[HN Gopher] Why you can't buy a thermapen on Amazon (2016)
___________________________________________________________________
Why you can't buy a thermapen on Amazon (2016)
Author : carabiner
Score : 395 points
Date : 2021-05-11 01:48 UTC (21 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (blog.thermoworks.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (blog.thermoworks.com)
| re wrote:
| (2016)
|
| The warning banner mentioned in the first paragraph doesn't
| appear to be on the Thermoworks website anymore. However, it
| looks like you still can't buy a Thermapen on Amazon.
| Finnucane wrote:
| Buying direct from Thermoworks is not a great difficulty.
| re wrote:
| Sure; I'm just trying to clarify which parts of the blog post
| are still accurate.
| pacificmint wrote:
| The banner might be gone, but the first row under the carousel
| contains a big box with an 'Amazon Warning' which leads
| directly to this blog post.
| re wrote:
| Good call out, I didn't notice that.
| hdkekbro wrote:
| I have the Dot (https://www.thermoworks.com/DOT) and it worked
| great for many months and during that time I cooked lots of
| perfect pieces of meat in the BBQ and in the oven. Then it
| started failing and now it works about half the time, which is
| really frustrating especially when you're expecting to hear the
| alarm and it just never rings. No, it's not the battery.
| JoblessWonder wrote:
| Have you reached out to them? I'm not affiliated with them at
| all but it seems like they really want to provide good customer
| service and offer a 2 year warranty on the DOT.
| terandle wrote:
| Article is from 2016. Searching Google/Amazon these complaints
| seem to have been resolved since this was posted.
| carabiner wrote:
| Really? On Amazon US, I still can't see any Thermoworks
| Thermapens available for sale. Just lots of similar devices.
| freyir wrote:
| Yeah, it's just a bunch of cheap (and some not-so-cheap)
| knockoffs.
| secabeen wrote:
| They may have finally gotten setup with Amazon Brand registry.
| As a past seller of used items (camera gear, electronics, and
| the like) on Amazon, there are large categories that I can't
| sell anymore, due to Brand protections that prohibit all sales
| by non-authorized parties, even just simple used goods that I
| was the original purchaser of.
| mixologic wrote:
| They havent, or at least any search on 'thermapen' or
| 'thermoworks' does not list that as a brand in the sidebar.
| Grustaf wrote:
| How can a thermometer cost 79 dollars, and who is actually
| willing to spend that?
| s0rce wrote:
| I routinely used one and it lasted 10 years. I recently
| replaced it. Few $/yr seems like a decent deal. Its nice to
| use, reads quickly and apparently accurately.
| Pathogen-David wrote:
| I was/am! It's an instant thermometer, it shows the temperature
| reading in less than a second or two. They're really useful for
| cooking.
|
| I'm sure there are cheaper brands which are just as good, but
| Thermapen has brand recognition among home chefs. (Probably
| mostly due to America's Test Kitchen's endorsement of it.)
| Grustaf wrote:
| Alright, yeah I guess it makes more sense that speed is the
| selling point, I mean cheap thermometers are also quite
| accurate.
| Cerium wrote:
| I have one, the speed is indeed the selling point. You can
| slowly insert the thermometer and find the coldest point. It is
| also so fast and easy you can use it where you would never
| bother before - such as checking to see if you microwaved your
| food enough.
| jonplackett wrote:
| This might be an unpopular opinion.
|
| I bought a Thermapen back when they were new. It was Good! It
| measured temperature fast.
|
| Then it broke, and I bought a cheap one.
|
| And it's basically completely the same. Actually more reliable -
| the thermapen stopped turning on reliably when I pulled the
| needle out.
|
| This doesn't mean it's Ok what Amazon are doing, or for companies
| to rip them off. But I don't think most people (any people?) need
| to spend that much money on a thermometer anymore.
| tonyb wrote:
| If you still have the Thermapen they will likely replace it or
| repair it for free or cheap (like $10).
| acomjean wrote:
| At least a couple years ago (when I bought a thermo-pop from
| thermopen as a gift) you couldn't buy them from amazon.
|
| Though the Amazon "review of thermometers" still list the
| thermopen as a top pick is is unavailable to buy [1]. They
| removed the thermo-pop which works quite well.
|
| [1]https://www.amazon.com/ospublishing/story/e5498f9e-e69c-442b..
| .
|
| maybe its SEO? But there it is.
| WaitWaitWha wrote:
| What risk should consumer worry about more? Increased risk of PII
| & financial data loss, or increased risk of purchasing fake &
| overpriced products?
| nimos wrote:
| Cannot say enough about their customer support. In 1:45 I called
| and got a replacement part shipped to me free of charge. That's
| one minute, 45 seconds. About 30s of that was me telling them I
| had ordered something earlier that day and them checking if it
| had shipped already.
|
| Great products as well.
| waheoo wrote:
| Amazon / eBay arbitrage is a thing.
|
| Made some really good money until my Amazon prime account got
| banned.
| wmf wrote:
| You're the reason we can't have nice things. Or not really you,
| but Amazon's marketplace business model that enabled your
| arbitrage. IMO the value from marketplace arbitrage and FBA
| "entrepreneurship" is less than the market damage caused by
| counterfeiting.
| waheoo wrote:
| That's fucking rich.
|
| Amazon was built on dropshipping.
|
| It's the same damn thing.
|
| Every bookseller on Amazon and eBay buys their books from one
| of 4 major publisher.
| mbesto wrote:
| Has anyone else started to change their buying habits to buy
| direct from brands websites instead of buying on Amazon?
|
| I simply don't trust Amazon for certain purchases. I feel like
| it's actually made me trust brands _more_ instead of commoditized
| products.
| twodave wrote:
| If I'm buying the usual consumable goods, I'll buy from Amazon.
| There's not much point in counterfeiting those for the most
| part, and the financial risk is very low in the first place.
| Anything more expensive than $100 or so I'm going to try and
| find a) high quality materials and b) made as local as
| possible. It's not always possible. For those type of product,
| though, I'd rather spend 3x the amount, 1/5 as often.
| alasdair_ wrote:
| The most counterfeited good I've found on amazon is
| moderately priced shampoo. It's cheap and bulky and I have no
| idea why it's faked but it's super common.
| zwaps wrote:
| Yes, I buy everything above 50 euros straight from the
| manufacturer.
|
| Nowadays, most companies sell directly to consumers, shipping
| is fast enough and you generally get a genuine, updated and
| properly stored item.
|
| I usually make the following choice:
|
| For the item I want, is there a brand I trust, eg that designs
| and produces a high quality item, if possible locally? For
| example, I know some companies for speakers, kitchenwares and
| appliances that produce here in the EU (and I know people
| working there). I buy from them directly, since I care about
| not getting a fake.
|
| Or, is every product just a rebranding of the same thing from
| one or two factories in China anyway? If so, I go to amazon and
| buy one of the dozen identical trashware versions and accept
| that it will break. This bounds my willingness to spend.
|
| This strategy works for me. Only choosing Amazon as seller of
| last resort has reduced my issues with products to zero.
| paxys wrote:
| I have yet to come across a brand which offers reasonable
| shipping options and good customer service on their website.
| Despite all of Amazon's other problems, their logistics and
| support moat is deep enough that there is still no good option
| B.
| annoyingnoob wrote:
| I've been an Amazon customer since at least 1999. I've been
| shipped many counterfeit/knock-off products that were sold as
| the real thing. I lost my honeymoon pictures on a fake SD card,
| that was over 10 years ago. The problems of fake products have
| only gotten worse.
|
| Its now rare that I buy anything on Amazon that costs over $100
| and I always cross shop for those things. Amazon is good at
| commodity items but not much else. If I'm buying a name brand
| product over $100 I won't buy it on Amazon because its most
| likely fake or has no warranty.
|
| I really do not appreciate that Amazon has become Aliexpress in
| the last few years.
| andoofthewoods wrote:
| i just avoid Amazon flat out for most purchases. No way to tell
| what you're buying is genuine, and I've been burnt far too many
| times.
| beardbound wrote:
| I buy directly a lot. Shopify has made this easier. For
| electronics I buy most of my stuff either directly, or through
| someplace like Best Buy. They aren't always the cheapest, but
| they at least they don't send me counterfeit products. I mostly
| order stuff from Amazon stuff that I might get on Alibaba. All
| I order some music stuff from them. I prefer to order from
| Sweetwater, but they've been having stock issues due to demand
| during the pandemic. Although I'm still more likely to order
| from Guitar Center than Amazon.
| the_only_law wrote:
| I've never had problems with fraudulent items or anything
| buying off Amazon, but I do find myself buying from it less and
| less.
|
| Sometimes this is because I simply can't find what I want. More
| often, this is because the biggest benefit I gained from
| Amazon, namely the next day or two day shipping via Prime does
| not seem to be as common anymore.
| dagw wrote:
| I only use Amazon when they're the fastest shipping option and
| I'm in a hurry, when they are a lot cheaper, or when I'm
| actually looking for the no brand Chinese knock off.
| judge2020 wrote:
| I'll compare prices and if the price difference (including
| their shipping cost vs Prime) for the manufacturer/brand
| website is only $10-$15 then i'll most likely use the
| manufacturer website (especially if they use a not-horrible
| storefront system like shopify). This doesn't happen often,
| though, as even USPS shipping for medium or large items is
| expensive.
| cammikebrown wrote:
| I haven't used Amazon in over 18 months.
| newsbinator wrote:
| Yes, I gave up on Amazon recently because their outsourced
| customer service has become so bad.
|
| Unlike generic customer service, they used to solve problems.
|
| Now they simply go through the motions of appearing to solve
| problems.
|
| It's really evident when a company's customer service
| priorities change in this direction.
| ryanianian wrote:
| I've had good luck with the outsourced service reps. It's
| over chat usually and they know which canned responses to use
| for common scenarios (didn't arrive, DOA, counterfeit, etc).
|
| What problem were they unable to resolve?
| ghostpepper wrote:
| Not the poster you replied to but in my experience (missed
| delivery estimates, or more often missed/ignored delivery
| instructions) the only weapon in their arsenal is offering
| a $5 gift card to spend on your next Amazon order.
| newsbinator wrote:
| I ordered an item for Mother's Day. A few days later I
| noticed it still had no shipping date, and I was unable to
| upgrade the shipping option to 2-day shipping.
|
| I contacted Live Chat and they said:
|
| * "I will add rush delivery notes for you"
|
| * "we will do the rest for you with a rush delivery"
|
| Then it was the Friday before Mother's Day and I got a
| notification the item will be delivered some time the
| following week.
|
| I contacted Amazon Live Chat again:
|
| * We never promised you a specific delivery date.
|
| That's completely true, Amazon.
