[HN Gopher] Scarcity tactics can anger customers
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Scarcity tactics can anger customers
Author : tdmckinlay
Score : 54 points
Date : 2021-05-18 16:22 UTC (6 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (tips.ariyh.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (tips.ariyh.com)
| varispeed wrote:
| Why these things are not taught in schools?
| ortusdux wrote:
| I once encountered a shopping cart with a 5 minute timer. Didn't
| matter what you added, once you put something in your cart a
| banner with a clock showed up and started ticking. I was going to
| spend more on accessories than the base item, but once I saw what
| they were doing I paid a few % more elsewhere.
| jandrese wrote:
| Ticketmaster does this and it's really annoying because they
| then want you to type in all of your personal information while
| a clock is ticking away in the corner. The event isn't for 6
| goddamn months, you can give me more than 10 minutes to type in
| my entire life history that you demand for no good reason!
| KozmoNau7 wrote:
| The Scotch Malt Whisky Society recently put a 10-minute cart
| timer on their website, and I'm perfectly fine with that.
|
| For those who don't know SMWS, they're basically an independent
| bottler under the guise of a club. Everything they bottle is
| cask strength, non-chill filtered and natural color, which is
| how I think all whisky should be.
|
| You pay a yearly membership fee, which gives you access to
| regular tastings and other events, as well as access to buy
| bottles. Their sort of trademark thing is that they don't
| officially tell you which distilleries the bottles come from,
| so bottles are marked with a numerical code for the distillery
| and one for the specific cask. That means they can sometimes
| get casks from distilleries that are not too keen on having
| their name on independent bottlings, but the official reason
| given is that SMWS wants people to taste any given bottle free
| of preconceived ideas of what a whisky from any certain
| distillery "should" taste like. Of course, there are readily
| available lists mapping codes to distilleries all over the web,
| but the official pretense is kept up.
|
| Coming back to the shopping cart, the 10 minute timer is there
| because they may only have 5 or 10 bottles of a given whisky,
| so adding it to your cart reserves one bottle for you, until
| you complete the order or the timer runs out. For limited-stock
| merchandise, I think that's a sensible way to ensure you don't
| get an annoying surprise right as you're trying to pay, and to
| ensure that people can't just reserve a bottle forever and
| never actually buy it.
| vneur wrote:
| It would be great if hacker news could find a way to filter
| out advertisements... seems like they are getting more and
| more common?
| oh_sigh wrote:
| How is this an ad, rather than someone just providing an
| anecdote that is relevant to the conversation?
|
| OP surely is a bad advertiser if that is their company,
| considering they've been posting on hn for 4 years and this
| is the first time they've mentioned it. 2.25 years ago they
| said generally that whisky was an interest of theirs on a
| comment. That's it though.
| KozmoNau7 wrote:
| I veered into an explanation, because I wanted to provide
| context for why there is a limited supply and why I
| consider cart timers to be fair and good practice in such a
| situation, unlike when they are used as a pressure tactic.
|
| As another posted stated, if I were trying to advertise,
| I'm obviously not very good at it, my only connection with
| SMWS is that I'm a member and that I probably spend way too
| much money on whisky :-)
| dang wrote:
| What evidence do you have for saying that? The commenter's
| history looks normal to me, and the comment was relevant.
| Plenty of HN users go on about their enthusiasms. That's a
| good thing, as long as they don't do it excessively, which
| this user certainly isn't.
|
| The site guidelines specifically ask people not to post
| insinuations about this kind of thing. Internet users are
| massively too quick to read it into other users' posts, and
| it poisons the threads when they cross into accusing others
| based on nothing but imagination.
|
| Of course, if you're seeing actual evidence of abuse,
| that's different, and you should let us know at
| hn@ycombinator.com so we can investigate. Someone simply
| having different opinions or tastes than you is not
| evidence of abuse, though.
|
| https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
| twobitshifter wrote:
| The timer may be to deal with inventory issues. A denial of
| inventory attack exploits a site that uses carts to calculated
| available inventory. Sites which track item availability need
| to reserve the item for the customer when it is added to the
| cart. If it's not, the item may not exist when they checkout.
|
| Usually this works fine as only a small percentage of stock is
| floated in inventory, but if someone wants to take your store
| down, they can add many items to their cart that they never
| intend to buy and leave it indefinitely. If you don't
| periodically empty unused carts it will create a problem. It's
| possible that the site you visited kept a very small inventory
| and was suffering from these issues even without it being an
| attack.
| pitspotter wrote:
| The Consistency Principle can be annoying too when used
| exploitatively. I walked away from a gym membership once when
| they tried to charge a joining fee in the last minute.
|
| https://worldofwork.io/2019/07/cialdinis-6-principles-of-per...
