[HN Gopher] Apple has a decade-long lead in wearables
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Apple has a decade-long lead in wearables
        
       Author : kulpreet
       Score  : 152 points
       Date   : 2021-05-28 22:43 UTC (1 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.aboveavalon.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.aboveavalon.com)
        
       | mensetmanusman wrote:
       | I want a watch that stands alone.
        
         | Spivak wrote:
         | I mean isn't that the Apple Watch with cellular? You can even
         | set up with its own phone number.
        
           | tompazourek wrote:
           | Do you still need an iPhone to set it up, etc.?
        
       | wetpaws wrote:
       | And yet it can't make a smartwatch with a power consumption less
       | of a freaking nuclear submarine. Wearable balttery should be
       | counted in weaks, not fractions of a second.
        
       | sfblah wrote:
       | I find the article's mention of the "static smart speaker mirage"
       | unconvincing. I use Amazon Echo at home and have found its voice
       | recognition and capabilities vastly superior to those of Siri. In
       | my opinion it's fair to say this is an area where Apple is flat
       | out losing to the competition. I too had assumed the watch or
       | phone would provide all that functionality, but it appears I was
       | mistaken.
       | 
       | I think the major lead Apple has in wearables has to do with
       | ecosystem. I wear and Apple Watch because I want to listen to
       | Apple Music while running. Doing so is clumsy with any other
       | device.
        
       | ErikVandeWater wrote:
       | Don't understand why this is upvoted. The math used to get to 10+
       | years assumes competitors address each element of the lead one-
       | by-one:
       | 
       | > Custom silicon / technology / sensors (a four to five-year lead
       | over the competition, and that is being generous to the
       | competition)
       | 
       | > Design-led product development processes that emphasizes the
       | user experience (adds three years to Apple's lead)
       | 
       | > A broader ecosystem build-out in terms of a suite of wearables
       | and services (adds two years to Apple's lead)
       | 
       | Why would competitors wait to start on emphasizing user
       | experience and broader suite of wearables until after they create
       | "custom silicon" (whatever that means)? And the claim that user
       | experience is superior for an Apple itself is unsubstantiated. As
       | an Android/Windows person, I would most likely have a better
       | experience with an Android-based wearable than an Apple-based
       | wearable because of the integration. If the claim is that Apple
       | has a lead against competitors for owners of Apple products, why
       | is that interesting enough to write a blog post? I bet Apple has
       | a lead in Lightning to 3.5mm headphone dongles too.
        
         | shitRETARDSsay wrote:
         | Basically, I upvote anything Apple.
        
       | jayd16 wrote:
       | What a joke. Google, Facebook and Microsoft have face wearables
       | in the market already. In Google's case, they've had enough time
       | to do a full, release and kill cycle. And the Quest runs Android.
       | 
       | How is that an Apple lead?
        
         | ska wrote:
         | > How is that an Apple lead?
         | 
         | Because they have a wearable that people (and not just people
         | in a niche) use and buy in significant numbers?
        
           | jayd16 wrote:
           | Does this logic mean Casio is the AR leader? In my eyes it
           | seems like a ludicrous leap.
        
             | ska wrote:
             | Did you miss the significant numbers part?
             | 
             | Apples watch is a mainstream consumer electronics hit. The
             | closest other thing close to comparable I can think of is
             | the fitbits - at least their simple ones. Nobody in AR (or
             | face wearables) is playing in that space at all.
             | 
             | I think "decade lead" is unsupportable. But the article is
             | right that all of their competitors or potential
             | competitors are well behind in some combination of
             | capability in hardware, software, manufacturing, ecosystem.
             | Most of them in all categories.
        
               | jayd16 wrote:
               | More numbers in a completely different tech stack is
               | meaningless. How does a watch give you any learnings on
               | an AR headset?
        
               | ska wrote:
               | I'm not sure what argument you are trying to make. That
               | in some putative future where AR headsets become a
               | meaningful product category for wearable Apple might not
               | be in a strong position?
               | 
               | True but not really germane.
        
               | jayd16 wrote:
               | If the article isn't implying Apple is ahead in AR
               | wearables I guess I don't understand why AR wearables are
               | brought up at all.
        
       | krrrh wrote:
       | I think people underestimate how big of a factor weight is going
       | to be when it comes to face wearables. Apple's lead in terms of
       | performance/watt is so massive at this point, they're going to
       | have a few years where no other AR solution can even compete.
        
         | defaultname wrote:
         | I work in the AR space and it is incredible how much Apple is
         | preparing their entire platform for a _massive_ push into AR.
         | For years they have been laying a very robust groundwork with
         | their APIs (ARKit, RealityKit, SceneKit), the inclusion of
         | LIDAR on their iPhone 12 Pro  / iPad Pro, and likely the entire
         | iPhone 13 line. These are all things that are effectively
         | gimmicky and seem like failures with little uptake, but all of
         | it is just prepping for the inevitable headset in the very near
         | future.
         | 
         | They are going to absolutely dominate the market so completely.
        
           | krrrh wrote:
           | The addition of UWB to phones was another prime example of
           | this. It makes airdrop moderately easier now, big deal, but
           | locating objects accurately in space with high resolution is
           | a huge problem for AR, and with airtags Apple will have way
           | more experience with this technology in real world situations
           | than anyone.
        
           | setBoolean wrote:
           | That baffles me sometimes. A lot of people see some features
           | that they think of as gimmicky on their own. But then all of
           | the sudden Apple releases something new that utilizes all
           | those little features and combines them to something
           | groundbreaking.
        
         | jayd16 wrote:
         | They can't even make a pair of headphones under 300 grams.
        
           | krrrh wrote:
           | AirPods must outsell AirPod Pros by what, 100 to 1?
           | 
           | Each AirPod weighs only 4g.
        
           | dagmx wrote:
           | 260g https://www.apple.com/uk/shop/product/MXJA2ZM/A/beats-
           | studio...
        
             | jayd16 wrote:
             | Fair enough but they would have to change out the Apple
             | design language. I find it odd that we seem to assume Apple
             | would do this for a headset and not headphones though.
        
         | cmsj wrote:
         | You make an extremely good point. One could guess that a first
         | version of AR glasses would be not unlike the functionality of
         | the watch - a few Complications, some Notifications, simple
         | apps for stuff like navigation/music.
         | 
         | They have all of that, powered by a tiny system-in-package and
         | a little battery.
        
       | shados wrote:
       | I know it's not quite the same and is a lot more complicated,
       | but...
       | 
       | What was Microsoft (PocketPC) and Palm's lead in hand held
       | computing back in the days, right before Apple shit over
       | everything they did in one announcement?
       | 
       | Wearable as currently imagined kind of suck. Making them better
       | while keeping the same concept is just gonna make something that
       | sucks faster/lighter. Someone needs to come in and take the world
       | by storm with something we didn't think of yet. Maybe that will
       | STILL be Apple, but it could be someone else.
        
         | pjmlp wrote:
         | In what concerns Microsoft, if they had doubled down on WP7
         | model (Silverlight + XNA) and just opened the C and C++
         | toolchain to app developers (NDK style), instead of rebooting
         | the ecosystem multiple times, their stuff would probably still
         | be around.
        
           | MichaEiler wrote:
           | Thank you. I was wondering about this too. Breaking app
           | compatibility between WP7 and WP8 was IMHO the death sentence
           | for the platform...
        
             | pjmlp wrote:
             | Except that doing it once wasn't enough.
             | 
             | 8.0 had separate models for phone, tablet and desktop.
             | 
             | Then 8.1 unified tablet and desktop, while keeping phone
             | apart for view code, so UAP was born.
             | 
             | With Win10 everything got merged together as UWP and the
             | whole One Core marketing happened.
             | 
             | Then since the WinDev team had some score to settle, C++/CX
             | was deprecated and replaced by C++/WinRT, which to this day
             | after 4 years in development, still expects developers to
             | manually edit IDL files and the generated code without any
             | kind of Visual Studio tooling support.
             | 
             | Now they have WinUI 3.0 with 1700+ issues on Github, with
             | Project Reunion just hitting 0.8, with the very long term
             | roadmap of unifying everything, assuming it doesn't get
             | canned as well.
             | 
             | So most of us that believed on the ideas behind WinRT just
             | gave up, and went back to classical Forms/WPF/Win32.
        
       | paxys wrote:
       | That is in general a ridiculous claim to make when talking about
       | consumer technology. No company has a decade-long lead in
       | anything. If there is sufficient economic motivation competitors
       | will always catch up in a year or two. It happened for
       | smartphones, tablets, TVs, speakers, headphones, cameras, voice
       | assistants and just about everything else.
       | 
       | In case of the watch specifically I actually think there _isn 't_
       | enough motivation to innovate considering the space hasn't blown
       | up like everyone expected. If you take headphones out of the
       | picture wearables as a whole is still a relatively niche device
       | category.
        
