[HN Gopher] Microsoft has turned the Surface Duo into a handheld...
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Microsoft has turned the Surface Duo into a handheld Xbox
Author : tosh
Score : 135 points
Date : 2021-05-24 15:06 UTC (7 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.theverge.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.theverge.com)
| Shadonototro wrote:
| Console Sales:
|
| - Switch: 85 millions
|
| - PS5: 8 millions
|
| - XBOX: 4 millions
|
| Looks like both Sony/Microsoft forgot something when they
| announced their new console..
|
| A proper portable console with 1 (and not 2) home console would
| have been a killer
|
| I'm not sure what the target audience is with a virtual gamepad,
| smartphone users want games designed for their phones, and
| console users want games designed for a gamepad, and that is why
| the Switch sells very well, it suits the need of portable gamers
| in a world full of smartphones
|
| source: https://www.vgchartz.com/
| Xplune13 wrote:
| Switch isn't of the same generation though. Switch was released
| back in 2017. Also, switch didn't face hardware delays like PS5
| and XBSX. So not a fair comparison at all.
| Shadonototro wrote:
| for comparison:
|
| PS4: 115 millions (since 2013)
|
| XBOX One: 50 millions (since 2013)
|
| People should stop trying to find excuses, we all want a
| portable console, that is why the Switch sells like pancakes
|
| Both Sony/Microsoft missed a huge opportunity
|
| Nintendo has no competition, there is room for another player
| over there
| mafuyu wrote:
| Competition in the portable market would be rough, although I
| would love to see Sony give portables another shot. Especially
| now that smartphone gaming is its own segment entirely.
|
| Microsoft's strategy seems pretty solid, especially given their
| stumbles last gen. They're buying in heavily into Game Pass and
| making games subscription and cross platform across PC and
| Xbox. XCloud streaming ties into their subscription model and
| allows for continuity to mobile devices as well.
| Shadonototro wrote:
| What are you on about? there is 0 competition for Nintendo,
| that is why they are able to sell 80 millions of units in the
| first place
|
| No matter what game pass strategy is, it will not work on
| smartphones, console gamers doesn't want to play on
| smartphone using touchscreen controls, and smartphone gamers
| doesn't want to play console games because they aren't
| designed for their device in the first place
|
| XCloud is not a tech ready for wide adoption, everyone with a
| smartphone know how shitty the network is in busy cities at
| peak hours, even when at home it's not perfect, wifi? then
| daddy will complain because he can't stream his netflix movie
| anymore
| adventured wrote:
| PS4: 115 million units.
|
| Looks like Sony didn't forget something when they announced
| their new console.
| Shadonototro wrote:
| PS4 since 2013
|
| Switch was released 4 years later in 2017, and yet about to
| pass the PS4 lifetime sales by the end of the year
| Splendor wrote:
| Days since launch (as of 2020-05-24):
|
| - Nintendo Switch: 1,543
|
| - PlayStation 5: 193
|
| - Xbox Series S/X: 195
| Shadonototro wrote:
| Even if we extrapolate, Switch is still #1
| Splendor wrote:
| I never said it wasn't. Just adding some more context that
| you left out.
| arduinomancer wrote:
| From what I've heard the input lag on xCloud streaming is pretty
| bad in some games.
| RocketSyntax wrote:
| with no shoulder buttons
| [deleted]
| enos_feedler wrote:
| "The gaming phone is neat idea and I've been actually thinking
| this is the way Microsoft gets back into phones. Leverage their
| XBox platform to build a phone meets Nintendo DS like device.
| Thats what I thought the Surface Duo was going to be."
|
| - me 88 days ago on HN:
|
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26258796
|
| The shitty thing is, how does a nobody like me see this?
| Microsoft had once chance to take this narrative front and
| center. The surface duo product identity has now sailed. It will
| always be a failed product trying to be salvaged. Microsoft is a
| bad consumer company. Incredible enterprise company though.
| mensetmanusman wrote:
| I wish Apple would do this with the iPad.
|
| M1XBoX
| djrogers wrote:
| This is screaming for Microsoft to release a gaming Surface,
| possibly one that looks/acts a lot like a Nintendo Switch.
