[HN Gopher] Gigabyte Brix Pro: A Compact PC for Basic Computing ...
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       Gigabyte Brix Pro: A Compact PC for Basic Computing Needs
        
       Author : walterbell
       Score  : 58 points
       Date   : 2021-05-15 10:17 UTC (1 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.overclockers.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.overclockers.com)
        
       | butz wrote:
       | Still waiting for small form factor PC with built in PSU.
        
         | walterbell wrote:
         | This is the size you're looking at,
         | https://www.antec.com/product/case/isk300-150
         | 
         | Or the rabbit hole of custom builds,
         | https://smallformfactor.net/forum/
        
       | hocuspocus wrote:
       | Who would want four HDMI ports but zero (mini)DP?
        
         | auxym wrote:
         | I'm not sure why, but DP seems to be on the way out.
         | Anecdotally, I haven't seen DP ports on displays or laptops
         | bought in the last year or two.
        
           | danhor wrote:
           | On Laptops: It's probably because all DPs are routed through
           | the usb-c connectors. No one does hdmi over usb-c, so they're
           | left-over.
        
             | aksss wrote:
             | You can do usb-c to hdmi with a dongle of course, so even
             | if driving an hdmi display, usb-c will do that.
        
           | aksss wrote:
           | DP is still king for graphics - better bandwidth, color
           | depth, variable refresh rates, daisy chaining. The limitation
           | is the cable length, where HDMI is way better, but this
           | probably only matters for conference rooms and home theaters.
           | 
           | Running laptops exclusively for years I had the same
           | impression about the death of dp. Getting a rig (and high
           | quality monitor) for gaming changed my mind about that.
           | 
           | Also, as another said, dp is run out of laptops using USB-c
           | and thunderbolt now. HDMI ports themselves are no longer
           | needed so you won't see those on laptops much longer, either.
        
           | hocuspocus wrote:
           | All high-end monitors very much have DP ports. Same with
           | graphics cards.
        
         | dkjaudyeqooe wrote:
         | Someone who uses TVs as monitors, especially if you want 3 or 4
         | it's the most economical option.
         | 
         | On a higher-end box no DP would be criminal.
        
       | reaperducer wrote:
       | "Basic" computing is now four HDMI ports and an LTE connection.
       | Good to know.
        
         | kingsuper20 wrote:
         | Probably was cheap to add and there's some commercial market
         | they're aiming at.
         | 
         | I've been down the NUC road, and sort of like these kinds of
         | products, but think they're a hard sell. A person could spend
         | $50-$150 (instead of $500 all-in) on eBay and get an ex-
         | corporate small desktop or a Thinkpad, spend a bit more and get
         | a new Mac Mini M1, or view it as a down payment on a decent
         | laptop or desktop. That Brix looks like it's in the middle of a
         | pretty big ecosystem of products.
         | 
         | There's more than a few people that might as well just own a
         | Chromebox. If Raspberry PI 4s were just a bit faster, the non-
         | performance home hobbyists might as well go for those as
         | desktops and stick with computers that are cheaper than 2-3 new
         | hardbound books.
        
           | otabdeveloper4 wrote:
           | The cheaper NUC computers are a good alternative to the
           | Raspberry PI.
           | 
           | The Raspberry seems cheaper on paper, but you have to add a
           | case, power supply, some sort of storage solution and then
           | suffer with the whole thing not quite working properly.
        
           | bartvk wrote:
           | These are much smaller than an ex-corporate small desktop,
           | right? My Intel NUC can easily be mounted behind my monitor.
           | And although this Gigabyte product may be more expensive, the
           | NUC its price range starts around 150 for Celeron based
           | models a.l the way up to Mac Mini levels.
        
             | kingsuper20 wrote:
             | Those corporate boxes go pretty small.
             | 
             | https://www.amazon.com/Lenovo-
             | ThinkCentre-M93-i7-4765T-Win10...
             | 
             | To me NUCs have sort of the same problem as their brethren
             | in this space, you end up with too much money into them.
             | 
             | In terms of cheap desktops, I've settled into older
             | Thinkpads for now. Tolerably quiet (although I do consider
             | fanless desktops now and again), cheap, they appear to be
             | the kings of OS compatibility, as fixable as a laptop can
             | be, built-in battery backup for the shitty power we have
             | 'round these parts.
             | 
             | At some point I'll have to modernize, but find it hard to
             | spend much on computers. That's what employers/clients are
             | for.
        