| adolph wrote:
| Thank you for bringing up Cialdini. The scarcity tactic is
| documented in _Influence, The Psychology of Persuasion_. In the
| scarcity chapter he ties it to the "loss aversion" cognitive
| bias, although he doesn't label it as such.
|
| https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/28815.Influence
|
| https://thedecisionlab.com/biases/loss-aversion/
| PragmaticPulp wrote:
| This article assumes alternatives exist.
|
| Obviously, if you're selling a commodity product with readily
| available alternatives, your customers are simply going to order
| the alternative.
|
| However, scarcity tactics work extraordinarily well for a subset
| of customers. Entire markets have been built around artificial
| scarcity. A valuable pokemon card or baseball card isn't valuable
| because it's hard to print colored squares on to card stock. It's
| valuable because someone in an office somewhere decided that only
| 1000 of those cards should be printed, and all of their customers
| decided that the 1000 card limit makes it valuable. The majority
| of the population rolls their eyes and moves on, but it doesn't
| matter because their core audience believes in the artificial
| scarcity.
| rightbyte wrote:
| > Pokemon card ... artificial scarcity.
|
| It is not an artificial scarcity though. The seller can't print
| more rare cards, unless you were refering to Nintendo. I.e. if
| I am low on dollars there is no artificial scarcity of dollars
| just becouse the Fed can print more.
| im3w1l wrote:
| Pokemon card buyers are self selecting into a collecting
| competition. People aren't going to brag to all their friends
| about how they managed to snag one of the very limited rooms at
| some no-name hotel. They _might_ though, if you have some
| special gimmick I suppose, like if you cater to the crowd that
| sees travel as completing a collection of attractions.
| aequitas wrote:
| Another example of this (at least where I'm from) is kitchen
| salesmen. "I can only offer you this discount today." or "It so
| happens my district manager is in today, I can maybe arrange a
| discount if you are willing to sign now.". Stores that try to
| pull this trick are an instant no for me as I won't trust their
| aftersales if I can't even trust their sales tactics.
| fatnoah wrote:
| 100% agree on the "today only" being an instant "no" from me.
|
| Conversely, I've had a good experience with this. I was buying
| suits for the groomsmen in my wedding, and the salesman offered
| to hold everything until the following Thursday because there
| was a 15% off everything sale that day. He put them in a closet
| and I came in on that day so he could ring the sale and I'd get
| the discount.
| m463 wrote:
| That follows. I remember a hard-sell gym years and years ago. I
| was going to join anyway so I sort of ignored the "this offer
| is only good today" thing. But quitting when I moved away
| involved a bunch of nonsense like writing a letter to their
| main office.
| mywittyname wrote:
| I learned this lesson from the school of hard knocks; moved
| into an apartment I didn't really want because the price was
| only good for that day.
|
| Now I permanently associate exploding offers with long-term
| dissatisfaction of the product.
| hazeii wrote:
| That's one trick I've often seen deployed against the older
| generation (were salesmen more moral in the past?). I vividly
| remember a salesman getting quite angry because he was trying
| to slam my mother in exactly this manner, and my "well, we'd
| like to think about it" really pi*ed him off.
| aequitas wrote:
| The getting angry is just another sales tactic if the first
| one doesn't work. I've had one salesmen try that on me as
| well. I just set there kind of laughing at the show he was
| pulling of, but my girlfriend felt genuine threatened.
| FalconSensei wrote:
| > The getting angry is just another sales tactic if the
| first one doesn't work.
|
| WTF? I would never buy anything from someone who's getting
| angry at me. If the sales experience is that bad, what can
| I expect from customer support later? Threaten me not to
| open any support ticket?
| aequitas wrote:
| Well, if I didn't have the life experience I had by then
| I might have been pushed into the sale. He also tried to
| make me feel guilty about wasting his time (1,5 hours)
| talking through and drawing up a kitchen plan for us.
| Which is why I could laugh at the whole situation,
| because it's his risk for trying to get a sale. And if
| his kitchen drawing services where that good he should
| have made an agreement before spending his valuable time
| with us. But I doubt anyone would visit that place if he
| did.
| fouric wrote:
| > getting angry is just another sales tactic
|
| That's legitimately horrifying. I've never had the
| misfortune of experiencing it, but now I know - if a
| salesman ever tries to pull that tactic on me, then instant
| threat to call the police.
| perl4ever wrote:
| I don't know if it's a tactic. I think it may be common
| for salespeople to be...weird, because it seems logical
| if the barrier for entry is low, if they're on
| commission.
