[HN Gopher] Does NMN improve metabolic health in humans?
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Does NMN improve metabolic health in humans?
Author : nradov
Score : 68 points
Date : 2021-05-09 15:03 UTC (7 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (peterattiamd.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (peterattiamd.com)
| alien_player wrote:
| People should remember that all kinds of stimulants do not
| deliver energy by themselves. Instead, they push the organism to
| produce\overwork on what it already has.
| bpodgursky wrote:
| Sure, but a lot of people would be perfectly happy eating 15%
| more calories to support a more energetic and healthy
| lifestyle.
|
| Our biological limits evolved in a calorie-scarce environment;
| evolution made tradeoffs about what we should be capable of
| doing based on whether we would starve to death.
|
| Those tradeoffs sometimes are maladapted to the 21st century,
| and the metabolic hack of "eating a bit more" is not a
| hardship.
| nradov wrote:
| Running your metabolism 15% faster might give you more energy
| in the short term, but I expect the additional oxidative
| stress would damage long term health. There's no free lunch.
| voisin wrote:
| How can one learn more about which stimulants have the "right"
| impacts?
| Tade0 wrote:
| None really. All they do is "borrow" with interest.
| tasty_freeze wrote:
| My son is young and is dabbling with various things, mostly at
| raves and such. One thing I said about this which he said has
| stuck with him: stimulants aren't giving you energy -- they are
| borrowing tomorrow's energy.
| hourislate wrote:
| Dr Brad Stanfield has done quite a few videos over the last few
| months on NMN and they have been quite informative. Lots of
| fantastic info on current research, etc.
|
| Great channel and I really like that he use Cochrane Reports.
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f46mHDvdHcE
| harles wrote:
| As someone that's already drank the NMN koolaid, I'm quite
| turned off by this channel. The number of times things are
| described as "epic" reminds me of an infomercial. Maybe his
| recommendations are still good but I wish there was more
| nuance. Results also seem to be given the most optimistic
| possible interpretation.
| podgaj wrote:
| Hey, we make can NAD+ ourselves, you just have to get the
| Quinolinic pathway flowing:
|
| https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Overview-of-the-kynureni...
|
| This is most important when you have any kind of inflammation
| since inflammation stimulates the IDO enzymes.
|
| How do you do that? Probably with some of the cofactors of the
| enzymes in the pathway liken:
|
| B6 for KYNU: https://www.uniprot.org/uniprot/Q16719
|
| Riboflavin for KMO: https://www.uniprot.org/uniprot/O15229
|
| I really wish the researchers would start testing people for
| these deficiencies more regularly.
| lumost wrote:
| Or even general blood screenings. I once went to the doctor for
| depression that was severe enough to affect work and marriage.
| I was fortunate that the doctor tested for B12 deficiency, a
| week of methylated b12 supplementation fully fixed my
| depression which hasn't returned in years.
|
| Turns out there is a genetic component to B12 deficiency, and
| other family members have been turning up with the same kind of
| thing.
|
| I wonder how many people get driven into expensive medication
| and treatment programs for relatively simple to treat
| vitamin/metabolic disorders.
| podgaj wrote:
| All true. I can't tell you how many women I know we're
| suffering from "depression" and then they found out they were
| severely iron deficient.
|
| In my opinion, all mood disorders are metabolic disorders so
| that's what frustrates me about it all.
| legulere wrote:
| There's some miracle chemical every few years that's supposed to
| generally be healthy. So far none of them turned out to be
| generally recommended.
|
| I'll try to stick to a healthy lifestyle instead, without any
| supplements.
| newdude116 wrote:
| you could try this https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK92758/
| newdude116 wrote:
| Why the downvote? This can be bought via biotechnological
| produced stock in any dietary supplement store and is pretty
| relevant to the post
|
| https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1847515/
|
| "Pharmacological studies on Yang and Yin tonifying herbs
| suggest that Yang tonifying herbs stimulate mitochondrial
| adenosine triphosphate (ATP) generation, "
| criddell wrote:
| I've been supplementing with NR for the past couple of years and
| I've experienced a lot less inflammation-related problems in that
| time. For example, I used to wake up occasionally with sore
| joints (especially hands, wrists, and knees) and swelling in my
| hands to the point where the thumb on one hand could only bend
| about half as much as the thumb on my other hand.
|
| I haven't had that problem at all since I added more vitamin D
| and NR to my usual multivitamin. I don't know if the NR or the
| additional D is responsible, but it coincides 100%. Nothing else
| has really changed.
| newdude116 wrote:
| What is NR?
| yetihehe wrote:
| NMN - nicotinamide mononucleotide
|
| NR - Nicotinamide Riboside
|
| NAD - Nicotinamide adenine dinucleotide
| dieselerator wrote:
| tl;dr NMN = nicotinamide mononucleotide
|
| The author explains a published paper and says though the
| reported results may be statistically significant, there is not
| convincing evidence that they are clinically significant. So,
| more study needed.
| The_rationalist wrote:
| Another way to potentially increase lifespan that has some
| momentum are MAO-B inhibitors such as selegiline.
| guerrilla wrote:
| Although eating cheese with that can kill you, so is there not
| an R-MAOI like moclobemide but for MAO-B?