         | wejick wrote:
         | I believe there's this market of digital signage, and this
         | looks good for that kind of display solution. I see many
         | opensource software for that like https://xibo.org.uk/
        
           | aksss wrote:
           | For digital signage, a brix is overkill. A raspberry pi 3b+
           | running screenly (or whatever) is A++.
        
       | spaceisballer wrote:
       | I would love to have something very low power taking up little
       | space like these. Even after dropping 16gb ram and maybe a 1 TB
       | m2 you are still in the $500 range. I was interested in a Mac
       | Mini but if you want 16gb ram and a 513gb HD you are over $1k.
       | Sure the mini will do a lot more but it's not the niche I'm
       | trying to fill. I want a small low power computer running my plex
       | server and for doing basic computing/surfing. Ability to play
       | Roblox or Minecraft is a bonus, but I have a gaming PC for that.
        
       | ihsw wrote:
       | The Ryzen V1605B is a bottom-of-the-barrel Ryzen 1000-series
       | embedded APU. There have been leaps and bounds in the past three
       | years of embedded Ryzen APUs.
       | 
       | https://en.wikichip.org/wiki/amd/ryzen_embedded/v1605b
       | 
       | It's disappointing that Gigabyte is choosing to start the AMD
       | Brix platform with such an underwhelming product offering,
       | especially in the face of starting with an Intel Tiger Lake
       | processor.
       | 
       | I wonder how much Overclockers.com was paid to gush over TGL-U.
        
       | Havoc wrote:
       | Been down this route - thermals and acoustics are a nightmare.
       | 
       | Unless you really can't spare the space for a full tower its
       | better not to
        
         | oneplane wrote:
         | I'd say "it depends". Having a tiny laptop-type thermal
         | solution (high TDP chip, low mass heatsink, tiny whiny fan)
         | would indeed just be as annoying as a laptop, but there are
         | plenty of configurations where it works just fine. The larger
         | NUC-style devices (generally marketed as "this one has room for
         | a 2.5" drive) with low power chips when used for light basic
         | work don't really consume enough power to get hot.
         | 
         | This is even something you can make completely passive; check
         | out some of those ODMs in China that make passively cooled M
         | and U series Intel PCs. Generally marketed as industrial PCs
         | and software routers, they do have 18W parts that work fine in
         | 35degC ambient for years and have plenty of performance. It
         | really depends on what you use it for. (Qotom is one of them,
         | there are a lot of white-label manufacturers, but when they
         | make the boards it's pretty close to the 'actual' ODM instead
         | of just another re-badge)
        
           | walterbell wrote:
           | Do any of those ODM boxes allow open firmware like coreboot?
           | Protectli is one option, would be nice to have other choices.
        
         | Hamuko wrote:
         | There are definitely computers between the Brix and a full
         | tower. My old computer is a full tower but my new gaming rig is
         | a mini-ITX build that takes very little space on my desk and I
         | plan on replacing the full tower with something like a Mac Mini
         | in the future.
        
           | alanfranz wrote:
           | I would love a small MicroATX case without support for DVD-RW
           | or 3.5" drives. MicroATX is inexpensive and effective (cases
           | usually support standard ATX power supplies and PCIe cards
           | without a riser, it's easy to mount a full-size GPU and
           | common heatsinks, etc), but it seems hard to go significantly
           | smaller then my own case (cm 36x36x17). But there's a lot of
           | empty space in the front, so it should be very easy to get
           | the depth down to 25-26 centimeters or something like that.
           | 
           | But I couldn't find anything like that, either you get
           | flatter, HTPC-like cases designed to stay horizontal, or cube
           | cases (which aren't so nice IMHO, since they take more
           | horizontal surface on the desktop), or you need to find a
           | small mini ITX cases (which can get very small, but they may
           | require SFX power supplies and can be harder to cool down).
           | 
           | A desktop is still a nice thing to have. They can be quiet
           | even when the workload is consistently high.
        
