[HN Gopher] Does NMN improve metabolic health in humans?
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       Does NMN improve metabolic health in humans?
        
       Author : nradov
       Score  : 68 points
       Date   : 2021-05-09 15:03 UTC (7 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (peterattiamd.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (peterattiamd.com)
        
       | alien_player wrote:
       | People should remember that all kinds of stimulants do not
       | deliver energy by themselves. Instead, they push the organism to
       | produce\overwork on what it already has.
        
         | bpodgursky wrote:
         | Sure, but a lot of people would be perfectly happy eating 15%
         | more calories to support a more energetic and healthy
         | lifestyle.
         | 
         | Our biological limits evolved in a calorie-scarce environment;
         | evolution made tradeoffs about what we should be capable of
         | doing based on whether we would starve to death.
         | 
         | Those tradeoffs sometimes are maladapted to the 21st century,
         | and the metabolic hack of "eating a bit more" is not a
         | hardship.
        
           | nradov wrote:
           | Running your metabolism 15% faster might give you more energy
           | in the short term, but I expect the additional oxidative
           | stress would damage long term health. There's no free lunch.
        
         | voisin wrote:
         | How can one learn more about which stimulants have the "right"
         | impacts?
        
           | Tade0 wrote:
           | None really. All they do is "borrow" with interest.
        
         | tasty_freeze wrote:
         | My son is young and is dabbling with various things, mostly at
         | raves and such. One thing I said about this which he said has
         | stuck with him: stimulants aren't giving you energy -- they are
         | borrowing tomorrow's energy.
        
       | hourislate wrote:
       | Dr Brad Stanfield has done quite a few videos over the last few
       | months on NMN and they have been quite informative. Lots of
       | fantastic info on current research, etc.
       | 
       | Great channel and I really like that he use Cochrane Reports.
       | 
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f46mHDvdHcE
        
         | harles wrote:
         | As someone that's already drank the NMN koolaid, I'm quite
         | turned off by this channel. The number of times things are
         | described as "epic" reminds me of an infomercial. Maybe his
         | recommendations are still good but I wish there was more
         | nuance. Results also seem to be given the most optimistic
         | possible interpretation.
        
       | podgaj wrote:
       | Hey, we make can NAD+ ourselves, you just have to get the
       | Quinolinic pathway flowing:
       | 
       | https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Overview-of-the-kynureni...
       | 
       | This is most important when you have any kind of inflammation
       | since inflammation stimulates the IDO enzymes.
       | 
       | How do you do that? Probably with some of the cofactors of the
       | enzymes in the pathway liken:
       | 
       | B6 for KYNU: https://www.uniprot.org/uniprot/Q16719
       | 
       | Riboflavin for KMO: https://www.uniprot.org/uniprot/O15229
       | 
       | I really wish the researchers would start testing people for
       | these deficiencies more regularly.
        
         | lumost wrote:
         | Or even general blood screenings. I once went to the doctor for
         | depression that was severe enough to affect work and marriage.
         | I was fortunate that the doctor tested for B12 deficiency, a
         | week of methylated b12 supplementation fully fixed my
         | depression which hasn't returned in years.
         | 
         | Turns out there is a genetic component to B12 deficiency, and
         | other family members have been turning up with the same kind of
         | thing.
         | 
         | I wonder how many people get driven into expensive medication
         | and treatment programs for relatively simple to treat
         | vitamin/metabolic disorders.
        
           | podgaj wrote:
           | All true. I can't tell you how many women I know we're
           | suffering from "depression" and then they found out they were
           | severely iron deficient.
           | 
           | In my opinion, all mood disorders are metabolic disorders so
           | that's what frustrates me about it all.
        
       | legulere wrote:
       | There's some miracle chemical every few years that's supposed to
       | generally be healthy. So far none of them turned out to be
       | generally recommended.
       | 
       | I'll try to stick to a healthy lifestyle instead, without any
       | supplements.
        
