[HN Gopher] Solved by 1440p HiDPI: MacBook Pro 16" is hot and no...
___________________________________________________________________
Solved by 1440p HiDPI: MacBook Pro 16" is hot and noisy with an
external monitor
Author : seam_carver
Score : 296 points
Date : 2021-05-22 02:08 UTC (20 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (axu2.medium.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (axu2.medium.com)
| ideamotor wrote:
| Wow. Hilarious. I was one of the original commenters on that
| thread and stopped following when I returned my - fully loaded -
| $$$$ - 16" MBP. I think I'll be glad I returned it because M1 is
| awesome, but god damn. Why can't Apple fix this? You figure they
| would get the idea when I return an ungodly expensive machine and
| tell them this is the reason. Christ.
| sicromoft wrote:
| > You figure they would get the idea when I return an ungodly
| expensive machine and tell them this is the reason.
|
| You would hope so, but behemoths like Apple just don't care and
| don't have to. I'm guessing it would take thousands of returns
| before it even made a blip on their radar.
| seam_carver wrote:
| Probably just very few people have 1440p monitors I guess.
| merb wrote:
| the problem is that NO monitor works. it's not a bug just
| with 1440p, once you connect an external monitor it jumps
| without closing the lid. I use two 1080p monitors, but a
| single one does not work, aswell, closing the lid fixes the
| problem
| jldugger wrote:
| > Why can't Apple fix this? You figure they would get the idea
| when I return an ungodly expensive machine and tell them this
| is the reason. Christ.
|
| Because they give all their devs 5k displays.
| ideamotor wrote:
| As a dev . . . Yep. Stop using a damn scaled down netbook for
| my desktop app! Oh wait, I'm part of the problem. Ahhh!
|
| Edit: well we have uh fewer employees ...
| seam_carver wrote:
| Were you using a 1440p monitor, out of curiosity?
| ideamotor wrote:
| Yes I was. And actually, now I'm using a 1600p ultrawide with
| the M1 and it's completely silent.
| seam_carver wrote:
| Wow, you got wrecked by a 1440p specific bug.
| imwally wrote:
| This is the reason I swapped my 16" for the M1 Air. The silence
| is bliss.
| distalx wrote:
| Hey!
|
| How were you able to return it? My MBP 16' gets really hot
| without an external monitor. And I'm getting nowhere with my
| complaints.
| ideamotor wrote:
| I returned it within the original return window.
| krono wrote:
| Haven't really persued a solution to these gpu/heat/noise
| issues yet.
|
| Though, a few months ago I had contacted Apple about a
| different matter and mentioned these problems to the agent
| who then told me that was the first time they and their
| colleagues had heard of this issue.
|
| Their tone and the very many words they used to convey this
| told a different story. Going to be an interesting case when
| I finally have time to get this sorted.
|
| Edit: Not saying it's company policy to deny this issue
| exists. It could just have been this agent not wanting to
| deal with it (maybe because it'd end up in a concession which
| would look bad on his profile?)
| rythie wrote:
| It might be a problem in the graphics driver, in which case AMD
| would need to solve it.
| deergomoo wrote:
| I followed the Macrumors thread for a good while and there
| was speculation that it might even have been a hardware flaw;
| something about needing to run the memory clock at full speed
| to prevent flickering when driving different resolution
| screens.
|
| Apparently there are some AMD desktop GPUs that exhibit
| similar behaviour, but obviously an extra 15-20W draw is far
| less of an issue in a desktop than a thin laptop.
|
| Either way, this machine is coming up on two years old. It's
| not gonna be fixed, ever. I already sold mine because of it.
| BadassFractal wrote:
| Looks like my 5500M GPU draws 10W fewer when I change my external
| 4K monitor from Scaled (to accommodate for every OS UI element
| being minuscule) to the display's native resolution. It makes the
| OS barely usable from a UI standpoint, but the fans are now a lot
| quieter. I'm on a Dell monitor.
|
| Is this by design?
| nicbou wrote:
| I just tested it on my 2017 rMBP (Radeon 555), and I saw an
| immediate drop from ~15W to 11W. The total power usage is
| around 30W, so it's an immediate ~15% drop in power usage.
| jiofih wrote:
| > this fix only works when the MacBook lid is closed
|
| Not really solved then. _Everyone_ I know that has a 16" has the
| same issue.
|
| Since the top of the line model is the one most chosen by
| professionals, very few will _not_ connect to an external
| monitor. Apple should be issuing refunds left and right after
| this fiasco.
| SloopJon wrote:
| I got a 16" MBP last year in order to WFH. I could not get it
| to work with an old 1920x1200 Dell monitor using DVI adapters.
| Months later I bought a 1440 monitor that works over HDMI and
| DisplayPort, but the display is fuzzy. I found some tweaks to
| improve it, but it's still noticeably worse than a hackintosh
| running High Sierra.
|
| I have felt like the performance isn't great, but I chalked it
| up to Docker and the Linux VM it uses. However, I also noticed
| that the computer was warm to the touch with fans running even
| when I hadn't used it for hours. I've taken to manually forcing
| it to sleep at the end of the day.
|
| I'm excited to try this HiDPI hack, because it may solve the
| power usage problem _and_ the fuzzy display. It would be a real
| shame to lose the built-in display if this only works in
| clamshell mode, but it just might be worth it.
|
| Edit: I just realized that I can't use Touch ID in clamshell
| mode. That makes this a harder call.
| cyberge99 wrote:
| Make sure you use a good hdmi cable. Upgrading my cable fixed
| both fuzziness and delayed refresh rate.
| seam_carver wrote:
| Thank you for your feedback. You aren't the only one who
| commented something like this, so I added a TLDR at the top of
| the article.
| neonate wrote:
| https://archive.md/wWsjs
| johnklos wrote:
| medium.com sucks. Please put anything that matters anywhere else
| that isn't trying to sell subscriptions.
| seam_carver wrote:
| Sorry, I just defaulted to using Medium, didn't realize that
| people would have trouble reading it! You can still open it
| using incognito mode to read it. Or use the non paywall link
| https://axu2.medium.com/solved-by-1440p-hidpi-macbook-pro-16...
| TacticalCoder wrote:
| I wish medium links were simply forbidden on HN.
| tandav wrote:
| From the article:
|
| "Note, these power draw settings only work if you keep the
| MacBook lid closed."
| superjan wrote:
| Yes, why would that be?
| MonaroVXR wrote:
| Because of heat dissipation. You can't go all out when you
| are blocking the heat.
|
| I am also not sure about the OP's statement. (I am not saying
| this person is wrong.)
| tandav wrote:
| My comment was just a clarification. Maybe this is just my
| experience but me and my coworkers using both external and
| macbook displays. After reading the title I thought it will
| fix heating without closing the lid
| wonnage wrote:
| It's amazing how many thermal/throttling issues have plagued
| macbooks over the past few years. IIRC there was a bug that would
| cause throttling if you tried to charge on the left side ports.
| Not sure if it was fully fixed by a patch.
|
| The M1s are a huge improvement but the bar was pretty low.
| p_l wrote:
| The bug is in hw, so no, it's not fixed. Specifically, it's
| caused by internal layout - the chips handling power,
| especially for the cases with beefier wattage and at higher
| power draw - also can get quite hot. However, apparently the
| ones on the left side are much closer to CPU/GPU area on the
| motherboard than the ones on the right side, and thus
| "contribute" more to temperature observed on CPU/GPU.
| cjbconnor wrote:
| This doesn't fix the issue, many people have had success with
| similar methods when running with the built-in display off.
| There's no getting around this with the built-in display active,
| or with any two non-matching resolution displays.
| seam_carver wrote:
| My specific issue was it was still hot and noisy even when the
| built in display was closed. I'm sure other people have 1440p
| monitors and would love this partial solution.
| smallstepforman wrote:
| MacBookPro's are dual GPU systens, a low power low performance
| Intel iris Pro and also a dedicated nVidia/AMD discrete GPU. The
| nVidia GPU kicks in when you run OpenGL/Metal apps or when you
| plug in an external monitor. My MBP is well behaved when I dont
| plug in an external monitor, and noisy/hot when I do. This is
| with both OSX and Linux. Funny enough, Haiku is silent on the
| same hardware (no 2nd screen though).
| seam_carver wrote:
| Well the MacBook is silent even when the dGPU is on if it's
| rendering at 1440p HiDPI for me. Hot and noisy at normal 1440p.
| MonaroVXR wrote:
| They did use NVIDIA GPU's but they don't.
|
| I am not sure about this part:
|
| >y MBP is well behaved when I dont plug in an external monitor,
| and noisy/hot when I do. This is with both OSX and Linux.
|
| Because it doesn't on my laptops and screen.
| AzN1337c0d3r wrote:
| Intel stopped offering Iris Pro after Skylake.
