[HN Gopher] Yoga and Breathing Exercises Aid Children with ADHD ...
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       Yoga and Breathing Exercises Aid Children with ADHD to Focus
        
       Author : whereistimbo
       Score  : 122 points
       Date   : 2021-05-17 14:16 UTC (8 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (neurosciencenews.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (neurosciencenews.com)
        
       | aantix wrote:
       | You're trying to calm the central nervous system.
       | 
       | Magnesium deficiency should be part of this discussion.
        
       | amirkdv wrote:
       | The power of breathing over mind/body regulation seems highly
       | underrated, in the West at least.
       | 
       | I certainly knew nothing about it until I read this feature
       | article [0][1] and the resources it pointed to.
       | 
       | [0]
       | https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2020/jul/26/every-b...
       | 
       | [1] HN thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23962638
        
       | sarabad2021 wrote:
       | Not so sure about the Yoga (easily subbed with cardio) but I can
       | see breathing exercises helping. That said, I would like to see
       | these kids just having less screen time and more outdoor activity
       | and compare the results to this study.
        
       | hn8788 wrote:
       | I wonder if the increase in ADHD diagnoses can be tied to school
       | becoming more focused on sitting still in a room for a long
       | period of time. At least for me, I was doing really well in
       | school when classes were ~50 minutes, and some included phsical
       | activity like shop class and home economics. In my junior year of
       | high school, they switched classes to 90 minutes, you took
       | different classes on different days, and none of my classes
       | included physical activities. My grades plummeted after the
       | switch, and I ended up getting diagnosed with ADD when I was
       | struggling with college in my mid-20s.
        
         | drdunks wrote:
         | Very similar story here. Received diagnosis + transferred away
         | from 90min block schedule and my grades immediately improved.
         | Also that year, operation for deviated septum due to
         | basketball. I wonder how much of ADHD diagnosis was due to not
         | getting quality sleep at night during informative years.
        
           | sheer_audacity wrote:
           | Speaking as someone with ADHD that is being studied by a big
           | international university- adhd has a huge sleep disorder
           | component. Your septum will have contributed, but generally
           | people with adhd have problems sleeping due to dopamine
           | regulation during the day.
        
         | decasteve wrote:
         | I've had a similar thought: what consequences might there be
         | from years of institutional classroom based learning on human
         | development? Are there similar rates of ADHD in non-
         | institutional learning? How do homeschooled kids, alternative
         | education, or remote bush/tribal people compare?
        
         | zozbot234 wrote:
         | 90 minutes sitting still sounds way too long even in a non-
         | school, working environment. You aren't allowed a mid-session 5
         | minute break?
        
           | antihero wrote:
           | That is absolutely insane. Why would people do that? I
           | struggle to stay focused for an hour let alone 90 mins.
        
             | zozbot234 wrote:
             | > I struggle to stay focused for an hour let alone 90 mins.
             | 
             | Join a meditation retreat! It's not just about helping you
             | awaken your inner kundalini, it'll also mitigate any
             | possible ADHD!
        
         | loceng wrote:
         | In part sure but making anyone focus on something they're not
         | naturally interested in in that moment is going to cause
         | inattention that they'll have to fight to focus; it could also
         | easily be food they're eating causing the ADHD as well.
        
         | 908B64B197 wrote:
         | This is especially true for boys.
        
           | sheer_audacity wrote:
           | It's true for all genders. Girls with things like adhd and
           | autism are generally over policed in their behaviour compared
           | to boys.
        
       | pmlnr wrote:
       | "clear your mind" practiced for milennias clears your mind, who
       | would have thiught?
        
       | vekker wrote:
       | That doesn't surprise me in the slightest.
       | 
       | Learning the Wim Hof breathing method changed my life for the
       | better. And this is not meant as an advertisement for his
       | business; you can find the same technique (with or without
       | branding) for free everywhere online. I highly, highly recommend
       | trying it out.
       | 
       | Whenever I feel scatter-brained, lack focus or creativity, when
       | I'm feeling down, (or just feel like it) ... this is my go-to
       | method. ~20 minutes of controlled, intermittent hypoxia. Not to
       | mention it's an excellent "tool" to have in psychologically
       | and/or physically stressful times, such as after an accident and
       | being in a hospital (speaking from experience).
        
