[HN Gopher] Rectal Breathing with Perfluorocarbons
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Rectal Breathing with Perfluorocarbons
Author : Metacelsus
Score : 52 points
Date : 2021-05-14 19:54 UTC (3 hours ago)
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(TXT) w3m dump (www.cell.com)
| harveywi wrote:
| Bach's "Air on the G String" will never sound the same.
| mdani wrote:
| A very interesting video on PFCs and liquid breathing.
|
| https://youtu.be/TIGCdA2YLyY
| leephillips wrote:
| This is a strong example of a title that simultaneously make me
| want to click on it but made me afraid to do so. In the end I
| chickened out.
| hisnameisjimmy wrote:
| Worth the click, pretty wild technology.
| greatgoat420 wrote:
| It isn't that scary.
|
| >Intra-rectal delivery of a liquid form of O2 known as
| conjugated perfluorocarbon, a compound historically used in
| clinics for liquid ventilation through airway administration,
| is highly tolerable and efficacious in ameliorating severe
| respiratory failure. Thus, by repurposing the distal gut as an
| accessary breathing organ, enteral ventilation therapy offers
| an alternative paradigm as an adjunctive means to patients who
| are in critical need of respiratory support.
| semi-extrinsic wrote:
| Nitpick (on TFA): perfluorocarbons are not "a liquid form of
| O2". The thing about these liquids is that they can dissolve
| a huge amount of both O2 and CO2, compared to normal liquids.
| It's kinda crucial that they can carry lots of CO2 out of the
| body as well.
|
| Calling PFCs "a liquid form of O2" is like saying carbonated
| water is "a liquid form of CO2".
| amelius wrote:
| But how do you replenish this once the O2 is absorbed? Do
| you pump out the delivery agent, then pump the O2-rich form
| back in?
| kazinator wrote:
| Obviously; and--I would hope!--out the same end where it
| came in.
| [deleted]
| kazinator wrote:
| Could this also be regarded as a dietary supplement with
| negative calories?
| ChuckMcM wrote:
| The joke here is "Man next year's scuba gear is going to be
| really interesting."
|
| That said, the paper using the liquid EVA (L-EVA) technique can
| keep rodents survivably oxygenated. (~ 95% oxygen levels if I am
| reading the graph in figure 2C correctly) so it is an interesting
| result to watch.
| kleiba wrote:
| Here's a video that demonstrates the underlying scientific
| principle, focusing on expiration:
| http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SFLw8aH-M2w&t=0m4s
| thunkshift1 wrote:
| Well, I fell for that
| Metacelsus wrote:
| It's a crazy idea, but this might actually be pretty useful for
| people whose lungs are damaged.
| ceejayoz wrote:
| Or trauma patients you can't get quickly intubated; could have
| utility in ambulances.
| harveywi wrote:
| Deaths from assphyxiation will plummet.
| mikeappell wrote:
| I wonder what it would take to get us to the point where we can
| oxygenate sufficiently without needing to use our lungs at all.
| Tons of applications there.
| intricatedetail wrote:
| What would you replace the lungs with? The space could probably
| fit a battery and M1 Mac.
| wbc wrote:
| arc reactor
| harveywi wrote:
| You would need to replace them with something that could
| effectively replace the rectum.
| nradov wrote:
| That already exists. Surgeons have been using cardiopulmonary
| bypass machines for years.
| jmpman wrote:
| Butt chugging oxygen? What will the millennials think of next.
| dang wrote:
| _Mammals can absorb oxygen through their intestines_ -
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27156334 - May 2021 (106
| comments)
| Metacelsus wrote:
| Sorry I didn't see that, it appears to be a (quite good)
| commentary article on the paper I linked.
| WesolyKubeczek wrote:
| Reminded me of a childhood joke:
|
| Once there was a hedgehog who had learned to breathe with his
| butt. One day he sat down onto a tree stump and died of
| suffocation.
|
| But seriously, if my lungs had to go and I had an option, I would
| totally grab at any tech to breathe with my whatever else.
| aqme28 wrote:
| It looks like this works for oxygenation, but does it work to
| remove carbon dioxide? I didn't see anything about that in the
| paper, but it's just as important unless it's super short-term.
| rozab wrote:
| David Blaine claimed that when he was preparing for his
| underwater breath holding record attempt, he bought some of this
| stuff online thinking he might be able to just cheese it.
|
| So he filled his sink with it, stuck his face in and tried to
| breathe.
|
| He found it so difficult and unpleasant he decided to just break
| the record for real instead (he got 17 minutes and 4 seconds).
|
| https://youtu.be/XFnGhrC_3Gs?t=297
| harveywi wrote:
| If he would have sat in his sink instead, he would have smashed
| the record.
| jfengel wrote:
| This is a fascinating discovery, but I do want to spare a
| moment's thought for the lab animals in the study. Asphyxiation
| is a deeply unpleasant way to die, which is what happened to all
| of the control group, all of the group without intestinal
| abrasion, and 25% of the mice who were given the full treatment.
|
| That latter is just one animal; the groups were very small. But
| that sounds especially horrible, getting almost enough oxygen to
| live. Every single animal underwent "agonal respiration", which
| is merely medical Latin for "gasping for breath", but nonetheless
| suggests that these mice were suffering substantially.
|
| I'm glad that the groups were small. I'm well aware that animal
| models are necessary for medicine, and that these deaths may well
| one day save many human lives; presumably the Institutional
| Review Board decided it was worth it on balance. I hope that
| future experiments can continue to be done with an eye to
| minimizing the suffering that goes into them.
| prideout wrote:
| It's good that you brought this up in a tactful way. I share
| your concerns about animal suffering, and your hope for the
| future.
|
| It sounds like you are willing to concede that the suffering in
| this particular case is potentially worthwhile, and I too am
| willing to make this concession. Millions of people have died,
| and we have to do what we have to do. I hope we can be smarter
| in the future.
| 4gotunameagain wrote:
| Haha there was a control group? What did they expect?
| 35fbe7d3d5b9 wrote:
| As seen in The Abyss (1989), where a real rat was submerged in a
| similar liquid. Of course, its respiration was not rectal, but
| normal - or as normal as "breathing via liquid" can be.
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFFpMqs9kbI
| PaulDavisThe1st wrote:
| Only the rat though, not Ed Harris ....
| zabzonk wrote:
| Hippy: "He ain't digging it, man!"
| harveywi wrote:
| How do you know that the respiration in the movie wasn't
| rectal?
| aasasd wrote:
| Editorialized title.
| ggambetta wrote:
| Reverse-farting. What a time to be alive.
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