| The_rationalist wrote:
| _Although eating cheese with that can kill you,_ That 's a
| non issue at low dose selegiline (1mg per day) and low doses
| are likely to be more effective.
|
| There is also the emsam version of selegiline that solve the
| problem.
|
| Good question, RIMB does not exists on the market (but
| probably exists on some natural compounds) however it's not
| needed for reason aboves, there are also purely selective
| MAO-B inhibitors such as rasagiline which don't have the
| cheese effect, however I believe it isn't as effective for
| fighting ageing (the main effect does not come from MAO-BI)
| podgaj wrote:
| I wonder if this is because it lowers the production of
| H2O2...?
|
| https://www.uniprot.org/uniprot/P27338
|
| So maybe supplements that promote glutathione production would
| be a better avenue.
| The_rationalist wrote:
| Selegiline/BPAP decrease ageing by multiple mechanisms:
|
| 1) at non-low doses it increase dopamine level/synthesis,
| dopamine reduce with aging (15% less at 40, 45% less at 70)
| and this accelerate ageing (can be said of many things, and
| it also a strong reason for testosterone replacement therapy)
|
| 2) it is a potent antioxydant and is pro apoptotic at the
| mytochondrial level. This massively reduce accumulation of
| ROS and is shown to be highly beneficial in many conditions
| (such as myopathies, and neurodegenerations)
|
| 3) there is a third mechanism (effective at low dose) That is
| apparently more important than the 2 first mechanisms (at
| least in rats) and show extreme results such as X2 lifespan
| in rats and X3-4 learning ability
|
| https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S002432051.
| ..
| podgaj wrote:
| 1) Correlation is not causation. It could be that the dope
| mean just coincides with the reduce levels of Hydrogen
| peroxide.
|
| 2) But I explained how it's an antioxidant , it doesn't
| have any antioxidant properties on its own, it just
| prevents the creation of hydrogen peroxide.
|
| 3) It really isn't much to deduce from the third study.
| The_rationalist wrote:
| _1) Correlation is not causation. It could be that the
| dope mean just coincides with the reduce levels of
| Hydrogen peroxide._ MAO-B degrade dopamine it is clearly
| causative.
| podgaj wrote:
| But you're saying is the dopamine, I'm saying is the
| hydrogen peroxide that is not produced when the dopamine
| is not metabolize. Dopamine has no real function in the
| body other than neurological. But oxidative stress is
| critically important especially to lifespan.
| meowkit wrote:
| Anecdote:
|
| Started supplementing with NMN and NAD+ after coming across David
| Sinclair's research and book.
|
| I injured my knee in a motorcycle high side, and seemed to
| develop chronic osteoarthritis in the joint.
|
| For 2 years I had dealt with this chronic pain and weakness that
| was only mitigated by leg/rehab exercises. However, the dull pain
| would come back if I stopped.
|
| After taking NMN/NAD+ orally (1 pill every few days) I noticed
| that for the rest of the day inflammation was very much reduced
| for me - especially in my knee. A few months later now my knee is
| a lot better and I haven't been taking the supplements.
|
| I like Sinclair's research a lot, and my anecdote aligns with
| many of the results anecdotes he has shared. Maybe my knee just
| healed naturally, but I think there is something here.
| inglor_cz wrote:
| Another anecdote.
|
| 42 y.o. male. My eyesight has improved since I started
| experimenting with NMN; over 1 dioptrie in one eye, actually.
| The effect was very quick, in a week or so. I definitely did
| not expect it.
|
| Also, my left thumb joint cracks less.
| dmichulke wrote:
| My irony detector doesn't give me a clear signal on this
| voisin wrote:
| What brand supplements do you take and what dose? I did a
| cursory look online and was nervous about not finding any
| brands that I was familiar with, and I am concerned about
| quality given lack of regulations in the supplement market.
| dillondoyle wrote:
| I've taken NOW brand for other things like Vitamin D and they
| seem pretty legitimate.
|
| Though the reviews here seem like the side effects are
| horrible & counter the the purpose.
|
| https://www.amazon.com/NOW-Supplements-Nicotinamide-
| Dinucleo...
| maxqin1 wrote:
| > nervous about not finding any brands that I was familiar
| with
|
| Every "amazing" supplement I hear about encounters this
| problem. It has become laughable just how scammy/scummy some
| of the packages look.
|
| Here's one of the more recent https://www.amazon.com/Thermal-
| Non-Stimulant-Thermogenic-Bur...
|
| It's recommended by a seemingly serious and reputable doctor.
| I'm not buying it though.
|
| The problem is that the supplement market has the incentive
| to maximize short-term marketing since their isn't any
| defensibility without a "proprietary" formula, which is a red
| flag in itself.
| rubicon33 wrote:
| You didn't even answer the op question... is it too much to
| ask what brand / supplement you took, and how much?
| [deleted]
| usmannk wrote:
| not the same person
| rubicon33 wrote:
| I am dumb, and deserve these downvotes.
| passivate wrote:
| What age group are you in?
| howmayiannoyyou wrote:
| By contrast, GLP-1 is known to improve glucose uptake in skeletal
| muscle, among other benefits. Not an OTC drug or supplement
| however.
|
| Web Abstract:
| https://diabetes.diabetesjournals.org/content/51/suppl_3/S43...
|
| PDF:
| https://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.48...
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