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Graphics_Technology#Skyl...
|
| The last Macbook Pro with Iris Pro graphics is the Mid-2015
| 15-inch Macbook Pro.
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MacBook_Pro#Technical_specific...
|
| The Mac in the article in particular is a 2019 16-inch model.
| wffurr wrote:
| It still has an Intel GPU: Intel UHD Graphics 630.
|
| Too bad it can't be used with external monitors. It's
| probably quite power efficient.
| alisonkisk wrote:
| Of course it is. The 13" MBPro and Intel Air work great
| with external monitor.
| cvak wrote:
| Problem is, pci-e lines connected to tb3 ports is physically
| connected just to amd dgpu in mbp16.
| vinay_ys wrote:
| I'm on a late 2019 MacBook Pro with an external monitor that has:
| B326HK: Resolution: 3840 x 2160 (2160p/4K UHD 1 -
| Ultra High Definition) UI Looks like: 1920 x 1080 @
| 30.00Hz
|
| In iStats, Radeon High Side shows 5.6-6W of power usage. But
| still, my CPU cannot sustain CPU frequency above 2Ghz for more
| than 5 minutes due to thermal throttling.
| seam_carver wrote:
| Why only 30 Hz? I hear 60 Hz solves a different class of
| issues.
| vinay_ys wrote:
| My mistake, thanks for pointing that out. I have an old 2013
| MBP (on which I'm typing this) which only does 30Hz. On 2019
| MBP with DP I am getting 60Hz but the problem remains.
| ezconnect wrote:
| Medium hijack the right click when you select a text. What a
| frustrating user experience.
| willtim wrote:
| Hmmm so much for "just works". Macos is becoming as buggy as the
| average Linux distro. They need to take a pause with adding
| features and clean it up.
| t8e56vd4ih wrote:
| teams works fine on windows and Linux but flickers heavily in
| my Mac.
|
| my Mac is asking me every login for my exchange creds despite
| having authenticated several times.
|
| my Mac is running hot and depleting battery without any
| discernable reason at random occasions.
|
| the esc key on my mbp 2019 itself is a bug in my opinion.
| mathstuf wrote:
| Hmm. I've not had _any_ success with Teams on Linux. Oddly,
| the behavior is also quite client-dependent:
| - Chromium: infinite login loop because why not -
| Flatpak: login works, but says my account isn't eligible for
| Teams (which blocks joining as even a guest?) -
| Firefox: doesn't even ask for a login and I can join, but no
| audio or video (either direction); chat works though
|
| Note that I only join existing meetings, never create any, so
| why I can get to the call without logging in on Firefox, but
| am blocked from even joining elsewhere is a real mystery to
| me.
| 411111111111111 wrote:
| > _teams works fine on windows and Linux_
|
| I have to disagree there. It's so frigging laggy that it
| feels unusable as a communication tool.
| foepys wrote:
| I have a very beefy laptop at work but with Teams I'm
| feeling like I'm using my old 133 MHz PC again. Everything
| takes so long to open that I'm growing increasingly mad
| when using it. Plus the statuses of my contacts are
| consistently wrong.
| vladvasiliu wrote:
| I'm not sure whether that's a Linux specific issue. I've
| used teams on an older MBP and also on newer PCs (8th gen
| i5) with Windows, and the lag is always there for some
| reason. I've found ticking "disable animations" helps _a
| little_.
| 74d-fe6-2c6 wrote:
| I use it only at work. It has many issues. Lagginess isn't
| one I noticed.
| eitland wrote:
| Teams is a case study in subtle and not so subtle bugs
| and ux issues:
|
| Just yesterday we spent time in a team meeting because
| someones Teams instance was malfunctioning.
|
| Sometimes restarting the application completely (be aware
| it idles in the systray) works, other times restarting
| the pc or disabling (or enabling) hardware acceleration
| will work. Other times it helps to move it to the built
| in monitor it seems.
|
| And sometimes, like yesterday, nothing including
|
| - all the above,
|
| - disabling incoming video
|
| - and reinstalling the application
|
| works.
|
| As for UX issues there's clicking on "join meeting" and
| continue working for a few minutes until you realize "ah,
| the first join meeting doesn't join the meeting, only
| opens the join meeting dialog".
|
| Another winner: when you click on the 7 more people icon
| to see who else are online and it does nothing.
|
| Or the fact that joining a started meeting is a multi
| step process (find calendar, find today, find the meeting
| click join and join).
|
| Yesterday I'm also sure I had an instance of sound
| getting through before I joined.
|
| Still, somethings works flawlessly for me: jumping
| seamlessly from one device to another during a meeting is
| fantastic.
|
| Sound is OK for me. Background switching is ok etc etc.
| psychometry wrote:
| Stop using crappy Microsoft products. It's not Apple's fault
| that MS is terrible at UX.
| ansgri wrote:
| Well, Teams has problems using my external USB mic on Linux
| Mint 19.3, when e.g. Zoom has no problems with it. Otherwise
| no significant bugs using Mint for last 5 years or so both on
| desktop and laptop.
| Dah00n wrote:
| In my opinion it's more buggy. The biggest difference is that
| many of those bugs are an active choice on Apple's part but I
| still see them as bugs. Especially because if people shout loud
| enough Apple changes the "feature" and says "this was a bug"
| but only if Twitter blows up enough. Otherwise it is a feature.
| fit2rule wrote:
| I recently had to go through the hell of setting up a Java
| development environment, plus Android emulation, on my new M1
| MacBook .. mid-way through, I was cursing myself that I wasn't
| just using a Linux machine .. but okay, eventually, SDKMAN came
| to the rescue. For a while there it really felt pretty
| regressive ..
| waheoo wrote:
| Mac os hasn't just worked for developers for a long time.
|
| They missed the entire container revolution with docker. I
| still come across Devs using Mac's that are afraid of docker
| because it's too confusing and black box. (It's Linux in there
| right?)
|
| At work we have a rather overengineered method of proxying to
| our production services for security reasons. Mac users are
| currently constantly having to deal with abstraction layers on
| top of abstraction layers to make things barely reliable. I
| just use a systemd unit file and haven't looked at it in years.
|
| Homebrew tool, while great for more obscure things, it should
| really only be a fallback, not the default. It's basically a
| confusing and black box version of the AUR.
|
| BSD/apple ways of doing things are just annoying. It's fine for
| the average user. But for Devs that want to do things in the
| same way they do them on their server it's just another hoop to
| jump through.
|
| The sad thing is that moving every Dev in the company over to
| Linux would probably be worthwhile long term, but I really
| don't think they have the willpower to relearn things even if
| they are that much better.
| toxik wrote:
| There is no half decent email application or calendar on
| Linux. That alone is a showstopper for many.
| andrewzah wrote:
| Does Thunderbird not count? That satisfies email +
| calendars for me on both Linux and Mac.
| merb wrote:
| no exchange. there is owl but I did not find it
| satisfying
| Joeri wrote:
| To be honest, outlook for mac isn't particularly great
| either. It is not much of a step up from outlook web
| access, which is what I ended up using on linux after
| trying all the mail clients. Evolution with the ews
| plugin came close, but required a ton of configuration
| and the tasks integration was never quite right.
| vladvasiliu wrote:
| > To be honest, outlook for mac isn't particularly great
| either.
|
| I've never used Outlook for Mac, but there's the Apple
| Mail.app on the mac which works great with Exchange. I'd
| choose it over Outlook on Windows every time.
| toxik wrote:
| Thunderbird is sadly not on par with the Mac
| alternatives. It has heaps of longstanding problems, and
| I didn't even know it had a calendar.
| andrewzah wrote:
| I can't say that I've had any issues with Thunderbird,
| other than reconfiguring hotkeys is a pain.
|
| There is a caldav addon that allows syncing with remote
| calendars. I use that to coordinate calendars on my
| computers and iphone.
| coldtea wrote:
| > _Mac os hasn 't just worked for developers for a long time_
|
| I dunno, I'm a developer (Python, Java, some JS, shell,
| Docker, Vagrant) and it has worked fine for me.
| qalmakka wrote:
| The BSD way of doing things is fine, see FreeBSD and how nice
| it is to use it (until you start X, at least).
|
| The issues are 100% due to Apple's lack of care for developer
| concerns.
| Valmar wrote:
| lmao, what a amazingly shitty hot take...
|
| Your "average" Linux distro isn't "buggy" as you claim.
|
| You sound like someone who either hasn't used Linux, or
| extrapolates their experiences from one specific distro, to all
| distros.
|
| I say this as someone who uses Linux daily. Specifically, Arch
| Linux, with testing repos enabled. The only bugs I run into are
| from using Git master versions of software that I'm interesting
| in testing.
| willtim wrote:
| I've used Linux since it was first available in the mid 90s.