| slver wrote:
| I can foresee dozens of people buying it.
| neogodless wrote:
| There's something like that called the Aya Neo[0].
|
| It runs Windows. It runs emulators. It's reasonably powerful
| and compact. And it has hardware buttons.
|
| It's also a bit pricey if you think of it as a portable game
| device, and it also probably falls down a bit on battery life
| comparisons.
|
| Would you want a gaming Surface to have two screens and
| touchscreen buttons, or hardware (perhaps as a Surface
| keyboard-like magnetic accessory)?
|
| [0] https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/ayaneo-world-s-
| first-7nm-...
| LegitShady wrote:
| It's too much money, so it doesn't matter. They've priced
| themselves out of relevance.
| neogodless wrote:
| For most people and use cases, I agree. If you get it as a
| combo tablet/gaming/tiny laptop, it's not a bad price. The
| OS allows you to do all those things, and the screen is
| acceptable for some of them.
|
| But personally, yeah, I want a 15"+ screen for laptop
| usage, and I don't really have interest in a tablet, so
| there's not enough value here for the money.
| LegitShady wrote:
| >If you get it as a combo tablet/gaming/tiny laptop, it's
| not a bad price.
|
| It's an integrated graphics Ryzen 4500U machine - it's
| not a gaming device and shouldn't be called that. It
| doesn't have a keyboard, so it's not a laptop.
|
| It's at best a ryzen 5 4500U powered tablet with
| integrated gaming controls. You can buy a $500-600 dell
| laptop and a $50 xbox controller and get the keyboard
| too.
|
| I'm happy they found 2500 people to back their project
| but it looks like a major rip off to me.
|
| It's not without some controversy either
|
| https://www.reddit.com/r/ayaneo/comments/n6k0n0/breaking_
| lat...
|
| https://www.reddit.com/r/ayaneo/comments/n7hgmd/guide_on_
| ref...
|
| The company behind the device has been sold and it's a
| new team, new manufacturing, etc.
|
| I would not back a $1000 crowdfund for any reason.
| myhf wrote:
| There's obviously a niche for high-end UMPCs with
| integrated controllers. (Aya Neo, GPD Win 3, ONEXPLAYER,
| etc.)
|
| If you are planning on using an eGPU with a laptop, the
| laptop might as well be smaller.
| JohnWhigham wrote:
| It would be dead on arrival. Nintendo is just too good in the
| handheld department. I'd look at the PS Vita as a cautionary
| tale.
| Hamuko wrote:
| The Vita is an amazing piece of kit (I own two!) and I think
| the main fault with the system was Sony's lack of support and
| the garbage proprietary storage medium that was worth its
| weight in gold. If Microsoft made a Vita with xCloud, I
| imagine it'd be a pretty popular device and further enhance
| the value of the Microsoft gaming ecosystem.
|
| Also, even though the Vita was not a smash hit for Sony,
| developing for the Vita was apparently pretty lucrative. The
| attachment rate for Vita was very high and Vita owners bought
| a lot of games. Granted, that was probably due to Sony's
| abuse of its Vita buyers.
| Server6 wrote:
| Yeah if Microsoft released an xCloud device that looked like a
| Switch that could side load emulators I'd buy it.
| wklauss wrote:
| Xbox Cloud Gaming, unfortunately, it's far from ideal. For
| several games, lag kills the experience. And I'm not talking fast
| paced FPS. Even platformers can feel weird or unplayable when you
| add latency.
| zapzupnz wrote:
| Hell, failing to set my TV to Game Mode makes _local_ gaming
| unplayably laggy.
| asdff wrote:
| Competitors aren't much better. I beta tested Google's assassin
| creed on a gigabit connection. It still dropped me down to 144p
| during lag spikes like a youtube video.
| some-guy wrote:
| I have high-speed node-to-node wireless internet in the Bay
| Area (~700mbps symmetrical) and cloud gaming is terrible on it,
| mainly due to jitter and small amounts of packet loss.
|
| Assuming the infrastructure over time can support it, I see
| cloud gaming succeeding, but it only works well if the
| circumstances are perfect.
| muskmelon_91 wrote:
| @some-guy
|
| Is your experience for xcloud or all the cloud gaming
| platforms in general?
