[HN Gopher] The Animal Is Tired
___________________________________________________________________
The Animal Is Tired
Author : montenegrohugo
Score : 1191 points
Date : 2021-05-09 22:11 UTC (1 days ago)
(HTM) web link (www.robinhobb.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.robinhobb.com)
| fallingfrog wrote:
| I felt just as good at 30 as I did at 20. I used to hike up and
| down mount Washington (6300 ft) in a day and feel fine the day
| after. I think I was 33 when I did 30 miles of hiking in the
| white mountains in one day.
|
| I felt like my body took a corner somewhere in my mid 30's
| though. (Right about when my kids were born). Now it feels
| amazing to sit down. My hair is finally falling out too. My feet
| hurt when I put weight on them in the morning. I put on 20 pounds
| that I just can't seem to get rid of.
| autarch wrote:
| Robin Hobb is one of my favorite authors. Her masterwork is a
| series of series (four trilogies and a quadrology) known as The
| Realm of the Elderlings.
|
| She published the first trilogy, which begins with Assassin's
| Apprentice, starting in 1995. I saw the books when they first
| came out and I assumed from the title and the cover that it would
| be a cheesy fantasy by the numbers, so I never bought it. But I
| kept hearing about these books from other people who liked SFF,
| so I finally picked up the first trilogy.
|
| I was completely wrong. It's not at all by the numbers. While
| it's not trope-free (nothing is), there are all sorts of
| interesting ideas, from the political to ecological. As you read
| the later series, the world opens up quite a bit, and it gets
| even more interesting. The final trilogy brings so many elements
| together, and the ending is shatteringly powerful.
|
| While this is epic fantasy, it's _not_ at all grimdark. Bad
| things definitely happen, but it's more hopeful and humane than
| something like Malazan or Song of Ice and Fire.
|
| I can't recommend these books highly enough. Even if her writing
| is slowing down, I hope that she's satisfied with what she's
| done. This series alone is an enormous accomplishment. To build a
| world across so many books, across so many years, and have it
| come together so well in the end is massively impressive.
| codeduck wrote:
| I picked up the first book of the assassins trilogy on a whim,
| and ended up discovering, like you, one of my all time
| favourite fantasy authors.
| marklubi wrote:
| I recently tried to introduce my son to them, but he just
| couldn't get into the series as it wasn't fast paced enough for
| him in the beginning.
|
| Out of curiosity, and because of my praise for the series, my
| dad decided to give it a try...
|
| I've never in my life seen him read anything for pleasure.
|
| He's now >5000 pages in, just finished Fool's Fate, and is
| about to start The Rain Wild Chronicles (10th book in the
| series).
| iamacyborg wrote:
| > more hopeful and humane than something like Malazan
|
| Am I missing something here? It's been a while since I read the
| Malazan series but hope seems to be one of the primary themes
| of the series, even if things are utterly bleak at times.
| Benjamin_Dobell wrote:
| 100% agreed. Robin Hobb (Margaret Astrid Lindholm Ogden) was
| without a doubt my favourite author as a teenager.
|
| Sadly, in the last 10 years, I've barely read anything.
| However, when The Fitz and the Fool Trilogy came out, you can
| bet I made time to read it!
| gwd wrote:
| > Sadly, in the last 10 years, I've barely read anything.
|
| Try audiobooks. It's difficult for me at the moment to set
| aside time to curl up with a sheaf of paper bound together;
| but I continue to get my dose of long-form words when working
| out, washing dishes, mowing the lawn (and, before the
| pandemic, cycling to the office).
| gpderetta wrote:
| I look forward to my 45mins commute on the tube as it is
| the only time I have for reading. In fact I haven't ready
| pretty much anything at all on this year long lockdown and
| just restarted now as I went back to the office.
| climb_stealth wrote:
| Aw man, I just started a comment saying how this sounds really
| promising and was going to ask about it. Turns out I have
| actually read them. I might have to read them all again. I
| would recommend them as well.
|
| I'm a big fan of the Malazan series as well. I still think of
| the hair jacket when I come across someone with a smelly jacket
| and it never fails to crack me up.
|
| My recommendation for epic fantasy that is a bit different and
| unexpected: The Dark Tower series by Stephen King. Some very
| powerful stories in there. The first book is pretty short so it
| is a good way to try it out. Though I think it hooks from the
| very start.
| fredophile wrote:
| For people who like the character driven nature of Robin
| Hobb's work I'd recommend the Demon Cycle books by Peter
| Brett. Across the series you get to see characters from a
| variety of viewpoints which really fleshes them out as
| complete people.
| spery wrote:
| I have such mixed feelings about the Demon cycle. I really
| like the characters and the first book is excellent.
| However it starts to be the same pattern for the later
| books and plot deteriorates rapidly as you near the end.
| Last two books ruined the series for me, I remember reading
| them during first lockdown last year and being super
| frustrated the way it ended.
| SamoyedFurFluff wrote:
| If we're recommending series in general, I recommend the
| Broken Earth Trilogy be NK Jemisin and The Poppy War series
| by RF Kuang. These series have a completely different
| approach to fantasy as a lens of society that I really adore.
|
| I'm also a big fan of the Daevabod Series by SA Chakraborty.
| That is also hella.
| spamalot159 wrote:
| Brandon Sanderson is my go to recommendation for fantasy
| nowadays. Mistborn is a great place to start but The Way of
| Kings is the real meat and potatoes. He also links all these
| books together in the same universe and it's fun to notice
| the connections.
| SunlightEdge wrote:
| At the risk of being downvoted I don't find Brandon
| Sanderson a very good fantasy writer. For me, The way of
| kings started well (even if the characters were all pretty
| 2-D) in book one. Interesting plot with it mixing ww1/dune
| computer game themes in a fantasy setting. But by book 3 it
| was an incredible chore to get through and I stopped after
| about 10% in. I even got bored reading the plot summary of
| the third book. I guess it wasnt dark enough for me. But I
| know other like it.
|
| The king killer chronicles however. e.g. The name of the
| wind. I really like this book series.
| oldprogrammer2 wrote:
| I like Sanderson, I really do, but I wish he would aim
| for a bit more brevity. He has a really interesting story
| to tell, and built an incredibly creative world, but it's
| like he gets distracted by all the other stories he would
| like to tell. Just like Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time,
| Way of Kings seems to get slower with each book as more
| subplots are developed and explored.
|
| But I think my biggest complaint about Way of Kings is
| that the characters often make such frustrating
| decisions. The fate of the world is at stake and people
| are petty, self-absorbed, secretive, and sullen. Maybe
| that's reality, but it's so frustrating to read sub-plots
| that drag out for hundreds of pages simply because people
| won't communicate.
|
| I miss, to some degree, books like King's Gunslinger and
| Moorcock's Elric, that could tell a story in ~200 pages.
| Or even the TSR pulp fantasy books of the 80's which all
| seemed to be 300-400 pages. Now everything is super-
| sized, but I don't feel like I'm getting more "story",
| I'm getting in-depth descriptions of clothing and
| internal monologues on what to cook for dinner.
|
| Despite that critique, I still recommend Way of Kings
| (and Wheel of Time!). Just flip through the filler.
| Elora wrote:
| > my biggest complaint about Way of Kings is that the
| characters often make such frustrating decisions
|
| I find the decisions are often not predictable, which I
| think for some can be a turnoff because things don't go
| the way you expect/want them to. I find this a strength.
| SunlightEdge wrote:
| Moorcook's Eldrich... Wait! I read Hawkmoon years ago by
| him and liked it. A light breezy read. I'll get this.
| Cheers
| CRConrad wrote:
| > Just like Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time, Way of Kings
| seems to get slower with each book as more subplots are
| developed and explored.
|
| Heh, now that's ironic, knowing what happened to the WoT:
| Jordan[1] died before he could finish it, and years later
| another author stepped in and finished it based on
| Jordan's notes. That other author was... Brandon
| Sanderson. So one would think he'd know the dangers of
| creating too big a sprawl.
|
| (Also: Take heed, GRRM!)
|
| ___
|
| [1]: Actually Oliver Rigney, IIRC.
| LargeWu wrote:
| I don't know if it's that Sanderson is a bad writer; I
| think it's more that he's a bad editor. He is so prolific
| that he doesn't take the time to cut his books down to
| the length they should be, which is probably about half
| the length.
|
| Every single novel I've read by him (All of mistborn, 1st
| 3 Way of Kings, Elantris) has egregious pacing problems.
| Way too much repetitive exposition that doesn't move the
| story along.
|
| Arcanum Unbounded is actually pretty good, probably
| because it's all short stories and doesn't have time to
| get lost)
| MattRix wrote:
| Skyward is a great light read by him, but note that it's
| sci-fi, not fantasy.
| InitialLastName wrote:
| Sanderson got too big too fast to develop a relationship
| with an editor who could say "no" to him. He's built
| fascinating worlds and interesting characters, but his
| later writing is full of the kinds of tropes and flaws
| that an empowered editor would be pushing him hard to
| streamline:
|
| - Dialogue from adults that has the emotional
| intelligence of a 12-year old
|
| - Lots of telling, almost no showing. So much "X, the
| kind of person who takes no bullshit from anyone, says,
| 'hi'".
|
| - Huge, dragging, Return-of-the-Jedi-style setpiece
| battles and fights that have no bearing on the plot
| outcome
|
| - Plots that just repeat on a larger scale with every
| book in a series.
|
| Dude needs someone who has the ability to say no to him.
| With the amount he writes though, I have to imagine it's
| basically a DDOS for anyone tasked with editing his work.
| astrange wrote:
| Well, he did a decent job ending Wheel of Time which had
| that problem but much worse, since it was edited by the
| guy's wife. Unlike RJ, Sanderson actually knows where
| he's going and tries to get there on schedule.
|
| It was only decent though. I thought he made some very
| artificial uses of the magic system that didn't seem to
| fit in the world but just let him keep the series on
| track. Also, RJ wasn't the best at writing women but
| Sanderson is a total square and so the romantic/personal
| relationships were not really there.
|
| Interestingly, the part of his books I liked the most was
| entirely original (Aviendha's future vision), and the one
| I thought was the worst written (Tower of Ghenjei) was an
| attempt to keep an RJ alpha plot that RJ probably
| would've abandoned.
| InitialLastName wrote:
| At least Robert Jordan could write dialogue and inter-
| personal relationships that don't stink of middle school.
| astrange wrote:
| RJ thought of himself as a "Southern gentleman" and so he
| had critical levels of boomer gender politics in all his
| dialogue, essentially 1000 pages of "I hate my wife"
| jokes and braid tugging. Also, not sure how many people
| noticed but more than a few plot points and things like
| Compulsion weaves in his books are clearly just his
| sexual fetishes.
|
| But yes, there was a lot of depth and the women were
| always strong characters and seemed to be having fun,
| whereas Sanderson writes like he hasn't gone through
| puberty yet.
| InitialLastName wrote:
| I should note I'm not defending Robert Jordan's pseudo-
| neckbeard views on women, just his ability to write
| humans.
| selykg wrote:
| Too bad you will never see the end of The King Killer
| Chronicles. It has been something like 10 years since the
| last book. Rothfuss is in the exact same situation as
| Martin for me. I won't buy any books of his until the
| series is complete.
|
| You may not like Sanderson's writing, but the man
| publishes books. He will get my money for anything he
| writes because I know I'm going to enjoy it (personally,
| I really enjoy his books) and I know he's going to
| complete what he starts.
| ajarmst wrote:
| I've just been assuming that Sanderson will step up to
| finish those series when the original authors pass.
| zargon wrote:
| It's a good joke. Unfortunately Sanderson's writing style
| is _really_ incompatible with Rothfuss and Martin 's.
| Also, he has his own epic series that will occupy him for
| another 20 years.
| SunlightEdge wrote:
| Unfortunately, I agree with you. The stone door I've
| almost given up on. And I was reading GOT way before it
| became famous on TV. Again stopped expecting a new book.
| He's passed away now. But I did quite like the British
| fantasy writer David Gemell. He knocked out books too.
| His books are violent and personally I like dark and
| gritty.
| vaughandroid wrote:
| "Personally I like dark and gritty." On the offchance you
| haven't given Joe Abercrombie a try, you really ought to.
| selykg wrote:
| Check out Mark Lawrence if you like dark and gritty. He's
| pretty good at knocking out books as well.
|
| Also, you've probably heard of it already but The First
| Law series by Joe Abercrombie
| dgfitz wrote:
| I absolutely inhaled the first two books by Rothfuss,
| couldn't put 'em down, this was last year. Then I read up
| on when the last book would come out, and saw it had been
| over 10 years between the 2nd book coming out and present
| day.
|
| Then I started reading about Patrick Rothfuss. I don't
| think I'll ever read the 3rd book if he ever does
| actually write it. Yes write, all indications are he
| hasn't written a page. I have lost whatever respect I
| have had for the guy. If he has a legitimate reason as to
| why he has kept his "fans" waiting for over a decade, he
| should say it. This reasoning is bullshit. [1] I would
| 100% understand if he said something like "I'm under a
| lot of pressure and I have anxiety and writers block" or
| something to that effect. Nope, he just completely
| checked out.
|
| Maybe I'll read the Wikipedia summary if it ever exists.
|
| [1] https://winteriscoming.net/2020/12/04/patrick-
| rothfuss-expla...
| hoseja wrote:
| The books are _absolutely jam-packed_ with detail,
| foreshadowing, reference and masterful writing (have you
| noticed Felurian speaks in Iambic pentameter?). I think
| he has just written himself into a combinatorial
| explosion of a corner.
| mattjaynes wrote:
| Totally agree. I love his lectures on writing which you
| can find on YouTube. He's a great teacher with excellent
| content. But great teachers aren't always the best
| writers.
|
| I decided to try the Mistborn trilogy. The first book was
| great - a nice tight and satisfying story. But the second
| and third books got progressively messier and I found
| myself totally disconnected and eventually just slogging
| through to the end. I wish I would have stopped after the
| first book.
|
| Sanderson admits loving to write write write and hating
| to rewrite and edit, which I think really showed in the
| latter books of the trilogy.
| kyralis wrote:
| I had the same reaction to the Mistborn books, and my
| interpretation is that Sanderson really struggles when
| the plot and characters get "wide". The first book was
| tight and focused; when the characters graduated to a
| larger stage everything - from the characters to the
| world to the plot - ended up "flat" and unrealistic. It's
| like he has a set budget for any given work, and the
| wider the focus the less of that budget any individual
| piece gets.
|
| Which is a shame, because some of his work really is
| excellent.
| ssully wrote:
| I was gifted a copy of Mistborn by Sanderson and I've
| been having trouble reading. The first handful of
| chapters dragged for me, so I put it down in favor or
| something else. I think you point about flat characters
| is what did it for me; I believe good characters can
| carry a mediocre story, but a story has to be really
| exceptional to carry a narrative with uninteresting
| characters.
|
| I am hoping to give it another shot this summer, but I
| can't exactly say I am looking forward to it.
| climb_stealth wrote:
| I haven't heard of these, thanks for the recommendation!
| According to Wikipedia he hasn't finished writing them yet.
| Is it worth reading them already or does it feel
| unfinished?
|
| It's not clear from a quick glance, Mistborn and The Way of
| Kings take place in the same universe?
| humps wrote:
| His first book Elantris is also very good and well worth
| your time. A good starting point for his work and a self-
| contained novel (although he had mentioned writing two
| more Elantris books in the distant future).
| climb_stealth wrote:
| I see, noted as well. Thanks!
| harveynick wrote:
| The Emperor's Soul is set on the same world as Elantris,
| though is more or less completely unconnected to it.
| Arete314159 wrote:
| FYI - Robin Hobb is a lady.
| fredophile wrote:
| Since GP is talking about Elantris it's safe to say the
| "he" in this case is Brandon Sanderson and not Robin
| Hobb.
| humps wrote:
| quite correct, I was referring to Brandon, not Robin
| Arete314159 wrote:
| Ah sorry, my bad.
| spamalot159 wrote:
| I'd say it's worth it to start now. Sanderson is writing
| at a blistering pace right now and doesn't seem to be
| slowing down.
|
| Mistborn and Way of Kings are in the same universe but
| separate worlds. I don't want to spoil too much but there
| is some crossover involved.
| climb_stealth wrote:
| Makes sense, thanks! I appreciate the non-spoiler. These
| days I don't even read the description on the back of
| books anymore to try and experience it openly. It just
| makes it a bit hard to work out where to start sometimes.
| bhntr3 wrote:
| >Is it worth reading them already or does it feel
| unfinished?
|
| Mistborn is a complete trilogy although he continues to
| publish other novels set in the same world.
|
| Way of Kings is ongoing. It's on book four now. Each book
| is over a thousand pages so there's a lot there. I don't
| think it's a problem to start. Books 1-3 are great and
| stand alone pretty well. It's started to drag with book 4
| in my opinion. Like so many other huge epic fantasies, it
| has too many characters, too many plotlines, too huge of
| a world, and it's difficult to maintain the epic feel
| with all that sprawl. I'm worried for book 5.
|
| > Mistborn and The Way of Kings take place in the same
| universe?