       | newscracker wrote:
       | Pertinent point, IMO:
       | 
       | > Google I/O 2021. At its 2021 developers conference, Google
       | showed signs of finally taking wrist wearables seriously by
       | ditching Wear OS and partnering with Samsung on a new OS. While
       | it is fair to be skeptical that the effort will end up being
       | successful, the announcement was a marked change from prior
       | Google I/Os when wearables were all but ignored. Diving a bit
       | deeper into Google's announcement, it's easy to see how far
       | behind Google truly is in wearables.
       | 
       | Google completely dropped the ball on Wear OS. To add to this,
       | Qualcomm's wearable SoCs have also been lagging. Samsung is
       | generally good at keeping pace with hardware, but has been
       | hobbled by Tizen and a weak ecosystem. These things cannot change
       | overnight, and Google's stewardship track record is something
       | that doesn't improve drastically, regardless of any announcements
       | it makes.
       | 
       | For wearables as a whole, I don't believe Apple has a decade-long
       | lead though. We'll have to wait and practically see what it does
       | for AR wearables before concluding on a number.
        
       | handrous wrote:
       | I'd hesitate to put a time estimate like that on their lead in
       | anything. They've had a "decade-long" lead on a lot of things for
       | over a decade. The rest of the market (unfortunately) acts like
       | it's decided not to actually compete directly with them _at all_
       | , and to chase other segments instead, putting out products that
       | might look kind-of similar but aren't really serious alternatives
       | to most people considering the Apple version of whatever-it-is.
        
       | JKCalhoun wrote:
       | I didn't think I would like the Apple Watch as much as I do. I
       | swear, add a camera, and I'll leave my phone at home.
       | 
       | I know, it's not a mobile browser, not really much as a mobile
       | messaging device -- but that's fine. One one hand, I'm not your
       | stereotypical phone user that is always engrossed in the _black
       | mirror_ but furthermore, the Apple Watch means I am even less
       | inclined.
        
         | nostromo wrote:
         | I liked my Apple Watch for a while. Then... I forgot to wear it
         | sometimes. Then everyday.
         | 
         | I'd love to buy one again if it could hold a charge for several
         | days. But the value proposition isn't high enough for the pain
         | of daily charging.
        
           | t-writescode wrote:
           | I tend to charge mine in the shower or when I'm sitting at my
           | computer at work. It handles a day just fine with a couple
           | 30-or-hour long charges
        
         | intellix wrote:
         | Feel like I'm on the opposite side of the spectrum. I hate
         | wearing it and don't like wearing anything any kind of
         | jewellery either. Only really wearing it for sleep tracking and
         | I don't even do anything with the data. I don't really use it
         | for time and I honestly can't think of any reason to use it for
         | anything. The health stuff doesn't tell me anything is wrong
         | with me and the notifications drive me insane vibrating on my
         | wrist so I just turned it off and they've been off since.
        
           | TENACIOUSANT wrote:
           | Agreed on the haptics, a literal nightmare device with them
           | enabled. But without I find it keeps me less tethered to the
           | phone, and able to check on calls and messages during a
           | conversation without breaking the flow
        
             | t-writescode wrote:
             | Turn off all the notifications. It's way, way better
             | without them.
        
               | lotsofpulp wrote:
               | I leave the call notification on, since I feel like calls
               | are time sensitive.
        
         | rubicon33 wrote:
         | I'm in the same boat. I got the LTE connected Apple watch and I
         | absolutely LOVE it. I leave my phone AND my wallet at home
         | pretty much everywhere I go now. If I get a phone call, or a
         | text, I answer it with my watch.
         | 
         | I have phone, text, apple pay, music (spotify, pandora), maps,
         | and so much more. Probably the only thing I miss is a browser
         | to google something. But that's pretty rare that I need that.
         | 
         | The best part is that all of these apps work natively, without
         | the phone nearby, entirely over LTE or WiFi.
         | 
         | Seriously if you hate carrying around a big phone, get an LTE
         | connected Apple watch. It's a game changer.
        
       | lettergram wrote:
       | Pebble IMO was and still is the best wearable watch. I don't
       | think anything worked better largely due to the long battery life
       | and generally the e-ink design. Had they added different wrist
       | bands with smart tech in it, it would have gone even further.
       | 
       | I don't really think apple has a decade lead, what they do have
       | is minimal innovation they're competing with. AND more
       | importantly, a brand and ecosystem. That being said if Samsung
       | came out with a decent watch similar to pebble and bundled it
       | with their phones I think they'd be outselling Apple.
        
         | drewg123 wrote:
         | You should look at Garmin. They have models with battery life
         | measured in weeks, not hours like the Apple watch. My 3+ year
         | old 645 still gets 6 days of battery life.
        
           | chrisseaton wrote:
           | I use a Garmin Tactix Bravo in tactical situations and it's
           | brilliant! I think the battery lasts about two weeks.
        
           | MrMember wrote:
           | I bought an Instinct about a month ago and love it. I like
           | the G-Shock aesthetic which I know isn't for everyone but
           | it's everything I want in a watch. The battery life is
           | amazing as you said. I charge it once a week and even
           | regularly using GPS for fitness tracking it's usually at
           | around 40% (it can be extended further by using a GPS mode
           | that polls less frequently). The interface is responsive and
           | straightforward (and button based instead of touch which I
           | personally prefer). Like a G-Shock it's waterproof and
           | appears to be near indestructible. I can't see myself wanting
           | to replace it any time soon.
        
         | 333c wrote:
         | I had both the original Pebble and the Pebble Time. The battery
         | life, always-on screen, and readability in the sun made for an
         | incredibly useful experience. After my Pebble Time broke,
         | rather than switching to another smart watch I got a simple
         | "dumb" watch.
         | 
         | Frankly I don't think I'll wear another smart watch that isn't
         | a Pebble, which means I don't think I'll get another smart
         | watch.
        
         | PragmaticPulp wrote:
         | Pebble was a lot of fun for tech people who wanted a
         | minimalistic watch, but the Apple Watch is in a different
         | league altogether. The two aren't really comparable.
         | 
         | There may be a niche market for low power, hackable, e-ink
         | watches with minimal functionality, but the size of that market
         | is orders of magnitudes small than what companies like Apple
         | are addressing.
         | 
         | Pebble ultimately fizzled out because the demand just wasn't
         | there. It might be possible for an indie company to make
         | something similar if they focus on staying lean and small, but
         | it's difficult to cater to niche audiences with small TAMs
         | where the barrier to entry gets lower every year.
        
         | kentlyons wrote:
         | I'm going to miss my Pebble when it finally dies. Still wearing
         | my Kickstarter Pebble Time. One thing it did well was be a
         | watch first, as opposed to a small phone on your wrist.
         | Depending on your needs/expectations those are very different
         | wearable experiences. Sure the nice OLED is great, but clearly
         | that comes at the cost of battery life. This is especially
         | notable if you use to wear dumb watches.
        
         | Pxtl wrote:
         | This. A smartwatch must be a watch first. A watch is small,
         | always-on, and recharged rarely. Most smartwatches aren't -
         | short batteries, screens that you have to shake to wake, and
         | large.
        
           | dgarrett wrote:
           | A smartphone must be a phone first. A phone is large with a
           | comfortable earpiece, has large easy-to-press physical
           | numbers, and is plugged into the wall so it doesn't require
           | recharging.
        
         | m-p-3 wrote:
         | A refreshed version with a thin display bezel and NFC to pay
         | with NFC and I'd be sold.
         | 
         | The timeline UI makes such much sense.
        
         | flyinglizard wrote:
         | I don't get why battery life is important beyond 24h. I just
         | put the watch on its charger at night. Only downside is during
         | traveling, one more thing to carry and possibly the watch won't
         | make it through excruciating international travel.
         | 
         | So it won't matter to me if the watch lasts a day or a week,
         | it's off my wrist when I sleep and goes on it's charger.
        
           | kentlyons wrote:
           | Several years ago I did some research (published paper here:
           | http://kentlyons.net/pubs/dumbwatch-iswc15.pdf) and one of
           | the findings I thought was interesting was there were 3
           | groups of people that implied different battery needs. One
           | seemed similar to what you describe: people that took their
           | watch off at night (so could charge it then). Another group
           | wore their watch 24/7. And the final group which I wasn't
           | expecting, but made sense in retrospect, was people that only
           | wore their watch when out of the house. When they got home
           | they'd take it off like setting down their keys.
        
