[HN Gopher] Earth Species: Roadmaps towards decoding non-human l...
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       Earth Species: Roadmaps towards decoding non-human languages
        
       Author : polm23
       Score  : 71 points
       Date   : 2021-05-21 09:36 UTC (13 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (github.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (github.com)
        
       | Yenrabbit wrote:
       | They're hiring at the moment apparently - looked like some
       | interesting roles. https://www.earthspecies.org/jobs (No
       | affiliation - just saw it via Twitter earlier today)
        
       | fao_ wrote:
       | For anyone interested in topics like these, I recommend checking
       | out Issac Arthur's "Cryptic Aliens" video, where he talks in
       | depth about the assumptions that we can make about some of the
       | forms of aliens just from natural laws, and about how much the
       | aliens could understand of our language just from statistical
       | analysis and a rough 1950s knowledge of science.
       | 
       | It's very interesting and it blew me a way a little.
        
         | vlahmot wrote:
         | Also check out his "Alien languages" and "First Contact"
         | videos!
        
       | yummypaint wrote:
       | I imagine different local groups of animals may have their own
       | linguistic culture. This has been seen with whales. People who
       | have cats used to being fed at regular times will be familiar
       | with whatever food calls they have decided on. Cats will
       | sometimes use different vocalizations for different people when
       | referring to the same thing. Cats rarely vocalize when
       | communicating with each other. They clearly want to be understood
       | by people, but i worry the fragmentation will make this kind of
       | broad project very difficult.
       | 
       | https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/05/110512104252.h...
        
       | tsimionescu wrote:
       | It will be interesting to see what they can come up with.
       | 
       | Still, given all the research so far, there is no such thing as
       | animal _language_ , not in the sense we understand human
       | language. In particular, it's very clear that animal calls are
       | not in any way equivalent to human words, they are at best
       | equivalent to human facial expressions - quasi-automatic
       | responses to certain stimuli, normally without any syntax or
       | other signifiers.
       | 
       | There may be some exceptions, given that, for example, some
       | dolphins have successfully been taught simple syntax (the
       | difference between "Go there, do this" and "do this, go there",
       | which no other mammal has successfully comprehended).
        
         | marcus_holmes wrote:
         | I know people whose communication appears to be quasi-automatic
         | responses to certain stimuli.
         | 
         | I thought they'd worked out that dolphins have language and
         | complex social structures? I was definitely told that when I
         | saw the dolphins at Monkey Mia.
         | 
         | And dogs definitely communicate with humans, and understand
         | human speech ("W.A.L.K" or you get zoomies for 10 minutes).
         | 
         | What's the research that says all of this is "not language"?
        
       | h2odragon wrote:
       | Animals speak with scent, posture, _gesture_ , and other means as
       | well as with sound; and focusing solely on the audible portions
       | of animal communication is never going to work well.
       | 
       | Raising my blind baby goat (as part of a dog pack), is showing me
       | this anew: the dogs are having trouble talking to the baby
       | because she can't see the postures and gestures. Scent and sound
       | and feel are fine, but growly dogs' "respect my space and play
       | nice" isn't being communicated at all.
        
         | dopidopHN wrote:
         | They address some of it on their documentation.
         | 
         | It's seems that various version of sign language will be their
         | first target of non audio communication.
        
       | bohadi wrote:
       | If you haven't seen it yet, as an enjoyer may I recommend 2016
       | film Arrival. Could just as well be a dolphin in the tank.
       | 
       | "They're saying.. 'Thanks for the fish'.
        
       | rpaddock wrote:
       | "How Animals Talk" first published in 1919. A newer edition was
       | released in 2005. Would be worth reading if interested in working
       | on this project.
       | 
       | Rupert Sheldrake controversial work would also be of interest.
       | Starting with his book "Dogs who know when their owners are
       | coming home". It can not always be attributed to sound, smell or
       | time of day.
        
       | bostonsre wrote:
       | Has anyone successfully decoded a language of another species
       | with this or other efforts? Or does anyone know what's the
       | furthest we think we've gotten when decoding language for another
       | species?
        