|
| They take place in the same universe (literally) but they
| are on different worlds. So they don't have anything
| (much?) to do with each other (yet?)
| climb_stealth wrote:
| Thanks for the details! Mistborn is going on my list to
| read next.
| harveynick wrote:
| There's another Sanderson Cosmere book called Warbreaker
| which crosses over with Stormlight pretty heavily from
| book 2 onwards (it's also very possibly there are
| references in book 1 which totally passed me by). You'll
| definitely have a better handle on why a particular
| object which shows up in the Stormlight books is so scary
| if you read Warbreaker first.
|
| Book 4 of Stormlight does have some pretty big references
| to the original Mistborn trilogy, too.
|
| On the whole I try to read books in the order I bought
| them (ish), but Sanderson is one of the authors I'll just
| drop everything for when a new book comes out.
| Disclaimer: he does have some bad habits (mainly
| inserting "wise ass" characters who don't fit the tone or
| setting, and who I strongly suspect carry the author's
| voice a little _too_ directly). But he does epic world
| building incredibly well, and very different to just
| about any other author I've read. He also writes action
| exceptionally well.
| zargon wrote:
| Same universe -- the Cosmere. But we really are talking
| about "universe" here. Different planets (galaxies?) that
| know nothing about each other, just happen to share some
| laws of nature (and some mysterious characters that seem
| to travel around). I don't even pick up on most of the
| connections without having them pointed out to me.
|
| Stormlight Archive is 10 books in two 5 book arcs. 4th
| book is out now, 5th book will be out in 3 years. So
| probably a decent time to get into Stormlight. (Sanderson
| makes a schedule for each of his projects and has an
| incredible talent for hitting his targets.)
| GordonS wrote:
| I'm reading Rhythm of War (Stormlight Archive Book 4) just
| now, and am really enjoying the Stormlight series - the
| "split personality" of Shallan is really interesting, and
| I'm enjoying Shadesmar much more than I did in Oathbringer.
| 8fGTBjZxBcHq wrote:
| A friend of mine once joked about hacker news that "if you
| mention any author, within three comments someone will
| recommend a Sanderson book."
|
| I appreciated the joke without taking it too literally. But
| here we are.
| astrange wrote:
| That happens on /r/books too. They're also obsessed with
| Stephen King, so I've just assumed Sanderson is also an
| airport novel writer.
| burnished wrote:
| I don't know what 'airport novel writer' means, but
| Sanderson comes up with some really inventive worlds and
| the magic in his fantasy setting has a high degree of
| internal consistency that really resonates with some
| people. His writing is also approachable in the sense
| that it isn't full of references to other books that are
| required reading in order to understand a passage. If
| you've got a working knowledge of the english language
| and maybe a dictionary you can approach the story on its
| own merits.
| Andrew_nenakhov wrote:
| In The Dark Tower, only first two books are good. Third is
| decent, the rest I've read only because I'm a very stubborn
| person.
| silexia wrote:
| Very true! King disliked this series and only finished it
| because of fan insistence... And the ending is a middle
| finger to those fans!
| trey-jones wrote:
| Personal opinion I guess. I really liked the whole
| series, including the ending.
| elyobo wrote:
| I need to revisit The Dark Tower, I last read it when it was
| incomplete and have never read it through. Very different to
| his more famous works. Thanks for the reminder.
| climb_stealth wrote:
| Depending on where you stopped, I feel like it is gets a
| little bit odd in the middle but it is very much worth
| reading to the end.
|
| There's also The Wind Through the Keyhole which slots
| inbetween the main books. Learning about this one is that
| made me read the whole series again only a few weeks ago.
| It's still as good as it ever was!
| Andrew_nenakhov wrote:
| Not worth reading to the end at all. King didn't even
| think of a proper ending, prefacing it with a suggestion
| to stop reading before it. The series got weaker and
| weaker after second book.
| aethertron wrote:
| The series did deteriorate, but I liked book 4. It's a
| romance. I recommend it to all young fools, or those who
| can fondly remember being such.
| climb_stealth wrote:
| Agreed. I feel like the whole series very much appeals to
| young teenage me.
| Andrew_nenakhov wrote:
| Story of young roland is... Too formulaic. Writing
| romance is definitely not king's forte.
| murph-almighty wrote:
| I fell off of Dark Tower during the flashback sequence in the
| 4th book, but up until that point I agree it was a solid and
| off-putting story.
| oldprogrammer2 wrote:
| The Dark Tower is one of my favorites, probably because King
| doesn't feel constrained by convention or genre. And if you
| have read King's other works you will appreciate the
| connections to his universe throughout, particularly The
| Stand and Salem's Lot.
|
| Like others have said, the first 2 books are particularly
| good. But, be warned that the second book deals with a lot of
| racial and sexual issues, and King does not have a filter.
| The fourth book is a prequel, and really stands on its own as
| a novel, but really threw off the rhythm of the series for
| me. I had a hard time getting into it because I wanted to
| resume the primary storyline. The ending does come with a
| warning, but I think it was perfect.
| hutzlibu wrote:
| "The Dark Tower series by Stephen King. Some very powerful
| stories in there. The first book is pretty short so it is a
| good way to try it out. Though I think it hooks from the very
| start. "
|
| I wasn't really hooked. I think it was a interesting read,
| but I got no motivation to read further. Might have been,
| because I read a note from King before, that he also did no
| knew yet, how the tower worked. And he just wrote freely to
| explore it, too. So I expected the story to have even bigger
| holes in the plot than his ordinary books and trouble to get
| the story lines together in a consistent way in the end,
| leaving too many logic errors.
|
| But maybe I should give the tower a second try one day.
| unbalancedevh wrote:
| I enjoyed the first book in that series so much that after
| the first time I read it I immediately started it again.
| But every other book in the series was a disappointment
| compared to that. They all seemed to fall much more into
| his generic style.
| climb_stealth wrote:
| Hmmm, if the beginning wasn't convincing then I somewhat
| doubt that the rest of the series is going to be a much
| better experience. And yeah, I don't think the tower
| mechanics really work out in the end. But it didn't bother
| me personally.
|
| I haven't actually read any other books by him.
| [deleted]
| hutzlibu wrote:
| "I haven't actually read any other books by him. "
|
| He's very good at coming up with creative plots and good
| storytelling - but after a while it all seems generic and
| kind of the same - and he is not good (or doesn't bother
| enough as people buy it anyway) to avoid lots of
| plotholes in the stories and logic gaps. Or rather to
| bring the story lines together in the end, he seems to
| use ductape.
|
| So I enjoyed his short stories much more, as they were
| much more consistent, than the big, blown up
| "masterworks" of him.
| hijp wrote:
| I read the first book and like you thought it was just
| interesting, but it was the juxtaposition of book one and
| two that made me go "i have to finish this".
|
| * not really a spoiler, it happens at the very start of
| book two [rot13] *
|
| ====
|
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| gung bcraf vagb gur zvaq bs n urebva nqqvpg ba n cynar va
| gur 70f. vg jnf fb qvssrerag guna nalguvat yrnqvat hc gb vg
| gung v jnf oybja njnl.
|
| Obbx 4 jnf bar bs zl snibevgrf, vg pbzcyrgryl chgf gur znva
| fgbel gb gur fvqr naq tbrf onpx gb jura gur thafyvatre jnf
| nebhaq 14 ba bar bs uvf svefg zvffvbaf. gur jbeyq ohvyqvat
| vf vaperqvoyr.
|
| ====
|
| some bits are a drag, some are so cheezy, but you just roll
| with it and it's a fun ride with some amazing high points.
| sam_goody wrote:
| I'll just rot13 this and anyone who's interested will
| decode it in less time that it takes me to type it - why,
| most fellows here will just move each char thirteen to
| the left in their head...
|
| I love HN
| spyrefused wrote:
| Of the last few years, the author I have enjoyed the most has
| undoubtedly been Joe Abercrombie, especially "The First Law".
| elyobo wrote:
| I read the Assassin's Apprentice series through, but it didn't
| really satisfy, and I haven't read anything else by the author.
| I like the Malazan ones, and ASoIF, a lot more - partly the
| grimdark, but more so the overall complexity of the plot. While
| Hobb's work was pleasant it just didn't really engage me.
| tomlagier wrote:
| I really liked the first book and parts of the 2nd and 3rd,
| but man the 3rd book really threw me off the series. Just a
| really unsatisfying way to land a trilogy - all of the stress
| and torment that Fitz had gone through for a couple of
| thousand pages across the 3 books is given just a few pages
| at the end, not even in-character, to pay off.
|
| Wonderful prose but man the storytelling was a
| disappointment. Put me off her work completely.
| gradstudent wrote:
| Re-read the Assassin books recently afte revering them/Hobb
| as a kid. They're still good but I found plenty to critique
| this time around. Like, Fitz receives constant physical and
| emotional abuse from everyone around him but he remains
| ever loyal. It makes for exhausting reading at various
| points and his choices becomes increasingly hard to
| justify. Especially since those around him move on with
| their lives while he remains stuck: always agonising but
| ultimately never doing anything for himself. I also thought
| the antagonists were rather one dimensional haters, with
| not very interesting arcs.
|
| Anyway! I don't mean to complain. These remain cherished
| books for me!
| tomlagier wrote:
| I just worked through them so it's a bit of a fresh
| wound. I wanted so badly for there to be a big satisfying
| payoff!
| thaumasiotes wrote:
| > Wonderful prose but man the storytelling was a
| disappointment.
|
| If you're looking for quality prose with a confusing, hard-
| to-perceive story in the background, I can recommend
| Patricia A. McKillip. Most famously, I think, the Riddle-
| Master books, but most of her fantasy stuff is like this.
|
| It's not so much that the storytelling is disappointing as
| that it's hard to understand what's supposed to be going
| on. But the writing style is something else.
| thaumasiotes wrote:
| As a followup, _The 13 Clocks_ by James Thurber is a very
| short book, but it has some of the best writing I 've
| ever seen. The story is not confusing, but it's nothing
| particularly special either.
| tempestn wrote:
| To each their own. I've found Malazan to be quite a slog.
| Enjoyable in parts, but too many characters, too broad in
| scope for me. I'm on the final book now, and am going to
| finish it, but I'll feel more relief than anything when I'm
| done! The Assassin's Apprentice series, being from the first
| person perspective is in many ways its polar opposite. Each
| style has its advantages, but I've found I prefer stories
| where I can really get to know a few characters, rather than
| necessarily needing a truly massive, sprawling world.
| (Kingkiller Chronicle is probably my favourite; hope I get to
| read the rest of it eventually.)
|
| I notice a similar trend in my enjoyment of RPGs, preferring
| something with a fairly linear storyline to more open world
| games.
| elyobo wrote:
| Yeah, I thought Hobbs' books were well written, just not as
| much to my taste. I'm less interested in individual
| characters, or well formed prose (although both are good to
| have), than plot.
|
| I don't really notice much difference in first and third
| person perspectives once into a book, although it's more
| noticeable when starting out. Second person is more jarring
| - I've read The Raven Tower and Harrow The Ninth recently,
| both being all or largely in second person.
|
| Interesting point you make with regards to RPGs - open
| worlds are addictive to me (I played Skyrim for many, many
| years - and have played almost everything in the Elder
| Scrolls series).
| tempestn wrote:
| Ha, yeah, there's definitely a parallel there. I'm much
| more of a fan of things like Baldur's Gate, Planescape
| Torment, and more recently the Dragon Age series (or at
| least the first couple. Undecided on 3 so far...) I tried
| to get into both Morrowind and Skyrim, but just didn't
| find they did it for me. Similar to the Fallout series
| (which I assume you'd enjoy as well if you haven't played
| them!)
|
| Re books, Character development is probably #1 for me. I
| like a good plot as well though, but I prefer one that
| focuses on fewer characters in order to move forward with
| them more quickly. With something like Malazan or, say,
| Wheel of Time (which wasn't as well written maybe, but
| had quite a compelling plot) I find myself spending the
| whole time looking forward to the 10% of the book with
| the characters I actually care about; the rest can start
| to just feel like unnecessary filler almost.
| bitexploder wrote:
| I'm not convinced anyone has ever read of of the Malazan
| series. Sure, it's theoretically possible, but has anyone
| really read /every/ word? Jokes aside, I love epic fantasy,
| but that series was just a little too epic for me. Wheel of
| Time has a nice balance, you really get to meet the main
| characters, it just takes a while.
| tempestn wrote:
| Ha, I admit for the last couple of books I've resorted to
| Google's "read aloud" option to listen my way through it
| while working out and such things. So I'm getting the
| gist, but definitely not taking in every word (let alone
| _reading_ them)!
|
| It's been a long time since I read WoT. I recall tearing
| through the first few books that were primarily focused
| on Rand & party. Aside from female character perspectives
| being frustratingly one-dimensional and stereotypical, I
| found it great. But then it started broadening, where
| each book seemed to spend less and less time on the main
| characters, and instead introduced all these other
| factions and settings and such that didn't immediately
| tie in in any obvious way. It did all (mostly) come
| together eventually (with Sanderson's help), but again I
| feel like the important parts could have been told
| without spending so many pages in other places. But hey,
| that's just my taste; clearly others love that!
| vessenes wrote:
| I read it all.
|
| I would say it needed a series re-edit. First book or two
| are really differently paced from the end; those two
| should probably get bulked up a bit, and pulled fully
| into the final story lore.
|
| Then the series needs a trim down, probably like 33% of
| pages. It's possible some of the story arcs need to be
| moved around as well for better readability.
|
| I have just specified like a decade of hard labor, I
| know. :)
|
| With that done, I think Malazan could be considered one
| of the all-time great fantasy series. As it stands, it
| meanders too much at times, and it falls into a sort of
| military + fantasy sub-genre which I think lessens the
| impact of the overall story -- it really is an epic RPG-
| style quest involving hundreds of characters with a
| (mostly) satisfying finale.
| iamacyborg wrote:
| The problem with the series is it seems Erikson wants to
| use it as a vehicle to talk about a wide range of
| societal issues, which means we end up with hundreds of
| pages of Bugg or Kruppe inner dialogue which can be
| pretty painful at time.
|
| Maybe that's what separates it from other series though.
| gpderetta wrote:
| I was put off by the bad writing. Good writing is really
| wasted on me, I mostly care for it to be sufficient
| enough not to get in the way of enjoying the story. In my
| opinion Malazan does not reach even that level, which is
| too bad as I enjoyed the word building and the most of
| the characters. For the most part it reads like a DM
| recounting their D&D campaign (which I understand it is
| exactly what it is), but what might work (or just be
| overlooked) on an interactive RPG session doesn't
| necessarily work on a book.
|
| The first book was very bad, the second book was actually
| much better and I enjoyed it (I assume the editing was
| much more extensive), but the third book was again barely
| readable and put me off the series.
|
| I might start it again at sometime in the future, because
| it is definitely something I would otherwise enjoy. I
| think I read somewhere that the third book might actually
| have been written before the second, which gives me hope.
| disgruntledphd2 wrote:
| I think I've reread Malazan about ten times now,
| generally once a year, and each time I get new things out
| of it.
|
| And what I love the most is that he planned ten books
| rather than needing to shoehorn in extra books after
| planning a trilogy.
|
| I absolutely adore the huge cast of characters and the
| fact that you kinda need to pay attention to get the most
| out of it.
| tempestn wrote:
| I struggle to understand how you even get through it in a
| year, let alone re-reading it _every_ year.
| disgruntledphd2 wrote:
| I don't watch TV, and read for at least an hour per day.
|
| I've been reading a lot since I was very, very young, and
| have gotten better at it. To be fair, I do have to stop
| myself from skimming, which is fine with most books but
| definitely not Malazan.
|
| And also, I probably forget most of it after I finish it,
| until I read it again.
| masklinn wrote:
| Depending how (fast) they read, it can be as little as
| 150h of reading, which is a month or 3 depending how much
| time they can devote to it.
|
| The audiobooks are 390h total (16 days 5h according to
| Wikipedia). If your commute takes an hour each way,
| that's less than a year even if you only ever listen to
| it while commuting.
| GordonS wrote:
| I'm a fan of Robin Hobb too, getting my start with the Farseer
| Trilogy in the early 00's.
|
| Her work is quite unique, I think - as you say, it's epic
| fantasy, but with a slant I haven't seen before. I'll happily
| second a recommendation for fantasy readers.
|
| I hope she's doing OK, and would be very happy to read more
| from her, if it comes to her.
| gpderetta wrote:
| Can't recommend her enough as well (Currently reading the last
| book of the third trilogy).
|
| I didn't enjoy the first book too much, less epic scope than I
| was expecting and I don't like child protagonists very much.
|
| But the writing was excellent and after a year hiatus and a
| streak of questionably written books (Malazan was one of
| them...), I picked her up again. Halfway through the second
| book I realized I was cheering to Kettricken charge to aid Fitz
| and I was hooked.
|
| Since then each book has been better than the one before.
| hutzlibu wrote:
| " Bad things definitely happen, but it's more hopeful and
| humane than something like Malazan or Song of Ice and Fire."
|
| Ok, I agree on the positive outlook in her books in general
| (and I have not read the other books you mentioned), but I
| remember, that some books ended in a very dark way, leaving
| also me in a very dark mood. I felt a lot with poor young Fitz
| and the books affected me a lot in my teenage years.
