[HN Gopher] The problem with 'follow your dream'
___________________________________________________________________
The problem with 'follow your dream'
Author : zeristor
Score : 113 points
Date : 2021-05-22 11:34 UTC (11 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (science.sciencemag.org)
(TXT) w3m dump (science.sciencemag.org)
| genedan wrote:
| I think it's okay. There are plenty of opportunities later in
| life to fall back on a middle class job if your dream doesn't
| work out. Lots of people don't enter my field (actuarial) until
| their late 30s/early 40s. You pass some exams and then start
| applying.
|
| The biggest group of older candidates are ex math teachers who
| couldn't pay the bills with that job, but you do run into an ex
| poker player every now and then.
| whydoyoucare wrote:
| In my experience, the only way to be happy most of the time with
| what you do is possible iff you are _intrinsically_ motivated to
| do it.
|
| If you make money doing it, that is the best case scenario. Else
| you can make it a hobby, and still be happy. There are no black
| and white answers, unfortunately, and tradeoffs always apply.
| carapace wrote:
| It's "follow your bliss" and it's metaphysical advice you should
| be hearing from your _guru_ not something you should be hearing
| from your career adviser!
| naveen99 wrote:
| Do people literally dream of what they want way in to the future
| ? My dreams usually follow me (closely). If I play tennis, I
| dream about my tennis serve that night.
| thomastjeffery wrote:
| This is a common case where "dream" is used to mean "fantasy".
| naveen99 wrote:
| Fantastic! That makes more sense. Especially since dreams are
| involuntary. But you can have lots of fantasies. They don't
| even have to be logical or feasible. Feasable fantasies are
| just ideas. Most people have multiple ideas, and limited
| resources. I see lots of problems with fantasies of people
| following their fantasies.
| riccardomc wrote:
| It's important to notice that the perspective change is related
| to switching midset from what you dream to _be_ (marine biology
| professor) to what you dream to _do_ (write about science).
|
| The former seems much more about extrinsic motivations: status,
| salary, prestige, title, etc.
|
| I am getting more and more convinced that to have a sustainable
| and fulfilling career you need to be honest with yourself and
| find out what you like to _do_ not what you 'd like to _be_.
|
| Trade-offs apply...
| alert0 wrote:
| >I am getting more and more convinced that to have a
| sustainable and fulfilling career you need to be honest with
| yourself and find out what you like to do not what you'd like
| to be.
|
| This was a huge shift in mentality for me. I wanted to do
| exploit dev, I wanted to (and for a while, did) teach computer
| security online, and the list goes on. There was always this
| huge dissonance when I didn't do those things.
|
| Then I sat down and looked at what I did do. I program
| obsessively. I defined that as what I enjoyed doing, rather
| than conflating what I wanted to do or be with what I enjoyed
| doing. I don't reverse engineer or create content for 10 hours
| a day. I do sit down and work on problems I'm excited about
| though.
| amelius wrote:
| "I always wanted to be somebody, but now I realize I should
| have been more specific."
|
| -- L. Tomlin
| unishark wrote:
| There is something to be said for the therapeutic value of
| failing miserably, when it comes to helping you move on and
| live without any more regrets about it.
|
| The problem with a dream like marine-biology-professor in
| particular is it can take so many years to find out you have
| failed due to the tantalizingly low rung of grad school
| admissions and postdoc jobs.
| fnord77 wrote:
| this is very true. I kinda realized this early on. I wanted to
| _be_ a physician. When I did the volunteer time in a hospital,
| I realized for the most part I did not want to do what doctors
| did.
| rationalData wrote:
| This doesn't work in the medical field. Physicians are the
| wealthy king's and every layer under asks for permission.
|
| A high school grad may be vaguely aware of this, but the
| reality is that many people choose to be a nurse and find out
| later the realities of the job.
|
| There's no research, there is little growth. You don't get to
| change your job. Your title is exactly what you do.
|
| Same story for the various lab techs.
| randomsearch wrote:
| I agree. This is the biggest misunderstanding about what
| "follow your passion" means.
|
| It doesn't mean "I want to win Wimbledon so I should follow my
| tennis"
|
| It means "I love playing tennis. I should pursue that and make
| it my vocation."
|
| The attacks on "follow your passion" really annoy me, because
| they're based on a straw man that says - you need to blindly
| follow what you enjoy and ignore all other concerns. Which is
| stupid, and no one would ever advocate for that. We're just
| saying - life is short, do what you love, and aim to make it
| your main vocation. All within reason, which shouldn't need to
| be said.
|
| And now all these people are saying "don't follow your passion
| follow the money" and it's just the worst advice, because at
| least if you follow your passion you'll enjoy what you do
| _some_ of the time, even if that time is around a day job.
| TheRealNGenius wrote:
| So basically what you're saying is it's about the journey
| rather than the destination... I like it
| lotsofpulp wrote:
| > I am getting more and more convinced that to have a
| sustainable and fulfilling career you need to be honest with
| yourself and find out what you like to do not what you'd like
| to be.
|
| I think the vast majority of people in the world do not have
| this luxury. They should be working backwards by figuring out
| what their goals are, prioritizing them, figuring out how much
| they cost, and then figuring out what they can sell (including
| type of labor) to make that requisite income happen with the
| highest probability.
|
| For example, do you want to write about science more than you
| want to have children and be able to purchase a home in a high
| end neighborhood? Do you want to be not working in the evenings
| and weekends and find and marry a spouse who also is not?
| silvestrov wrote:
| For most people "what their goals are" is just "high social
| status".
|
| So it's a dead end to start with this because you just end up
| with "earn a lot of money" without any more information about
| how to reach the goal.
|
| It also assumes that people are very good at career planning.
| If not, then it might be better to just follow the main
| stream.
| lotsofpulp wrote:
| That is lack of parental guidance. For example, if a kid
| has dreams about living in LA and becoming an actor, their
| guardians should show them the data about the chances of
| being able to afford various lifestyles. Not that there is
| anything wrong with that goal, but the kid's expectations
| should be in line with reality.
|
| If they're coming out of high school and their goal is
| "high social status", something went wrong in the
| parenting. I would hope that does not apply to the
| majority, but I guess it's not out of the realm of
| possibilities.
| lumost wrote:
| My experience with most students majoring in Business in
| undergrad is exactly that. They desire a successful
| career, and so assume that this requires a business
| degree to become a manager.
|
| The outcome for most who do not go into finance is a rude
| awakening that most high paid individuals in a business
| have a technical skill which allows them to produce.
| There is a very limited market for entry level people
| managers who lack the skills of employees.
|
| One acquaintance of mine discovered his business degree
| qualified for a job managing the schedules, incoming
| deals, and pricing of HVAC technicians at roughly half
| the income of the HVAC technicians with a comparatively
| limited career advancement route. Considering that this
| management position also cost twice the education time
| the business degree had a highly questionable ROI.
| RhodoGSA wrote:
| Internships are pretty much required in this day and age.
| Almost to where the whole point of college is to intern.
