[HN Gopher] Yoga and Breathing Exercises Aid Children with ADHD ...
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Yoga and Breathing Exercises Aid Children with ADHD to Focus
Author : whereistimbo
Score : 122 points
Date : 2021-05-17 14:16 UTC (8 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (neurosciencenews.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (neurosciencenews.com)
| aantix wrote:
| You're trying to calm the central nervous system.
|
| Magnesium deficiency should be part of this discussion.
| amirkdv wrote:
| The power of breathing over mind/body regulation seems highly
| underrated, in the West at least.
|
| I certainly knew nothing about it until I read this feature
| article [0][1] and the resources it pointed to.
|
| [0]
| https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2020/jul/26/every-b...
|
| [1] HN thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23962638
| sarabad2021 wrote:
| Not so sure about the Yoga (easily subbed with cardio) but I can
| see breathing exercises helping. That said, I would like to see
| these kids just having less screen time and more outdoor activity
| and compare the results to this study.
| hn8788 wrote:
| I wonder if the increase in ADHD diagnoses can be tied to school
| becoming more focused on sitting still in a room for a long
| period of time. At least for me, I was doing really well in
| school when classes were ~50 minutes, and some included phsical
| activity like shop class and home economics. In my junior year of
| high school, they switched classes to 90 minutes, you took
| different classes on different days, and none of my classes
| included physical activities. My grades plummeted after the
| switch, and I ended up getting diagnosed with ADD when I was
| struggling with college in my mid-20s.
| drdunks wrote:
| Very similar story here. Received diagnosis + transferred away
| from 90min block schedule and my grades immediately improved.
| Also that year, operation for deviated septum due to
| basketball. I wonder how much of ADHD diagnosis was due to not
| getting quality sleep at night during informative years.
| sheer_audacity wrote:
| Speaking as someone with ADHD that is being studied by a big
| international university- adhd has a huge sleep disorder
| component. Your septum will have contributed, but generally
| people with adhd have problems sleeping due to dopamine
| regulation during the day.
| decasteve wrote:
| I've had a similar thought: what consequences might there be
| from years of institutional classroom based learning on human
| development? Are there similar rates of ADHD in non-
| institutional learning? How do homeschooled kids, alternative
| education, or remote bush/tribal people compare?
| zozbot234 wrote:
| 90 minutes sitting still sounds way too long even in a non-
| school, working environment. You aren't allowed a mid-session 5
| minute break?
| antihero wrote:
| That is absolutely insane. Why would people do that? I
| struggle to stay focused for an hour let alone 90 mins.
| zozbot234 wrote:
| > I struggle to stay focused for an hour let alone 90 mins.
|
| Join a meditation retreat! It's not just about helping you
| awaken your inner kundalini, it'll also mitigate any
| possible ADHD!
| loceng wrote:
| In part sure but making anyone focus on something they're not
| naturally interested in in that moment is going to cause
| inattention that they'll have to fight to focus; it could also
| easily be food they're eating causing the ADHD as well.
| 908B64B197 wrote:
| This is especially true for boys.
| sheer_audacity wrote:
| It's true for all genders. Girls with things like adhd and
| autism are generally over policed in their behaviour compared
| to boys.
| pmlnr wrote:
| "clear your mind" practiced for milennias clears your mind, who
| would have thiught?
| vekker wrote:
| That doesn't surprise me in the slightest.
|
| Learning the Wim Hof breathing method changed my life for the
| better. And this is not meant as an advertisement for his
| business; you can find the same technique (with or without
| branding) for free everywhere online. I highly, highly recommend
| trying it out.
|
| Whenever I feel scatter-brained, lack focus or creativity, when
| I'm feeling down, (or just feel like it) ... this is my go-to
| method. ~20 minutes of controlled, intermittent hypoxia. Not to
| mention it's an excellent "tool" to have in psychologically
| and/or physically stressful times, such as after an accident and
| being in a hospital (speaking from experience).
| new_guy wrote:
| Wim Hof is a bit of a joke, it's a western bastardisation of an
| Indian science that's thousands of years old.
|
| You're better going straight to the source:
| http://www.yogebooks.com/english/atkinson/1903sciencebreath....
| david38 wrote:
| By this rationale, if I bring aspirin to some tribe that
| never had it, I'm a joke?
| carapace wrote:
| If you changed the name from aspirin to "david38's awesome
| headache cure" wouldn't that make you _some_ kind of a
| joke?
