[HN Gopher] The failed globalization of psychedelic drugs in the...
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The failed globalization of psychedelic drugs in the early modern
world
Author : benbreen
Score : 112 points
Date : 2021-05-11 15:07 UTC (1 days ago)
(HTM) web link (www.cambridge.org)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.cambridge.org)
| wyldfire wrote:
| I followed one of the citations to this article "Constructing
| drug effects: A history of set and setting" [1]. A very
| interesting read, excerpts below:
|
| > LSD research of the 1950s was dominated by the idea that the
| drug could be used to induce and study mental illness ...
| Presupposing that patients become mentally ill under the effects
| of LSD, they were creating expectancies ... the subjects who
| participated in research were hospitalized psychiatric patients
| who had little choice about partaking in experiments. Preparation
| for sessions was poor, often consisting of the casual suggestion
| that the patient will experience a few hours of madness following
| the ingestion of the drug, not a soothing notion, to say the
| least.
|
| > And yet, as the 1950s progressed a growing number of
| publications were describing the LSD experience in radically
| different terms. ... participants in psychotherapeutically
| oriented LSD research asked to repeat the experience time and
| again (Abramson, 1960). The striking differences in the
| description of the effects of LSD can readily be explained by the
| striking differences in the set and setting which existed between
| the two schools of research. ...
|
| > Yet by the 1970s, following the abandonment of psychedelic drug
| research and the classification of psychedelics as Schedule I
| drugs, the concept of set and setting would all but disappear
| from the literature. ...
|
| > Numerous experiments conducted under strictly controlled
| conditions (double-blind, with placebos) on a wide range of
| subjects and in different cultures have demonstrated that both
| mood and actions are affected far more by what people think they
| have drunk than by what they have actually drunk ... people who
| expect drinking to result in violence become aggressive; those
| who expect it to make them feel sexy become amorous; those who
| view it as disinhibiting are demonstrative. ...
|
| > Over the last decades, principles of set and setting have been
| employed both as drug policy measures as well as by local and
| community initiatives in order to reduce the drug harms.
| Prominent examples include the case of Dutch coffee shops, as
| well as chill out rooms and free availability of water in clubs
| where MDMA is commonly used.
|
| [1] https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/2050324516683325
| benbreen wrote:
| I agree, that story is fascinating. In fact the shift in the
| 1950s in how scientists thought about psychedelics is actually
| what my second book (in progress) is about. The Abramson cited
| in that study is one of the main people I've been researching:
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harold_Alexander_Abramson
|
| So as a follow on, I know this is a long shot but if anyone
| reading this has family or professional connections to some of
| the people involved in that first generation of psychedelic
| research in the 1950s and early 1960s (yes, they are old now,
| but at least a few are still around) please get in touch with
| me. I've been conducting oral history interviews for the past
| year or two and finding out all kinds of interesting things.
| pmoriarty wrote:
| I'd recommend getting in touch with the _Psychedelic Salon_
| [1] and the _Aware Project_ [2].
|
| They have deep contacts with the psychedelic community, and
| have themselves interviewed many of the early pioneers.
|
| [1] - https://psychedelicsalon.com/
|
| [2] - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC0oErWkP157InE47YAuhzP
| g/vid...
| asdff wrote:
| It really makes you think of the mental damage that addicts are
| enduring who live in a constant state of poor set and setting.
| I can't imagine how you don't slip into psychosis being
| constantly heavily inebriated on whatever substance, but also
| chronically paranoid about your personal security living
| without any safety on the street.
| fossuser wrote:
| It also gives some context to Ted Kaczynski - when I learned
| that he was possibly dosed on massive amounts of LSD and
| screamed at while in college. It's not a huge leap from there
| to why he broke down and became the unabomber.