         | tmashb wrote:
         | Agreed, although it differs vastly between models, I'd say it's
         | rather the opposite if you opt for passive 3d party
         | heatsinks(chassis) which are plenty for Intel's NUC, even 80W
         | TDP models (Iris Pro). Passive cooling for desktops is way more
         | complicated. I've been using Akasa for my Skull canyon for
         | years for my dead silent setup.
        
           | walterbell wrote:
           | Akasa's fanless Intel NUC cases are excellent. Hopefully they
           | will create a fanless case for Ryzen NUCs, or generalize an
           | Intel fanless case to support multiple port layouts.
        
       | OakNinja wrote:
       | Could turn into a decent pfSense/openSense box.
        
         | lostlogin wrote:
         | Esxi home server - it's a little under powered in terms of CPU
         | cores, but it's a great little unit. I like quicksync from
         | Intel for video transcoding, however it's other features make
         | up for it.
        
       | oneplane wrote:
       | Any base model NUC is also 'a compact pc for basic computing
       | needs', and the same goes for modern SFF and non-NUC NGFF PCs
       | offered by the likes of Dell, HP and in some cases Apple (Mac
       | Mini).
        
       | 1MachineElf wrote:
       | So will the Ryzen version work with ECC RAM?
        
         | walterbell wrote:
         | AsRock usually does with Ryzen, but testing is needed since
         | these NUC-sized boxes are using laptop chipsets.
        
           | absorber wrote:
           | It's kind of vague and hit-and-miss though, even on non-NUC
           | systems ASRock not always supports ECC. Supposedly it's
           | because of AMD's (lack of) clarity about the matter
           | (according to an ASRock rep, at least)
           | 
           | This is the mail I sent them in January. Still waiting for a
           | response:
           | 
           | > (This is a pretty technical sales question)
           | 
           | > I wanted to know about the ECC compatibility of Asrock Rack
           | X470D4U > In the specifications (https://www.asrockrack.com/g
           | eneral/productdetail.asp?Model=X...) it says the following:
           | 
           | > "*For Picasso Ridge and Raven Ridge CPUs, ECC is only
           | supported with PRO CPUs."
           | 
           | > However, there is no such thing as "Picasso Ridge". There
           | is however Pinnacle Ridge and Raven Ridge. Perhaps a mistake?
           | 
           | > So I was wondering what AMD CPUs had full ECC compatibility
           | (so both detection and correction)
           | 
           | > Does the AMD Ryzen 5 1600 have full ECC support on that
           | board, for example?
        
             | walterbell wrote:
             | Ryzen in general is all over the place, sometimes ECC works
             | on systems even when the BIOS has not been officially
             | validated to support ECC.
             | 
             | OEMs protect market segments with higher-priced devices,
             | e.g. Ryzen Pro and EPYC/Xeon, which limits where AMD can
             | offer "official" support for ECC.
        
         | fu8ur8uwr8eu wrote:
         | In 2019 I purchased an ASRock iBOX-V1000 which is fanless and
         | completely silent (and has Ryzen quad core with integrated Vega
         | GPU) and I have run it with 32GB ECC ram with both Ubuntu 18.04
         | and 20.04. Works great. Yes, the ECC works in "ECC mode" and
         | Linux can see and report any detected/corrected memory errors.
         | (Never seen any errors. Some people use hair dryers to heat up
         | the ram to test the ECC, though.) I purchased from mitxpc:
         | 
         | https://mitxpc.com/products/ibox-v1000?_pos=1&_sid=a0e23dd56...
        
           | walterbell wrote:
           | Thanks for real-world report on the V1000 fanless. Hopefully
           | the V2000 fanless version will reach retail soon, was
           | announced in 20Q4.
        
       | ekianjo wrote:
       | > Basic computing needs
       | 
       | So they define basic as anything that's not gaming.
        
         | Synaesthesia wrote:
         | Lots of games you can play on this.
        
         | agumonkey wrote:
         | Seems fair to me.
        