| some-guy wrote:
| Both Stadia and xCloud. Any sort of ultra-low-latency /
| UDP-based protocols suffer with my kind of internet
| (Monkeybrains ISP in the Bay Area) because of jitter /
| packet loss.
| handrous wrote:
| > Even platformers can feel weird or unplayable when you add
| latency.
|
| Even? Super Mario Brothers lets me know very quickly if the lag
| on my set-up is anything other than _quite_ low, because I 'll
| fall down every damn bottomless pit on the map.
| wklauss wrote:
| I got caught by surprise trying to play Ori on Xbox Cloud
| after having no problem at all with Cyberpunk on Stadia.
| SimianLogic2 wrote:
| The only good experience I've had with it so far is Slay the
| Spire (mysteriously missing on Android). I play it full-screen
| with a gap in the middle -- I wish there was an OS or app-level
| setting to let me choose whether I want the screen to be slightly
| smaller with pixel perfect gaps or have a random chunk missing
| from the middle of every full-screen experience.
|
| I pair an XBox controller, but I don't tend to travel with it (I
| just keep one on my coffee table). It would be pretty sweet to
| have a switch-style dock that let me put my TV in "big screen
| mode" and just let me navigate the whole phone with the
| controller. More like an XBox Phone than a Windows Phone at that
| point.
| didibus wrote:
| Can we make it clear that Microsoft has NOT turned the Surface
| Duo into a handheld Xbox in any way. This is streaming games with
| an existing Android App, all they did was span the touch controls
| on the second screen. It does not actually run Xbox software.
|
| You'd have a better experience just plugging in a real Xbox
| controller on any Android phone equiped with the xCloud streaming
| app.
| thanhhaimai wrote:
| I'd much prefer pairing a controller directly to the phone (like
| Stadia style) than a touchscreen button.
| moate wrote:
| You can pair an Xbox controller with a Surface Duo.
| Pxtl wrote:
| Is that lt and lb and rt and rb buttons in the corners?
|
| I keep hoping software-bindable shoulder buttons would become
| standard on phones. Beyond the challenge of touchscreen face
| buttons, the lack of triggers is a huge limiter.
| tantalor wrote:
| To be clear, this is _not_ running the game on the device "like
| a Nintendo 3DS", it's streaming.
| beebeepka wrote:
| Ah, so it's even worse
| bartread wrote:
| No, no, no, no, no, no, NO!
|
| Touch controls for most games suck (I've tried). Replicating
| somebody's Xbox controller on the second screen _sucks_. It 's
| unendingly annoying when you die over and over in a game because
| your thumb or finger wasn't in quite the right place to fire or
| move in a particular direction.
|
| Not to mention, the Duo is ####ing expensive: top-end iPhone kind
| of money for the unlocked variant.
|
| If you really, _really_ want a dual screen console with a second
| screen, buy a used Nintendo 3DS (get the "new" variant if you
| can). But, since with the Duo you're sacrificing the second
| screen to the controller anyway, you may as well go the whole hog
| and get a single screen portable console with decent physical
| controls. The Nintendo Switch is a great option, as is a used
| Playstation Vita. Or, an increasingly viable option if you have a
| decent single screen phone already, is to buy a Bluetooth game
| controller that you can clip the phone into as a screen.
|
| I don't know what the writers at The Verge were thinking with
| this because if you really want to game on the move a Surface Duo
| is so far from being the best option - unless that's the device
| you already own - it's unfunny. All of the other options are also
| _hugely_ cheaper, again, unless you already own the Duo.
|
| I'm not saying the Duo is terrible or anything like that but
| don't buy one for this. If you have one already and do want a
| decent gaming experience on it, your best bet is to buy a
| controller. I imagine an actual Xbox controller, which you might
| already own, would probably work fine.
| canadianfella wrote:
| > Touch controls for most games suck (I've tried)
|
| Pubg Mobile controls are amazing.
| partiallypro wrote:
| You can still use a physical controller with this, and it's
| obviously at a proof of concept phase.
| bartread wrote:
| I did mention using a physical controller toward the end of
| the post. But then it's unclear what the advantage is versus
| doing that with your existing phone (as I say, unless you
| already have a Duo).