           | btowngar wrote:
           | I'm T1 diabetic and use my watch for monitoring my glucose
           | levels. I wear it 100% of the time, aside from showering when
           | it charges. Charging quickly and having a minimum of 24hrs of
           | charge is really important to me. Apple Watch hits both of
           | those.
        
             | ValentineC wrote:
             | Do you have a separate accessory for monitoring glucose?
             | I'm really looking forward to the Series 7 which is
             | rumoured to have blood glucose monitoring.
        
           | cozzyd wrote:
           | If you want to track your sleep that doesn't work so well
        
             | usaphp wrote:
             | I never understood the point of tracking your sleep or even
             | steps. It's not like knowing that I had N hours of deep
             | sleep will somehow change my sleep the following night.
             | Same with steps, it's pretty easy to understand without a
             | tracker when you were active and when you weren't.
        
               | abawany wrote:
               | For me, it's the nags (e.g. Garmin's 'time to be active')
               | that make it worthwhile to get me out of my groove. Also,
               | the sleep tracking includes things such as SpO2
               | measurement, which can help one see if changing sleep
               | positions makes a difference. I feel somewhat confident
               | in saying that my Garmins have likely extended my life by
               | a few years.
        
               | handrous wrote:
               | I think people use them to: 1) figure out what's
               | affecting their sleep quality, not necessarily just
               | duration, and 2) trigger alarms within a window, rather
               | than at a specific time, when the device registers that
               | they're between REM sleep cycles so waking up to the
               | alarm is less shocking and unpleasant, and 3) have an
               | alarm or pager-duty-type alert that doesn't bother anyone
               | in the bed with them.
        
               | graeme wrote:
               | What gets measured gets managed. Both my fitness and
               | sleep improved after tracking.
               | 
               | At the start I was able to use the sleep tracking to
               | troubleshoot sleep issues and improve. After that, it's
               | mostly a warning system for when I may need to nap later
               | (and thus plan for it) or make sure to get to bed early.
               | 
               | The steps are also a fun social thing. My dad and I talk
               | about them and have streaks of 10,000. If we handle our
               | days well, that's what we'd get anyway. But somedays, you
               | slack. Being accountable to each other is a fun game and
               | we walk more and are happier for it.
               | 
               | The key to this kind of tracking is you mostly _don't_
               | think of it. It happens automatically in the background.
        
             | graeme wrote:
             | Everyone says this without trying it. I wear my Apple Watch
             | to sleep. In the morning I shower and charge it. It is
             | fully charged and lasts till next morning.
        
               | PragmaticPulp wrote:
               | No problems here either. Lately I just wear it in the
               | shower and charge it for a while when I sit down at my
               | desk to work. It charges fast enough and I don't miss out
               | on any activity tracking while I'm typing away at my
               | desk.
               | 
               | I plug my phone in to charge at the same time. It's
               | really not a big deal.
               | 
               | The only time it might matter is if I was doing a weekend
               | camping trip or something, at which point the connected
               | features of the Apple watch are less useful and a
               | minimalistic Garmin would make more sense.
        
               | maxerickson wrote:
               | You missed their meaning. They meant that taking your
               | watch off overnight to charge it gets in the way of sleep
               | tracking.
               | 
               | Edit: People aren't reading carefully.
               | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27321770 clearly
               | means what I've stated and then the parent says that they
               | must not have tried charging their watch at some other
               | time.
        
         | gnicholas wrote:
         | Still loving my Pebble, but sad as I've watched the battery
         | life dwindle to ~4 days. I even put my phone in airplane mode
         | overnight, which has extended it a bit. Does anyone else have
         | any tips on how to make a Time Steel last?
         | 
         | (I considered putting the Pebble into airplane mode, but it
         | seems to be less reliable reconnecting to the phone if I do
         | this.)
         | 
         | What do Pebble-lovers get if they don't want an Apple Watch? I
         | was hopeful about the Fossil hybrid smartwatches, but the UI
         | just wasn't there (two clicks to see more of a message?).
         | Garmin is on my list, but they have so many models I can't tell
         | which ones are best, or where they are in their upgrade cycles.
        
           | modeless wrote:
           | I recently replaced the battery in my Pebble Time Round.
           | Replacements are on iFixIt. It's not easy, but not impossible
           | either. For me, it's well worth another 5+ years of use while
           | I wait for someone, anyone, to make a decent competitor.
        
             | gnicholas wrote:
             | Awesome. How does it affect water resistance?
        
               | modeless wrote:
               | I re-sealed mine with Sugru. It is as waterproof as it
               | was before, as far as I can tell. Unfortunately I used
               | too much and some of it got squashed under the glass so
               | it's slightly visible. It's really hard to use the
               | correct (very small) amount. There are other adhesive
               | options that I haven't tried.
        
         | jollybean wrote:
         | And BlackBerry was always the best for communications.
         | 
         | I think we're confusing 1) tech 2) product 3)
         | marketing/positioning and 4) brand.
         | 
         | All of that together, Apple has a very powerful entrenched
         | lead.
         | 
         | They can launch almost anything and own the category, the are
         | firing on all pieces.
         | 
         | Google doesn't have either the supply chain, distribution or
         | hardware-product discipline.
         | 
         | And who else is going take on Apple's machine?
         | 
         | So from a tech perspective, it's doubtful they are '10 years
         | ahead' but from an operational perspective, it sure feels that
         | way.
        
         | emsy wrote:
         | I had several pebbles (2 b/w and the colored one) and now have
         | an apple watch. You don't know what you're talking about, the
         | tech in the apple watch is years ahead. There's much to
         | criticize about the apple watch but it does the important
         | things just so much better than the competition. I also never
         | understood the focus on battery life. I put my watch on the
         | charger whenever I go to sleep. If I forget it either still has
         | more than 50% charge or I can charge it quickly. I don't care
         | for edge cases (camping etc.)
        
           | lilactown wrote:
           | One of the few things I used my smart-ish watch for is
           | tracking my sleep.
           | 
           | Without a large screen and turning off all notifications, I
           | get about 3-4 weeks of battery with my current watch.
           | Personally I rarely take it off.
           | 
           | I'd like at least a week of battery if I were to adopt any
           | other smart watch. For me personally, I enjoy thinking less
           | about the battery of a device that I mostly use for passive
           | personal data collection and telling the time.
        
           | rubicon33 wrote:
           | You must not care about sleep tracking? That's why I find
           | battery life annoying on the apple watch, it always runs out
           | by the end of the day. Luckily, it does charge really fast so
           | 30 min before falling asleep and its back on.
        
             | cglace wrote:
             | Do you have series 6?
        
               | rubicon33 wrote:
               | Yes I do, and I use it for a number of things including
               | sleep tracking which its great at.
        
           | renewiltord wrote:
           | I love my Apple Watch but the battery life thing is annoying
           | because I do want to wear it to bed so the alarm can fire
           | without waking a sleeping companion.
        
           | amatecha wrote:
           | I mean, sure the Apple Watch is "years ahead". It not only
           | came out two years later, but is developed by one of the most
           | wealthy consumer tech/software companies in the world. Pebble
           | was acquired by FitBit right around the time the second
           | iteration of the Apple Watch was out, so there's really not
           | much point in comparing the two in terms of technology.
           | 
           | Despite Apple Watch's merits over the Pebble, I still miss my
           | Pebble watches. The thing I actually miss the most is the
           | physical buttons, so I can switch the currently-playing song
           | with my watch without having to look at it. Having nearly all
           | interaction with the Apple Watch being a touch screen is one
           | big downside IMO -- still something it hasn't really "beaten"
           | vs. Pebble Watch :)
        
             | psychomugs wrote:
             | I feel the same way with regards to the physical buttons,
             | so easy to control by feel. I'd pay decent money for a
             | phone case with external buttons for pausing/playing and
             | other quick access functions.
        
             | emsy wrote:
             | The actual buttons on the pebble were terrible though but I
             | do agree, it really sucks that this isn't possible. I
             | remember having a jailbreak tweak that allowed to use long
             | presses on volume up/down to skip songs. Something like
             | this could be done with the crown on the watch but we're
             | talking about apple, so don't even think about using the
             | physical inputs for something useful.
        
             | usaphp wrote:
             | > can switch the currently-playing song with my watch
             | without having to look at it
             | 
             | Why would you need to look at your watch? If you are
             | listening to music on your Apple Watch - you are probably
             | using headphones, all of which have next/prev buttons or
             | gestures.
        