| swader999 wrote:
| I'm torn on this comment. The guy has done some amazing
| things with what he's learned and he has helped a lot of
| people. He also went many many years on this angle and only
| recently hit the big time. But yes, he didn't invent or
| discover these things, he repackaged them.
| alexpetralia wrote:
| "Everything is a remix"
| zarkov99 wrote:
| Does the Indian science couple breathing with cold therapy?
| connectsnk wrote:
| I know what you are saying and I understand why you are
| getting downvoted. I dont know about Wim Hof but I hope he
| has preserved the whole spirit of yoga and not just cherry
| picked a few techniques. Yoga works on a much deeper level
| than just curing ADHD if done in the right ambience. Even a
| moderate yoga practitioner raises and expands their
| consciousness from oneself to being coextensive with everyone
| and everything.
|
| Thats probably the reason why the author of this comment
| feels that it is far better going to the source rather than
| cherry picking a few practices.
| antihero wrote:
| I have a big yoga chart on my wall. It shows that Yoga has
| been split and changed and derived from and iterated from for
| many many years. Seems like a bit of a joke to suggest that
| this specific iteration (if it even is that) is less valid
| simply due to a name that is geographically different.
| waihtis wrote:
| If he manages to popularize something that is highly useful
| for people and costs nothing to do, how is he a joke? I'm
| sure 99% of the people are aware that Wim Hof didn't invent
| therapeutic breathing.
| [deleted]
| connectsnk wrote:
| There are millions of proponents of yoga today. Many have
| combined various yoga techniques into different packages and
| made huge businesses out of it (Moksha Yoga, Bikram yoga, Isha
| foundation etc.) In doing so, each business has preserved the
| spirit and ambience of yoga. We are all truly enriched by
| theses business. There is nothing wrong with promoting yoga.
| Yoga is not patented / trademarked to India. It belongs to the
| whole world.
|
| I don't know about Wim Hof but I hope that he preserves the
| spirit and the ambience of yoga while imparting the knowledge
| and also cites references and gives credit where it is due.
| Yoga works on a much deeper level than just curing ADHD if done
| in the right ambience. Even a moderate yoga practitioner raises
| and expands their consciousness from oneself to being
| coextensive with everyone and everything.
| notdang wrote:
| Just be careful with this method if you have epilepsy.
| trts wrote:
| Seconded. For reference, Wim Hof is derivative of Tummo, which
| is quite an old technique and it's easy to find examples of how
| to practice. But like you said it is pretty easy to get the
| basics of Wim Hof free online without subscribing to his
| program.
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tummo
| eyeball wrote:
| Can you post a link to the basics of wim's method?
| ta1234567890 wrote:
| https://youtu.be/tybOi4hjZFQ
|
| You can also download the Wim Hof app for free, which has a
| feature to guide you through the breathing exercise in a
| more personalized way.
| eyeball wrote:
| Thank you
| DesiLurker wrote:
| Wim hof seems derivative of some yogic breathing practices that
| have existed for a while. I have learned one of them (and then
| another one at a later stage in my life for migraines) and can
| vouch for good long term effects for either one, they are: 1)
| Sudarshan Kriya by Art of Living foundation 2) Shambhavi kriya
| by Isha foundation
|
| IMO both of these are better integrated with pranayam.
| allenrb wrote:
| While I absolutely believe that breathing techniques can be
| beneficial for ADHD (I've got it, and our almost-7 y/o daughter
| does, too), the mechanism posited here seems... questionable.
|
| One region of the brain getting more oxygen? If that were the
| explanation, surely other regions of the brain would be
| performing poorly due to insufficient oxygen as well. And
| further, taking oxygen might be expected to yield improvements.
| Is any of that the case?
| 0xcde4c3db wrote:
| > "For children with ADHD, as a rule, the part of the brain that
| is responsible for the regulation of brain activity - the
| reticular formation - is deficient," said Sergey Kiselev, head of
| the Laboratory of Brain and Neurocognitive Development at UrFU,
| head of the study.
|
| This is news to me, and I'm having trouble finding any good
| sources that talk about it. Anyone have any suggestions?
| moshmosh wrote:
| Our pediatrician told us that, too, but also said that
| confirming it with scans costs mid-five-figures (in the US) so
| nobody actually diagnoses it that way, but instead with surveys
| and self-evualation and such.
| interleave wrote:
| As someone who used to 'self-medicate'[1] my (then-undiagnosed)
| ADHD with breathing techniques and Yoga - mostly Hatha and
| Kundalini Yoga - for 15 years I am - personally - very skeptic of
| these claims.
