[HN Gopher] The True Size of Africa (2015)
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       The True Size of Africa (2015)
        
       Author : metahost
       Score  : 333 points
       Date   : 2021-05-15 18:22 UTC (1 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (kai.sub.blue)
 (TXT) w3m dump (kai.sub.blue)
        
       | williesleg wrote:
       | Nobody gives a shit.
        
       | kossTKR wrote:
       | https://thetruesize.com/ is a way better interactive version.
        
         | mxfh wrote:
         | But this is by _Kai's Power GOO_ Kai Krause. Doesn 't get more
         | random than this, if the most prevalent output of his getting
         | passed around these days is this comperative map.
         | 
         | For those who don't know his software, this was quite
         | remarkable UI and graphics software more than 20 years ago.
         | 
         | https://www.mprove.de/script/99/kai/index.html
        
       | stoolpigeon wrote:
       | One of the strangest feelings I've had is flying from Amsterdam
       | to Johannesburg. It's a super long trip and so mentally I was
       | expecting jet lag. But there was no time change. The season
       | flipped but the time of day was right in sync with everyone back
       | home in Budapest.
        
         | jobigoud wrote:
         | That's exactly why it's one of my favorite destinations. Take
         | off in European winter in the evening, land in summer in the
         | morning, no jet lag, beautiful landscapes, it's awesome.
        
           | dialogbox wrote:
           | That's also exactly same when I fly from Seoul to Sydney. 1
           | or 2 hours differences depending on daylight saving but it's
           | actually nothing.
        
         | jedberg wrote:
         | I traveled from San Francisco to Johannesburg. It was two
         | flights, one to Berlin and then on to Johannesburg.
         | 
         | The first flight gave us the usual jet lag going to Europe. The
         | problem was our flight from Berlin to Johannesburg left in
         | Berlin's evening. It's an 11 hour flight so the idea is that
         | you sleep on the plane and arrive in the morning after 8 hours
         | of sleep.
         | 
         | But that only works if your body is already in GMT+1!
         | 
         | So while everyone else slept the whole way, we were wide awake!
         | I took pictures of the navigation display the moment we crossed
         | the equator.
         | 
         | But man was I messed up when I arrived. 11 hours on a plane and
         | no time change is just so strange.
        
           | stoolpigeon wrote:
           | The two times I've been to SA it was for conferences and
           | normally they had been held in Asia. It was a completely
           | different experience going into them without some pretty
           | heavy jet lag. Everything was better. And I could see how it
           | impacted the people who had come from farther east or west.
           | It was super interesting to see it play out. I don't know
           | where we would have met this year - the pandemic took care of
           | that.
        
       | desktopninja wrote:
       | Refreshing to see how many times this pops up on HN:
       | https://hn.algolia.com/?q=true+size+of
        
         | username90 wrote:
         | Why is that refreshing? You'd expect HN people to not find this
         | map interesting and therefore not post it/upvote it as its just
         | common knowledge. Continent and country sizes are just a few
         | numbers that everyone has already seen.
        
         | mattowen_uk wrote:
         | Clickable link:
         | 
         | https://hn.algolia.com/?q=true+size+of
        
       | praptak wrote:
       | Africa has so much sand that it could cover the whole Sahara
       | desert and then some.
        
       | Tade0 wrote:
       | One of my early childhood toys was a little globe and I'll make
       | sure my kid has one too.
        
         | vmception wrote:
         | Globes are great for inquisitiveness, but they are often
         | outdated, with globes providers in certain regions simply never
         | updating them. Many globes in the US still have Czechoslovakia
         | as a country, let alone not having South Sudan on it, for
         | example. And let's not get started about all the globes being
         | Made in China and what that means for getting a perception of
         | that region of the world.
         | 
         | Owning a globe and giving it to a child is just a start.
        
           | bombcar wrote:
           | I have a soft-spot for USSR globes - though ones before that
           | are now arguably more accurate than the ones from the 80s.
        
       | init wrote:
       | Africa has 54 countries, thousands of languages and 1.2 billion
       | people.
       | 
       | As an African, whenever I see this map I'm more astonished by how
       | densely populated Europe and India are, how big and populated
       | China is and how homogeneous the US is compared to its size.
        
         | JackFr wrote:
         | When you say the US is homogenous for it's size, are you
         | referring to the physical geography or the demographic make up
         | of the population, or something else entirely?
         | 
         | (I think I would disagree, but good faith requires I actually
         | try to understand what you meant before I take issue with it.)
        
           | xpe wrote:
           | It seems to me the commenter is referring to the number of
           | languages and countries in a land mass.
        
           | dnautics wrote:
           | I think america is diverse, and shockingly homogenous given
           | its diversity. For example, chinatown in NYC does not seem
           | particularly different from chinatown in SF.
           | 
           | Yes, the midwest calmer and the south is friendlier, the east
           | is more uptight and the west is more chillaxed, and the
           | cuisine is different in different parts of the country, but
           | these are pretty much details at the edges. Everyone speaks
           | english, the low-end labor speaks spanish, african-americans
           | are discriminated against, etc.
        
             | djmips wrote:
             | Western chillaxation is put-on.
        
             | t0mas88 wrote:
             | To me (an outsider from Europe) the US doesn't feel
             | homogenous at all. Compare New York to Taxas or California
             | to South Carolina and they feel as much as different as for
             | example Germany and Spain. With the only difference being
             | that all US states share the English language and Europe
             | has different languages, but even that difference is slowly
             | reducing. For example the French, famous for not speaking
             | English 20 years ago now actually do it very well if
             | they're under 40 or 50 or so. And similar for Germany.
        
               | anthk wrote:
               | >eel as much as different as for example Germany and
               | Spain
               | 
               | Then you don't know Spain.
        
               | ulfw wrote:
               | None of what you write makes any sense.
               | 
               | Spain and Germany have hugely different history,
               | completely different food, different weather, they speak
               | two non-compatible languages sets (Romantic vs Germanic),
               | they have different laws, different stores, different
               | banks, anything.
               | 
               | Texas and California speak the same language, have
               | similar makeup of people, are similarly wealthy, they
               | have the exact same stores, your bank account is the
               | same, everything.
               | 
               | Now I am not argueing there aren't differences between CA
               | and TX. But those are similar to differences between
               | Hamburg and Bavaria or between Catalonia and Madrid.
               | German<>Spain is a whole different ballgame.
        
               | visarga wrote:
               | Don't want to interrupt this nice discussion but the head
               | topic was about Africa for once, and here we are talking
               | about Europe and US again. Funny we can't switch even for
               | a moment. I bet Africa sees a lot of this.
        
               | em500 wrote:
               | Probably the vast majority of HN readers/posters hail
               | from the US and Europe, most probably haven't even been
               | in any African country, so that hardly remarkable or
               | unexpected.
        
               | anthk wrote:
               | And even in Spain itself you have three romances plus
               | some alien language: Galician (closer to Portuguese),
               | Catalan (French-Occitan family), Spanish (and Andalusia
               | has it's own subdialect), plus Basque.
               | 
               | A Basque playing the txalaparta would look like a guy who
               | came from a UFO for an Andalusian guy playing Flamenco
               | with a guitar.
               | 
               | Ditto with a Galician with an Atlantic culture (and
               | Celtic customs) plus a obvious bind to Portugal because
               | 500 years ago they were the same language against a
               | Valencian living in the sunny Mediterranean towns.
        