               | [deleted]
        
           | salamandersauce wrote:
           | What is years ahead? It has a better SoC than competing
           | watches for sure but what's the point? I wouldn't be
           | surprised if the first Apple Watch has a faster SoC than my
           | Fenix 5 Plus but other than the time it takes for it to make
           | up a random running route I don't really care because the
           | device feels snappy. My Pebble felt snappy too. I think other
           | than EKG (don't care about that) my Fenix has all the same
           | sensors, GPS, NFC for payments, HR monitor, accelerometer,
           | altimeter, WiFi, bluetooth etc. I do wish it was a little
           | more open like Pebble to get some of those weird little apps
           | back though.
           | 
           | To me, a power hungry OLED touch screen seems like doing the
           | important things wrong. It's harder to see in the sun,
           | doesn't work with gloves or when it's cold, you need to
           | actually LOOK at it to do something like pause music or
           | change the album.
        
             | dagmx wrote:
             | A better SoC usually means better power efficiency, where
             | the speed means it can get through tasks faster under the
             | same wattage, so it helps battery life.
        
               | salamandersauce wrote:
               | Which is then completely blown by the screen anyways?
               | It's not like you're tearing up complicated calculations
               | on your watch. This makes sense on other devices but not
               | so much on a watch. My Garmin lasts a week with the
               | screen always on, several hours of GPS on and music
               | playing during workouts. The most draining thing is
               | music.
        
               | dagmx wrote:
               | Yes but those screen features are what some people ask
               | for (and always on can be disabled).
               | 
               | The watch also does do quite a bit of processing on
               | device, especially cellular ones. It's quite a different
               | beast than the Garmin, even though they have crossover
        
             | emsy wrote:
             | The functionality. I can use it as a flashlight, call,
             | dictate messages, listen to music without phone, control my
             | phone camera, use it for 2FA, map navigation, notifications
             | with images and control smart home stuff. And yes, much of
             | this convenience is due to the walled garden. I never had
             | issues reading the screen, which I did have with my color
             | screen pebble.
        
               | salamandersauce wrote:
               | I can do most of that on my Garmin. Really only stuff
               | that requires mic is not doable because it doesn't have a
               | mic. And I guess notifications "with images". Heck some
               | of it like 2FA I did on my Pebble!
        
               | emsy wrote:
               | I can't compare with the Garmin, but the Pebble
               | experience was subpar. I stopped wearing mine after a few
               | weeks and gifted them to my mother after a while (she
               | loved the pebbles but had constant issues with
               | connectivity on Android). On the other hand, I expected
               | to return my Apple Watch (it was an impulse buy due to a
               | discount). But it really grew on me. It's actually a "it
               | just works" product (which I can't say of a lot of Apple
               | products these days). A friend of mine has a Garmin, but
               | afaik he can't do much with notifications. On the other
               | hand I have quick replies, voice to text or depending on
               | the app quick actions. That's just not in the same
               | ballpark. Do I need it? No. But it's really convenient
               | once you got used to it. I don't know how many times I
               | set the timer with Siri because my hands were full or
               | dirty. If a second SIM card wasn't so pricey in Germany I
               | would probably get one and leave my mobile at home most
               | of the time.
        
               | salamandersauce wrote:
               | Yeah, quick replies only work if you have Android with
               | Garmin and other smart watches because Apple doesn't let
               | them.
               | 
               | The only thing I really hate about the Garmin is that
               | they kneecap CJK support by region locking it.
        
               | ValentineC wrote:
               | > _If a second SIM card wasn't so pricey in Germany I
               | would probably get one and leave my mobile at home most
               | of the time._
               | 
               | This reminds me: it's silly that the Apple Watch eSIM has
               | to be from the same provider as one's iPhone, and some
               | providers which offer a phone eSIM don't support
               | provisioning it for the Apple Watch, and vice versa.
        
           | soneil wrote:
           | I know you said you don't care about camping, but I have to
           | point out it's simply not as big a problem as people like to
           | imagine either. I take a battery to charge my phone for maps
           | anyway. The big difference between charging my watch camping,
           | and charging my watch at home, is when I'm camping, I put it
           | on the charger and take it off when it hits 80%. I don't just
           | leave it there while I sleep.
           | 
           | 5-8 days on 1 or 2 powerbanks is normal. Most people hiking
           | more than that are going to find somewhere to stop and charge
           | (and restock food) at least that often anyway. Truly hitting
           | wilderness for 2+ weeks is the actual edge case where I'd
           | want to leave my watch at home.
        
           | nickbauman wrote:
           | The sleep monitor is amazing this doesn't work for me.
        
           | thekyle wrote:
           | > I put my watch on the charger whenever I go to sleep.
           | 
           | One of the things that always confused me about the Apple
           | Watch (and other smartwatches) is that they market them as
           | sleep tracking devices, but if you do use it for that purpose
           | then I'm not sure when you're supposed to charge it. I guess
           | you could charge it during a morning (or evening) shower but
           | is ~30 minutes a day of charging enough?
        
             | leokennis wrote:
             | I charge it for 30 minutes while I get ready for bed and
             | for 15 minutes in the morning while I dress and brush my
             | teeth. For the other 23 hours and 15 minutes I wear it.
             | I've yet to see it dip below 30% (except for days when I do
             | all day hikes and have my outdoors map + gps tracking on
             | the watch).
             | 
             | So I could probably make do with just the 30 minute charge
             | in the evening.
             | 
             | Before Apple Watch I used (in order) a Jawbone Up, a Fitbit
             | don't know the name and a Garmin Vivofit. All three are by
             | far way crummier than an Apple Watch. Both in comfort,
             | build quality and functionality.
        
             | ValentineC wrote:
             | > _I guess you could charge it during a morning (or
             | evening) shower but is ~30 minutes a day of charging
             | enough?_
             | 
             | As someone who does this, yes. (It's more like twice a day,
             | roughly ~30 minutes each.)
             | 
             | If it helps, I also usually turn on cinema mode on my
             | Series 5 before I go to sleep.
        
               | d3nj4l wrote:
               | You can set up sleep timings in the watch app on iPhone
               | and the watch will automatically enter sleep mode in that
               | range. It'll mute notifications etc. as well, and give
               | you a sweet notification on your iPhone when it's done
               | charging.
        
       | CoolGuySteve wrote:
       | Around 10 years ago I wrote a Linux driver for the OCZ Nia, a
       | super cheap EMG device. The Nia was actually a $10k medical
       | device for paralyzed people to control computers with their face
       | and tongue repurposed as a gaming input and sold for $120.
       | 
       | While I'm certain the technology has advanced, what surprises me
       | most is how basic these finger reading devices seem. They're
       | basically some electrodes on your skin near major nerve centers
       | and a little bit of signal processing, like barely any signal
       | processing.
       | 
       | It's about time this technology entered the mainstream. I was
       | waiting for VR with occular/vagus nerve sensing for depth of
       | field emulation but I guess hand sensors are the next best thing.
        
         | leoc wrote:
         | There was also the Myo armband by Thalmic Labs, later North,
         | later a division of Google. Apparently it didn't work very well
         | though.
        
         | maxerickson wrote:
         | The implementation shown in the video strikes me very much as
         | an accessibility feature (which is a fine thing). By
         | comparison, pressing the stateful stop button on my exercise
         | watch is quick and straightforward.
        
       | tengbretson wrote:
       | Aside from some niche health-focused areas, the only value prop
       | that wearables currently have to most people is in tech ecosystem
       | integration. This just so happens to be an area where apple is
       | head and shoulders above their competition.
        
       | makecheck wrote:
       | Apple's lead seems to be more in tangential things that are very
       | hard to replicate: Apple Pay, supporting the highly popular
       | iMessage, etc. These can never work with any other device.
       | 
       | There are definite flaws in the device. I find buttons
       | unnecessarily hard to tap for instance (they should offer more
       | vertical space), and the face is so sensitive that it routinely
       | triggers unwanted actions. It is really annoying to start
       | something I _want_ (like a timer) and notice some time later that
       | I somehow accidentally _stopped_ the timer by hitting my watch on
       | something.
       | 
       | As far as 3rd parties, I have seen a general trend of apps
       | gradually withdrawing their support for watchOS. There just
       | aren't that many useful things to do on a small surface. For apps
       | suited to this (timers, reminders, etc.) it is fine.
        
         | smoldesu wrote:
         | Yep. Apple's game has always been marking up marginal utility,
         | and that's ultimately what you pay for here.
        
         | nradov wrote:
         | Apple Pay isn't much of an advantage. Samsung and Garmin have
         | the same thing.
        
           | samfisher83 wrote:
           | When Samsung had mst they had a pretty big lead on the
           | competition, but seems like they dropped it.
        