       | francis-io wrote:
       | I've been using an i5 nuc for the last 5 or so years as a desktop
       | pc attached to a kvm switch for a work laptop when forced by
       | workplace IT.
       | 
       | I'm still surprised how far integrated graphics can get you.
        
       | Black101 wrote:
       | The ASUS PN50 MiniPC with AMD Ryzen is great too and can handle
       | more then basic computing needs:
       | https://www.microcenter.com/product/630580/asus-pn50-minipc-...
        
       | chrisandchris wrote:
       | > Gigabyte has 14 Brix Pro models that vary in both size, and
       | installed hardware.
       | 
       | One of the reason I'm going to dislike this product. As I would
       | like to compare 14 different models. That's going to take to much
       | time.
        
       | snarfy wrote:
       | I own three. They are great little PCs. I have one setup with
       | win10, cubase and ableton, another is my Ubuntu box, and one I
       | was using as a file server but am now repurposing as my cnc
       | control pc.
        
       | MrFoof wrote:
       | Went down a similar route for a 'mini virtualization server.' HP
       | ProDesk 405 G6 with an AMD Ryzen 7 PRO 4750GE _(8C /16T, 3.1GHz
       | base clock, 8 VEGA GPU cores)_, and tossed in 64GB of DDR4-3200
       | and a 1TB Samsung 980 Pro. Real storage is like 55TB of RAID 1 or
       | RAID 10 arrays on the network, where VM backups and snapshots
       | also go _(and get shoved out to Backblaze)_ , as well as media
       | and other chunky data. If you got an EliteDesk 805 you can even
       | have a second M.2 socket so you can RAID1 the SSDs. Only downer
       | is no 10GbE ethernet.
       | 
       | Sits at about 12W at idle. With everything under the sun running
       | it hums along at about 20-22W of power consumption. Absolutely
       | silent. Plus being an APU I can even have a Plex VM happily
       | transcode without breaking a sweat. AMD DASH means I also have
       | full IPMI functionality as well _(not as good as Intel vPro, but
       | good enough)_.
       | 
       | 1L form factors _(incl. Mac Mini, NUCs)_ are ideal home servers
       | at this point when you need much more power than a Raspberry Pi
       | provides.
        
         | pengaru wrote:
         | > it hums along at about 20-22W of power consumption.
         | 
         | > Absolutely silent
         | 
         | Well which is it, "absolutely silent" or "humming"? Does this
         | thing have fans?
        
           | ElCapitanMarkla wrote:
           | I think "hums along" here is meant more as "speeds along" vs
           | actually humming.
        
         | minimaul wrote:
         | There are some nice self-build options too - eg I have
         | https://www.asrock.com/Nettop/Intel/DeskMini%20310%20Series/...
         | with a i7 9700 in (8c8t), plus 1x NVMe and 2x 2TB SATA SSDs for
         | VM disk. Works really really well, and it's pretty much silent.
         | 
         | NUCs are just that little bit too compromised, I think - but
         | things like the hp prodesk or the asrock deskmini are a really
         | nice sweet spot.
        
           | pizza234 wrote:
           | The power draw of an i7-9700 is around 100W on full load
           | (107W, CPU only, according to Tom's hardware1). There are
           | relatively quiet solutions, but they're in the ballpark of
           | 30/35 dB, and they may not even cover the 100+W requirement.
           | 
           | 22W of full load can be cooled with a passive cooler (large,
           | but still can).
           | 
           | [1] https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/intel-
           | core-i7-9700k-9th...
        
         | paranoidrobot wrote:
         | > Only downer is no 10GbE ethernet.
         | 
         | I've been trying to solve this problem in the ~1L chassis size.
         | 
         | I have two problems I'm trying to solve:
         | 
         | - Multi-port 10GbE for a PFSense/OpnSense router replacement
         | 
         | - Reasonable GPU for Plex Transcoding - at least two concurrent
         | 4K HEVC decodes + re-encodes to 4K or 1080p (Intel QuickSync
         | isn't fast enough for this)
         | 
         | Both configurations of them have to be silent, or near silent.
         | 
         | I think the Lenovo P330 Tiny is probably the best option here,
         | as it has a PCIe Gen 3 x8 slot. The factory options let you put
         | either a quad-port 1GbE NIC in, or a Nvidia Quadro P620/P1000.
         | 
         | I think I should be able to put an Intel X710-DA4 (quad-port
         | SFP+ NIC) in for my PFSense box, or upgrade to a Quadro
         | P2000/2200 for the Plex transcode needs.
        