| cush wrote:
| As someone who bought an mp3 player because I wanted a physical
| play/pause button, I completely agree. Nothing will ever
| replace buttons that click, for me.
| minimaul wrote:
| 100% yes. Touch controls suck for gaming because your fingers
| drift. There's no physical feedback that your fingers are on
| top of the button and ready to press.
|
| It sucks, and I really really hope that this doesn't catch on.
| bartread wrote:
| Haha, yeah... well... brace for the impact of a passing but
| possibly prolonged fad. It happened once before when the
| iPhone 2G and 3G came out, plus some of the early Samsung
| Android tablets. I'd say it's likely to go bigger this time
| simply because high quality, powerful, touch-enabled devices
| are so much more ubiquitous now. It does remind me of the car
| touch control fad a bit.
| smolder wrote:
| The Verge made a video about how to build a computer at one
| point and it was full of laughably bad advice. I'd say they're
| more of a culture blog than tech experts/analysts. Hardware
| stories come across as uncritical ads.
| grillvogel wrote:
| werent they bankrolled by microsoft? or was that polygon?
| smolder wrote:
| I'm not sure. I don't see mention of MS in either sites
| wikipedia page, or Vox's. They're both under Vox media.
| amelius wrote:
| You could put a thin plastic/silicon stencil over the screen,
| with holes in the places where the buttons are located, which
| makes it possible to feel where the buttons are.
| macspoofing wrote:
| Or you can pair a controller.
| systemvoltage wrote:
| Now extend your argument to a large equipment that travels at
| lethal speeds on 4 wheels. It's gotten so bad that I am
| surprised they've have kept the steering wheel intact and still
| analog.
| bartread wrote:
| FWIW I 100% agree with you about touch controls in cars. I
| even considered drawing a parallel between the two but
| thought my post was already long enough.
| neogodless wrote:
| What's pretty clear is that the small form-factor multi-screen
| device needs a compelling story to establish value and utility.
|
| The Surface Duo looks like a very cool device that I would
| probably never use over a phone with one good screen, more power
| and a great camera. Similar to tablets, I personally just reach
| for the phone or the laptop or my TV, and never a tablet.
|
| But a Duo released with some more power and some imaginative use
| cases might start to sell. I think it's a shame that the larger
| Neo and Windows 10X seem to be dead before arrival, because it
| might have led to something interesting. But Microsoft has not
| resolved the conflict between Windows for everyone, and an
| application store that feels competitive and properly populated,
| so locked down devices have consistently failed for them.
|
| The Duo running Android doesn't have that limitation, so the
| bigger question might be if Microsoft can do a sufficiently
| sophisticated job customizing Android, making it feel like
| something more than just Android, and making it work perfectly
| with this unique form factor. But it's hard to see the business
| case for all the resources going into what still feels like a
| very niche device category.
| truth_ wrote:
| > Similar to tablets, I personally just reach for the phone or
| the laptop or my TV, and never a tablet.
|
| That's an interesting point.
|
| I, too, never _reach for_ a tablet. But I use my tablet a lot
| to read research papers and books- both fiction and nonfiction.
|
| So, to me, it is never a replacement for a mobile phone. It
| does something else.
|
| So, if MS or anybody else wants to popularize this form factor,
| I believe that they would have to convince people of its uses
| _other than_ as a smartphone, and focus on that.
| mumblemumble wrote:
| Every time I revisit the device, I'm just disappointed all over
| again that it doesn't run Windows 10.
|
| This seems like the device that might have justified Windows
| 8's ill-fated attempt to unify the mobile and desktop operating
| systems. I see it, and what I want it to be is a dual-function
| device that works like a tablet when I'm on the train or
| whatever, but switches into a more PC-style interface when I
| plug in a monitor and/or connect a keyboard. When I see those
| dual screens, my mind immediately wants to stick an emacs
| window or tmux pane on each one, a bluetooth keyboard just
| below, and still have plenty of space for a notebook and a
| beverage, all within a cramped coffee shop table.
| bhauer wrote:
| I would absolutely buy a device like this that ran Windows 10
| and could dock, providing an experience like an evolution of
| the "Continuum" feature seen in Windows 10 Mobile.
