[HN Gopher] Mediterranean diet may prevent memory loss and demen...
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Mediterranean diet may prevent memory loss and dementia, study
       finds
        
       Author : spekcular
       Score  : 48 points
       Date   : 2021-05-08 18:26 UTC (4 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.cnn.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.cnn.com)
        
       | WalterBright wrote:
       | Similar information is in the book "The End of Alzheimers".
       | 
       | https://www.amazon.com/End-Alzheimers-Program-Protocol-Cogni...
        
       | krona wrote:
       | The nutritional composition of today's vegetables in the average
       | supermarket bare little resplendence to the variety of food
       | consumed decades ago in the Mediterranean. I wonder if the study
       | could account for this unfortunate fact.
       | 
       | Anyone who's compared tomato imported from the Netherlands (the
       | worlds second largest exporter of tomato) to a tomato bought in a
       | farmers market in Italy knows what I mean.
        
         | bennysomething wrote:
         | Genuine question: where can I find info on this? The more
         | expensive tomoatos in my super market taste amazing compared to
         | cheap ones. Is better taste more nutritious? Would growing my
         | own veg in a green house help?
        
           | timeon wrote:
           | Well I do not know why some taste so wrong - are not ripe
           | enough (I have checked them with my refractometer and Brix
           | was lower). Not sure about nutrition but taste is different.
           | When I buy some street-food like burger or falafel and see
           | those tomatoes in there with white-red flesh I feel so sad.
           | Cherry tomatos can be good even in supermarket - just not in
           | winter. I do not know why - I think there are LED lights that
           | can help - they maybe just do not bother.
           | 
           | Anyway I live in zone 7b and grow them outside (seeding
           | inside at the end of February and transplantig them outside
           | in May - usually after 15th of May but as weather is changing
           | here it can be even sooner). And taste is so good. From
           | cherry tomatoes to really big ones. From 20 to 60 plants you
           | can be self sufficient. Eat them fresh, preserve tomato sauce
           | and dry them.
        
           | simonmales wrote:
           | I can't recall what I watched, but it was Michael Polan
           | saying that organic food is better for you and also tastes
           | better.
           | 
           | Googling "Michael Poland organic food tastes better" might
           | get you into the right direction.
        
         | maccard wrote:
         | > The nutritional composition of today's vegetables in the
         | average supermarket bare little resplendence to the variety of
         | food consumed decades ago in the Mediterranean.
         | 
         | I hate being that guy, but citation needed? Have you measured
         | this (or can you share a study with us that has)? This is a
         | bold claim and definite worth having reinforced.
         | 
         | > Anyone who's compared tomato imported from the Netherlands
         | (the worlds second largest exporter of tomato) to a tomato
         | bought in a farmers market in Italy knows what I mean.
         | 
         | I can attest to the difference in flavor between a fresh
         | Mediterranean product and the basic supermarket version, but i
         | can also attest to the flavor difference between a room
         | temperature quality beer and an ice cold bottle of the cheapest
         | crap imaginable on a beach.
        
       | raffraffraff wrote:
       | Pizza!!
        
       | hmahncke wrote:
       | This is an observational study, not a randomized controlled
       | trial. So it can't really establish causality. A number of
       | observational studies have previously shown an association
       | between MeDi adherence and cognitive function and dementia risk;
       | this went further to establish an association with structural
       | brain imaging measures.
       | 
       | We're still waiting for the outcome of the NIH funded randomized
       | controlled trial.
        
         | spekcular wrote:
         | What's the name of the NIH trial? I'd like to keep tabs on it.
        
           | hmahncke wrote:
           | Clinical trials.gov link:
           | https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT02817074
        
       | sremani wrote:
       | It's not what they eat, its how and when they eat (or not) is
       | also important.
       | 
       | One thing Taleb points out is things like practicing lent or
       | religious fasting that is component in these cultures.
        
       | raarts wrote:
       | I deeply distrust headlines with expressions like 'scientists
       | say', 'study finds', or with words like 'may', 'might' or
       | 'could'.
       | 
       | In any field.
        
       | cheese_goddess wrote:
       | From wikipedia:
       | 
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mediterranean_diet#History_and...
       | 
       | > The concept of a Mediterranean diet was developed to reflect
       | "food patterns typical of Crete, much of the rest of Greece, and
       | Italy in the early 1960s".[43] Although it was first publicized
       | in 1975 by the American biologist Ancel Keys and chemist Margaret
       | Keys (a husband and wife team),[56] the Mediterranean diet failed
       | to gain widespread recognition until the 1990s. Objective data
       | showing that the Mediterranean diet is healthy originated from
       | results of epidemiological studies in Naples and Madrid,[57]
       | confirmed later by the Seven Countries Study first published in
       | 1970,[58] and a book-length report in 1980.[59]
       | 
       | > The most commonly understood version of the Mediterranean diet
       | was presented, among others, by Walter Willett and colleagues of
       | Harvard University's School of Public Health since the
       | mid-1990s.[60][61][62][63] The Mediterranean diet is based on a
       | paradox: although the people living in Mediterranean countries
       | tend to consume relatively high amounts of fat, they have far
       | lower rates of cardiovascular disease than in countries like the
       | United States where similar levels of fat consumption are found.
       | 
       | Comparing Americans with Italians and Cretans of the 1960's has
       | so many confounding factors. For one thing, the Cretans and most
       | Italians would have lived in villages and small towns and would
       | have been predominantly farmers engaged in physical work (and so
       | exercise) whereas most Americans of the '60s would live urban
       | lives in large cities and not exercised a lot. I don't know if
       | any research attempted to account for this difference in life
       | styles, but diet can't have been the only factor that affected
       | relative cardiovascular health.
        