| I use it at work and on machines at home. It is almost
| certainly more reliable than Windows and MacOS as a server.
| However, the context here is desktop UI and laptops.
|
| Linux does exceptionally well considering there is almost no
| money at all going into this use case. But there are many
| bugs, sometimes due to hardware (e.g ACPI inconsistencies,
| even Thinkpads have issues) and because of software churn
| (few fix bugs in their spare time, it's more fun to create
| something new).
|
| If you wish to pretend that everything is perfect and there
| are no problems, then you aren't helping Linux either.
| MonaroVXR wrote:
| > Linux does exceptionally well considering there is almost
| no money at all going into this use case. But there are
| many bugs, sometimes due to hardware (e.g ACPI
| inconsistencies, even Thinkpads have issues) and because of
| software churn (few fix bugs in their spare time, it's more
| fun to create something new).
|
| This is me figuring out my Optimus without Mux. My screen
| freezes when laptops (ASUS N76VB) resumes from sleep. (I
| don't know which state S1 - S4.)
|
| So I have "Fixed" the issue. But this was a problem of the
| HD Audio device driver? in the NVIDIA 740m?
|
| It was difficult to fix and I'm thinking about making a
| GitHub repository thing about it.
|
| I had this issue on Fedora, Ubuntu and Pop!_OS.
| Valmar wrote:
| > I've used Linux since it was first available in the mid
| 90s. I use it at work and on machines at home. It is almost
| certainly more reliable than Windows and MacOS as a server.
| However, the context here is desktop UI and laptops.
|
| Desktop UI is where Linux tends to shine. Laptops... oh,
| those are a royal mess, usually.
|
| > Linux does exceptionally well considering there is almost
| no money at all going into this use case.
|
| No money at all? There are countless developers being paid
| to work on the Linux kernel. And on other pieces of
| software in userspace ~ usually by Red Hat.
|
| > But there are many bugs, sometimes due to hardware (e.g
| ACPI inconsistencies, even Thinkpads have issues)
|
| Hardware-related bugs are always an unpleasant can of
| fun...
|
| > and because of software churn (few fix bugs in their
| spare time, it's more fun to create something new).
|
| Bugs caused by software churn are also a thing. I
| personally haven't noticed anything major from many
| packages in the main repos.
|
| > If you wish to pretend that everything is perfect and
| there are no problems, then you aren't helping Linux
| either.
|
| Oops, I could have worded things slightly better, as in
| "not as "buggy"' instead of 'not "buggy"'. I sometimes miss
| words, only to realize later.
| coldtea wrote:
| > _You sound like someone who either hasn 't used Linux, or
| extrapolates their experiences from one specific distro, to
| all distros._
|
| Ironically you've just described the biggest problem with
| Linux, and the biggest non-solution often proposed "Problem
| with distro Y? Just use distro X".
| jpxw wrote:
| One word: audio
| diragon wrote:
| One sentence: anything that might break.
|
| But I'm not saying this as blaming Linux about the
| brokedness. They're doing amazingly well for the huge
| amount of combinations of hardware and software they're
| supporting.
|
| Apple, on the other hand, has decided to seriously limit
| the amount of hardware they support, which makes it a much
| easier effort to support those ones.
| TheRealDunkirk wrote:
| Yeah, just put the interns on it next season. They'll just do
| the boring work the real programmers don't want to do.
| <eyeroll>
|
| Whenever a solid Apple bash comes up on HN, people just throw
| statements around to the effect of "Apple -- as an entire
| software and hardware conglomerate -- just doesn't 'care' any
| more," and that nothing in the entire freaking stack should
| ever exhibit a bug. It's almost like NO ONE around here
| actually works in SOFTWARE or HARDWARE. I guess no one else
| here has ever shipped an uncaught bug. I sure have.
|
| From my experience, the number of the kinds of issues being
| discussed here is EXCEEDINGLY low for the number of moving
| parts involved. I know, I know. Someone's going to say that
| since they do the whole stack themselves, they should NEVER
| ship a bug. Well, good luck with that. I'll believe it's
| humanly possible when I see it.
|
| And don't even start with how Linux or Windows is any better.
| I've been at this for 30 years. I know better.
| vbezhenar wrote:
| I installed Fedora Linux recently and used it for a few days. I
| did not spot a single bug, despite using it in a quite heavy
| scenario (Docker, Android Emulator, IDE, big file transfers).
| For example Windows had issues with sound drivers and GPU
| drivers, Linux is rock stable.
|
| Also it was as easy as macOS install: I just installed it in a
| 5 minutes and it was ready to work. With Windows I had to spent
| hours to install all the drivers from the manufacturer website
| (I tried to let Windows to install their own drivers, but it
| did not find all the necessary drivers).
|
| I have few issues with some Linux UI choices, for example I
| don't like Gnome 3 UI. But that's not a bug.
| MonaroVXR wrote:
| Did you use Docker or Podman? because Podman is the thing
| available on Fedora and isn't even in the repositories.
| vbezhenar wrote:
| I used docker, that's what I used before. I'm aware of
| podman, but did not try to use it. But thanks for
| suggestion, I'll look into it.
|
| PS I just tried to use it. I've got some permission denied
| errors from containers which were not present with docker.
| I guess podman is not ready as a complete replacement of
| docker for me.
| curt15 wrote:
| Isn't docker a symlink to podman on Fedora these days?
| MonaroVXR wrote:
| There's a command that uses podman command to use docker.
| But I can't find it right now.
| broknbottle wrote:
| sudo dnf install -y podman-docker cat
| /usr/bin/docker #!/bin/sh [ -f
| /etc/containers/nodocker ] || \ echo "Emulate
| Docker CLI using podman. Create /etc/containers/nodocker
| to quiet msg." >&2 exec /usr/bin/podman "$@"
| vbezhenar wrote:
| I installed docker from the docker repository, it's
| definitely not a symlink to podman on my system right
| now. I did not check whether that symlink existed before
| docker installation, but I doubt about that.
| MonaroVXR wrote:
| It wasn't a suggestion, because it doesn't have all the
| features that many people utilized in the Docker
| ecosystem. Like Docker-compose. (Right now on 22 May
| 2021.)
|
| it's not ready for replacement.
| vbezhenar wrote:
| There's podman-compose which seems to almost work for me,
| but not completely, yep.
|
| If I would write containers myself from the scratch, I'd
| definitely try to ensure that podman works. But I'm using
| containers from other people, so I have to live with that
| for now.
| broknbottle wrote:
| echo "user.max_user_namespaces=28633" | sudo tee -a
| /etc/sysctl.d/98-userns.conf sudo sysctl --system
| sudo usermod -v 10000-65536 -w 10000-65536 $(id -un)
| podman system migrate podman unshare cat
| /proc/self/uid_map podman info
| samuell wrote:
| I have solved the last "bug" by using xubuntu, which has an
| astonishingly stable, coherent and well integrated xfce
| desktop experience. There something similar for Fedora
| perhaps?
| techrat wrote:
| xUbuntu really is one of the better polished distros. When
| I had a spare laptop, I tried some distrohopping on it.
| Little quirks existed in most distros but it just felt like
| xUbuntu was the most (for the lack of better words) sane
| overall. Everything I'd change in XFCE on another distro
| was essentially what xUbuntu had configured by default.
|
| The only thing I've had to do after installation, aside
| from installing my apps from repos, is to add the Mainline
| PPA and update the kernel to newest just to take advantage
| of newer kernel drivers for some of my hardware. Other than
| that, everything is there and everything works.
| willtim wrote:
| That's really good to hear. Perhaps I need to stop using
| fringe distros like NixOS.
| vereis wrote:
| This works until something does go wrong. At least with
| NixOS you can simply roll back!
| vbezhenar wrote:
| Fedora uses btrfs by default. I don't think that
| snapshots are enabled by default, but quick googling
| reveals some instructions which should enable snapshots
| for updates. I guess that might help to achieve similar
| behaviour.
| willtim wrote:
| I don't think btrfs is a shining example of Linux
| stability/reliability. NixOS gives me rollbacks using XFS
| for root.
| KozmoNau7 wrote:
| This is one of the reasons why I use openSUSE, it has
| automatic btrfs snapshots that let you roll back in case
| anything breaks. Tumbleweed is already one of the most
| stable rolling-release distros, and I haven't had
| anything break yet, but it's nice to have regular
| snapshots as an an extra layer of safety.
| jorgBaller wrote:
| Off topic but why do people still write on medium and share on
| HN? Its paywalled and most people will not be able to read the
| post
| gnicholas wrote:
| The author can choose to have articles in front of the paywall.
| I believe it defaults to behind the paywall, and if you want
| the Medium aggregators to be able to share your piece, it has
| to be behind the paywall.
|
| Basically the tradeoff is to have better circulation among
| subscribers or non-subscribers. I always choose the latter.