|
| Don't get me wrong, I still love breathing techniques and Yoga
| and practice both on a daily basis.
|
| But I DON'T see how stimulating your nervous system this way will
| do what ADHD medication actually does: Inhibit
| dopamine/norephedrine reuptake / increase dopamine/norephedrine
| secretion.
|
| In other words, in my n-equals-one world, the difference the
| right medication has made in managing ADHD has been an order of
| magnitude greater compared to regular, intense and consistent
| breathing, Yoga and meditation.
|
| [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=interleave
| loveistheanswer wrote:
| >But I DON'T see how stimulating your nervous system this way
| will do what ADHD medication actually does: Inhibit
| dopamine/norephedrine reuptake / increase dopamine/norephedrine
| secretion.
|
| Why do you assume thats the only way to mitigate behaviors
| associated with ADHD?
| nefitty wrote:
| I'm in the same boat. I love meditating, and I have noticed
| positive effects, but it is no comparison to actual medical
| treatment. I think that meditation extends my capacity for
| focus in one sitting, but it never helped with the "ugh"
| factor, the actual push to do things I didn't want to do.
|
| Medication helps with the latter part. Meditation helps me
| capitalize on it further.
| 1MachineElf wrote:
| The link to the original research is not working, presumably
| that's because it's "closed access" according to the reference:
| https://www.clinicalkey.com/content/playBy/pii/?v=S000632232...
|
| I wonder what criteria they used to measure the improvement in
| focus. Was it the children themselves saying "yes, I feel more
| focused now", or was it a test of the children's ability of
| focus, or something else?
| fasteo wrote:
| For those - I was one - doubting that breathing can have any
| effect in brain activity, you would be surprised to know that
| voluntary hyperventilation is a common tool to diagnose
| epilepsy[1].
|
| My kid went through a battery of tests that included light - no
| reaction - and hyperventilation - that triggered some jerky
| movements in his legs and a clear alteration of the EEG readings.
|
| [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6546426/
| tacocataco wrote:
| I got way into eastern spirituality in my 20's, taoism
| especially. Not a religion, more like a way of life.
|
| Taoists believe that the spirit and the body connect through
| breathing because it is both a involuntary and voluntary action
| at the same time.
|
| Now that you're thinking about it, you're probably personally
| controlling your breath, where before you clicked into this
| comment section it was just happening naturally.
|
| I read several books, starting with one written by a Westerner
| and the later ones that were over a millenia old. All focused on
| all sorts breathing exercises.
|
| Even during love making, controlled measured breathing. Centering
| yourself, focusing your attention/sensory tools inwards rather
| than the outside world.
|
| From my limited experience, I'd say if you're having issues with
| focus it is a great tool to have.
|
| If you want some book recommendations I can give them, just ask.
| I don't want people to think I'm here to market anything.
| alostpuppy wrote:
| I would like recommendations.
| carapace wrote:
| Not the OP but I recommend Jonathan Star's translation of the
| Tao Te Ching.
|
| https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/292570/tao-te-
| ching...
| loopz wrote:
| Art of Living have good courses.
| rednerrus wrote:
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBVIhpaPs9o
|
| Has had a significant effect on my life. Do it for 20 minutes
| before you go to bed and see if you get results in a couple
| of weeks.
| wayneftw wrote:
| I like this book, Getting Right with Tao -
| http://www.beatrice.com/wordpress/tao-te-ching
|
| A link to the free PDF is mentioned in the last paragraph.
| falcolas wrote:
| Sample size: 16 children between the ages of 6 and 7.
|
| Not worth reporting.
|
| Totally worth doing a few bigger studies before shouting to the
| world that we're just not breathing right.
| swader999 wrote:
| Valid comment but take a week and learn Wim Hof breathing and
| among the other benefits just see what it can do for your max
| pushup score. Most people nearly double their result which is
| extraordinary.
| falcolas wrote:
| Sure. I'll even be sure to follow it up with some Lavender
| essential oils and a dilution of Arnica Montana.
|
| Snark aside, your anecdotal endorsement of this breathing
| technique could give some Homeopaths a run for their money.
| Might want to ease up on the fanatical tone of your pitch.
| swader999 wrote:
| I only suggested you take five minutes a day over the
| course of a week to try it to give you something real and
| objective to consider for less effort than you've already
| put into this thread. The breathing technique is all over
| the web and YouTube for free.
|
| Also, this way of breathing isn't something you do
| continuously. It's just an exercise you do when you want to
| realize the benefits. Maybe a couple times a day if you are
| keen.