       | AdrianB1 wrote:
       | My fist visit in Albania 20 years ago: "we produce and use olive
       | oil, but is it not as common and cheap as sunflower seed oil
       | (most used in the area), so don't think we can replace all oil
       | with olive oil because that is not possible".
       | 
       | Mediterranean diet includes olive oil, but it does not exclude
       | sunflower seed oil. Maybe CNN is not such a good source of
       | information of habits of people across the globe. Even people
       | that I know owning olive plantations and processing installations
       | don't consume a lot of it, they can't afford to.
        
         | towergratis wrote:
         | Raised in Greece. Olive oil is used exclusively in home
         | cooking, with the only exception of frying, in which case
         | sunflower seed oil is used.
         | 
         | To give you an idea, usually Greeks don't buy olive oil in
         | bottles. They buy it in 5lt to 17lt containers
         | 
         | I believe the situation is similar in Italy too. At least
         | southern Italy
        
           | UncleOxidant wrote:
           | Is some of that olive oil adulterated with other cheaper oils
           | like sunflower oil? This is the thesis of the book Extra
           | Virginity: The Sublime and Scandalous World of Olive Oil
        
             | bumbada wrote:
             | Spaniards or Italians take Olive oil seriously, just like
             | in China you could clone or adulterate anything but tea,
             | silk or porcelain.
             | 
             | If you fake phones or handbags or sunglasses nobody cares.
             | It is forbidden but authorities turn a blind eye. If you
             | fake tea in China, you get executed. Period.
             | 
             | The most important thing is that people know and a big
             | industry behind. It is easy to trick Americans, but I know
             | people that could clearly differentiate between different
             | varieties like arbequina or picual and even the year and
             | the place it comes from.
        
               | contingencies wrote:
               | _... in China ..._
               | 
               | {{citation-needed}}
        
               | cheese_goddess wrote:
               | Sorry to disappoint you but olive oil adulteration is
               | common and big business:
               | 
               | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olive_oil#Adulteration
               | 
               | > There have been allegations, particularly in Italy and
               | Spain, that regulation can be sometimes lax and
               | corrupt.[90] Major shippers are claimed to routinely
               | adulterate olive oil so that only about 40% of olive oil
               | sold as "extra virgin" in Italy actually meets the
               | specification.[91] In some cases, colza oil (extracted
               | from rapeseed) with added color and flavor has been
               | labeled and sold as olive oil.[92] This extensive fraud
               | prompted the Italian government to mandate a new labeling
               | law in 2007 for companies selling olive oil, under which
               | every bottle of Italian olive oil would have to declare
               | the farm and press on which it was produced, as well as
               | display a precise breakdown of the oils used, for blended
               | oils.[93] In February 2008, however, EU officials took
               | issue with the new law, stating that under EU rules such
               | labeling should be voluntary rather than compulsory.[92]
               | Under EU rules, olive oil may be sold as Italian even if
               | it only contains a small amount of Italian oil.[93]
               | 
               | Also see:
               | 
               | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olive_oil_regulation_and_ad
               | ult...
        
             | [deleted]
        
             | towergratis wrote:
             | No self-respecting Greek mom buys anything else other than
             | Extra Virgin Olive Oil.
             | 
             | If it does get adulterated illegally, I don't know. But
             | haven't heard of any scandal like that.
        
           | pqs wrote:
           | Spaniard here. This is the exact situation in Mediterranean
           | Spain, at least. At home, we only have olive oil, which we
           | buy in 5L bottles.
        
         | bumbada wrote:
         | >Even people that I know owning olive plantations and
         | processing installations don't consume a lot of it, they can't
         | afford to.
         | 
         | I don't know what people you are referring to, but of course
         | people owning Olive oil plantations consume lots of it if they
         | like it.And workers in those plantations.
         | 
         | I have lots of experience in Spain, Italy and Greece and on
         | those countries you have a lot of olive oil, and near
         | plantations(like in Jaen or Sevilla) EVERYBODY consumes it.
         | 
         | It is common there to take raw oil with bread for breakfast.
         | Some people just don't like it in raw form, but most people
         | like the food cooked with it, that is typical in Spain or
         | Italy.
         | 
         | They can afford it because olive oil is expensive, but not that
         | expensive there, and friends and family give each other oil
         | gifts in bulk.
         | 
         | Those prices are not what you find in a shop in California for
         | a small bottle. They give each other 10, 20 Litters containers.
         | 
         | Sunflower seed oil is used for frying things in big
         | quantities,not just because price but because it has neutral
         | flavor,but olive oil is used a lot for cooking in general.
         | 
         | You make fish in the oven, you add olive oil. You make meat,
         | you use olive oil.
         | 
         | I live in central Europe most of the year and of course I cook
         | with lots of olive oil(and sunflower oil too).
        