|
| But I never finished them, the last I read was Fools Fate quite
| some time ago ...
|
| "The final trilogy brings so many elements together, and the
| ending is shatteringly powerful."
|
| So this sounds very interesting and after a short research,
| this means I have to continue with Dragon Keeper, Dragon Haven,
| City of Dragons, Blood of Dragons, Fool's Assassin, Fool's
| Quest and then finally Assassin's Fate.
|
| Well, if I treat my own animal not too bad and my baby animals
| give me some rest - I might one day finish them, too.
| lta wrote:
| I entirely agree with your message and can only support the
| recommendation about those great books I've read countless
| times.
| dilippkumar wrote:
| > While this is epic fantasy, it's _not_ at all grimdark. Bad
| things definitely happen, but it's more hopeful and humane than
| something like Malazan or Song of Ice and Fire.
|
| I will always read anything recommend by a person who uses
| Malazan as a benchmark.
|
| Purchasing this book right now.
| ryantgtg wrote:
| The link isn't loading for me right now, so I'll just add to
| the appreciation for Hobb. I'm currently reading book 13 (4th
| in the Rain Wild Chronicles). They're all great!
|
| I picked up The Assassin's Apprentice while looking for
| something to fill the Rothfuss void. I was instantly hooked.
| The tone and the pace was just right for me. I really like that
| they are so character-driven, deeply exploring the characters'
| emotions, history, flaws, etc. And she's great at having the
| plot build and build until basically everything is going wrong,
| and then she delivers a super satisfying ending.
|
| I usually take a short break between each tril, but I might
| just go straight into her last batch after I finish this book.
| harveynick wrote:
| If there's a Robin Hobb trilogy you need a break before
| starting it's this one. It left me a sobbing mess on more
| than one occasion.
| cosmie wrote:
| I concur with all of this!
|
| The way she uses perception, perspective, and cognitive biases
| are, as you say, shatteringly powerful. Particularly with her
| stream-of-consciousness writing style, where you so naturally
| get sucked into the character's mental framework. The final
| trilogy in particular that brings it all together, but even
| within the individual trilogies she's constantly doing it.
|
| I started reading her books back when I was still in school,
| and they had a fundamental impact on my life. It fundamentally
| altered the way I see things, and the career path I eventually
| took. I couldn't even articulate exactly how, until I stumbled
| upon the concept of systems thinking[1] a few years ago and
| realized that was what she had given me an awareness of. Which
| then led me to these[2][3], which pretty much describe how I
| had started seeing and approaching things after reading Robin
| Hobb's books.
|
| Not sure if it would have been as impactful if I hadn't read
| them at such an impressionable age, but I'm forever grateful
| that I did. And for that, Robin Hobb will always reign supreme
| on my favorite author list.
|
| [1]
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Systems_theory#Systems_thinkin...
|
| [2] http://donellameadows.org/archives/dancing-with-systems/
|
| [3] http://donellameadows.org/archives/leverage-points-places-
| to...
| ajarmst wrote:
| I'm waiting for the news that PETA activists have captured and
| euthanized Robin Hobb to end his suffering. After spaying him, of
| course.
| CRConrad wrote:
| Her.
| edoceo wrote:
| Oh, and eyesight. Like, I had to up-scale the default font sizes
| on mobile and now all sites (this one especially) are harder to
| use.
|
| Use responsive design people! You'll need it someday!!
| maxqin1 wrote:
| No joke. The font on my mom's phone is so large that buttons
| were "missing" from her parking app. I told her she had to be
| wrong, until I saw it myself. And that's also on a newer model
| galaxy note (big screen). She's in her 50s.
| nradov wrote:
| It's a shame that Google doesn't have stricter accessibility
| requirements on their app store. This should be a basic part
| of testing any mobile app.
| lupire wrote:
| Google's own stuff barely works at large font size. And
| half the time it "works" by refusing to be large size.
| clcaev wrote:
| I just plead to my fellow developers to stay well under 80
| columns... my largest monitor in a readable font can fit 77
| characters wide.
| Stratoscope wrote:
| Word wrap and proportional fonts are your friend.
|
| Contrary to what many developers believe, coding in a
| proportional font can be quite practical and enjoyable. And
| it fits a lot more horizontal text on the screen for the same
| visual font size.
|
| There are some exceptions, of course, such as code dealing
| with bit patterns or matrices where you want things to align
| vertically.
|
| But for most of the code most of us read and write, that
| isn't an issue. As a specific example, Python code formatted
| with Black is equally readable in a monospaced or
| proportional font.
|
| And then when a line is too long - whatever font you use -
| word wrap fixes it. Even if word wrapping looks a little
| sloppy sometimes, it sure beats having to scroll
| horizontally.
| Nition wrote:
| I kinda wish there was a version of Fira Sans with the
| ligatures from Fira Code.
|
| I code with a monospaced front right now, but I agree with
| you that there's rarely a serious need for it, and
| proportional can be easier to read.
| lupire wrote:
| How big is your monitor?
| TrispusAttucks wrote:
| Reminds me of Sailing to Byzantium [1]
|
| O sages standing in God's holy fire As in the gold mosaic of a
| wall, Come from the holy fire, perne in a gyre, And be the
| singing-masters of my soul. Consume my heart away; sick with
| desire And fastened to a dying animal It knows not what it is;
| and gather me Into the artifice of eternity.
|
| [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sailing_to_Byzantium
| [deleted]
| CryptoPunk wrote:
| Humanity needs to put a few hundred billion dollars a year into
| basic medical research, and in particular, in anti-aging
| research.
|
| It could lead to advances that save orders of magnitude more
| lives, and add orders of magnitude more disability-free life
| years, than everything that is achieved by all the spending on
| healthcare taking place right now worldwide.
| terminalserver wrote:
| That's one of the most surprising and unwelcome parts of getting
| older .... being tired.
|
| It's started at about 51 years old. Going to bed early, feeling
| so tired at the end of the day, seeing 9pm as "late".
|
| Not having the energy of earlier days.
|
| I'm otherwise healthy but so damn tired all the time.
| every wrote:
| As luck would have it, today is my birthday. I am now officially
| 72 years old. My approach to the inevitable is, while getting
| older is certainly no picnic at the park, it definitely beats the
| hell out of the alternative. So far at least...
| jacquesm wrote:
| Happy Birthday from the Low Countries, and may many more
| follow.
| sebmellen wrote:
| Happy birthday! Hope it was a good one :). You've got the same
| birthday as Billy Joel.
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/May_9
|
| P.S. fantastic list you've got here:
| https://every.sdf.org/some_external_stuff/music/.
| every wrote:
| Thanks. Spent much of the day playing nethack, a traditional
| elderly pursuit I believe...
| [deleted]
| maerF0x0 wrote:
| > It slept only when I no longer needed its labor at the end of a
| long day. Day after day of steady work, night sleep sacrificed
| for more work; It didn't seem to mind
|
| No problem, we can still extract a little more shareholder value.
| Simply turn them to to glue [1]
|
| [1]: https://www.sparknotes.com/lit/animalfarm/section9/
| uglygoblin wrote:
| I wish Robin Hobb all the years she desires and thank her deeply
| for gifting us with her stories so this animal could retreat to
| them when it needed a vacation from reality.
| Jyaif wrote:
| > unable to find a comfortable position for sleep
|
| Could this problem be solved with an advanced motorized bed that
| allows you to configure the surface on which you rest?
| bgdkbtv wrote:
| I think it is just to do with restlessness, and not the bed.
| When you are proper tired you can fall asleep anywhere in any
| position.
| notacoward wrote:
| Only if you're using "proper tired" to mean exhausted.
| Restlessness does not only come from not being tired yet.
| It's entirely possible to be very very tired and yet
| restless. It happens to toddlers, it happens to older people,
| it happens to people with all sorts of medical conditions.
| Trying to keep going until exhaustion outweighs all those
| other issues is _really_ hard on the body and mind. Waking up
| with tingling extremities, stressed muscles and joints, or
| even permanent nerve damage because you slept in a bad
| position isn 't so great either.
|
| Maybe tiredness, relaxation, and ability to sleep are all in
| sync for you. Good for you. I remember when I could have said
| the same, but I _never_ made the mistake of assuming that my
| experience was everyone else 's.
| possibleworlds wrote:
| Loved Robin Hobb when I was a kid. I read a LOT of fantasy back
| then and she was up the top of the list next to GRRM for me.
|
| The closest thing to traditional fantasy I have read in a very
| long time is Book of the New Sun by Gene Wolfe, and now I am bit
| broken trying to chase a similar hit. If anyone has any
| recommends to scratch the post BOTNS itch please do share.
| gpderetta wrote:
| BOTNS is inspired by Vance's Dying Earth tales. If you haven't
| read them, I strongly recommend them. In fact, anything by
| Vance is great, my favorite being his Lyonesse Trilogy. His
| stories certainly do not have the depth of BOTNS, but the
| characters are great, the stories are fun, and his prose is
| unique and extremely enjoyable, at least by me.
| possibleworlds wrote:
| Never thought of reading Vance. Thanks!
| 8fGTBjZxBcHq wrote:
| Some of my favorite Wolfe work is his Latro series. It takes
| place in antiquity but is fairly fantastical.
|
| It's a very different setting, but tonally similar in some
| ways. A lot of ancient cultural and religious stuff is key to
| the plot but not explained (and often the protagonist is lost
| too for reasons that will be obvious when you start) so you get
| that same backstory-detective experience when reading.
|
| It also takes the unreliable narrator trope to weird new
| lengths even by Wolfe's standards. I won't get into the details
| for spoiler reasons but the narrator is unwittingly unreliable
| for reasons outside of his control but is fully aware of this
| state. While the reader regularly has information that the
| protagonist should have but no longer does. The prose mechanics
| of how this is achieved is wonderful.
| chx wrote:
| This has always been my biggest fear: a slowly fading mind
| trapped in a more rapidly fading body.
| synesso wrote:
| I was convinced this article was about the experience of being in
| your 40s, until I got to the end.
| Sophistifunk wrote:
| 70? I'll be 41 in a few weeks and that's me now :(
| kkoncevicius wrote:
| The animal separation part is confusing to me. Not because of any
| "mind versus matter" dilemmas but because of desires.
|
| The author says that the animal wants to relax and lie down. But
| where is the distinction here? If you drink coffee when you feel
| the urge - that's on you, but if you relax when you feel like it
| - then it's the animal? Can it be that all those desires for
| working hard and having coffee and alcohol was part of the animal
| instinct?
|
| I don't see how to decouple those, even thou I am sympathetic to
| the animal / inside animal distinction.
| robscallsign wrote:
| > The animal separation part is confusing to me.
|
| Have you read her fiction, particularly the Farseer and Tawny
| Man trilogies? Her fantasy universe, and the main characters,
| involve bonding with an animal so completely that you are
| essentially one combined being that inhabits both bodies. An
| emotional peak of the series involve the slow process of aging,
| and eventual passing of one of the main characters, who happens
| to be a wolf that is bonded.
|
| Her phrasing here isn't just whimsical musings, but a bit of
| creative writing that combines her reflections on aging with an
| homage to her fictional work and style. Her words and message
| here will connect deeply with those familiar with her work, or
| at least it did with me.
| remify wrote:
| Great explanation, thank you
| kayodelycaon wrote:
| > The author says that the animal wants to relax and lie down.
|
| The author does not say this. She said her body needed this and
| she ignored that need.
|
| The animal being talked about is her body and everything else
| is her regrets of not taking care of it. That's all.
| phyzome wrote:
| It's right there towards the end: She wishes she had treated
| her body as well as she would have treated any other animal.
| quickthrower2 wrote:
| I feel this way at 41, some kind of ME/CFS but need to get
| diagnosed (or sufficient lack of diagnosis). I'd say when I have
| energy I can be like 30, but it's limited and I am soon 80 again.
| A lot of rest I'm back to 30.
|
| I try to think of it as restriction inspires creativity. What
| kind of side hussle can I do to make money? Well one that doesn't
| involve managing people, raising money, or even too much coding.
| I am now making a small income selling lines on eBay!
| podgaj wrote:
| I laugh when I see people running for 6 miles are doing marathons
| or Iron Man's. How can anyone think that is healthy and good for
| the long term functioning of the body? Study after study has
| shown that we are meant to be "lazy". But no one wants to hear
| that.
|
| So listen to this guy, relax!
| ljhsiung wrote:
| Numerous studies show that exercise provides U-shaped benefits
| to health [1], [2].
|
| Specific to cardiovascular disease, repeat marathon runners [3]
| have higher calcium buildup than those who do not run in
| marathons, which as Robin might say, is one of those cases
| where the animal is driven too hard.
|
| While you have a point for extreme exertion, I'm not sure what
| you mean by "lazy". Current general recommendations are 150
| minutes a week, or <30 minutes a day [4], which definitely
| falls underneath moderate exercise. I don't think "no one" is
| ignoring these recommendations (or, at least, they agree with
| them-- few people follow them :^)).
|
| As for your grandpa's longevity-- your genetics is just a risk
| modifier, not a nullifier. Wearing a seatbelt doesn't prevent
| your death, it just reduces your odds of it during a car crash.
| So, at least, I hope _you still_ wear your seatbelt, because
| the time cost of this activity is so miniscule compared to the
| time reward.
|
| As I like to say, "Run for your life! At a comfortable pace,
| and not too far" [5]
|
| EDIT: I should add-- I ran competitively a few years ago. My
| "animal" is no longer as fierce, and thus am a bit more
| moderate these days. But there is a large emotional aspect and
| validation to pushing yourself that goes beyond physical
| health. As with any sport-- running, swimming, football,
| basketball-- the physical toll is worth it. This, though, is
| what I would classify under Robin's description of a "tired
| animal" and is likely what Bolt, MJ, etc. feels. When she says
| she "wishes she treated her animal better", I don't think she
| means this, at least when it comes to exercise.
|
| [1] https://journals.lww.com/acsm-
| msse/Abstract/9000/Endurance_a...
|
| [2] https://themedicalroundtable.com/article/role-physical-
| fitne...
|
| [3] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21200345/
|
| [4]
| https://www.cdc.gov/physicalactivity/basics/adults/index.htm
|
| [5] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6U728AZnV0
| pferde wrote:
| > Specific to cardiovascular disease, repeat marathon runners
| [3] have higher calcium buildup than those who do not run in
| marathons
|
| The linked study did not say anything about runners versus
| non-runners, so I would be careful in making such statement.
|
| From the study: "We studied 100 male presumably healthy
| runners, aged 50-75 yr, who completed at least five marathons
| during the preceding 3 yr."
|
| The study involved older marathon runners and found artery
| calcium plaque in some of them. It however did not include a
| comparable group of non-runners. It is entirely likely that
| the calcium plaque buildup happens in higher age regardless
| of lifestyle.
|
| Or perhaps frequent marathon runners have less of it than
| non-runners. Or more of it. The point is that this study does
| not say what you claim it says.
| cocothem wrote:
| thanks for the tedx talk, good one
| nradov wrote:
| The actual studies show there is a J-shaped curve relationship
| between endurance sports training and long term health. Most
| people in affluent societies are way over on the left side of
| the curve and could improve long term functioning through more
| exercise. The risks for chronic problems like heart scarring,
| arterial calcification, and musculoskeletal injuries only start
| to increase once you get over about 20 hours per week.
|
| Elderly people frequently die because they get weak, then they
| fall and end up bedridden. At that point they don't last very
| long.
| im3w1l wrote:
| Why don't they last long after becoming bedridden?
| ketzo wrote:
| Your body really isn't meant to stay horizontal 23+
| hours/day, and that's what many elderly people are reduced
| to after a bad fall.
|
| Bed sores develop very quickly, and an elderly immune
| system often simply isn't equipped to fight them. Gangrene
| and amputations are _extremely_ common in end-of-life care.
| Jiocus wrote:
| For clarity, this sets in as the old body may still be
| slowly or practically unable to recover from the first
| event, _the fall_ (e.g. a broken bone).
| algorias wrote:
| Your circulatory system is actively pumped by the heart,
| but also passively pumped by everyday muscle movements.
| Lack of movement decreases oxygenation and clearance of
| metabolic byproducts.
| hombre_fatal wrote:
| Be wary of being desperate to justify your lifestyle. For
| example, let's see some of these studies that celebrate the
| sedentary lifestyle impact on health.
| podgaj wrote:
| I didn't say I advocated for A sedimentary lifestyle. There's
| a big difference between being active and intense exercise.
|
| And it's not just quantity of life, but quality of life. I
| know a bunch of long distance runners and I can't tell you
| how many of them had knee surgery and/or, back problems.
| randomopining wrote:
| 6 miles isn't that long lol. Exercise is good. Otherwise you
| get weak and shrivel up.
| fossuser wrote:
| There's a weird thing in the Midwest where I grew up where
| people talk about exercise as if it's unhealthy (and
| basically nobody exercises).
|
| Then you come to the Bay Area and see just how much people
| can really exercise. Older people exercising here seem way
| healthier than where I grew up.