| Those companies are going to be how you get hire, no one
| cares that you got a degree - Almost every ambitious
| person nowadays gets a degree, so the only differentiator
| is if i can see you work.
| lotsofpulp wrote:
| The hurdle to get a "business" degree is low, so it is a
| poor signal of drive/intelligence/network, hence the poor
| ROI.
|
| That's why there is such an emphasis on STEM education
| for those looking to maximize income. The higher the
| hurdle, the more valuable the hurdle is as a signal to
| others. Hence the competitiveness of entry at some
| schools.
| the_only_law wrote:
| Even many STEM majors have terrible outcomes. Science?
| Most of those you're going to need a PhD and you're still
| going to be paid shit. Maybe an industrial R&D scientist
| with many years (perhaps decades) of experience can make
| it ok, but that's a gamble. Technology? This one seems to
| be the he safest bet, software developers ofc can make
| nearly unheard amounts of money as a wage worker and IT
| work seems to pull in an ok amount once you've
| established enough experience. Engineering? Ok I guess,
| admittedly I've been very disappointed by the salaries
| I've seen out of a lot of engineering fields though.
| Math? Not a particularly valuable field in itself. I
| doubt there's any employment for mathematicians outside
| academia, however I will admit the skill set can be
| widely applicable and even useful to other industries
| (including some aforementioned) so I won't discount it
| too much.
| lumost wrote:
| In order to have negotiating power as an employee there
| must be scarcity of labor for those skills. Considering
| that debt is effectively free, any seemingly lucrative
| field can be quickly inundated with additional supply of
| skilled labor.
|
| The only way out of this is to have skills which are
| extremely rare owing to lack of training paths, rapidly
| changing execution skills, or demand which rapidly
| outstrips training capacity.
|
| e.g. Software Engineer with experience in the latest X,
| NeuroSurgeon, Software Engineer with experience on
| hyperscale services etc.
| aahortwwy wrote:
| Most children aren't data-driven.
| lotsofpulp wrote:
| I'm not sure if you mean the decision to have the kid for
| most kids was not data driven, or if you mean most high
| schoolers are not receptive to data when making
| decisions.
|
| If the former, then I would say that is changing and see
| plummeting fertility rates in developed countries as
| proof.
|
| If latter, then yes, teenagers can be extra prone to
| making non data driven decisions due to various reasons,
| but the hope is maybe it can instruct them in the future
| if not today?
| matthias509 wrote:
| > Most children aren't data-driven.
|
| Most people aren't data-driven.
|
| Parents, teachers, guidance counselors etc are also part
| of the problem.
| riccardomc wrote:
| I think is more nuanced than this. Parental guidance is
| often the source of the issue: you convince yourself your
| dream is to be a good student to please or impress your
| parents, teachers, friends, bosses.
|
| There's nothing wrong with that, as long as you build a
| satisfying life for yourself.
|
| But make sure that you live your own dream not your
| parents'.
|
| And to avoid that risk, you need to think long and hard
| how you want to fill your time. This means focusing on
| what you like to _do_ instead of being miserable _being_
| someone you 're not.
| lotsofpulp wrote:
| > Parental guidance is often the source of the issue: you
| convince yourself your dream is to be a good student to
| please or impress your parents, teachers, friends,
| bosses.
|
| That sounds like a different issue. By parental guidance,
| I mean offering your experience and resources as a parent
| to the child to help them model their world. For example,
| if my kid came to me and said their goal is to make and
| sell clay art full time, then I would not dissuade them.
| I would, however, ask them if they have other goals like
| buying a nice house or living in a certain area or
| attracting a certain type of spouse, and let them know of
| the various probabilities of that. A parent is a cabinet
| member, the kid is still the president.
|
| > This means focusing on what you like to do instead of
| being miserable being someone you're not.
|
| The purpose of my original comment was to point out that
| most people do not have the luxury of not being miserable
| just because they do not want to be. A plumber does not
| spend time in crawl space because they like to. But the
| plumber has multiple goals, and compromises have to be
| made to accomplish various portions of various goals.
| Such as not being able to do what you like to do for x
| hours a week, but in exchange, you get a high probability
| of being able to feed and house your family to your
| acceptable standards. And then having a couple days a
| week where you do get to "be someone you want to be".
| touisteur wrote:
| Yes, it is important to try and teach your kids that
| compromising is part of life, that you can't always get
| what you want, and that you should try to secure
| financial security before 'shooting for the stars'. But
| parents alone don't do everything. I feel our whole
| society is strangely wired to tell people to follow their
| dreams, not to listen to naysayers, etc. Try telling kids
| that they'll have to do mindnumbing _tiring_ shit 5 days
| a week to be able to afford 2 days of rest where they can
| be 'someone they want to be' is a losing proposition.
|
| I'd feel better as a parent if they liked a lot of stuff
| (manual, intellectual, artistic, helping, electronics,
| clothes, cooking, selling, building, repairing,
| teaching), had an open mind and excellent work ethic, so
| that when they find themselves doing any job, they'll try
| to excel, find something in it, and 'be who they want to
| be' in their job too. Office politics, the way you treat
| others, helping colleagues, improving your skills, taking
| responsibilities, being a responsible and helpful member
| of a team or a society, keeping ethics standards high...
| You name it. They can also be achieved through work,
| while not really being fond of what you're doing. CPA,
| blue collar jobs (or plumber for you) don't seem to be
| dream careers, but there's many opportunities to be a
| productive, impactful, helpful and happy member of
| society while working those.
| bopbeepboop wrote:
| What makes plumber not a dream career?
|
| I think there's a lot of bias and assumption about what
| people want behind your comment.
| jnxx wrote:
| > For most people "what their goals are" is just "high
| social status".
|
| My suspicion is that this is only an auxiliary goal to get
| something else - which might be some degree of material
| security. Especially in societies where social security is
| weak or non-existent. A high social status can sometimes be
| helpful because it increases negotiating power. And this
| might be one reason why people might buy expensive cars and
| such. But I think it is rarely the end goal, because it is
| so unspecific and has little to do what an individual /is/.
| haihaibye wrote:
| > an individual is
|
| An individual is a highly social primate that saw
| reproductive gains from status (for both sexes) during
| its evolutionary history.
|
| With status being 'cash in the bank' for so many desired
| things including security and mating success, why
| wouldn't accumulating enough of it be an end goal, at
| least in the mind of an individual?
|
| Doesn't your theory predict that as people get
| richer/more secure they'd care less about social status?
| I tend to see the opposite, and people care very much
| about relative vs absolute wealth a lot.
| carapace wrote:
| It's interesting that the perspective change seems to involve
| switching from a future projection (of what you want to
| be[come]) to in-the-moment (what makes you happy as you do it.)
| alboaie wrote:
| Obviously, no advice fits all. But with wisdom, it makes sense
| for smart, hard working and motivated people. It is wiser to take
| life as a set of " experiences" and not as a war with yourself to
| get in your dreamland. However, folowing your dream is one of the
| important experiences...
| acdanger wrote:
| "A man is a success if he gets up in the morning and gets to bed
| at night and in between does what he wants to do."