|
| Turns out "I will add rush delivery notes for you" and "we
| will do a rush delivery" is a meaningless customer service
| thing you can say like, "your call is important to us".
|
| This doesn't require taking any action to expedite the
| order or, failing that, telling the customer who is asking
| you about delivery for Mother's Day that they need to order
| a different product if they expect it to arrive in time.
|
| So basically Amazon Customer Service is now no better or
| worse than any generic chat bot you can use to accomplish
| (or fail to accomplish) the same thing.
|
| It's my own fault: if an item had no delivery date the week
| before Mother's Day, I should have canceled earlier.
| Waterluvian wrote:
| I think you'll get a lot of one variety of responses so I feel
| compelled to share:
|
| I don't dismiss any of the concerns regarding Amazon and
| authenticity and quality. But I have yet to have it affect me
| after hundreds of purchases for many thousands of dollars.
|
| Maybe it's just the kinds of things I buy. Maybe I don't notice
| the occasional knock off. Maybe I'm just naturally good at
| avoiding dark corners.
|
| As a result I haven't changed my behaviour at all.
| jacobolus wrote:
| > Maybe I don't notice the occasional knock off.
|
| That's likely. Many of the knock-offs are very convincing,
| especially if you don't compare them side by side with the
| original.
| jghn wrote:
| I take the approach of how big a deal it is if I get a
| counterfeit. If not a big deal and/or it's likely all coming
| from the same Chinese factory anyways I just go through
| Amazon. If I want to maximize the chance that I get the real
| deal I try to get as close to the source as possible
| callmeal wrote:
| >I take the approach of how big a deal it is if I get a
| counterfeit.
|
| You could lose your global entry / TSA precheck privileges.
|
| [0] https://www.racked.com/2018/1/8/16849298/amazon-
| counterfeits...
| themacguffinman wrote:
| Well do you actually verify the authenticity of your
| purchases? It depends on the product category somewhat, some
| categories are absolutely rampant with Amazon knockoffs in a
| way that you literally cannot avoid by scrutinizing listings
| or eyeballing it. The first and only PC thermal paste that I
| bought on Amazon was from an official listing but I was
| delivered a straight up knockoff. The thermal paste company
| is a common knockoff target so they provide serial numbers
| that you can use verify the authenticity of your purchase.
| The knockoff product had the audacity to include a fake
| serial number, presumably because they know most people
| wouldn't bother checking. The knockoff paste is a slightly
| different shade of gray, but I only know that because I had
| previously owned a (verified) authentic paste as a point of
| reference.
| Waterluvian wrote:
| Did it work just as well?
| themacguffinman wrote:
| I don't know, I'm not going to risk expensive PC hardware
| and waste time trying to find out.
| jcims wrote:
| Same. I'm probably close to $100K in purchases over the last
| 15 years from Amazon.
|
| There is one product I've bought that I'm reasonably
| confident is a counterfeit based solely on the build quality,
| and unfortunately it's a Leviton GFCI plug [1]. Not exactly
| something I want to risk to inferior quality control.
|
| 1 - https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0037NXKY0
| honkycat wrote:
| I'm definitely in the same place.
|
| My philosophy is Avoid Amazon for everything at this point. The
| counterfeit is out of control
| diogenescynic wrote:
| I tried that but a lot of companies just aren't set up for it
| anymore and actually offer better customer service from Amazon
| or eBay because they are held to some sort of dispute process.
| I recently bought something that went on sale for a few hundred
| dollars less literally a week after I received it. I emailed
| and requested a refund and it was a huge issue and hassle. Same
| thing wit canceling an order for a backordered baby product and
| the company mailed it weeks after I requested to cancel it then
| refused to refund it despite it having now gone to an address I
| no longer lived at... I now prefer buying from Amazon. I bought
| a $1400 tv and it somehow broke like 5 months later but Amazon
| sent someone out to pick it up and refunded the order. BestBuy
| would never do that.. they'd tell to take a hike and deal with
| the manufacturer. I bought a bbq and it was delivered days
| later whereas Ace Hardware needed weeks..
| robbiemitchell wrote:
| No, because most sellers have:
|
| - Incredibly slow shipping
|
| - Painful return processes
| Spivak wrote:
| - Expensive shipping
|
| - 3rd party customer service that has no power to do anything
|
| The fact that companies are paying / making me pay retail for
| logistics is the dumbest thing ever. The whole value of a
| "store" (i.e. a place that holds stuff) is the logistics and
| customer service. If you just want to be a manufacturer
| that's totally fine power to ya but then get your products to
| distributors and stores.
| [deleted]
| johnwheeler wrote:
| 100%. I've been thinking about this a lot lately actually. I
| remember how happy Amazon used to make me, and now you can't
| trust any of the reviews and worse you can't trust the
| merchandise.
|
| Not to mention that Chinese knock-off manufacturing has only
| gotten better over the last 5 years. Take a look at the
| Benchmade knife comparisons on youtube.
| [deleted]
| fireattack wrote:
| I buy from Amazon purely for 30-day return policy which is
| quick and painless to process (single click, drop it to UPS
| store, done. Don't even need printer, tape or box if the
| original package it still intact.)
|
| Can't say I have the same experience from other ecommerce
| websites, brand ones or aggregated ones like BB or Newegg.
| ilikepi wrote:
| Absolutely, direct or trusted retailers only now. I don't trust
| Amazon for any purchase anymore. I got tired of putting in so
| much effort to researching products and still feeling like I
| was rolling the dice.
|
| The video streaming service is the only thing keeping my Prime
| subscription active, and I'm hoping to drop it before the
| renewal date in July this year.
| sameboat632746 wrote:
| Yeah I loved Amazon but have moved away from them for
| everything but things that have really low risk like Kindle,
| video games, or toilet paper.
|
| I used to still use Amazon for research and reviews but now
| reviews are useless.
|
| Now my biggest reason to visit Amazon is for price comparison
| and price history via camelcamcelcamel extension.
| city41 wrote:
| Recently I have started comparison shopping more and I almost
| always find Amazon is the most expensive option. I have Prime
| as well. For example I was shopping for dishwasher detergent
| and found Amazon was more than double what Target charged, and
| Target offers free shipping if your order is at least $35. And
| yes, I was comparing unit prices.
|
| I also find Amazon prices with free shipping almost always end
| up being a tad higher than other places when you add in their
| shipping costs. ie item is $8, shipping is $4 at some
| competitor, where it will be $13 with free shipping at Amazon.
|
| It's gotten to the point my wife and I pretty sure we are
| cancelling Prime and no longer shopping at Amazon.
| leetcrew wrote:
| imo it's worth paying a little more just to get AMZL
| shipping. for my address, it's the only option that actually
| gets here in two days, and every day is a business day for
| them. UPS is usually two days, but misses the estimate a good
| fraction of the time. fedex is a little worse, and USPS
| priority mail is more like 10-12 business days.
| meragrin_ wrote:
| Amazon still has two day shipping? Could have fooled me. It
| is usually 3-4 days minimum, but usually more. "In stock"
| wiper blade, ordered yesterday but won't arrive until
| Monday. Probably won't even "ship" until Sunday.
| dragontamer wrote:
| There are other stores that specialize in particular items.
|
| Jetpens for stationary. Technical books can be bought directly
| from the publishers. Microcenter for computer parts. Uline and
| Office Depot for office items.
|
| Amazon has benefits from big brands who can police their stuff
| better than small brands. But smaller brands all seem to be
| complaining about Amazon these days, so I do try to buy direct
| I'd possible.
| jacobolus wrote:
| > Uline
|
| As long as you don't mind buying from militant far-right-
| extremist plutocrats.
| SyzygistSix wrote:
| Do you have more information regarding Uline being far
| right plutocrats?
| thefourthchime wrote:
| Yeah, recently I bought a knife from bladehq because I was
| worried about getting a knockoff off Amazon.
|
| Two weeks later I got an email from bladehq that they had been
| exploited and my credit card was now known to hackers.
|
| So, fucked if you do, fucked if you don't.
| brink wrote:
| That's like getting food poisoning when you go out to eat, so
| you just assume all restaurants will give you food poisoning.
| andyana wrote:
| Not even food poisoning, more like your car for broken
| into, but nothing was stolen. The meal was fantastic,
| however.
| pottertheotter wrote:
| I've been using the pay with PayPal option whenever a site
| has it for this reason.
| ryanianian wrote:
| PayPal will not help you if you inadvertently buy a scam
| product.
|
| I bought a TV light strip doodad for $20. What arrived was
| an empty box. It shipped from the US, but they wanted me to
| ship it back to China. PayPal could not have cared less.
| They agreed I needed to send it back to China. I escalated
| very far up their chain. Nothing.
|
| Apparently this is a common scam and PayPal does zero to
| help.
| pottertheotter wrote:
| I use my credit card with PayPal purchases, so I think a
| chargeback would cover that.
| abqio wrote:
| Paypal, Privacy.com, and Blur can solve that problem. I'm
| sure there are others.
| abqio wrote:
| I buy direct from the manufacturer whenever possible. When
| that's not possible, I go for a retailer with a somewhat
| "verified" supply chain. Walmart, etc. will do. Even Ebay is
| better because at least your purchase isn't coming from a
| comingled inventory.
|
| This is coming from someone who used to buy from Amazon over
| everyone else because it was so darn convenient.
|
| After seeing all the horror stories and having friends receive
| counterfeit or obviously defective, returned, and resold as new
| items; I just can't trust them anymore. Especially for things
| that go in or on my body. Or my pets for that matter.
| cout wrote:
| If amazon is so bad (and my experience agrees that it is),
| why hasn't anyone stepped up to offer a viable alternative?
| The closest competitor I know of is walmart, but given the
| items they carry in their stores, it's hard to convince
| myself to visit their website when I want to get something
| quality.
| dagw wrote:
| I don't think it is possible to have a viable alternative
| to Amazon without running into the same problems Amazon
| has.
|
| The alternatives that more and more people seems to be
| preferring is specialty sites focusing on just one or two
| product categories or the manufacturer making it easier to
| buy directly from them.
| bkjelden wrote:
| I've been buying a lot of tools lately, and I've found myself
| in the spot where I trust Harbor Freight's supply chain more
| than Amazon's.
|
| Never thought I'd see the day where I was choosing Harbor
| Freight for quality.
| cout wrote:
| Some of my favorite tools are from harbor freight. As an
| example, the 1/4" ratchet with composite handle is such a
| pleasure to use compared to any other ratchet I've owned. I
| thought it was a gimmick, but I gave it a shot and now it's
| now my favorite ratchet.
| jdc0589 wrote:
| gotta get that Harbor Freight gold plated ratchet though.
