[HN Gopher] From apes to birds, animal species that "laugh"
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From apes to birds, animal species that "laugh"
Author : Engineering-MD
Score : 104 points
Date : 2021-05-18 12:11 UTC (1 days ago)
(HTM) web link (arstechnica.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (arstechnica.com)
| danielam wrote:
| I take the quotes around "laugh" to indicate that the word is
| being used analogously.
|
| Laughter can be caused by the comprehension of an absurdity, a
| frustrated intention or by something that violates a norm. I
| would not readily ascribe this sort of comprehension to the
| aforementioned animals and would be careful not to
| anthropomorphize other species, as tempting as it might be.
| Aachen wrote:
| Exactly, the original article linked at the bottom makes it
| clear that ars is full of bs and these animals are just
| indicating playfulness, like one kitten playing with another,
| not amusement or (as you better put it) comprehension of the
| absurdity of a situation.
| pharrington wrote:
| Why would you think a self aware, fuzzy stealth killing
| machine has no concept of absurdity?
| danielam wrote:
| Concept implies abstraction and the mark of abstract
| thought is language.
|
| Karl Popper's four functions of language might help here.
| Language has an expressive function, a signaling function,
| a descriptive function and an argumentative function. No
| other animal besides Man shows any sign of the anything but
| the first two, but it's the second two that require
| abstract concepts. These animals may very well possess
| imagination, but imagination is essentially concrete. You
| don't imagine Triangularity, but rather specific triangles
| (though in human beings, by virtue of having an intellect,
| the image of a triangle is "accompanied by" the concept of
| Triangularity).
| nkoren wrote:
| Swimming by myself in the Sea of Cortez, I was surrounded by a
| pod of bottlenose dolphins. After observing me for a while,
| they suddenly started laughing, did a few flips and other
| acrobatic displays, and then swam away.
|
| I was left in no doubt -- none whatsoever -- that they were
| laughing at the absurdity of what I evidently considered
| "swimming".
|
| Maybe I'm anthropomorphizing them... but I'm pretty sure they
| were dolphopomorphizing me first, and it was cracking them up.
|
| Anyhow, those dolphins were a bunch of punks.
| meristohm wrote:
| I'm guessing more cetaceans will get on this list as we learn
| more about them. They might have a very dark humor after all the
| generational trauma we've added to their existence.
|
| For more, ethologist (animal-behaviorist) Frans de Waal writes
| engaging books (primates), as does Patricia McConnell (dogs),
| Jennifer Ackerman (birds), and Bernd Heinrich (insects, birds),
| amongst many others. Any you suggest?
| ecmascript wrote:
| My dog smiles when he is happy by showing his teeth. It is cute
| to me but some people think that he is angry because they
| apparently can't read his excitement.
|
| I just think it is really fun to see every time he smiles and he
| does it pretty much daily, often when it's time for a walk or a
| run.
| smusamashah wrote:
| On the other hand, how much do we know about "crying" in animals?
| redconfetti wrote:
| All the other animals just take things way too seriously
| m463 wrote:
| Maybe they just heard that one before.
| azemetre wrote:
| I use to feed the crows at my parents house in FL. One evening I
| toss some seeds and a crow tried to dive and pick up but crashed
| and tumbled. The other crows on the fence started squawking very
| loud and a few of them even mimicked the movement by fake
| crashing in the same spot. This continued for a good few minutes.
|
| Must have been the funniest thing they ever saw.
| hetspookjee wrote:
| This short story is so easy to visualize as some short cartoon.
| Great story, thanks for sharing.
| bloak wrote:
| FL is Florida, so Corvus brachyrhynchos? Someone should do a
| scientific study of the sense of humour of different Corvus
| species. It might be worth an Ig Nobel Prize.
| bluedays wrote:
| That's 65 species that we know of, so far.
| lovemenot wrote:
| >> To reach this number ... searched ... for any mention of
| animals making noises during play sessions
|
| Too arbitrary to search only for audible laughter. As though
| laughter were inconceivable amongst say humans without the
| capacity for vocalisation.
|
| I would characterise laughter as a patterned break in any
| measurable intra-species communication channel. Immediately
| followed by reestablished communication at lowered tension.
| Laughter has to be cathartic.