         | hyper_dynamics wrote:
         | Are there even other "languages"? Or are there just signals
         | like "land-predator!" etc?
        
           | XorNot wrote:
           | Dolphins are understood well enough that we know there are
           | regional dialects, and they broadcast individual name
           | identifiers.
           | 
           | We know they're talking at least enough to have a sense of
           | self, but AFAIK we haven't deciphered the culture/language
           | enough to say anything meaningful to them.
        
           | meristohm wrote:
           | I sleep outside most days year-round and the morning chatter
           | of the birds is a delight. I understand none of it. Maybe
           | they, like us, enjoy hearing themselves talk?
        
             | Loughla wrote:
             | I always chuckle at birdsong, and how pretty it is. Most of
             | it evolved to be some form of "GO AWAY" or "COME HAVE SEX
             | PLEASE" that was loud and distinct enough to be heard over
             | great distances and over the other noises in nature.
             | 
             | So, listening to sweet birdsong first thing in the morning
             | is like going to a rowdy bar on a Saturday night and
             | listening to the singles yell at each other over the music.
             | 
             | It genuinely never fails to make me chuckle when I'm on the
             | porch listening to birds in the morning.
        
               | KineticLensman wrote:
               | > Most of it evolved to be some form of "GO AWAY" or
               | "COME HAVE SEX PLEASE"
               | 
               | You missed "DANGER DANGER" and "FEED ME" and "I'M HERE
               | WHERE ARE YOU" and "HEADS UP GUYS (let's mob that
               | raptor)"
        
               | marcus_holmes wrote:
               | I always love that quote (can't find it) that Elephants
               | have a special noise for "warning! there are bees
               | nearby!", and someone pointing out that humans do too, it
               | sounds like this: "warning! there are bees nearby!"
        
             | 2Ghosty wrote:
             | I'm curious about sleeping outside. Is it normal in your
             | culture or a personal preference? Are you in a tent or
             | exposed?
        
         | forgotmypw17 wrote:
         | I think if anyone's had any success decoding animal language,
         | it's been in a personal setting, with a whole lot of listening,
         | observing, and paying attention.
         | 
         | Each individual animal has its own personality and language
         | which they'll share with you, just like when humans who share a
         | lot of time together tend to form their own language variants.
         | 
         | One of the most helpful books on the subject I've read is "Wild
         | Animals I Have Known" (1898)
        
           | blacksmith_tb wrote:
           | While that's personally appealing to me, I worry that we tend
           | to understand what we want to understand - there's a reason
           | we use the expression "if a were a horse" as a parody of
           | empathy. Though of course that's even more true of trying to
           | make sense of other human beings, which I don't think is
           | impossible (just hard).
        
             | forgotmypw17 wrote:
             | I think it is very similar to human beings, except relying
             | even more on the non-verbal.
             | 
             | If you have doubts about interpretation vs "facts", then I
             | can only guess/assume that you have not had this
             | experience.
             | 
             | The best advice I can give for establishing a relationship
             | is to think hard about what the animal wants most, and try
             | to offer it in a way that it can understand is connected
             | with you.
        
         | jyounker wrote:
         | We know that cotton top tamarins have at least 38 calls, the
         | calls have a grammatical structure, the calls are learned, and
         | comprehension comes before usage mastery. That pretty much
         | qualifies as a language.
         | 
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cotton-top_tamarin
        
         | eternalban wrote:
         | _" Decoding the language of plants and flowers has been a
         | decades-long challenge. But that changes today. Thanks to great
         | advancements in artificial intelligence, Google Home is now
         | able to understand tulips, allowing translation between
         | 'Tulipish' and dozens of human languages."_
         | 
         | https://www.blog.google/products/home/google-tulip/
        
           | YeGoblynQueenne wrote:
           | Matthew Feigal       Plant Engineer, Google Tulip
           | Published Apr 01, 2019
        
           | FridayoLeary wrote:
           | Soon they will be tailoring ads to improve tulips browsing
           | experience.
        
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