| corobo wrote:
| > I should follow my dream, and if I didn't yet know what that
| was, I should live with career uncertainty until I figured it out
|
| Yyyyyuuuppp. I'm now 33 and still haven't figured out my 'dream'
|
| I have figured out I probably have ADHD though. Cheers for
| missing that, school.
| Ensorceled wrote:
| I was diagnosed with ADHD in my fifties ... lots and lots of
| people (including me) missed it.
| corobo wrote:
| Got my decider appointment on the 2nd!
|
| Tell you what, whether I have it or not learning of ADHD and
| using the techniques that work for it has helped immensely.
| I'll take that if nothing else!
|
| Yeah I completely missed it too. It'd be great if there was
| some way for schools to pick it up! Probably through seeing
| how certain students learn and providing differing education
| style as needed. It might even already be the case to be
| fair, it's been a minute since I was at school
| bijant wrote:
| Sadly most of the research on adapting teaching styles to
| students learning styles has been completely relegated to
| special needs education in most countries. The Potential in
| Neurodiversity is not really appreciated in mainstream
| Education where it is mainly seen as a disability or
| hindrance to following a standard curriculum. But the more
| we learn about the brain and cognitive development the
| clearer it becomes, that Neurodiversity is not an
| aberration but a fundamental feature of human evolution. An
| educational System rooted in the 19th century based on a
| fordistic conception of Students and Teachers does not
| align with contemporary research and will have to be
| thoroughly disrupted.
| swader999 wrote:
| Just going off your writing style I'd bet you lean that
| way. And I don't mean it in a bad way. It can be like a
| super power if you can tame it properly.
| corobo wrote:
| I'm completely ok with having ADHD! Relieved even if it
| turns out a bit of medication might bring me closer to
| actually finishing a project!
| swader999 wrote:
| It'll be life changing but a bit like flowers for
| Algernon in that the effect fades over the years with
| tolerance.
| corobo wrote:
| As long as I create something in that "a bit" that sets
| me for life I'm good to go
|
| and if that doesn't happen at least I'll have tried haha
| Ensorceled wrote:
| Yeah, knowing why I've been having these problems all my
| life; that I'm not lazy, lacking in will power or just
| stubborn, was the biggest relief.
| SyzygistSix wrote:
| >and using the techniques that work for it has helped
| immensely
|
| What resources did you use to find those techniques?
|
| edit: nevermind. I saw your other comment; "
|
| Essentially I watched every video from the YouTube channel
| HowToADHD" Thank you.
| topicseed wrote:
| Off-topic but do you mind sharing some of those helpful
| techniques?
| corobo wrote:
| Essentially I watched every video from the YouTube
| channel HowToADHD
|
| I wish I could give a perfect headline technique as an
| example but it's more changing how you do things to work
| with the way your mind works instead of against it
|
| http://youtube.com/HowtoADHD
| ivanmontillam wrote:
| Following your dreams also has other problems: What you want to
| do might not be "marketable" (not everyone might be willing to
| pay you for it).
|
| Whatever you do and you're good at must also match a market
| requirement, otherwise you will starve.
| elicash wrote:
| The advice in the article -- find something you're both good at
| and also love, and recognize they aren't necessarily the same
| things -- is pretty much exactly the normal advice that people
| give. I think the implication of "follow your dream" is that if
| you love it, you'll be willing to work harder and therefore be
| better.
|
| It's worth noting some people are wired differently. If I loved
| acting, I'm not wired in a way where I could move to L.A. and
| spend a decade of my life to trying for and probably not getting
| various roles. I know myself, I'm risk-averse and need stability.
| But for somebody else, that's exactly what they should do.
|
| Any advice aimed at EVERYone is going to be wrong for some
| people.
| svantana wrote:
| Even among just software developers, I've noticed that
| personalities differ a lot in this respect. I know a bunch of
| devs who don't seem to care too much what they're working on,
| they will churn through at a medium pace regardless. But for
| me, I'm probably 10x more productive if I work on something I'm
| passionate about. So I've decided to "follow my dream" in
| software, it just makes more sense for me.
| swader999 wrote:
| That's one of the good things about this game. There are a
| lot of different paths and domains to explore within it.
| Anything that you do that develops skills should keep your
| options open to find satisfaction.
| monster_group wrote:
| I always wanted to be a physicist. I even got into a Physics
| program in a decent college. But my dad forced me to go the
| engineering route and I switched my major. Two decades later, I
| often wonder what my life would have been if I hadn't done what
| he told me. Physics is super hard and regardless of my passion
| and devotion I don't think I would have been very good at it (I
| can't even do dynamic programming problems asked in coding
| interviews - so unlikely I would have done any useful research in
| physics). I would have been languishing as a professor in some
| unknown college making significantly less money. But the dream
| hasn't died out though. I still fantasize about being a physicist
| working on black holes or cosmology. But I have accepted it will
| forever remain a dream.
| mathgenius wrote:
| > working on black holes or cosmology
|
| 99% of theoretical physics papers consist of torturous
| incremental research that no one gives a shit about, not even
| the authors. (I might be exaggerating slightly, but not much.)
| foreigner wrote:
| Same exact scenario happened with me! I'm pretty content with
| my engineering career though.
| selimthegrim wrote:
| I mean that sort of studying is useful for passing the
| qualifying exam but coming up with things to work on is a whole
| different ballgame
| logicchains wrote:
| >I can't even do dynamic programming problems asked in coding
| interviews - so unlikely I would have done any useful research
| in physics
|
| Solving dynamic programming problems on the spot is about as
| useful to physics (or software design) as reciting the alphabet
| backwards very quickly is to being a good author. A lot of
| those problems were originally solved as someone's thesis (i.e.
| not in 5 minutes). Most people who do well on such problems in
| interviews just spent a lot of time practising, and companies
| like candidates who are willing to spend a bunch of time
| grinding something monotonous because that's what most of the
| work will be if hired.
| mathgenius wrote:
| There are deep connections between dynamic programming
| (Bellman's equation) and the Hamilton-Jacobi wave equation...
| einpoklum wrote:
| > I should think about what I am good at and what makes me happy
| at least 80% of the time.
|
| Even if you had a "job" following your dream, it is quite
| unlikely to make you happy 80% of the time. If you've found
| something to do that makes you happy 80% of the time, _that_ is
| your dream.
|
| > in grad school I saw how applying for grants is a constant
| source of worry for many professors. I realized I did not want to
| be responsible for the salaries of my hypothetical lab members.
|
| If that's all you needed to worry about being a Professor of
| Marine Biology, then your life would indeed be dreamy. Other
| pursuits = other things to worry about and other hassles, often
| much more worries than the bureaucracy of leading a research
| group.
|
| Being a grown-up sucks that way:
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OPi2s1K_pgU
|
| There's another problem with research positions though: There
| aren't any. I mean, there are a few, but a very small few with
| tenure, and in the non-tenure-track ones you often have to
| research stuff you don't care much about. Academia is massively
| underfunded IMHO.