         | new_guy wrote:
         | Wim Hof is a bit of a joke, it's a western bastardisation of an
         | Indian science that's thousands of years old.
         | 
         | You're better going straight to the source:
         | http://www.yogebooks.com/english/atkinson/1903sciencebreath....
        
           | david38 wrote:
           | By this rationale, if I bring aspirin to some tribe that
           | never had it, I'm a joke?
        
             | carapace wrote:
             | If you changed the name from aspirin to "david38's awesome
             | headache cure" wouldn't that make you _some_ kind of a
             | joke?
        
           | swader999 wrote:
           | I'm torn on this comment. The guy has done some amazing
           | things with what he's learned and he has helped a lot of
           | people. He also went many many years on this angle and only
           | recently hit the big time. But yes, he didn't invent or
           | discover these things, he repackaged them.
        
             | alexpetralia wrote:
             | "Everything is a remix"
        
           | zarkov99 wrote:
           | Does the Indian science couple breathing with cold therapy?
        
           | connectsnk wrote:
           | I know what you are saying and I understand why you are
           | getting downvoted. I dont know about Wim Hof but I hope he
           | has preserved the whole spirit of yoga and not just cherry
           | picked a few techniques. Yoga works on a much deeper level
           | than just curing ADHD if done in the right ambience. Even a
           | moderate yoga practitioner raises and expands their
           | consciousness from oneself to being coextensive with everyone
           | and everything.
           | 
           | Thats probably the reason why the author of this comment
           | feels that it is far better going to the source rather than
           | cherry picking a few practices.
        
           | antihero wrote:
           | I have a big yoga chart on my wall. It shows that Yoga has
           | been split and changed and derived from and iterated from for
           | many many years. Seems like a bit of a joke to suggest that
           | this specific iteration (if it even is that) is less valid
           | simply due to a name that is geographically different.
        
           | waihtis wrote:
           | If he manages to popularize something that is highly useful
           | for people and costs nothing to do, how is he a joke? I'm
           | sure 99% of the people are aware that Wim Hof didn't invent
           | therapeutic breathing.
        
           | [deleted]
        
         | connectsnk wrote:
         | There are millions of proponents of yoga today. Many have
         | combined various yoga techniques into different packages and
         | made huge businesses out of it (Moksha Yoga, Bikram yoga, Isha
         | foundation etc.) In doing so, each business has preserved the
         | spirit and ambience of yoga. We are all truly enriched by
         | theses business. There is nothing wrong with promoting yoga.
         | Yoga is not patented / trademarked to India. It belongs to the
         | whole world.
         | 
         | I don't know about Wim Hof but I hope that he preserves the
         | spirit and the ambience of yoga while imparting the knowledge
         | and also cites references and gives credit where it is due.
         | Yoga works on a much deeper level than just curing ADHD if done
         | in the right ambience. Even a moderate yoga practitioner raises
         | and expands their consciousness from oneself to being
         | coextensive with everyone and everything.
        
         | notdang wrote:
         | Just be careful with this method if you have epilepsy.
        
         | trts wrote:
         | Seconded. For reference, Wim Hof is derivative of Tummo, which
         | is quite an old technique and it's easy to find examples of how
         | to practice. But like you said it is pretty easy to get the
         | basics of Wim Hof free online without subscribing to his
         | program.
         | 
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tummo
        
           | eyeball wrote:
           | Can you post a link to the basics of wim's method?
        
             | ta1234567890 wrote:
             | https://youtu.be/tybOi4hjZFQ
             | 
             | You can also download the Wim Hof app for free, which has a
             | feature to guide you through the breathing exercise in a
             | more personalized way.
        