|
| Still when I go home if I say I run 3mi a day people say
| things like, "that's bad for your knees" etc. or look at you
| like you're crazy. In the Bay Area it's like I don't work out
| at all by comparison.
| kstrauser wrote:
| That was my experience, too. I ran one leg of the Big Sur
| marathon relay. My local friends were like "next year
| you'll do a half!" My childhood friends were like "so you
| never, ever have to do that again, right?"
| podgaj wrote:
| My grandfather lived in 98 never exercised in his life. I
| know it's an anecdote, but it's still data.
| randomopining wrote:
| It's quality of life too. For pretty much every human,
| finding a way to get outside and breath hard is going to
| feel good. You're gonna sleep better etc.
|
| Yeah we all know people who drink 3 cokes a day and aren't
| fat etc... but I know if I drink a lot of beers or cokes or
| whatever I feel terrible. When I go for hill sprints I feel
| amazing after.
|
| It's clearly a good habit in a healthy life.
| kaesar14 wrote:
| I'll find you a couple tens of millions of people who didnt
| exercise who died well before 98
| ptero wrote:
| My grandfather lived into his 90s and as far as I know
| never "exercised". But during a lot of his life he split
| firewood and worked 8-hour shifts at a factory (before
| walking home for an hour or so) and did a lot of other
| things that would be much more vigorous than regular
| exercise. A different anecdote.
| qwertox wrote:
| I never exercised for 20 years. My back did hurt so much
| that I had to roll out of bed every morning. I started
| exercising two years ago and now this is no longer an
| issue.
|
| He must have had _some_ kind of exercise, even if it was
| labeled as "chores" or "job".
| monsieurbanana wrote:
| > I know it's an anecdote, but it's still data
|
| That's useful if it's about a subject where there's no
| studies.
|
| But this is whether exercise improves quality of life.
| There's no shortage of studies about it. Implying that a
| single anecdote is still data is the bad kind of
| technically true.
|
| I would link to one of those studies, but there's too many
| of them and I admit I don't know what to choose.
|
| https://scholar.google.com.sg/scholar?q=physical+activity+q
| u...
|
| https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0167
| 4...
|
| https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0091
| 7...
| Buttons840 wrote:
| I'm not aware of any such studies, can you recommend one to
| start with?
| teekert wrote:
| This hits home, I'm pushing 40 and I can hardly walk at the
| moment, probably because I was barefoot at home, on a hard floor,
| doing about 2500 steps a day (to the coffee machine and back).
| Before lock down I easily did 12000 on shoes... Then one day lock
| down ends and I go boxing, boom, over-strained feet. Now
| everything starts to ache because I haven't been able to move
| normally for months now. The animal requires maintenance, love,
| attention. So different from 20 years ago when it was always
| there when I needed it, always with 0 issues even if I skipped a
| night and went to work a full day after. I regret not caring for
| it better.
|
| Regarding the feet: They think I wore down my fat pads, but only
| after I recently got x-rays and ultrasound investigations. Before
| that I was treated (treated is a big word for a bit of stretching
| and pain killers) as if I had plantar fasciosis.
| arvindrajnaidu wrote:
| The animal is old and secretly yearns to be young. Its the nature
| of the beast.
| WarOnPrivacy wrote:
| "Health nuts are going to feel stupid someday, lying in hospitals
| dying of nothing."
|
| -- Redd Foxx
| enw wrote:
| There's something very comforting about vices.
|
| A vice is a psychological safety net. The unknown unknowns are
| infinite, so you can always romanticize life without them, and
| the effect that would have. That gives you hope, and hope is
| extremely powerful.
| blfr wrote:
| _Better food, more exercise, more relaxation... but I also wonder
| if it would have made any difference._
|
| Yes. I'm only half OP's age but working out and eating well (well
| for me means much more) has made all the little aches I started
| to have in my 20s go away and made me much calmer, I can also
| sleep pretty much anywhere and at any time.
|
| More interestingly though,
|
| _Me, and the animal I live inside._
|
| there is no animal you live inside, this is not a meat vehicle
| for something else, your body is you, it's not some machine you
| merely inhabit. Its/your gut will affect your mood, its
| limitations are your limitations, being physically strong will
| make you feel strong and keep anxieties at bay.
| Ensorceled wrote:
| > there is no animal you live inside, this is not a meat
| vehicle for something else, your body is you, it's not some
| machine you merely inhabit.
|
| It always drives me crazy when people take the work of a poet
| or author literally and then pedantically hound any joy or
| meaning out of the words.
|
| The point is that humans are animals, treat your animal well.
| joeberon wrote:
| It drives me crazy when people get so upset over any kind of
| comment too. Why not take it literally? That's a totally
| valid interpretation of the writing.
|
| Also, it's entirely your perception that it is "hounding any
| joy and meaning out of the words". For me, the idea of myself
| and my body being inseparable is much more joyful than the
| original post, which paints the mind more like a mental
| prisoner trapped inside of an animals body.
|
| I'll take the interpretation of the comment you replied to,
| thanks!
| Ensorceled wrote:
| > Why not take it literally? That's a totally valid
| interpretation of the writing.
|
| She's a fantasy writer. Do you take her fantasy novels
| literally as well? Do you think she is actually riding
| around in her "animal" body like that alien in "Men in
| Black"?
|
| > Also, it's entirely your perception that it is "hounding
| any joy and meaning out of the words".
|
| Ummm, yes, of course it is.
|
| > For me, the idea of myself and my body being inseparable
| is much more joyful than the original post
|
| I also feel my body and mind are inseparable. But I don't
| think that Robb is proposing mind/body disassociation
| because I didn't read her literally. And, for all I know,
| maybe Robb does have mind/body disassociation and this is
| how she copes.
|
| In fact, because I didn't read her literally, I think she
| may actually be in agreement with you.
|
| Feel free to express your opinion!
|
| > I'll take the interpretation of the comment you replied
| to, thanks!
|
| Ok. I'm glad for you.
| earthboundkid wrote:
| You can make that point better if you cut the "inside" part
| and have the big reveal at the end be that you are the
| animal. Having the big reveal be that you're in the animal
| sets up a false distinction which doesn't help make the
| point.
| Ensorceled wrote:
| You are totally entitled to that opinion and critique. I
| disagree completely.
|
| Also, that would be a different essay that you wanted Robb
| to write, not the one that she did.
|
| There are many people who disassociate themselves, the
| inner "person", from their body. I have a friend with MS
| who practices this explicitly. This article reminds those
| people that they must still take care of their animal.
| Tade0 wrote:
| But at the same time our minds are something sort of built on
| top of our monkey brains.
|
| So-called "feral children" - people who didn't receive the
| appropriate attention in their early years to develop, among
| other things, language, are frighteningly less intelligent than
| their peers.
|
| We're animals, but we're also something more, held up only
| through an unbroken chain of socialization.
| polishdude20 wrote:
| Yes! Weightlifting is probably the number one best thing you
| can do for your body.
| mritchie712 wrote:
| Sprinting is a good alternative to weightlifting. Worth
| giving a shot if you're hesitant to lift weights or don't
| have the equipment / gym nearby.
|
| https://www.marksdailyapple.com/dear-mark-how-many-
| sprints-p...
| danenania wrote:
| Bodyweight fitness is also a great way to start. Until
| you're pretty far along, it's about as effective for
| gaining strength as weights, and has other benefits
| (balance, flexibility, coordination, etc).
|
| Lots of good info on the sidebar here:
| https://www.reddit.com/r/bodyweightfitness/
| PebblesRox wrote:
| Darebee is another nice resource for bodyweight fitness.
| https://darebee.com/
| steve_adams_86 wrote:
| Every time I stop, my quality of life drops like a lead
| weight.
|
| I have a sort of internal battle over this, but I love
| watching the numbers go up. They can't forever and they
| won't, but for the time being I find slipping another 2.5-5lb
| onto the bar incredibly gratifying.
|
| At the same time I know the numbers mean nothing and
| arriving, effort, and consistency are everything.
|
| Regardless, apart from god sleep, pushing myself with barbell
| training is the single thing I can point to that dramatically
| improves my mental and physical health.
| hedberg10 wrote:
| Don't get hung up on the numbers. What's gratifying now
| also has the power to be very demotivating later.
|
| Fall back to 75% or 50% every now and then and be conscious
| that it's not bad at all, but still progress.
|
| I don't know where you are in your lifting career, but it
| pays 5x later on, when numbers don't matter anymore. You'll
| be amazed how quickly you can build strength back up after
| a break or injury or how much muscle is still "just there".
| polishdude20 wrote:
| I used to have this mindset that the only thing that
| matters are the numbers going up. This was probably due
| to Mr getting all gung ho about starting strength when i
| first started lifting. I think this has actually served
| to prevent me from getting motivated to lift nowadays. I
| still get this feeling in the back of my kind saying
| "what's the point if you're lifting only half of what you
| used to?" . I've slowly tried to transition to the
| mindset that lifting at all on a particular day is a
| success.
| blfr wrote:
| You start lifting to look better, to attract women. You
| keep lifting for yourself, to get these numbers up.
| Finally, you lift for no reason whatsoever, because you
| cannot imagine not doing it. Every one of these steps is
| great.
| steve_adams_86 wrote:
| Absolutely! That's my story right there. In my mind this
| is sort of the process of acquiring any kind of wisdom.
| We inadvertently discover so many good things, and
| eventually stick with it because it becomes a sort of
| intrinsic knowledge that it needs to be done in order to
| live a good life.
|
| I don't think lifting weights would popularly fall into
| the category of being a wise thing to do, but I'm
| sticking to it. Conditioning your body is key to living
| your best life, and being healthy enough to help those
| around you live theirs.
| polishdude20 wrote:
| It's funny because I actually deadlifted the most I've
| ever had the day of my first date with my now girlfriend.
| It acted as a good nerve calmer. "If I can lift all this
| weight and have come this far, surely I can handle a
| first date" .
| steve_adams_86 wrote:
| I agree completely. I guess I'm around 15 years in and
| I've had enough setbacks, mental and physical, to know
| that just making it from the bed in the morning to the
| barbell at some point in the day is excellent on its own.
| Regardless, I get a real kick out of that feedback -
| seeing evidence of my strength increasing.
|
| > You'll be amazed how quickly you can build strength
| back up
|
| You're not kidding. My most recent break was my longest,
| and I was dreading coming back to it. I felt like a hot
| sack of garbage, any exercise was awful, and I was soft
| as it gets. But maybe 2 months after I started up again,
| my lifts were not all that far from where I left them. I
| had no idea I had it in me. I guess I took almost 3 years
| off from any regular lifting (had a baby and life got
| away from me).
|
| These days I don't really lift for anything other than
| strength and general well-being, though I started with a
| pretty explicit focus on building muscle, haha. I stick
| to a fairly basic 3x3 routine rotating a handful of
| compound lifts, then I've got a handful of calisthenics-
| based exercises I've come to really enjoy. Weighted pull
| ups, dips, push ups, some ring exercises, etc. I keep my
| reps low there too, usually between 5 and 10.
|
| I really love 3x3 these days because I find I can go hard
| without overdoing it. I used to do a 5x5 routine and
| sometimes, shit, I just don't want the extra reps at all.
| I don't need them. I'm there to condition my body, not
| beat the hell out of myself. With 3x3 I'm arguably
| stronger than I've ever been, less muscular, and
| definitely less injured. I never got hurt too much, but
| those nagging pains and aches aren't as much of a thing
| anymore even though I'm older and shittier than ever.
| It's definitely an individual choice, though. Some people
| love the higher rep, lighter weight thing. I'm a slow,
| lazy, poorly motivated person who's pretty please if they
| just manage to show up.
| polishdude20 wrote:
| Same for me. I started lifting again a month or so ago and
| started just feeling better mentally. Then I just lost the
| motivation for a bit and have stopped for a few weeks. It's
| hard to put my finger on it but I just don't feel as good
| without lifting
| thih9 wrote:
| For most benefit and minimum risk please do a health checkup
| before hitting the gym; especially if you never did a full
| checkup.
| sneak wrote:
| > _there is no animal you live inside, this is not a meat
| vehicle for something else, your body is you, it 's not some
| machine you merely inhabit._
|
| I wonder how history will view such statements once we manage
| the ability to uncouple our humanity from our meat prisons.
| Sargos wrote:
| Much of our humanity and ability to reason comes from our gut
| flora and various other parts of our body. Every year we
| learn a bit more about this complex relationship and how the
| brain is just one part of our consciousness and not the "CPU"
| as we used to believe so I become less convinced that we will
| achieve some kind of Matrix style integration within my
| lifetime. For what it's worth it seems most likely that we
| will figure out AGI before we lift consciousness into the
| digital realm and at that point it might be too late to go
| through the effort.
| joeberon wrote:
| And since our gut flora influences our mind so much, and
| since our mind influences our body so much (see the
| physical effects of stress), we can't really consider what
| _happens_ to our body to be separate from our mind either.
| If our body and mind are intimately linked, so are our
| minds and the food we eat. Personally I think that the
| distinction between those things is just some conventional
| idea we have that enables our interaction with the world.
| Does nature itself imply an inherent separation and cutoff
| point between the body and mind, and thus the mind and the
| entire universe?
| rchaud wrote:
| I doubt that's the discussion we'll be having. The technical
| leap required is too far away.
|
| Just like 'self-driving cars', people will spend more time
| defining to each other what self-driving means vs. what it
| actually is.
| joeberon wrote:
| Do you have any evidence to suspect such a thing will happen?
|
| I think it is much more likely that the "ghost in the shell"
| kind of idea will be seen as much more antiquated, and that
| it will be widely accepted that the body, mind, and indeed
| wider world are not really separate.
|
| Just because you read it in a science fiction book doesn't
| mean it reflects what will actually happen.
|
| > once we manage the ability to uncouple our humanity from
| our meat prisons.
|
| I wonder how history will view such statements once we
| realise that our humanity and our "meat prisons" are not two
| different things.
| danenania wrote:
| I suspect we will find that those things are not as neatly
| separable as some would like to think.
| arendtio wrote:
| > ... it is the only animal I have ever treated this way.
|
| I wonder if that is actually true. I am thinking about this video
| and how we humans are treating all the other animals on this
| planet:
|
| https://youtu.be/NxvQPzrg2Wg?t=165
|
| Sure the text is about something different, but at times I do
| wonder how cruel we are and how little we think about it. I like
| to imagine seeing some aliens doing to us what we are doing to
| all the animals.
| [deleted]
| earthboundkid wrote:
| > Me, and the animal I live inside.
|
| This dualism is unhelpful. You are the animal. You aren't a thing
| inside of yourself. Yes, sometimes your mind can be sharp and
| your body tired, but at the end of the day, you are the unity
| created by the synthesis, not some disembodied force.
|
| The worst thing about dualism is that people who think of
| themselves as not religious do it unreflectively, whereas when
| religious people do it, at least it's on the table as something
| up for debate.
| robscallsign wrote:
| I take it you haven't read her fictional work. Exploring this
| dualism is one of the main plot and emotional devices for
| several trilogies.
| awinter-py wrote:
| Though much is taken, much abides; and though We are not
| now that strength which in old days Moved earth and heaven,
| that which we are, we are, One equal temper of heroic
| hearts, Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will
| To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.
| ztjio wrote:
| You really should credit that which you quote.
|
| (It's Alfred Lord Tennyson)
| huxflux wrote:
| Robin Hobb is amazing, her books which begin with Assassin's
| Apprentice really helped me through extremely stressful periods
| of life being able from time to time to escape from reality and
| into another world and then return.
| nanomonkey wrote:
| For fans of Robin Hobb, I'd suggest looking into her works
| written under her real name, Megan Lindholm. I highly suggest,
| Wizard of the Pigeons.
| superkuh wrote:
| The unfortunate truth is that the things you can't control that
| effect your lifespan far outnumber and swamp the things you can.
| I hope as a technological civilization we can eventually change
| that but it's not going to be done by eating better or not
| staying up working late.
| mattjaynes wrote:
| For many people, there's a lot they can do to turn back the clock
| if they wish to do so. Sometimes it's just knowing what's
| possible.
|
| In my thirties, I was so consumed with career that I let my
| health go, I was very overweight, didn't exercise and just put
| all my focus into work and getting ahead. I developed all types
| of health problems and pictures of me from that time look like a
| fat old baby with a beard. It didn't help that I was still
| wearing clothes from the 90's. Quite embarrassing and I keep
| pictures from that era buried deep deep below the earth's mantle
| :)
|
| At age 40, I was recently out of a long-term relationship and
| moved to a new place and decided to get my health in order. I
| fixed my diet, started working out, updated my wardrobe,
| prioritized sleep, etc.
|
| Over the next year, I dropped the extra weight, put on quite a
| bit of muscle, dressed for the correct era, and overall re-made
| myself.
|
| A nice surprise was that losing weight and getting in shape
| resolved nearly all my health issues. I felt like I was in my
| twenties again - which was a small miracle since I felt like I
| was a senior citizen in my thirties.
|
| Naturally, my mood and confidence improved. I was dating again,
| and quickly realized that sexiness-gap is much more of a factor
| than age-gap. If there's no age-gap, but you're waaaay less sexy
| than someone else, society will have a problem with it. But even
| if there's a large age gap, and you are both at similar levels of
| "sexy", then society accepts it quite readily. Not saying that is
| good or bad - it's just how our modern society seems to be and
| was something surprising to me.