| flavius29663 wrote:
| harbor freight is excellent for some things, and abysmal
| for others. my cart saved my back, it's worth every penny
| of the 20 or so dollars. The dremel bits were just trash
| - I couldn't get one use out of them, same with the bench
| grinder.
| dralley wrote:
| I extend this rule to any electronics above $30 and any
| chargers for said electronics. Sometimes cables too, I've
| seen horror stories about miswired USB-C cables, and some of
| the cheap micro-USB cables I've bought were uselessly bent up
| within 2 months. $3 cheaper isn't worth the risk, or the
| e-waste.
| abqio wrote:
| Now that you mention it, "things that can start a fire" are
| also on the no Amazon list for me. Mainly electronics and
| especially if it's something that will stay plugged in.
|
| I suppose that category also includes safety critical
| items. Like batteries intended for weapon lights, or
| offroad recovery gear.
| cgriswald wrote:
| The last straw for me was receiving and obviously used (and
| gross) $800 kitchen appliance. They took the return but I
| took my business to the manufacturer.
|
| I basically only buy books from Amazon now, and even there
| I don't think they make print-on-demand obvious enough, and
| I won't buy print-on-demand if the book is otherwise
| available because I've gotten too many bad printings.
|
| The last time I posted about it here people defended Amazon
| because of their return policies. Well, the printing errors
| aren't always immediately obvious. One reference book o
| purchased was missing a page but had a duplicate of the
| previous page. When printing errors are obvious, I feel
| like either Amazon is trying to see if I'll complain or
| they're trying to get me to do their QC.
|
| And even if they don't make me return the bad one...
| waiting another day or two isn't great. I'd rather wait
| three days knowing I have to wait three days than wait one
| day, have to contact Amazon, and wait one more day.
|
| I have a kindle, and I love it, and I buy books for it. I
| have Prime mostly because when I was buying a lot it made
| sense and now I sometimes watch Prime Video. But anything
| else is just too much work to read through fake reviews and
| worry about counterfeits or used goods masquerading as new.
| strenholme wrote:
| About the fake reviews, there's a website which is pretty
| good for finding those: https://fakespot.com/
| heavyset_go wrote:
| I bought a power strip on Amazon with a surge protector
| that didn't work that fried some of my electronics, and it
| was under $30.
| strenholme wrote:
| In my experience, the chances of getting something
| counterfeit on eBay is higher than it is on Amazon. I had an
| issue where I bought a blu ray on eBay to save a couple
| bucks; the product the arrived was clearly a pirated BD-R.
| Another time, I bought a couple of batteries for my laptop on
| eBay; the batteries were clearly counterfeit and of inferior
| construction than the more expensive original batteries.
|
| I have never had experiences like that with Amazon, but I
| have read stories on the internet. I believe Amazon making it
| easier to leave negative feedback than eBay is one reason
| this kind of nonsense is less common on Amazon.
| rectang wrote:
| And yet, apparently selling counterfeit crap to rubes is
| better business than selling legit product. I may not trust
| Amazon to sell me anything these days, but I trust them to
| know their market and to mercilessly maximize their margins.
| allochthon wrote:
| I think it's the lack of price vetting on Amazon's part that
| makes me hesitant to buy certain things there, e.g.,
| groceries. That wariness happened after buying several
| packages of dried beans that were also available at Walmart
| (a retailer in the US), and then realizing I had paid
| literally three times the Walmart price.
|
| Now I buy directly from Walmart if something's available
| there, because I have more confidence that their usual price
| controls are at work.
| crazygringo wrote:
| Unfortunately no -- Amazon is often ~20% cheaper than a brand's
| website, plus offers free shipping which brand sites often
| don't, and (very importantly) I can trust that I can return an
| item with zero hassle if it doesn't work as advertised.
|
| Also the majority of brands don't even sell directly, only
| through retailers like Amazon, Wal-Mart, or Target anyways.
| happytoexplain wrote:
| Absolutely. Amazon is as good as street corner counterfeits for
| most things.
| t0mbstone wrote:
| My favorite way to buy is when manufacturers have their own
| store on amazon and maintain inventory in Amazon warehouses via
| Prime.
|
| On Amazon, I can see the seller's name at a glance and I can
| tell if it's the official seller. Buying it via Prime means I
| get free shipping and it often comes in the mail literally the
| next day (since I live in a major city with Amazon warehouses).
|
| If something is wrong, I know I can just drop the package off
| at the UPS Store down the street to return it and the refund
| immediately shows up in my Amazon account without any hassle.
|
| Buying directly from the manufacturer's web site, on the other
| hand, is a huge hassle. I have to create an account, enter my
| address and shipping info, and add my payment info (great, now
| my credit card info is stored in yet another place that could
| potentially be hacked), and the pay for the item. This whole
| checkout process is unique for every vendor web site, and when
| the item is shipped, I'm lucky if it arrives within two weeks,
| much less next day. Returning the item (if something is wrong
| with it) is also a huge hassle, and many third party vendors
| won't cover the return shipping costs, and may only replace the
| item for an identical one.
|
| I've never once encountered a fraudulent product when ordering
| directly from an official manufacturer on Amazon Prime. That
| only ever happens when I buy from third party sellers or buy
| used products.
| [deleted]
| Reason077 wrote:
| Here in the UK, ETI Ltd (the manufacturer of Thermapens) often
| sells refurbished units cheaply through eBay. I've bought several
| this way and they are fantastic!
| didibus wrote:
| ETI Ltd (the actual manufacturer) also sells them on
| Amazon.co.uk
|
| https://www.amazon.co.uk/sp?_encoding=UTF8&asin=B01MQN9MLL&i...
| 3guk wrote:
| Thanks for the tip, just purchased one of the eBay refurbs -
| always happy to buy manufacturer refurbished items.
| ahepp wrote:
| Makes me wonder. My Thermapen sucks. I got it as a gift 5-10
| years ago, and it seemed to come in nice official packaging. It
| has _never_ met the settle time claims.
| katbyte wrote:
| It's probably either counterfeit or defective
| timvdalen wrote:
| What have you tried it on? Mine works extremely fast when it's
| _in_ something that it can read (like meat, or hot oil), but
| the Thermapen doesn't work for air temperature (not enough heat
| conduction, I would guess).
|
| I also have a ThemoWorks/ETI ChefAlarm, and the difference in
| read time between the two are very apparent.
| s0rce wrote:
| If you wave it around frantically in air it works well
| enough, certainly not the intended application and if that is
| your main use then there are better tools.
| Reason077 wrote:
| Mine works well enough for taking air temperature. Obviously
| not instant read, but if you leave it out for a minute or two
| before reading it, it gives pretty accurate results. (I guess
| that's no different from any ordinary air thermometer?)
| a_bonobo wrote:
| Birkenstock had a similar story - too many resellers, lots of
| counterfeit trash, so they stopped working with Amazon (they
| still work with Amazon subsidiaries though)
|
| https://footwearnews.com/2020/business/retail/birkenstock-am...
| annexrichmond wrote:
| I've owned a Thermapen for many years now and extremely happy
| with it.
|
| I brew beer, roast coffee, smoke meat, bake, etc. and accuracy is
| really important to me. I've gone through so many thermometers
| before I got this.
|
| My breaking point was when I owned 3 random ones from Amazon and
| they all gave me different readings, and they weren't even
| linearly different either -- like at 140oF it would be 15-20o
| apart and at boiling it was 5-10o, so it was impossible to infer
| the true temp. I tossed a batch of beer down the sink out of
| frustration because of this.
| fred_is_fred wrote:
| Seconded. This is one of the things you buy in life and keep
| forever and are never unhappy with it. Worth every cent.
| warmfuzzykitten wrote:
| Agree. I bought one in February 2012 on Amazon "Sold by:
| ThermoWorks, Inc.", apparently before counterfeits became an
| issue. It's fast and accurate and still working fine.
| jjeaff wrote:
| I don't think counterfeits for Thermapen have ever been a
| problem. Just unofficial distributors selling Thermapen from
| ETI or reselling after purchasing from Thermoworks.
| randompwd wrote:
| How can you state this?
|
| You've commented multiple times and only once disclaimed
| that you were a former competitor to Thermoworks trying to
| sell the thermapen also.
|
| You are poisoning this conversation. PUT A DISCLAIMER IN
| YOUR COMMENTS.
| frakkingcylons wrote:
| No need to shout.
| ryanlol wrote:
| How is he poisoning the conversation? The detail he is
| neglecting to mention only strengthens his position.
| szc wrote:
| I do own a much older generation Thermapen - the automatic switch
| is failing, so I need to open it up and fix it... but I do find
| it a useful tool.
|
| For the HN angle, my understanding on how these devices get such
| a fast reading is to have a decent calibration of the thermal
| mass of the probe tip, some reasonably quick and precisely timed
| readings and then using some math to interpolate the exponential
| curve to predict what the probe temperature is. After a few
| seconds thermal equilibrium is reached, but it is likely you've
| already been looking at something close to the final value.
|
| [edit] after doodling on paper, not sure it is necessary to know
| the thermal mass of the probe. Time to do some experiments!
| tonyb wrote:
| If you don't want to fix it yourself Thermoworks will repair it
| for next to nothing. I think I paid like $10 to have one with a
| similar issue fixed. Normally it is something with the case
| around the pivot point that causes it to stop turning on (try
| squeezing it in that area to test that theory).
|
| The speed compared to most other thermometers is that that is
| uses a thermocouple vs a thermistor. The cheaper ThermoPop uses
| a thermistor and takes about twice as long to get a reading.
| [deleted]
| tristor wrote:
| My Thermapen Mk4 is one of the best kitchen purchases I've made,
| and that's quite a statement considering my spend on kitchen
| gadgets, tools, etc. People buying knockoffs or trying to go with
| lesser options are the perfect example of being "penny wise and
| pound foolish". For $65 shipped on sale, it was well worth the
| cost, and absolutely is world's better than any of the lesser
| options I tried before. Getting a rib roast just right, making
| candy, and doing BBQ are all areas where it's excelled and I've
| struggled with prior options.
|
| One thing I've learned across all my many hobbies and in my
| professional life is that it's always worth the money to buy
| quality tools. They last longer, work better, and reduce the
| likelihood of error and failure in your work. There's a reason I
| don't buy junk, and I thought I could get away with it at first
| with cooking and learned the hard way not to. Now I have a
| Thermapen Mk4 along with other proper cooking tools, and it's
| massively upped my game and simplified the task of pulling off
| complex recipes.
| mef wrote:
| an alternative approach to "always buy quality tools" that has
| worked for me:
|
| 1. start with a cheap tool
|
| 2. use it until it breaks or until you can't tolerate its
| shortcomings anymore
|
| 3. use what you learned from #2 to research and purchase a high
| quality tool
|
| if you never get to #2, then you didn't really need anything
| more than the cheap tool for this particular use case
| tarr11 wrote:
| I used to do this but life is too short and there is no joy.