           | s3r3nity wrote:
           | Can't use Garmin pay to pay for train / bus fare, or at least
           | not as widely as Apple Pay.
        
           | simonh wrote:
           | They have competing products, they don't have competitive
           | products. There's an important difference.
        
           | dna_polymerase wrote:
           | Can't speak for U.S. banks, but in Europe more banks seem to
           | support Apple Pay than Garmin.
        
         | rubicon33 wrote:
         | To start a timer, raise your watch to your mouth and simply say
         | "start 1 hour timer".
         | 
         | You don't even need to say "hey Siri". It starts listening on
         | the gesture of raising it to your mouth. Genius.
         | 
         | Raise watch to mouth and try things...
         | 
         | "Text Danielle ____" "Open Pandora" "Open wallet"
         | 
         | There are also settings to disable active watch face unless
         | it's raised. I have that enabled and never have issues
         | accidentally hitting it. Check your settings and let me know if
         | that helps.
        
           | varispeed wrote:
           | Do they collect this information somehow? I mean by wearing
           | this device and using e.g. a timer, do Apple employees can
           | find out for example how often did particular person use the
           | timer and for how long?
        
           | tshaddox wrote:
           | The raise-and-speak feature is extremely unreliable. It seems
           | to refuse to trigger if you've interacted with the watch in
           | the last few seconds, so if you try to speak to it and it
           | doesn't trigger, it certainly won't trigger when you
           | immediately try again.
           | 
           | It also triggers all the time accidentally when my watch was
           | nowhere near my mouth. I frequently look at the watch and see
           | a message like "I don't understand that" with a transcription
           | of something it thinks I said.
           | 
           | "Hey Siri" is also unreliable, mostly because if you hesitate
           | for a few too many milliseconds it thinks you've finished
           | your query. I almost exclusively use Siri by holding the
           | power button on my iPhone or Apple Watch.
        
       | jpm_sd wrote:
       | Google put a ton of R&D effort into gesture sensing with short
       | range radar (Soli) but it doesn't seem to have gone much of
       | anywhere as yet. I don't think this type of interface is as
       | important as the author claims.
       | 
       | https://atap.google.com/soli/
        
         | valine wrote:
         | Google's gesture sensing went nowhere because it was laughably
         | bad. It routinely failed to recognize gestures, was poorly
         | integrated into the OS, and couldn't even be sold in several
         | countries because of its use of radar.
        
         | judge2020 wrote:
         | It was such a gimmick on the Pixel 4, probably because it
         | required you position your hand over your phone. However, if
         | you can just make the gesture of turning a knob regardless of
         | your hand position (which a wearable probably could do), that
         | seems like it'd have a use case.
        
       | gnu8 wrote:
       | The article seems to be saying that Apple has a decade-long lead
       | in wearables over a list of companies that don't even make
       | wearables. That is a clever trick for giving the article a bold
       | title, but the result is a fairly uninteresting and uninformative
       | Apple jerk-off piece. It is akin to saying "Quaker Oats has a
       | 150-year lead in edibles" where Apple doesn't even make food.
        
         | snowwrestler wrote:
         | So who are the most capable competitors to Apple in wearables?
         | 
         | Among my friends and colleagues, those who don't buy Apple
         | Watch often buy Garmin watches instead. In the area of fitness
         | tracking watches, Garmin seems to be serious competition. It's
         | missing the full app ecosystem of Apple Watch but I think you
         | can send messages and email to some Garmin watches over 4G, for
         | example.
        
           | blinkingled wrote:
           | I have been using the Samsung Gear Active 2 for few months
           | and it is pretty good. Battery lasts couple days. it does
           | everything I need and the UI is pretty good and simple.
        
           | MichaEiler wrote:
           | Around here (Austria/Switzerland, Country Side) people only
           | wear smart watches for fitness purposes. Meaning most folks
           | buy Garmin or Suunto devices. Another reason might be that
           | the market share of Apple is lower in general compared to the
           | US/UK.
           | 
           | Personally I love my Garmin Fenix watch. It lasts a week with
           | light usage or up to 18 hours when using GPS. It also offers
           | NFC payment. Notifications might be supported but I honestly
           | don't need yet another device to bother me with messages and
           | such... Meaning I disabled all of them ;).
           | 
           | On another note: Apple might simply be successful because of
           | consistency. They've been iterating and improving on there
           | smartwatch platform for years whiles others change their
           | whole product every few years (samsung) or simply neglect it
           | (google).
        
           | deepGem wrote:
           | As a current Apple watch owner I was tempted to get a Garmin,
           | just for the battery life. It is super annoying to remember
           | to charge the Apple watch every 20 hours or so. I wish Apple
           | got around to offering better battery life than adding
           | features.
           | 
           | I finally caved and bought an automatic. I just want a watch
           | to show me the time accurately, last long and offer good
           | water resistance as I wear the watch all the time.
        
             | snowwrestler wrote:
             | Personally, the watch I grab most these days is a good ol'
             | Timex Ironman. I pretty much only wear a watch when
             | exercising and pretty much only care about the time while
             | doing so.
        
           | smoldesu wrote:
           | Fossil is a pretty significant player in the industry, I own
           | their Carlyle 5 model.
        
           | nradov wrote:
           | Garmin is now #2 in smartwatch market share. Fitness tracking
           | features are generally superior to Apple but there are few
           | useful 3rd-party apps. Currently only one Garmin watch has
           | some limited LTE support so they generally need a smartphone
           | Bluetooth connection for messages. Rumors say they'll be
           | launching additional LTE models soon.
        
         | bitwize wrote:
         | In 10 years or so, everybody will have to have a wearables
         | story -- because of the market for them Apple created.
        
         | red_trumpet wrote:
         | Yeah, the Apple Watch isn't even 10 years old...
        
       | stephc_int13 wrote:
       | I strongly disagree.
       | 
       | Apple is selling a ton of watches because the brand is currently
       | so strong that it's a no brainer for most people.
       | 
       | Also, the product is actually not bad.
       | 
       | But, I don't find it attractive, I think the rectangular design
       | was an early mistake that will hinder their design for a long
       | time.
       | 
       | The software look good mostly because Google did a really poor
       | job when porting Android to this form factor.
       | 
       | This is not the end of the story, and it won't need 10 years for
       | competitors to catch up.
        
         | dijit wrote:
         | I disagree with your disagreement.
         | 
         | Though I also disagree with the article itself, but for one
         | particular reason: I don't think it'll be nearly 10 years to
         | catch up.
         | 
         | I was skittish on the idea of a watch I have to charge (nearly)
         | every day, but it really has improved my life, in fact it's
         | _nearly_ to the point where I don't need a phone.. since I can
         | pay, take calls, respond to messages, play music (though, not
         | browse the web or take photos) without having my phone anywhere
         | near me.. I've trialled entire days with no phone and it's
         | worked pretty well honestly.
         | 
         | There's nothing coming close to this anywhere else.
         | 
         | But, I think people catch up easier than they lead.
         | 
         | A decade lead is absolutely unthinkable- if google/samsung
         | wants to do wearables seriously I think it'll be 2 years at
         | most -- especially as they're almost certainly working on it
         | already, and they can use the product that's already on the
         | market as a meter to measure against for anything they're
         | building.
        
           | hinkley wrote:
           | Most days I can put it on the charger when I get in the
           | shower, and put it back on when I grab my keys and wallet.
           | It's not like you have to charge it over night. Half hour
           | will last you quite a while.
        
             | dijit wrote:
             | Depends a lot on the model and usage; I did that too (after
             | recommendations from my friend) but ended up with low power
             | warnings fairly often.
             | 
             | And now of course the battery has significantly lower
             | capacity than new, or the OS is much heavier. The watch was
             | charged while I took a shower after the gym this afternoon.
             | Was fully charged this morning. It's currently on 37% at
             | 19:51.
             | 
             | (for context, my watch is a 44mm (or, large) series 4)
        
       | melling wrote:
       | Apple needs a little competition. I expected the Watch to advance
       | much quicker.
       | 
       | 6 years ago I wrote this blog saying everyone would be wearing a
       | smart watch within a decade. My reasons were "health and safety"
       | 
       | https://h4labs.wordpress.com/2015/07/28/in-the-future-everyo...
       | 
       | " There has been much discussion on the need for smart watches
       | like the Apple Watch. People have a hard time believing that a
       | large market exists. I can't say with certainty that you'll be
       | wearing an Apple Watch a decade from now but you'll definitely be
       | wearing a smart watch from Apple, Google, or some new kid on the
       | block."
        
         | pram wrote:
         | Looks like you were wrong.
        