| ocdtrekkie wrote:
| So much this. If it ran Windows 10, I'd not only own it, I'd
| be excited to own it. There's just nothing exciting about
| anything iOS or Android is doing. They're just phones.
|
| What's frustrating is that Microsoft is in this incredibly
| deep rut with their OS team and haven't been able to dig
| themselves out. Each successive alternative flavor of 10 has
| failed to launch for years, including this month's death of
| 10X.
|
| As much as I'd love a Duo running Windows 10, if it had
| waited for a Windows OS to run on it, it never would've
| launched at all.
| zeusk wrote:
| death of 10X, leadership would like us to believe was more
| so because of COVID and their concern around less consumer
| confidence during a pandemic. Obviously, that didn't really
| happen since prices are through the roof for cars, houses,
| gpu, gaming consoles etc.
| throwaway3699 wrote:
| > Obviously, that didn't really happen since prices are
| through the roof for cars, houses, gpu, gaming consoles
| etc.
|
| Which can be indicative of supply crunch, rather than
| high demand.
| swiley wrote:
| It's odd that they haven't tried shipping a RedHat/Ubuntu
| derivative instead then.
| ocdtrekkie wrote:
| I mean, the issue is that their own previous attempt,
| Windows Mobile, was a high quality, competent OS
| platform. And it's largest issue was that you couldn't
| get Google apps on it because Google's a monopolist.
| Pushing a different OS that doesn't have Google app
| support doesn't really move the needle.
| swiley wrote:
| Considering Microsoft's OS has it's own (much larger) app
| ecosystem this seems like a pretty strange complaint.
| cercatrova wrote:
| Have you seen the Surface Neo? It's a larger version of the
| Duo that runs Windows 10(X). Although 10X is canceled for now
| and development is paused on the Neo.
| nonbirithm wrote:
| The picture in the article reminds me of the GPD Win 2, which
| has physical buttons and runs Windows 10. The Win 2 doesn't
| really give the impression of a laptop or a mobile phone,
| more like a portable game console that runs PC software.
| Maybe there are some form factors in between laptops and
| phones/tablets that are worth exploring further.
|
| It would be nice if the GPD hardware had better dockability.
| All the available docks are 3D printed by enthusiasts.
|
| Also, the GPD has made me realize that I don't really want a
| tablet-style input device for ultraportable use. Having the
| physical knobs and buttons works better if the environment is
| that of a desktop PC. Remember that weird trend that started
| in the 2010's where every laptop manufacturer felt the need
| to make their screens into touchscreens? There were plenty of
| people I saw who would switch between the touchscreen and
| mouse awkwardly, as if the touchscreen was beckoning them but
| they realized five seconds later that navigating Windows with
| touch regions that small was too cumbersome to bother with.
| And yet the cycle kept repeating, because the touchscreen
| wasn't going away.
| fullstop wrote:
| I've considered getting a larger Android tablet for the purpose
| of playing games on GamePass /xCloud with a paired xbox
| controller. It works quite well on my phone, but the screen is
| kind of small or my eyes are bad. The piece missing for me,
| currently, is the lack of vibration support. I did not
| appreciate how many tactile cues today's games have until it
| was missing.
|
| For example, in Sea of Thieves, there is a "clunk" vibration
| when your ship's wheel is centered. It's very difficult to grab
| the wheel and straighten your heading without the clunk.
| Visually, the wheel had a center spoke which looks different
| than the rest, but the wheel rotates several times in a given
| direction before stopping.
|
| If they ever add vibration support, I may purchase an Android
| tablet with a larger screen.
| al2o3cr wrote:
| This seems to be the ongoing story with Windows Phone /
| Surface: interesting and well-made hardware, let down by
| mediocre software and UX.
| alpaca128 wrote:
| Windows Phone 8.1 was the pinnacle of modern smartphone UX
| and is still far ahead of Android, with BB10 OS being the
| only serious competitor.
|
| If I had to describe Android's UI in comparison: usable but I
| hate every second of it. Especially the text input is so
| frustrating I have to wonder whether it's intentional.
| slver wrote:
| I'm not sure making your labels so large they don't fit on
| the screen is part of the "pinnacle of modern smartphone
| UX".