|
| Some products take years to get to #2, they just are really
| poor at what they do and you don't even realize that they are
| terrible until you see someone with a better version.
|
| Examples: Toasters, Knives, Cars, Chairs, Mobile Devices
| vbezhenar wrote:
| That's good when your money is unlimited. But when I have
| $2000 to spend and I can buy one Festool tool or five Bosch
| tools, I'd think twice, especially if I have no idea what I
| really need.
| grandmczeb wrote:
| I'm curious about your example - I have a cheap toaster and
| it seems OK (I think it was $40 new on Amazon?) What am I
| missing out on?
| Arelius wrote:
| Well, the Cadillac of that category might be the Breville
| Smart Oven Air. In which case you might be missing out on
| a lot.
|
| Having said that, there are sometimes cases where the
| cheap item does the job perfectly well, and for you, the
| cheap toaster might be that.
| Spacemolte wrote:
| I wholeheartedly agree. I have tried the cheaper stuff which
| when it breaks for no reason after a few years, is not really
| cheap at all.
|
| I use mine for bbq, meats, egg based sauces, baking, and
| probably a few other things that I didn't plan on using it for
| when i bought it.
|
| What other tools have you spent a little extra on to get
| quality, if you don't mind me asking :)
| azinman2 wrote:
| Not the OP, but in the kitchen, knifes. Makes a huge
| difference.
|
| Tips for inexpensive but quality kitchen tools:
|
| The iSi basics silicone spatula is the best spatula that you
| could ever use, and is like $11 on Amazon. Get the larger
| version.
|
| Don't buy non-stick pans. Get cast iron and/or carbon steel,
| learn how to use it, and you'll get non-toxic non-stick
| performance in a pan that you can give your grandkids when
| you die. Carbon steel is always inexpensive, and with cast
| iron the price goes up to have a nicer finish but is quite
| usable even at $25.
| mourner wrote:
| As someone who got heavily into baking bread / pastry and
| occasionally meat during the pandemic, I can't recommend
| Thermapen enough -- it's the ultimate cooking thermometer. Also,
| I live in Europe so I ordered it from the UK, and ETI's support
| is awesome and they ship really fast.
| jjeaff wrote:
| The real reason they don't want their thermometers sold on amazon
| is because they are merely official US distributors of the
| Thermapen which is made by a British company, ETI.
|
| https://thermometer.co.uk/99-thermapen-thermometers
|
| You can buy them from European distributors in bulk for less than
| MSRP and sell them for the same price as thermoworks on amazon
| and still make a profit. The only reason they were going for $179
| previously is because thermoworks was buying the thermometers
| from sellers and reporting them as counterfeit. Thus making it
| difficult for sellers to sell them which keeps supply low.
|
| They have fraudulently filed copyright removals and counterfeit
| accusations on amazon multiple times for Thermapen listings that
| don't use the "thermoworks" name.
|
| You can see that thermoworks does not own the Thermapen
| trademark.
|
| https://tmsearch.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=doc&state=4803:hv...
|
| Edit: apparently, you can't link to a trademark search directly,
| so you would need to go to the basic search and enter"Thermapen".
|
| https://tmsearch.uspto.gov/bin/gate.exe?f=login&p_lang=engli...
| macNchz wrote:
| They discuss the relationship between the companies on their
| website https://blog.thermoworks.com/thermometer/thermoworks-
| eti-ltd...
| ThrowawayR2 wrote:
| Interesting to see this and contrast it with all the HN
| posters leaping to the conclusion that the unsubstantiated
| accusation of fraud from the GP poster is true and upvoting
| it. If one follows the link from the accuser, all it shows is
| that the trademark for "Thermapen" is registered to ETI,
| which is explained by the blog post on Thermoworks web site.
| Zero evidence of wrongdoing has been presented.
| Cthulhu_ wrote:
| And yet, I like to see a commenter making one claim and the
| comments rebuking it, instead of the comment being
| downvoted into oblivion or outright removed. Seeing the
| process in action. It also helps that HN doesn't hide
| comment threads by default, so every comment and its
| responses are out in the open.
| jjeaff wrote:
| The evidence is right there in their own blog post.
|
| They are a distributor of the ETI Thermapen and nothing
| more except 'good friends' with the owners of ETI and that
| they have contributed design ideas to some versions of the
| Thermapen. Just as any distributor does. Note how they try
| to make it sound like they have some sort of ownership of
| the product, but the only thing they have ownership of is
| the Thermoworks name and a contract with ETI to be the sole
| US distributor.
|
| What in their blog post makes you think they have the right
| to claim copyright infringement for someone selling a
| Thermapen they bought directly from ETI?
| [deleted]
| namdnay wrote:
| If they're the sole US distributor doesn't that mean
| they're the only ones allowed to sell them in the US?
| wizzwizz4 wrote:
| So if I buy one, I'm not allowed to sell it after I'm
| done with it? That's irregular, to say the least.
| Inhibit wrote:
| Not on Amazon. They do make actual no-sale agreements
| with manufacturers (looking at you, Warner Media) to not
| sell used product and boot anyone who tries. Which, ah,
| is great right until they're a near monopoly.
|
| But this looks more like the reseller is trying to wreak
| havoc with lawful competition sans an agreement with
| Amazon. They may not look kindly on it if they see what's
| happening. Competition where it's not being intentionally
| stifled is the business model.
| TheSpiceIsLife wrote:
| Do we all agree, dear reader, there's a distinction
| between _distributor_ and _you selling your used kitchen
| tools_?
|
| If _you, dear reader_ , had a _sole distributor_
| agreement with an OEM would you do what you could to
| protect your reputation and the brand?
| powersnail wrote:
| Genuine question: what is the distinction between a
| consumer and a distributor in the context of rights of
| selling an item that they own?
|
| Which law prohibits the distributor from selling
| thermometers that they own?
|
| How come an agreement between ETI and Thermoworks have
| any legal power over anybody else?
| mike_d wrote:
| An exclusive distributor agreement usually means within a
| given territory, only a single party may buy product from
| the manufacturer or buy at below MSRP (depending on the
| agreement). This is not enforced by law, but by a
| contractual agreement.
|
| You can always buy the product at retail, from another
| country, or directly from the manufacturer (if they will
| sell to you) and sell the product at retail.
| jjeaff wrote:
| It doesn't. If you don't have a contract with pricing
| stipulations, then you have no obligation to sell at MSRP
| or MAP.
| Thorrez wrote:
| First-sale doctrine says if you buy something, you have
| the right to resell it. I'm not exactly sure what sole
| distributor means. I think it means that ETI will try to
| refuse bulk sales to anyone else in the US.
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-sale_doctrine
| smnrchrds wrote:
| As always with the laws, there are exceptions and it is
| more complicated than one might expect.
|
| https://www.thefashionlaw.com/resource-center/gray-
| market-go...
| gandalfian wrote:
| Not if it's a fake Rolex. Trademarks provide a lot of
| wiggle room for firms to make a legal nightmare if they
| chose.
| namdnay wrote:
| First sale is only for consumers right? I mean it
| wouldn't apply if you're doing it multiple times for
| profit.
|
| Honest question, I really don't know
| jjeaff wrote:
| First sale doctrine applies to businesses as well.
| namdnay wrote:
| ah good to know! I found "Kirtsaeng v. John Wiley & Sons,
| Inc.", I wonder if it's related, or if physical goods
| were already considered resaleable anyway
|
| One side question: how do you manage the warranty?
| Presumably as the reseller you will need to handle the
| legal minimum warranty (how long is that in the US?) by
| shipping the article yourself back to the UK?
| mike_d wrote:
| > you will need to handle the legal minimum warranty
|
| With the exception of specific types of products (cars)
| or situations where consumers are gravely at risk
| (recalls), there is no mandatory warranty in the US. Your
| only requirement as a reseller is to pass on any warranty
| from the manufacturer, and allow customers to read a
| written warranty before making a purchase.
| Spooky23 wrote:
| Not true. There are implied warranties of merchantability
| and fitness.
|
| It's one of the reasons why Amazon takes such pains to
| make the questionable assertion that they are at arms
| length for every transaction. Fraudulent or grey market
| stuff often fails the fitness test.
|
| The same crap used to happen with fake cameras and
| electronics in Manhattan. The stores would "go out of
| business" and reopen the next day under a new guise to
| avoid legal consequences. Now you just create a new
| merchant on Amazon.
| sfifs wrote:
| I don't know why you're getting down voted as it's a
| common misconception.
|
| Sole distributorship means your company is the only one
| in a particular territory that the *manufacturer* will
| sell to directly - usually in exchange for KPIs around
| marketing, distribution and maybe service in addition to
| sales.
|
| Anyone else can buy it in an outside territory - for
| example from another distributor or even from the
| manufacturer itself (strange things are known to happen
| when people's incentives are tied to sales targets) and
| sell it in your territory. While this is often called
| "grey channel" or "parallel imports", this is perfectly
| legal if the importer pays customs duty etc and
| invariably seems to happen if there is significant price
| differentiation between territories.
|
| The way to combat grey channel is to price right across
| territories in a way that it's not worth anyone's while
| to do parallel imports.
| beervirus wrote:
| Not necessarily true. If there are patent and/or
| trademark licenses involved, the sole distributor may the
| the only one legally allowed to sell in the territory.
| [deleted]
| tw04 wrote:
| It also generally means you have no warranty from the
| manufacturer, as they generally write the agreement to be
| non-transferable.
|
| As a consumer you may have some rights even with gray
| market, but it's not like a US court is going to be able
| to force a UK company to honor a warranty they never
| offered in the first place because they never sold
| directly into this market.
| namdnay wrote:
| > it's not like a US court is going to be able to force a
| UK company to honor a warranty they never offered in the
| first place because they never sold directly into this
| market
|
| And if there is an official distributor, they suddenly
| need to start investigating where every customer got
| their widget from, because they can't afford to provide
| warranties on items they didn't get the original markup
| on
| yaur wrote:
| In this case though Thermoworks has their own branding on
| Thermapens sold through official channels. If someone
| were to copy that branding I believe it would be a
| legitimate counterfeiting situation.
| strenholme wrote:
| Going back to Amazon, this brings up another issue:
| Amazon's resellers sometimes claim (or try to imply) that
| gray market imports are domestic versions of the products
| being sold. I sometimes see gray market cameras being
| presented as domestic; I only know they're gray market
| because of the price, and because the seller is a known
| gray market reseller.