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_Kaczynski#Harvard_College
|
| I can't really imagine that - and it went on for a long time,
| I would be surprised if a person experience that _didn 't_
| have some kind of mental break.
|
| "In his second year at Harvard, Kaczynski participated in a
| study described by author Alston Chase as a "purposely
| brutalizing psychological experiment" led by Harvard
| psychologist Henry Murray. Subjects were told they would
| debate personal philosophy with a fellow student and were
| asked to write essays detailing their personal beliefs and
| aspirations. The essays were turned over to an anonymous
| individual who would confront and belittle the subject in
| what Murray himself called "vehement, sweeping, and
| personally abusive" attacks, using the content of the essays
| as ammunition.[26] Electrodes monitored the subject's
| physiological reactions. These encounters were filmed, and
| subjects' expressions of anger and rage were later played
| back to them repeatedly.[26] The experiment lasted three
| years, with someone verbally abusing and humiliating
| Kaczynski each week.[27][28] Kaczynski spent 200 hours as
| part of the study.[29]
|
| Kaczynski's lawyers later attributed his hostility towards
| mind control techniques to his participation in Murray's
| study.[26] Some sources have suggested that Murray's
| experiments were part of Project MKUltra, the Central
| Intelligence Agency's research into mind control.[30][31]
| Chase and others have also suggested that this experience may
| have motivated Kaczynski's criminal activities"
| lucioperca wrote:
| Hmm, lets see. Tobacco is highly addictive, while these mentioned
| drugs are not. Could it be, that you create lasting demand for
| addictive drugs very easily?
| rubyfan wrote:
| I think that combined with immediate side effects. It's
| probably socially acceptable in just about every culture to be
| buzzed (caffeine, tobacco, alcohol, coca leaf) but way less
| tolerable to be walking around doped up or hallucinating,
| throwing up as part of the experience or generally needing a
| baby sitter.
| lurquer wrote:
| > caffeine, tobacco, alcohol, coca leaf
|
| You may have missed his point. The four you mentioned are
| highly addictive. You crave them after a relatively short
| period of use.
|
| An addictive substance -- regardless of what it does or
| doesn't do -- will have a leg-up in the marketplace.
| fourier456 wrote:
| Maybe not? It's a reasonable alternative explanation. Both
| seem to be viable.
|
| A substance that doesn't incapacitate you - regardless of
| what it does or doesn't do - will have a leg-up in the
| marketplace.
| benbreen wrote:
| Author here: this is an open-access journal article, mostly about
| the colonial histories of peyote, psilocybin and ayahuasca. If
| you aren't able to access it and want to, just get in touch
| (contact info in profile) and I'd be happy to email you a PDF.
| Same goes with the primary sources I cite, although most should
| be available via Hathi Trust's emergency temporary access
| feature.
| JKCalhoun wrote:
| Laymen here, I was surprised that opium didn't get more than a
| passing mention. It seems to have made some inroads a 150 or
| years ago.
| bryanrasmussen wrote:
| I believe because opium isn't a psychedelic.
| heavyset_go wrote:
| Opium is psychoactive, but not a psychedelic.
| lurquer wrote:
| Very interesting and well-written. Thanks.
| scyzoryk_xyz wrote:
| Great article - it would make sense to me that these substances
| were, as you said 'in-ward facing', not something you hand out
| to foreign visitors but something you guard as a sacred secret.
|
| I would imagine these societies would also guard many of these
| practices locally, regionally.
|
| Makes me all the more grateful, thanks.
| Dylovell wrote:
| Thank you for making this open to the public, and thank you for
| your work.
| benbreen wrote:
| Thanks! Though I have to say, credit for the open access is
| entirely due to librarians of the UC system. I just had to
| click a button saying I wanted it to be made available. The
| work was already done via this 2019 agreement with Cambridge:
| https://osc.universityofcalifornia.edu/uc-publisher-
| relation...
| tejohnso wrote:
| > ...made it difficult for them to follow the same paths as
| commodified drugs like cacao or tobacco.
|
| This is the first I've heard of cacao being referred to as a
| drug. Is this the same cacao used in the production of chocolate?
| sharklazer wrote:
| Yes.
|
| And yeah it is. It contains similar alkaloids to coffee beans.