           | melling wrote:
           | Yes, smart watches haven't advanced as much as I thought they
           | would.
           | 
           | Apple needs competition. They wouldn't make large screen
           | iPhones until Android started winning, for example.
           | 
           | Hopefully we get there. There's a lot of promise in
           | wearables:
           | 
           | https://med.stanford.edu/news/all-news/2020/12/smartwatch-
           | ca...
        
       | amelius wrote:
       | I've seen kickstarter projects with better wearables.
        
         | farco12 wrote:
         | Do you mind sharing some examples that have shipped?
        
       | spamizbad wrote:
       | Nokia had a decade-long lead in mobile phones.
        
       | whywhywhywhy wrote:
       | I'm not convinced the wearable market has been cracked at all.
       | 
       | I feel when it finally is we'll roll our eyes at the current day
       | smartphone concept.
        
       | grouphugs wrote:
       | all that data goes straight to the police, this is beyond a
       | dangerous warning, not celebratory
        
       | least wrote:
       | I'm pretty skeptical that Apple has a decade-long lead on any of
       | the other big players in the market. Any innovations that one
       | company can make can be more quickly adopted than new innovations
       | occur and there's nothing as far as software goes that Apple is
       | uniquely positioned to create. The other factors mentioned such
       | as silicon tech being years ahead of the competition is one that
       | is hardly a factor for the smart watch category.
       | 
       | On the other hand this is always the case and Apple's been the
       | best at creating a general consumer wearable that appeals to the
       | masses. Its integration into the apple ecosystem is a big selling
       | point and that's probably the biggest factor that is basically
       | impossible for competitors to replicate.
       | 
       | On a tangential note, I'd like to take a moment to recognize the
       | amount of work that Apple has put into its accessibility
       | features. Assistive Touch on the apple watch will probably serve
       | a remarkably small portion of the user base and perhaps costs
       | more to develop than the return they'll ever see on it. Still,
       | year after year Apple keeps advancing accessibility features in
       | all of its products. This is definitely an area where big tech
       | companies like Apple and Microsoft excel at.
        
         | Mandatum wrote:
         | The software side, they're so far ahead it's ridiculous. Google
         | couldn't put out a watch to match the generation 3 Apple Watch
         | today. They probably couldn't even do that in 2-3 years. Same
         | goes for Microsoft's and Amazon.
        
         | solarkraft wrote:
         | > On a tangential note, I'd like to take a moment to recognize
         | the amount of work that Apple has put into its accessibility
         | features. Assistive Touch on the apple watch will probably
         | serve a remarkably small portion of the user base
         | 
         | On a similar note I'd like to point out that accessibility
         | affects everyone. You don't need to be disabled to enjoy
         | accessibility. My eyes are fine, (I think), but I find the
         | iPhone X's lowest screen brightness too bright iOS's blue
         | filter to be barely effective, so I use a custom color filter
         | (almost full red) and "Reduce white point" and am super happy
         | it's an option. People used and probably use assistive touch
         | for things that don't compensate a disability, but just add
         | useful features. The back tap shortcuts are just a nice
         | feature. The zoom is nice if you want to show something to
         | someone a bit further away. I could go on.
         | 
         | As someone with perfectly fine hands I _love_ this feature
         | because one thing I hate about modern smart watches (RIP
         | Pebble) is that you have to touch and inevitably smudge up the
         | screen. Bam, problem single-handedly (what pun are you talking
         | about?) solved. Massive kudos. The other, more obvious
         | advantage is that your other hand stays free, of course.
         | 
         | > and perhaps costs more to develop than the return they'll
         | ever see on it.
         | 
         | As you see, the user base for such features is bigger than you
         | may think. Besides collecting some easy sympathy points for
         | helping disadvantaged people, Apple also seems to be huge in
         | the business of servicing small, but under-served and vocal
         | minorities (where can someone who wants a modern, small phone
         | go?), which will turn into strong advocates for their brand.
        
           | dhosek wrote:
           | When I showed the designers at a company I worked at a few
           | years ago how to enable screen zoom, they found it an
           | imminently useful tool. Once enabled, ctrl-scroll zooms
           | in/out on the display which is very useful for being able to
           | check pixel-level details on, say, an HTML render.
        
         | Fomite wrote:
         | I'm skeptical anyone has a decade long lead on anything in the
         | consumer electronics space.
        
           | criddell wrote:
           | When Tesla was starting up I was skeptical that they could
           | overcome GM and Ford's century-long lead in car
           | manufacturing.
        
         | efields wrote:
         | Your last p contradicts the first. Part of what makes apple
         | products so good is the software, the depth and complexity of
         | things like Assistive Touch doesn't happen in a few sprints.
         | 
         | Their software isn't perfect, but it's so thorough that it
         | allows them to do levels of polish that competitors have a hard
         | time catching up to.
        
           | least wrote:
           | Once a feature is shown off in the real world it usually
           | doesn't take long to replicate its functionality to an
           | acceptable level. This give Apple a lead in that respect, but
           | not years of a lead.
        
         | whynotminot wrote:
         | > silicon tech being years ahead of the competition is one that
         | is hardly a factor for the smart watch category.
         | 
         | What? This doesn't even make sense. This is by far the _most_
         | important lead Apple has.
         | 
         | Their ability to put performant and efficient chips into tiny
         | devices is _why_ they have such a software edge. Other Android
         | wearables suck because the underlying hardware is not able to
         | power the experience without significant compromises.
         | 
         | It's not an accident that WatchOS is vastly better than
         | competing Android offerings. It's hardware driving software
         | possibilities.
        
           | smoldesu wrote:
           | I don't really agree. I've owned a Fossil Carlyle 5
           | smartwatch with WearOS and an Apple Watch 3, and Apple's lead
           | is definitely on the software side of things. I actually
           | really dislike the material build of the Apple watch. The
           | screen is designed to expose as much of the surface area as
           | possible to scuffs and scratches, while the body of the watch
           | feels larger than any other smartwatch I've used. The Apple
           | Watch got hotter than the Fossil, somehow, and the sensor
           | bump is also much more pronounced.
           | 
           | Anyways, it's not like this is up for debate anyhow. Ask any
           | analyst who's watched the industry for the last decade,
           | they'll still tell you that Apple's advantage is in the
           | software world. If iMessage and MacOS were available on other
           | hardware, Apple would be selling two crazy handfuls of
           | nothing to customers. The average consumer doesn't care if
           | their laptop has faulty graphics, a keyboard failing en-masse
           | or soldered storage. They just want the little blue bubble to
           | pop up when they send a message from their computer.
           | Recognizing that, Apple arguably makes more compromises than
           | anyone else in the industry. Their concept of "iteration"
           | really only involves bringing their product to the next most
           | common denominator.
        
             | Aaargh20318 wrote:
             | > Apple's lead is definitely on the software side of
             | things.
             | 
             | It's their lead in hardware that makes that software
             | possible.
        
             | whynotminot wrote:
             | > I don't really agree. I've owned a Fossil Carlyle 5
             | smartwatch with WearOS and an Apple Watch 3, and Apple's
             | lead is definitely on the software side of things.
             | 
             | I don't disagree that the lead is in software. I'm saying
             | it's also in Hardware too. You're making comparisons to the
             | Apple Watch 3--that came out more than three and a half
             | years ago. It's not helping your point that you feel the
             | hardware for your android watch is in the same ballpark as
             | Apple's oldest supported piece.
             | 
             | > Ask any analyst who's watched the industry for the last
             | decade, they'll still tell you that Apple's advantage is in
             | the software world
             | 
             | Please don't willfully miss my point. I'm agreeing with you
             | that Apple has a software advantage. I'm telling you the
             | software advantage exists in no small part due to the
             | hardware advantage. Apple's SoC prowess is a massive
             | advantage.
             | 
             | >If iMessage and MacOS were available on other hardware,
             | Apple would be selling two crazy handfuls of nothing to
             | customers.
             | 
             | Are we talking about the watch or not?
             | 
             | >They just want the little blue bubble to pop up when they
             | send a message from their computer.
             | 
             | Damnit. If you had started with this line I would have
             | known to not bother reading more of your post.
        
           | aphextron wrote:
           | "People who are really serious about software should make
           | their own hardware"
        
             | GeorgeTirebiter wrote:
             | what folks don't seem to grasp is that hardware _is_
             | (conceptually) software, except it much harder to change...
             | 
             | And it works the other way, too, c.f. Lisp Machine.
             | 
             | And then there were mainframes B6700 had loadable microcode
             | that 'swapped in' different instructions depending on the
             | higher-level language being run: http://www.retrocomputingt
             | asmania.com/home/projects/burrough...
        