               | dnautics wrote:
               | > Catalonia and Madrid
               | 
               | I believe those are what are literally called "fighting
               | words"
        
               | monocasa wrote:
               | Eh, the difference between those all will have more to do
               | with population density than their location. Rural New
               | York feels more like rural South Carolina than it does
               | NYC.
        
               | kcb wrote:
               | I think you may be comparing "apples to oranges" within
               | the US. When you say New York that includes a lot more
               | than New York City. I'm from New York City but have never
               | really felt out of place in Austin, San Francisco, LA,
               | Denver, etc. But far upstate New York would be a
               | different story.
        
           | init wrote:
           | As the other commenter responded, I'm referring to the
           | linguistic, socioeconomic and judicial homogeneity. Even
           | though the US is culturally diverse, it still has a single
           | currency, a single dominant language and a single
           | jurisdiction (with minor state specific legal requirements).
           | I only need one US visa to travel to all 52 states. A
           | software company taking payments in the US has access to all
           | 52 states. A peach cobbler is called the same throughout the
           | US even though the recipe might change a little bit from
           | place to place.
           | 
           | This is not the case in Africa or Europe, where countries use
           | different languages, scripts, legal codes, currencies,
           | driving directions, etc...
           | 
           | EDIT: I'm referring the land masses included in the
           | visualization and what they entail in practical terms.
           | 
           | The US can be seen as a single market, the same applies to
           | China and India. Europe has the schengen area, the EU and the
           | EEA. Africa needs similar initiatives.
        
             | js2 wrote:
             | Do you have any idea how many different kinds of sandwiches
             | we have in this country? You're just not looking at the
             | right things for diversity! :-)
             | 
             | https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2015/04/14/dining/field
             | -...
        
               | yurishimo wrote:
               | I love this! As an American, I think I've had most of the
               | sandwiches on this list at one point or another in my
               | life :)
        
               | msrenee wrote:
               | Good article. They rightly attribute the reuben sandwich
               | to the Blackstone hotel.
               | 
               | Anyway, I'm enthralled by the idea of a lobster roll. I
               | had clam chowder one time when we were in New England and
               | it blew me away. I ate the pint and tried to go back and
               | buy another, but my husband stopped me. I've had it a
               | number of times since back here in the middle of the
               | country and it doesn't even compare. Even in fancy
               | restaurants, it's just not the same. I really want to try
               | a lobster roll, but I have the feeling I'm not going to
               | find one around here that does the sandwich justice.
        
               | js2 wrote:
               | The lobster roll is really delicious.
               | 
               | I'm sure you're aware you had New England clam chowder,
               | And that there's also Manhattan clam chowder. But few
               | folks know there's also a Hatteras clam chowder. It's
               | made with a broth and the taste of clams really comes
               | through a lot better than with the cream or tomato based
               | variants.
               | 
               | https://blog.carolinadesigns.com/outer-banks-
               | food/hatteras-i...
               | 
               | (And now that I've worked my way to the Carolinas... if
               | you've never had shrimp and grits, look it up. Yum.)
               | 
               | p.s. as good as lobster is, stone crab is even better.
        
               | msrenee wrote:
               | Definitely New England clam chowder. I'm not sure I'd
               | like Manhatten style. You're just teasing me now with
               | this Hatteras style. I don't think there's a good way to
               | get decently fresh clams to the middle of the country.
               | 
               | I don't have a taste for grits. I finally came around to
               | gravy on my rice, but I'm still iffy on grits.
               | 
               | I'm holding out hope that there's a decent lobster roll
               | around here somewhere. You can get live lobsters here.
               | There's no real reason you couldn't do a good lobster
               | roll.
        
               | JackFr wrote:
               | I live in Manhattan and will defend it in all things
               | EXCEPT clam chowder. Manhattan clam chowder is hot
               | garbage.
        
               | whiddershins wrote:
               | Lobster Rolls have two styles as well, butter only or
               | with mayonnaise.
               | 
               | Really you just need the right roll, and you can make the
               | butter version yourself.
               | 
               | It's the roll that is hard to find.
        
               | msrenee wrote:
               | I did have fresh-caught blue crab when I was living in
               | New Jersey. Once I figured out how to eat it, it was
               | amazing. Fluke and striper straight from the water to the
               | oven. I don't miss the coast, but damn do I miss the
               | food.
        
               | jamnik wrote:
               | Like In France you have diversity of wine and cheese,
               | diversity of beer in Germany, not to mention Poland being
               | so kielbasa-diverse? Yep, diversity, diversity,
               | diversity...
        
             | carapace wrote:
             | Also, FWIW, I've read that Africa has more human genetic
             | diversity than the rest of the world put together.
        
             | eru wrote:
             | > The US can be seen as a single market, the same applies
             | to China and India. Europe has the schengen area, the EU
             | and the EEA. Africa needs similar initiatives.
             | 
             | Yes, but you don't need much international cooperation to
             | get a single market or visa free travel: individual
             | countries can unilaterally declare free trade and open
             | their borders. (And economic theory is in favour of that,
             | too.)
        
               | hrktb wrote:
               | You get an imbalance with free incoming trade but
               | taxed/impaired outgoing trade. Perhaps a massively
               | importing country can live with it if importers get
               | better deals as a consequence. But otherwise bilateral
               | arguments would be the long term viable approach.
        
               | barry-cotter wrote:
               | What imbalance? The benefits of free imports accrue
               | whether you're a big country or a small one. Hong Kong
               | did very well out of unilateral free trade.
        
             | [deleted]
        
             | manquer wrote:
             | Not taking away anything from what you said, my experience
             | has been a bit different.
             | 
             | I actually found US more federal in nature for doing
             | business compared to India and to some extent Europe.
             | 
             | The tax laws are lot more state specific than India,
             | California has very different rules for privacy(ccpa) or
             | environmental regulations than other states. Europe largely
             | following GDPR is good enough (with some exceptions for
             | Germany), most environmental regulations seem broadly
             | consistent across Europe.[1]
             | 
             | US did seem lot more regulatory diverse than India which is
             | more culturally/linguistically diverse,it feels like US
             | states have more significant autonomy than countries in
             | Europe have over EU regulations!
             | 
             | [1] It may be that I have not done as much work with Europe
             | as US so I have not yet come across nuances
        
               | eru wrote:
               | Try running a barbershop in France, Germany and the UK.
               | They are far from business homogeneous.
               | 
               | In eg Germany you need three years of government approved
               | training to work in one. And another two years of
               | government approved training to run one.
               | 
               | (And I don't think those training certificates can be
               | used for anything in other countries?)
        
               | manquer wrote:
               | Not saying regulations are lighter in the Europe compared
               | to the US , like the other poster below mentioned I have
               | usually found some mechanism for cross border
               | applications.
               | 
               | On a fundamental level access to free market and European
               | project has a goal of synchronizing the regulations
               | across member countries.
               | 
               | US states are proudly unique, Texas doesnt even keep
               | frequency sync to the national grid!
               | 
               | Even UK(Texas of Europe?) , generally need to follow
               | similar rules if they want access to common market brexit
               | or not.
        