| seam_carver wrote:
| You can just open the link in incognito mode! Also, sorry, I
| guess I should have posted the friend link instead that doesn't
| ask to subscribe, but I can't change it after posting! But
| here's the non paywall link: https://axu2.medium.com/solved-
| by-1440p-hidpi-macbook-pro-16...
| [deleted]
| toast0 wrote:
| It's not good, but it's not bad, it's kind of medium?
| ddingus wrote:
| True(ly) funny.
| seam_carver wrote:
| If you can't open the link, use incognito mode! Or click the non
| paywall link: https://axu2.medium.com/solved-by-1440p-hidpi-
| macbook-pro-16...
|
| This issue has been plaguing me for ages and I only just now
| figured out the solution!
| stunpix wrote:
| Since as I'm only occasionally reading the Medium I just
| disabled cookies for the entire Medium domain and no longer get
| bothered with either paywall or switching to incognito.
| njitbew wrote:
| After upgrading my MacBook Pro 13" (2017) to Big Sur in Dec 2020
| I had a similar experience. I use a 4k monitor and everything got
| super slow, fans started spinning, processes got throttled, and I
| could barely get any work done. I later did a fresh install of
| Catalina and everything was fast again.
|
| I never did proper benchmarking, but my feeling was that
| resolution played a role. When using 1080p things were fast, but
| the resolution is unusable on a 27" 4k display. When using 2160p
| things were fast, but too small for my eyes. Any resolution in
| between (this implies things are being scaled?) was sluggish.
|
| Note that this is a 13" model, so the problem does not seem to be
| restricted to the 16" model that the author is talking about.
| tomduncalf wrote:
| This matches my feeling that it's a post-Big Sur upgrade issue,
| which makes me hope it can be fixed.
|
| Has anyone spoken to Apple Support regarding this?
| MrRiddle wrote:
| This is not a solution at all. Post says this only works with lid
| closed, but most MPB16's will achieve reduction from 20W to 8-9W
| just by closing the lid, with no settings changes needed.
|
| That being said, 8-9W with closed lid is still high. Consumption
| for second monitor when it's idle shouldn't be more than 1W.
|
| After seeing the title I got my hopes up, that it will work
| within 1-2W range for idle regardless of lid being closed. That
| would be a solution, 8-9W definitely is not.
| seam_carver wrote:
| Added a note that I was drawing 20W even when lid was closed.
| Thanks for feedback.
| dafman wrote:
| I agree, this doesn't seem like much of a solution. Due to the
| incredible amount of noise my 2019 16" MBP makes when I have it
| open and a 4K monitor attached, I have to always use it in
| clamshell mode, which makes almost no noise at all unless I'm
| watching a video or doing certain things in VS Code.
|
| I too looked at the title and thought someone had finally
| figured out how to get around having the laptop open and a
| monitor plugged in with no noise, but it seems like this
| basically makes no difference at all since it only works when
| the lid is shut. I've resigned myself to the fact that it'll
| never be solved, and hope to get this MBP replaced at some
| point
| MrRiddle wrote:
| Pretty much the same with me. I checked that macrumors thread
| weekly if not daily at one point, but after 100 pages you
| lose all hope.
|
| Will switch to Apple Silicon version of 16 when it comes out,
| but boy does that leave bad taste in mouth.
| alisonkisk wrote:
| > Will switch to Apple Silicon version of 16 when it comes
| out
|
| After buying Mac during a 4 year run of devices with
| unfixably broken keyboards and GPUs, that will not teach
| apple to focus on quality or repairability.
| MonaroVXR wrote:
| >This is not a solution at all. Post says this only works with
| lid closed, but most MPB16's will achieve reduction from 20W to
| 8-9W just by closing the lid, with no settings changes needed.
|
| Of course, because you can dissipate enough heat with the lid
| closed.
|
| >That being said, 8-9W with closed lid is still high.
| Consumption for second monitor when it's idle shouldn't be more
| than 1W.
|
| I am not about that, because laptop displays draw more power
| than 1W most of the time. (I'm aware of those low power
| displays that Lenovo utilizes.)
|
| And there are a couple of factors that I've forgotten.
| alisonkisk wrote:
| These power numbers are for the discrete GPU, not for the
| displays.
| hesdeadjim wrote:
| These machines are a complete joke for anyone doing "Pro" work.
| Endless thermal throttling driving CPU frequencies down to
| 2.4Ghz, low GPU performance, it's utter bullshit.
|
| I've spent $5k on maxed out machines for my engineers, and it's
| been a complete mess. Half of them have had to switch to a
| Windows machine as their primary so they can work without staring
| at a compiler spinning its wheels.
|
| Maybe an Mx Pro will live up to the legacy of the 2012 era, but
| Apple's obsession with thinness and mediocre cooling doesn't give
| me much hope for pro users.
| sdfsadfjaslj wrote:
| Absolutely this. I have a 16'' mbp and it constantly throttles,
| even when I manually set the fans to full blast and use a
| cooling pad. There's no way to sustain the 45 watt tdp for more
| than a few seconds.
|
| Anecdotally, my outdated i5 quad core is much snappier than the
| mbp i7 8 core because it can go all out at 69 watts/max boost
| for hours and not throttle for a second.
| vaughan wrote:
| Disable turbo boost. Throttling is not directly linked to any
| temperature sensor, and turbo boost almost instantly causes
| throttling, which then takes some time to return to normal
| because of a back-off algorithm.
| Koshkin wrote:
| > _switch to a Windows_
|
| Why not Linux?
| foepys wrote:
| WSL2 is nearly Linux. File IO is a bit slow compared to
| native Linux and if you want to call a Windows application
| running on localhost from within WSL2 it's a bit tricky but
| otherwise it works very well.
| yepthatsreality wrote:
| I spent years developing in WSL and while it's decent, it's
| still not fool proof. Recently I've made the switch to pure
| Linux work stations and I have the opposite to offer:
|
| I'd rather config WINE to run a Windows app then configure
| and play with WSL. It's a great tactic but Linux DE's are
| so polished these days I think WSL is a poor choice.
| 3PS wrote:
| WSL2 is quite a bit better than WSL1 imo, speaking as
| someone who has used both a fair bit. Especially now that
| GPU, GUI, and audio support are available on Insiders.
| Some tasks still don't work very well, like connecting to
| external devices or anything that needs systemd (like
| installing snaps), but by and large I've found it harder
| and harder to justify dual booting Linux with WSL2
| available.
| yepthatsreality wrote:
| I thought dual booting would be a pain but what actually
| happened is that migrating was mostly pain free these
| days and I haven't booted the Windows install for any
| reason.
| foepys wrote:
| As soon as Visual Studio can run on Linux I will gladly
| switch but currently my backend tooling is Windows only
| and WSL2 is godsent to connect .NET with cloud tooling.
|
| WSL1 was not well designed. If you only worked with WSL1,
| you would be surprised how well WSL matured.
| yepthatsreality wrote:
| I've worked with both.
| [deleted]
| zitterbewegung wrote:
| Why did you choose Macs initially? Did you have a need for iOS
| development?
| vaughan wrote:
| Tip: Run `sudo watch -d -t -n1 thermal levels`.
|
| Throttling occurs when these values go over 100. Throttling is
| not directly linked to temperature. There is some kind back-off
| algorithm that means that even if you trip this thermal
| throttling threshold, it will take some time before throttling
| is disabled. Even if you CPU returns to a normal temperature.
|
| Also, disable turbo boost.
| swyx wrote:
| "You've read all your free member-only stories. Become a member
| to get unlimited access and support the voices you want to hear
| more from."
|
| Can we ban medium posts on HN already? imagine if we login-walled
| every piece on HN. we should not encourage this behavior and we
| have the clout to send Medium a message.
| sharjeelsayed wrote:
| Use this https://github.com/iamadamdev/bypass-paywalls-chrome
| adhi001 wrote:
| Check this out - https://github.com/manojVivek/medium-unlimited
| Retr0spectrum wrote:
| > we have the clout to send Medium a message.
|
| I'm not sure we do. Medium is comparatively a much bigger and
| more mainstream platform than HN.
| villgax wrote:
| Opening in private mode should fix it
| itsdsmurrell wrote:
| If the fix is so simple (I do this all the time btw), why
| waste people's time?
| sichtlinkair wrote:
| Because there's enough people who don't understand it that
| it's worth trying?
| [deleted]
| itsdsmurrell wrote:
| Medium is the worst.
| cactus2093 wrote:
| Why medium specifically? You'd have to ban just about every
| news and media outlet.
| jiofih wrote:
| Yes, please. I've been asking for this for years but mods
| usually flag my comments.
|
| Links should only be allowed to the public internet.