       | newdude116 wrote:
       | you could try this https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK92758/
        
         | newdude116 wrote:
         | Why the downvote? This can be bought via biotechnological
         | produced stock in any dietary supplement store and is pretty
         | relevant to the post
         | 
         | https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1847515/
         | 
         | "Pharmacological studies on Yang and Yin tonifying herbs
         | suggest that Yang tonifying herbs stimulate mitochondrial
         | adenosine triphosphate (ATP) generation, "
        
       | criddell wrote:
       | I've been supplementing with NR for the past couple of years and
       | I've experienced a lot less inflammation-related problems in that
       | time. For example, I used to wake up occasionally with sore
       | joints (especially hands, wrists, and knees) and swelling in my
       | hands to the point where the thumb on one hand could only bend
       | about half as much as the thumb on my other hand.
       | 
       | I haven't had that problem at all since I added more vitamin D
       | and NR to my usual multivitamin. I don't know if the NR or the
       | additional D is responsible, but it coincides 100%. Nothing else
       | has really changed.
        
         | newdude116 wrote:
         | What is NR?
        
           | yetihehe wrote:
           | NMN - nicotinamide mononucleotide
           | 
           | NR - Nicotinamide Riboside
           | 
           | NAD - Nicotinamide adenine dinucleotide
        
       | dieselerator wrote:
       | tl;dr NMN = nicotinamide mononucleotide
       | 
       | The author explains a published paper and says though the
       | reported results may be statistically significant, there is not
       | convincing evidence that they are clinically significant. So,
       | more study needed.
        
       | The_rationalist wrote:
       | Another way to potentially increase lifespan that has some
       | momentum are MAO-B inhibitors such as selegiline.
        
         | guerrilla wrote:
         | Although eating cheese with that can kill you, so is there not
         | an R-MAOI like moclobemide but for MAO-B?
        
           | The_rationalist wrote:
           | _Although eating cheese with that can kill you,_ That 's a
           | non issue at low dose selegiline (1mg per day) and low doses
           | are likely to be more effective.
           | 
           | There is also the emsam version of selegiline that solve the
           | problem.
           | 
           | Good question, RIMB does not exists on the market (but
           | probably exists on some natural compounds) however it's not
           | needed for reason aboves, there are also purely selective
           | MAO-B inhibitors such as rasagiline which don't have the
           | cheese effect, however I believe it isn't as effective for
           | fighting ageing (the main effect does not come from MAO-BI)
        
         | podgaj wrote:
         | I wonder if this is because it lowers the production of
         | H2O2...?
         | 
         | https://www.uniprot.org/uniprot/P27338
         | 
         | So maybe supplements that promote glutathione production would
         | be a better avenue.
        
           | The_rationalist wrote:
           | Selegiline/BPAP decrease ageing by multiple mechanisms:
           | 
           | 1) at non-low doses it increase dopamine level/synthesis,
           | dopamine reduce with aging (15% less at 40, 45% less at 70)
           | and this accelerate ageing (can be said of many things, and
           | it also a strong reason for testosterone replacement therapy)
           | 
           | 2) it is a potent antioxydant and is pro apoptotic at the
           | mytochondrial level. This massively reduce accumulation of
           | ROS and is shown to be highly beneficial in many conditions
           | (such as myopathies, and neurodegenerations)
           | 
           | 3) there is a third mechanism (effective at low dose) That is
           | apparently more important than the 2 first mechanisms (at
           | least in rats) and show extreme results such as X2 lifespan
           | in rats and X3-4 learning ability
           | 
           | https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S002432051.
           | ..
        
             | podgaj wrote:
             | 1) Correlation is not causation. It could be that the dope
             | mean just coincides with the reduce levels of Hydrogen
             | peroxide.
             | 
             | 2) But I explained how it's an antioxidant , it doesn't
             | have any antioxidant properties on its own, it just
             | prevents the creation of hydrogen peroxide.
             | 
             | 3) It really isn't much to deduce from the third study.
        