               | Talanes wrote:
               | Barber licensing is done at the State level in the US,
               | and also varies pretty widely between states.
               | 
               | https://www.barber-license.com/
        
               | Symbiote wrote:
               | The training is often transferable.
               | 
               | Here is a link to a database of regulated professions in
               | the EU:
               | https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/work/professional-
               | qual...
               | 
               | A hairdresser in Czechia, with equivalent qualifications
               | from other countries listed:
               | https://ec.europa.eu/growth/tools-
               | databases/regprof/index.cf...
        
             | mateo411 wrote:
             | Everything you said is correct and makes a lot of sense
             | with the exception of the number of states. There are 50
             | states in the US.
             | 
             | Better luck next time DC and Puerto Rico.
        
               | nieve wrote:
               | That was pretty clearly a deliberate choice to show
               | solidarity with two parts of the country who lack the
               | same rights and government support for historical
               | reasons.
        
         | slim wrote:
         | America understood very early on the power of story telling to
         | build homogeneity. Medias are not just entertainement. They are
         | the back bone of a nation.
        
         | DevKoala wrote:
         | In which sense is the USA homogenous?
        
           | mgerullis wrote:
           | Language, currency, jurisdiction (to large extends), media...
           | 
           | An American from Idaho will be able to communicate, trade and
           | watch the same tv as someone in Vermont, whereas a person
           | from Malawi will not be able to do any of these things with a
           | person in Guinea
        
             | joshuaengler wrote:
             | You're comparing a continent with a country. A person in
             | Canada has very little in common with those in Mexico
             | and/or Panama, etc. The same could be said about most
             | continents.
        
               | mgerullis wrote:
               | I was answering the question how the USA are considered
               | homogenous, not how the Americas are.
        
               | lhorie wrote:
               | GP is saying that if you're comparing to the US, it would
               | make more sense to compare to e.g. Ethiopia (a single
               | country with several ethnical groups and languages) than
               | compare Malawi to Guinea (two different countries,
               | thousands of miles away from each other)
        
               | tedunangst wrote:
               | Vermont and Idaho are also thousands of miles away from
               | each other, a distance not achievable within Ethiopia's
               | borders. I think people are missing the point, so to make
               | it clear, in the US, you can move from Los Angeles to New
               | York (not even extreme ends of the country) and
               | experience the same culture, language, TV shows, cell
               | phone, etc. at both ends. That would be the same as
               | moving from Madrid to Moscow, or Lagos to Khartoum.
        
               | lhorie wrote:
               | Sure but if you consider that you could say the same
               | about e.g. Moscow/Vladivostok or Sao Paulo/Manaus or
               | Sydney/Perth, it doesn't seem like homogeneity is that
               | unique or impressive of a characteristic for an expansive
               | country. IMHO it's more notable to point out that there's
               | a language barrier between Toronto/Quebec despite them
               | being only a few hours away from each other, a form of
               | heteregenereousness that is also present in many
               | countries in Africa, whereas in the US, there's a
               | relatively high level of homogeneity even taking into
               | account highly international places like Chinatowns
               | because of the melting pot effect.
        
             | runarberg wrote:
             | As someone from Scandinavia I was surprised to to find out
             | that there is even homogeneity in brand names. In
             | Scandinavia if you from Denmark to Norway, you will likely
             | stop shopping at _Netto_ and instead shop at _REMA 1000_ ,
             | if you travel to Iceland, you might find your self shopping
             | at _Netto_ again, but it is a whole different chain (more
             | likely you will shop at _Bonus_ ). In the USA you will
             | probably shop at Safeway in New York, just as you would in
             | California.
             | 
             | In comparison all of Scandinavia has a similar population
             | size as the New York metropolitan area.
        
               | PaulDavisThe1st wrote:
               | Actually, the one example you've picked there (grocery
               | stores/supermarkets) is quite a bad one. There are very
               | few national supermarkets in the US. Ironically, Whole
               | Foods Market (now owned by Amazon) is as close as any to
               | this title. Safeway may once have been widespread, but in
               | terms of stores bearing that brand (as opposed to be
               | owned by the company), there are not many Safeways
               | anymore.
               | 
               | Instead, there are regional supermarket chains, some of
               | which branch out a little into areas where they are not
               | the dominant store.
               | 
               | Examples:
               | 
               | Albertsons: mostly in the western states
               | 
               | HEB: Texas only
               | 
               | Publix: southern states (all the way down to Key West)
               | 
               | Piggly Wiggly: hard to describe, but mostly a stripe
               | running up through the midwest
               | 
               | Fairway: NYC, NJ and almost nowhere else
               | 
               | Now, had you written that about, say drug stores, it
               | would be more true. Everywhere you go it will either be a
               | CVS, Rite Aid or Walgreens. There are independents, but
               | these 3 dominate the entire country, with some regional
               | focus, but always a national reach.
        
               | lhorie wrote:
               | Trader Joes has a pretty wide presence across the country
               | (in 43 out of 50 states). And while they're not
               | supermarkets per se, Walmart and Target have also got
               | into groceries in recent years. There's also Costco in a
               | similar boat.
        
               | degenerate wrote:
               | Trader joes is the best example of homogenous because
               | they sell mostly their own brand cross-country, so local
               | stock doesn't dictate what is available on the shelf. The
               | prices remain static across most of their stores as well
               | (for most items) which is a _HUGE_ reason why New York
               | and Cali folks love shopping there.
        
               | vitus wrote:
               | While Albertsons itself might be mostly in western
               | states, the parent company owns plenty of other chains in
               | other states, e.g. Safeway or Jewel-Osco. These chains
               | all run the same promotions, carry the same generic
               | brands, etc.
        
               | PaulDavisThe1st wrote:
               | Thanks. I didn't realize that the parent company of
               | Safeway had gobbled up Albertsons as well. Good to know.
        
               | vitus wrote:
               | It was actually the other way around. :)
        
               | bombcar wrote:
               | And there are regional brands in many areas - just below
               | Subway and McDonalds you'll find things like Culver's or
               | Jack in the Box or In-n-Out - regional. Gas stations and
               | restaurants are often regional, especially as cuisine
               | varies.
               | 
               | Of course you can find McDonalds everywhere but you'll
               | find those in Europe, also.
               | 
               | I think the main thing that makes it feel superficially
               | homogeneous is the shared language - which is now even
               | more shared since the advent of Hollywood and national
               | entertainment.
        
               | bluedino wrote:
               | Is Walmart not a national supermarket?
        
         | whiddershins wrote:
         | The US isn't very homogenous, it is merely depicted that way in
         | media.
        
         | jahnu wrote:
         | Population density of Europe is 34/km2
         | 
         | Africa is 45/km2
         | 
         | https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/europe-
         | popula...).
         | 
         | https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/africa-
         | popula....
        
           | init wrote:
           | I'm referring to the European countries included in the
           | visualization.
        