| ThrowawayR2 wrote:
| > " _They are a distributor of the ETI Thermapen and
| nothing more except 'good friends' with the owners of ETI
| and that they have contributed design ideas to some
| versions of the Thermapen._"
|
| The text of the blog post also says " _Today ThermoWorks
| also operates its own product design studio in Utah where
| innovative professional thermometers and timers are
| created for both companies._ " so Thermoworks is more
| than a distributor. jjeaff's representation of the blog
| post is clearly incorrect and should only increase
| suspicion of the original accusation of fraud.
| YeBanKo wrote:
| > The only reason they were going for $179 previously is
| because thermoworks was buying the thermometers from sellers
| and reporting them as counterfeit. Thus making it difficult for
| sellers to sell them which keeps supply low.
|
| Do you have anything, that supports this claim?
| cbsks wrote:
| Just because Thermoworks isn't the original manufacturer of
| Thermapens doesn't make their claims any less valid. They are
| presumably authorized to use the Thermapen trademark in the US,
| and are right to be angry at Amazon for allowing counterfeit
| products to be sold using that trademark.
| notatoad wrote:
| genuine products being sold by an unauthorized retailer is
| not the same thing as counterfeit
| elliekelly wrote:
| Amazon was serving ads for their trademark "at up to 50%
| off" when in reality only the knock-off brands were that
| cheap and the authentic versions sold by unauthorized
| resellers were going for 200% MSRP. That seems like an
| appropriate thing for them to be upset about from the
| trademark alone.
| jjeaff wrote:
| Sure, they can be upset at Amazon for misusing their
| brand name is product results, but that has been done for
| so long, i doubt there is any legal path to stop it from
| happening. Amazon is well within their right to show
| similar products when you search for a brand name.
|
| As for the high prices, tough luck. I'm America, when you
| buy something, you have the right to sell it at whatever
| price you want, for the most part.
| tomnipotent wrote:
| > when you buy something, you have the right to sell it
| at whatever price you want
|
| As a consumer to other consumers, yes, but not as a
| business. Otherwise we wouldn't have things like MAP
| (minimum advertised price), which is enforceable by
| manufacturers. First-sale doctrine only covers so much.
| jjeaff wrote:
| MAP is only enforceable if you have a contract or
| agreement with your supplier.
|
| Any business can buy any product off the shelf and resell
| it for whatever price they want.
| namdnay wrote:
| > You can buy them from European distributors in bulk for less
| than MSRP and sell them for the same price as thermoworks on
| amazon and still make a profit
|
| This sounds like the kind of business plan that breaks down
| once you consider returns and warranties. I see 3
| possibilities, either
|
| (1) you make it clear to your buyers that they are not buying
| from thermoworks US, and that they must notcontact them for
| support and that you will meet the guarantees that Thermoworks
| promise (two years according to their website?), and therefore
| you will have to ship items back and forth across the atlantic
| (or just send free replacements), eating into your profits.
|
| (2) you don't make this clear, in which case Thermoworks US
| will receive "fraudulent" warranty claims (ie legitimate
| issues, but from people who did not buy from thermoworks).
| Maybe as the sole distributor in the US, thermoworks weren't
| even checking where people bought their thermometers from
|
| (3) you don't give the same warranty as Thermoworks, in which
| case is this crystal clear to the consumer?
| djrogers wrote:
| That doesn't explain why you can't buy them on Amazon.co.I'm
|
| > The only reason they were going for $179 previously is
| because thermoworks was buying the thermometers from sellers
| and reporting them as counterfeit. Thus making it difficult for
| sellers to sell them which keeps supply low.
|
| That's a pretty severe accusation to throw around - have any
| proof to back it up?
| jjeaff wrote:
| It happened to me. The name of the purchaser came up in a
| Google search as an employee of Thermoworks.
| fireflash38 wrote:
| So let me get this straight, you were selling thermapens on
| amazon, and therefore have a dog in the fight?
| joshuaissac wrote:
| If you exclude everyone who has a dog in the fight, then
| who is left to give their evidence?
| smeyer wrote:
| You don't have to exclude everyone who has a dog in the
| fight, but it's a bit rich to open up their post with
| "what thermoworks doesn't tell you is..." but then leave
| out their own involvement in the market.
| ryanlol wrote:
| Only a bit rich if you believe that he is actually
| selling counterfeits.
| jjeaff wrote:
| There are a bunch for sale on amazon.co.uk
|
| https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/B01MQN9MLL/ref=psdcmw_31871.
| ..
| tomnipotent wrote:
| Only seller available is ETI. How is this evidence?
| jjeaff wrote:
| Amazon does allow companies to register their brand and
| prohibit others from selling it on amazon. Or maybe ETI
| is pulling the same stunt and claiming resellers are
| selling counterfeits when they are actually just
| reselling the same product.
| StreamBright wrote:
| This sounds great in theory and we know how it works in
| practice.
|
| Amazon head 2M counterfeit items to destroy in 2020 only.
| What do you think how many counterfeit items were sold on
| Amazon in the last 10 years?
|
| They joust found 10 billion items. Nothing to see here,
| the policy that you are referring to is working
| perfectly. These numbers are a tiny fraction. Right?
|
| https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2021/05/amazon-
| seized-an...
|
| https://www.wsj.com/articles/amazon-has-ceded-control-of-
| its...
|
| https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/amazon-
| blocked-10-bil...
| canadianfella wrote:
| Your poor grammar makes your sarcasm hard to read.
| djrogers wrote:
| Weird, when I checked there were none - all listed and
| 'unavailable'
| tonyb wrote:
| I'm a professional cook (I do professional BBQ competitions
| and own a food truck) and I own at least 5 Thermapens and
| several other Thermoworks products.
|
| For me the Thermapen is worth every penny to me. It's fast,
| accurate, and reliable. I know that if I pick it up it is
| going to work and that alone is worth a premium. I've also
| had good experiences with their customer service - they will
| replace or repair them with little or no hassle.
|
| Yes they are expensive but my oldest Thermapen is at least 10
| years old. If you keep an eye out it's not hard to get them
| 25% off or more.
| opk wrote:
| Excuse my complete ignorance but how does measuring the
| temperature of food help you with cooking? When I do a BBQ,
| I've only ever judged by colour and appearance. Usually the
| challenge is not to burn the outside while the inside is
| undercooked.
| tonyb wrote:
| Everything I cook is temperature + feel. For example on
| pork once it hits 200-205 (depending on what temp I'm
| cooking at, the higher the cook temp the higher the
| finish temp) the thermapen becomes an expensive toothpick
| to feel for tenderness. Color is used as a element when I
| might move on to the next step but not at all for when it
| is done - for example I wrap pork once it hits 160 + has
| the color I want.
|
| It has to be a repeatable processes, especially if you
| are doing it commercially and you need to train other
| people. Temperature is a measurable thing vs look or feel
| which is subjective.
|
| For some things accuracy is extra important, one or two
| degrees won't make or break a pork but but can greatly
| impact something like steak.
| xeonoex wrote:
| Large chunks of meat are best done by temp. A brisket,
| for example, can look the same if the internal temp is at
| 150 vs 210. One is pretty much inedible. Same for large
| chunks of pork. You want to cook these to where they are
| tender, but not dry. For brisket, that is normally around
| 203-210 when measured at the largest part of the flat.
| You would just be completely guessing without a good
| thermometer.
| jrochkind1 wrote:
| I mean, if you know what you are doing because you have
| made for instance BBQ many times before, especially even
| on the same equipment, it's not exactly "completely
| guessing".
|
| People did make good BBQ for many years before digital
| thermometers existed, and without using meat
| thermometers! I suspect professional experts barbequing
| all day probably still don't use thermometers. They are
| have the same heat source many times, and know how it
| cooks and know how to judge the size of meat, because
| they've done it hundreds of times.
|
| But yeah, for those of us who are less expert, a meat
| thermometer can get us much better results.
| Arelius wrote:
| Sure, if you have the same heat source, in an environment
| with the same atmospheric conditions, working on a piece
| of meat similar to what you've cooked many times before,
| you likely don't much need a thermometer, not that it'll
| hurt.
|
| But a thermometer let's you transfer those skills much
| more easily to environments with varying conditions, It's
| especially common for professional cooks to be expected
| to cook in varying conditions.
| noodlenotes wrote:
| Not a professional, but I find meat thermometers even
| more useful because I don't know what I'm doing. I don't
| know what every type of meat looks and feels like when
| cooked, especially with different marinades and
| seasonings changing the appearance. I also hate
| overcooked meat. With a thermometer I can try a new
| technique and always pull the meat off at the right time.
| I'm also more comfortable letting the outside get crispy
| if I know I'm not overcooking the inside.
| Vrondi wrote:
| In every modern recipe for cooking almost any type of
| meat, there is an internal temperature listed at which
| the meat can officially be considered "safely" done.
| Restaurants, etc., have to follow such guidelines per
| government food safety standards.
| orhmeh09 wrote:
| I use a thermometer that looks like a thermapen knockoff
| and costs about $15. I've used it regularly (but not
| professionally) for four years and I've seen it give the
| exact same readings, swiftly, as one more expensive
| thermometer of the same kind, a cheaper one, and a body
| thermometer to measure fever. What makes the Thermapen
| worth every penny? I haven't had this break, but if it does
| I will probably order one of the same, which will arrive in
| a day or two without needing to (a) contact support or (b)
| send something in the mail. What am I missing? As a
| professional, what would you be missing if you used a
| cheaper model?
| JoblessWonder wrote:
| I think it is mostly an issue with quality control. I've
| had horrible luck with thermapen knockoffs. Temps all
| over the place, battery compartment loose, miscalibrated
| out of the box. If you found one that works, awesome! But
| I'd venture to guess that most people weren't that lucky.
| thefourthchime wrote:
| Wow! Hackernews always delivers the real goods!
| randompwd wrote:
| Not really. OP later confirmed:
|
| > jjeaff 2 hours ago [-]
|
| > It happened to me. The name of the purchaser came up in a
| Google search as an employee of Thermoworks. reply
|
| A disclaimer in his initial post would have been far more
| appropriate.
|
| Not so much savvy consumer as much as it he is disgruntled
| former competitor.
| namdnay wrote:
| not only that, but they seem to be ignoring any questions
| related to warranties..
| mixologic wrote:
| The search says it expired.. but nevertheless this is pretty
| bold.
| SpicyLemonZest wrote:
| USPTO search results aren't directly linkable, unfortunately.
| You can see it through the "Basic Word Mark Search" at https:
| //tmsearch.uspto.gov/bin/gate.exe?f=login&p_lang=engli...
| mherdeg wrote:
| Ok so the thing that Thermoworks markets as a "Thermapen Mk4"
| -- how much does that cost shipped to the US from a European
| vendor selling ETI products?