|
| It had interesting ideas that work better for a fancy site,
| not for a OS that should be used by hundreds of millions of
| casual users.
| neogodless wrote:
| It's still a great mystery to me why it seemed like the
| swipe keyboard (Word Flow[0]) on Windows Phone was so, so
| good, and yet even SwiftKey which is owned by Microsoft
| doesn't measure up (but SwiftKey co-existed with Word
| Flow...)
|
| At this point, some seven years since I've used Windows
| Phone, maybe my memory isn't that accurate, but I remember
| the transition to using Android keyboards to be very
| painful.
|
| It's interesting to see a thread where even going from
| Windows Phone 8.1 to 10, the predictive keyboard got
| worse.[1]
|
| [0] https://www.zdnet.com/article/microsofts-new-word-flow-
| keybo...
|
| [1] https://old.reddit.com/r/windowsphone/comments/4smmuc/w
| hat_h...
| com2kid wrote:
| > It's still a great mystery to me why it seemed like the
| swipe keyboard (Word Flow[0]) on Windows Phone was so, so
| good, and yet even SwiftKey which is owned by Microsoft
| doesn't measure up
|
| I worked with the guy who lead the swipe keyboard on
| Windows Phone. Amazing machine learning engineer who lead
| an amazing team. Some of the work he did for my team was
| out of this world (ML models to do predictive touch
| inputs to decrease perceived touch screen latency and
| improve touch recognition accuracy, on a Cortex m3)
|
| Unfortunately for whatever reason his code was never
| adopted outside the mobile org, and I believe he was
| moved off that project after its initial version was
| completed. This is also why the desktop Windows swipe
| keyboard for Windows tablets at that time terri-bad
| compared to Windows Phone's swipe keyboard! Also this is
| possibly why the keyboard got worse, not sure it was long
| enough ago that I remember it was mid-Win8.1 mobile -> 10
| transition but I don't recall all the details and the
| timeline.
| swiley wrote:
| >Unfortunately for whatever reason his code was never
| adopted outside the mobile org
|
| If it were open source people could still use it
| elsewhere.
| neogodless wrote:
| I'll disagree with UX on the Windows Phone. I miss it to this
| day.
|
| The problem was 100% insufficient ecosystem support. Friends
| having social apps I simply couldn't get my hands on (and
| third-party apps that worked great getting blocked by
| official sources.) And bank apps that required Android/iOS -
| the convenience of mobile check deposit can't be overstated
| in the U.S.!
|
| The Surface UX (Windows 10) has improved massively since
| Windows RT / Windows 8. So I don't think that's to blame,
| either. But software/ecosystem is everything. And it's what
| Windows 10 excels at, but every locked-down Windows has
| failed at.
| johnvaluk wrote:
| I wish Microsoft had continued to develop Windows Phone as
| an alternative to Windows, instead of trying to incorporate
| some features into Windows as Metro, which met with
| inevitable backlash. I would have loved to see it evolve
| into a tablet/touchscreen laptop platform on its own
| merits.
| mumblemumble wrote:
| Indeed, my sense is that Windows Phone 7 was picking up
| some decent momentum, and then it was scuttled by the
| Windows 8 initiative. There was probably some guilt by
| association with the ill-fated desktop OS. But there was
| also the confusing compatibility story between Windows
| Phone 7 and Windows Phone 8, which I found to be
| confusing and slightly intimidating both as someone who
| was shopping for a phone at the time, and someone who was
| considering developing an app for Windows Phone.
|
| I get what they were trying to do, and it was certainly
| an interesting and ambitious goal. But they made the same
| mistake I repeatedly make when I'm trying to kindle a
| campfire: putting the fire out by throwing way too much
| wood onto it at the first hint of a visible flame.
| lotsofpulp wrote:
| >The problem was 100% insufficient ecosystem support.
|
| The root cause of which is insufficient Microsoft support.
| If they had stuck with it and kept investing for 10 years
| and kept up their investments in physical stores where
| people could go to buy non malware laden products and get
| tech help, I think they could have been a 3rd option in
| today's market.