|
| The guy climbs mountains in just his underwear and shorts,
| can ward off a cold using his mind and this way of
| breathing, held the world records for distance under ice
| and sitting submerged in a tub of ice water. He teaches
| others to do these things very quickly. Women want him and
| men want to be him. I'm still not being fanatical ok? This
| guy is the real deal.
| KittenInABox wrote:
| > The guy climbs mountains in just his underwear and
| shorts, can ward off a cold using his mind and this way
| of breathing, held the world records for distance under
| ice and sitting submerged in a tub of ice water. He
| teaches others to do these things very quickly. Women
| want him and men want to be him. I'm still not being
| fanatical ok? This guy is the real deal.
|
| This sounds really fanatical, especially when you say you
| want to give someone something "real and objective". Real
| and objective is more than personal experiences and a
| case study of 1. We need diverse, well-considered studies
| in a controlled setting.
| mousepilot wrote:
| > We need diverse, well-considered studies in a
| controlled setting.
|
| well sure, for vaccine trials maybe. the parent's
| suggestion is more along the lines of, "give it a try,
| what could it hurt?"
| falcolas wrote:
| > give it a try, what could it hurt
|
| The same can and has been said for essential oils, fat-
| only diets, and homeopathic dilutes.
|
| "What can it hurt" is a terrible justification,
| especially in the field of psychiatric disorders.
|
| "What can it hurt?" Alot.
| mousepilot wrote:
| Ok, I'll bite, what CAN it hurt?
|
| Seriously, I didn't make a comment about essential oils,
| fat-only diets or homeopathic dilutes. While you are
| correct that the same CAN be said for these, you should
| note that the same WAS NOT SAID BY ME.
|
| I posted regarding spending 5 minutes a day on breathing
| excersises.
| swader999 wrote:
| I posted similar. And the only thing I'd caution is don't
| do the breathing exercise while driving or near water.
| There's a rare potential to faint if you do it wrong.
|
| And nobody is suggesting to replace existing approaches
| for ADHD with breathing exercises. It's just another tool
| to consider and try for focus or physical exertion.
|
| The funny thing is there's lots of credible science with
| Wim Hof if you care to Google. But what's the point when
| it's so accessible, harmless and easy to just validate a
| claim for yourself?
| swader999 wrote:
| Look, if you can do twenty pushups max then that is a
| hard fact that won't change much over a week.
|
| Now if through a breathing exercise you can go and pump
| out 34 that would be extraordinary and something
| impressive. I'm telling you that this kind of gain is
| actually possible for you right now if you try it. Go
| ahead, give it a try and report back.
| carapace wrote:
| He learned a few things and developed some of the mildest
| "magic powers". That's nice, but let's not go overboard.
| He's basically another foolish Westerner importing and
| repackaging the _least_ interesting parts of an ancient
| and potent body of knowledge.
|
| In re: "magic powers": The word is "siddhi".
|
| > Siddhis (Sanskrit: siddhi siddhi; fulfillment,
| accomplishment) are material, paranormal, supernatural,
| or otherwise magical powers, abilities, and attainments
| that are the products of yogic advancement through
| sadhanas such as meditation and yoga.[1] The term rddhi
| (Pali: iddhi, "psychic powers") is often used
| interchangeably in Buddhism.
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siddhi
|
| The only important thing to know about these magic powers
| is that they are a distraction.
| swader999 wrote:
| Nobody is claiming he's special or that he invented this,
| especially him.
|
| And yeah these benefits may in fact be a side effect and
| not central to the whole spiritual journey you could go
| on but that doesn't resonate a lot in the West and
| probably closes the door to a lot of us if that's how it
| is first framed.
|
| Going at it this way personally worked as an intro and
| has made me more receptive to the bigger picture you
| allude to which is a place I never would have got to
| without Wim Hof first convincing me to try.
| zarkov99 wrote:
| Your dismissal and snark on the parent is unwarranted.
| There is quality scientifical evidence that supports there
| is something to what Hof is doing. A quick google will show
| that.
| 2wrist wrote:
| Quite interesting that. Thanks for the post.
|
| On an aside, I have struggled with reading focus these past few
| years I have found that when I read I get a jittery panicky
| feeling like I need to stop and do something else. What seems to
| help is, when that feeling occurs is to use diaphragmatic
| breathing and continue to read, my focus is better and the
| feeling subsides. I am hoping I can retrain myself to focusing
| like I used to as I loved to read.
|
| Growing up, adults used to say... "Remeber your breathing!"
| Perhaps they were right :-)
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