|
| I think I paid $60 for one on Thermoworks's web site during
| what they said was a sale, and I generally don't regret it vs.
| the crummy experiences I've had with cheaper food thermometers.
| gundmc wrote:
| I bought a thermoworks dot and it has been a revelation for
| grilling.
| vmladenov wrote:
| https://thermometer.co.uk/thermapen-
| thermometers/1145-therma...
|
| So that we compare like for like, I'm assuming you paid $60
| pretax. PS55 is $77.65 at present, which seems in line with
| paying $60 on sale.
| bushbaba wrote:
| I thought you were joking about the price. But nope it's
| actually a $100+ thermometer.
|
| Like I get paying that much for lab or industrial use if it's
| highly accurate/precise. But for cooking...nobody will taste
| the difference between 0.1 degrees. And I'm not even sure it's
| that accurate. It looks like a 10$ thermometer and I doubt it's
| much better than one for cooking.
| happytoexplain wrote:
| It's not about accuracy, it's about speed of reading, and
| simply not breaking. Yes, the price is ridiculous, but
| anecdotally, I've bought six other thermometers, including a
| couple expensive ones, and they were all awful on one or both
| counts. But maybe I'm just bad at research.
| kevinmchugh wrote:
| The new model thermapen has features I want but I won't
| upgrade as long as my existing one keeps working. It's been
| many years so far and there's no sign of it degrading at
| all.
| hnick wrote:
| Yep. I had an older thermometer (now tossed) that would
| tick up in 2-3 degree C increments. It'd take 30 seconds or
| so to reach the ballpark of cooked meat from room
| temperature. That's a lot of oven heat lost unless I close
| the door and leave it in. Which I did, so it melted, hence
| the "now tossed". I got a cheaper probe one which seems
| much better.
| zippergz wrote:
| First, there is a difference between precision and accuracy.
| I've had cheap thermometers that are 10-20 degrees off. That
| does make a difference. Second, for the thermapen it's really
| about very fast readings and durability more than accuracy or
| precision. It's very valid to feel that it's not worth the
| cost, but it is untrue that the difference isn't noticeable.
| LegitShady wrote:
| a thermometer thats 10-20 degrees off is likely just
| broken.
| sgerenser wrote:
| Not necessarily. I have used cheap food thermometers that
| took upwards of 60 seconds to settle on a temperature. If
| you weren't aware of this flaw you could easily read the
| temperature after 10-15 seconds when it seems to be
| settling down and end up way off from the real
| temperature.
| jakemoshenko wrote:
| I always have this conundrum when cooking a steak on a
| hot pan: Is the thermometer still settling down or is the
| internal temperature actually just rising quickly?
| ska wrote:
| more likely out of calibration
| [deleted]
| vector_spaces wrote:
| I've tried just about every sub-$50 thermometer money can
| buy, and I had a bad time with all of them. They're either
| laughably inaccurate (to the point of being effectively
| useless) or crap out suddenly or sustain minimal battery life
| or have some other fatal usability flaw. And I haven't found
| one that can tolerate any amount of moisture, so cleaning is
| always a risk.
|
| So I bought a thermapen. I knew about them because I used to
| work in kitchens, and it's pretty much exclusively what we
| used there. After my experience with other thermometers, I
| can appreciate why.
|
| It's expensive, but it's super reliable, pleasant to use, and
| lets me focus on other concerns as I'm cooking. Compared to
| my experience with other cheap thermometers which, last
| Thanksgiving, went something like "fuck, it died on me again,
| let me dig out my backup... fucking hell, that one's dead
| too"
| mike_d wrote:
| If you used to work in kitchens then you know that you
| should only buy digital thermometers that support
| calibration. Follow the manufacturers instructions on
| proper cleaning and don't submerge them.
|
| I have at least 3 floating around that ran me $12ish
| dollars each on Amazon and use them daily.
| wiredfool wrote:
| It's super reliable until you get water in the hinge. I
| lost mine that way.
|
| I'll probably get another one when the cheap ones that I'm
| using annoy me one too many times.
| Chris2048 wrote:
| could you fill it w silicone?
| userbinator wrote:
| Digital thermometers are mostly a perfected technology by
| now. There's less than $10 worth of parts in these regardless
| of how much they are selling them for. You can buy a $5
| multimeter with a type K thermocouple probe and it will have
| the same accuracy as any other, since it's intrinsic to the
| material itself. Hence the propaganda campaigns by companies
| who stand the most to lose from it.
|
| ...and downvoted for speaking the truth. Yes, it's all
| marketing BS, a tiny "bead" type thermocouple probe has next
| to no thermal mass and reads as instantly as you'll ever need
| for cooking purposes. Go buy a cheap one yourself if you
| don't believe me.
| bushbaba wrote:
| Agreed. Hence the shock on people paying the markup. It's
| not like this comes with some costly certification. There's
| likely 1000s of products that offer the exact same
| capabilities at a 1/10 the price.
| kevinmchugh wrote:
| If you can find the cheapest ones that are just as
| durable, accurate, and fast you can replace the market
| leader amongst pros and serious hobbyists. That's worth a
| lot of money.
|
| Get the right influencer/review site on your side and
| it's all downhill from there.
|
| ETA: the thermapen isn't the Wirecutter recommendation.
| They recommend the entry level, $35 thermoworks option.
| So that's the price point to compete with and the $100
| thermapen is the quality mark to hit.
| jjeaff wrote:
| The thermoworks dot option is also manufactured and sold
| by ETI in the UK. Thermoworks just slapped a different
| name in it.
| lifeformed wrote:
| It sounds like you're just making a seemingly reasonable
| assumption about something you don't know a lot about.
| There actually are not a lot of different kinds of good
| quality fast-reading thermometers out there.
| happytoexplain wrote:
| Did you not read the other replies? Many people's
| experience is that the difference is in the speed of
| reading, not the accuracy. This is borne out by buying many
| cheaper thermometers.
|
| Regardless, I don't think the self-righteousness is called
| for. "Downvoted for speaking the truth"? We're talking
| about thermometers.
| Chris2048 wrote:
| Is "speed of reading" a function of the probe, or the
| silicon?
| userbinator wrote:
| No doubt there are cheap ones that are utter crap; what
| I'm saying is that a fast settling and accurate
| thermometer is not some ultra-difficult thing that only a
| single company can make for a ridiculous price.
| ghshephard wrote:
| Can you recommend a competing thermometer of similar
| quality, speed, and accuracy?
| halfnormalform wrote:
| Yet no one else makes them.
| TwoBit wrote:
| I don't understand the downvotes. I have an $18 Amazon food
| thermometer which has read with identical speed and accuracy
| as my Thermapen for years. And I like it better because the
| Thermapen is a pain to switch between F and C whereas it's
| simply a face button on the cheap one.
|
| https://www.amazon.com/Saferell-Thermometer-Backlight-
| Calibr...
| henrikschroder wrote:
| > is a pain to switch between F and C
|
| Why would you ever switch it to F?
|
| Feigned confusion aside, I love the absolute simplicity of
| the Thermapen. It does _one thing_ , and does it good.
| Absolutely zero distractions, compared to the one you
| linked. You open it up, it switches on. You stick it into
| things, it tells you the temperature at the tip. What's not
| to love?
| tsimionescu wrote:
| > What's not to love?
|
| The extra 80-90$, presumably...
| Broken_Hippo wrote:
| Because not all things are written with Celcius
| temperatures. It is easier to push a button than to look
| up the conversion.
| shaklee3 wrote:
| Probably because you never need to switch between F and C
| simondotau wrote:
| Switching between F and C _should_ be difficult. This is
| something you set once and pretty much never change. If
| it's easily changed, it's easily changed by accident.
|
| If I'm ever cooking a recipe that is written in imperial
| units, I will convert them all to metric prior to starting.
| (This includes turning nearly all measures into grams--
| including and especially cups and spoons.)
| Broken_Hippo wrote:
| Why should it be difficult? You might not change it, but
| other folks do.
|
| My scale is easily changed. I pick it up, turn it over,
| and push a button. However, it is pretty difficult to
| change it by accident, and honestly, I just check the
| display before I weigh just to make sure.
|
| And honestly, do you think that folks are sitting down
| with pen and paper if they need to convert? Nope. Google
| will do this work for you.
|
| I'll also mention that it isn't worth it to weigh
| everything in the home kitchen. Small amounts - the ones
| you are using spoons for - are too light for the average
| kitchen scale, and the sensitive scales are expensive
| (and also have associations with dealing drugs, which
| turns some people off).
| ruined wrote:
| It's a tool designed for professionals. Professionals
| operate with standards, so in a professional kitchen in
| America, you will never, ever need or want to read a
| temperature in Celsius. In the rest of the world, nobody
| will ever use Fahrenheit.
|
| Having a button that changes it with a single press is
| actually an impediment to working quickly, and only
| introduces uncertainty and anxiety about the tool.
| Measuring temperature isn't like measuring weight -
| seconds matter. A moment of confusion could be enough to
| ruin a process, and a failure to notice the change in
| settings could create a dangerous situation. Nobody wants
| a button to see the wrong number.
|
| Think of it like compile-time config. It's there, you can
| change it if you want, and everyone will have a
| preference, but if you need to change it often, you're
| not the target market.
|
| In the rare consumer case in which you may be using
| foreign measurements you can change it once at the
| beginning of the recipe.
| 8note wrote:
| I think if you could need to change it occasionally, you
| could easily be in situations where you change it
| frequently.
|
| Shadow kitchens that make recipes for multiple different
| restaurants could have measurements in both.
|
| To not have the button at all would make sense(compile
| time config), but if there are situations where you need
| to change it, those can come up as frequently as every
| time you use it
| ErikVandeWater wrote:
| It shouldn't be difficult, but it should be foolproof.
| Someone not paying attention could mistakenly get a
| Fahrenheit reading expecting Celsius, and serve
| undercooked food to others.
| simondotau wrote:
| I have very cheap 0.1g precision scales and reasonably
| cheap 0.01g precision scales.
|
| Tablespoons (for example) are often equating to 10-25g
| which even the cheapest, nastiest 1g precision kitchen
| scales can handle with greater precision and
| repeatability than using an actual tablespoon
|
| It's only when measuring half teaspoon stuff where I'll
| either just use a teaspoon or pull out precision scales--
| it all depends how important it is to be accurate with an
| ingredient.
| 8note wrote:
| Is density not a concern?
| simondotau wrote:
| Yes, which is precisely why I eschew cups and spoons for
| grams. There are standard conversions for most common
| ingredients, I'll tend to use those for ingredients with
| the potential for high variation in density, like plain
| flour.
| canadianfella wrote:
| You have at at least 4 scales? Why?