               | eyeball wrote:
               | Thank you
        
         | DesiLurker wrote:
         | Wim hof seems derivative of some yogic breathing practices that
         | have existed for a while. I have learned one of them (and then
         | another one at a later stage in my life for migraines) and can
         | vouch for good long term effects for either one, they are: 1)
         | Sudarshan Kriya by Art of Living foundation 2) Shambhavi kriya
         | by Isha foundation
         | 
         | IMO both of these are better integrated with pranayam.
        
       | allenrb wrote:
       | While I absolutely believe that breathing techniques can be
       | beneficial for ADHD (I've got it, and our almost-7 y/o daughter
       | does, too), the mechanism posited here seems... questionable.
       | 
       | One region of the brain getting more oxygen? If that were the
       | explanation, surely other regions of the brain would be
       | performing poorly due to insufficient oxygen as well. And
       | further, taking oxygen might be expected to yield improvements.
       | Is any of that the case?
        
       | 0xcde4c3db wrote:
       | > "For children with ADHD, as a rule, the part of the brain that
       | is responsible for the regulation of brain activity - the
       | reticular formation - is deficient," said Sergey Kiselev, head of
       | the Laboratory of Brain and Neurocognitive Development at UrFU,
       | head of the study.
       | 
       | This is news to me, and I'm having trouble finding any good
       | sources that talk about it. Anyone have any suggestions?
        
         | moshmosh wrote:
         | Our pediatrician told us that, too, but also said that
         | confirming it with scans costs mid-five-figures (in the US) so
         | nobody actually diagnoses it that way, but instead with surveys
         | and self-evualation and such.
        
       | interleave wrote:
       | As someone who used to 'self-medicate'[1] my (then-undiagnosed)
       | ADHD with breathing techniques and Yoga - mostly Hatha and
       | Kundalini Yoga - for 15 years I am - personally - very skeptic of
       | these claims.
       | 
       | Don't get me wrong, I still love breathing techniques and Yoga
       | and practice both on a daily basis.
       | 
       | But I DON'T see how stimulating your nervous system this way will
       | do what ADHD medication actually does: Inhibit
       | dopamine/norephedrine reuptake / increase dopamine/norephedrine
       | secretion.
       | 
       | In other words, in my n-equals-one world, the difference the
       | right medication has made in managing ADHD has been an order of
       | magnitude greater compared to regular, intense and consistent
       | breathing, Yoga and meditation.
       | 
       | [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=interleave
        
         | loveistheanswer wrote:
         | >But I DON'T see how stimulating your nervous system this way
         | will do what ADHD medication actually does: Inhibit
         | dopamine/norephedrine reuptake / increase dopamine/norephedrine
         | secretion.
         | 
         | Why do you assume thats the only way to mitigate behaviors
         | associated with ADHD?
        
         | nefitty wrote:
         | I'm in the same boat. I love meditating, and I have noticed
         | positive effects, but it is no comparison to actual medical
         | treatment. I think that meditation extends my capacity for
         | focus in one sitting, but it never helped with the "ugh"
         | factor, the actual push to do things I didn't want to do.
         | 
         | Medication helps with the latter part. Meditation helps me
         | capitalize on it further.
        
       | 1MachineElf wrote:
       | The link to the original research is not working, presumably
       | that's because it's "closed access" according to the reference:
       | https://www.clinicalkey.com/content/playBy/pii/?v=S000632232...
       | 
       | I wonder what criteria they used to measure the improvement in
       | focus. Was it the children themselves saying "yes, I feel more
       | focused now", or was it a test of the children's ability of
       | focus, or something else?
        