|
| Here are some things that helped me:
|
| * Set the barrier to working out as low as possible. I used
| resistance-bands at home. It's surprising how much muscle you can
| put on with resistance-bands. Set yourself up for success - it's
| a much lower hurdle to working out if you can just roll out of
| bed and workout in your underwear while listening to
| music/audiobook/etc. You can get super heavy-duty bands that even
| bodybuilders will struggle with - so don't think you _have_ to go
| to the gym to put on significant muscle. You don 't need to make
| a big financial investment here - your muscles will grow when
| working against significant resistance and they don't really care
| _how_ they get it - just that they get it in sufficient volume
| and consistency.
|
| * Ignore fad diets and follow only science/evidence based
| programs. The best I've found are "Renaissance Periodization" and
| Jeff Nippard. You want to follow those who are non-religious
| about any particular approach and willing to adjust their
| approach purely based on the best studies. I wasted soooo much
| time following crazy diets and fad workouts before I found good
| reliable data to work with, and that made all the difference.
|
| * Focus on the 99% that matters for diet and exercise. The
| essentials are very simple. But if you're looking for info on
| youtube and other places, the majority of videos/articles are
| focusing on optimizing the 1%. So you can waste a lot of time
| worrying about the 1% that matters very little and miss the 99%
| that matters immensely. Remember that fitness experts often get
| bored of focusing on the basics and will want to constantly
| explore the exotic fringes. Ignore the exotic fringes - they will
| be a huge waste of your time unless you are an elite athlete
| competing in world-class competitions.
|
| * Track what you eat in a calorie/macro counter app - at least
| until you get reliable intuition about it. I resisted this for a
| long time, but when I finally did it, I realized that my diet was
| insane. I was 900 calories one day and 4000 calories another day.
| My intuition about food and calories was terrible. It wasn't
| until I started counting calories that I realized what was what.
| Figuring out my maintenance calories also helped me to keep my
| energy levels more constant (my 900 calorie days were, non-
| surprisingly, the days I felt like a wet bag of sand).
|
| * For style, I found Pinterest to be a surprisingly good
| resource. If you find a style you like that is contemporary and
| works well for your age, body-type, etc, then you can find
| thousands of photos that provide good examples. Save all the ones
| you like and then go through them and look for patterns. Pay
| attention to colors, fit, etc. Start replacing your current
| wardrobe with the most common items that work well in the
| pictures. Observe what is working for others that are similar to
| you, and start modeling your style after them. This may feel a
| bit "vain" - but remember, you're not doing anyone any favors by
| showing up in poor style - do it for others if that helps you
| overcome that mental hurdle.
|
| * Be patient and gentle with yourself. Taking a note from the
| parent article: If you notice your dog got fat and out of shape,
| would you whip him and shame him, or gently encourage him and
| make it fun to exercise? Treat yourself at least as good as a dog
| you love. This will take time. The changes will be extremely
| subtle in the short-term, but will make a big difference long-
| term. Loving your inner animal will ensure it goes as fast as
| possible. Shaming or punishing your inner animal will only slow
| things down and cause you to resent the process. Be creative -
| make it fun - only boring people get bored.
|
| Most people let themselves atrophy as they age - so you may be
| surrounded by bad examples that will depress you about aging.
| Focus instead on the examples of people who are active, growing,
| and living amazing lives well into their 80's. Then the future of
| aging won't seem so dark.
| jordan801 wrote:
| I am unfamiliar with Robin Hobb, but I thoroughly enjoyed this
| short read. Now I see that she has books and she may have
| inspired me to get back into reading books.
| kizer wrote:
| I'm 26 and barely functional. Pushed too hard in sport in HS
| (swimming), then too hard in college. Got hired at one of the big
| tech out of college, but was so burnt out that I couldn't do the
| work and quit after a year. Only Adderall gives me some life ...
| for about an hour per dose (prescribed). I've been relaxing at
| home with my parents for two years, but I still feel like a
| zombie.
| smoldesu wrote:
| It's a pretty harrowing thought that given my age (barely still a
| teen) I may not live another 50 years. Between the mass pollution
| tainting our world, impending global warming and increased civil
| unrest, I figure the odds that my animal reaches 70 are not very
| high.
| maxerickson wrote:
| The environment likely has many less free toxins than it did
| when the author of the link was a teen.
|
| We have things to be concerned about (PFAS and microplastics
| for instance), but there are a bunch of areas where massive
| progress has been made in the last 50 years.
| mensetmanusman wrote:
| PFAS were mass manufactured during ww2 for missile and aero-
| o-rings, so she survived that too.
|
| Public health says biggest issue today is overconsumption,
| e.g. almost 50% obesity rates. For environmental concerns
| that we have control over, PM2.5 is my top (asthma, etc.)
| rchaud wrote:
| In just the past 5 years, men and women both younger (and much
| older) than you have travelled by foot across multiple nations'
| borders, looking for one that would take them in. Yes, you may
| die in the events of the future, but don't underestimate your
| survival instinct.
| mrfusion wrote:
| I've got an easy way to solve those issues for you: throw out
| your TV.
| rnd0 wrote:
| Don't most people get their news over their phone or tablet
| these days? Throwing those out would probably have a
| professional cost.
|
| I mean, you're not wrong, the best thing one can do for their
| mental health is avoid social media and current events. But
| it may not always be completely practical.
| myfavoritedog wrote:
| Stop watching cable news and listening to the prognostications
| of celebrities who got where they are through their looks or
| ability to act.
|
| The biggest problem we have today is that kids have no context
| that tells them how great they have it, so they're like putty
| in the hands of those who would use them to gain political
| power. Like some kind of emotional vampire, those vested
| political interests gain power from your fear and your
| willingness to be mobilized by it.
|
| Most of us who have a few decades on you would gladly take
| another 70 years of youthful existence to experience life and
| see where this world goes next.
| spoonjim wrote:
| Consume less media. Your chances of making it to 70 if you
| watch out for cars and take basic care of your health are
| extremely high.
| pathseeker wrote:
| >Between the mass pollution tainting our world, impending
| global warming and increased civil unrest, I figure the odds
| that my animal reaches 70 are not very high.
|
| You are living in approximately the safest time ever. The
| Internet has just made civil unrest visible when it would just
| be page 3 in a newspaper before that you wouldn't care about.
|
| People living in the 80s in the US were in a war-zone by
| today's standard. Lead was in the paint and the gas not long
| before that.
| Aeolun wrote:
| > You are living in approximately the safest time ever.
|
| Aside from the steadily growing number of natural disasters
| happening every year.
| sangnoir wrote:
| Are the numbers growing in absolute terms, or is the
| _reported_ disasters that are growing? Before satellites,
| 24-hour news, the internet and social-media + camera
| phones, a _lot_ of natural disasters went unreported. Now
| you will find clips of a disaster with two dozen different
| viewpoints, before, during and after, all in high
| resolution[1]. So what decades ago would have been a short,
| nondescript page-3 article about tragedy at an exotic place
| halfway around the world, is now gripping TV (with very
| high ratings) in the present day.
|
| 1. Checkout Forensic Architecture's reconstructed timeline
| of the Beirut explosion. https://forensic-
| architecture.org/investigation/beirut-port-...
| WarOnPrivacy wrote:
| I think genetics is a better indicator.
|
| In my line, male smokers/heavy drinkers die 20+ years earlier.
| My dad and brother died in poor health at 58 and 59
| respectively. The men who didn't serially abuse themselves
| lived into their 70s to late 80s - generally on their own.
| rnd0 wrote:
| Between the news, being told by my parents that the Soviets
| could bomb us at any time and being poor I thought that I
| wouldn't live past 30, and now in my fifties (with multiple
| heart and lung issues) I wish I had made better choices;
| especially about smoking (don't) and diet.
|
| My advice would be to nourish and exercise your animal with the
| assumption that you'll reach 80.
| chadcmulligan wrote:
| I'm in my 50's when I was your age we were all going to destroy
| each other with a nuclear war. Relax, it probably won't happen,
| all these problems get sorted out, (until they don't, then it
| doesn't matter).
| retsibsi wrote:
| > all these problems get sorted out, (until they don't, then
| it doesn't matter)
|
| Problems can have very bad consequences without literally
| killing us all.
| The_rationalist wrote:
| I said that in another thread already but 1mg selegiline daily is
| worth a try, it shows spectacular results in rodents and at worst
| don't harm humans while restoring dopamine levels.
| nocman wrote:
| Oh, I was close (guessed the animal), but I was kind of expecting
| an article about being tired of learning new Javascript
| frameworks (not making that up, I _honestly_ was expecting that).
|
| :-D
| marcell wrote:
| I'm 35 and I don't feel any of the ravages of age that some
| people describe. I do exercise and eat reasonably well, but I
| don't think it's anything out of the ordinary. I have a desk job
| (programming). Am I unusually lucky? or just part of a silent
| majority that has nothing to complain about? Is doom just around
| the corner?
| CRConrad wrote:
| > I'm 35 and I don't feel any of the ravages of age that some
| people describe.
|
| That's because 35 is fucking young. Get back to us in twenty
| years, or forty.
| Gibbon1 wrote:
| Was mentioning the other day my GF that as I get closer to 60
| my doctor has gone from 'whatever he's fine' to 'cautious
| probing'
| wraptile wrote:
| I generally think it's just vocal minority. I might be
| subjected to survivors bias (I travel around SEA) but most
| programmers I meet, while older than me, tend to be quite
| healthy and happy!
|
| I'm getting closer to the magic 30s and I'm honestly quite
| optimistic. Had some lower back issues (because of sitting too
| much) that I took care off with a bit of exercise and I find
| experimenting with diets fun and effective. Surely it can't all
| go down-hill in the next 20 years?
|
| There's just so many interesting things to do these days; if
| for some reason I'm unable to climb mountains anymore I can
| easily migrate to a different hobbie - there's no reason to
| attach yourself so much to a single activity. Maybe it's a
| perception issue? Change isn't all that bad.
| rvba wrote:
| Programmers are one of the best paid groups + they can switvh
| jobs very easy.
|
| This probably means good job (and life?) satisfaction.
|
| There are alsp those who crunch for months doing computer
| games, but supposedly they do what they love.
| DocTomoe wrote:
| You are still comparatively young. Give it a few more years.
| another_bear wrote:
| Well I am 40 this year and in the best shape of my life. I
| lost some flexibility in my lower regions but that's because
| I don't do taekwondo anymore, but instead switched to
| competitive running, cycling, and triathlon. 30 year old me
| would have wrecked 20 year old me, when I was in the Army,
| and 40 year old me can out-run, out-sprint, and out-lift 30
| year old me handily.
|
| What's my secret? Staying positive, staying disciplined, and
| HORMONE REPLACEMENT THERAPY!
|
| Men and women need to get on this train. You don't have to
| age ungracefully. Steroids are for everyone to enjoy - not
| just body builders.
| bagacrap wrote:
| you're competing in endurance sports while on HRT. hmmmm
| 40four wrote:
| Wow. This is fantastic writing. I'm not a big reader, and I was
| unaware of Robin Hobb.
|
| This definitely makes me want to read more of her stuff though.
| Kudos!
| djohnston wrote:
| I'm 29 and my lower back already has arthritis and stenosis. I
| don't expect to make it to 65.
| pomian wrote:
| Patience Paduan. It gets better. All those pains, blend into
| the "body". You learn how to move or something, as you get
| older. In other words, don't, despair.
| djohnston wrote:
| I appreciate this. Needed to read it today. Thanks :D
| rubicon33 wrote:
| 70? My animal is only 33 and is very tired. Writing this as it
| lays in bed, 3 in the afternoon, because even a standard chair
| sounds more exhausting to it.
|
| It seems to have no motivation or energy to do much besides lay
| here.
|
| If I force it, it will get stuff done but at a huge cost. It will
| yearn the entire time to just lay back down.
|
| It's interest in things seems to be fading quickly. What desire
| it used to have to work hard and succeed, has slipped away. It
| seems these days it has only enough energy to lay in bed and
| scroll through the internet. Not sure what is wrong with my
| animal, but this is no way for it to live.
|
| I was hard on the animal in its early 20s, but no harder than the
| average animal. The past 7 years or so have actually been pretty
| calm, good food, semi regular exercise, stable job, etc.
|
| It's scary to imagine how the animal would feel at 70 if this is
| how it feels at 33. Maybe the pandemic was a straw to its back,
| and the isolation has worn it down more than anything else
| possibly could.
| Swizec wrote:
| > My animal is only 33 and is very tired
|
| In life satisfaction surveys, your 30's are the most miserable
| stressful part of life. Highest amount of responsibilities,
| lowest amount of consistent reward, and it keeps getting worse
| until your 40's
|
| Apparently it gets better again in your late 40's and early
| 50's. By 60 you're as happy as you were at 20.
|
| https://www.inc.com/jeff-haden/scientists-just-discovered-mi...
|
| (am 33 and also just ... tired)
| [deleted]
| yamrzou wrote:
| Thanks, that's a bit relieving.
| ChrisMarshallNY wrote:
| I'm 59, and pretty darn happy.
|
| I get aches and pains from _everything_ , though. My back
| is still aching from weeding a week and a half ago.
| 01100011 wrote:
| Really? In my 30s I felt on top of the world. Enough wisdom
| to put my knowledge to good use and a fit body that only had
| the occasional ache. Everything went downhill around 42
| though. Eyesight, hearing, processing speed, memory, sleep
| apnea, weight gain, hair loss, ED... I have to be on some
| combination of marijuana to sleep and modafinil to wake up.
| Exercise helps but the gains fade fast so it's basically a
| 10% tax on my waking hours to keep things from fading faster.
| Oh and when you're 40 something no one gives a shit. You're
| not old enough to pity, but you're old enough to be
| responsible for everything. You just have to keep slugging it
| out with reality until your mid 60s.
| ianai wrote:
| I don't think societies neglect for its citizens is easily
| tied solely to age. At least in my experience, it's a
| pretty constant lack of care for me. I've had doctors tell
| me I'm making it up when I'm in shattering, blinding pain
| more than I care to remember. Had companies treat me like
| no amount of offensive behavior to outright bullying is a
| problem if I'm the victim. This is in 20s-30s.
|
| Though I realize ageism is a thing. One of my 60+ coworkers
| has basically been told they're too old for any sort of
| advancement.
| andykx wrote:
| Exercise is probably the best thing you can do to improve
| your longevity. I don't have a source, but I don't think
| this is a controversial idea. Even long walks can help
| (though as someone who lives in the middle of nowhere, I
| can understand if this is not possible). I'm only 28, but I
| find that long walks on the treadmill (with my laptop in
| front of me, while I'm working) can really make me feel a
| lot better. I do have a general fitness routine I keep up
| with though, so that likely plays a role here.
|
| One thing that has helped me immeasurably is taking up a
| hobby that gets me outside and doing some manual labor. I
| love gardening and I'd suggest it to anyone. I have shed
| several inches off my waistband since starting to garden
| and I find myself spending considerably less time in front
| of the computer screen just wasting time.
| kaidon wrote:
| I used to love excercise -- but a decade of power-lifting
| at the gym and going hard from 25-36 has destroyed my
| back/shoulders/hips... everything. Have been enjoying the
| longest streak of sciatica-free pain for the last 8
| months since gyms have been locked down due to COVID.
| Still get out and walk lots, but I really wish I had been
| far more moderate with excercise when I was younger.
| olyjohn wrote:
| Getting up and going outside is a huge one for me. I
| could sit here at my desk all day working and be
| miserable... and suddenly I am excited at the prospect of
| mowing my lawn.
|
| I mean at the end of the work day, I shut my computer...
| and that's it. After my lawn is mowed, I can look out and
| enjoy how it looks. Hell, I can work 10+ hours outside
| doing boring terrible tasks, shovel ditches, spread bark,
| weedwhacking the blackberries... but man does it feel
| great. I used to hate this stuff so much. Give me a
| paintbrush and let me go paint the shed, or build some
| crappy shelf to organize things.
| Aeolun wrote:
| Isn't this just caused by you leaving your 20's behind? At
| least for me I feel like I passed by my best years, and am
| only realizing it now.
|
| By 60 I certainly hope to have accepted that, but right now
| it's still a bit hard.
| Swizec wrote:
| I suspect the confounding variable is that late 20's/early
| 30's is when most people have kids. Happiness levels
| improve in late 50's when kids are out of the house.
|
| Kids may be "a complete joy and the best thing you've ever
| done", but they're also a huge financial burden, source of
| stress, and limiter on doing what _you_ wanna do.
| dimitrios1 wrote:
| This is certainly _a take_.
|
| My children, one of the greatest sources of pure,
| unadulterated, innocent joy, are the only reason I
| believe there is still good in the world and thankful
| that this floating rock continues to revolve around the
| sun so I get to enjoy them. The stress of the children
| and the hard work is so minuscule in comparison.
| Swizec wrote:
| Got a better explanation?
|
| I think it's possible for both to be true. That kids give
| you unadulterated joy and also make you objectively worse
| off.