|
| > My writing got noticed, eventually by people at my institution,
| and I was given opportunities to write press releases and stories
| for the university's news bureau.
|
| That seems like a pretty bad job. Especially since one keeps
| being faced by what one's former colleagues have managed to do,
| with one only getting to report on it. IMHO anyway.
|
| > After 3 years of writing, I was offered a position as a science
| writer.
|
| Now that's much nicer, but - scientific writing is a small niche.
| I believe a lot of graduate researchers share most/all of your
| sentiments. I would not suggest they aim for that kind of
| position. Teaching, which was mentioned in the article, is
| relevant. But that is again quite likely to make you happy less
| of the time than research.
|
| ---------
|
| Now let's be a little more general...
|
| We live in a Capitalist and hierarchical society, where resources
| are rarely made available to you without large amounts of money,
| which the vast majority of people don't have. To follow most (?)
| non-trivial dreams, much effort by people with different skills
| is necessary. You would need to locate and convince such people
| to help you. Again, this is facilitated by being super rich,
| which you aren't. You could seek funding, but then you're
| essentially selling your dream to a bunch of investors.
|
| Regardless of social structures, humans' overall time and
| resources are insufficient to realize everyone's life dream. So
| even under ideal conditions you would have to compromise for a
| joint-dream of some sort.
|
| But - this is not necessarily a bad thing. There is absolutely no
| reason why your childhood life-dream would be the same as your
| teenage life-dream, or the same as your university life-dream
| etc: Our dreams and interests change with experience. So it is
| quite possible that if you go do something new which expands your
| horizons, you'll develop different dreams, or a different take on
| your dream. If that process also involves interacting with others
| - a group of friends, a community, maybe that can help the lot of
| you agree on some common dream, and then pool your abilities and
| resources and pursue it together.
| ryanackley wrote:
| This always seemed like common sense to me for various reasons.
| One good reason is that the people that typically give this type
| of advice (counselors and career advisors) are in such banal
| careers themselves. I doubt they are living "their dream". Their
| original dream was probably to be an international spy like James
| Bond or a professional athlete.
| logicchains wrote:
| >One good reason is that the people that typically give this
| type of advice (counselors and career advisors) are in such
| banal careers themselves
|
| It might be poorly compensated but it's not a banal career. A
| good career advisor has the potential to make a huge difference
| in people's lives, more even than a teacher. As someone who
| grew up in a rural lower-class family (where good career advice
| was scarce), I'd have saved a couple mostly wasted years of my
| life if I'd met a good career advisor in high school.
| naveen99 wrote:
| That seems unnecessarily pessimistic. There is literally an
| mbti personality type called counselor "INFJ". An INFJ is a
| born counselor. https://keirsey.com/temperament/idealist-
| counselor/ Example: Gandhi. I doubt he cared about being Bond.
| His ideal of non violence would interfere with a license to
| kill.
| lotsofpulp wrote:
| That personality categorization stuff is unsubstantiated
| nonsense.
|
| Plenty of sources in criticism section:
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myers%E2%80%93Briggs_Type_Indi.
| ..
|
| Although, one can easily see that we do not have the ability
| to perform good experiments with concepts as nebulous and ill
| defined as "personality types".
| naveen99 wrote:
| Here are the definitions by Carl Jung:
|
| http://psychclassics.yorku.ca/Jung/types.htm
|
| https://www.reddit.com/r/Jung/
| Cybotron5000 wrote:
| Now there's a chap who was keen on dreams! :)
| lotsofpulp wrote:
| How does that address the problem that it is not possible
| to perform the experiments necessary to make the strong
| claims?
|
| This is not an issue specific to this idea in popular
| psychology, but in general to almost any field with
| difficult to define parameters.
| naveen99 wrote:
| Even in math it's possible to have conjectures that are
| likely true but may never be proved.
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goldbach%27s_conjecture
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6del%27s_incompletene
| ss_...
|
| Even in physics, you have statistical truths like second
| law of thermodynamics. they allow you to generalize where
| precise computation is impossible.
|
| So Jung's insights into personality attitudes,
| dichotomies of perception and judgment seem like
| interesting conjectures worth knowing about, possibly
| difficult to prove.
| lotsofpulp wrote:
| The difference is the 2nd law of thermodynamics has tons
| of data showing its utility in modeling our world.
| Obviously, humans might be living in a simulation and
| everything is possibly wrong, but the personality test
| thing has many weaknesses and data contrary to its claims
| as summarized in the wiki article. I do not see what
| makes it worth knowing about compared to the litany of
| other pop psychology conjectures.
| naveen99 wrote:
| It wasn't pop psychology when Jung came up with it. it
| stands on its own, just read it. The tests just simplify
| the process for people who don't know the theory. by the
| way since you (and I) are so curious to know your type,
| here is a free test
|
| https://sakinorva.net/functions
| barney54 wrote:
| I had my dream job at 25, only to realize that it had some
| downsides. I really liked it, but it wasn't a job I wanted for
| the rest of my life.
|
| I like the advice in this piece to find something you are good at
| and makes you happy 80% of the time. That's good advice.
| pansa2 wrote:
| > _It 's nothing like my childhood dream. But I am happy--more
| than 80% of the time._
|
| Sounds like being a science writer fulfils the author's _current_
| dreams, though. Perhaps it's OK to follow your dreams, as long as
| you react when your dreams change.
| Opt_Out_Fed_IRS wrote:
| This sort of pessimistic attitude is, in my opinion, the reason
| why we have economic stagflation. The entire history of humanity
| can be summarized with:
|
| "People arrogant and self-confident enough to think they'd be the
| one and they could do no wrong and who'd hold little to no
| regards for the status quo and the concept of opportunity cost"
|
| The self-confidence of people is dropping at an ever increasing
| rate ever since the turn of the millennium, concurrently the
| awareness of the concept of opportunity cost is skyrocketing.
| People blamed the Financial Crisis but I think it's the other way
| around. The financial crisis happened because people self-
| confidence and risk-taking suddenly collapsed (it's not going
| fast that kills you, becoming immediately stationary does).
|
| Economists claim that the biggest 'tragedy of the commons' are
| taxation or the taking care of the environment or public parks.
|
| In reality the biggest 'tragedy of the commons' is people not
| having the confidence to try out whatever crazy idea they have in
| mind with regards to the natural world or the entrepreneurial
| world or the industrial world etc.
|
| It's like we know it's a tragedy of the commons because we
| encourage (or at least we did) people to follow their dreams, but
| in the dark of our office with the curtains closed we play it
| safe .
|
| We need to try a lot of crazy ideas, some of them will stick and
| we could go back at having 10% YoY real growth...but we are
| afraid to do so ourselves because we don't want to try and fail,
| we want to try and win! And get the accolades and status which
| goes with it.
|
| At the same time who knows if other people are trying themselves
| or they are playing it safe? Maybe in the dark of their office
| with the curtains closed, just relentlessly buying the S&P and
| index funds in awe of their preacher John Boogle....the
| similarities with tax avoidance/climate/public good care is again
| there to be seen.