         | burnte wrote:
         | The whole article is viewing things through some heavily tinted
         | glasses.
         | 
         | 1. Apple was early - Nope, Apple came late to the party, years
         | after first movers were there.
         | 
         | 2. Voice computing distraction - Again, nope. Amazon Echo
         | devices and Google Home devices are HUGE. Headphones and
         | earbugs come with Alexa and google Assistant integration. Apple
         | tries with Siri but it's consistently far behind Amazon and
         | Google there.
         | 
         | 3. Wearables require design expertise. It's not enough to just
         | throw together some leftover smartphone components and ship
         | wearables. -- Yet, that's what Apple did with the first gen of
         | Apple watch. Gen 1 was also dead in three years. Gen 1 was a
         | pilot project.
         | 
         | 4. Ecosystem and technology advantage. - These are Apple
         | advantages, but not ten year leads.
         | 
         | 5. No price and feature umbrellas under Apple. - Well, there
         | are a lot of people still wondering what utility they have
         | aside from a few "health" measures. I personally don't care
         | about my heartrate all day, nor my steps, or a bad idea of
         | calories burned. I don't need to monitor my O2 levels, nor get
         | instant EKGs. I personally stuggle to see the point of smart
         | watches. Notifications? I can see them on the phone screen,
         | it's just as easy for me to look at it. Music controls? If I'm
         | in the car the controls are on my steering wheel. At home I
         | just say "Alexa, stop" or whatever. When I have
         | headphones/earbugs in? I can tap the button on my headphones
         | just as easily as I can tap my watch. What else would I use it
         | for?
         | 
         | There certain is a price umbrella, too, because you have to
         | have an iPhone and be bought into that ecosystem.
        
           | lscotte wrote:
           | It's unfortunate that the Apple cult has enough power on YC
           | to downvoted anything that's not positive towards it. Sad
           | that only pro-Apple opinions are allowed here.
        
           | D13Fd wrote:
           | I was with you until #5.
           | 
           | The Apple Watch is very useful. That's why people keep buying
           | it.
           | 
           | It's nice to get notifications on your wrist if you don't
           | have your phone out 100% of the time. The alarms are silent
           | and dead simple to set, and it can function as your wake up
           | alarm in the morning, and sync with your phone as a backup
           | alarm. It lets you unlock your phone while wearing a mask. It
           | lets you pay for things instantly without taking your phone
           | or wallet out.
           | 
           | If you are someone who exercises, the utility goes up even
           | more. It's great to control your podcast or music while out
           | walking or running without digging around in your phone. It's
           | perfect for tracking your workouts, because it's always on
           | your arm and it tracks your heart rate.
           | 
           | I agree that the EKG & O2 level features are pretty much a
           | gimmick. But the watch generally is an exceptional piece of
           | technology.
        
             | CharlesW wrote:
             | > _I agree that the EKG & O2 level features are pretty much
             | a gimmick. But the watch generally is an exceptional piece
             | of technology._
             | 
             | They are until they aren't, you know?
             | https://www.cnet.com/news/apple-watch-lifesaving-health-
             | feat...
        
               | D13Fd wrote:
               | None of those people were saved by the EKG or O2 features
               | (other than that one person noticed a slow heartbeat
               | while playing with the EKG feature). They are talking
               | about the "fall detection feature, heart rate
               | notifications, exercise tracking and even the ability to
               | make a call from your wrist."
        
             | JohnTHaller wrote:
             | > It lets you unlock your phone while wearing a mask.
             | 
             | I'm really glad I passed on the Pixel 4, mainly because I
             | hated the concept of face unlock on a phone (slower and
             | less reliable? sounds great!). And this was before the age
             | of masks. I love having a fingerprint reader on the back.
             | The phone is unlocked as it's coming out of my pocket.
             | Google switched back with the 4a and 5 so I picked up a 4a
             | 5G. It's a shame Apple won't stick a fingerprint reader on
             | the back, too.
        
             | dariusj18 wrote:
             | But aren't those features (notifications, alarms, exercise
             | tools, music controls) in a bunch of other smart watches?
        
               | D13Fd wrote:
               | > But aren't those features (notifications, alarms,
               | exercise tools, music controls) in a bunch of other smart
               | watches?
               | 
               | Yes, definitely. I was replying to:
               | 
               | > I personally stuggle to see the point of smart watches.
               | 
               | I do think the Apple execution and hardware is generally
               | better, but really I was just comparing the benefits of
               | wearing a smart watch vs. not wearing one.
        
         | nickbauman wrote:
         | Agree on all counts. It's very hard to put time horizons on
         | anything. But I started wearing a Series 3 watch (3 generations
         | old now) when I started a project my client in 2019 insisted I
         | wear it as I was writing code that utilized HealthKit data from
         | the Apple Watch. Check my past posts I'm NOT an Apple fan boi
         | at all. But compared to the competition, there's nothing coming
         | close to the integration and the UX out there. My partner has a
         | Rage 4 and it's just garbage in comparison. It misses and
         | drops, the display is like from the dollar store. HealthKit is
         | absolutely bulletproof. Every single decision in that API is
         | gold. Every time I think something might be poorly done it's my
         | misunderstanding or they made the best choice you can make.
         | Deep respect.
        
           | vbezhenar wrote:
           | Apple Watch might be the best smartwatches but for me the
           | concept or smartwatch is still novel and I'm not sure if I
           | want to switch. I wear ordinary watches and they're good
           | enough for me. The only killer feature that I need is waking
           | me up in a smart way (monitoring sleep phases and boozing on
           | my hand between 08:00 - 09:00, for example) but Apple Watch
           | does not have that feature. Other features are just not
           | interesting for me. And, honestly, for most other people
           | around me. May be I'm in a bubble, but so far I saw Apple
           | Watch only once in my life.
        
             | yurishimo wrote:
             | While I agree that the wake-up feature you described is not
             | available from Apple directly, I bet there's a 3rd party
             | app out there that does what you're asking.
             | 
             | I use the Apple alarm now and when if I go to sleep with my
             | watch on, it will gently buzz on my wrist and get more
             | forceful until I turn it off. The sensors to track sleep
             | are all on the device, but Apple doesn't seem to have any
             | interest in building a "sleep cycle" tracker at this time
             | for whatever reason.
             | 
             | A cursory search turns up the "Sleep Cycle" app[0] with a
             | ton of reviews and even an "Editors Choice" award. Maybe
             | Apple is holding their horses until they 100% nail the
             | implementation, but if you can live with 90% in the
             | meantime, it would probably be worth it to you if this is a
             | thing you're really wanting in your morning routine.
             | 
             | [0] - https://apps.apple.com/us/app/sleep-cycle-sleep-
             | tracker/id32...
        
           | mcny wrote:
           | The only real complaint I have is 8GB is not enough storage
           | to update watch os. But there is praise in the complaint: you
           | can update it at all.
        
             | d3nj4l wrote:
             | On that note, it feels so un-apple like that their official
             | way of resolving the storage issue with updates is to
             | unpair the watch and pair it again.
        
         | unparagoned wrote:
         | I've got a Samsung watch and the the heart rate monitor has
         | serious reliability issues. Apples is not only suppose the be
         | better but you got blood pressure and o2 monitoring. I'm
         | definitely going to switch over in the future
        
           | hellbannedguy wrote:
           | It gets weird as you age.
           | 
           | When I was younger, I wanted my vitals. I bought numerous BP
           | machines. I even bought glucose meters. I wanted to know what
           | my body was doing.
           | 
           | I wanted to know because I was young, and those numbers were
           | always fine.
           | 
           | Now--I just don't want to know. You can call it denial, or
           | life is too short to measure health stats all the time,
           | especially on my wrist.
           | 
           | I'm also a Certified Hypochondriac. I've been one for ever. I
           | don't anything on my wrist reminding me of my eventual death
           | of cancer, or a heart attack.
           | 
           | Now--I get a physical every three to four years.
           | 
           | I don't want to know what my aging body is doing daily.
           | 
           | If I had diabetes though, the upcoming glucose monitor would
           | be a no brainer. This will be huge.
           | 
           | I'm a Watchmaker, so my tastes might not be Apple's
           | demographics? My perfect watch is something I can repair, and
           | just tells time, and looks good on my wrist.
           | 
           | I will admit Apple square watches have grown on me. I didn't
           | like them when introduced, but now they look fine.
           | 
           | Would I trade my '62 IWC with the 362 movement for any Apple
           | watch; hell no.
        
           | jiggawatts wrote:
           | Most of the Apple Watch health features are blocked in
           | Australia because they were literally too lazy to submit the
           | paperwork to the Therapeutic Goods Administration (TGA)!
           | 
           | All a competitor has to do is submit their paperwork and they
           | won't get any competition from Apple. Easy!
        