| [deleted]
| snikeris wrote:
| All of your ancestors raised children. We are machines,
| designed by nature to procreate.
|
| The notion that one would be objectively better off by
| avoiding the very process that brought themself into
| being...seems unlikely to me.
|
| Unless, we're narrowly using the term "objectively better
| off" to mean what society seems to value: money, power,
| pleasure, etc. These things aren't necessarily good for
| the organism in the way that having children is.
| thatcat wrote:
| Sure, your mortgage is paid off and you're probably in a
| management or other upper level position with less job
| insecurity.
| bitexploder wrote:
| Generally, what I have seen, people report greater
| overall satisfaction with their lives if they have kids.
| Cant be bothered to dig up the data, but I have read
| about it a number of times over the years. However, deep
| in your 20s and 30s is when careers are taking off, kids
| are at their most demanding ages, etc. it's rare to be
| fully established in your career when your kids are
| young. That means lower earnings. So, yeah, it's
| stressful. It's also rewarding. My kids are older now.
| They bring my joy and all that. My mid 20s were also
| really hard when my kids were born. I think its all
| pretty obvious. Kids are like type 2 fun more than type 1
| for most people. I appreciate them and watching them
| develop was quite an amazing process, and it brought me a
| lot of satisfaction, but it was also hard. I think a lot
| of parents take umbrage at saying their kids made them
| worse off, it really depends on what criteria you are
| using? Financial? Life satisfaction? Other? Most parents
| probably don't /feel/ worse off in a general way.
| Swizec wrote:
| Yeah it depends how you ask the question.
|
| Do you feel more fulfilled? Yes probably
|
| Do you feel more stressed and struggling? D'oh
|
| Typically we don't equate "stressed, struggling, tired,
| and constantly drowning" as more happy. At least not in
| life satisfaction surveys I imagine
| rubicon33 wrote:
| For the record, I (op) do not have kids. I am however
| married and very happy with my marriage.
| RhodoGSA wrote:
| lean on her more. Rely on her for comfort and if she
| reciprocates, it will make you feel better. You and her
| against the world, bonnie and clyde vibes got me through
| a dark time in my life.
| Yenrabbit wrote:
| Looked into this, since a lot of people would say this is
| crazy. But it turns out kids do seem to have a negative
| correlation with parental well-being. I found
| http://www.nber.org/papers/w25597 which takes a closer
| look at some of the possible reasons.
| joexner wrote:
| The article says kids make people (Europeans, anyway)
| happy except for the financial stress.
| ehnto wrote:
| In the age we live in it is entirely socially acceptable to
| be living a 20s lifestyle in your 30s and beyond. Few
| people I know are tied down to much if anything and enjoy
| travel, sport, relationships for fun and all the things
| your 20s are known for.
|
| Just much less binge drinking, which is honestly a
| blessing.
| neonological wrote:
| The causative factor for the result of the surveys is kids.
| muzani wrote:
| Really young kids especially. It's weird because having a
| baby is both one of the most fulfilling parts of life but
| also drains you massively. I suppose the fulfillment is
| part of a biological desire to reproduce.
| tidenly wrote:
| Right - I think we get a lot of in-built satisfaction and
| pleasure from being around or raising kids, specifically
| to offset just how annoying and difficult the task of
| raising them is.
| piva00 wrote:
| I definitely have this built-in feeling quite broken. I
| left the door open to perhaps consider forming a family
| at some point since my first girlfriend, over the years
| it's only got more clear that I don't enjoy kids, at all.
|
| I don't take enjoyment from being around kids, playing
| with kids or any kind of interaction with them, it makes
| me feel broken but I simply can't. Not even with my
| niece, my sisters get a lot of joy out of simply being
| around her, for me it's a massive energy drain, and it's
| been like that with every kid I had to be close to due to
| family or friends ties.
|
| I'm so tired of feeling this way, now getting into my
| early to mid-30s and having to explain to people over and
| over that I do understand the ones who want kids, the
| ones who get enjoyment out of them, but I don't, at all.
| I never have and it's only got more cemented over time.
|
| Lately I just put a facade of telling that someone's kid
| is cute, etc., as it's the social norm. If I was being
| very honest I'd just say that I don't enjoy kids, don't
| mind hanging out with people who have kids when they are
| around but I don't get any energy from having to interact
| with them.
| germinalphrase wrote:
| I'll just throw out there that I didn't care about kids,
| babies until after We had one. My brain definitely
| changed.
| piva00 wrote:
| How was that feeling? Did you simply not care or did it
| take your energy away to be around them?
|
| I've actively tried to change and engage more with kids
| for a few years, this dread never went away, it's not
| only I don't take enjoyment but it saps something out of
| me, it's quite strange as I don't feel that strongly
| against anything else considered normal in life...
| Hugie wrote:
| It changed for me with my first daughter too.
|
| Before that, crying/arguing kids (of e.g. friends) always
| gave me headaches and i never knew what to talk with them
| or how to interact.
|
| Also when my wife told me she was pregnent, all i felt
| was 'Ok, now the ... starts' - i did not enjoy the news.
|
| But in hospital, when my daughter was born and i sat in a
| chair holding here sleeping on my arms for the first time
| - it changed 180deg. I constantly had a smile on my face
| and felt warmth and the need to protect here.
|
| I also enjoy beeing around other peoples kids now and i
| am more open to "little jokes" to make them smile.
|
| So it seemed to be a biological barrier for me, which i
| needed to be taken over by my daughter to switche to
| "parent-mode".
|
| It is also quite funny to see the faces of colleagues
| (without kids) and how they react to kids-stories. It was
| the same for me before i had my own.
| germinalphrase wrote:
| I suppose it sapped energy in the way that any social
| effort does, but it was mostly apathy. I didn't have any
| warm fuzzy feelings around babies, kids, puppies.
|
| To say that I "softened" after my son came would be wrong
| as it didn't feel like I was being emotionally "hard"
| before (as would be the stereotype for men). Something
| just changed and now I see/feel joy around young children
| (even if another part of my brain is saying _god damn,
| they're a lot of work_ ).
|
| Edit: All that said - try to stand on your own two feet.
| If you want to explore negative mindsets about kids,
| consider seeing a therapist. A good friend of mine made
| great strides sorting out his own hang ups with his
| childhood/his parents and is now a happy (tired) father.
| If you just don't want kids - well, who gives a shit.
| Find a partner who doesn't want kids.
| throwit1q2e3r wrote:
| I'm not expected to be friendly and fun around adults I
| don't know -- so why is it that I'm expected to be
| friendly and fun around kids? They're still strangers. I
| dread spending time with kids I barely know in the same
| way I dread spending time with adults I barely know. I
| have friends with kids, but spending time with those kids
| is like spending time with those friends' parents. Yes,
| they're related to my friends, but they're still
| strangers to me.
|
| Then I had a kid... and nothing changed about other kids.
| I still don't know them and I still feel awkward around
| them. But I do know my kid. He likes spending time with
| me and I like spending time with him, even though it can
| be boring/tiring sometimes.
| salawat wrote:
| It changes once you find or have something worth passing
| on. I don't have any kids or much materially, but I love
| to teach any of the skills or interests that I've picked
| up to any kid I get blessed with time with who shows even
| a mild interest.
|
| Children, after about 3, are so much simpler to be around
| than adults. Though it can be draining at times if you
| have too many youngsters around, but your mind is chewing
| on an adult problem. What really gets the chemistry going
| is when you run into one where you see them running into
| the same problems you did growing up, or who has similar
| problems. The matching communication style but different
| origins make the entire experience somehow
| reinvigorating. Like a karmic balloon for your heart by
| helping someone avoid exactly retracing the life lessons
| you learned the hard way, and sometimes, they teach you a
| nugget of wisdom you'll kick yourself for not having
| caught..
|
| Even if they aren't mine biologically, being a good
| (kind, wise, intelligent, enpathetic, independent
| responsible, creative, critical thinking, contributing
| person) is learned behavior, that the teaching is not
| straightforward for, but watching the lightbulb come on
| is one of the few things keeping me getting out of bed
| these days.
| vagrantJin wrote:
| I like the way you out this, it resonates with my own
| beliefs and thoughts but I could never put it in those
| words.
|
| Sort of like seeing your younger self in some kid and
| your advice being the cheat code.
|
| Hao! Hao.
| olyjohn wrote:
| You're not broken. People keep asking me why my
| girlfriend and I don't have kids... I don't understand
| that question to be honest. They all act like I should
| have some desire to raise a kid. I ask them, why they
| don't learn to weld or do woodworking (usually I ask them
| something they have never considered)? Sometimes there
| are just things that people do that I don't want to.
| There's not actually a reason for me to not have kids. I
| have nothing against it, I just don't ever sit here
| during the day and think "boy, my life would sure be
| better with a baby." If you do, that's fine, I'm not
| trying to rag on anybody. But just fuckin' leave me alone
| about it.
|
| People should never have kids 'just because'. If you want
| to raise a family, you should do it deliberately and have
| a reason why you WANT to have kids. Otherwise you end up
| being a resentful asshole and treat your kids like
| garbage. I know it's the best thing in the world for a
| lot of people... but for a lot of people, let's be
| honest, it's not. Not wanting kids doesn't make you an
| asshole, it makes you human with different goals and
| desires from other people.
| neonological wrote:
| Interesting statistic you should note. When people are
| asked whether they are happier with or without children
| most people pick happier. There is a positive correlation
| between picking happier and how wealthy someone is.
|
| Interestingly, when asking people how happy they are on a
| scale of 1 to 10 without bringing children into the
| picture what you see is that people without children are
| always happier.
|
| What I'm thinking is this. People are generally unhappier
| with children but certain things in the brain block most
| people from realizing it. How effective this block is
| depends on how unhappy you actually are. A person in
| poverty will be more self aware of the unhappiness
| brought on by their two screaming kids then the rich
| person. Not all people have this thing in the brain.
|
| I suspect you rate high on psychopathy so you're able to
| see truth where other people's views are clouded and
| deluded by an endorphin rush. Like I mentioned you should
| also ask yourself how rich you are, but I think this is
| irrelevant to you given how you mentioned you derive zero
| energy from being with kids.
| vmception wrote:
| I was thinking that, as I was wondering what these people
| are doing differently and wonder if that different thing
| was actually conventional rites of passage.
| Chris2048 wrote:
| I was pretty unhappy as a teenager. Not as much formal
| responsibility (though arguably the responsibilities wrt
| study etc have more serious consequences), but more autonomy
| at least.
| logicslave wrote:
| Lately this has been on my mind. I do everything, diet,
| exercise, social interaction, etc. But I am still just tired
| sometimes, nothing seems to kick. Maybe my mind is telling me
| that this way of life is down trodden? Find a new path? Working
| alot has no value, and maybe I am missing out. Or I am just
| tired, and there is no where to go
| [deleted]
| breakfastduck wrote:
| The pace of life is accelerating year by year, I swear.
|
| If not the pace then at least the stress level.
| logicslave wrote:
| But the clock on life is ticking. I keep telling myself,
| dont stay still for too long. Keep moving.
| edoceo wrote:
| Future Shock
| randomopining wrote:
| Yeah that's it.
|
| You know when you're doing something you really like all day,
| you're tired and fall right asleep and get great rest. That's
| when you know you're doing it right.
| savanaly wrote:
| Do those times you just feel tired for no reason happen to
| correlate with being after the times you ate carbs? I'm not
| suggesting that's definitely the issue, but people underrate
| simple physical explanations for stuff like this. Sometimes
| you have some deep seated insecurities and sometimes your
| body just isn't functioning but your brain isn't cognizant of
| it and can't realize that's the issue.
| mrfusion wrote:
| I notice this a lot. But what can you do? I don't want to
| go full keto.
| logicslave wrote:
| Funny you mention this, lately I have had a hunch that
| carbs could be something to eliminate from my diet. I
| havent been able to do it 100%, but I have kind of a
| checklist of things in my mind of ways and habits to
| change. Eating carbs is on there. I may give it a closer
| look
| mensetmanusman wrote:
| Mid 30s, When I started going to ~one meal a day
| (dinner), my sleep was better and I didn't have the
| afternoon digestive tiredness.
|
| I only have coffee for breakfast (black, dairy doesn't
| feel great to me first thing), keep hydrated, if I eat a
| huge dinner (large salad,carbs,protein,fruit) it's
| amazing how it lasts 24 hrs.
|
| I do not go to the gym though (not sure if my eating
| habits would be compatible with being a gym goer, I do
| walk a few miles a day though).
| AnimalMuppet wrote:
| I think Covid made life a lot less interesting. Or, put a bit
| differently, I think that we quit doing a bunch of the things
| that made life interesting. And I think _that_ is mentally
| wearing.
|
| I don't know if, in your case, that's the whole answer. You
| might find it worth while to seek medical advice...
| natchy wrote:
| Related, I was just talking about why middle/high school
| years seem to last longer than now. The variety of the time
| spent was probably a factor (Playing in the band one day,
| focusing on decathlon another). Life is monotonous these
| days.
| koonsolo wrote:
| Take a 1 hour walk outside every day.
|
| Your 'wasted' hour will be given back tenfold.
| hedberg10 wrote:
| *when the sun is the highest in the sky. Shirt off, if you
| dare. Start slow (don't be stupid and burn yourself).
|
| The energy is incredible. I walked about 20 miles this
| morning with the sun coming up before biking 6 miles to work
| and then back in the evening. And I know I'll have lots of
| energy to spare tonight.
|
| Yes we are warm blooded animals but still very dependent on
| the sun and activity.
| Liskni_si wrote:
| 20 miles is just 6 miles less than a marathon, and would
| take over 6 hours at the normal pace of 5 km/h. Is that
| really what you manage to do in the morning before work?
| :-O
| hedberg10 wrote:
| Thank you for catching me. No, that is not what I walked
| :)
| Liskni_si wrote:
| So, um, was that a typo? Am I parsing your sentence
| wrong? Been waiting for an edit but it doesn't seem one
| is coming. :-)
| josephjrobison wrote:
| 20 minutes
| hodgesrm wrote:
| The key is to keep moving forward. Marion Countess Donhoff had
| a great line about aging in an interview when she was in her
| 80s: "every day a little more self-discipline."
|
| Donhoff was an East Prussian who became an influential
| journalist and later newspaper publisher in W. Germany after
| the war. In her family, the attitude to life was basically shut
| up, deal with it, and keep going. She was an aristocrat in the
| best sense of the word.
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marion_D%C3%B6nhoff
|
| Edit: typo
| sebmellen wrote:
| Do you have a source for that quote? I would love to know!
| Thank you.
| hodgesrm wrote:
| I'm sad to say I don't. It was in a German-language
| interview and really stuck in my head. "Jeden Tag ein
| bisschen mehr Selbstdisziplin."
|
| She wrote a memoir about her upbringing in East Prussia
| called "Kindheit in Ostpreussen." The English translation
| is entitled "Before the Storm: Memories of My Youth in Old
| Prussia." [1] It's a somewhat wandering story but the
| account of growing up in a Prussian aristocratic family on
| a huge estate is quite marvelous. That world--for better or
| worse--has perished almost without a trace.
|
| [1]
| https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/138357.Before_The_Storm
| nradov wrote:
| If you keep forcing it every day then eventually it gets
| easier. Listen to the audio book "Can't Hurt Me" by David
| Goggins. It will change your perspective on what your animal
| can take.
|
| https://davidgoggins.com/book/
| hedberg10 wrote:
| Is the article not the exact opposite?
| eyelidlessness wrote:
| > If you keep forcing it every day then eventually it gets
| easier.
|
| I can both validate it and warn that it may be dangerous. I
| thrived and grew by forcing myself through everything until
| burnout, and I've done it three times in my life. Developing
| a healthy sense, pattern and habit of rest is important too.
| walterlb wrote:
| David Goggins, not Higgins. I got excited that this was from
| the rally driver :)
| nradov wrote:
| Thanks, edited. Got hit by autocorrect.
| edoceo wrote:
| Anyone else notice autocorrect being more aggressive?
|
| Like switching or => of and like not => now. I've noticed
| loads of these kinds of typos afflicting my Android
| typing too. Like it's like an auto-un-correct
| otikik wrote:
| Does anyone in your family suffer from hypothyroidism? That,
| combined with depression (it's a spectrum) is what was getting
| to me. I've since changed some habits, I'm taking 1 small
| thyroid pill each morning and going to therapy once per week. I
| still feel tired and lacking in energy from time to time but I
| have improved.
| [deleted]
| uvnq wrote:
| Try avoiding distractions. I find that on days I go without the
| internet (other than for work) I become significantly less
| motivated and work is way harder to start. Not sure if that's
| even your problem but if it is then I hope this helps.
| practicalpants wrote:
| Do you have money? Quit your job, go travel, go entrepreneurial
| pursuing something that moves you.
|
| Living in some San Francisco apartment, building a career at
| tech companies making 6 figures a year is, once you have some
| money, a pretty crappy wheel-spinning way to live life, by some
| opinions.
| voldacar wrote:
| If you're constantly lethargic and tired, consider seeing an
| endocrinologist and having some tests done.