           | geoffeg wrote:
           | I've been looking for something similar, but lower power
           | usage is more important to me than silence.
        
         | Hamuko wrote:
         | > _1L form factors (incl. Mac Mini, NUCs) are ideal home
         | servers at this point when you need much more power than a
         | Raspberry Pi provides._
         | 
         | A Synology or a HPE MicroServer might be better since you can
         | use it for storage as well without external HDDs.
        
           | walterbell wrote:
           | Storage devices are so quirky that I've given up on
           | integration of SFF compute with storage.
           | 
           | Compact storage devices make tradeoffs, which may or may not
           | fit your needs, e.g. flash/SSD tier, 10GbE/2.5GbE NICs,
           | memory, TPMs, low-power vs. cores. External storage offers
           | more flexibility, which will increase as USB4/Thunderbolt
           | become widely available and fall in price. For now, USB 3.2
           | JBOD with ZFS is workable with external enclosures,
           | https://oyendigital.com/multi-bay-storage
           | 
           | Wish there was a NUC-sized device with an LSI SATA controller
           | and external connector. If we're lucky, the
           | https://frame.work "modular laptop" approach will be adapted
           | to compact desktops based on laptop chipsets.
        
           | MrFoof wrote:
           | I don't have, "external HDDs". I have a NAS running TrueNAS,
           | with a few arrays in it depending on the performance needed
           | for the storage. Its primary jobs are for data processing and
           | video editing (plus smaller arrays for backups and VM
           | snapshots), and has multiple 10GbE network interfaces (which
           | it can saturate) to facilitate that. It was also built to sip
           | power when there isn't any disk activity. I have no desire
           | for it to run VMs or containers. Its job is to just be
           | storage.
           | 
           | The virtualization server is one of many things that connects
           | to it.
           | 
           | There are benefits to having the storage and the
           | virtualization servers separate, mostly that there's no
           | single point of failure.
        
       | LargoLasskhyfv wrote:
       | Their comparison table makes no sense. The blurb says the Intel
       | option supports up to 64GB of of DDR4-3200 vs. AMD with only up
       | to 32GB of DDR4-2400. The table says both options support only up
       | to 32GB of DDR4-2400.
       | 
       | Sloppy...
        
       | walterbell wrote:
       | Lenovo Tiny P330/P340 and 920 have a small PCI slot that accepts
       | an Nvidia GPU with 4X mini-displayport, or a quad-port Broadcom
       | NIC. Flexible and powerful 1-litre box for virtualization. wish
       | there was a Ryzen Pro version.
       | 
       | ASRock 4x4 offers the latest Ryzen mobile CPUs (4300U 4c, 4500U
       | 6c, 4800U 8c) in a traditional NUC form factor. Minimal
       | expansion. Includes serial port header for kernel dev.
        
       | lavela wrote:
       | > The unit can easily hide with other AV Components or not take
       | up much space on the desk.
       | 
       | Small form factor usually means dealing with an external power
       | supply. I know about the benefits like taking a heat source out
       | of the device, but I hate dealing with those bricks, especially
       | when there are multiple externally powered devices and you don't
       | have some object to let the power supplies slip behind.
       | 
       | Are there any neat solutions for cable management in those cases?
        
         | elcritch wrote:
         | One option is to use PoE. You can have one PoE switch at your
         | router and power nuc's or mini-pcs.
         | 
         | Looks like there are a few nuc specific options:
         | https://shop.poetexas.com/products/gbt-nuc You could probably
         | find slim DC power bricks.
        
         | walterbell wrote:
         | The custom SFF PC community has expensive, small, AC-DC power
         | supplies, e.g. https://hdplex.com/hdplex-nanoatx-power-supply-
         | explained
        
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       (page generated 2021-05-16 23:01 UTC)