| Moderns process often see these removed.
|
| Pharmacopeia is strange.
| woile wrote:
| I know it's used as part of some rituals, usually before taking
| mushrooms. You take a shot in the nose. But I don't know what
| are the effects. Some people just cry or connect with emotions,
| but this is anecdotal.
| Ccecil wrote:
| From what I have read Cacao is a MAO inhibitor. Reports from
| users mixing it with mushrooms state that it increases the
| effect [1][2]
|
| [1]
| https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/4838011
| [2] https://psychedelictimes.com/potentiating-psilocybin-
| entoura...
| qntty wrote:
| In Theravada Buddhism, you can eat (dark) chocolate while
| fasting because it's historically categorized as medicine.
| orhmeh09 wrote:
| Is this a historically Buddhist categorization or is it based
| on some other reasoning? I'm surprised there is a history of
| chocolate in Buddhism.
| qntty wrote:
| That's a good question. I assumed that cocoa existed in
| Ancient India, but it's native to Mexico, so that doesn't
| really make sense. The best explanation I could find just
| from Googling it seems to be that this is actually an
| interpretation specific to Thailand of a more general rule:
|
| _FAQ 9: "In Thailand, it has been observed that Thai
| Buddhist monks are allowed to drink tea, cocoa, coffee (but
| without milk) after midday. But in some other Buddhist
| countries like Burma, monks are not allowed to do this. Is
| this part of the Vinaya rules or is this just tradition,
| custom, or local practice? If it is in the Vinaya, how do
| you explain the differences in interpretation?"
|
| A: The fourth of the Recollections of the Bhikkhu's
| Requisites is: "Properly considering medicinal requisites
| for curing the sick, I use them: simply to ward off any
| pains of illness that have arisen, and for the maximum
| freedom from disease." (OP p.47)
|
| There is an allowance in the Paali texts that 'medicinal-
| tonics' can be taken in the afternoon while 'lifetime-
| medicines' may be consumed any time they are needed. (See
| Lifetime Medicines.)
|
| There are different interpretations and practices about how
| ill a bhikkhu has to be for it to be allowable to take such
| 'medicines.' Some bhikkhus will not take anything other
| than pure water, while some will over-stretch the Rule to
| even drinking 'medicinal' food-drinks (e.g., Ovaltine) in
| the afternoon. Some bhikkhus will consider tea-leaves
| allowable (as 'herbs') while some will see it as food or as
| a 'stimulant' (caffeine) and therefore not appropriate.
| Also, the ordinary rural villagers of South East Asia
| (until very recently) would have had no tea or coffee to
| drink, so such items could be considered quite a luxury. It
| will depend on local conditions and interpretations, which
| are allowed for in the Vinaya through the Great Standards.
| (See also Lifetime Medicines.)_
|
| https://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/authors/ariyesako/laygu
| i...
| varispeed wrote:
| Cacao contains Anandamide - a cannabinoid that gives euphoric
| effect.
| adrianN wrote:
| How much cacao do you need to ingest to reach the necessary
| dosage?
| yboris wrote:
| The word "drug" has no successful definition. If you say "a
| substance that alters how your brain works", then even water is
| a drug. Sugar and coffee are almost surely drugs under any non-
| laundry-list definition you can come up with. Cacao is most
| certainly a drug ;)
| echlebek wrote:
| Yes, it contains theobromine.
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theobromine
| EamonnMR wrote:
| Chocolate contains theobromine and caffeine. The Theobromine is
| why you shouldn't feed dogs chocolate.
| hypertele-Xii wrote:
| I have some ceremonial cacao. A ceremonial portion of 45 grams
| (made into hot chocolate) produces a light euphoric glow for a
| while. It's in the same ballpark as tea, peppermint, etc. - a
| very tame, mild, natural "high". Similar to brewing a few fresh
| cannabis leaves. Nice but barely noticeable.
| GordonS wrote:
| > It's in the same ballpark as tea, peppermint, etc.