| ahD5zae7 wrote:
| Apart from great comments already posted, please read about
| "long covid". I'm not sure if it's officially recognized yet
| but it's a strange illness lately and a large number of people
| suffer from it. One of most important symptoms is chronic
| fatigue. I'm fighting it since last year and one thing I can
| say is that the fatigue is different from anything I
| experienced in my 43 year life. It's crippling and even getting
| up requires effort. Caffeine in large doses helps somewhat but
| only to an extent.
|
| There's always been a "post viral fatigue syndrome" with many
| other viruses and it is a known phenomenon, maybe it's just a
| similar thing with Covid. Only it affects much more people I
| think. And most importantly you can get it after asymptomatic
| Covid, so you don't even know you had it.
| graeme wrote:
| How much do you sleep? And do you track it or just estimate?
|
| The single biggest improvement to my energy and happiness came
| from getting a sleep tracking device, and then making sure I
| slept around eight hours. (As opposed to being in bed for eight
| hours). I wake with no alarm, and have also started going to
| bed earlier since tracking this.
|
| This may not be your issue, I see your diet and weight appear
| good. Could be some mental health issue or some other physical
| issue not currently diagnosed.
|
| But, if you're sleeping less than eight hours or are not
| actually tracking so you know you're sleeping enough, it could
| be a big improvement to try doing both.
|
| I have an apple watch and autosleep if anyone is curious about
| the combo.
| ncmncm wrote:
| This might be an unwelcome suggestion, but _tell your doctor_.
| This sounds very like depression, which is quite treatable.
|
| You need to know that there are at least six different
| illnesses all called depression. The only way known to figure
| out which you have is to try each treatment, in turn, to see
| which helps. Usually they start with one with few side effects,
| or that works fastest. Some people have more than one variety,
| or one plus anxiety, or attention disorder, or all three.
| (These might all be caused by industrial chemicals we are all
| exposed to nowadays, stuff our ancestors never encountered.)
|
| If the drugs work, but have side effects, know too that the
| side effects will tend to pass, with time.
| maxqin1 wrote:
| > good food
|
| Everyone thinks they eat good food.
|
| Food is the number one physical measurable input into our
| bodies. So it boggles my mind that nutrition isn't the most
| studied subject, alongside maybe the study of living a
| fulfilling life.
|
| Changing my eating habits has changed my life for the better.
| It took kidney stones (not recommended) to get me here. But
| even my most obese and unhealthy friends like to proudly tell
| me the "healthy" things their eating, and I don't have the
| heart or patience to try to tell them anymore.
|
| But if you find what works for your body, food becomes more of
| a tool for living your best life, and something you'll defend
| to protect yourself and to continue living that good life,
| which makes the right choices so much easier.
|
| Now maybe that's not what you need to hear, but I know it's
| definitely true for some other people that are going to see
| this.
| arvinsim wrote:
| Dealing with food would be so much easier if it wasn't one of
| our main sources of pleasure and relief.
|
| Alas, it is not so. That's why adopting proper diet and
| nutrition is complicated.
| athenot wrote:
| I've adopted the opposite strategy: instead of constantly
| fighting against the pleasure in food, I have cultivated
| it. Expanded the horizons of my palate, chased amazing
| gustative experiences.
|
| The result being that the immense majority of the food
| available to me is now "ok but not fantastic". I still take
| pride in being able to enjoy (almost) any food no matter
| how humble. But none bring me joy the way a rare fine
| dining experience will. And since I'm in no position to
| indulge on those on a regular basis, I'm never using food
| as a source of comfort and satisfaction.
|
| TL;DR: appreciate and cultivate rarity (but try not being a
| snob about it)
| maxqin1 wrote:
| > sources of pleasure and relief
|
| So it can be. And I have food addicts in my family so I'm
| familiar with it. Have you tried cannabis?
| enw wrote:
| What kind of good food do you eat?
| maxqin1 wrote:
| The kind I've iterated on for years to maximize my body.
|
| I wish I had a good answer, but it's similar to exercise.
| The best food for you is the one that works for you.
|
| I also highly recommend no-food (don't try to twist this).
| Fasting for various periods is undeniably beneficial for
| men and women past menopause (younger women should
| carefully research preventing doing any harm).
|
| Rather than tell you exactly what I eat, I'll tell you that
| I aim to minimize blood sugar, most of the time(exercise,
| and simply trying to live a little can change this). And
| that I also give myself permission to eat outside my
| boundaries occasionally, though doing so often keeps me on
| track in the future because of the obvious negative
| outcomes (which are a lot easier to recognize when you have
| absolute control over what your ingesting).
|
| The science of nutrition is complex, but I'm sure a lot of
| programmers would be intrigued by chemistry and equations
| involved in metabolism. It also changes the way you think
| about eating. I was fortunate enough to land myself in a
| tough nutrition class in college, which can look more like
| organic chemistry.
|
| Edit: to satisfy the downvoters: I'm mostly keto, always
| low carb unless it's some occasion where I'd otherwise
| regret not participating. Organic, and well-treated animals
| are also a staple (and yes, a luxury not available to all).
|
| There are really so many little things that if you or your
| partner aren't significantly interested in learning about
| it as a hobby then you're undoubtedly going to miss a lot.
|
| Note: to anyone asking what exactly I eat, why? You don't
| even know anything about me. What if I'm an athlete? Then
| what I eat would make a sedentary person obese. Not to
| mention, VARIETY IS ESSENTIAL. Ideally I would eat every
| single good thing that's available to maximize my exposure
| to good things.
|
| Good luck to you!
| nradov wrote:
| You shouldn't be down voted. This is generally good
| advice. Human nutrition is still poorly understood and
| there is huge variation between individuals. The best
| that most of us can do is run our own n=1 experiments and
| determine empirically what seems to give the best
| results.
| wolverine876 wrote:
| How do you empirically measure results for your n=1
| experiment, where you are experimenter, subject, and
| outcome?
|
| If I see comments providing diet advice with words like
| "undeniably", I lean toward downvoting them.
| nradov wrote:
| Obviously there's no way to conduct a high quality
| controlled experiment and eliminate bias. But you can
| play around with adding or removing certain foods from
| your diet. Look for correlations with how you
| subjectively feel, and objectively perform. You might
| find some effects that are large enough to be significant
| even with n=1. Or not.
| inimino wrote:
| How do you _not_?
|
| You're living this life anyway, might as well try to
| learn from and compare your various diets.
|
| Unless you eat the same meal every day for your whole
| life, I don't see how you could not learn something from
| it.
| maxqin1 wrote:
| It's like some HNers never learning the simple art of
| deduction.
| jiofih wrote:
| Cool. So what kinds of good food do you usually eat?
| TedDoesntTalk wrote:
| Nuts, seeds, low-carb vegetables, fiber supplement,
| occasional fruits especially berries (exception is a
| avocado every day). No red meat. Fish or chicken or
| turkey 2-3 times per week. Occasional eggs. Fish should
| be wild caught and either salmon or small like sardines,
| herring, mackerel , etc. Probiotic and prebiotic foods.
| Limited dairy and only non-cow daily unless it's A2.
|
| Coffee and green teA but no caffeine after 2 PM. Organic
| as much as possible.
| maxqin1 wrote:
| Spot on, thanks.
| theonething wrote:
| Then why didn't you just say so.
| maxqin1 wrote:
| GIYF.
|
| Or in other words, "teach a man to fish..."
| Snoozus wrote:
| > Food is the number one physical measurable input into our
| bodies.
|
| This is the single reason why everyone focusses on food.
|
| It is not the biggest lever you have on your health /
| wellbeing. It is the easiest variable to measure and to play
| with.
|
| From the research it is quite clear that apart from gross
| errors what you eat does not really matter to any outcome.
| Quantity matters, but eating more can be compensated by
| excercising more.
|
| I think we have it completely backwards, the killers are:
| depression, burn-out and so on.
|
| Their symptoms are : no energy to change the situation,
| loneliness, no motivation to move, eating too much/too many
| calories ...
|
| This in the end leads to all kinds of physical diseases.
|
| Maybe starting with what we eat is a good first step to
| regain control, but it is certainly not the most important
| part of the puzzle.
| lotsofpulp wrote:
| > Quantity matters, but eating more can be compensated by
| excercising more.
|
| Eating a little bit more can be. Eating an extra 1k kcal
| per day cannot be, especially as you get older. I'm in my
| 30s and relatively fit, and I can only burn 14 kcal per
| minute for 45 minutes or so. Maybe I can do an hour if I
| pushed it, but even Olympic level athletes top out at 20
| kcal per minute.
| ajmurmann wrote:
| How did you get the 14kcal number? Are there devices that
| measure this?
| lotsofpulp wrote:
| I assume exercise machines where you can not cheat by
| leaning on something or pausing are somewhat accurate,
| such as stationary bikes or elliptical or rowing
| machines. So my estimate is from experience with those
| machines over the last 15 years, and all 3 end up
| averaging me at around the same 14 kcal/minute. But I'm
| no athlete, although I do have a pretty low body fat
| percentage.
|
| Also, I misremembered the Olympic calorie amount,
| according to this NYTimes article, Olympic cross country
| skiers can do 30kcal per minute:
|
| https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/23/sports/olympics/cross-
| cou...
|
| > A typical elite cross-country skier will burn about 30
| calories a minute during training -- by comparison, a
| 155-pound person on an elliptical machine burns about 11
| calories a minute.
| serjester wrote:
| As someone that loves doing research on this, you couldn't
| be further from the truth. I agree the first priority is
| sorting out your mental health, but after that a quality
| diet has massive ramifications on your life.
|
| >>> Quantity matters, but eating more can be compensated by
| excercising more.
|
| A single donut can have as many calories as running for an
| hour. Unless you have fantastic genetics / young it's
| incredibly difficult to out run a bad diet.
|
| Then there's the discussion of good calories vs bad
| calories. If your goal is to optimize well being, what you
| put into your body has an outsized impact on how you feel
| so it'd be crazy to not pay some attention to your diet.
| astrange wrote:
| If you have a cooperative microbiome, eating too much
| won't cause weight gain because you don't absorb it all.
| Eating too little of course is a better way to lose
| weight than exercise - that's required by thermodynamics.
| maxqin1 wrote:
| While I agree about other factors contributing, your
| missing how vital food is in the equation.
|
| All of the things you mentioned are highly dependent on
| food. For example, high amounts of sugar will undoubtedly
| lead to depression and burnout, not to mention diabetes.
|
| > starting with what we eat is a good first step to regain
| control
|
| Yes, it is absolutely the first step. And it's one you have
| most control over. Focus on the things you can control.
| sp3000 wrote:
| The food we eat has an immense impact on how we feel, and
| certainly has an impact on mental health issues such
| depression, attention, emotional regulation, etc. Every
| single thing you eat is the substrates from which all of
| your cells are made. The old paradigm looked at food as
| just units of energy, but that is not the new paradigm.
| What we eat, how we move, our sleep quality, how we manage
| stress - these things have enormous implications on pretty
| much every single health metric you can imagine.
|
| https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/nutritional-
| psychiatry-y...
| kmonsen wrote:
| I tried the whole30 diet for fun, and it changed my body
| quite a bit. I used to snore, but it completely went away
| when I stopped eating processed food. When I started again
| the snoring came back.
| maxqin1 wrote:
| Yes, the snoring and sleep apnea is a big one.
|
| It was so sad to see, but weight loss from cancer in obese
| people does the same thing (cure sleep disorders). If only
| those people could have realized that before their bodies
| degraded into cancer.
| rubicon33 wrote:
| > Everyone thinks they eat good food.
|
| Yes, probably including you.
|
| I am very aware of things like cooked spinach v.s. non cooked
| spinach. I pay close attention to what I eat, and make an
| effort not to fall into the traps of fad diets.
|
| I eat a whole foods based, well rounded diet, that avoids
| known "gotchas" like aforementioned raw spinach. Oxalate are
| found in many of other "healthy" foods. I'm also very lean,
| but still pay close attention to the role of inflammation
| caused by insulin, and generally do my best to keep that down
| by avoiding carbs and sugar (though, not completely cut out,
| I am not keto).
|
| Trust me, food is not the panacea of health that everyone
| espouses it to be. If you were dying of cancer, even the best
| diet on earth for you, may not save you. That said, a life of
| healthy eating is definitely a good idea and there's always
| the chance that I would feel worse, or simply die of a heart
| attack, if I weren't paying attention to my diet.
|
| Diet is absolutely important to get in check, just like
| exercise. But it's all too often prescribed as _THE_ solution
| above everything else. This often comes in the form of some
| revelation someone had, visa vi some weight lost, or some
| medical situation from their prior eating.
|
| For some of us, there is no issue with weight, no medical
| problems, we cook all our own food (never eat out), eat well
| balanced whole foods, and yet still life is not magically
| solved.
| kjsthree wrote:
| Wait, what's this about raw spinach?
| maxerickson wrote:
| Massive amounts of oxalates have some problems so people
| freak out about small amounts.
| newnamenewface wrote:
| You want to steam most vegetables to make the cell walls
| break down (easier to digest and utilize nutrients).
| Snoozus wrote:
| Steaming is not enough, you need to cook in water and
| remove the water (at least for spinach and kale).
| algorias wrote:
| Spinach famously contains iron, but less famously also
| contains a substance that inhibits iron absorption. So
| IIRC, it actually _lowers_ your iron, unless you blanch
| it and throw away the water.
| ncmncm wrote:
| Spinach famously was _misreported_ to have iron. Somebody
| slipped a decimal point, and everybody after copied the
| mistake.
|
| Me, I don't eat spinach anymore. Never liked it to begin
| with. I have eaten enough of it already to last me to the
| end.
| hyko wrote:
| Spinach famously was _misreported_ to be _misreported_ to
| have iron due to the decimal point slip: https://journals
| .sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/03063127145356...
|
| _Nothing indicates that the decimal point error ever was
| made, but the account about it will most likely live a
| long and colorful life, just like its parent myth_
| rzzzt wrote:
| Spinach is a fictional plant, it was described by Linne
| as sort of a joke but then everyone just went with it.
|
| But seriously, you described three layers of
| misconceptions in this comment thread, how is anyone
| supposed to know "the real truth" about anything food
| related, if spinach alone is such a hard subject?
| astrange wrote:
| > Spinach is a fictional plant, it was described by Linne
| as sort of a joke but then everyone just went with it.
|
| Actually true for most vegetables we eat, they're all the
| same plant (Brassica oleracea).
| maxqin1 wrote:
| Lol, and that's why so many Americans are fat. Thanks
| [deleted]
| ncmncm wrote:
| I am corrected.
|
| Apparently there is no documentary evidence why an 1870
| measure of spinach's iron content was exaggerated. The
| paper cited does not explore whether it ever was
| exaggerated, or what its actual iron content then or now
| might be.
|
| I read various reports indicating that modern vegetables
| have much less of various nutrients than older, slower-
| growing or smaller-yielding varieties, and have no idea
| how I might evaluate such claims. Maybe spinach harvested
| in 1870 had more iron than highly-fertilized 1930
| varieties, never mind 2021 varieties no one, to my
| knowledge, has bothered to measure. Or maybe not.
| rubicon33 wrote:
| Raw spinach, some nuts like cashews, and other raw health
| foods can be high in oxalic acid. This is something of an
| anti-nutrient, which at best tends to reduce absorption
| of nutrients and at worst can build up in the kidneys and
| cause kidney stones.
|
| As with all diet data though, YMMV. Some people eat loads
| of yaw spinach and never develop kidney stones.
|
| Certainly if you have a familiar history of them, you
| should avoid raw spinach. Cooking it reduces the
| oxalates.
| olyjohn wrote:
| So... another case of "too much of a good thing?" I feel
| like the point comes up again and again... eat a variety
| of foods... everything in moderation? No single food is a
| cure-all or magically going to fix your problems. I'm
| sure if you eat too much of damn near anything, there
| will be some negative effects.
| maxqin1 wrote:
| > Yes, probably including you.
|
| Yes, I actually illustrate that in a sibling comment.
|
| My point is that it's a practice.
|
| And yes, your weakest link may not be food related. My
| suggestion is that, given that the body receives input from
| nothing comparable other than maybe the air you breathe, as
| a whole we don't pay enough attention to what we eat. In
| other words, Occam's razor points to food in most
| scenarios.
|
| > Trust me, food is not the panacea of health that everyone
| espouses it to be
|
| If " _everyone_ " says something, doesn't that kind of make
| it true?
|
| > too often prescribed as THE solution above everything
| else
|
| No doctor every prescribed food as my solution. The spinach
| thing was more like a comment in passing. Maybe on a single
| page "take home" paper after surgery. I have been
| prescribed surgery twice, though. And both could have been
| prevented with food.
|
| PS- suffer from recuring sinus infections? Quit mixing
| dairy and sugar (individually they're fine). And yes, that
| means no ice cream before bed. But if you do not want to
| quit, there's a survey for that!
| TedDoesntTalk wrote:
| > that avoids known "gotchas" like aforementioned raw
| spinach
|
| Serious question: what is wrong with raw spinach because I
| eat it all the time
| maxqin1 wrote:
| Oxalic acid [1]. Could cause kidney stones especially if
| combined with other factors that may predispose you to
| having them. Simply cooking the spinach can remove most
| of it.