| WorldMaker wrote:
| Microsoft couldn't get over the hurdle that US phone
| carriers refused to sell a 3rd option _at all_ , no
| matter how much money or time they threw at that problem.
| They could invest in physical retail Microsoft Stores all
| they want, but they were locked out of the stores US
| consumers actually buy that hardware form factor from,
| _and_ in many cases they couldn 't even get SIM cards for
| most of the US networks even if they did manage to
| convince people to buy their next phone from a Microsoft
| Store.
|
| Against that kind of gatekeeping, of course there is no
| third option in today's market! It's harder to sell three
| things than it is to sell two things, and AT&T/Verizon/et
| al decided that they didn't want to sell three things.
|
| (Sure, Microsoft could have trundled on in other markets
| than the US. They had such a sizeable India marketshare
| against the troubles in the US, for instance. But when
| you've already lost your "home" market, it's hard to keep
| people's confidence. Especially in that case where
| Microsoft got the biggest marketshare gains from cheap
| hardware from a variety of hardware partners, those thin
| margin partners are nothing but confidence driven.)
| lotsofpulp wrote:
| Interesting. I wonder how could Microsoft not have enough
| political sway to force FCC to do something about that?
| Maybe not force them to sell their phones, but not giving
| them SIM cards seems egregious. And at all 4 mobile
| networks?
|
| How are Pinephone and these small timers getting SIM
| cards then?
| 8note wrote:
| That one has always felt to me like monopoly abuse by
| Google to prop up android
| GordonS wrote:
| I used Windows Phone for a few years back in the day. I did
| find it a bit buggy (my phone would crash about once a
| week), but the UX was pretty good. Especially at the time,
| where screens were lower-resolution than they are now, the
| tiled interface worked really well.
|
| I eventually moved to Android, and it took me a long time
| to get used to it - for a long time I kept thinking that
| just about everything had been more intuitive in Windows
| Phone.
| AshamedCaptain wrote:
| > The Surface UX (Windows 10) has improved massively since
| Windows RT / Windows 8.
|
| As a Surface owner, I am sorry, but the Surface/Tablet UX
| on Windows has actually _significantly degraded_ compared
| to Windows 8. Just pick up a Windows 8/.1 Surface and
| compare; it is night and day.
|
| Windows 10 may have upgraded "desktop" Windows usability
| and reduced the much-hated "tablet influences", but the
| cost is that as a result it is a much worse tablet OS, no
| doubt about it.
| mdoms wrote:
| This is the first time I have seen a video of one of these cloud
| services where you can see the physical input and the game screen
| at the same time, and it's exactly as bad as I thought it would
| be. Sea of Thieves isn't exactly a latency-sensitive game but
| that looks almost unbearable with the input lag.
| type0 wrote:
| The real handheld "xbox" is off course GPD Win 3 and it has the
| "VAIO UX" form factor
| nicolashahn wrote:
| Touchscreen buttons? No thanks.
| jayd16 wrote:
| Just pair a controller.
| phillipcarter wrote:
| Or use a Nintendo Switch, which has great slate of games that
| work well with the form factor, a great "grow up story" for
| social gaming, and physical controls.
| kbenson wrote:
| At that point, why use the surface duo over some phone that
| doesn't take up that space with another screen?
|
| This does bring up that a good gaming controller meant to
| mount to a phone might have a lot more use these days with
| the cloud gaming services than it would a decade ago though.
|
| A high quality Xbox or PS4 like controller that could mount a
| phone might sell well. Or an adapter for the real ones.
| jayd16 wrote:
| Still seems like a nice form factor to me. If you get a
| text you can just switch to that and type as you normally
| would. When a phone is strapped to a controller it seems a
| bit more cumbersome but I think it comes down to personal
| preference.
|
| This mode only adds a feature and takes nothing away so in
| my mind its just a nice addition.
| kbenson wrote:
| Perhaps I was too dismissive initially. I can see the
| benefit of having controls already there without having
| to take up screen real estate, so it does make sense,
| especially for games that don't require precise timing
| and movement, and there are plenty of those.
|
| Having access to those games easily and without needing a
| separate controller or using controls on the same screen
| you view the game with is beneficial, and doesn't
| preclude adding a separate physical controller for games
| that would benefit from one, so this seems like a net
| win.