           | Retric wrote:
           | That really depends on where you draw the borders on Europe.
           | 
           | The population density of the EU is 105 people per km2.
           | Include some or all of Russia and things look rather
           | different. Similarly, Finland is 8% of the EU's land area but
           | only has 16.3 people per km2.
           | 
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_European_U.
           | ..
        
             | samatman wrote:
             | That has to be including all of Russia as part of "Eastern
             | Europe" (indeed, if you drill down into the data, that's
             | what's happening).
             | 
             | When we're talking about geography, you can't include
             | anything east of the Urals in the European subcontinent.
        
               | otabdeveloper4 wrote:
               | The Urals as a border is purely political and historical
               | in nature. It has no particular geographic significance.
        
               | bilbo0s wrote:
               | Huh?
               | 
               | In Geology class they teach that the Urals formed about a
               | quarter of a billion years ago when Europe and the Khazak
               | land masses collided. I know this because we had to do a
               | group paper on why such an old mountain range would be so
               | unusually high. (Long story and not important.) Point is
               | that though my degree wasn't in geology, and I'm only
               | going from memory, I'm 99.999% certain that the Urals are
               | the Urals for a critically meaningful geographic reason.
               | At least, geologically speaking.
               | 
               | Of course, if this is all just political, then you can
               | take any borders you wish to be Europe. I was only
               | pointing out that if we're talking about landmasses in
               | the geological sense, then the commenter was correct,
               | Europe clearly does not extend past the Urals.
               | Scientifically speaking.
        
               | Retric wrote:
               | In terms of geology it's all just the Eurasia pate.
               | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurasian_Plate
               | 
               | Europe has always just been an political/economic entity
               | as overland passage to Asia is difficult. Which makes the
               | border completely arbitrary with various historic maps
               | placing it in different areas.
               | 
               | That said plate technics is surprisingly recent, reaching
               | a fairly modern form and acceptance in ~1960's.
        
         | artur_makly wrote:
         | Check out these latest photos taken all across various USA
         | cities by NYTimes photographers:
         | https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/16/us/scenes-from-americas-r...
         | 
         | It's quite varied for a homogeneous country.
        
         | k__ wrote:
         | This is especially funny when I look at my home country
         | Germany.
         | 
         | It's one of EU countries with the densest population, but it
         | doesn't feel that way. Especially the east is very empty in the
         | countryside.
        
           | SiempreViernes wrote:
           | This is very much a question of reference points, I'm sure
           | even the Belgians will insist there are sparsely populated
           | areas in their country :)
           | 
           | Scrolling around on a map of Germany, I could find a forest
           | about 10 km across in the eastern bit that only looked to
           | have a few roads marked on the map. Go into northern Sweden
           | and you'll be drawing completely empty circles 50 km
           | across...
        
         | ZeroGravitas wrote:
         | A related map comparison that blew my mind and left me feeling
         | I understood things a little better, is East coast of USA vs
         | Japan:
         | 
         | https://photoguide.jp/log/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/JapanUS...
        
         | sangnoir wrote:
         | I'm always surprised to hear people say "The _world_ is
         | overpopulated " - I'm thinking there's plenty of room to grow
         | in regions that live sustainably.
        
           | EvilEy3 wrote:
           | Good luck living in Siberia.
        
             | fsloth wrote:
             | As the tundra thaws that place is predicted to be a massive
             | agricultural production area.
        
           | youtube__ wrote:
           | No, there isn't room to grow unless you're talking about
           | decimating other species and habitats. I live in one of those
           | densely populated areas, and see the environmental, social,
           | and political challenges of overpopulation every day.
        
             | peoplefromibiza wrote:
             | with the population density of NYC the entire World
             | population would fit in Texas.
             | 
             | the environmental benefits would be enormous
        
           | spankyspangler wrote:
           | Biodiversity is being decimated at an ever increasing rate,
           | oceans are being stripped of life, many minerals will be
           | mined out and become depleted and economically inaccessible
           | within a generation or two, fresh water is running out,
           | antibiotic resistance is increasing, long term chemicals are
           | accumulating in the environment.
           | 
           | That's all before you even talk about greenhouse gasses.
        
           | bandana wrote:
           | What would those regions be ? The Sahara isn't overpopulated
           | if you look at the density of population, but it can't really
           | sustain anybody. I'm sure there are some rain forests left to
           | cut so we can grow more food for 1 or 2 billions extra
           | people, but what's the end goal ? The world is overpopulated.
        
             | ClumsyPilot wrote:
             | What are you measuring to determine over or
             | underpopulation? Food production? We grow more food that is
             | required to feed current population, much of world's
             | farming is not efficient, done without modern equipment,
             | etx., and then there is the subject of meat - if we stopped
             | growing feed for animals, and instead seitch to vegetarian
             | diet, we could feed a lot more people.
             | 
             | Then there is the argument that glasshouses are 10x as
             | productive as open fields, so if we were to use them
             | predominantly, we could return land to forests.
        
               | e3bc54b2 wrote:
               | The _modern_ agriculture just means automating depleting
               | natural aquifers and using up topsoil and abusing
               | chemicals at massive scale. Its the agricultural
               | equivalent of optimizing for next quarter, but losing out
               | on next decade.
        
               | eru wrote:
               | How would greenhouses use up top-soil?
        
               | JPLeRouzic wrote:
               | Some places when seen from planes looks literally as
               | vitrified, for example in Netherlands.
        
               | em500 wrote:
               | One of the largest current national problems in the
               | Netherlands is the overproduction of nitrogen compounds,
               | mostly caused by intensive farming. There's more to
               | sustainability than CO2 and topsoil depletion.
        
               | ClumsyPilot wrote:
               | Ancient equivalent is slash-and-burn agriculture, and
               | famines from crop diseases and droughts. I dont think
               | modern vs oldschool juxtaposition is helpfull
        
         | birdyrooster wrote:
         | What does it mean to be an African? Is there unifying culture
         | of all of Africa? Like when I say I am an American, I don't
         | mean the continent, I am talking about living in the US, but
         | when someone calls themselves an African, what can I glean from
         | that other than they live on a large, heterogenous continent?
        
           | philipswood wrote:
           | As a fellow African I struggle to answer the question!
           | 
           | I find it interesting that your (valid to you and a commonly
           | used use case) of "being American" excludes Canada, Mexico,
           | etc. ... (actually all of South America).
           | 
           | There isn't a common culture.
           | 
           | I'm also acutely aware that my definition is extremely
           | unlikely to be shared in North Africa, Central Africa, even
           | in another province of my own country).
           | 
           | All that said "being African" parses with a lot more
           | emotional and ideological content than just geography.
           | 
           | There's a hint of pride at the grandeur and diversity of the
           | landscape and peoples, a dollop of hope for a brighter future
           | given our huge potential (despite our poverty we have so much
           | more stuff than many other countries), there's a dash of
           | injustice of colonial history and exploitation.
           | 
           | When I work with someone from Nigeria or Kenia or I interact
           | with someone who is effectively a refugee from DRC or
           | Zimbabwe - I can honestly say we seem to have something in
           | common with our feeling about Africa.
        
           | industriousthou wrote:
           | I think you'll find lot's of people from North and South
           | America would take issue with your definition of "American".
        