| pluc wrote:
| Seriously does nobody think of moderation? I moderate a
| large sub on reddit and there are local news outlets that
| allow 4 articles a month and then you have to use trickery
| to get around the paywall to read the article. As a
| moderator I need to ensure the articles are related and
| comply with the rules - you know what I do when I reach the
| 5th article? For the rest of the month that site gets no
| posts on our sub.
| pavel_lishin wrote:
| As another moderator, that doesn't seem like a great
| approach; you're effectively punishing the readers of
| your sub for someone else's decision, somewhat
| arbitrarily. Your subscribers may not have hit that
| 4-article limit.
| leshenka wrote:
| Good for them. Now what about rest of us?
| swyx wrote:
| news/media livelihoods depend on that paywall, i'm fine with
| that.
|
| medium literally exists to just put a wall between you and
| the authors content. nobody's making real money blogging on
| medium. and HN is an audience of developers, for whom
| standing up their own blog is trivial.
|
| ironically dev.to is shadowbanned on HN (understandable
| because lots of blogpspam), when medium is the one that gives
| readers a terrible reading experience.
| throwaway98797 wrote:
| i'll take terrible reading experience over poor content any
| day.
| coldtea wrote:
| Why pick one? With Medium you can enjoy both!
| LeftTriangle wrote:
| Good, we should ban other paywall spam sites like NYT as
| well.
| MindTooth wrote:
| https://archive.is/wWsjs
| hiichbindermax wrote:
| Delete your cookies for medium. Then you should be able to read
| it. Or don't allow cookies for medium in the first place.
| znpy wrote:
| > Can we ban medium posts on HN already?
|
| I've been asking this for years.
| mtmail wrote:
| From the HN FAQ.
|
| "It's ok to post stories from sites with paywalls that have
| workarounds. In comments, it's ok to ask how to read an article
| and to help other users do so. But please don't post complaints
| about paywalls. Those are off topic. More here."
| FriedrichN wrote:
| Something I recommend to all is to install uMatrix and only
| allow first party CSS and images by default and only increase
| permissions if necessary.
|
| Because I block all cookies by default, I never run into this
| problem.
| unicornporn wrote:
| uMatrix has been discontinued. The repository has been
| archived.
|
| It was great but it was also a dread, even after training it.
| If you visit mostly the same sites I guess it's fine.
| PudgePacket wrote:
| > uMatrix has been discontinued. The repository has been
| archived.
|
| It still works.
| kencausey wrote:
| Yes, maybe I'm wrong, but it seems like it should
| continue to work just fine until there is some
| significant change in how HTTP works.
| sp332 wrote:
| The article also has a link at the bottom to send the author
| money if you found the article helpful. If I paid money upfront
| to see the article, I'm going to be much less likely to send
| more money afterward.
| seam_carver wrote:
| Sorry, removed paywall. Didn't realize it was default.
| seam_carver wrote:
| Turned off paywall, sorry! Didn't realize that it was the
| default!
| [deleted]
| Abishek_Muthian wrote:
| More logical solution would be for Medium, Financial times etc.
| disable their paywall when the source is HN, Reddit etc. like
| they do for Social Media.
|
| Perhaps there's a need gap for 3rd party service which can work
| out a deal between news websites and submission forums.
| smoldesu wrote:
| I just don't click on Medium posts, but I wholeheartedly agree.
| Medium (as well as Substack, for that matter) is one of the
| largest SAAS failures in the past decade IMO.
| seam_carver wrote:
| I was kind of hoping people would be commenting "Wow this fixed
| my issue" but I guess very few people have 2560x1440p60
| monitors...
| dawnerd wrote:
| Apple is just awful with external displays in general. I've yet
| to find a monitor/Mac combo that doesn't have issues.
|
| They really need to put some focus into it because Windows really
| makes macOS look bad in this regard.
| spacedcowboy wrote:
| Like what ?
|
| For the past year I've been WFH with the MBP (which has a 5500M
| gpu) driving its own panel (3072x1920), an external "wide" ~4K~
| "Big-ass" (3440 x 1440) and an external "4:3" 4k (3840x2160)
|
| No problems here.
|
| [edit: display info]
|
| tanelorn ~ % system_profiler SPDisplaysDataType | grep -C1
| Resolution Display Type: Built-In
| Retina LCD Resolution: 3072 x 1920 Retina
| Framebuffer Depth: 24-Bit Color (ARGB8888)
|
| --
|
| -- V3L6W: Resolution:
| 3440 x 1440 (UWQHD - Ultra-Wide Quad HD) UI
| Looks like: 3440 x 1440 @ 60 Hz
|
| --
|
| -- PN-K321:
| Resolution: 3840 x 2160 (2160p/4K UHD 1 - Ultra High
| Definition) UI Looks like: 3840 x 2160 @ 30
| Hz
| dawnerd wrote:
| You've gotten really lucky but responses like that make it
| harder for those with problems to get them addressed.
|
| Some of the issues include: screens refusing to turn on,
| random screen shutdowns (then turns back on), incorrect
| refresh rate on wake from sleep, incorrect resolution on wake
| from sleep, monitor position gets reset again on wake, screen
| image offset on monitor, once detected resolutions and
| capabilities not detected after restart (hdr, 4k, brightness
| control), refusing to pass audio through, clamshell mode will
| keep internal display active...
|
| I'm not alone (and this isn't limited to M1)
|
| https://youtu.be/8xwSzFe8CQg
|
| https://youtu.be/OifE32e8Tq8
| MonaroVXR wrote:
| This seems like a EDID issue, I am talking about:
|
| "screens refusing to turn on, random screen shutdowns (then
| turns back on), incorrect refresh rate on wake from sleep,
| incorrect resolution on wake from sleep, monitor position
| gets reset again on wake, screen image offset on monitor,
| once detected resolutions and capabilities not detected
| after restart (hdr, 4k, brightness control)"
|
| And this can be the display itself that's causing the
| issue.
|
| An example that i've found:
|
| ```If you suspect that you are affected by this issue, see
| if you find a reference to YCbCr in the menu of the monitor
| settings. For the Dell, it was in > Menu > Color > Input
| Color Format``` Dell (P2720DC)
| tonyedgecombe wrote:
| >And this can be the display itself that's causing the
| issue.
|
| The funny thing is running Windows on my Mac mini via
| bootcamp shows none of these problems.
| MonaroVXR wrote:
| This is not what I meant to say. It's difficult for me.
|
| And it's what I expected. MacOS or the Display
| manufacturers treat each other differently in terms of
| information shared between the display and device itself.
|
| I'm talking about EDID.
|
| https://gist.github.com/ejdyksen/8302862
|
| Not every display, I mean device is built the same. Even
| if it's the same manufacturer or same device.
| tonyedgecombe wrote:
| >screen image offset on monitor
|
| That is so annoying on my machine, a band an inch wide is
| offset by an eight of an inch when it comes out of sleep
| one time in five. The only solution is a reboot.
|
| I've had all the other problems as well, on both Intel and
| M1.
| clappski wrote:
| 3440 x 1440 isn't 4k, it's an ultrawide 1440p monitor
| spacedcowboy wrote:
| Fairy nuff. Substitute "Big-ass" for "4k".
| GordonS wrote:
| My MBP (2015/2016, I think) even sometimes hard crashes when
| plugging in my dual monitor setup (daisy-chained DisplayPort).
| It feels reminiscent of Windows BSODs from circa 2000 :(
| _coveredInBees wrote:
| This is an infuriating bug that impacts my 16" MBP. Everytime
| I plug into a thunderbolt dock I have a 50-50 chance of a
| hard reboot due to Kernel panic. There have been threads
| about this issue for a couple of years now and nothing has
| improved.
|
| I originally came to the MBP from the world of windows and
| being very jaded by BIOS and sleep issues with my Dell XPS
| 15. Macs just work they said. Well, jokes been on me. I
| literally have to constantly mute myself during video calls
| because my $3500 MBP fans are always whirring away so loudly
| that it ends up fucking up the audio for others during a
| call. I've had my entire system throttle and grind to a halt
| during video calls because of thermal throttling when
| temperatures got higher during this summer.
|
| I'm so over Apple and their laptops. My wife's MBP has a
| swollen battery that's destroyed the touchbar and touchpad.
| For all my complaints with Dell, it was nothing in comparison
| to the pain of owning my MBP. Multimonitor support is a joke.
| Docks are a joke. Opening apps is a fucking joke due to their
| sandbox slowing things down to the point that opening any app
| takes 5-10 seconds.
|
| At this point all I do is use my $3500 MBP as a VNC client to
| my Linux desktop where I get all my real work done. This is
| the first and last Mac I will personally own. I can see why
| they were as popular as they were with the developer crowd.
| But Apple has lost its way and doesn't give a shit, at least
| not when it comes to the developer / professional users that
| they originally targeted with their MBP line.