             | chrisseaton wrote:
             | Who's the mug in this situation? Apple, or the Australian
             | people?
        
             | threeseed wrote:
             | ECG has been available in Australia for the last month.
             | 
             | Only health feature that isn't approved is O2 levels.
        
             | 908B64B197 wrote:
             | > Most of the Apple Watch health features are blocked in
             | Australia because they were literally too lazy to submit
             | the paperwork to the Therapeutic Goods Administration
             | (TGA)!
             | 
             | Why duplicate all the work done by the FDA? Just use their
             | certificate. Save the taxpayer some money.
        
               | anoncake wrote:
               | Because the FDA only certifies that a device meets
               | American laws?
        
               | Doctor_Fegg wrote:
               | If you believe unthinkingly following American regulatory
               | authorities is a good thing, I have a few hundred 737 Max
               | planes to sell you.
        
               | smoldesu wrote:
               | Because the FDA doesn't really do any work in the first
               | place.
        
           | foobarian wrote:
           | There have been some wearables coming on the market claiming
           | to measure blood pressure. Family member got one.
           | Unfortunately it turns out to be so inaccurate that it
           | created more stress for them out of frequently seeing
           | alarming numbers.
           | 
           | I wonder if blood pressure readout is one of those things
           | like Theranos' assays from one drop of blood - not possible
           | due to physics. It certainly is less obviously so.
        
           | nielsbot wrote:
           | No blood pressure
        
             | voisin wrote:
             | Rumoured in next one based on some acquisitions they did
             | pre-pandemic.
        
           | DennisAleynikov wrote:
           | I have been using the samsung line of watches since before
           | apple watch was ever a thing, despite some heart rate
           | variance the leadership in payments samsung commanded was and
           | still is unparalleled.
           | 
           | people with apple pay carry a backup card, a samsung watch
           | allows paying with magstripe emulation in case of legacy
           | terminals. pre 2020 pandemic this was indespensible and there
           | are still often inoperable nfc terminals and MST is a great
           | backup.
           | 
           | I hate the elitism around the apple watch and its minor
           | changes to standard health tracking wearable tech that has
           | had normal LTE and other full phone functions from the get
           | go... not to mention the ridiculous requirment that an iPad
           | isnt enough to set up a watch, you need to buy into their
           | phones.
        
             | least wrote:
             | When I first saw that feature of the Samsung watch I
             | thought it was really awesome. I still do. But I also
             | remember it being excluded from some of their watches? Is
             | that not the case anymore?
        
         | lscotte wrote:
         | I had an Android smartwatch years before Apple even came out
         | with one. Typical Apple reality distortion field in effect.
        
           | doublepg23 wrote:
           | I've had multiple wearOS watches and switched to the iOS
           | platform in the last year. It's frankly night and day, for
           | the extra bulk in the wearOS watches you get worse battery
           | life and dismal performance. A lot of the blame can be placed
           | on Qualcomm's back for not keeping pace with wearable
           | processors. I'm wondering if Google's Whitechapel and their
           | cooperation with Samsung can improve this at all, but it's
           | currently a sad state of affairs. Dieter of The Verge and
           | Linus of Linus Tech Tips have made all the same points
           | scattered throughout this thread.
        
           | lscotte wrote:
           | Downvoted by the Apple cult, of course!
        
         | sQL_inject wrote:
         | I'm have to sort of disagree, not a decade but easily half a
         | decade lead. Source: I worked in this space years ago with what
         | was, at the time, the leader in the space, and remember how
         | many of my coworkers laughed at the Apple Watch unveil. Now
         | Apple is the one laughing with a girthy, multibillion dollar
         | schadenfreude.
         | 
         | Apple has leads in silicon and cross-platform integration which
         | is inarguably led to a better user experience, extended battery
         | life, and smaller form factor. Try piecing together an Airpods
         | Pro grade product with 'off-the-shelf' parts and half the
         | firmware engineers.
         | 
         | Apple has orders of magnitude greater scale through their
         | supply chain, and a real clincher: technological mastery of
         | material science; from CNC milled aluminum to tooling for high
         | grade plastic resin, and can shoulder out competitors from even
         | touching the raw material once they've even realized they need
         | it.
         | 
         | Apple has solid brand cachet, which drives loyalty which drives
         | revenue.
         | 
         | Apple has (last I checked) the highest revenue/sq. foot retail
         | space in the world. Yes, the rest of retail is dying, but Apple
         | controls the image, experience, support, and purchasing of all
         | it's own products. Check out an Apple store on a Friday night
         | in the Bay Area, it's incredible how packed they are.
         | 
         | Arguably the most difficult thing for competitors to copy is
         | the culture of industrial design and UX prioritization backed
         | by engineering. Every other major competitor in their spaces
         | shamelessly copies the externals without the same cohesion and
         | mastery of internals -- it's embarrassing frankly (checkout the
         | Oppo 'Enco X' earbud site, it's a poorly made rip off of the
         | Airpods site).
         | 
         | I don't own any Apple products, and I don't endorse their labor
         | practices, but I respect their brand, products, and patience in
         | releasing GOOD things at the right time. Consumers do too,
         | judging by revenue.
         | 
         | Apple's weakness is now their precarious position in bed with
         | China, which will take decades to undo.
        
           | smoldesu wrote:
           | > Apple has leads in silicon and cross-platform integration
           | 
           | I stopped reading after this part.
        
             | user-the-name wrote:
             | Both are simple, factual and true statements? Why does that
             | make you stop reading?
        
           | orev wrote:
           | I'm glad you highlighted the materials/manufacturing
           | component, which I think is frequently overlooked by tech
           | people (who mostly focus on the chips and software). Apple's
           | ability to build millions of devices with such precision and
           | tight tolerances is really a huge accomplishment.
        
             | mmmmmbop wrote:
             | Just to clarify, Apple doesn't actually build any devices.
             | They are built by Foxconn, mainly. It's still very
             | impressing, of course.
        
               | stingrae wrote:
               | To be clear. Apple provides the designs, the build
               | procedures, fixtures, and test stations. Foxconn provides
               | the facilities and workers.
        
           | alpaca128 wrote:
           | > Apple has (last I checked) the highest revenue/sq. foot
           | retail space in the world
           | 
           | Does this also correctly count the area of all Apple partner
           | stores? In some countries they sell Apple devices but don't
           | operate a single store themselves.
        
             | dhosek wrote:
             | The revenue/sq foot ratio is based on the sales from those
             | square feet, not the total revenue. They measure sales at
             | each individual location for location revenues/sq foot and
             | all locations for overall. Revenue from partner sales,
             | internet orders, etc. are not counted in that (although
             | they might include deliver to store website orders, I don't
             | know). It doesn't hurt that they're selling products with a
             | high price-volume ratio.
        
           | amelius wrote:
           | > Apple's weakness is now their precarious position in bed
           | with China, which will take decades to undo.
           | 
           | But this holds for the entire world economy.
        
             | snowwrestler wrote:
             | Kind of, but among the largest tech companies, Apple
             | uniquely runs most of its revenue through the hardware
             | category, and gets a lot of revenue from China.
             | 
             | Google (Alphabet), Microsoft, Amazon, Facebook all use
             | hardware from China, but most of their revenue comes
             | through software interactions. Google does not officially
             | even operate in China. Amazon has a limited corporate
             | footprint in China.
             | 
             | I think it's reasonable to say that Apple has higher risk
             | related to China than many of its competitors.
        
               | disgruntledphd2 wrote:
               | Both Google and Facebook have _substantial_ proportions
               | of their revenue from CN based advertisers.
        
         | xyzzy_plugh wrote:
         | Apple has a significant lead in manufacturing, at the very
         | least. I haven't been in the CE industry in several years, but
         | when I was, they frequently bought out entire lines of new
         | tooling equipment with exclusive multi-year contracts. They
         | literally have some of the most advanced, bleeding-edge tooling
         | in existence. It's very, very difficult to compete with their
         | fabrication abilities.
         | 
         | Combined with their market position, huge margins, decent but
         | good looking software and UX, it's incredibly hard to catch up
         | to them.
         | 
         | Apple has a decade-long lead in wearables because there is no
         | competition at their luxury price point in a luxury device
         | ecosystem like the iPhone. To catch up, first you'd have to
         | defeat the iPhone, meanwhile develop and then unleash a
         | wearable all of your customers also want, and somehow make
         | money doing so. It's a tall task.
        
       | pvm3 wrote:
       | Apple has a decade-long lead in wearables for the Apple
       | ecosystem.
        
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