[HN Gopher] Vesuvius ancient eruption rescuer identified at Herc...
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       Vesuvius ancient eruption rescuer identified at Herculaneum, says
       expert
        
       Author : harscoat
       Score  : 67 points
       Date   : 2021-05-12 15:53 UTC (7 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.bbc.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.bbc.com)
        
       | erulabs wrote:
       | It's fairly incredible to think one of those skeletons found on
       | the beach may actually be Pliney the Elder himself. These sort of
       | quasi-mythical accounts being made tangible are amazing. It's
       | like finding a piece of the Trojan Horse!
        
         | praptak wrote:
         | There's some evidence that a skull that was dug up at the site
         | a long time ago is Pliny's:
         | https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/14/science/pliny-archaeology...
        
         | dheera wrote:
         | I've been there and my first thought is just how idiotically
         | stupid humans are for building a massive modern town UPHILL
         | from those ruins.
         | 
         | I mean hello this place got obliterated, evidence is right in
         | front of you, it's probably not a great place to build stuff
         | ...
         | 
         | Oh and even in California I see these lava flows around Mt.
         | Shasta and railways cut into them ... hello, have you thought
         | about going _around_ the lava flows instead of cutting into
         | them? What do you think is going to happen next time lava comes
         | flowing down?
        
           | erulabs wrote:
           | But the tile yield bonus for building next to a volcano are
           | so good!
        
             | verst wrote:
             | Civ 6? :)
        
           | eCa wrote:
           | Speaking of California. SF bay area has a 20% probability of
           | 7.5 earthquake within the next 30 years[1]. Probably not a
           | great place to build stuff either.
           | 
           | [1] https://www.usgs.gov/faqs/what-probability-earthquake-
           | will-o...
        
             | TheGallopedHigh wrote:
             | You can build earthquake proof buildings. See many nations
             | in the pacific: notably Japan.
        
           | hourislate wrote:
           | You really don't have to go that far back. Considering every
           | decade a beach community gets wiped off the map by a
           | hurricane and is immediately rebuilt, few rarely care about
           | the consequences. People are always building in
           | fire/flood/disaster zones. I suppose with insurance and the
           | ability to flee these destructive forces of nature are an
           | acceptable risk. Taking this a step further, climate change
           | could make the whole planet uninhabitable and we still can't
           | get anyone to give a shit.
        
           | bernardv wrote:
           | True, and then people complain about their insurance
           | premiums!
        
           | jdonaldson wrote:
           | On a geological time scale, it's probably more economical to
           | cut through them and shave time off of every journey between
           | eruption events.
        
             | dheera wrote:
             | Maybe, but we could create a transport infrastructure that
             | has 99.9999% uptime instead of 99% uptime.
             | 
             | It would be more economical for Google to use 99% uptime
             | systems but they do go the extra mile for 99.9999% uptime.
        
               | erulabs wrote:
               | As a career SRE - this is more or less categorically
               | false. In the specific case of Google, it is absolutely
               | false.
        
               | hn_go_brrrrr wrote:
               | I doubt it would be more economical. I strongly suspect
               | someone did the analysis, determined that at five 9s they
               | earn $X, at six 9s they earn $Y, and the difference
               | between the two is large enough to be worth funding the
               | projects to get there.
        
           | camhenlin wrote:
           | By that logic, nobody should be doing any construction,
           | anywhere.
           | 
           | Natural disasters are a part of living on our planet. If an
           | event is exceedingly rare, such as a volcano eruption, how
           | much time do we need to spend worrying about it? As far as
           | the Romans were aware at the time, Vesuvius was probably one
           | of the only volcanic episodes that any Roman had ever dealt
           | with, they were likely well aware that it was unlikely to
           | happen again. Today, we're a bit better off with our hoards
           | of knowledge and ability to observe to some higher level of
           | accuracy, when a volcano might erupt, so it does make a lot
           | of sense to just build whatever convenient infrastructure we
           | need right next to a volcano
        
             | dheera wrote:
             | > Natural disasters are a part of living on our planet.
             | 
             | No, they don't have to be. It's exceedingly easy to avoid
             | certain types of natural disasters by avoiding disaster-
             | prone areas. Volcanoes are easy to avoid.
        