|
| Not easy to get enough big data, and labelling those patterns
| would be problematic. Yet it could be feasible. I imagine that
| we'd eventually be remarking upon species that lacked laughter as
| being exceptional.
|
| Such an approach might help address long-term failures such as
| dolphin NLP. Rather than aiming to solve an entire species,
| instead aim to solve common communication patterns across many
| species.
| Aachen wrote:
| Number one question when reading this headline: which animals are
| in the list? Number two question: what does a laughing bird even
| look like? What do they laugh at? You want to see it, of course.
| There's none of that, bit of a disappointing article.
|
| On the bright side, the article this article is about seems to
| contain at least the list of animals, see table 1:
| https://arstechnica.com/science/2021/05/from-apes-to-birds-t...
|
| This table of 65 animals is "play vocalizations", though, and
| includes animals like domestic cats and dogs. I've never seen a
| cat laugh at a situation, in real life or on the Internet, so it
| seems this arstecchnica article about "laughing animals" should
| be taken with a few grains of salt and is really more about
| playing and making a noise to indicate that they're playing (and
| shouldn't feel attacked) to their playmates.
|
| I do like that humans are categorized with the great apes.
| cs2818 wrote:
| Not an example from the wild, but our parrot (a caique) likes
| to laugh when he accomplishes a goal or encounters an
| unexpected challenge. I'm sure a lot of his use of laughter
| stems from living with humans though.
| sroussey wrote:
| I have a caique that has a dark sense of humor. He laughs
| when he hears a put down or when something bad happens. His
| timing is hilarious.
| underwater wrote:
| We have a cat they we allow outside sometimes. She doesn't have
| a sense of humour, but the local birds certainly act
| differently when she's outside. They sit just out of reach and
| squawk loudly at her. It doesn't seem to be a fear response. It
| could be a defensive mechanism of actively and continually
| watching the potential threat. But in my mind they're taunting
| and laughing at her.
| monkeybutton wrote:
| There are bird species that use alarm calls to alert the
| presence of predators [1,2], some (including blue jays,
| another corvidae) even exhibit mobbing behaviour and will
| gang up (cooperating with other species!) to attack the
| predator [3].
|
| [1] https://www.bl.uk/the-language-of-birds/articles/alarm-
| and-m...
|
| [2] https://www.nationalgeographic.com/animals/article/nuthat
| che...
|
| [3] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobbing_(animal_behavior)
| jb775 wrote:
| Here's the url for the list:
| https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/figure/10.1080/09524622.2021...
| abruzzi wrote:
| My pet parrot definitly laughs. It sounds like a staccato
| clucking sound. He usually does it when he's lying on my belly
| playing with me. He lays on his back, both feet grabbing my
| finger (or fingers) and play-biting my finger with his beak.
| I've gotten to where I can do a pretty good imitation which I
| do when he's clearly playing. (he does sometimes get too
| agressive in his play, and I usually stop clucking when he
| pushes too far, but I doubt that registers with him.)
|
| EDIT: Just for completeness, he's a Mitered Conure. Conure's
| are probably the most gregarious parrots I've encountered.
| isoskeles wrote:
| Linking the image / table referenced:
| https://www.tandfonline.com/na101/home/literatum/publisher/t...
| mojomark wrote:
| >>>laughter usually communicates something along the lines of
| "this is playtime--I'm not actually going for your throat."
|
| Sometimes, when hosting a meeting, I find myself laughing through
| a sentance when there's really nothing funny at all. I wonder to
| myself "what the hell was that?".
|
| According to this article, it's probably my subconscious/instinct
| trying to put the audiance at ease or make the subject matter
| more "playful" than dry business and communicate that "it's OK to
| communicate freely - you're not going to be reprimanded".
|
| However, that can also have reverse consequences when people
| subconsciously over-react and interpret that laugh that you think
| the subject work is a game and not serious, or that your role is
| a bit of a joke and they don't have to take you seriously. I will
| definitely keep this in mind going forward and try to control
| that awkward trait.
| slothtrop wrote:
| Some people, like my wife, will laugh a bit too often in formal
| communication, over banal things. If one didn't know better it
| would sound nervous. But I chalk this up to culture and
| upbringing. Apparently it's far less common in Germany to laugh
| after saying things, let alone your own jokes.