|
| I don't understand - are you saying you also get a euphoric
| glow from tea and peppermint leaves?
| [deleted]
| hypertele-Xii wrote:
| Sure. The strangest euphoric glow I've gotten from
| _salmon._
| aqme28 wrote:
| Caffeinated teas definitely.
| GordonS wrote:
| Caffeine is a mild stimulant of course, but it's not a
| feeling I'd personally equate with euphoria.
| FiveMinuteName wrote:
| How do I know what a drug is? It's simple.
|
| Drug advocates are extremely quick to engage in bad faith
| equivalence.
|
| Therefore, whatever they are equivocating is a drug.
| mc32 wrote:
| People are known to "get high"off of non drug substances
| through suggestion (their mates either actually getting
| high or pretending to get high cause subject "to get high"
| by proxy.
| emteycz wrote:
| Are you not feeling anything from green tea?
| tux3 wrote:
| Not the person you're replying to, but I can't say I've
| ever felt anything noticeably different after drinking
| tea. The hot water is nice and the tea tastes & smells
| good, but for me, nothing more.
|
| I like tea, but I only drink it occasionally.
| heavenlyblue wrote:
| Jasmine Pearls are especially strong in that sense.
| dcolkitt wrote:
| I would suggest that psychedelics saw a mass market breakthrough
| after LSD for the same reason that smartphones saw a breakthrough
| after the release of the iPhone.
|
| Sure the product category existed prior to then. But the new
| version was such a step up in user experience that it turned a
| niche product into a mass market.
| twic wrote:
| > Why did some drugs, like tobacco, move readily across cultural
| and geographic barriers in the early modern era, while others,
| such as peyote, ayahuasca, and psilocybin mushrooms, remained
| confined to specific regions?
|
| One thing that's interesting to me is that psilocybin mushrooms
| were _already_ widely distributed. Hallucinogenic mushrooms grow
| everywhere, including in Europe:
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psilocybin_mushroom#Occurrence
|
| The mushrooms you might pick or buy in Europe today are, AFAIK,
| those European varieties, not imported American ones.
|
| But we don't have a widespread tradition of using these mushrooms
| in Western Europe, do we? If you read Aristophanes, Chaucer, or
| Shakespeare, there are people getting drunk all over the place,
| but nobody ever shrooms.
|
| The Sami famously use fly agaric in rituals (concentrating it in
| human or reindeer urine). Apparently, so do other Siberian
| peoples. The people we now think of as the indigenous inhabitants
| of the Americas are descended from Siberians who crossed the
| Bering Strait tens of thousands of years ago. Perhaps they took
| the tradition with them?
|
| Europeans have known about the Sami use of mushrooms for a long
| time. Finns protected the Sami from Christian missionaries,
| because they valued their shamanic powers. Lithuanians exported
| mushrooms to the Sami:
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amanita_muscaria#Psychoactive_...
|
| And (further down the above page), scholars knew about magic
| mushrooms in the 18th century.
|
| But somehow, the magic mushroom has had no deep impact on
| European society.
|
| Or maybe it has:
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sacred_Mushroom_and_the_Cr...
|
| https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/21/opinion/santa-christmas-m...
| benbreen wrote:
| I've often wondered about why psilocybin-bearing mushrooms are
| so widely distributed but had such localized cultural impacts.
| I don't have a good answer to that one and am still thinking it
| through.
|
| I will note though that terms like "magic mushroom" can be
| confusing in that they lump together _Amanita mascaria_ with
| psilocybin mushrooms. The effects are totally different on a
| pharmacological level. I don 't see any reason to posit a
| direct link between cultures using amanita and those using
| psilocybin. That said, there are some interesting clues about
| shamanistic practices being shared across Central Asia and
| indigenous cultures of the Americas, especially if the Dene-
| Yeniseian hypothesis is true:
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dene-Yeniseian_languages
|
| A fun book that touches, speculatively, on the legacy of
| Central Asian shamanism as a common thread even in medieval and
| early modern Europe is Carlo Ginzburg's _The Night Battles_ :
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Night_Battles
| trompetenaccoun wrote:
| There are many psilocybin-containing species in the old
| world. P. semilanceata is a very common one for example, it
| grows all over the place in Europe.