       | fasteo wrote:
       | For those - I was one - doubting that breathing can have any
       | effect in brain activity, you would be surprised to know that
       | voluntary hyperventilation is a common tool to diagnose
       | epilepsy[1].
       | 
       | My kid went through a battery of tests that included light - no
       | reaction - and hyperventilation - that triggered some jerky
       | movements in his legs and a clear alteration of the EEG readings.
       | 
       | [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6546426/
        
       | tacocataco wrote:
       | I got way into eastern spirituality in my 20's, taoism
       | especially. Not a religion, more like a way of life.
       | 
       | Taoists believe that the spirit and the body connect through
       | breathing because it is both a involuntary and voluntary action
       | at the same time.
       | 
       | Now that you're thinking about it, you're probably personally
       | controlling your breath, where before you clicked into this
       | comment section it was just happening naturally.
       | 
       | I read several books, starting with one written by a Westerner
       | and the later ones that were over a millenia old. All focused on
       | all sorts breathing exercises.
       | 
       | Even during love making, controlled measured breathing. Centering
       | yourself, focusing your attention/sensory tools inwards rather
       | than the outside world.
       | 
       | From my limited experience, I'd say if you're having issues with
       | focus it is a great tool to have.
       | 
       | If you want some book recommendations I can give them, just ask.
       | I don't want people to think I'm here to market anything.
        
         | alostpuppy wrote:
         | I would like recommendations.
        
           | carapace wrote:
           | Not the OP but I recommend Jonathan Star's translation of the
           | Tao Te Ching.
           | 
           | https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/292570/tao-te-
           | ching...
        
           | loopz wrote:
           | Art of Living have good courses.
        
           | rednerrus wrote:
           | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBVIhpaPs9o
           | 
           | Has had a significant effect on my life. Do it for 20 minutes
           | before you go to bed and see if you get results in a couple
           | of weeks.
        
           | wayneftw wrote:
           | I like this book, Getting Right with Tao -
           | http://www.beatrice.com/wordpress/tao-te-ching
           | 
           | A link to the free PDF is mentioned in the last paragraph.
        
       | falcolas wrote:
       | Sample size: 16 children between the ages of 6 and 7.
       | 
       | Not worth reporting.
       | 
       | Totally worth doing a few bigger studies before shouting to the
       | world that we're just not breathing right.
        
         | swader999 wrote:
         | Valid comment but take a week and learn Wim Hof breathing and
         | among the other benefits just see what it can do for your max
         | pushup score. Most people nearly double their result which is
         | extraordinary.
        
           | falcolas wrote:
           | Sure. I'll even be sure to follow it up with some Lavender
           | essential oils and a dilution of Arnica Montana.
           | 
           | Snark aside, your anecdotal endorsement of this breathing
           | technique could give some Homeopaths a run for their money.
           | Might want to ease up on the fanatical tone of your pitch.
        
             | swader999 wrote:
             | I only suggested you take five minutes a day over the
             | course of a week to try it to give you something real and
             | objective to consider for less effort than you've already
             | put into this thread. The breathing technique is all over
             | the web and YouTube for free.
             | 
             | Also, this way of breathing isn't something you do
             | continuously. It's just an exercise you do when you want to
             | realize the benefits. Maybe a couple times a day if you are
             | keen.
             | 
             | The guy climbs mountains in just his underwear and shorts,
             | can ward off a cold using his mind and this way of
             | breathing, held the world records for distance under ice
             | and sitting submerged in a tub of ice water. He teaches
             | others to do these things very quickly. Women want him and
             | men want to be him. I'm still not being fanatical ok? This
             | guy is the real deal.
        
               | KittenInABox wrote:
               | > The guy climbs mountains in just his underwear and
               | shorts, can ward off a cold using his mind and this way
               | of breathing, held the world records for distance under
               | ice and sitting submerged in a tub of ice water. He
               | teaches others to do these things very quickly. Women
               | want him and men want to be him. I'm still not being
               | fanatical ok? This guy is the real deal.
               | 
               | This sounds really fanatical, especially when you say you
               | want to give someone something "real and objective". Real
               | and objective is more than personal experiences and a
               | case study of 1. We need diverse, well-considered studies
               | in a controlled setting.
        