|
| I think it's a known problem outside of academia.
|
| Ray Dalio mentions it very often [1] and Sergey Brin [2]
| dedicated a couple of minutes to this problem in a talk he gave
| at Davos (I guess if you follow your dream long enough that's
| where you end up!) and thinks the Internet is at fault for this
| pessimistic attitude
|
| The internet might have complicated things even further, people
| were already becoming more and more risk averse, now they have a
| projection of all the things which could go wrong as well as
| rapid access to the info about the #1 person in that domain so
| they can compare themselves against their accomplishments. They
| become stuck in a "play it safe" and "analysis paralysis" mode
| for a very long time before actually experimenting.
|
| Other than the internet I guess the only other reason could be
| the ever diminishing levels of testosterone in the median male
| (of all age groups and ethnicity). Testosterone has been
| declining and nobody knows why.
|
| It makes sense in theory, Testosterone is correlated with risk-
| taking, might also explain societal changes and the constant
| level of stress which is put nowadays on security, safety,
| financial stability. In one word Stasis. Might also be the reason
| why a President like Trump is not acceptable whereas John F.
| Kennedy and Lyndon Johnson who were exactly the same personality
| and all around the same persona were elevated as heroes
| (initially by the left but also nationally)
|
| There is some hopes though, people who take shots have a much
| less crowded trade so to speak. There is also the reason why I
| should remember myself that a guy like Musk extracting his
| richest man in the world wealth and status from Tesla before the
| company is even out of the woods of bankruptcy and insolvency
| would have earned him the title of scam artist and fraudster a
| while ago. Today people are so adamant and desire to see somebody
| take a shot that would elevate him and praise him, because in a
| world where nobody tries , he does.
|
| [1] https://youtu.be/XTKXrojiCrA?t=235
|
| [2] https://youtu.be/ffvu6Mr1SVc?t=1630
| raobit wrote:
| You put out some of the good points, agree to it,especially the
| last line!!
| Opt_Out_Fed_IRS wrote:
| Thanks! By the way if we are talking about people who got a
| hold of the problem Brin and Dalio are the first who did
| mention it in a public way but I am sure there are others.
|
| Similarly I have to stress that what is happening with Musk
| right now is not normal, those are the type of exagerations
| and grotesque situations which happen when the stagflation
| and stasis is really inflicting its toll.
|
| Richest man in the world can't be the CEO of a company on the
| constant edge of going under. In a world were everybody takes
| risks, the public would have not been captured by the rarity
| of such all-in endevours and the stock would have never
| propelled to 800B
| throw_this_one wrote:
| Same persona and personality publicly? Lol.
| selimthegrim wrote:
| JFK's record with women and Trump's are not too different.
| Opt_Out_Fed_IRS wrote:
| Meaning they had lots of them?
|
| Trump finances were really bad in 2000 and then the financial
| crisis hit.
|
| Had he managed to run in 2000 he'd have been a regular
| President. He'd have gone down as 43(D)
|
| It's not Trump who changed from 2000 to 2016, society did and
| now the walk-in closet of what's socially acceptable is much
| smaller
| selimthegrim wrote:
| JFK would probably be indicted for rape by a grand jury
| today.
| unnouinceput wrote:
| The advice with going with what are you good at and makes you
| happy 80% of the time is a good one if you're not 100% passionate
| about something. If, on the other hand, you do find a passion on
| a profession then go with it 100% percent and "follow the dream".
|
| Even with this context "the dream" can change over time though.
| In the beginning I thought my dream was electronics since at 16
| "the bug" hit me and started to devour tons of books and practice
| little circuits on garage. However once I failed to enter at my
| desired Uni and landed on an adjacent one the dream changed once
| I was face to face with a computer.
|
| Currently, having a 25+ years career in software development, I
| can also do electronics on the side. With IoT and hardware-
| software integration I am involved in both worlds but I consider
| myself a software developer first and secondly a "good enough" at
| electronics.
|
| I do realize I am one of the lucky few that got to "follow your
| dream" and land on a lucrative one at the same time, but for the
| first 10 years was not that easy in Europe to do that. EU market
| drop at beginning of 2000's combined with my "amazing" country's
| politicians made me struggle just above poor line at times. Only
| after 2005 onward I could say this career also allowed me to live
| good.
| swader999 wrote:
| If your dream is something that can be achieved by hard work
| rather than luck or being a statistical outlier then go for it,
| especially if it gives you a livelihood.
|
| Another idea is to time box it. Dedicate every fiber in you to it
| for a fixed amount of time and at the end of that truly evaluate
| your odds. This kind of dedicated application and focus does
| transfer into other areas.
|
| When it comes to sports, you are only young once and school and a
| vocation will always be there. But have an exit plan and a hard
| cutoff where you really evaluate your trajectory.
|
| If you have a dream and a well defined purpose that fills you
| with passion don't throw it away casually. It is a rare thing to
| know exactly what you want. Figure out a way if you can.
|
| For the rest that can't determine their dream, choose goals and
| paths that give you the most options at their end. Don't decide
| what you are going to be for the rest of your life, pick a place
| you want to be at in three to five years and shoot for this.
| truth_ wrote:
| I hate the self-help industry with passion. But I liked Cal
| Newport's book _So Good They Can 't Ignore You: Why Skills Trump
| Passion in the Quest for Work You Love_ [0] exactly for this
| reason.
|
| He debunked the "passion hypothesis" and gave practical advices
| along with the stories of several successful people from real
| life.
|
| He is vehemently against "follow your passion" advice. He said in
| his book that if Steve Jobs focused on what he was passionate
| about, he would be a Zen monk in some monastery, and not a tech
| billionaire.
|
| I picked up his book because he is a CS PhD and Asst. Professor,
| and not another 'buy-my-book-because-I-am-successful-in-selling-
| this-book' guy.
|
| This is a short book and I highly recommend it.
|
| [0]: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/13525945-so-good-they-
| ca...
| Cybotron5000 wrote:
| "...if Steve Jobs focused on what he was passionate about, he
| would be a Zen monk in some monastery..." - sounds like bunk to
| me - you won't be surprised to hear I didn't know the guy
| personally, but everything I've read about him and heard him
| say in interviews etc. suggests he was deeply passionate about
| both design and technology? Zen might have informed aspects of
| his aesthetic sensibilities (is that really Zen though?) and
| maybe his spiritual life, who knows, but I wouldn't have
| thought becoming a monk was exactly his 'thing'? I also have an
| instinctive loathing of the self-help industry (and 'personal
| brand'-ers even more) and I agree that you need skills and hard
| work to back up your passions and dreams - when you get a
| chance, or create one, you need to be able to capitalise on it
| (a mistake I definitely made in my life when self-promotion
| outclassed capacity to deliver), but why not have a 'dream' and
| allow yourself to think differently some of the time?