|
| I'll be going back to Windows/Linux soon and there is very
| little I will miss when I make the switch.
| seam_carver wrote:
| Random thought, when I used the official Apple HDMI
| adapter, I had no issues. When I used a third party USB-C-
| DP cable, I had random crashes, especially when turning on
| or waking from sleep.
| nathanwh wrote:
| I get this as well with my 16" MBP at work, my previous work
| 13" and my personal 13" work fine. So it's definitely the
| computer and not the setup
| Terretta wrote:
| It might be awful, but when I use high end PPI, pro color
| spaces, and move between workspaces with different equipment,
| sure seems less worse than everything else.
| nvr219 wrote:
| Seriously. Even with one external monitor I get things like
| windows "disappearing" into some in-between land, wallpaper
| getting messed up... It's shocking.
| seam_carver wrote:
| On a related topic, people seem to not like me using Medium. What
| platforms do you recommend?
| tjpnz wrote:
| I would recommend self hosting (as in renting a cheap VM
| somewhere) or leveraging Github pages. You don't need a
| platform for this kind of content.
| cdogl wrote:
| Counterpoint: you don't need to go through the setup and
| management hassle of self hosting for this kind of content.
| tverbeure wrote:
| I simply use <blogname>.github.io with Markdown and some
| default Jekyll template. It's not fancy, but it works.
| bpodgursky wrote:
| Don't listen to them.
|
| The biggest obstacle to blogging is vacillating endlessly about
| the perfect place to post it. Post wherever it's easiest.
|
| (none of the people who reply to this comment will actually
| blog regularly; they just like to give advice)
| adrianN wrote:
| The biggest obstacle to blogging is not writing content.
| Compared to the effort of writing a good blogpost, switching
| hosts is fairly trivial.
| LegitShady wrote:
| The hardest part of blogging is having something interesting
| or valuable to say.
|
| I assume everything on Medium is professionally stupid, based
| on what I've read there so far.
| dwaite wrote:
| There's also the issue that Medium wanted me to log in to
| read his post (I simply flushed cookies instead).
| TaylorAlexander wrote:
| I'm still back on V1.0 but I've been happy with ghost.
|
| https://ghost.org/
| gpm wrote:
| Github.io is a surprisingly good option. Gitlab.io if you like
| gitlab better.
|
| Substack seems pretty popular and not terrible.
|
| Edit: Apparently a bad idea: Dev.to seems to be fairly decent,
| and maybe more like medium.
|
| Hosting your own static site via netlify (or similar services)
| is only the cost of a domain name.
|
| Hosting your own vps-based site on gcp is also only the price
| of a domain name, and if you put the also free cloudflare in
| front of it, it scales well, but this route does mean a lot
| more maintenance than any of the options above.
| yarcob wrote:
| If you host a static blog I don't think you don't need
| cloudflare.
| viraptor wrote:
| If your data is metered, is a good idea for peace of mind.
| Otherwise you risk someone dosing you and getting a large
| bill. That applies to both static or dynamic content.
| yarcob wrote:
| Could you explain how that would work? I thought DOS
| generally worked by overloading a host with mostly
| invalid incoming packets.
|
| Are DOS attacks that cause lots of outgoing bandwidth
| common? And wouldn't launching such a DOS attack be
| somewhat expensive in the first place?
|
| Also, I don't think any of the hosting companies I use
| have metered bandwidth. I assume that if I used excessive
| bandwidth I'd just end up saturating the network, but for
| a blog with mostly text and a few images that shouldn't
| be an issue.
| alias_neo wrote:
| DoS is often misunderstood.
|
| It's perfectly normal for legitimate traffic to
| accidently DDoS you if you have low specs (or a huge
| unwieldy site) and get a link somewhere popular like HN.
|
| I run a blog on a small cloud VM. If it made front page
| of HN all those visitors would DDoS my site "by accident"
| in no time.
|
| Don't forget, accessing a website the normal way is
| outbound bandwidth.
|
| Incidentally, I like to use my blog to explain topics
| that aren't widely understood outside of tech people or
| domain specific experience.
|
| Maybe I should be a bit more active and explain things
| like this?
| viraptor wrote:
| > I thought DOS generally worked by overloading a host
| with mostly invalid incoming packets.
|
| It's any traffic. It can be invalid packets if that's
| effective, but it can also be complete http requests.
|
| > Are DOS attacks that cause lots of outgoing bandwidth
| common?
|
| They're commonly about saturating the incoming bandwidth.
| But there's nothing wrong with more outgoing traffic if
| someone wants to hit you that way.
|
| > And wouldn't launching such a DOS attack be somewhat
| expensive in the first place?
|
| Not if you're using other people's hacked endpoints.
| (Which is pretty much the default these days)
|
| If you use a service with just a data cap, that's fine. I
| commented with AWS / GCP / others in mind.
| detaro wrote:
| As example: The comment above explicitly mentioned using
| GCP. GCPs "free" tier includes a whopping 1 GB of free
| traffic each month, everything over that is individually
| billed. (Arguably the correct answer is "don't use cloud
| hosts for such things, their bandwidth is stupidly
| overpriced for this use case", not "use a CDN to mitigate
| that")
| gpm wrote:
| Gcp bandwidth is only free up to 1gb. The site I host on
| there would easily exceed that with without cloud flare in
| front.
|
| Besides, it lowers latency for users by being a real cdn
| with a lot of points of presence, and therefore improves
| the experience.
| jffry wrote:
| Cloudflare Pages [1] is relatively new, but I recently had
| a pleasant experience using it for a small static site
| recently
|
| [1] https://pages.cloudflare.com/
| eyelidlessness wrote:
| Dev.to is banned by HN so that's limiting.
| arvinsim wrote:
| This is definitely news to me. Why?
| detaro wrote:
| I'd guess due to too many low quality or spammy
| submissions from there.
| kjakm wrote:
| Have a scan through the homepage. I often find the same
| few people posting broad questions over and over again to
| generate engagement. On top of that I feel most of the
| article titles tend to be click bait. I have come across
| one or two really good articles but they are very much
| the exception.
| pier25 wrote:
| I asked this same question last week:
|
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27108910
| eyelidlessness wrote:
| The other answer is apparently the reason. It's a shame,
| too, because it flags people as self-promoting even if
| they're posting interesting articles that have no self
| promotion at all.
| ghufran_syed wrote:
| I personally like posthaven, if you don't mind paying $5 /
| month and you want it to stay up "forever" :) Otherwise github
| pages is probably the way to go
| Fordec wrote:
| Medium used to be fine but then they paywalled everything and
| it's basically now the Pinterest of blogging.
| seam_carver wrote:
| TLDR: My Macbook Pro is hot and noisy when connected to a
| 2560x1440p60 monitor, even when the lid is closed at idle. This
| article outlines a partial solution that enables silent operation
| at idle when the lid is closed.
|
| Sorry, didn't realize paywall was default option:
| https://axu2.medium.com/solved-by-1440p-hidpi-macbook-pro-16...
| orangegreen wrote:
| Had the same issue on my 16" before I spilled coffee all over it
| and broke it.
|
| A lot of the time kernal_task would take up like 400% CPU, which
| was because plugging the power cable into certain thunderbolt
| ports (on the left side) would overheat the computer.
|
| Even then I was consistently getting low performance, my fans
| were on all the time, and my computer was burning hot trying to
| power a 4k monitor and a 1080p monitor.
|
| After my 16" broke I got an M1 Mac Mini and obviously have not
| been having the same issues. Now my computer feels fast again. My
| old set up felt like I was using a Macbook Air or something.
| mdoms wrote:
| There are lots of reasons I absolutely despise my 16" MacBook Pro
| and the heat while plugged into an external monitor is definitely
| in the top 30 or so. Really don't understand why people are
| buying these garbage computers.
| waterlaw wrote:
| No happy with macOS or macbooks in general.
|
| The amount of defects and other miscellaneous issues I've
| encountered, along with numerous productivity losses moving
| from Windows and Linux. Makes no sense. My computer needs to
| function as a productivity machine. I don't have time for it.
|
| Next laptop(s) are going to be ThinkPads. Because I can buy two
| for the price of a macbook. We program for Linux servers
| anyway.
| aashay123 wrote:
| I have two 1440p monitors with MBP 16". Using hidpi fixed the
| high wattage issue when I connect one monitor. But when I connect
| two 1440p monitors, I still see GPU wattage at around 20W. Any
| idea what could fix this?
|
| Note: Mac lid is closed during all of the testing and usage I am
| doing.
| MonaroVXR wrote:
| Difficult to find out and it's difficult to compare an AMD GPU
| with an Intel or NVIDIA one at this point.
|
| Because they do things differently and the laptop that using is
| doing things differently too. And... about those other laptops,
| they do things differently too. (ASUS Zephyrus vs a Legion 7
| differs a lot.)