|
| Personally, I ate an amount of spinach that made me an
| outlier(think the maximum you could fit on a foot long
| subway sandwich often daily for a couple years, and that
| was also combined with other poor choices like gas
| station big gulp sodas.
|
| [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxalic_acid
| docmars wrote:
| Out of curiosity, what did you change after you experienced
| kidney stones? What was easy about it? What was difficult?
| maxqin1 wrote:
| #1 change: actually paying attention to what your putting
| inside you.
|
| Kidney stones were a long time ago now, I've been
| continuously evolving since, and I've been super lucky to
| have a lot of help with both the cooking and research along
| the way.
|
| One thing I learned specifically from that incident was
| that:
|
| Raw spinach != Cooked spinach.
|
| Specifically, the former has a specific chemical that will
| cause kidney stones. This is problematic for someone on the
| subway diet who substitutes spinach for the lettuce,
| because, you know, spinach is healthier than lettuce...
| which is kind of true, until it isn't.
|
| Edit: what was easy? Knowing the impact that little daily
| decisions can have (a few day stay in the hospital). Also,
| cutting out the soda was easy after experiencing that level
| of pain (the kind where things become a blur, you
| accidentally rip out IVs, sister passes out just from
| watching, etc).
|
| Also, I've changed my diet regularly as information changes
| for the past ten years. Every single time I thought I was
| "being the healthiest I can be." That said, I'm not
| suggesting a specific solution. What I'm suggesting is
| becoming familiar with the practice of iterating on your
| eating habits to maximize your life (in more ways than
| simply extension).
| mattmanser wrote:
| Ugh, so you didn't learn anything apart from having yet
| another 'revelation'.
|
| And that revelation is 'avoid raw spinach, but it's too
| late for me'.
|
| You had Kidney stones. That does not make you a health
| Messiah, quite the opposite really.
| maxqin1 wrote:
| > That does not make you a health Messiah, quite the
| opposite really
|
| Nice to see how you interpreted things, but that's all it
| is.
|
| My point was alluding to the continuous practice.
|
| And the proof is what I see in my and my partner's
| fitness compared to that of our peers. But don't take it
| from some random on the internet.
|
| Lastly, yes it's a lot of hard work, and yes that's why
| you're avoiding it. Good luck!
| cinntaile wrote:
| There is something ironic about claiming to eat healthy
| and regularly changing your diet due to new information.
| I don't mean this in an offensive way, it's not your
| fault dietary advice keeps changing. It just aptly
| reflects how little we know about food and the effect it
| has on the body.
| maxqin1 wrote:
| Nothing ironic at all.
|
| That's how I treat anything that is important to me.
|
| I like to ask questions. And the world is always
| changing. To think continuous change is "ironic" sounds
| problematic to me. I mean, that's why they little fat kid
| inside the large obese woman thinks it's still alright to
| eat cake for breakfast.
|
| Edit: there is such a thing as eating right for your age!
| danparsonson wrote:
| I think the GP was referring to the irony of 'eating
| healthy' only to later find out that what was previously
| considered healthy is now considered unhealthy. Spinach a
| nice example of that - I've been eating it raw for ages
| thinking I was being healthy, had no idea about the
| potential problems.
| cinntaile wrote:
| Yes this is what I meant to say, thanks for the
| clarification.
| logicslave wrote:
| What did you change?
| TylerE wrote:
| I know others have thrown out other things, but: Have you been
| tested for sleep apnea?
|
| What you describe sounds much like how I used to feel.
| rubicon33 wrote:
| For a while, I thought it might be sleep related too. Even
| though I've always gotten plenty of sleep (tracked), I
| wondered if the quality of that sleep was no good.
|
| So I had a formal sleep study done (where you bring home the
| thing and wear it).
|
| They found nothing wrong.
| bun_at_work wrote:
| You've probably heard it before, but exercise will help. It
| does so much good for mental and physical health, it's
| basically mandatory.
|
| After that, removing dopamine feedback loops (browsing the
| internet, social media, etc.) will help tremendously with
| motivation.
|
| After reading a number of books on psychology and behavior it
| has become clear that the adaptability of humans works for and
| against us. If you browse the internet you adapt to that type
| of mental effort, where fast, shallow patterns of thought and
| action are rewarded. Alternatively, reading books, exercising,
| working on hobby projects, etc, all train you to subdue the
| desire for immediate gratification, in favor of future
| gratification, which is more healthy and rewarding.
| fukmbas wrote:
| I blame MBA types. 10-15 years ago IT was fun, now that MBA
| leeches got word, they are infiltrating our industry and
| bloating it with middlemen and bogus ideologies like scrum and
| product. Get fucked
| DougN7 wrote:
| This actually sounds quite a bit like depression. Some
| inexpensive meds can make a huge difference. I know from
| experience.
| xivzgrev wrote:
| Agree, but in my experience medicine simply kept me from
| going too low. Some kind of therapy may also be needed, and a
| focus / prioritization on things that make you happy.
| contradistinct wrote:
| Yes, meds don't solve the underlying issue. There is no
| happy pill. They just give you the boost you need to fix
| your life. This is shown by studies that show depression
| comes back after discontinuing meds, but not after
| discontinuing therapy.
| pmiller2 wrote:
| There's still significant value in not going too low. I
| have a sense of existential dread that makes me forever
| unable to end my own life, but that doesn't mean I haven't
| thought of it. I've been at points where I definitely did
| not want to continue living the way I was, but I didn't
| want to die. For those who don't have that sense of
| existential dread keeping them on this planet, not going
| too low can literally be a lifesaver.
| peanutz454 wrote:
| When my partner took anti depressants they increased the need
| to sleep.
| girvo wrote:
| Mirtazapine will do that to a bit of an extreme.
| Escitalopram didn't, at least for me, in some ways it made
| it slightly more difficult to sleep. This is in my body, so
| everyone's mileage may vary. I found the massive drowsiness
| of mirtazapine so difficult to deal with that I ended up
| preferring the frustrating sexual side-effects that
| escitalopram has (and found it more effective for my
| depression anyway).
|
| Lately, the buprenorphine injection I get once a month is
| all the antidepressant I need. Still has side-effects, but
| these are ones I'm very used to at least.
| mellavora wrote:
| It is very clearly depression.
|
| I'm leery of the meds, however. They have a tendency to be
| highly addictive.
|
| Also, the underlying cause might be something else; the
| depression might be a symptom instead of the root cause.
|
| Chronic fatigue syndrome is a real thing. Inflammation, or
| perhaps aftereffects of some viral infection.
|
| Or loneliness. We are social animals, the animal is supposed
| to be part of a group. Yet we've created this society which
| worships the idea of the individual.
| rubicon33 wrote:
| I have tried prozac. Unfortunately, it made my tiredness even
| worse almost immediately. Doctor said this would go away
| after I increased dosage, but I couldn't stick with it long
| enough to see this benefit.
|
| I've considered trying again but, it's a hard pill to swallow
| when the solution takes weeks to work, and in the meantime,
| you're suffering even more.
|
| If I had to be honest, I question whether I am scientifically
| "depressed". The "tests" they give you are totally
| subjective.
|
| While, yes, I exhibit many of the symptoms of depression I
| also wonder if I'm just ill suited for modern life. My
| interests are strong, and fleeting. Life seems to reward
| people who can hold focus on boring tasks, for long periods
| of time, even decades. I was probably a better hunter than I
| am a programmer.
|
| Yet, here I am, coding for a living and browsing the internet
| in my spare time. Oof.
|
| So get out there! I hear you say. Yea, if only it were so
| easy to uproot my entire life, leave my wife, and go live
| wild in the sticks where I'd be more centered and at peace
| with my core being. That's just not feasible.
|
| The point isn't that I would be happier living in the woods,
| off the grid, in the rawness of nature ... The point is just
| that something in this modern life is missing, and more
| likely than a chemical imbalance, it is that missing element
| which drains my soul and leaves me exhausted and unmotivated.
|
| That, or it's some terrible undiagnosed medical condition.
| fogihujy wrote:
| I've struggled, and am struggling, with the same thing. The
| only thing that helps me is to keep doing... something.
|
| Also, talk to your wife about changing lifestyles if you
| haven't already. She might surprise you.
| DougN7 wrote:
| I had to try three or four before one helped, so my advice
| is not to give up too soon. Welbutrin ended up being a
| solution for me.
| BirdieNZ wrote:
| > My interests are strong, and fleeting. Life seems to
| reward people who can hold focus on boring tasks, for long
| periods of time, even decades. I was probably a better
| hunter than I am a programmer.
|
| Sounds like ADHD.
| astrange wrote:
| Programming can be good for ADHD though, since it has
| strong short feedback loops.
| valec wrote:
| i'm not sure if you are still interested in pursuing a
| pharmacological route but SSRI's are some of the least
| effective anti-depressants available today. many meta-
| reviews have pegged them as not better in a statistically
| significant way than the placebo.
|
| if you're willing to still give it a shot, see if your
| doctor is willing to prescribe tricyclic antidepressants or
| MAO-I's. mao-i's in particular are very effective but come
| with some dietary restrictions (certain cheese and
| fermented foods are off the table).
| mtalantikite wrote:
| I was in a similar state when I was about 33. Burnt myself
| out coding for startups and really got bored of
| programming. Found I was doing a whole lot of things I
| didn't really enjoy and putting off dealing with some
| internal issues (for example, a childhood trauma from
| drowning and the fear of swimming that came from that).
|
| Not that what works for me would work for you, but one day
| at about 33 I made a commitment to myself that I'd find a
| path through my body. Not sure why it was that, but it
| intuitively felt right. I had one ego melting psychedelic
| experience, started working with a swimming coach,
| dedicated myself to a yoga practice, got back to daily
| seated meditation, went to therapy, and journaled every day
| (did The Artist's Way workbook to start that habit, which I
| have mixed feelings about but journaling is
| transformative).
|
| It wasn't all at once, it started gradually, but it started
| with a commitment that I'd find a way in through my body.
| Things aren't all great all the time -- sometimes I really
| dread getting to a yoga mat to practice, or wake up not
| wanting to sit for meditation. And I definitely have
| existential lows. I just am _much_ better equipped to deal
| with things now.
|
| Your physical practice might (likely) look totally
| different than mine, but I do think there is one that will
| bring joy and transformation for everyone. Maybe it's
| martial arts, maybe it's strength training, maybe it's
| running, maybe it's dancing, maybe it's doing something
| like Wim Hof cold exposure training. Who knows, for me it
| was Yoga, but I'd really recommend everyone find that thing
| that gets them working through the layers of their body.
| Your 37 year old self will thank you.
| stavros_ wrote:
| >That, or it's some terrible undiagnosed medical condition.
|
| Sounds like ADHD to me too. At least it's eerily similar to
| my experience and I'm in the process of getting diagnosed.
|
| https://youtu.be/WFkpICWE9DM - might help.
| rubicon33 wrote:
| So, probably, yes.
|
| I have struggled my entire life with these issues. The
| post you see here isn't something that's new.
|
| Whatever is causing this is inherent to my being.
|
| I've seen doctors, and had both depression and adhd
| diagnosed. The ADHD meds were amazing. They "solved" this
| problem. I feel better, I feel happy, I feel more
| motivated, I feel more natural interest and ability to
| hold my focus. I feel less foggy and tired.
|
| But, I can't stomach being on stimulants my entire life.
| I hate that idea.
|
| So yea, the one thing that works, I'm not willing to
| take. Hard to have much sympathy for me if I'm not even
| willing to take what is being prescribed.
|
| I keep saying to myself I need to just man up, and take
| the medicine. I do it for a week, I feel great, and then
| I start to hate feeling different (even if different, is
| quite good), and I attribute it to being loaded with
| amphetamines, and how bad that must be for my body.
|
| So I stop taking them and revert to feeling shitty and
| looking for a new solution.
| balfirevic wrote:
| > and how bad that must be for my body.
|
| For what is worth, at prescription doses they are not bad
| for your body at all.
| newnormal wrote:
| That sounds exactly what I was going through for the past
| 15+ years. I had many strong interests, but everything
| seemed like more work than it was worth doing. Depression
| and anxiety accompanied the low motivation. I chalked it up
| to being in a bad mood, and tried lots of mental health
| related things to fix that, with little progress over years
| of consistent effort.
|
| Within the past two or three years, some health concerns
| started showing up - daily headaches, a near-constant
| lightheaded feeling, nausea, trouble focusing my eyes,
| stuff like that. Eventually, the near-constant nausea
| forced me to try some dietary changes.
|
| It turned out that gluten was the cause of all those more
| concerning health issues. But to my surprise, it was also
| the cause of the attention and motivation issues that had
| plagued me for most of my life. After 3 or so days off of
| gluten, my mind suddenly felt so much more clear, and since
| then, I've been much more able to pursue my interests. I
| didn't get diagnosed, but the closest disorders I could
| find are gluten-induced brain fog
| (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7454984/) and
| the beginnings of gluten ataxia
| (https://jnnp.bmj.com/content/74/9/1221).
|
| I'm not saying that you have the same thing, but it could
| definitely be a medical condition if you don't respond well
| to therapy or antidepressants. I wouldn't overlook the
| physical side of things.
| rubicon33 wrote:
| I've tried the no gluten thing, and really felt no
| difference what so ever. I really had high hopes that was
| the issue since a lot of friends also reported feeling
| much more energy and motivation.
|
| I did try going completely carb free for a week one time.
| I had no energy crashes which was great, but, I never
| really felt dramatically different mentally. While I
| wasn't crashing, I also wasn't suddenly feeling much more
| focus or "energy" (motivation, interest in work).
|
| I was just kind of, stable low energy / motivation.
| Rather than, mostly low energy / motivation with some
| occasional really deep crashes caused by carb blasts.
| dmingod666 wrote:
| Well written piece
| mrfusion wrote:
| So did Hobb inspire Harry Potter? Did Robert Jordan inspire Hobb?
| I see so many parallels sometimes.
| Ensorceled wrote:
| I would guess that Ursula Leguin's "A Wizard of Earthsea"
| inspired both.
| okareaman wrote:
| I did the best I could with my body except now that I am 63 I
| have one regret: I wish I had more sex when I was able. I mean, I
| had sex but I could have had a lot more. It's seems dumb now to
| deny this basic pleasure for "reasons"
| cm2012 wrote:
| I've had a reasonably full life so far but my favorite memories
| are all sexual ones, so this is legit.
| rchaud wrote:
| I had sex, and could have had more, but those would have been
| with partners I wasn't attracted to. Is that what you mean? Or
| did you actively pursue a lot of partners and decide, for
| whatever reason, to do it with just a few?
| okareaman wrote:
| No, I held out for another right woman after breaking up with
| the right woman. There were long periods of drought in my sex
| life.
| lupire wrote:
| Hey you missed out on some STD risk too.
| leafmeal wrote:
| It looks like you might be being downvoted, but this is super
| valid. Herpes and HPV are extremely common among those who
| are sexually active. It's virtually impossible to avoid
| either and have lots of sex with multiple partners.
|
| But obviously one can have lots of sex with a single
| monogamous partner though without any new risk of STDs.
| globular-toast wrote:
| I wonder what you really mean by this. Do you wish to have had
| sex with a greater number of women? Or do you wish you just had
| more sex with your partner/s?
|
| If it's the former, I believe this is something all men want
| deep down. Religion has done well to squash this desire and
| many deny they have it at all, but they do. But it's like
| chasing the dragon. I don't think you can ever really satisfy
| this urge.
|
| If it's the latter, why did you not have more sex at the time?
| Did you want it at the time? Now I live with one partner I have
| almost as much sex as I want with a single partner. But it's a
| lot less than I used to have/want.
| sneak wrote:
| > _But it 's like chasing the dragon. I don't think you can
| ever really satisfy this urge._
|
| I theorize that people who believe this haven't really tried.
| In my experience it's easier than it seems; definitely not an
| insurmountable task.
| cm2012 wrote:
| A lot of older men like to be seen with young, pretty women
| for the status of it. That part of it, the status seeking,
| can never be satiated.
| Mandelmus wrote:
| I agree with this. I've had a very adventorous and
| fulfilling sex life in my teens and especially twenties,
| including polyamorous relationships, etc., and now I'm 33,
| in a monogamous relationship for close to three years,p and
| fully content. I don't feel like I have anything to prove
| anymore sexually and it's quite liberating.
| okareaman wrote:
| I would pay for it now if that was all there was. Why not? I
| pay for someone to fix my car. I pay someone to do my taxes.
| Some women view themselves as sex workers providing a
| service. I would take them up on that now if I were younger.
| Pimpslapofdeath wrote:
| > Would I have fed a beloved dog stimulants to keep it working
| when it needed sleep?
|
| We do that to other people/animals all the time. Overcrowded,
| throughput optimized animal farms. Amazon warehouses. Pilots.
| ssr2020 wrote:
| A good writing and advice. Reminded me that.
|
| Friend! The body and body of a human being are like an animal
| held by a soldier from the assets. Just as that soldier is
| obliged to feed and serve that animal, the human being is also
| obliged to feed that body. Mesnevi-i Nuriye
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