             | birdyrooster wrote:
             | Totally but they would also know I was just speaking of the
             | US. I don't have any frame of reference for someone who
             | says they are African.
        
           | slim wrote:
           | It's an identity. It attracts people who have it and repels
           | people who don't have it. With efficient communication
           | channels around it you can eventually build homogeneity. (I'm
           | African)
        
       | MihaiSandor wrote:
       | This map ( https://thetruesize.com )is very interesting, also.
        
       | scythe wrote:
       | There are three basic choices you have with a rectangular map:
       | 
       | - Mercator, which preserves shape and direction, but not size
       | 
       | - Gall equal-area etc, which preserves size and direction, but
       | not shape
       | 
       | - AuthaGraph, which preserves size and shape, but not direction
       | 
       | No rectangular map will ever be satisfactory, but maybe putting
       | all three together would make a good display?
       | 
       | And then there's my stupid projection (a rip-off of August
       | epicycloidal): https://postimg.cc/N5nZ18CF
        
         | gsich wrote:
         | Gall sucks, it looks vey ugly. If you want equal area use
         | Eckert 4 (fill the rectangle if desired).
        
         | scythe wrote:
         | Aside: this was meant to be a reply to this comment:
         | 
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27168589
         | 
         | Not at top level.
        
       | dang wrote:
       | Past related threads. Others?
       | 
       |  _The size of Africa, in perspective (photo)_ -
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7492708 - March 2014 (1
       | comment)
       | 
       |  _True size of Africa_ -
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7249832 - Feb 2014 (31
       | comments)
       | 
       |  _The True Size of Africa - Misleading Maps_ -
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6226458 - Aug 2013 (101
       | comments)
       | 
       |  _The True Size of Africa (2010) [pdf]_ -
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5790504 - May 2013 (44
       | comments)
       | 
       |  _The True Size of Africa (infographic)_ -
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1865958 - Nov 2010 (2
       | comments)
       | 
       |  _The True Size of Africa_ -
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1789769 - Oct 2010 (1
       | comment)
       | 
       |  _The True Size of Africa_ -
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1780004 - Oct 2010 (38
       | comments)
       | 
       |  _Strange Maps: Did you realize Africa is this big?_ -
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=366692 - Nov 2008 (51
       | comments)
        
       | Havoc wrote:
       | And less GDP than california somehow...
        
       | bombcar wrote:
       | It's only 6m sq km more than _North America_ - but a major
       | significant part of that is Canada.
        
       | dr_dshiv wrote:
       | Isn't this recent 2021 map fantastically simple and accurate?
       | 
       | https://www.theverge.com/2021/2/18/22289120/globe-2d-map-dou...
        
       | idatum wrote:
       | Projections can be tricky. Early memory I have in college: I
       | walked into my professor's office and she had a curious looking
       | map on her wall. It had Australia at the center and the US was
       | distorted and upside down.
       | 
       | As someone from North America (US) this was a nice lesson in
       | perspective.
        
         | xpe wrote:
         | Yes, I think more than one Australian professor have a similar
         | map on display. :)
        
         | robocat wrote:
         | A good page of examples with xcellent historical background:
         | https://www.flourish.org/upsidedownmap/
        
         | aksss wrote:
         | So too with a polar view of the planet:
         | https://www.grida.no/resources/7845
        
           | sandworm101 wrote:
           | Shh. We arent supposed to talk about those maps. The earth is
           | officially round.
        
       | dragonwriter wrote:
       | Why is the subtitle "a visual comparison with other continents"
       | here? It's not in the source, and the source _does not compare
       | Africa visually to other continents_ (except that one of the
       | smaller visualizations conpares it to Europe), but to individual
       | countries.
        
         | ohyeshedid wrote:
         | I share the same read. It's very much an apples to oranges
         | comparison.
        
       | axguscbklp wrote:
       | This reminds me of reading about Africa's size in the
       | introduction to Michael Crichton's Congo back when I was a kid:
       | 
       | "Only prejudice, and a trick of the Mercator projection, prevents
       | us from recognizing the enormity of the African continent.
       | Covering nearly twelve million square miles, Africa is almost as
       | large as North America and Europe combined. It is nearly twice
       | the size of South America."
        
       | pvorb wrote:
       | That's not really accurate. Madagascar, for example, is about
       | twice the size of Great Britain. That's without Ireland, but
       | still...
        
         | cortesoft wrote:
         | He mentions this in the article.
        
           | tome wrote:
           | He does but I can't understand his rationale. He claims it's
           | "just a symbolic image - it may as well have been just blobs
           | to tell the story" and "Had I stretched things to truly
           | properly show that though, then the whole shape of Africa
           | would have looked very awkwardly elongated." But why? One
           | could scale the outlines so that they have the correct
           | relative area whilst they preserve shape.
           | 
           | I think it's just a poorly-designed map.
        
       | paulpauper wrote:
       | becase why not
       | 
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FTQbiNvZqaY
        
         | djmips wrote:
         | ^ Africa video by TOTO
        
         | afterburner wrote:
         | Wow the audio is badly out of sync.
        
       | _Microft wrote:
       | "Kai Krause" is the one of "Kai's Power Tools" ("KPT") and
       | "Bryce" fame by the way.
       | 
       | https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kai_Krause
        
         | nfoz wrote:
         | Wow! Thanks for the heads up. Those were some of my favourite
         | softwares. Inspired design.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | mikestew wrote:
       | The edited title is incorrect, in that it is a comparison with
       | _countries_. How big is Africa compared to Asia? Okay, there's
       | one comparison with Europe (scroll down). Otherwise it's a matter
       | of how many countries one could cram in there. Of course, Africa
       | _already_ has a bunch of countries, so I guess I just didn't get
       | it. Comparing to, say, North America or something would be a
       | better visualization for me.
        
         | layoutIfNeeded wrote:
         | I think a lot of Americans think that Africa _is_ a country.
        
           | imtringued wrote:
           | That sounds more like a language quirk. For example, gas does
           | not refer to a state of matter, it refers to a liquid fuel
           | used in cars.
           | 
           | Calculus doesn't refer to categories of calculations, it
           | refers to infinitesimal calculus.
           | 
           | America doesn't refer to the combination of both South and
           | North America, it refers to a specific country in North
           | America called the "United States of America".
           | 
           | In your case they simply may have decided to just drop the
           | "South" from "South Africa".
           | 
           | I don't understand the logic behind these abbreviations so I
           | will never understand why someone would refer to a single
           | African country by "Africa" as a whole, but apparently that
           | is what some Americans do or at least it sounds believable
           | when you consider the 3 examples I have mentioned above.
        
           | umanwizard wrote:
           | What makes you think so? I'm American and have never
           | encountered that belief.
        
             | layoutIfNeeded wrote:
             | https://time.com/12990/africa-is-not-a-country/
             | 
             | https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2013/08/c
             | o...
        
               | torstenvl wrote:
               | > _there are rumors that a former Vice Presidential
               | candidate thinks Africa is a country_
               | 
               | Rumors, not facts.
               | 
               | One candidate, not "a lot of Americans."
               | 
               | Irony is making sweeping generalizations while ostensibly
               | pushing back on generalizations.
        