               | The_rationalist wrote:
               | _1) Correlation is not causation. It could be that the
               | dope mean just coincides with the reduce levels of
               | Hydrogen peroxide._ MAO-B degrade dopamine it is clearly
               | causative.
        
               | podgaj wrote:
               | But you're saying is the dopamine, I'm saying is the
               | hydrogen peroxide that is not produced when the dopamine
               | is not metabolize. Dopamine has no real function in the
               | body other than neurological. But oxidative stress is
               | critically important especially to lifespan.
        
       | meowkit wrote:
       | Anecdote:
       | 
       | Started supplementing with NMN and NAD+ after coming across David
       | Sinclair's research and book.
       | 
       | I injured my knee in a motorcycle high side, and seemed to
       | develop chronic osteoarthritis in the joint.
       | 
       | For 2 years I had dealt with this chronic pain and weakness that
       | was only mitigated by leg/rehab exercises. However, the dull pain
       | would come back if I stopped.
       | 
       | After taking NMN/NAD+ orally (1 pill every few days) I noticed
       | that for the rest of the day inflammation was very much reduced
       | for me - especially in my knee. A few months later now my knee is
       | a lot better and I haven't been taking the supplements.
       | 
       | I like Sinclair's research a lot, and my anecdote aligns with
       | many of the results anecdotes he has shared. Maybe my knee just
       | healed naturally, but I think there is something here.
        
         | inglor_cz wrote:
         | Another anecdote.
         | 
         | 42 y.o. male. My eyesight has improved since I started
         | experimenting with NMN; over 1 dioptrie in one eye, actually.
         | The effect was very quick, in a week or so. I definitely did
         | not expect it.
         | 
         | Also, my left thumb joint cracks less.
        
           | dmichulke wrote:
           | My irony detector doesn't give me a clear signal on this
        
         | voisin wrote:
         | What brand supplements do you take and what dose? I did a
         | cursory look online and was nervous about not finding any
         | brands that I was familiar with, and I am concerned about
         | quality given lack of regulations in the supplement market.
        
           | dillondoyle wrote:
           | I've taken NOW brand for other things like Vitamin D and they
           | seem pretty legitimate.
           | 
           | Though the reviews here seem like the side effects are
           | horrible & counter the the purpose.
           | 
           | https://www.amazon.com/NOW-Supplements-Nicotinamide-
           | Dinucleo...
        
           | maxqin1 wrote:
           | > nervous about not finding any brands that I was familiar
           | with
           | 
           | Every "amazing" supplement I hear about encounters this
           | problem. It has become laughable just how scammy/scummy some
           | of the packages look.
           | 
           | Here's one of the more recent https://www.amazon.com/Thermal-
           | Non-Stimulant-Thermogenic-Bur...
           | 
           | It's recommended by a seemingly serious and reputable doctor.
           | I'm not buying it though.
           | 
           | The problem is that the supplement market has the incentive
           | to maximize short-term marketing since their isn't any
           | defensibility without a "proprietary" formula, which is a red
           | flag in itself.
        
             | rubicon33 wrote:
             | You didn't even answer the op question... is it too much to
             | ask what brand / supplement you took, and how much?
        
               | [deleted]
        
               | usmannk wrote:
               | not the same person
        
               | rubicon33 wrote:
               | I am dumb, and deserve these downvotes.
        
         | passivate wrote:
         | What age group are you in?
        
       | howmayiannoyyou wrote:
       | By contrast, GLP-1 is known to improve glucose uptake in skeletal
       | muscle, among other benefits. Not an OTC drug or supplement
       | however.
       | 
       | Web Abstract:
       | https://diabetes.diabetesjournals.org/content/51/suppl_3/S43...
       | 
       | PDF:
       | https://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.48...
        
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