[HN Gopher] Deadly fungi are an emerging microbe threat
___________________________________________________________________
Deadly fungi are an emerging microbe threat
Author : laurex
Score : 105 points
Date : 2021-05-21 17:37 UTC (5 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.scientificamerican.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.scientificamerican.com)
| edejong wrote:
| Radiolab published a podcast about it in 2020:
| https://www.wnycstudios.org/podcasts/radiolab/articles/fungu...
| blueblisters wrote:
| In India, Mucormycosis, a rare fungal infection is being seen in
| patients recovering from Covid-19. It has been declared an
| epidemic I believe. Doctors believe that high blood sugar and an
| indiscriminate use of steroids to reduce Covid-19 inflammation is
| linked to the spread.
| sdljfjafsd wrote:
| This isn't surprising to me. In India a lot of state
| governments are sending covid pill packs to citizens which
| really don't do anything for covid and contain things like
| hydroxychloroquine, remdesivir, zinc, other steroids, and other
| blood thinners.
|
| even the AIMS protocol doesn't recommend against drugs and
| techniques that the rest of the world has rejected almost a
| year ago. My partner treats covid in the US and has been doing
| consults to patients in India. Most of their work is telling
| patients to ignore the pills their doctors or government has
| been sending, although they rarely listen.
|
| I wouldn't be surprised if a large chunk of the covid negative
| or mild covid population is on steroids.
| nojokes wrote:
| Systemic corticosteroids are strongly recommended for
| patients by WHO. I see from here
| https://www.indiatoday.in/coronavirus-
| outbreak/story/remdesi... that also budesonide is recommended
| for patients with mild symptoms and the usage of is backed up
| by recent studies.
|
| I do not think that the problem is steroid usage by itself
| but depressing lack of even basic hygiene even in hospitals.
|
| PS. Blood thinning is standard procedure in COVID-19 care for
| many hospitals, dunno how reasonable at home without any
| tests. Remdesivir is injected, I do not believe that it is
| distributed. Perhaps you meant ivermectin?
| woeirua wrote:
| You should be _much_ more concerned about bacteria developing
| antibiotic resistance. While fungi are undoubtedly evolving
| quickly and may one day pose a risk to us, the devil we know is
| already working very quickly to overwhelm our best medications.
| And we know that without those medications millions per year will
| die.
|
| But I'm not that worried about antibiotic resistance, because
| there are many ways to skin a cat. MRNA vaccines, bacteriophages,
| targeted antibiotics, nanotech, etc all offer us ways to break
| free from the natural arms race that we're in right now.
| matheusmoreira wrote:
| We've got a lot of pharmacological weapons suitable for use
| against bacteria. For fungi we have azoles, amphotericin B...
| That's pretty much it.
|
| My microbiology professor used to be terrified of these things.
| Probably still is.
| MrMan wrote:
| There is a new third class of anti fungals
| mrweasel wrote:
| The issue with fungi is that we have so litte efficient
| medication. What little we do have is slowly being render
| useless by its overuse in agriculture.
| alea_iacta_est wrote:
| Gotta keep the plebs scared or they may start asking questions...
| Red_Leaves_Flyy wrote:
| One can do both. Even an uneducated poor grunt like me can
| simultaneously worry about novel diseases and the countless
| corrupt machinations at play the world over.
| ryanmarsh wrote:
| Eat the bugs, live in the pod
| phaemon wrote:
| What great questions have you asked?
| bigbillheck wrote:
| Don't misunderestimate fungus, buddy:
| http://www.fao.org/agriculture/crops/rust/stem/rust-report/s...
| alea_iacta_est wrote:
| And meteors, and murder hornets, and rip current, and sun
| flares, and cholesterol, and lightnings, tornados, straight-
| line wind, fast food, microwaves... and ... and ...
|
| "Every man dies. Not every man really lives" - William
| Wallace
| dkarras wrote:
| ...and gubmint. hell yeah, let's go rob a bank. you in?
| bigbillheck wrote:
| Puccinia and other crop diseases have historically led to a
| lot more human deaths than any of those other things put
| together.
| devops000 wrote:
| It will be the new COVID?
| trey-jones wrote:
| Wait, I thought it was prions. See?
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18648043
| pmlnr wrote:
| prions are one of those things I wish I never started reading
| about. It's like reading about Lovecraftian gods when you know
| there's nothing that could protect you if it hits you.
| masklinn wrote:
| Por que no los dos?
|
| But really the potential of prions is so bad if they _could_
| realise it we'd already be done for, they'd be a homogenising
| swarm.
|
| Fungi though, fungi already do a lot, and they're as
| ridiculously varied and flexible as they've been neglected. The
| next zoonotic threat being fungi makes a lot of sense, and it
| sounds rather bad.
| matheusmoreira wrote:
| Prions are dangerous but unlike fungi they remain rare.
| Mercifully.
| Red_Leaves_Flyy wrote:
| >fallingknife on Dec 10, 2018
|
| >Infectious disease is one area where fear of the unknown is
| rational. We don't just need to defend against existing
| diseases, but also diseases yet to emerge.
|
| Sage wisdom shared a mere year before the covid outbreak.
| some_account_ wrote:
| In related news, there has been a recent outbreak in India of
| deadly "Black Fungus" in Covid patients.
|
| https://www.theguardian.com/global/2021/may/11/what-is-the-d...