| opencl wrote:
| There are controllers that split in half and you stick the
| phone in the middle for a Switch-like form factor. The
| ergonomics are much better than the controller clips
| because those end up being very top heavy with most newer
| phones.
|
| The real problem is that there are few mobile games
| designed for controllers, unless you want to use one of the
| streaming services or console emulators.
| fullstop wrote:
| > A high quality Xbox or PS4 like controller that could
| mount a phone might sell well. Or an adapter for the real
| ones.
|
| These adapters exist today.
| FemmeAndroid wrote:
| I picked one up for the PS5 controller, and it works
| great and costs less than $10.
| techrat wrote:
| Thus defeating the entire purpose of having a two screen
| setup where one screen acts like a controller. You'd be
| better off getting a larger screen phone and a bracket to
| clip the phone to a physical controller. Especially with one
| that has as many buttons as the XBox controller does.
| jayd16 wrote:
| I'd probably prefer this little laptop mode over holding a
| phone strapped to my controller. You could fold it around
| to one screen and use that configuration if you like as
| well. There are a lot of options and I think that's neat.
| mcphage wrote:
| Especially tiny, closely packed touchscreen buttons, on a
| screen you're not even looking at. Trying to hit the right
| button, with no tactile feedback, is not a recipe for success.
| livre wrote:
| Or you hit the right button but you have to keep holding it
| down to move the character and don't realize your finger has
| been slipping and the character suddenly stops moving at the
| worse moment. I've had that happen with Gameboy emulators on
| the phone a lot of times.
| rvz wrote:
| Exactly this. And it is $836.21 for the device according to
| this link: [0]
|
| No thanks and certainly no deal.
|
| [0] https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08JTDPRM1
| dylan604 wrote:
| Using that link, I see the 128GB version for $768.99 a
| discount of $631(45%) from the $1399.99 original price.
|
| The 256GB is $849.99 being a $650(43%) discount of the
| $1499.99 price.
|
| I see no other discounts to get to the price you posted.
| kbenson wrote:
| That was my thought initially too, but on further reflection,
| there are plenty of games that have input that's not time
| sensitive (or not that time sensitive) that having a built in
| (mediocre) controller is better than not having one and needing
| to put finger over the display screen for the same controls.
|
| And you can still pair a controller. I think that maybe makes
| this "better than other phone devices for xcloud" at least,
| which is something.
| VortexDream wrote:
| I play a lot of JRPGs on my Android tablet. Input is far from
| time sensitive. I still prefer a gamepad 100% of the time and
| I just won't play at all if I don't have one on me. The UX is
| simply not comparable.
| whazor wrote:
| Get a Razer Kishi or Backbone (seems better for iPhone) for your
| current phone. Much better experience as you have actual buttons.
| evanextreme wrote:
| Backbone on iPhone is an amazing experience. What shocked me
| was how well they nail the software side of the "game console".
| it has a full home button and button based UX for selecting
| games
| Pxtl wrote:
| I have a clip for a regular xbox-style controller (SteelSeries
| duo) and I gotta say the top-heavy weight is extremely awkward,
| and my phone is pretty small (pixel 4a).
|
| Are those better?
| slezyr wrote:
| Or just use your XBox GamePad with the phone clip
|
| https://cdn-reichelt.de/bilder/web/xxl_ws/E910/8BIT_XB-CLIP_...
| Pxtl wrote:
| I use one and the top heavy weight is super awkward. Nice
| part of the DS was that the weight was in the bottom, the
| flip-up part was just a dumb screen.
| ilikehurdles wrote:
| Why buy a PS5 when you can buy a portable touchscreen device from
| Microsoft for twice the price and none of the games.
| honkycat wrote:
| Virtual buttons... no thanks.
| RandallBrown wrote:
| Imagine if MS would have launched Windows Phone as Xbox Phone and
| focused on making a kickass gaming phone.
| fassssst wrote:
| An astute executive that saw an early prototype of this asked
| "how much does a Nintendo 3DS cost?"
|
| It's a Rube Goldberg gaming machine.
| jtdev wrote:
| Microsoft seems to have Rube Goldberg DNA.
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