| somebodythere wrote:
| I have a 0.1g precision scale from AWS which ran me about
| $25 dollars, and it has been indispensable both for the
| small ingredients and also for weighing stuff like frozen
| berries, where the gaps can make it hard to determine how
| much you actually have.
| quickthrower2 wrote:
| AWS or Amazon?
| jrockway wrote:
| "American Weigh Scales" is the manufacturer. It has
| nothing to do with Amazon Web Services.
| Wistar wrote:
| I hope you are kidding. I have had Flukes that sell for twice
| the price and aren't as practically good and useful for
| cooking as is the Mk4 Thermapen. It is unmatched.
| mixologic wrote:
| There is a nonzero percentage of people reading this that
| know that Fluke is a brand of scientific/industrial test
| and measuremnet gear. https://www.fluke.com/
| honkycat wrote:
| You speak as if $100 is a lot of money when it's not.
|
| Well it's true that you may be able to get something of equal
| quality for less, paying $100 for a high quality thermometer
| then I can always return and have replaced for years on end
| isn't that bad of a deal.
|
| I have alwaysp been bothered by this. There's the strange
| masculine trait of pointing out how cheap you got something
| or how much something costs as if it Is a significant amount
| of money when it's not.
|
| We get it! You're cheap and you would rather buy a mountain
| of disposable crap than spend money on something handmade to
| last! You're so cool and thrifty!
| jturpin wrote:
| > There's the strange masculine trait of pointing out how
| cheap you got something or how much something costs as if
| it Is a significant amount of money when it's not.
|
| On the other hand, there's a group of people who have
| fallen for the classic car salesman logic of "I'm actually
| SAVING money by spending more!" As if there's this epidemic
| of devices constantly failing, and they're the smartest
| people in the world for having come up with this novel idea
| about "spending more on quality." But being able to signal
| on social media about the nice things you have is an added
| bonus, so maybe there's something to it.
| happytoexplain wrote:
| >fallen for the classic car salesman logic of "I'm
| actually SAVING money by spending more!"
|
| The vast majority of people admit they are spending more
| to _get_ more - not to save money.
|
| >As if there's this epidemic of devices constantly
| failing
|
| As far as I've experienced: There is. Maybe not
| "epidemic", and maybe not "constantly", but you appear to
| be using exaggeration for effect.
|
| >they're the smartest people in the world for having come
| up with this novel idea about "spending more on quality."
|
| What's with the hostility toward these people you're
| envisioning? I've never seen this group of people who
| think spending more to get a higher quality product is
| genius and novel.
| honkycat wrote:
| So all things are of the same quality and the only reason
| someone would purchase a more expensive item is to signal
| their wealth on social media?
| happytoexplain wrote:
| Wow, this is out of touch. Even without the weird
| implication that everybody makes 150k, the implication that
| "if you can afford it, it's not overpriced" is ridiculous.
| honkycat wrote:
| I was saying the lifetime warranty and time saved paying
| $40 more for a product that I don't have to research as
| heavily is worth i.
|
| Honestly, I was using speech to text while having a drink
| so my comment came off as kinda stupid.
| FpUser wrote:
| >"as if it matters when I'm making 150k+/yr"
|
| Who gives a fuck how much you make. There are many people
| making way less and not because they are in any way
| inferior.
|
| >"You're so cool and thrifty!"
|
| I do not even want to say in public what I think about
| this.
| [deleted]
| [deleted]
| rtikulit wrote:
| I bought my wife a Thermapen for Christmas and it's
| revolutionized her cooking (and mine). She's using it for
| everything except toast and boiling water. Chicken, steaks,
| roasts, fish, fudge, cakes, casseroles, anything where
| complete cooking can be determined by internal temperature.
| The margin between perfect and overcooked fish can be slim,
| and she likes steak as rare as possible. This thing lets her
| nail it every time with no fiddling around.
|
| Yes, we have cheaper thermometers. The difference is night
| and day. More than anything, it's the speed with which it
| settles, but the unit is also calibrated, which gives us
| confidence. (I spent some time looking for a cheap
| alternative, but didn't find anything with consistently great
| reviews. I decided it was worth the extra money to buy less
| hassle, and I went with Thermoworks. No regrets!)
| fredophile wrote:
| If she likes her steaks as rare as possible you should look
| into buying here a sous vide setup. You can get the whole
| steak to whatever doneness you want and then just quickly
| sear the outside. It gives me consistently good results.
| katbyte wrote:
| I've been finding that reverse searing does a pretty good
| job without the sound vide
| dagw wrote:
| Even as someone who has a sous vide set up, and uses it a
| lot, I prefer the results of reverse searing for decent
| quality steaks.
| Xcelerate wrote:
| I have a sous vide set up as well, and while I find that
| it works great for chicken and duck, I agree with you
| that sous vide does something weird to steak. It's
| something about the texture. I know Kenji has written a
| few articles about how meat changes over different sous
| vide cooking durations, but I also wonder if the length
| of time changes the way fat renders somehow. I don't
| think it's been well studied. Searching the internet
| reveals I'm not the only person who has noticed this, but
| some people do not notice it, so there's not really a
| consensus on what's going on.
| MayeulC wrote:
| _sous vide_. Means "under vacuum".
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sous_vide
|
| Edit: I read a bit more on this, and was mistaken. Here
| is my original explanation: Basically a vacuum pump to
| lower boiling temperature; this puts a ceiling on
| achievable temperature for water-rich foods.
|
| Actually, nowadays it looks like it's just slow cooking
| vacuum-sealed food in a temperature-controlled water
| bath.
| carlob wrote:
| Wouldn't "as rare as possible" mean getting the steak to
| room temperature and then just searing? I always assumed
| the sous vide was more useful for those who liked their
| steaks more cooked.
| dagw wrote:
| Pretty much. A bleu steak is around 30 degrees internal
| temperature and really doesn't gain much from sous vide.
| Sous vide really only comes it its own for internal
| temperatures above 41-42 deg c. The advantage (compared
| to just searing/grilling) is that you can hold the steak
| at that point for longer, giving the protein more time to
| denature.
| Xcelerate wrote:
| > likes steak as rare as possible
|
| For pan searing, a quick and accurate thermometer doesn't
| actually make this much easier. I also have a Thermapen,
| but pan searing to a certain level of doneness is still a
| bit of an art because the final interior temperature after
| resting can be quite a bit different than the pull
| temperature due to residual heat at the edges of the meat.
| Even trying to get a consistent interior temperature using
| the same pan temperature (using a Control Freak induction
| cooktop) is difficult because the shape, thickness, and
| moisture content of meat can vary significantly. There's a
| few new gadgets that attempt to resolve this (e.g., this
| predictive thermometer with 8 sensors
| https://combustion.inc), but honestly having a lot of
| cooking experience is probably the best way to get a feel
| for when to remove the meat from the pan under rapid
| cooking conditions.
|
| Of course, sous vide and reverse sear are completely
| different and while you can indeed get a precise
| temperature, those methods have their own trade-offs
| (namely, it's difficult to get as thick of a crust).
| rtikulit wrote:
| She has her methods. Mostly grilling. I don't interfere.
| :-)
|
| She loathes sous vide.
|
| The nice thing about the Thermapen is that it reads so
| fast that it's easy to explore the temperature gradients
| in the food. It's a learning process, right? In my own
| cooking, I'm correlating the measurements with technique
| and results, and when I finally cook something well I can
| reliably repeat it.
|
| (Full disclosure. I have the surface temperature version
| of the Thermapen and a 4-channel recording thermometer,
| and I've profiled the oven, the griddle, etc. :-) We now
| focus on improving other aspects of cooking, confident
| that temperature is handled.)
| pja wrote:
| It's not the accuracy (although that's obviously table
| stakes). It's the quality & reliability.
|
| There are a ton of cooking thermometers on Amazon. A majority
| of them are awful. Either they're woefully inaccurate, or
| they fail after only a few months of use. You only have to
| read the reviews (when they're not completely gamed by the
| sellers) to see this.
|
| So you can either a) buy cheap thermometers one after the
| other until you happen to hit on one that works or b) buy a
| quality product first time that professional chefs rave
| about.
|
| Sure, you might get lucky with option a), but after two or
| three duds, option b) starts to look increasingly sane.
|
| Thermopens just work. They do one thing & have been honed to
| do that one thing incredibly well. When you buy one, you know
| exactly what you're getting & you know that the company will
| stand behind their product. WHat you're buying is a
| combination of certainty & quality. Why shouldn't they charge
| a premium for that?
| grawprog wrote:
| In candy making, the difference of a few degrees is the
| difference between a sticky unpleasant hard candies, hard
| brittle ones and caramel.
|
| I've used shitty thermometers trying to make candy. It sucks.
| If you want it to come out consistent, you need a good
| thermometer. One that lasts longer than a few months is
| always nice too. I dunno if a $150+ one is reasonable. But a
| quality thermometer helps for sure.
| lazyasciiart wrote:
| What you spend on a thermometer, you save on cooking pans.
| tptacek wrote:
| You're not paying for the accuracy so much as the speed and
| reliability. The packaging matters a lot. A $10 knife and a
| $100 knife are fundamentally both just chunks of metal, but
| they definitely don't perform the same way. It's much, much
| better than a $10 thermometer.
|
| There's a $30 Thermapen (the Thermopop), for what it's worth;
| it reads in 3 seconds, versus low hundred milliseconds.
| wiredfool wrote:
| It's like the Sam Vines theory of Economic Injustice: https:/
| /wiki.lspace.org/mediawiki/Sam_Vimes_Theory_of_Econom...
|
| Pay for quality. It's cheaper in the long run.
| Chris2048 wrote:
| The market adjusts. People pay for "quality" in an
| environment of information asymmetry - cheap stuff will be
| polished and given a high price tag. Products can do a
| better imitation of quality than people can discern it.
|
| Even the value of "brand" is diminishing: decent corps are
| bought and gutted all the time.
| ulber wrote:
| It's really about the speed here. I have one that takes ~6
| seconds to stabilize, which is by no means bad but is still a
| noticeable pause.
|
| The Thermapen is rated at 3 seconds, which I imagine feels
| much better when you quickly want to get the temperature of a
| steak or something while preparing other components at the
| same time.
| secabeen wrote:
| The thermapen pro-grade unit also detects temperature much
| faster than most other units. Many cooks (myself included)
| use a food thermometer every day, and it's totally worth
| paying more for a durable, accurate, and fast unit. My
| current one is over 5 years old, and shows no sign of wearing
| out.
| crispyambulance wrote:
| Thermapen is an excellent thermometer. It's fast, nice ux,
| robust, and just works. The $10~ dollar thermometers I've
| used are too fragile, grossly inaccurate or annoying.