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mucormycosis
| [deleted]
| throw0101a wrote:
| I for one welcome our new Cordycep Overlords:
|
| * https://thelastofus.fandom.com/wiki/Cordyceps_Brain_Infectio...
| actinium226 wrote:
| "I have lived through many great tragedies in my life, and some
| of them actually happened"
|
| Mark Twain
| allturtles wrote:
| https://quoteinvestigator.com/2013/10/04/never-happened/
| na85 wrote:
| I don't understand the relevance of this quote.
| jcelerier wrote:
| Cataclysmic events are very often reported by newspapers, but
| in practice only a few are actually cataclysmic
| [deleted]
| [deleted]
| tbwriting wrote:
| Imagine posting this in 2018 under an article about
| coronaviruses in bats.
| acheron wrote:
| Or in 2002 or 2011 about coronaviruses or in 2015 about ebola
| or in 2009 about swine flu or or or...
|
| You don't get credit for predicting 10 of the last 1
| pandemics.
| AlotOfReading wrote:
| Ebola and H1N1 were both epidemics. The former wasn't a
| pandemic and the latter didn't kill that many people in
| hindsight, but they were most definitely epidemic in large
| communities.
| MaxBarraclough wrote:
| With the disclaimer that I'm not an expert: Also, ebola
| didn't just fizzle out of its own accord, its spread was
| halted by a concerted, and brave, effort. Medics died
| fighting that epidemic. I suspect it could have been
| orders of magnitude more lethal had it been handled less
| effectively.
| actinium226 wrote:
| Yes, exactly, _some_ of them actually happened!
| everdrive wrote:
| Are they becoming deadlier? Or, did they just rise higher in the
| list by virtue of the fact that other threats were mitigated.
| shoto_io wrote:
| Might be also be attributed to attention bias. Interest in
| fungi steadily grew -in my perception at least- over the last
| years.
| ipsum2 wrote:
| > That mutual coexistence is now tipping out of balance. Fungi
| are surging beyond the climate zones they long lived in,
| adapting to environments that would once have been inimical,
| learning new behaviors that let them leap between species in
| novel ways. While executing those maneuvers, they are becoming
| more successful pathogens, threatening human health in ways--
| and numbers--they could not achieve before.
|
| Still early stages, but signs point to fungi becoming deadlier.
| bdamm wrote:
| It's a bit of creative writing, mostly. Fungi evolve, that's
| what they do. And they evolve very rapidly. They also have
| great staying power, with spores that have covered every
| square millimeter of the earth pretty much for the entire
| history of life on earth. You're breathing some in right now.
|
| Animals evolved warm-bloodedness partly to improve resistance
| to environmental fungi. Meanwhile, insects (bees, ants,
| others) actually farm fungi as part of their food and for
| defense. This all points to a really profound and fundamental
| fact: We have been co-existing with fungi every second of
| every person's entire lives.
|
| If fungi are killing more people, it's because people have
| changed, not the fungi.
| eloff wrote:
| Was with you up to:
|
| > If fungi are killing more people, it's because people
| have changed, not the fungi.
|
| That's an overreach. It could be either or both. Obviously
| fungi are evolving rapidly as you yourself point out.
| [deleted]
| Dotnaught wrote:
| >Animals evolved warm-bloodedness partly to improve
| resistance to environmental fungi
|
| I was listening to a podcast recently that discussed how
| human average body temperature has been declining in recent
| years while heat tolerance of fungi has been rising (thanks
| to the climate). The result is that our bodies are less
| capable of preventing fungal infections through heat and
| fungi can be pretty deadly if unchecked.
| everdrive wrote:
| That's pretty interesting. Are there any guesses as to
| why body temperature is declining?
| Dotnaught wrote:
| It was a Radio Lab (Fungus Amungus): https://www.wnycstud
| ios.org/podcasts/radiolab/articles/fungu...
|
| The theory is that in wealthy countries with good public
| health, there's less need to maintain a high body
| temperature to fend off threats. The show said that human
| body temperature "has been steadily declining for decades
| at a rate of, like, .05 degrees Fahrenheit per decade."
| (though not in less developed countries)...average is
| said to be more like 97.5 degrees.
| edejong wrote:
| Here is my hypothesis. Our body temperature is expensive
| and evolutionary not 'stable'. In the past, it would make
| sense that in environments with lower bacterial threats,
| the group would select for lower body temperature in
| order to preserve energy.
|
| In order to do that, individuals with too low a body
| temperature would be removed from the group due to
| infections. This would create a balanced system between
| body temperature (energy expenditure) and bacterial
| immunity.
|
| With the development of antibiotics, this changed. The
| previous bottom of the group is not culled anymore,
| removing the barrier of the imbalance. Therefore, the
| group is 'safely' selecting for lower body temperatures.
