[HN Gopher] Earth Species: Roadmaps towards decoding non-human l...
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Earth Species: Roadmaps towards decoding non-human languages
Author : polm23
Score : 71 points
Date : 2021-05-21 09:36 UTC (13 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (github.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (github.com)
| Yenrabbit wrote:
| They're hiring at the moment apparently - looked like some
| interesting roles. https://www.earthspecies.org/jobs (No
| affiliation - just saw it via Twitter earlier today)
| fao_ wrote:
| For anyone interested in topics like these, I recommend checking
| out Issac Arthur's "Cryptic Aliens" video, where he talks in
| depth about the assumptions that we can make about some of the
| forms of aliens just from natural laws, and about how much the
| aliens could understand of our language just from statistical
| analysis and a rough 1950s knowledge of science.
|
| It's very interesting and it blew me a way a little.
| vlahmot wrote:
| Also check out his "Alien languages" and "First Contact"
| videos!
| yummypaint wrote:
| I imagine different local groups of animals may have their own
| linguistic culture. This has been seen with whales. People who
| have cats used to being fed at regular times will be familiar
| with whatever food calls they have decided on. Cats will
| sometimes use different vocalizations for different people when
| referring to the same thing. Cats rarely vocalize when
| communicating with each other. They clearly want to be understood
| by people, but i worry the fragmentation will make this kind of
| broad project very difficult.
|
| https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/05/110512104252.h...
| tsimionescu wrote:
| It will be interesting to see what they can come up with.
|
| Still, given all the research so far, there is no such thing as
| animal _language_ , not in the sense we understand human
| language. In particular, it's very clear that animal calls are
| not in any way equivalent to human words, they are at best
| equivalent to human facial expressions - quasi-automatic
| responses to certain stimuli, normally without any syntax or
| other signifiers.
|
| There may be some exceptions, given that, for example, some
| dolphins have successfully been taught simple syntax (the
| difference between "Go there, do this" and "do this, go there",
| which no other mammal has successfully comprehended).
| marcus_holmes wrote:
| I know people whose communication appears to be quasi-automatic
| responses to certain stimuli.
|
| I thought they'd worked out that dolphins have language and
| complex social structures? I was definitely told that when I
| saw the dolphins at Monkey Mia.
|
| And dogs definitely communicate with humans, and understand
| human speech ("W.A.L.K" or you get zoomies for 10 minutes).
|
| What's the research that says all of this is "not language"?
| h2odragon wrote:
| Animals speak with scent, posture, _gesture_ , and other means as
| well as with sound; and focusing solely on the audible portions
| of animal communication is never going to work well.
|
| Raising my blind baby goat (as part of a dog pack), is showing me
| this anew: the dogs are having trouble talking to the baby
| because she can't see the postures and gestures. Scent and sound
| and feel are fine, but growly dogs' "respect my space and play
| nice" isn't being communicated at all.
| dopidopHN wrote:
| They address some of it on their documentation.
|
| It's seems that various version of sign language will be their
| first target of non audio communication.
| bohadi wrote:
| If you haven't seen it yet, as an enjoyer may I recommend 2016
| film Arrival. Could just as well be a dolphin in the tank.
|
| "They're saying.. 'Thanks for the fish'.
| rpaddock wrote:
| "How Animals Talk" first published in 1919. A newer edition was
| released in 2005. Would be worth reading if interested in working
| on this project.
|
| Rupert Sheldrake controversial work would also be of interest.
| Starting with his book "Dogs who know when their owners are
| coming home". It can not always be attributed to sound, smell or
| time of day.
| bostonsre wrote:
| Has anyone successfully decoded a language of another species
| with this or other efforts? Or does anyone know what's the
| furthest we think we've gotten when decoding language for another
| species?
| hyper_dynamics wrote:
| Are there even other "languages"? Or are there just signals
| like "land-predator!" etc?
| XorNot wrote:
| Dolphins are understood well enough that we know there are
| regional dialects, and they broadcast individual name
| identifiers.
|
| We know they're talking at least enough to have a sense of
| self, but AFAIK we haven't deciphered the culture/language
| enough to say anything meaningful to them.
| meristohm wrote:
| I sleep outside most days year-round and the morning chatter
| of the birds is a delight. I understand none of it. Maybe
| they, like us, enjoy hearing themselves talk?
| Loughla wrote:
| I always chuckle at birdsong, and how pretty it is. Most of
| it evolved to be some form of "GO AWAY" or "COME HAVE SEX
| PLEASE" that was loud and distinct enough to be heard over
| great distances and over the other noises in nature.
|
| So, listening to sweet birdsong first thing in the morning
| is like going to a rowdy bar on a Saturday night and
| listening to the singles yell at each other over the music.
|
| It genuinely never fails to make me chuckle when I'm on the
| porch listening to birds in the morning.
| KineticLensman wrote:
| > Most of it evolved to be some form of "GO AWAY" or
| "COME HAVE SEX PLEASE"
|
| You missed "DANGER DANGER" and "FEED ME" and "I'M HERE
| WHERE ARE YOU" and "HEADS UP GUYS (let's mob that
| raptor)"
| marcus_holmes wrote:
| I always love that quote (can't find it) that Elephants
| have a special noise for "warning! there are bees
| nearby!", and someone pointing out that humans do too, it
| sounds like this: "warning! there are bees nearby!"
| 2Ghosty wrote:
| I'm curious about sleeping outside. Is it normal in your
| culture or a personal preference? Are you in a tent or
| exposed?
| forgotmypw17 wrote:
| I think if anyone's had any success decoding animal language,
| it's been in a personal setting, with a whole lot of listening,
| observing, and paying attention.
|
| Each individual animal has its own personality and language
| which they'll share with you, just like when humans who share a
| lot of time together tend to form their own language variants.
|
| One of the most helpful books on the subject I've read is "Wild
| Animals I Have Known" (1898)
| blacksmith_tb wrote:
| While that's personally appealing to me, I worry that we tend
| to understand what we want to understand - there's a reason
| we use the expression "if a were a horse" as a parody of
| empathy. Though of course that's even more true of trying to
| make sense of other human beings, which I don't think is
| impossible (just hard).
| forgotmypw17 wrote:
| I think it is very similar to human beings, except relying
| even more on the non-verbal.
|
| If you have doubts about interpretation vs "facts", then I
| can only guess/assume that you have not had this
| experience.
|
| The best advice I can give for establishing a relationship
| is to think hard about what the animal wants most, and try
| to offer it in a way that it can understand is connected
| with you.
| jyounker wrote:
| We know that cotton top tamarins have at least 38 calls, the
| calls have a grammatical structure, the calls are learned, and
| comprehension comes before usage mastery. That pretty much
| qualifies as a language.
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cotton-top_tamarin
| eternalban wrote:
| _" Decoding the language of plants and flowers has been a
| decades-long challenge. But that changes today. Thanks to great
| advancements in artificial intelligence, Google Home is now
| able to understand tulips, allowing translation between
| 'Tulipish' and dozens of human languages."_
|
| https://www.blog.google/products/home/google-tulip/
| YeGoblynQueenne wrote:
| Matthew Feigal Plant Engineer, Google Tulip
| Published Apr 01, 2019
| FridayoLeary wrote:
| Soon they will be tailoring ads to improve tulips browsing
| experience.
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