|
| I was at a Honda dealer once, having owned Honda and
| Acura cars in the past, and thinking about a hybrid. I
| said something to the salesman about Honda hybrid
| drivetrains being second rate, engineering wise, compared
| to Toyota, even though I generally liked Honda vehicles
| in other respects.
|
| I was startled when he seemed to take it really
| personally. It didn't seem like he was just acting angry
| - I can't see what the use of that would be.
| manchego wrote:
| I had this experience with a language learning app recently.
| The premium content (which I was interested in) was $30. But
| for the first half hour after app install the price was $20.
| There was a banner with a countdown timer for that 30 minutes.
| And lo and behold, the same banner popped up again a few days
| later. I don't know whether or not the technique is effective,
| but it sure annoys me.
| MattGaiser wrote:
| I fell for it on Udemy a couple times when I was new to the
| site. I bought courses just in case the discount was not
| available when I needed it. Worked on me.
| monkeybutton wrote:
| Worked, but will it again?
| rightbyte wrote:
| My mother falls for it. She gets stressed by the "sale for
| just X minutes more" -- eventhough I said it is mostly a
| scam.
| moshmosh wrote:
| These get an instant "no" from me. I don't care how good the
| offer is. If you try to keep me from thinking about my options,
| I'm not inclined to do business with you. Salespeople take me
| from "maybe today" to "absolutely not today" with this tactic,
| though I must be in the minority, since they keep doing it.
|
| Plus if I reflect and later decide I do want what you're
| offering, then I know your "full" price is bullshit and your
| "special" rate probably is too, so I'll come in negotiating
| hard, both because I've learned something about your prices and
| because now I kinda don't like you.
| aequitas wrote:
| > If you try to keep me from thinking about my options, I'm
| not inclined to do business with you.
|
| I've also adopted the principle that if someone comes to me
| with an offer, it must be beneficial for them. This is
| especially true for door-to-door salesmen and utility
| contracts. Like they give you a big (like 50%) discount on
| electricity, but the gas price is where they get you.
| crowf wrote:
| well then you may be missing out on some great deals. when I
| was searching for an apartment to rent I found a great place,
| but I wanted some time to think about it. the landlord said
| that they won't hold it for me and that they were showing it
| to someone else the next day. I chose to take apartment and I
| am really glad that I chose it.
| moshmosh wrote:
| Real estate's different, obviously, especially in this
| market. It's not the same when time _actually is_ a factor.
|
| Salespeople pull this crap with all kinds of things that
| don't really have any actual time-pressure on them, though.
| Home remodeling, various services, unremarkable (that is:
| not unique or highly in-demand) cars. In fact, "we're
| running a special that'll get you 10% off if you sign
| today" is usually a strong indicator that I can ask for
| 15-20% off _tomorrow_ and get it. If that kind of
| salesperson offers you a "deal" unprompted, then that
| "deal" is actually their price for suckers. I hate that
| kind of thing, don't like being manipulated, and don't like
| it when scummy salespeople win. So I'll either look
| somewhere else or take that newfound knowledge and ask for
| something better than the "special", on my own timeline,
| not the salesperson's.
| aequitas wrote:
| I've actually had some good experience with a salesman
| where he told me there was a limited offer, but if I
| could wait they would have a different offer next month,
| just on a different brand of equipment. Still not fully
| transparent but at least a little more honest.
|
| We eventually settled on a IKEA kitchen, just because
| they are fully transparent and offered what we needed,
| with no pressure or tricks. And I got the chance to build
| my own kitchen, which was a nice experience. If it was
| not for their limited choice of options they would be the
| only contender for our next kitchen.
| FalconSensei wrote:
| > I've actually had some good experience with a salesman
| where he told me there was a limited offer, but if I
| could wait they would have a different offer next month,
| just on a different brand of equipment. Still not fully
| transparent but at least a little more honest.
|
| I think that's good. They can't promise you any upcoming
| sale as they don't get to decide on that, but they know
| the sales generally come up on X day of the month/week.
| willcipriano wrote:
| You so sure that the "someone else" actually existed? I've
| successfully called that bluff in the past.
|
| It's like when you interview for a new job and ask you if
| you are interviewing with anyone else, why would you ever
| say no?
| chias wrote:
| I _was_ that someone else, toured right as the other
| family was leaving. I decided I liked the place and told
| the landlord that if he was willing to have an awkward
| conversation with that other family tomorrow, I would
| sign immediately.
|
| But yeah like moshmosh said, real estate is different.
| Anything where you are vying for exactly one of a thing
| is a different beast than whatever crap you SAAS vendor
| is trying to tell you.
| bluGill wrote:
| Even if the other person doesn't, in many cases the
| someone else will in a few days. Real Estate is about
| making sure you have just enough vacancies and no more.