| kk58 wrote:
| Interestingly in Ayurveda this is called kapha dominant
| body and it occurs when eats a food heavy in kapha heavy
| foods like sweets, dairy, cheese
|
| So it's possible this reduction reflects a change in our
| diets
| Enginerrrd wrote:
| My money is on the same endocrine disupters that are
| lowering testosterone levels, lowering sperm counts, and
| likely increasing obesity issues.
| edejong wrote:
| You probably want to link the podcast: https://www.wnycst
| udios.org/podcasts/radiolab/articles/fungu...
| [deleted]
| matheusmoreira wrote:
| > human average body temperature has been declining in
| recent years
|
| What? More details and citations are needed.
| ipsum2 wrote:
| Why not Google it yourself? The first few results:
|
| https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/10/20102817143
| 2.h....
|
| https://med.stanford.edu/news/all-news/2020/01/human-
| body-te...
|
| https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/are-human-
| body-te...
| matheusmoreira wrote:
| Because I'm not the one who claimed body temperatures
| were decreasing.
| ipsum2 wrote:
| If I claimed that it was raining in San Francisco right
| now, do I need to provide a weather report, or would you
| be able to find it yourself?
| matheusmoreira wrote:
| I wouldn't even have replied to your post had you claimed
| that.
| tbwriting wrote:
| 15th paragraph:
|
| > Not all of our vulnerability is the fault of medicine
| preserving life so successfully. Other human actions have
| opened more doors between the fungal world and our own. We
| clear land for crops and settlement and perturb what were
| stable balances between fungi and their hosts. We carry goods
| and animals across the world, and fungi hitchhike on them. We
| drench crops in fungicides and enhance the resistance of
| organisms residing nearby. We take actions that warm the
| climate, and fungi adapt, narrowing the gap between their
| preferred temperature and ours that protected us for so long.
| a3w wrote:
| Take over the world as: bacteria, easy. Virus, easy, but a little
| random. Fungi? Now the player needs to start thinking. Source:
| Plague Inc.
| Alex3917 wrote:
| Discussed previously on HN:
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5995095
|
| Where commenters of course insist that fungi can't develop
| resistance to anti-fungals, and fungal infections aren't
| dangerous in the first place.
| antiviral wrote:
| Fungi can be very potent. There is a form of fungi called
| Cordyceps that invade the brains of ants and change their
| behavior in a way that increases its spread. Here's a clip by
| Attenborough explaining it best:
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XuKjBIBBAL8
|
| They even made a movie about this jumping to humans called "The
| Girl with all the Gifts"
| eloff wrote:
| It's David Attenborough.
| ctoth wrote:
| Reminds me of this fantastic short novel:
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27238610
| [deleted]
| lifty wrote:
| They also made a video game inspired by it, called The Last of
| Us. One of my favorite games.
| tonyhb wrote:
| This is where the inspiration for The Last of Us came from.
|
| Another form of this is in Cicadas:
| https://www.npr.org/2021/05/18/997998920/the-fungus-thats-ma...
|
| The fungi is essentially a cicada STD which eats at their
| bodies.
| astrange wrote:
| Mammals are much more resistant to parasites though - we have
| better immune systems, a high internal body temperature, and
| don't use pheromones. All of those are essentially there to
| prevent fungi from mind controlling us.
| Yuioup wrote:
| Oh what now
| bmitc wrote:
| A film by Adam Curtis about how all of us have become Richard
| Nixon.
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxV3_bG1EHA
| pkdpic_y9k wrote:
| Love it, the mans brain is made of solid gold dogecoin tesla
| NFTs as always.
|
| But these shorter Adam Curtis vids have always confused me a
| bit. Are they just parts of longer documentaries that Ive
| never come across or does he sometimes produce these things
| to be under 10min? Were these aired on the BBC in between
| other programs or something?
| foobiekr wrote:
| I believe this is extracted from "The Trap."
| qart wrote:
| Drug resistant microbes are getting bred by Indian pharma
| factories [corrected from "pharmacies"] through their own
| carelessness [1]. I think it's high time WHO or some such agency
| got more powers to penalize the perpetrators beyond the
| jurisdiction of the country. If these bugs start in one place,
| people on the other side of the globe get affected quickly too.
| At the moment, it seems that the best the west can do is not buy
| from factories that pollute. But this measure is insufficient.
|
| [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H9EJuAU2Un4
| ozborn wrote:
| The article was about fungal infections, not bacterial
| infections. In both cases the amount of both antibiotics and
| anti-fungals used by humans is small relative to their use in
| agriculture. That may be an easier place to start, although it
| doesn't preclude sanction against whatever bad practices are
| described in your linked video (didn't watch).
| qart wrote:
| The video is about effluents form the pharma industry. The
| scale dwarfs any abuse by both human patients and animal
| farming. I have modified my comment above because I had used
| the wrong word.
| nightwing wrote:
| The only effective way to reduce use of anti-fungals in
| agriculture is to develop new resistant varieties of plants,
| but that is sadly blocked by people unreasonably fearing gmo.
| [deleted]
| brundolf wrote:
| Tell me when I need to actually do something about it. Until
| then, I have better things to spend my mental energy on.
___________________________________________________________________
(page generated 2021-05-21 23:02 UTC)