| Especially if you can visualise some sort of tangible path to
| achieving your goals and break them into doable steps... Much
| good in the world has been created by people with a bit of
| imagination, a dream if you like, of how the world might be
| made better (and arguably much ill also)... People are blessed
| with the capacity to experiment - to try things out and do
| something different if they fail... I'd like to see a world
| were people were more able to do that and survive to fight
| another day - without worrying about being deported, or made
| homeless, or getting into debt, or needing food aid, or even
| not being able to afford a family... Maybe there's some sort of
| balance to be aimed at that lies between long term dreams and
| goals and short term pragmatic compromise, between
| experimentation and practicality... Life might be better with
| some art alongside the accountancy you know?/pure theoretical
| and sometimes unproductive scientific research alongside hard-
| nosed capitalisation andy marketing makes both stronger and
| gives both the ability to continue to flourish in the long
| term?
| truth_ wrote:
| Yes, Jobs was deeply passionate about technology and design.
| But the interviews and talks that you mention are from later
| stages of his life. I read his biography and watched multiple
| biopics. What you say is true. But what I am talking about,
| and the author talked about is about his teenage and post-
| teen years. During and before the time he started his very
| first "tech venture" with cream-soda drinking Woz.
|
| And I agree that people should dream. But they should base it
| on certain things, for example-
|
| 0. Nature of the field. If you are 10,000th best Engineer in
| the world or the 20,000th best Math teacher, you will have 0
| problems financially.
|
| 1. Past success and ability in your dream field
|
| etc.
|
| The Japanese concept of Ikigai also comes to mind in this
| context.
|
| I love the dreamers and see myself as same, and I want people
| to be aware of these knowledges before taking the leap and
| becoming and remaining a dreamer.
| Cybotron5000 wrote:
| I'd not heard of 'Ikigai' - what a lovely concept to have
| one word for - thanks for that! ...for anyone else
| similarly ignorant: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ikigai
| thaw13579 wrote:
| I would second the recommendation, and also add one of the main
| arguments, which is that most people get satisfaction from
| being excellent at something, and what that is specifically
| might not matter as much as we think. So as long as you find a
| job that involves a valuable task with a long course of
| progressively improved proficiency, that can often become a
| source of passion as strong as our initial guess.
| iainctduncan wrote:
| That's a great article.
|
| I too an earning money doing something I never thought I'd be
| doing. But I got here just following the scent of what people
| appreciated me the most for, and most of the time, it's a good
| job. All of the time, it's a high paying job. And half of my
| time, I'm not at it. :-)
|
| Peter Drucker says in one his seminal business books "look for
| the easy wins", even when they aren't where you think you should
| be looking. Because they point you at what you can do really well
| at. Best business advice I think I could give anyone.
| scanr wrote:
| I think follow your dreams (or perhaps find what you're
| passionate about) is ok but only part of the advice.
|
| The rest is:
|
| - Understand what the job really entails. Speak to people who
| currently do it, try get work experience doing it etc.
|
| - look at supply and demand, if only 0.01% of the people who are
| doing it are making any money, that's a tough market to do well
| in.
|
| - look for barriers to entry that you can overcome that limits
| supply. See what's involved in building a moat. Passion helps
| with this.
|
| - work to address the bias towards jobs that sound interesting to
| everyone eg YouTube celebrity, game designer, footballer etc,
| although these also fail at the supply and demand stage. Actively
| look for jobs that are less obvious that have the properties you
| like.
|
| - consider you're career holistically e.g. does it fit with the
| lifestyle you'd like, is it populated by the kinds of people
| you'd like to work with, how likely is a stable income.
|
| - think long term, dreams change, how hard would it be to pivot
|
| etc.
| raobit wrote:
| yeah some good amount of honest self-questioning, introspection
| for the above questions is really needed
| kazen44 wrote:
| another piece of advice i would like to advise is that you
| should figure at what kind of work you are good at, regardless
| of the career.
|
| Are you someone who gets energy from working with other people?
| Helping other people and solving social problems? or are you
| happy when you solve technical or discrete problems?
|
| figuring this kind of stuff out is far better then "following
| your dreams in job X".
| the_only_law wrote:
| And what do you do when you're not particularly good at
| anything? At least anything considered valuable.
| thewizardofaus wrote:
| I think it's important to be realistic with your dreams and
| expectations for them.
|
| I am an 'elite athlete'. I compete in one of the oldest
| sports/events in history.
|
| I am top 3 in the country and top 60 in the world.
|
| My dream is to be a full-time athlete and represent my country at
| the 2024 Olympics and also many Major international competitions.
|
| Unfortunately, I will never make a 'living' from my sport. After
| sponsorship deals and prize money the Top 5 athletes in the world
| are making $100K USD (before flights/accommodation/manager fees)
|
| I am perfectly content with that and it has influenced my
| lifestyle greatly.
|
| I chose to get a good education and work from home and pursue
| X/Y/Z because it gives me more freedom to Train and pursue my
| "real-dreams".
| agustif wrote:
| I have this crazy idea to make a patreon for sports...
|
| I hate how the sports world has been consumed by -top players-
| on the most lucrative markets, which are mostly marketing
| products.
|
| I love sports but hate the sports current -way of selling out-,
| the power law distributions, etc...
|
| I do think someone should get up and running a
| Patreon/KickStarter for sports....
|
| You as an athlete put up your profile, you can put updates with
| your training etc, and you have your -goals- competitions you
| want to attend in the future and need X dollars for
| equipment/travel expenses etc...
|
| Just a random idea, reading an athlete like you telling how it
| is, makes me think it's more needed than ever.
| maneesh wrote:
| I have a crazy idea to make an 'Xtreme Olympics' where
| participants are allowed to take any substances that they'd
| like, as long as they are communicated so viewers can see
| which participant took which steroid and which stimulants.
|
| I'd watch that.
| throwaway3699 wrote:
| Not practical either, the power law still applies to Patreon
| creators and the like.
| agustif wrote:
| Yeah but the mission would be that any person who wants to
| do a sport, is able to do it and doesn't just skip it for
| monetary reasons...
|
| You still probably won't make 100k/year from it, but no
| athlete should have to not go to a competition, or not be
| able to train or afford the equipment, etc...
|
| But yeah, I'm not even an athlete so what would I know, heh
| throwaway3699 wrote:
| I get you, but things are even less distributed than
| you'd expect. The bottom 90% (95%?) of Patreon creators
| can't even make minimum wage. The top 1% are reigning in
| FAANG salaries from the Midwest.
| agustif wrote:
| Yep, get you too, I just stay away from it. But yeah some
| ideas ain't good enough to pursue
| Viliam1234 wrote:
| Could you do this with regular Patreon?
|
| I am not familiar with details how exactly it works, I guess
| you are supposed to provide some media to your subscribers,
| but I guess you could simply publish videos from your
| training, or make a vlog before/after a competition. The idea
| is that people would not pay you because the videos are super
| awesome, but simply because they are your fans.
|
| The subscriber tiers could be like "sponsor", "sponsor who
| gets autograms", and maybe something special for those who
| pay really lot.
| agustif wrote:
| Yeah prob, but I think it doesn't help it's more oriented
| to -content- creators.
|
| Content should'nt matter...
