[HN Gopher] Beautiful Italian towns will pay you to work remotely
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       Beautiful Italian towns will pay you to work remotely
        
       Author : Tomte
       Score  : 54 points
       Date   : 2021-05-09 20:21 UTC (2 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (edition.cnn.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (edition.cnn.com)
        
       | kordlessagain wrote:
       | CNN popups no good.
        
       | sirfz wrote:
       | Article doesn't mention this, I wonder if this includes non-
       | European visa-requiring visitors, if yes then do they offer
       | residency?
        
         | disabled wrote:
         | Sometimes yes, although typically not.
         | 
         | It is far better of a deal as an American to get EU citizenship
         | in any EU country. This confers you Freedom of Movement Rights
         | to live/work/retire in any EU or EFTA country, once you acquire
         | the EU citizenship. You will always be seen as "the American"
         | and also so with your American credentials. For Americans,
         | usually the best country to do this is Republic of Ireland, as
         | a it permits dual citizenship and it only takes 5 years to
         | become a citizen.
         | 
         | With Irish citizenship, you also get Freedom of Movement rights
         | to live/work/retire in the UK, unlike other EU passports due to
         | old treaties and ties with the British.
         | 
         | Also, many people on here could work without having to get
         | sponsorship in Ireland as they have the qualifications to get a
         | skills waiver from the Irish government.
         | 
         | Once you are an Irish citizen, you will legally have the rights
         | to work remote-based US-only jobs anywhere in the Ireland, the
         | UK, EU, and EFTA. You just have your US employer hire you on as
         | a contractor and have an Irish payroll company take care of the
         | US (global income taxation) and Irish (residence based income)
         | taxes. Obviously you forfeit Irish workers rights going this
         | and you are subject to US employment law in this case,
         | generally speaking.
        
           | sirfz wrote:
           | Thanks for the insight, I should've been more specific. I'm
           | asking for non American/western passport holders
        
       | dvfjsdhgfv wrote:
       | Santa Fiora is beautiful! Some random points:
       | 
       | 1. It's very hot in the summer - you'll be OK inside, but
       | personally I can't spend much time outside during the hottest
       | days of the summer. The altitude helps a bit.
       | 
       | 2. You have everything you need, and the sea is not far away (an
       | hour drive away; count two hours if by public transport).
       | 
       | 3. You basically need to have a car if you want to move. The
       | public transport is mostly fine, unless it's Sunday and you
       | missed the last bus. The taxis are terribly expensive (the ride
       | to/from the nearest city can easily cost more than the EUR100
       | rent mentioned in the article).
       | 
       | 4. You need to be prepared to spend money on gas which is used
       | for heating during the winter. It's important to always be
       | prepared and never run out of gas otherwise you'll need to move
       | to your friend's house to avoid freezing.
       | 
       | 5. People are very friendly.
       | 
       | 6. There are many immigrants from Bangladesh working in the local
       | vineyards. After some initial conflicts things are more or less
       | normal now. I wouldn't say there is some integration (except the
       | kids at schools), but people get along fine.
       | 
       | 7. If you plan to come, I'd suggest starting around now and
       | leaving in September. In October you'll already need gas,
       | definitely in November. Winters are beautiful if the snow falls,
       | but the curvy roads get even more dangerous.
       | 
       | 8. Local food is delicious. You can get liters of high quality
       | wine and excellent olive oil from local producers extremely
       | cheap. There are also many green vegetables and various ways of
       | cooking them that you'll learn with time.
       | 
       | 9. If you have a car, it's worth visiting various small local
       | restaurants, some of them you'll never forget.
       | 
       | 10. The air feels very pure and you'll sleep well at night (also
       | during the day if you wish - all windows have shutters).
        
       | poisonborz wrote:
       | The dubious nature of these "1EUR" south european homes were
       | already covered in many articles. Most of them come with a lot of
       | strings attached (like how much time you have to spend there, and
       | you can't rent it), huge renovation cost in an area where
       | craftsmen are largely unavailable or untrusting of foreigners,
       | complexities with authorities due to the historical status of
       | buildings, desolate areas without shopping opportunities... and
       | the list goes on.
       | 
       | Instead of sprinkling fairy magic, these articles should at least
       | hint at these.
        
         | curmudgeon22 wrote:
         | This seems a bit different from the feel of it. The towns are
         | subsidizing short term stays of 2-6 months. You are renting
         | from someone else, so you're not really making a significant
         | investment.
        