|
| It's as you say, some people work hard to ensure everyone else
| feels at ease.
| mankyd wrote:
| Coming from the opposite direction, there is a theory of humor
| that basically says that what humans find funny are things that
| are not usually ok made ok.
|
| This is also known and the "benign-violation theory"[1]. Things
| are funny when they should offend or violate (even at some
| simplistic level) but don't. Someone slips and falls? It can be
| funny as long as we judge them to be mostly unharmed.
|
| Back into your context, and to reinforce what you said: it's
| possible you're instinctively trying to communicate that, as
| dry as the communication is, you're trying to add levity to the
| subject matter.
|
| [1]
| https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2018/03/funny-h...
| spockz wrote:
| Back at school we learned that the kind of laughter we do
| because someone slips and falls is because we are happy they
| are okay (stress relieve) and happy that it wasn't us. No
| idea about an official source but it stuck with me ever
| since.
| throwaway292893 wrote:
| Yes, humor and laughter is a coping mechanism.
| ilamont wrote:
| I've noticed in some cultures people break out into a giant
| grin when they are nervous or broaching a topic that makes them
| anxious. When I first encountered during a mild argument about
| something, I went from mild irritation to offended and demanded
| why the other person thought it was funny.
| bigyikes wrote:
| I definitely do this, but I had no idea that it makes people
| uncomfortable. Am from Texas.
|
| I'm trying to rationalize this now... I guess I think of it
| as tension defusing? Definitely going to be more cognizant of
| this.
| Rochus wrote:
| When they come across humans, they usually have nothing to laugh
| about anymore.
| mrfusion wrote:
| Just curious, does GPT-3 laugh? Can it write "lol" or an
| equivalent when it would be appropriate in a conversation?
| batch12 wrote:
| It is just exporting text based on a learned pattern, so if the
| training text guffaws, it will chortle in a similar way.
| kqr wrote:
| > laughter usually communicates something along the lines of
| "this is playtime--I'm not actually going for your throat."
|
| This is one of those things I read just before I had my first
| child, and I'm very glad I did. It made communicating with him
| easier -- him, obviously, not knowing English yet.
| mettamage wrote:
| Awesome little tidbit of advice, will come in handy in the
| future. Thanks :)
| [deleted]
| slver wrote:
| Unfortunately that explanation is too simplistic. You laugh
| while you mock someone and they're disturbed by that. We also
| have many cases of gangs beating up random people while
| laughing.
|
| We have phrases like "laughing at you" where the default
| assumption is negative, not positive.
|
| If laughter communicates "I wanna play", then laughing while
| someone is afraid, or sad, or disturbed actually communicates
| something very sinister: "I wanna play, and you're my toy".
|
| I suspect this angle is why in horror movies seeing playing
| children in odd contexts, or creepy dolls, or phrases like
| "wanna play a game" in Saw and so on is so effective. There's
| nothing more dehumanizing than realizing you're a plaything in
| the hands of a higher power that has zero regard for you as a
| life.
| hutzlibu wrote:
| I would say it depends on the laughter.
|
| Playful laughter indeed means "not going at someones throat"
|
| (unless very psychopathic behavior)
| [deleted]
| thrwaeasddsaf wrote:
| hehehehe
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Gx_jRfB-Ao
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txGd0CxCPq0
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQVhppRP4Wo
| philliphaydon wrote:
| I was at an open zoo in south Thailand about 8 years ago and they
| had an open field with elephants and zebras roaming together.
|
| A zebra walked past the elephant and the elephant whacked the
| zebra on the butt with his trunk. The zebra got a fight and
| jumped and ran off, which prompted the elephant to throw his
| trunk in air, throw his head back, and make a noise.
|
| I've always thought that was the elephant laughing at scaring the
| zebra.
| RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote:
| Was it laughter or a dominance signal?
|
| I have seen videos on YouTube where a bull elephant will toss
| or trample an elephant calf and throw their trunk in the air
| with the head back and make a noise.
| TooCleverByHalf wrote:
| We may never know...
| hutzlibu wrote:
| "Was it laughter or a dominance signal?"
|
| I would argue, laughter can be a dominance signal. The
| stronger laughs at the weaker one.
| vips7L wrote:
| My green cheek conure laughs at me all the time. Especially when
| he knows he's being bad.
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