| 'passive' requirement.
| oh_sigh wrote:
| Yes, most bikes have them already - a kick stand.
| beebeepka wrote:
| Wow, this looks great. Straight out of some sci-fi anime
|
| I absolutely love motorcycles. Sadly, most people into seem to be
| in the game just for the sound alone. I have very, very strong
| feelings about the vast majority of this "community" and cannot
| wait for electric to take over.
|
| Sorry for the rant. I have to endure a lot of racers during all
| hours. It's hardly pleasent
| ulimn wrote:
| I never understood those people. Even the standard, factory
| sound of my bike was distrubing a little on longer trips...
| lottin wrote:
| I don't get the loud exhausts and I don't get the community
| either. I've been riding bikes all my life and I've never felt
| attached to any "community" of bikers.
| turbinerneiter wrote:
| Worst thing is that they are ruining it for everyone. Loud
| pipes, racing on the streets - causes more and more noise laws
| and motorcycle bans, making it harder for everyone.
|
| Also looking forward to ride electric. Currently, the range
| sadly doesn't enable what I want to do with my bike - ride it
| out of town, to the mountains, where there is no
| infrastructure. But hopefully soon. For inner city commuting,
| electric bikes are already a great fit - prices are the only
| problem left.
| bagacrap wrote:
| where have there been motorcycle bans?
| turbinerneiter wrote:
| In German there is discussions about it, in Austria they
| banned all bikes that go above 95db in certain regions.
| kube-system wrote:
| Many of China's cities have banned motorcycles
| busterarm wrote:
| They've taken the significantly-emptier streets of midtown-
| Manhattan and decided it's their playground evenings and late
| nights. Most of them are coming in from New Jersey. Usually
| it's 30 or 40 of them at a time and they ride extremely
| dangerously in addition to being loud.
| bellazeus wrote:
| It wouldn't be an issue if the NYPD were interested in
| enforcing the law.
| [deleted]
| ex3ndr wrote:
| Isn't louder == safer?
| booleandilemma wrote:
| Louder == annoying
|
| Louder == I get woken up at 2am
|
| There's loud, and then there's the thunderous _roar_ that
| some of these bikes make because the owner has obvious mental
| issues.
| turbinerneiter wrote:
| No, cars are isolated.
|
| Safe driving practices are safe. Like knowing the perception
| psychology that makes it hard for cars to see you and try to
| counter that.
|
| https://youtu.be/x94PGgYKHQ0
| aiisjustanif wrote:
| Cars are not sound proof.
| LargoLasskhyfv wrote:
| Depends on the car. Ever rode in a Mercedes S-Class at
| 250 kph on the Autobahn? Unnoticable, except of the fast
| whooshing by of overpasses, or such. (As front seat
| passenger)
| erikbye wrote:
| Cars are isolated? On a regular basis I drive 5 different
| cars, various makers, I can hear a Harley just fine in
| either.
|
| And from every parked car where a driver has a conversation
| on speakers I can hear it so well they might as well have
| had it outside of their car. New Teslas, BMWs.
| buffalo2391 wrote:
| Purely anecdotally I used to have a motorcycle that after
| about a year had the muffler need replacement. I was a poor
| student and so bought a fake one instead that was just a
| muffler shaped pipe.
|
| The difference was immediate and extremely noticable, the
| number of near misses went down a huge amount and the few
| times people got a little close I could just chuck the
| clutch in and give it a good rev to scare anyone off.
|
| My biking days are done for now but if I go back I will not
| be going back quietly.
| dexterdog wrote:
| Why wouldn't you just put a wind-powered vuvuzela on the
| front instead? Then it's only being obnoxious when you're
| in motion and it's pointed in the direction that you want
| people to hear you instead of the opposite.
| odiroot wrote:
| Yes it is. I'm not a fan of motorcycle racing in the city but
| I used to commute using a scooter and I'd never do it on a
| completely quiet machine. Car drivers are already pretty
| oblivious to smaller vehicles.
| gauchojs wrote:
| I love the sound of engines and find videos
| likehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=baGM9StRJfI very relaxing.
| (Of course, living near a busy street and having to endure tens
| of bikes at the same time is another thing).
| riffraff wrote:
| somewhat reminded me of the '90s Honda Cub[0] :)
|
| [0] https://barnfinds.com/barn-find-dirt-bike-1991-honda-cub-
| ez9...
| weatherlight wrote:
| I was secretly hoping this was a new FM synthesizer.
| system16 wrote:
| This looks really cool and I can't wait for electric bikes to
| become more mainstream in North America. Although I can't see the
| weekend outlaw-cosplay Harley crowd warming up to them.
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