|
| I got the idea from my couple's sisters needs, she does
| iron mans all around the world, travelling there ain't
| cheap. Also bikes and shit etc, but I never got along
| building any of it.
| ambicapter wrote:
| You can already do some version of this on social media, no?
| They post a bunch of content on their life/training, there
| are ways to monetize that attention, etc.
| abdullahkhalids wrote:
| Valve introduced a variant of this for Dota 2 recently. But
| they take a 50% cut. And it's more team based, than
| individual based.
|
| https://www.dota2.com/newsentry/3066366095803889976
| FriedrichN wrote:
| >oldest sports/events in history
|
| That has to be some form of running, right?
| [deleted]
| rosetremiere wrote:
| > oldest sports/events in history.
|
| which one?
| throw_this_one wrote:
| Trolling.
| plater wrote:
| Wrestling?
| Mulpze15 wrote:
| Betting on rowing
| everdrive wrote:
| Prostitution.
| swader999 wrote:
| I think this is only a demonstration event at the Olympics.
| selimthegrim wrote:
| I think Matthew Syed wrote the definitive article on the
| subject.
| nxpnsv wrote:
| I guess archery...
| dopidopHN wrote:
| Is he not referring to the Olympic?
| Hermel wrote:
| In my experience, it is much easier to love what you do than to
| do what you love. I think I could develop a passion for a vast
| spectrum of goals.
| kurthr wrote:
| I agree, but I would expand that to love what you're good at
| doing... or at least good at learning to do.
| ExcavateGrandMa wrote:
| Usually a good job where you feeling good at doing it...
|
| "feeling good" is the happiness...
|
| Also my grand daddy always told me that the work is health!
|
| I agree with that... :)
| fuzzfactor wrote:
| You need to have realistic dreams to be worth following.
|
| Fortunately, or unfortunately as the case may be, the most
| realistic dreams can be the most ominous by far.
|
| And you need to recognize the nightmares early and run the other
| way.
| emmap21 wrote:
| What works for me is diversifying experience. Life is a box of
| chocolate, you will never know what you are gonna get.
| dopidopHN wrote:
| My dream was to do something loosely related to science and be
| able to sustain myself. ( un-employment was really, really high
| and made scary by the media where I grew up. )
|
| Mission accomplished!
|
| Joke aside, I grew up with a undertone of "whatever you do, think
| about the fact that you will have to pay the bill son"
|
| A experience that is wildly different from my US wife. Bless her
| heart.
| sershe wrote:
| Why would one expect following their dream would correlate in any
| way to success in life? If anything, given that people think (and
| dream) alike, it would lead to supply glut in specific fields.
| That is probably a part of the explanation of the low salaries in
| e.g. education, or working with animals.
|
| I can think of other reasons, for an average person, to
| absolutely not in any way try to follow their dream as a source
| of livelihood; what are the arguments FOR it, though? How did
| this idea even come about; is it related to the "self esteem" fad
| in education?
| jollybean wrote:
| I laughed out loud because _all_ of the girls I grew up with
| wanted to be 'Marine Biologists' as young kids, which is pretty
| difficult given how very, very few jobs there are in that field.
|
| We should also reference the fact that people coming up through
| the academic system generally have very little exposure to
| anything else - it's natural for them to believe that
| 'professorship' is somehow this great and noble thing, because
| the system they are in effectively enforces that psychologically.
| Which is why I believe internships should be a part of the
| process for almost everyone.
|
| Also almost never referenced in these talks: many people have an
| inherent, communitarian instinct. Their 'dream' isn't that
| important, rather what they want to do is 'their duty' - which is
| to say 'be useful to the community'.
|
| Personally my communitarian instinct is much stronger than
| individual aspirational instinct, and so literally 'my dream' is
| something like 'to do my job very well'. I would be considerably
| 'more proud' to have effectively created a 'good company' that
| 'employs people' and 'creates work for others' - than having
| written a really good album.
|
| Those with such a communitarian instict may look at those
| 'pursuing their dreams' as being selfish.
|
| I believe that if you were to ask the questions properly, you'd
| find that maybe more than 1/2 of the population is like this.
|
| For example, raising children is 'exhausting, draining' and
| generally not considered an aspiration, and yet for many it's
| possibly the most fulfilling thing they've done in their lives.
|
| I wish we would teach children about the fulfillment they get
| from doing useful things and being of service to others, as much
| as we taught the aspirational elements.
| motohagiography wrote:
| Your dreams are mostly envy, I wouldn't put too much stake in
| them. Knowing this will save you at least a few years. (You're
| welcome!)
|
| Do what you enjoy, understand and appreciate what it means to be
| among the best at it, and then learn to do it very well.
| ne0flex wrote:
| I had a professor in university that would often say, "follow
| your dream, keep following it into the convinience store because
| that's where you're going to end up."
|
| He was saying it in reference kids who would practice hip-hop
| dance and pursue it as though they'd all actually get somewhere
| with it.
|
| His advice was. "raise your bar up until it's stable and won't
| fall back down, then try to kick it up so that if it were to come
| back down, it'll stop where you left off but won't go lower." Or
| stabilize yourself first, then shoot for the stars that way even
| if you fail you can fall back to where you were before.
| Biganon wrote:
| This Professor had a thing for needlessly complicated
| metaphors, it appears
| [deleted]
| pansa2 wrote:
| > _I should think about what I am good at and what makes me happy
| at least 80% of the time._
|
| Reminds me of the advice that the ideal situation is to find
| something that you love, that you are good at, that you can get
| paid for, and that the world needs.
|
| I'm currently "following my dream" because with enough work I
| hope it will satisfy the first three, and I've (selfishly?)
| decided that I should prioritise doing what I love over doing
| something the world needs.
| disambiguation wrote:
| I think the "maslows hierarchy" model applies here.
|
| Dreams would be at the top, the mistakes people make is chasing
| the top without fulfilling their needs first.
| TimPC wrote:
| Follow your dream is actually terrible advice because dreams
| change over time. It leads to people overcommitting to their
| current self in a fairly destructive way. It essentially
| maximizes career happiness at the expense of all other life
| goals.
|
| Figure out your life goals. Find jobs that meet them where you
| would be happy (or at least not unhappy). Pick from among those
| to maximize your life goals and happiness is a much better
| algorithm.
| user05202021 wrote:
| >Follow your dream is actually terrible advice
|
| "Figure out your life goals" sounds like the same thing.
| TimPC wrote:
| Follow your dream is generally meant as 'get a dream career'.
| Figure out life goals might mean working a job of average
| happiness because the money is important for you in raising
| your family. I think there is a big difference.
| [deleted]
| swader999 wrote:
| Your life goals can change as much as your dreams do.
| alexpetralia wrote:
| This is what I refer to as "the postmodern critique." Nothing
| is unimpeachable, static, or objectively true: your dreams,
| goals, beliefs and so on. Everything changes, everything is
| relative. I agree with this critique.