               | dragonwriter wrote:
               | > No, they don't have to be. It's exceedingly easy to
               | avoid certain types of natural disasters by avoiding
               | disaster-prone areas. Volcanoes are easy to avoid.
               | 
               | Volcanoes, earthquakes, tsunamis, floods, and hurricanes
               | are each fairly easy to avoid, but its harder to avoid
               | them at the same time without giving up on things like
               | freshwater supplies, trade by sea, prime agricultural
               | land, etc.
               | 
               | There are reasons people live in places that periodically
               | see disaster.
        
           | Someone wrote:
           | For volcanoes, the lure is that volcanic soil is extremely
           | fertile. In Roman times, the choice for those living around
           | Vesuvius was one between "way harder to grow your food" and
           | "small chance of a volcanic eruption that may kill you"
           | 
           | https://volcanology.geol.ucsb.edu/soil.htm:
           | 
           |  _"One example of the effect of volcanoes on agricultural
           | lands is in Italy. Except for the volcanic region around
           | Naples, farming in southern Italy is exceedingly difficult
           | because limestone forms the basement rock and the soil is
           | generally quite poor. But the region around Naples, which
           | includes Mount Vesuvius, is very rich mainly because of two
           | large eruptions 35,000 and 12000 years ago that left the
           | region blanketed with very thick deposits of tephra which has
           | since weathered to rich soils. Part of this area includes
           | Mount Vesuvius. The region has been intensively cultivated
           | since before the birth of Christ. The land is planted with
           | vines, vegetables, or flowers. Every square foot of this rich
           | soil is used. For example, even a small vineyard will have,
           | in addition to grapes and spring beans on the trellises, fava
           | beans, cauliflower and onions between the trellis rows, and
           | the vineyard margin rimmed with orange and lemon trees,
           | herbs, and flowers. It also is a huge tomato growing region"_
        
           | a3n wrote:
           | There are old stone tsunami markers in coastal areas around
           | Japan. "Don't build below this point."
           | 
           | The Fukushima nuclear facility was built below that point.
           | 
           | > "It takes about three generations for people to forget.
           | Those that experience the disaster themselves pass it to
           | their children and their grandchildren, but then the memory
           | fades," Fumihiko Imamura, a professor in disaster planning at
           | Tohoku University, told the AP.
           | 
           | https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/century-old-
           | warnin...
        
           | lmilcin wrote:
           | Trains are maybe not such a huge issue. I mean... if lava
           | starts to flow you just don't go there?
        
             | dheera wrote:
             | And then you have to shut down lots of supply chains. You
             | could just route the tracks a minimum distance from active
             | volcanoes and not worry about the next eruption disrupting
             | transportation.
        
               | lmilcin wrote:
               | Material damage to a road or a track is a different
               | matter from a catastrophy where an entire settlement gets
               | wiped with all souls.
               | 
               | We have roads high up in the mountains even though there
               | is danger they get flooded, rock falls on them, the
               | ground gives, etc.
               | 
               | We build wooden houses where tornadoes are regular
               | occurrence.
               | 
               | It is not all stupidity, think of it at least partly as a
               | sign of stubbornness and perseverance of humankind.
        
           | 3v1n0 wrote:
           | It's very likely that they didn't really know that Vesuvio
           | was a volcano at all...
           | 
           | According to various sources they just consider it a
           | mountain, given that it was all covered of vegetation and
           | there was no recorded trace of activity in the previous
           | centuries.
           | 
           | Plus, as said... Growing stuff there is a pleasure (reason
           | why plenty of people still live in that area). Have you ever
           | tasted the tomatoes growing there? There's a reason why the
           | pizza you can have nearby is something you can't eat anywhere
           | else in the world!
        
       | ilamont wrote:
       | If you want to read a fantastic historical fiction novel that
       | covers these events (including Pliny the Elder's rescue mission)
       | seek out _Pompeii_ by Robert Harris.
       | 
       | https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/76010/pompeii-by-ro...
        
         | ggambetta wrote:
         | I really like Robert Harris in general, Fatherland being my
         | favorite (shame about the terrible movie adaptation!), and the
         | Cicero Trilogy being fantastic. But for some reason Pompeii
         | didn't do it for me :( It's _OK_ , it's by no means _bad_ , but
         | it left me unsatisfied.
        
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       (page generated 2021-05-12 23:01 UTC)