               | mousepilot wrote:
               | > We need diverse, well-considered studies in a
               | controlled setting.
               | 
               | well sure, for vaccine trials maybe. the parent's
               | suggestion is more along the lines of, "give it a try,
               | what could it hurt?"
        
               | falcolas wrote:
               | > give it a try, what could it hurt
               | 
               | The same can and has been said for essential oils, fat-
               | only diets, and homeopathic dilutes.
               | 
               | "What can it hurt" is a terrible justification,
               | especially in the field of psychiatric disorders.
               | 
               | "What can it hurt?" Alot.
        
               | mousepilot wrote:
               | Ok, I'll bite, what CAN it hurt?
               | 
               | Seriously, I didn't make a comment about essential oils,
               | fat-only diets or homeopathic dilutes. While you are
               | correct that the same CAN be said for these, you should
               | note that the same WAS NOT SAID BY ME.
               | 
               | I posted regarding spending 5 minutes a day on breathing
               | excersises.
        
               | swader999 wrote:
               | I posted similar. And the only thing I'd caution is don't
               | do the breathing exercise while driving or near water.
               | There's a rare potential to faint if you do it wrong.
               | 
               | And nobody is suggesting to replace existing approaches
               | for ADHD with breathing exercises. It's just another tool
               | to consider and try for focus or physical exertion.
               | 
               | The funny thing is there's lots of credible science with
               | Wim Hof if you care to Google. But what's the point when
               | it's so accessible, harmless and easy to just validate a
               | claim for yourself?
        
               | swader999 wrote:
               | Look, if you can do twenty pushups max then that is a
               | hard fact that won't change much over a week.
               | 
               | Now if through a breathing exercise you can go and pump
               | out 34 that would be extraordinary and something
               | impressive. I'm telling you that this kind of gain is
               | actually possible for you right now if you try it. Go
               | ahead, give it a try and report back.
        
               | carapace wrote:
               | He learned a few things and developed some of the mildest
               | "magic powers". That's nice, but let's not go overboard.
               | He's basically another foolish Westerner importing and
               | repackaging the _least_ interesting parts of an ancient
               | and potent body of knowledge.
               | 
               | In re: "magic powers": The word is "siddhi".
               | 
               | > Siddhis (Sanskrit: siddhi siddhi; fulfillment,
               | accomplishment) are material, paranormal, supernatural,
               | or otherwise magical powers, abilities, and attainments
               | that are the products of yogic advancement through
               | sadhanas such as meditation and yoga.[1] The term rddhi
               | (Pali: iddhi, "psychic powers") is often used
               | interchangeably in Buddhism.
               | 
               | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siddhi
               | 
               | The only important thing to know about these magic powers
               | is that they are a distraction.
        
               | swader999 wrote:
               | Nobody is claiming he's special or that he invented this,
               | especially him.
               | 
               | And yeah these benefits may in fact be a side effect and
               | not central to the whole spiritual journey you could go
               | on but that doesn't resonate a lot in the West and
               | probably closes the door to a lot of us if that's how it
               | is first framed.
               | 
               | Going at it this way personally worked as an intro and
               | has made me more receptive to the bigger picture you
               | allude to which is a place I never would have got to
               | without Wim Hof first convincing me to try.
        
             | zarkov99 wrote:
             | Your dismissal and snark on the parent is unwarranted.
             | There is quality scientifical evidence that supports there
             | is something to what Hof is doing. A quick google will show
             | that.
        
       | 2wrist wrote:
       | Quite interesting that. Thanks for the post.
       | 
       | On an aside, I have struggled with reading focus these past few
       | years I have found that when I read I get a jittery panicky
       | feeling like I need to stop and do something else. What seems to
       | help is, when that feeling occurs is to use diaphragmatic
       | breathing and continue to read, my focus is better and the
       | feeling subsides. I am hoping I can retrain myself to focusing
       | like I used to as I loved to read.
       | 
       | Growing up, adults used to say... "Remeber your breathing!"
       | Perhaps they were right :-)
        
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