               | layoutIfNeeded wrote:
               | A candidate and a president (who's a Yale and Harvard
               | alumnus):
               | 
               | " One of the most famous blunders made by former U.S.
               | President George W. Bush was, "Africa is a nation that
               | suffers from terrible disease." President Bush, like many
               | others, misconstrued the fact that Africa is not a
               | country, but a continent."
               | 
               | https://sites.uab.edu/humanrights/2018/11/23/africa-not-
               | a-co...
               | 
               | But surely, it must be a coincidence! :)
        
               | ordu wrote:
               | _> But surely, it must be a coincidence!_
               | 
               | Coincidence of what and what? Bush is well known for his
               | blunders, so it is not such a coincidence that this one
               | is of his authorship. Or did you mean that it was
               | _American_ president who blundered this? How many other
               | presidents had a chance to blunder in such a way that you
               | 'd notice it? It is an important question, because
               | blunders of American presidents are carried to every
               | corner of the world, while blunders of a president of
               | Botswana probably isn't.
               | 
               |  _> A candidate and a president_
               | 
               | I pray, America is a democratic country, anyone could
               | become a president. ;)
        
               | samatman wrote:
               | Joe Biden recently said "white supremacists and Nazi
               | f*gs" while giving a speech.
               | 
               | Should we conclude that he was referring to homosexual
               | Nazis with a slur? Or did he mis-speak.
               | 
               | GWB was a rich source of flubs and boners. Deciding that
               | this one means Americans think Africa is a country is a
               | big ol' [citation needed].
        
             | alanbernstein wrote:
             | I'm honestly shocked to hear that. I've encountered it many
             | times.
        
             | ddxxdd wrote:
             | There's the fact that not many Americans can name more than
             | 3 countries in Africa.
             | 
             | And the ratio of people mentioning "Africa" rather than a
             | particular nation in Africa is much high than the ratio of
             | other continents being mentioned rather than their
             | constituent countries.
             | 
             | Also, "African American" is a common term; "European
             | Americans" not so much.
        
               | umanwizard wrote:
               | All of these imply that Americans know less about Africa
               | than other continents, which is true (and makes sense,
               | since Africa is the poorest continent and therefore has
               | the least impact on contemporary news, is relatively
               | unpopular as a place to visit, etc).
               | 
               | None of it implies that we "think Africa is a country".
               | 
               | > "African American"
               | 
               | Asian-American is a widely used term, too.
        
             | meristohm wrote:
             | I haven't yet found a reference site, but I remember then-
             | President G. W. Bush referring to Africa as a big country.
             | 
             | Edit to add: sometimes one important person's error gets
             | conflated with the assumed views of many.
        
           | tomrod wrote:
           | Coming from a background most would consider rough and tumble
           | in the US, this is true.
           | 
           | However, you're missing a bit part of it. Americans don't
           | understand governance models very well. Provinces are to
           | counties and states are to small countries. What does federal
           | map to? Mental model says next one up - continent.
           | 
           | I'd argue its not precise to consider Americans dumb, just
           | inexperienced outside our bubble.
        
             | layoutIfNeeded wrote:
             | >I'd argue its not precise to consider Americans dumb, just
             | inexperienced outside our bubble.
             | 
             | Indeed!
             | 
             | Funny, because others replying to my comment seemed to be
             | similarly inexperienced outside their well-educated Silicon
             | Valley / Ivy League bubble... :^)
        
               | tomrod wrote:
               | I can't speak for them. I don't know that many to have
               | any sort of reasonable basis.
        
         | darkwater wrote:
         | > A veritable shitstorm of responses latched onto the tiniest
         | of tiny details. People complained "you missed Ibiza", "how
         | could you make Belgium the same color as the Netherlands" "and
         | on and on and on...
        
           | NaturalPhallacy wrote:
           | > A veritable shitstorm of responses latched onto the tiniest
           | of tiny details.
           | 
           | For a second there I thought you were talking about hn.
        
           | joe_the_user wrote:
           | No, the parent makes a good point that stacking countries
           | insides different continents doesn't give one much of a
           | comparison. The visualization winds-up more "factoid" than
           | fact.
           | 
           | Africa is approximately three times the size of Europe, 2/3
           | the size of Asia, 5/4 the size of North America and so forth.
           | Obviously it's a large place but so is every continent.
           | 
           | Edit: This isn't to take away from the point that
           | historically, the size, importance, history and so forth of
           | Africa have been neglected. But it seems like this should be
           | dealt with more holistically than the infographic size
           | comparison approach.
           | 
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continent#Area_and_population
        
             | dleslie wrote:
             | The importance of Africa was historically neglected? I
             | don't think that fits well with the "Race for Africa" and
             | the long history of Mediterranean conflicts involving North
             | Africa.
             | 
             | Africa wouldn't still be recovering from the effects of
             | colonialism if it weren't as historically important as it
             | was.
        
               | [deleted]
        
           | Turing_Machine wrote:
           | The fact that countries and continents are two different
           | things is not a "tiny detail".
           | 
           | If you're comparing _continents_ , Asia is larger than
           | Africa, and North America is nearly as large.
           | 
           | If you're comparing _countries_ , the largest African country
           | is Algeria, which ranks 10th.
        
       | edem wrote:
       | If you find this fascinating try the intractive version!
       | https://thetruesize.com/
        
         | jalgos_eminator wrote:
         | Wow, this is a great visualization tool because it corrects for
         | the distortions of flat maps. Greenland is always so huge on
         | maps, but really its only a bit bigger than Mexico.
         | 
         | For people trying the website out, you can type in the country
         | then drag it around the world and it will change size based on
         | latitude (because of flat map distortion), but you can also
         | left click on the country, then turn it by clicking and holding
         | on the compass in the lower left. You can also change the
         | colors by double clicking the county.
        
           | zokier wrote:
           | > Greenland is always so huge on maps
           | 
           | Not quite always.
           | 
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equal-area_map
        
       | andix wrote:
       | Off course Africa is huge. I think it takes around 9 hours by
       | plane to get from Cape Town to Tunis. But Africa is extremely
       | diverse, there are so many different counties and cultures.
       | 
       | What impressed me most recently, was the size of Brazil. I flew
       | from Montevideo to Madrid and around one third of the 12 hour
       | flight you just fly over Brazil
        
       | prestigious wrote:
       | It's interesting as I always thought Africa is over populated but
       | then if the whole of France was the Sahara it would be over
       | populated as well.
        
       | gundmc wrote:
       | This reminds me of my favorite scene from The West Wing where
       | they talk about how misleading the Mercator projection is with
       | regard to the size of Africa.
       | 
       | https://youtu.be/eLqC3FNNOaI
        
         | tptacek wrote:
         | The alternative projection used in that episode is apparently
         | pretty bad too. (It's a great scene, though!)
        
         | igitur wrote:
         | This is exactly why I despise it when I people say "things go
         | south" then they mean "get worse" or "north of" when they mean
         | "better".
        
         | cortesoft wrote:
         | Big block of cheese day!
        
       | kingsuper20 wrote:
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXqKkYYALMU
        
       | raldi wrote:
       | It says "United States with Alaska & Hawaii" but I don't see them
       | anywhere.
        