| STRML wrote:
| If you have two monitors, this doesn't make much difference. I'm
| at 19W with HiDPI off and 20.2W with it on, with 2x 2560x1440
| Dell U2515HXs.
| seam_carver wrote:
| That's unfortunate, but does 1 monitor/lid closing make a
| difference?
| db48x wrote:
| Apple's lack of QA seems to be getting worse.
| seam_carver wrote:
| Or they are just doing this intentionally to make M2 look good
| 0.0
| arcticbull wrote:
| Nah. Just an oversight. No excuse though.
| seam_carver wrote:
| Yea, was just a joke.
| db48x wrote:
| You joke, but it wouldn't actually be the first time
| Apple has done something like that:
| https://www.theverge.com/2020/11/18/21573710/apple-
| battery-g...
| alisonkisk wrote:
| That's not an accurate description at all.
| varenc wrote:
| You can check your resolution and HiDPI status by running this:
| system_profiler SPDisplaysDataType | grep -C1 Resolution
|
| For example, with my 4k monitor running at 3008x1692 with HiDPI
| ("retina") enabled, I get this: DELL P2715Q:
| Resolution: 6016 x 3384 UI Looks like: 3008 x 1692 @ 60
| Hz
|
| Even with those settings my 16" MBP's idle GPU power usage is
| only ~8-9W. It makes no sense that enabling HiDPI on a 1440p
| monitor results in better performance, so this definitely sounds
| like a bug.
|
| I recommend displayplacer [0] for changing and automating macOS
| display settings. It lets you set all sorts of configs not
| available in the GUI. Should be easy to have displayplacer enable
| HiDPI on a 1440p monitor. And it doesn't make persistent system
| changes or require disabling SIP (i think?) like that script
| referenced in the article.
|
| [0] https://github.com/jakehilborn/displayplacer
| jakehilborn wrote:
| Thanks for the shoutout on displayplacer!
| varenc wrote:
| I love displayplacer. Thank you for making it! Reading
| through some of the source code and its use of those
| undocumented APIs was also really cool.
|
| p.s. check out my pull request #62 for a bug fix! Funnily,
| it's for a scaling/HiDPI related issue. (though only matters
| when you don't use "mode: <>")
| jidiculous wrote:
| Are you still maintaining the project? It looks like it's
| been a while since the last commit or release.
| piyiotisk wrote:
| How can I use displayplacer to enabke hidpi?
| seam_carver wrote:
| S32D850: Resolution: 5120 x 2880 (5K/UHD+ - Ultra
| High Definition Plus) UI Looks like: 2560 x 1440
| @ 60.00Hz
| seam_carver wrote:
| This might be relevant. I took fullscreen screenshots. The
| first one was 2560x1440. The second one was 5120x2880.
| varenc wrote:
| makes sense! Screenshots are in the "real" resolution and not
| the "Looks Like" resolution. So that helps confirm that
| doubling the resolution/enabling HiDPI fixed the performance
| issue. Such a weird bug. Thanks for the write up.
| xlii wrote:
| I was having exact same problem and done a ton of research on the
| issue. Ultimately y I decided to buy eGPU which solved my
| problem.
|
| It seems that Radeon is taking a lot of power even on idle screen
| and with low load. This increases temperature which in turn
| creates environment where throttling on CPU happens so not only
| Macbook gets hot but also it's much slower.
|
| After research I found out that I can either work in clamshell
| mode (and I'd rather grew fond of having MBP + external monitor)
| or find a way to mitigate it.
|
| I decided to opt for eGPU which solved issue immediately. MacOS
| feel snappier, I don't remember last time when fans started and
| it's cool to touch. Not an exactly cheap solution for a i9 MBP
| but, eh, you do what you have to do.
|
| eGPU brings its own share of problems to MacOS (like ejecting it
| is not a simple thing - I always have to resort to doing this
| manually from console) and pulling the cable will kernel panic,
| but the upside is that I get quite nice connector hub and photo
| editing software works much nicer.
|
| I do think it's a shame that Apple even designed MBP like that.
| You buy beefed out MBP (5600M wasn't even available when I was
| buying it - and supposedly it fixes this issue) and it can't
| handle so complex task as displaying the second monitor without
| launching the rocket engine.
| alisonkisk wrote:
| It's not a bad design choice, it's a driver bug, since 2017.
|
| The power/heat is due unnecessary clocking up when it isn't
| even doing any work. The non-dGPU version does _better_ at the
| same task.
| xlii wrote:
| I'm quite sure that's not a driver bug. Reason for that is
| that Apple is well aware of the issue and that's why it's
| fixed in MBPs with 5600M.
|
| If that would be solely driver bug it would be patched by now
| (and that's an issue since 2019, so not exactly new).
| fdroidmstrrce wrote:
| > you do what you have to do.
|
| No I don't.
|
| Are you an iOS dev?
| ChrisMarshallNY wrote:
| I have two eGPUs; both of which are collecting dust.
|
| One is a BlackMagic eGPU Pro (since discontinued).
|
| The main reason that I disconnected them, is that I plan to get
| an M1X/M2 laptop, once they come out, and I know that the new
| chips don't work with eGPUs, so I might as well get used to it
| (Makes for simpler under-desk wiring, too).
|
| Also, the eGPUs seemed to introduce random crashes, and I don't
| like running on discontinued kit.
| deergomoo wrote:
| This was (and is) such a big issue that I sold my 16" MBP and
| bought an M1 MacBook Air.
|
| The monitor issue was particularly egregious because it would
| cause heat and noise even at idle, but the thing gets perilously
| hot and loud when put under even the slightest load.
|
| I am incredibly surprised that none of the reviews seemed to pick
| up on it, though I suspect they may have been highly swayed by
| this being the first MacBook in some years with a usable
| keyboard.
|
| I would not be surprised if we start to see a bunch of them fail
| en masse in a few years time.
| tjpnz wrote:
| What's the solution? I have no intention of giving Medium my
| details.
| themodelplumber wrote:
| Switch screen to hidpi mode in Mac settings
| seam_carver wrote:
| Just open the link in incognito or something. Or click non
| paywall link https://axu2.medium.com/solved-by-1440p-hidpi-
| macbook-pro-16...
| treeman79 wrote:
| Does this mean a 4K monitor doesn't have this issue?
| tomduncalf wrote:
| Seems like a good excuse to update my monitor lol - any
| recommendations?
| stevep98 wrote:
| I'm running one of the mentioned GPUs on a 4k monitor and never
| saw this problem.
| [deleted]
| jsjohnst wrote:
| I run two 5K LG displays (in addition to the laptop screen) on
| the 16" and don't have the issue.
| satysin wrote:
| I believe this is correct.
|
| I have always ran a 4K monitor and never hit this issue. My 15"
| (2018) and 16" MacBook Pro run silent when connected to the 4K
| monitor as it uses 2x scaling by default (so 4K "looks like"
| 1080p).
|
| However if I connect a 1440p display after half an hour or so
| the fans kick in.
|
| I don't own a 1440p display anymore to test this solution
| unfortunately.
| guofoo wrote:
| I've used on LG 4K, AOC 4K monitors running at 3840 x 2160 and
| they all have the similar fan problems. MBP 16 is 5500M
| seam_carver wrote:
| I think it's specific to 1440p
| vaughan wrote:
| Some tips on throttling problems:
|
| First, disable turbo boost.
|
| Second, point a desk fan at your MacBook.
|
| Third, eliminate processes that peg the CPU.
|
| ---
|
| How to know when it is throttling:
|
| Download Intel Power Gadget and watch the Frequency graph. If
| blue line doesn't match the red line then you are throttling.
|
| Run `sudo watch -d -t -n1 thermal levels`. When any reading goes
| over 100, it is in throttling mode.
|
| Once it trips over 100 you start throttling. Throttling doesn't
| end though until this value returns below 100. This number is not
| directly linked to temperature either. Even though your CPU may
| be at a safe temperature like 80 degrees which normally shouldn't
| throttle, your `thermal levels` will not decrease immediately.
| The best way to get them to decrease is by sleeping your MacBook.
|
| Maybe there is a hard-coded delayed back-off algorithm that is a
| function of the time the CPU spends above a certain temperature
| threshold - I'm not sure.
|
| I have also read that its potentially the voltage-regulator
| module that doesn't have a temp sensor that this may be linked
| to.
|
| ---
|
| You can also do a [cooling mod][1] if you really want to but its
| probably going to void and warranty and its risky.
|
| [1]: https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/2018-macbook-pro-
| coolin...
| sneak wrote:
| The article identifies this as a GPU driver bug, not an issue
| with CPU or CPU throttling.
| vaughan wrote:
| The voltage regulator module serves both CPU and GPU so the
| thermal issues are related.