|
| This view however suffers from what I call "the postmodern
| trap." If everything is relative - if there is no objective
| function to maximize - then how do you actually _do_
| anything? There exists no optimal decision - no rationally
| justifiable decision at all - because there is no direction
| upon which you can orient for any reasonable period of time.
| And so postmodernism, while logically sound, leads to abject
| paralysis. This is the trap of an entirely deconstructive and
| equally self-deconstructive philosophy.
|
| What remains then, in my opinion, is a more pragmatic
| outlook. You need to believe in some arbitrary, "objective"
| axis upon which you can orient your life, be it career,
| knowledge, family, health, and so on. This gives your life
| purpose, for now. But none of these rational purposes are
| _truly_ unimpeachable - nothing is (see Godel). And so, over
| time, things will change - life happens. You simply re-orient
| when it does, without being seduced by the false allure of
| "objective" goals, nor falling into the postmodernism abyss
| of nihilism.
| andreilys wrote:
| As long as you don't postulate that your "objective" axis
| is the Ultimate Truth then we're in agreement.
|
| The problem is when people decide that X is the thing every
| human should optimize for. Even though pursuing X is often
| as meaningless as pursuing Y.
| swader999 wrote:
| Being just worthy of your peers is often enough if a higher
| purpose eludes.
| kwhitefoot wrote:
| Being worthy is a much higher goal than many.
|
| Reminds me of Pratchett's character Mr Nutt in Unseen
| Academicals.
| swader999 wrote:
| Pro tip, don't Google for this.
| alexpetralia wrote:
| Yes, a philosophy of "good enough" is one I very much
| subscribe to, since pure absolutism or pure relativism
| are inoperative in practice (though too much
| intellectualizing can often lead one to believe
| exclusively in just one).
| kissgyorgy wrote:
| Err, seem like the exact same thing just phrased realistically
| instead of romantically.
|
| Being a Software Developer IS really my dream job, I enjoy it
| almost all the time, but there are always parts which I hate. I
| don't think there are a lot of jobs if any, where you enjoy it
| 100% of the time.
|
| I think it's true for life in general that you should aim for
| 100% in everything but expect to never reach it. This way, you
| won't disappoint, but you still try everything to make it happen.
| kazen44 wrote:
| > I don't think there are a lot of jobs if any, where you enjoy
| it 100% of the time.
|
| even in life, enjoying it 100% of the time is an unrealistic
| expectation, in any aspect. school, relationships, work etc.
|
| people should be realistic about the "shitty parts" of life and
| decide what is acceptable for them. This is different for
| different people.
| dmerks wrote:
| I have been following my dreams for... perhaps the past 16 years,
| since late adolescence. It's always been a part of my makeup to
| chase after what seems most desirable while being somewhat risk
| averse. It's been a tumultuous ride. I've made plenty of
| mistakes, of poor decisions, I've tried many ways of living, I've
| been lucky and unlucky, I've learned a lot, I've suffered a lot,
| I've changed a lot. I've sacrificed health and relationships,
| spent resources aplenty... for mixed results. I can confidently
| say what make me happiest are my partner of eight years and my
| two daughters. I feel like I (we) built something nice to
| continue living carefully with passion.
|
| E.g. I decided about two years ago to transition from Education
| (I was a special ed teacher in the private sector), where I hoped
| to develop useful tech for learning, to the world of Tech with
| the same goal in mind. I have always had an affinity for
| programming-- I have fond memories of making games (e.g. snake),
| bots, harmless trojans, etc. with the mIRC scripting language--,
| and an interest in solving problems related to the contents of
| our minds. I completed a few contracts in web development related
| to Wordpress (html, css, js, php, mysql) to get myself going,
| before deciding to learn a stack that would enable me to find
| better work opportunities or develop a learning product. I
| settled on React/Apollo/Express/Prisma/Postgres and have been
| working part-time on a flashcard web app eversince. I'm inspired
| by the likes of Duolingo, Anki and Quizlet, though I have a
| special appreciation for Lichess, among others. I wish to make it
| easier to choose/manage/share what one knows. I would like to
| generate revenue with this enterprise, but I'm unsure whether I
| will succeed. If I don't, I wonder how difficult it would be to
| find work related to what I've learned.
| toto444 wrote:
| With time I have tend to realise that most of the time it can be
| a bad advice. I would personally people to develop a skill that
| makes them in demand on the job market and hence financially
| confortable so they can follow their dream in their free time
| (which can be a year without working).
|
| The freedom you have when you do something in your free time is
| underrated.
| agumonkey wrote:
| Dreams and motivation come and go. Most people and most things
| need stability.
| sfifs wrote:
| I think the importance is having a risk mitigation mechanism in
| place before you pursue your high risk dream. This often takes
| the form of some form of wealth or capital.
|
| My wife has a childhood friend and a cousin who were both very
| talented in Indian classical music in their youth and regarded
| as potential stars. The friend came from a well to do family,
| the cousin from a lower income family. The friend didn't really
| need to pursue a college degree in a professional field and
| take up job to make ends meet and instead could devote the
| entirety of higher education and focus to music because even if
| she doesn't succeed monetarily, the family still owned several
| properties and the rental income and capital appreciation could
| give enough of a passive income for survival together with say
| teaching.
|
| No such luck for the cousin who now does music as a hobby when
| he can.
| tartoran wrote:
| Id say to follow your dream is not a bad advice if you follow
| realistically and don't gamble everything on it. So I would
| append the word reaponsibly to this adage.
|
| The risk of suppressing that dream and compromising everything
| is realizing you have an unfulfilled life.
|
| So following your dream responsibly entails learning a skill
| that is lucrative but which opens the possibility to fulfill
| that dream.
| xattt wrote:
| So what you're saying is that a balanced approach is key?
| swader999 wrote:
| Reaching the highest level in many endeavors often takes an
| obsessive approach. So it depends what you are chasing.
| agustif wrote:
| Balanced obsession
| tartoran wrote:
| Ballanced approach does sound correct even though that may
| entail putting your dream on hold temporarily only to
| return to it with full force and enthusiasm or managing to
| incorporate part of it into your life and move that needle
| slowly while doing what's responsible at the same time, eg.
| taking care of important matters such as family and self
|
| The luckiest people are on their path to fulfill their
| dreams early on in their lives and all the work and effort
| is alligned with their vocation, all work and effort
| becoming much easier to attain.
| Ensorceled wrote:
| A LOT of people have dreams that are beyond their capabilities
| ... Rock Star, astronaut, brain surgeon, New York Times
| Bestselling Author, Casonova ...
|
| People need to follow their loves... Dream of being a Rock
| Star? Play at your local bar. Write _a_ novel.
| geeB wrote:
| I used to think like this, but I've come to realize it's highly
| dependent on what your dream is.
|
| For some things it's just not possible (or at least way harder
| than following your dreams in the first place)... the kind of
| things that require being part of something bigger and having a
| certain reputation and seniority among your peers. E.g. flying
| fighter jets or do underwater welding after a career in
| investment banking, or trying to enter a decade later an
| industry that was at its infancy in the first place.
|
| There are lots of dreams (probably the majority of them) for
| which I fully agree with you though.
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