[HN Gopher] The Covid lab-leak theory goes mainstream
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       The Covid lab-leak theory goes mainstream
        
       Author : cwwc
       Score  : 49 points
       Date   : 2021-05-15 18:29 UTC (4 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.axios.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.axios.com)
        
       | upofadown wrote:
       | For this to mean anything then it would have to be specific
       | enough that it could lead to policy changes at the institute in
       | question (and possibly others). Otherwise it makes no difference.
       | 
       | We know it came from bats. It might of spent time in a building
       | somewhere. It may or may not of escaped from that building.
       | Either way we still would of ended up with a pandemic. It wasn't
       | going to magically stay in bats after it mutated to a form
       | transmissible to humans.
       | 
       | They were Chinese bats. So if we want to hate China for this we
       | still can. Hatred doesn't have to make logical sense.
        
       | arisAlexis wrote:
       | An outbreak occurring next to the the only Bsl4 lab dealing with
       | coronavirus research and it took the world 1.5 year and 15mln
       | deaths to start seriously thinking about this.
        
       | Jun8 wrote:
       | NYT article from less than two months ago still underlining that
       | the lab leak hypothesis has been thoroughly dismissed by
       | scientists and it was an idea pushed by Pompeo and Trump:
       | https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/26/science/redfield-coronavi....
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | Wowfunhappy wrote:
         | Two things can be true at once--Pompeo and Trump may have
         | decided to push a theory they wanted to be true, without
         | actually examining the evidence for it. That's obviously not
         | productive--but the theory could still be true.
         | 
         | The article does mention that some scientists thought the lab
         | leak was a real possibility. They even quote Dr. Fauci saying
         | saying as much (although he made it clear that he thought a
         | natural cause was more likely).
        
         | dqv wrote:
         | Yeah this is what I was talking about elsewhere in this thread.
         | 
         | But what the article really says is the hypothesis "that the
         | virus was created or modified intentionally in a lab were
         | dismissed by scientists and U.S. intelligence officials."
         | 
         | That does not preclude it from being leaked from a lab. I find
         | it uncomfortable that they are using crafty wording to jump
         | from "it wasn't created in a lab" to the virus never escaping
         | the lab, which are two entirely different claims.
        
       | spinny wrote:
       | The theory been around since covid.
       | 
       | People were concerned about lab leaks from that particular lab in
       | Wuhan (the one close to the market where it supposedly started)
       | before covid. The research on this type of virus was happening at
       | this lab, they had posted a job opening for a researcher some
       | time before.
       | 
       | All the Trump hate going around (an the willingness to go against
       | all-things-Trump) at the time, clouded massively any actions to
       | properly identify the origins and even some preventive actions.
       | 
       | Any traces that could only be identify at the time are gone by
       | now, and as time passes, we may have more information but
       | probably less concrete evidence. Sadly the world may end up with
       | only theories
        
         | jimmygrapes wrote:
         | I think it's going to be really interesting in the future to
         | see if there was anything else that was dismissed or treated
         | with disdain simply because of pure contrarianism to anything
         | with Trump-adjacency. As if all it should have taken for Trump
         | to have won was to have tried baby-tier reverse psychology.
         | 
         | I wonder how many otherwise rational and educated people here
         | on HN who hold that hatred still would be willing to analyze
         | their intentions deeply enough to figure out why they hate? I
         | am not interested in justifications, just suggesting some
         | multi-level introspection. Most of the time when I discuss this
         | with younger people, asking "why do you feel that way?" at
         | least 3 times results in a complete blank (or violent/emotional
         | reaction), a blatant cognitive fallacy, or simple trend/peer
         | pressure. The ones who can still answer are those with truly
         | unique ideas, in my experience at least.
         | 
         | If anybody reads this and is willing, I'd be glad to hear your
         | take on this.
        
       | dkdk8283 wrote:
       | If it is true China would never admit it. It can't be dismissed
       | on their word alone. Glad to see this investigated.
        
       | dqv wrote:
       | Good. Of course I'm not expecting anyone to prove a negative, but
       | the lab leak theory was dismissed with very little evidence to
       | the contrary. We know other viruses have leaked from labs before
       | [0].
       | 
       | I think part of the resistance to accepting this possibility was
       | that it was strongly associated with Trump supporters. I'm glad
       | people won't be able to use the "that's a Trump supporter theory"
       | bludgeon and we can start hearing experts talk about this in good
       | faith.
       | 
       | [0]: https://youtu.be/HKQDSgBHPfY?t=214 (thanks to whichever HNer
       | posted this initially - not even sure if it had to do with a
       | covid discussion)
        
       | AzzieElbab wrote:
       | Just wait until alternative treatments of COVID go mainstream
        
       | meepmorp wrote:
       | An alternative to the standard lab leak theory:
       | 
       | Thee virus escaped a lab, but not wasn't actually genetically
       | manipulated - patient zero was exposed to a naturally occurring
       | virus during the course of their work and it mutated to become
       | more transmissible in vivo.
        
         | dqv wrote:
         | ??? I don't remember hearing anything about genetic
         | manipulation being a part of the lab leak theory. My
         | understanding is that these kinds of viruses are studied all
         | the time without being modified.
        
           | cameldrv wrote:
           | The WIV is either the #1 or #2 lab worldwide in studying and
           | genetically modifying coronaviruses. They had multiple active
           | grants and recent published papers on this work.
        
         | Izkata wrote:
         | That _is_ the standard lab-leak theory. Intentional
         | manipulation of the virus was the strawman used to discredit
         | it, by conflating the two.
         | 
         | ...which is especially interesting in that it 's going
         | mainstream alongside more serious looks at the gain of function
         | research that was funded there. This is actually more
         | conspiratorial than what people had been saying for the past 14
         | months.
        
       | victor106 wrote:
       | Ex cdc director also believes this. https://youtu.be/f0_RhfT21bw
       | 
       | The Chinese government has a lot to answer to the world. Their
       | cover up in the initial stages costed thousands of lives and
       | unspeakable damage to millions of people. The irony is the world
       | still keeps buying billions of dollars of goods from them
        
       | totalZero wrote:
       | This theory has been mainstream since before Covid.
       | 
       | At the time of the laboratory's inception as a BSL-4 facility,
       | Nature published an article describing worries that China would
       | be unable to contain pathogens there. Here's a PDF:
       | 
       | https://www.nature.com/news/polopoly_fs/1.21487!/menu/main/t...
        
         | dqv wrote:
         | I guess mainstream is the wrong word for it. During the Trump
         | administration, it seemed like there was an effort to suppress
         | the theory by associating the lab leak theory with Trump
         | supporters. I also recall an Indian virologist trying to
         | suggest SARS-CoV-2 had been modified to have parts of HIV in
         | its genetic material.
        
           | 07121941 wrote:
           | I agree, seems like it got memory-holed, or at least lumped
           | as tinfoil-hat bs
        
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       (page generated 2021-05-15 23:01 UTC)