|
| Why there isn't more of a tradition in Europe in recent
| history I have no idea, but there is archaeological evidence
| pointing towards at least some use in Europe in prehistoric
| times.
|
| Your paper compares psychedelic drugs with tobacco. While
| yes, tobacco is addictive, it's hardly in any way comparable
| to peyote or psilocybin mushrooms. The reason psychedelic
| drugs from the new world didn't catch on was the same reason
| they weren't eaten back home in the first place: Cultural
| reasons and political suppression. The church was opposed to
| it. These European cultures were quite repressive when you
| look at it from the lens of many native American cultures.
| Not a conductive environment for smooth trips, anyone who has
| experience with psychedelics will know this. The Mexican and
| Peruvian Inquisition were a thing. They burned most Maya
| texts and killed many of the native people. They tried to
| eradicate the cultures. It was a genocide, and experimenting
| with psychedelic drugs for spiritual enlightenment wasn't
| very useful at the time for the same reason it wasn't very
| popular among people in Nazi Germany. Smoking is different.
| If anything it takes the edge off while you're out looting
| and raping. Had they promoted psilocybin and mescaline usage,
| many of the conquistadors would have soon questioned their
| life choices and why they were being such massive dicks. They
| would have laid down their weapons.
| carlmr wrote:
| >Had they promoted psilocybin and mescaline usage, many of
| the conquistadors would have soon questioned their life
| choices and why they were being such massive dicks. They
| would have laid down their weapons.
|
| Is there any evidence for psychedelics making people nicer?
| selimthegrim wrote:
| _Datura metel_ as a common thread between India and N
| American entheogens is also interesting.
|
| Not to neglect the book _Bread of Dreams_ by Camporesi, which
| might shed some light on the ergotic hypothesis mentioned
| elsewhere. It's at least entertaining.
| Mediterraneo10 wrote:
| > Finns protected the Sami from Christian missionaries, because
| they valued their shamanic powers.
|
| Do you have a citation for that? I would expect the Finnish
| establishment to have been wary about christianization of the
| Saami because the missionary Laestadius, in evangelizing the
| Saami, also inspired them to rise up and assert their rights.
| There are also some instances in history of colonial powers
| _not_ converting certain economically-useful populations (the
| Saami provided furs, hides and meat) because they didn't want
| to risk disrupting that people's traditional economy.
| twic wrote:
| I don't have a reference to hand, i'm afraid - i read it
| somewhere in the last year, but i can't remember where. It
| could very well be nonsense.
| samatman wrote:
| > _The mushrooms you might pick or buy in Europe today are,
| AFAIK, those European varieties, not imported American ones._
|
| As I understand it, pick, yes, buy, no.
|
| Cultivated mushrooms are normally _P. cubensis_ , while
| "truffles" are grown from sclerotia-forming species such as _P.
| mexicana_ and _P. tampanensis_. Cubensis is quite widespread
| but in warmer, wetter climates than Europe has to offer. I bet
| you can guess where mexicana and tampanensis come from!
|
| _P. semilanceata_ , the liberty cap, grows throughout Europe,
| but isn't a great candidate for indoor cultivation, for various
| reasons.
| filoeleven wrote:
| It's been said--by Terence McKenna, Paul Stamets, and others in
| the psychedelic scene who you can trust to play fast and loose
| with history--that the before the beer purity laws of the
| 1500s, people brewed beer with various mindbending and toxic
| ingredients, including magic mushrooms.
|
| They also say that the church played a big role in creating the
| laws that stamped out the practice. I don't know what their
| sources are for this, so I don't really believe it about the
| mushrooms. But given that the printing press was still pretty
| new and for elites only, I can imagine how a possibly-
| widespread practice died out largely without comment in the
| historical record.
|
| https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reinheitsgebot#Purpose
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