         | jamisteven wrote:
         | exactly, looked into this heavily years ago and this is spot
         | on. These towns will basically never turn into anything worth
         | investing energy into and most have absent local governments.
        
       | kmarc wrote:
       | FWIW this was part of my life pre-pandemic; remote work from
       | Italy is amazing, especially if you willing to try mingling in
       | the evenings on the piazzas, or even enjoy a short shot-like
       | coffee after your mid-day siesta.
       | 
       | But I mostly visited more frequented cities; remote work is fun,
       | but preferably not in the middle of nowhere.
       | 
       | Also, I already felt like I'm taking advantage of the situation
       | (and of the less fortunate Italian locals, whereas "we", the
       | wealthier digital nomads use this opportunity as spoiled rich
       | kids). I hope there will be a sustainable model in the future for
       | these towns to welcome (and somewhat integrate) remote workers
       | while respecting locals and their culture too.
        
         | Mediterraneo10 wrote:
         | Some regions in Europe that want to attract remote workers (and
         | pensioners from wealthier places), are doing so because they
         | are grappling with rural depopulation. There is definitely the
         | opportunity for cultural clashes to arise, but by coming and
         | spending your money locally, you aren't "taking advantage of
         | the situation" as much as doing exactly what the local
         | authorities want you to do.
        
           | tormeh wrote:
           | The dosage maketh the poison. Like any other place, they want
           | to prevent change. So they want to replace the people moving
           | away with new people. Any less and it's a dying village. Any
           | more, and it's gentrification.
        
       | system16 wrote:
       | This is really interesting and something I'd actually consider
       | (even without the rent rebate), but based on the fact the website
       | and application form are only in Italian and the contact
       | information they request does not ask for country, I'm assuming
       | this is targeting Italians in the city to come visit the
       | countryside and hopefully stay.
        
       | frankbreetz wrote:
       | Does anyone know what the tax situation is? I know if you are a
       | US citizen you have to pay on all income, no matter where you
       | live. Would you also have to pay Italian tax on top of that? That
       | would mostly make up the cost of the subsidy.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | disabled wrote:
         | It depends. The US government has a double taxation agreement
         | and also a social security agreement with Italy.
         | 
         | The US government does not have these agreements in Croatia
         | (which is also part of the European Union), for example, which
         | means that if you are a dual US|EU citizen (such as Croatian,
         | like me) living in Croatia, you get double taxed on all of your
         | income. You still get to live like a king or a queen though,
         | working for a US based company as a contractor being paid US
         | income in dollars, as Croatia is cheap and very nice.
         | 
         | US tax law is complicated. Also, if you are hired as a
         | contractor by your US based employer then there are different
         | rules than if you are a full time US citizen worker working
         | outside the United States. (By the way, your US based employer
         | has to know where you are domiciled when you are working for
         | them. It is a legal requirement and they can get reamed by the
         | IRS! It is not just about you!)
         | 
         | There is also the Foreign Earned Income Tax Exclusion and the
         | Foreign Tax Credit, one of which typically you must elect.
        
       | skrtskrt wrote:
       | I have family in the south and have visited a few times in the
       | last 15 years.
       | 
       | A lot of these places have never really recovered since the 2008
       | crash. You can see many empty half built buildings. Closed
       | nightclubs. Maybe half the businesses open that there used to.
       | 
       | Right before coronavirus many people were investing in fixing up
       | old buildings for AirBnBs. Who knows if they'll ever get that
       | money back.
       | 
       | Tourism is really all a lot of these places have left. The kids
       | all want to leave for Germany or Australia where they know they
       | can afford to leave with an okay job. There's no work for
       | tradesmen that would have worked on building-related trades.
       | 
       | Graffiti is way more common everywhere than it was 10 years ago.
       | It's just really really hard to see.
        
       | tschwimmer wrote:
       | Anyone have experience doing something like this as a non-Italian
       | speaker? It sounds very nice but I also have a bad feeling about
       | navigating Italian provincial bureaucracy without a strong grasp
       | of the language.
        
         | yosito wrote:
         | Italian is a very approachable language for an English speaker.
         | 6 months of immersion should be more than sufficient to be able
         | to handle some paperwork. Plus, it's Europe. There are tons of
         | people who speak English, and you can easily get an interpretor
         | or bilingual lawyer to help you with things.
        
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       (page generated 2021-05-09 23:01 UTC)