| Enough means that when someone comes looking you have a
| place for them, and enough vacancies that you can
| remodel/upgrade between - but no more.
| FalconSensei wrote:
| This is not related to the example on the thread. If the
| other person after you didn't want the apartment, you could
| still get it for the price they were offering you. If the
| apartment was overpriced and still on the market after 6
| months, you could get it for less.
|
| Also, real estate is an exception because:
|
| 1 - there is actually scarcity. A building with 200
| apartments only has 200 apartments.
|
| 2 - Some buildings are already (almost) full, so you can
| only get in when someone gets out.
|
| But what I see here where I live are offers that are valid
| for a whole month or two. Of course, if all units are
| taken, then you can't get it, but if they have an unit
| available, the offer is good
| NikolaNovak wrote:
| I feel you're not alone, it's just that - rightly or wrongly
| - they _seem_ to genuinely optimize for "Max sales I can
| squeeze in TODAY/RIGHT NOW", rather than "Max sales I can
| squeeze in overall". I mean, their whole incentive structure
| operates this way - neither salesperson nor their boss get
| commission or bonus on sales that happen at some other point
| in the future when you may or may not be there, and may or
| may not be the one to make it. This happens on
| macro/corporate level too - quarterly sales / revenue
| targets, future be damned.
| _ah wrote:
| I disagree, and think this could actually be a good overall
| optimization technique. If the product you are selling is
| overpriced (not a bad value per se, but maybe ~35% above
| where it could be) then the sales person should absolutely
| optimize for the immediate sale. You get to sell RIGHT NOW
| at a high markup, and any time you would invest later
| trying to close a deal at a lower price can instead be
| spent selling someone else at a high markup. There's
| obviously no opportunity to close later at a higher price,
| since by then the customer has had a chance to shop around
| and discover true market pricing.
|
| This works particularly well for large one-time sales where
| pricing information is scarce and the relationship is less
| important. Example: sales for replacement windows, doors,
| roofs, etc.
| aequitas wrote:
| Indeed, it must work somehow, or else they would no
| longer be in business. I think it also has to do with
| demographic. Some people are just easily persuaded by
| these kinds of offers, so if there is a hole in the
| market, someone will fill it.
| joezydeco wrote:
| Seen this in real life, too.
|
| A brand new ice cream place opened down the street and, since
| opening, lines have been out the door. 45 minute waits at minimum
| in the evenings.
|
| But there they are on social media telling people "it's a great
| time to stop in!" The first two replies were people stating
| they'll wait a month until the lines die down. Probably not the
| reaction they're expecting and maybe a fatal one if word starts
| spreading.
| oh_sigh wrote:
| "Nobody goes there anymore, it's too crowded"
| hazeii wrote:
| It's interesting how often on Amazon Prime I'll add one
| relatively obscure product to my basket on the promise it'll be
| delivered tomorrow, then add one more of the same and the
| delivery goes out for a day (or more).
|
| On common products though, the whole FOMO "Only X left in stock!"
| is just a big ignore for the sales tactic it is.
| arh68 wrote:
| > _We don't know how customers that do manage to buy a scarce
| product feel afterwards._
|
| I bought an instrument the other day, online. When I first saw
| it, it said 3 people had it in their cart. Maybe they were saving
| up, maybe they were waiting on a tax refund, I don't know.
|
| I feel kinda bad I took away their chance to play it instead of
| me. Anticipation destroyed. If it showed names & avatars, I'd
| probably feel even worse. Maybe it's different for truly mass-
| produced stuff, where the serial numbers are in the billions.
| Maxburn wrote:
| Am I the only one that sees stuff like this and thinks "yeah sure
| you do". It's a blatant high pressure sales tactic. But yes
| Thomas McKinlay is correct, it isn't helping your company at all.
| deathanatos wrote:
| I have had airlines do a weird form of this all the time.
| Particularly Delta, IIRC. "Only 2 seats left at this price."
| Which is already bad, since what are the chance that those aren't
| two middle seats half a plane apart? But then you click in to
| purchase, and there will be _zero_ seats at the listed price. I
| don 't know what the point was -- there was never going to be a
| sale, because the offered price never really existed, and it only
| ever serves to reinforce that I should have just taken the offer
| from SWA in the first place, because they continue to be the
| airline that screws with me the least...
| NullPrefix wrote:
| Only a few left? Well I don't really need it that much, I'm not
| an asshole so I better leave them for someone who actually needs
| them.
| Animats wrote:
| That's a big problem with Kickstarter items. If the initial batch
| is tiny, buyers may think "they'll never get this into
| production" and avoid buying some hand-made prototype that might
| not work.
| matheusmoreira wrote:
| Underhanded marketing tactics anger people? Of course they do.
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