         | Nition wrote:
         | > "The table at right shows the US including Alaska and Hawaii,
         | btw. And while not listing Eastern Europe (dark blue in the
         | map) it adds many others unused in the map: Mexico, Peru, New
         | Guinea, New Zealand, Nepal and Bangladesh!"
        
         | jobigoud wrote:
         | It's not on the map but it's included in the figure they used
         | to add all these countries together to compare with the size of
         | Africa.
        
           | bombcar wrote:
           | I guess it fits in all the cracks.
        
         | aksss wrote:
         | Right, HI is probably not material, but considering AK is 1/4
         | the size of the contiguous US, that's pretty substantial.
        
       | dominicjj wrote:
       | I remember flying to Munich once from Cape Town and a German
       | colleague guessed the flight was three to four hours. I said no,
       | it was over eleven hours and he was shocked. I laughed and told
       | him to check out a globe sometime - not a map - so he could trace
       | for himself how massive Africa really is. The surface area of the
       | moon is only 20% larger.
        
         | coyotespike wrote:
         | whoa, now there's a statistic for you!
        
           | bombcar wrote:
           | Asia is 17.21 million mi2 - and the moon is 14.6 million mi2.
        
           | wolfram74 wrote:
           | And, according to a very literal reading of 1917 Catholic
           | law, under the jurisdiction of the diocese of orlando.
           | 
           | https://aleteia.org/2018/08/03/yes-the-moon-has-its-own-
           | cath...
           | 
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Catholic_Diocese_of_Orla.
           | ..
        
         | mgerullis wrote:
         | Ha, in 3-4 hours you may be in Cairo at best
        
           | vishnugupta wrote:
           | I got curious and looked at a non-Mercator map and it seems
           | Cairo is 7-8hrs away. Damn, Africa is huge.
           | 
           | Interestingly India got separated from African continent.
           | West cost of India snugly fits on the right edge of The Horn
           | of Africa. India collided with the larger Asian land mass
           | resulting in the formation of the Himalayan mountain range.
           | It's fun to think about that the western coastal mountains of
           | India are much older than the northern mountains!
           | 
           | Geography is lot of fun!!
        
           | Gibbon1 wrote:
           | If you leave Cairo in a Taxi after 3-4 hours you'll still be
           | in Cairo.
        
             | mgerullis wrote:
             | Stuck on 6th of October bridge
        
           | dominicjj wrote:
           | After four hours, you're still flying over the Congo and
           | haven't even crossed the equator yet.
        
       | unglaublich wrote:
       | Ah, the Mercator Puzzle https://bramus.github.io/mercator-puzzle-
       | redux/
        
       | tardismechanic wrote:
       | Reminds me of this scene:
       | 
       | Why are we changing maps? (from The West Wing) -
       | https://youtube.com/watch?v=eLqC3FNNOaI
        
         | logbiscuitswave wrote:
         | I love that scene. It's one I find myself thinking back on
         | whenever there's a cartography discussion (such as this
         | thread).
        
       | mclightning wrote:
       | Flash News Today! A continent is bigger than most countries!
        
       | jlos wrote:
       | Why isn't Canada or Russia, the two largest countries by land
       | mass, included?
        
         | witherk wrote:
         | Probably because it's trying to convince you that Africa is
         | really huge, so including other really big countries would be
         | counterproductive. I guess you could argue that Canada and
         | Russia both have a lot of tundra that no one wants to live on
         | so that land doesn't count or something.
        
           | bombcar wrote:
           | I've not drawn up the maps, but it appears that North America
           | is just a bit larger than the USA, Canada, and Mexico
           | combined. That's large!
        
         | sandworm101 wrote:
         | Canada is tricky because of all the islands in the north. It
         | isnt a solid blob. Russia is tricky becuase it is so long. I
         | dont think it and the US would nest nicely inside the africa
         | outline. And we cannot ever have a map without thr USA center
         | stage. Also with russia, exactly which boarder should we use?
         | It's probably better to just not enter into that debate.
        
           | samatman wrote:
           | > _Also with russia, exactly which boarder should we use?_
           | 
           | I assure you no one was thinking about that. They would just
           | take whatever they got from punching "Russia" into the GIS
           | database.
        
         | eCa wrote:
         | You can make your own comparisons on https://thetruesize.com/
         | 
         | (Spoiler: Africa is still big.)
        
           | djmips wrote:
           | Dragging Indonesia around was very illuminating for me.
           | Somehow I know the least about Indonesia of all places.
        
         | jandrewrogers wrote:
         | They also excluded Alaska from the United States, which would
         | increase the size by >20%. I also understand why they didn't;
         | the purpose isn't a rigorous measure of country size or
         | anything like that.
        
           | ithkuil wrote:
           | >17%
        
             | jandrewrogers wrote:
             | Alaska is 17% of the US but ~21% larger than CONUS, which
             | is how it was expressed.
        
         | djmips wrote:
         | Canada isn't as big as you think it is.
        
         | jt2190 wrote:
         | OT: Here's a little bit of Russia and Canada for you ;)
         | 
         | https://youtu.be/BXqKkYYALMU
        
       | ahi wrote:
       | Many years ago, a family member (USian, suburban, whitebread) was
       | dating the son of a Nigerian diplomat posted in Addis Ababa. She
       | asked him how long a drive it was, and that's how I knew the
       | relationship was doomed.
       | 
       | I just looked it up. Addis Ababa to Lagos is 2400 miles as the
       | crow flies. This presumably auto-generated route planner states
       | nearly 5000 miles driving. On day one on your drive to Lagos, it
       | recommends 9 hours of driving and stopping in Gondar, still 3.5
       | hours to the Sudanese border. https://www.trippy.com/drive/Addis-
       | Ababa-to-Lagos-Nigeria
        
       | blowski wrote:
       | Obligatory XKCD: https://xkcd.com/977/
        
       | bioinformatics wrote:
       | It's big.
        
       | doggodaddo78 wrote:
       | I don't know why, but I thought of this song when I saw "Africa."
       | 
       | Cesaria Evora - _Africa Nossa_
       | 
       | https://youtu.be/QH1UG6V7iiY
        
         | mattowen_uk wrote:
         | And not this?
         | 
         | https://youtu.be/FTQbiNvZqaY
         | 
         | Interesting... :)
        
       | bioinformatics wrote:
       | It's big, quite big.
        
       | boraoztunc wrote:
       | >> The Good Design Grand Award, arguably Japan's most prestigious
       | award for design, went out to architect Hajime Narukawa's
       | completely groundbreaking design for a map of the world. His map,
       | the AuthaGraph World Map, isn't your average map of the globe:
       | It's a near-perfect representation of the continents and oceans
       | as they exist on our spherical planet, all laid out on a two-
       | dimensional surface.
       | 
       | https://totravelistolive.co/authagraph-world-map/
        
         | macspoofing wrote:
         | Very neat. And he didn't forget New Zealand[1] =)
         | 
         | I wonder how much the Mercator projection influenced the recent
         | flat earth movement, specifically the Antarctic ice wall.
         | 
         | [1]https://www.reddit.com/r/MapsWithoutNZ/
        
         | slim wrote:
         | The map also follows the tradition of putting one's own country
         | at the center
        
         | RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote:
         | Really cool. The shapes of the contents and countries seem like
         | what I am used to. Except for Brazil.
         | 
         | Brazil really looks like it bulges out from South America
         | compared to what I have seen on globes and other projections.
         | 
         | Does anyone know why that happens?
        