| rayiner wrote:
| The MBP 16" is a buggy garbage machine. It also routinely kernel
| panics when disconnecting thunderbolt devices. For the first
| month it also regularly kernel panicked waking up from sleep like
| some piece of shit Windows laptop, but that seems to have gotten
| fixed in Catalina.
| rcthompson wrote:
| Wow, I thought my 4k 120Hz monitor was to blame for the massive
| thermal throttling of my MacBook, but maybe it's actually my
| 1440p secondary monitor.
| merb wrote:
| without the lid closed, no monitor works. I use 1080p monitors
| that do not work.
| tomduncalf wrote:
| Oh wow I'm pretty sure I've been debugging this issue all week
| and was on the verge of reformatting my Mac back to Catalina (as
| I don't recall seeing this there). What great timing!
|
| I noticed the issue as my laptop feeling laggy overall, but
| especially that graphics on the laptop screen (eg the minimise
| animation) ran at like 5fps when my external monitor was
| connected - they were fine without, and the external monitor was
| ok.
|
| A friend said theirs was fine with the same setup but a 4K
| monitor so I did wonder if it was something to do with scaling
| but wasn't aware you could do anything about it. Will test this
| out tomorrow!
|
| Slightly off topic but related - had a fun day yesterday tracking
| down the fact that in Big Sur, timers in tasks that are not in
| the foreground (ie the active window) start firing up to 10 secs
| late. I thought it must be a symptom of whatever issue was making
| my computer laggy but it actually seems to be aggressive power
| saving... so if anyone knows how to opt out of that I'll be
| happy, really messes up what I was doing yesterday (basically a
| program that forwards IPC messages between two programs - they
| start arriving late after 10 secs or so).
| vaughan wrote:
| > my laptop feeling laggy overall
|
| Run `sudo watch -d -t -n1 thermal levels`.
|
| When levels are above 100, your laptop will throttle. Once they
| return to 100, throttling will cease. There is a back-off
| algorithm at play too, so its not good enough that your CPU
| returns to normal temperature, it must stay at normal
| temperature for a period of time before things stop lagging.
|
| Also, disable turbo boost.
| userbinator wrote:
| _Seeing as how it makes no sense that rendering at 2x resolution
| cause 1 /3 of the power draw_
|
| My bet is that another scaling step is causing it; and HiDPI mode
| is "native", so no scaling.
|
| You can see this in the comparison of the two screenshots; the
| first one looks like an antialising filter was applied to all the
| pixels and halved the resolution (so a 2x2 block of 4 pixels
| turns into one averaged "huge" pixel), the second one doesn't.
| yarcob wrote:
| No, it's not. This is a bug.
|
| macOS has two rendering modes: Normal (1x) and HiDPI / Retina
| (2x). For this reason, most apps have two different sets of
| assets like icons and other images shown in the UI.
|
| After rendering the content either at 1x or 2x, the picture is
| scaled to the "real" resolution of the display. This allows
| Apple to support a large number of "scaled" resolutions, but
| the apps only have to support two modes (1x or 2x).
|
| You can see that this happens if you have two displays attached
| to your Mac, one with Retina and one without. When you drag a
| window from the Non-Retina-Display to the Retina-Display it
| will be pixelated at first (it was drawin in 1x mode), until
| it's completely on the new display, then it will redraw in 2x
| mode and become sharp.
|
| Normally 1x mode is faster. Try opening an app that shows a lot
| of data (eg. a large spreadsheet) and scroll quickly on a 1080p
| display vs. on a 4K display. You'll should see that the
| scrolling is much smoother on 1x than on 2x, since the 2x
| display needs to draw four times as many pixels.
|
| So this is clearly a bug, and not because of some additional
| scaling from 2x->1x. As this blog post shows, it's faster when
| downscaling from 2x.
| userbinator wrote:
| I'm saying that the bug could be another scaling step is
| happening where it's not necessary. In 1x mode it could
| really be rendering at 1x, scaling up to 2x for whatever
| reason (this is the bug) and then down again.
| yarcob wrote:
| OK, that's not how I understood your comment. I thought you
| meant that macOS always renders in 2x and scales down for
| 1x. That's not the case.
|
| (Also, the pictures in the blog look like they have been
| resized for the blog, so I wouldn't read too much into
| their blurriness)
| seam_carver wrote:
| I took fullscreen screenshots to get the statistics, then
| cropped via another screenshot. The first one was
| 2560x1440. The 2nd one was 5220x2880. So noticeably
| sharper.
| [deleted]
| seam_carver wrote:
| This might be relevant. I took fullscreen screenshots. The
| first one was 2560x1440. The second one was 5120x2880.
| crazygringo wrote:
| > _HiDPI mode is "native", so no scaling_
|
| That's not always the case. It _can_ be, depending on the
| resolution selected (in this case it 's "default for display"
| so no idea).
|
| HiDPI just means 2x rendering. But it still might be scaled to
| the resolution you've chosen for your display.
|
| On my MacBook Pro 13", there are four scale choices from
| "larger text" to "more space". The first option upscales
| (slightly blurry), the second option displays the 2x directly
| ("natively"), and the third and fourth options downscale.
|
| They're all still HiDPI though. In contrast, when I plug into
| my 1080p projector, it goes back to 1x ("LoDPI"?) rendering.
| mattgreenrocks wrote:
| 2020 16" MBP with 5500M and Big Sur doesn't have any fan issues
| in clamshell when using my 1440p display. I don't use HiDPI, but
| it is running at 144hz.
|
| Another data point. Seems like putting more load on some part of
| the system prevents this, but it is very strange.
| seam_carver wrote:
| I'm starting to think it's specific to 1440p60
| AJRF wrote:
| I had this and then got an M1 MBP and it flickers wildly on dark
| backgrounds when connected via USB-C. I think that's going to be
| my last Apple laptop.
| smoldesu wrote:
| Same issue I had on my M1 Macbook Air. Guess I just need to
| forgo one of my monitors, sigh...
| tomatotomato37 wrote:
| Can the title be edited to remove the exaggerated capitalization?
| This is an interesting enough article but the title makes it feel
| like some clickbait video
| seam_carver wrote:
| I just quoted the 200 page MacRumors article with the same
| clickbaity title, since I though people might recognize it.
| moosebear847 wrote:
| Yes, instantly recognized the title as from MacRumors.
| Although the sad face `:(` is missing
| wdr1 wrote:
| Is there a way to fix this but still keep the lid open? I open
| use the smaller screen off to the side for things like my
| calendar or Spotify.
| carstenhag wrote:
| And I use my Mac as keyboard/TouchPad, but suffering a lot from
| this heat crap :(
| fdroidmstrrce wrote:
| Hmm a few days ago I posted about the overheating issue on m1
| that is being talked about on Reddit and a few other websites.
|
| I was flagged.
|
| HN is carefully curated for our FAANG overlords.
| SigmundA wrote:
| I had the issue when going from driving my two 4k monitors with
| usb-c directly to going through a thunderbolt 4 hub that then did
| HDMI out (Caldigit).
|
| After some searching it seems HDMI conversion can trigger it.
| Switched to a TB4 hub that did usb-c to monitors (which uses
| display port instead, Kensington) and radeon high side idle went
| back down and fans slowed down.
|
| Will be happy to move to Apple Silicon just for the lack of fan
| noise.
| wombat-man wrote:
| I have this problem. Had no problem working with the laptop open
| and 2 monitors for a year or so. Upgraded to big sur and now it's
| an issue. I think i can manage but i hear those fans struggling.
| mstg wrote:
| I've had thermal throttling issues with my 16" since I've gotten
| it, and it's only gotten worse. I had to do a downgrade to
| Catalina to even be able to use it. It's so funny that a $4.3k
| machine can't even run Zoom or Meet properly. I also had to do a
| SwitchResX trick + clamshell mode to even be able to dock for a
| few hours (and it'll overheat again).
|
| I play an occasional Dota 2 match, that my 2014 13" handled
| without any issues, while my 16" just shuts itself down because
| of overheating (even while not docked, because of dGPU usage). I
| don't care if it's an AMD issue, then the GPUs shouldn't be in
| their machine.
|
| MacBooks used to be so good, and just work. Now not so much. I'll
| think twice before buying anything Apple (computer-wise) ever
| again.
|
| Specs: 2,3Ghz 8-core i9, 64GB RAM, AMD Radeon Pro 5500M 8GB
| tqkxzugoaupvwqr wrote:
| I have a MacBook Pro with the same specs. $4000 machine that
| runs hot with loud fans when I connect an external 4K monitor.
| It's annoying af.
| dontblink wrote:
| What was used to monitor the power consumption?
| SloopJon wrote:
| iStat Menus:
|
| > You can tell, since the screenshot of the power draw
| monitoring utility (iStat Menus) is twice as sharp in the
| second example.
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