|
| I suppose there's room in the market for a cheaper
| thermometer with the same features/performance as thermapen
| but it's probably not worth it to the manufacturers and re-
| sellers that could actually pull it off. The markup for the
| thermapen is not particularly shocking or worrisome. More
| importantly, the consumer is not getting "ripped off" at that
| price if it's a solid product that lasts for years and years.
|
| I'm not sure what to think of their Amazon antics. They're
| aggressively keeping Amazon from selling thermapens so they
| can keep the price at a premium in the American market? It's
| not like I cam blame them. They just want to make a buck and
| not bend over for Amazon. Competitors, including Amazon
| Basics, are free to sell a product and eat Thermapen's lunch,
| but they don't. I expect because it's not worth it.
| sjm-lbm wrote:
| Assuming you're actually asking, the appeal of the Thermapen
| for chefs is how fast it is - $10 thermometers are as (or
| more) accurate, but they'll take several seconds to stabilize
| on showing a certain temperature. Thermapens are crazy fast.
| That's very useful when your hand is near/in a hot oven or
| hovering over a hot stove.
| Frost1x wrote:
| The $20 knock-off I picked up on Amazon for a Christmas rib
| roast reads quite accurately based on a calibrated
| scientific thermometer I compared it to and stabilizes to a
| reading in about 1-3 seconds. I didn't realize it was a
| Thermapen knock off, just searched for a meat thermometer
| for a Christmas rib roast I wanted to turn out perfect (and
| it did).
|
| The old digital thermometers did the awhile but I think
| some of the new ones are pretty fast (and accurate).
| lincolnq wrote:
| I'm a medium experienced home chef, and I have a Thermapen,
| and really like it. It's a better thermometer than the $10
| one, or even a $30 one. The accuracy doesn't matter very
| much, but the reading speed does matter, and Thermapen reads
| extremely quickly.
| colechristensen wrote:
| There are too many chefs that swear by them to so easily
| dismiss the value. The often quoted feature is more speed
| than precision. Like everything a big chunk is going to be
| marketing and paying for a little extra quality control on
| top of slightly higher tier components.
| InvertedRhodium wrote:
| Couldn't it also be a perfect example of the bandwagon
| fallacy?
| colechristensen wrote:
| No. I'm not making absolute statements but casting doubt
| on one persons claims that a product is probably bad they
| have no experience with vs. a large number of
| professionals who use it as a tool every day including
| several organizations conducting comparative equipment
| tests.
| mike_d wrote:
| Professionals are prone to confirmation bias.
|
| Stanley, Black and Decker, Dewalt, Irwin, and Porter
| Cable are all tool brands made by the same company in the
| exact same factories. People have ran extensive
| "scientific" tests on job sites and on YouTube on the
| battery life between them. Everyone has a favorite that
| lasts the longest or is best under load. Aside from the
| metal contacts and plastic housing to make the batteries
| unique to each brand - they all contain batteries from
| the exact same two suppliers.
| drewzero1 wrote:
| I have worked in a position where I repaired all of these
| brands, and can say that at least in the last two decades
| Stanley Black and Decker Inc. has been very strategic
| with product positioning and continued support for all of
| their brands. DeWalt is supposed to be their professional
| (or probably prosumer) line that's built to last, or at
| least to be repaired. Black & Decker, which had been a
| higher-end brand before the 90s, is now pretty much all
| "happy homeowner" tools built out of less durable plastic
| and often without replacement parts available. Porter-
| Cable seems to fall in the middle, a bit closer to B&D.
|
| There's a certain 20V compact leaf blower that I've seen
| branded as a DeWalt, Ryobi, and Milwaukee. I'm not sure
| about the motor or controller but the plastic casing is
| almost identical aside from the color and battery
| connector. It's also interesting to note that the B&D and
| the Porter-Cable 20V batteries are identical except for a
| plastic tab that prevents interoperability.
| BluePen7 wrote:
| Same four* suppliers actually, just about every
| rechargeable embedded battery is made by Panasonic,
| Sanyo, LG, or Samsung.
|
| Most common type/size is the 18650, used in everything
| from drills, powerbanks, to Teslas. Second most common
| type is the 21700.
|
| A "scientific" test isn't even necessary, just tear down
| the battery pack, see what cell they put in there, and
| read the spec sheet. The big 4 battery makers will sell
| you a whole range of batteries in that size with varying
| mAh/Amp.
|
| Googling teardowns, I found a Black & Decker 1.5A MAX
| Lithium simply uses a bunch of Sanyo UR18650W2 (1500mAh
| rated at 18A) cells, while a teardown of a Dewalt pack
| shows they used the more expensive LG HB4s (1500mAh rated
| at 30A).
|
| There literally no reason they can't use the better cells
| in the Black & Decker, other than they're building it to
| a cheaper price point. The fact that they're built in the
| same factory is besides the point.
| geoduck14 wrote:
| Serious question:
|
| Do professionals use those brands? I'm sure passionate
| amateurs will use those brands (I have a drill from that
| list) - but pros?
|
| I ask because I know a professional mechanic and I asked
| his favorite wrench brand, and he went off about various
| brands I didn't recognize.
|
| Also, regarding your list, have you accounted for
| variability in quality within a product run?
| kevinmchugh wrote:
| I suspect consistency of product is part of the reason
| thermapen have their reputation and other brands mostly
| don't. You can often get cheap products that are good,
| but there might be a lot more variability.
|
| Binning is a related topic.
| alliao wrote:
| If you are pedantic AND loves experimenting, ThermaPen will at
| the same time ruin your life and make you so much happier.
|
| The first week I got my thermapen I made and drank so much tea I
| was getting high from caffeine. Then came endless number of over
| baked chickens; still a folklore in my house the winter where
| chicken was plenty and oven always roaring.
|
| My kids use it to assess how cooked chicken nuggets are. I even
| wrapped it in foil once to check automatic transmission fluid
| temp in a pinch (don't tell my wife). It reads as fast as it
| claims. It works consistently and without fail.
| happytoexplain wrote:
| Thermapen is fantastic - it really reads in a second or two. For
| years I was resigned to the fact that "fast read" thermometers
| take nearly 10 seconds and fall apart, after buying a bunch from
| Amazon. I've had the same experience with other kinds of things.
| For many categories, Amazon simply does not sell high quality
| products - at all. You have to find the brands using your own
| research (good luck getting past the top-10-of-2021 hell hole),
| then buy directly from them.
|
| My impression is that it used to be that it was only this hard to
| discover sources for _obscenely_ high end products. Now it 's the
| case for anything that isn't ultra-cheap garbage.
| mleonhard wrote:
| > We DO have carefully selected, authorized resellers.
|
| USA is a free market. Everyone is authorized all the time to sell
| every safe product. The term "authorized reseller" is a
| linguistic manipulation which benefits manufacturers at the
| expense of everyone else in society.
|
| > We cannot vouch for the quality of products sold by
| unauthorized resellers, therefore, we cannot provide warranty or
| technical support on any products sold by unauthorized resellers.
|
| This is not true in California. Manufacturers must honor the
| warranty on all products they originally sold in USA, no matter
| who later re-sold it. And for products they sold for >$99, they
| must provide technical documentation for 7 years. I wrote about
| this in [0].
|
| [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24426635
| danspots wrote:
| Did anyone else just buy one?
| bluedino wrote:
| I gave my Thermapen to someone as a gift, ended up buying a $20
| one on Amazon and don't miss it one bit.
| [deleted]
| throwawaysea wrote:
| I've certainly been bitten by other types of counterfeit items on
| Amazon, and would definitely not purchase something like a
| Thermapen on there simply because I couldn't be sure I was
| getting a genuine product. For companies like this, I can also
| see how it would be a disadvantage to have large numbers of
| Chinese knockoffs featured next to their product for a lot less.
| Personally I've changed my shopping habits to never shop on
| Amazon unless I can't get that item any other way. Almost
| everyone has reasonable shipping times, and I don't need 1-day
| delivery or whatever new decadent level of convenience they're
| offering. Purchasing directly from a manufacturer or from other
| retailers gives me more confidence that I am buying a real
| product. Finally I also don't like the idea of giving Amazon as
| much power as it has - I'd rather avoid fueling their middleman
| role and reward innovative small companies directly.
| jeffbee wrote:
| Every time this article shows up here or on Twitter I email them
| to complain about my broken thermapen, which stopped working 11
| years ago after I owned it for only a year. Over the years
| they've changed the supposed contact address from service to
| support to techsupport but one thing remains the same: they never
| answer. From a company that makes such a big deal about how great
| their support is, all I have from them is a broken expensive
| thermometer and silence.
| bdwalter wrote:
| For what its worth, I've bought 5 of these. 2 for myself, and 3
| I've given as gifts. They're amazing and have completely changed
| the way I cook. Nothing compares.
| tempestn wrote:
| I blame Google here as well. Their practice of selling ads on
| searches for trademarked brand names of competitors, forcing
| brands to pay for their own ads to (only partially, as seen here)
| mitigate the negative effects is clearly predatory. I wouldn't
| even expect them to necessarily proactively screen for these
| cases, but it should at least be possible to demonstrate that
| you're using the trademark being advertised on (by demonstrating
| that you own the .com, or by submitting a trademark registration
| number), and henceforth prevent anyone else from advertising on
| that keyword. Of course, Google has a financial incentive not to
| do that.
| wmf wrote:
| It depends. It's legal and IMO ethical to use another company's
| trademark if you're an authorized distributor or a competitor
| using the trademark in a non-scammy way. For example, a "Better
| than Thermapen" ad would be a legit (if weak) form of
| competition.
| tempestn wrote:
| Using that sort of ad copy is fine IMO. What I take issue
| with is advertising using competitors' brands as keywords, so
| when someone searches for "Thermapen", your ad comes up above
| their organic result.
| sellyme wrote:
| Eh, in some markets trademark genericisation would mean
| that someone searching [BrandName] might genuinely be
| looking for any product that fills roughly the same
| function. If I google "Blu Tack" I don't care if I get the
| stuff made by Bostik, and I don't even know what the
| generic term for that product __is__.
|
| Maybe you could argue "well, that's the reward [Brand] gets
| from insanely successful organic marketing and/or being
| first to market", which I suppose has some merit, but I
| don't think it's inherently unethical to market at brands
| in that context.
| tempestn wrote:
| Yeah, that's fair. I guess like anything there are grey
| areas. It's definitely frustrating when you have a more
| niche brand like thermapen though, where that's
| definitely not the case, and you can see knockoffs
| bidding on your keywords and essentially taking advantage
| of people looking for your product/service.
| dannyw wrote:
| One may argue this as problematic, the other may argue this as
| increasing competition.
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