           | wtallis wrote:
           | Any comparison of map projections should include Tissot's
           | indicatrix [0] as a visualization of how distortion varies
           | across the map. I find that it's easier to understand than
           | looking at stretched and bent lines of latitude and
           | longitude.
           | 
           | For AuthaGraph: https://kunimune.home.blog/2017/11/23/the-
           | secrets-of-the-aut...
           | 
           | [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tissot%27s_indicatrix
        
         | alanbernstein wrote:
         | I prefer the (related) Dymaxion approach myself, but I'll admit
         | it's not quite as accessible.
        
           | afterburner wrote:
           | Even better, a close relative of it: https://en.wikipedia.org
           | /wiki/Cahill%E2%80%93Keyes_projectio...
        
           | birktj wrote:
           | I really like the Dymaxion projection as well, especially the
           | fact that one can easily see that all major land masses are
           | separated by only small distances of water.
           | 
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dymaxion_map
        
             | zokier wrote:
             | Dymaxion map is neat, but I don't think human brains are
             | very good at handling interrupted maps and Dymaxion is
             | particularly challenging. It is just pretty difficult to
             | mentally intuit how the edges connect, and especially judge
             | distances that cross the edges. Trying to eyeball something
             | like Sydney-Lima great circle path on Dymaxion is
             | unintuitive.
             | 
             | Of similar interrupted style, I think butterfly projections
             | are even better. They might distort land masses slightly
             | more, but are immensely more readable. And they have very
             | pretty symmetric outline.
        
         | afterburner wrote:
         | I far prefer
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cahill%E2%80%93Keyes_projectio...
         | 
         | Minimal distortion, preserves east west alignment as much as
         | possible.
        
         | owenversteeg wrote:
         | I'm not a fan of AuthaGraph at all. It has horrible distortion
         | look at Brazil or Alaska - and it's proprietary (creator never
         | released the actual map details, so you can't make your own...)
         | The worst thing, in my eyes, is that the distortion is
         | unpredictable. Looking at a map where Canada is too big, you
         | can mentally imagine Canada as smaller. But you can't mentally
         | undo the multi-direction transformation of Alaska into not-
         | Alaska. The distortion is so bad that real world things like a
         | road trip through South America would end up looking completely
         | different from this map to another. You better hope you never
         | get on a boat or a plane using this map - try tracing a
         | straight line if you want a laugh. (The unfortunate distortion-
         | hacking done by its creator effectively dumped the distortion
         | in the oceans, so good luck if you ever go there.)
         | 
         | Design features like "you can do nifty origami with it"
         | shouldn't factor into if a map is used or not.
         | 
         | In my opinion, if you want something modern and cool, and you
         | really care about pure accuracy, go with Waterman Butterfly. If
         | you want something four sided and traditional, and relative
         | sizes are slightly less important (but still important), go
         | with Peirce Quincuncial - which, I might add, has far better
         | looking Tissot's indicatrices.
        
           | macspoofing wrote:
           | Your criticisms are way too strong. Every 2D projection map
           | of a 3D globe is going to make some compromises. So you can
           | make the similar kinds of arguments for Mercator projection
           | maps, which preserve shapes, but not relative sizes.
           | 
           | >You better hope you never get on a boat or a plane using
           | this map - try tracing a straight line if you want a laugh.
           | 
           | Then don't use it for that!
           | 
           | >Design features like "you can do nifty origami with it"
           | shouldn't factor into if a map is used or not.
           | 
           | Maps are made for functional or aesthetic reasons or both.
           | Why shouldn't that be a consideration? The pertinent question
           | is: what do you want to use your map for?
           | 
           | >In my opinion, if you want something modern and cool
           | 
           | Again, what are you trying to optimize for?
        
           | andi999 wrote:
           | If one really cares about accuracy, why not getting a globe.
        
             | sheepdestroyer wrote:
             | We all do : Google Earth. Is there still a point to 2D
             | maps?
        
               | KineticLensman wrote:
               | > Is there still a point to 2D maps?
               | 
               | Hiking away from cell towers and wifi
               | 
               | Historical maps
               | 
               | Maps that aren't owned by Google
        
               | Judgmentality wrote:
               | > Hiking away from cell towers and wifi
               | 
               | Just download the map in advance.
               | 
               | > Historical maps
               | 
               | Agreed on this.
               | 
               | > Maps that aren't owned by Google
               | 
               | I agree with this in principle, but there are
               | alternatives to Google Maps and some of them are even
               | gaining popularity because developers in general are
               | terrified of ever relying on Google for anything besides
               | ads.
        
               | KineticLensman wrote:
               | > Just download the map in advance
               | 
               | Okay, hiking away from cell towers and wifi and power
               | supplies
        
               | Judgmentality wrote:
               | My phone gets about 4 days of use currently before
               | recharging, and I could pretty easily find ways to
               | recharge it even using solar power if I wanted to.
               | 
               | If you don't want to use your phone as a map that's fine,
               | but it's incredibly convenient for (I'd wager) 99% of use
               | cases.
        
             | thewakalix wrote:
             | Yes, you're very clever.
        
         | logbiscuitswave wrote:
         | That's a fascinatingly done projection. It really demonstrates
         | how it's possible for Maine to be the closest US state to
         | Africa.
        
         | josephcsible wrote:
         | This projection seems to really skew shapes. For example,
         | Alaska looks skewed diagonally, Brazil looks really stretched
         | east-to-west, and the west half of Australia looks too big
         | compared to the east half.
        
           | eru wrote:
           | Mercator is what you get when you preserve local angles (ie
           | shapes). So it's only natural that moving away from Mercator
           | would distort shapes.
           | 
           | I guess you could try to concentrate your angle distortion
           | into the ocean away from the land masses that people care
           | about?
        
         | Causality1 wrote:
         | _It's a near-perfect representation of the continents and
         | oceans as they exist on our spherical planet, all laid out on a
         | two-dimensional surface._
         | 
         | This is a bullshit statement. You cannot project the surface of
         | the earth onto a flat plane without distortion. AuthaGraph
         | favors the preservation of size at the cost of extreme
         | distortion of shape.
        
         | ZeroGravitas wrote:
         | Here is an interactive tool, that lets you center other
         | projections on different countries, to see the effect of the
         | distortions move about:
         | 
         | https://engaging-data.com/country-centered-map-projections/
         | 
         | From playing around with that, it would seem the design process
         | for the map was to "center" japan, then fiddle around with the
         | polar regions to make them more recognisable.
        
       | block_dagger wrote:
       | How about an accurate rotatable 3 dimensional map using the
       | puzzle piece idea? I'm not skilled at 3d animation but I bet a
       | talented artist could do it fairly easily.
        
         | DistressedDrone wrote:
         | At that point why not just use a globe?
        
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       (page generated 2021-05-16 23:02 UTC)