           | AdrianB1 wrote:
           | Albania and Jordan; both produce olive oil, both are selling
           | it to others because it is a source of income they cannot
           | ignore. You cannot sell it and eat it at the same time.
        
           | oooooooooooow wrote:
           | This is entirely correct. "Oil" in here (Italy) is synonymous
           | with EV olive oil, the only reason why households have a
           | bottle of sunflower seed or peanut oil is for deep frying.
        
       | towergratis wrote:
       | From the article:
       | 
       | > Forget lasagna, pizza, spanakopita and lamb souvlaki -- they
       | are not on the daily menu of those who live by the Mediterranean
       | seaside.
       | 
       | > The true diet is simple, plant-based cooking, with the majority
       | of each meal focused on fruits and vegetables, whole grains,
       | beans and seeds, with a few nuts and a heavy emphasis on extra-
       | virgin olive oil. Fats other than olive oil, such as butter, are
       | consumed rarely, if at all. And say goodbye to refined sugar or
       | flour.
       | 
       | > Meat can make a rare appearance, but usually only to flavor a
       | dish. Instead, meals may include eggs, dairy and poultry, but in
       | much smaller portions than in the traditional Western diet.
       | 
       | > However, fish, which are full of brain-boosting omega-3's, are
       | a staple.
       | 
       | That's definitely not today's Mediterranean diet. Maybe it's what
       | Mediterranean diet used to be 70 years ago, but as Mediterranean
       | countries became richer, so did their diet.
       | 
       | Refined flour bread is present and consumed with almost every
       | meal. Meat is very regular too. Foods like lentil soup and bean
       | soup are eaten with lots of bread, cheese, and other side dishes
       | that make it much less healthy.
        
         | tjr wrote:
         | That article description sounds closer to Joel Fuhrman's
         | "nutritarian" diet.
        
         | cheese_goddess wrote:
         | Meat is not "very regular" in the modern mediterranean diet.
         | This site ranks countries by meat consumption (overall and not
         | per capita and given with reservations because I don't know
         | where the data comes from, but still):
         | 
         | https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/meat-cons...
         | 
         | Ranking of the three countries whose cuisines inspired the
         | mediterranean diet, according to the site:
         | 
         | Italy 24
         | 
         | Spain 31
         | 
         | Greece 87
         | 
         | This ranking doesn't say anything about what kinds of meat are
         | consumed and this is culturally determined also. For instance,
         | counting per-capita consumption, Greeks, Spanish and Italians
         | eat more pigmeat than other kinds of meat:
         | 
         | https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/per-capita-meat-consumpti...
         | 
         | https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/per-capita-meat-consumpti...
         | 
         | https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/per-capita-meat-consumpti...
         | 
         | And all three countries raise relatively few cattle (with
         | Greece having less than a million):
         | 
         | https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/cattle-livestock-count-he...
         | 
         | I'm bringing this up because, to my knowledge, the traditional
         | diet in Greece, while predominantly lacto- ovo- pescaterian
         | also included cured pigmeats as a common food item, while lamb
         | was eaten only rarely, at religious feasts (particularly Easter
         | Sunday and the religious feast of a town's patron saint) and
         | cattle were raised primarily for dairy. Similar in Italy and
         | Spain.
         | 
         | So the "Mediterranean diet" as it is understood today is only
         | "inspired" by the dietary habis of the traditional diets of
         | Italians, Spanish and Greeks. In truth, these people
         | traditionally consumed meat in larger quantities than assumed
         | by the modern "Mediterranean diet". Accordingly, the amount of
         | meat that modern Italians, Spanish and Greeks eat has not
         | changed as much, from their historical past, than is suggested
         | by comparison with the modern "Mediterranean diet".
         | 
         | That said, those three peoples are still far behind other
         | developed countries in their consumption of meat today,
         | especially beef and particularly so Greece.
         | 
         | You're right about refined flour. In Italy, Spain and Greece,
         | bread is always on the table and it is mainly white bread. Pies
         | like spanakopita and pasticcio are also today made mainly with
         | refined flour. Sugar is also much more widely used today, as is
         | salt, compared to the past, because of higher availability
         | overall.
        
         | caslon wrote:
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mediterranean_diet
         | 
         | The Mediterranean diet is a diet inspired by the eating habits
         | of Greece, Italy, and Spain in the 1960s.[1][2] The principal
         | aspects of this diet include proportionally high consumption of
         | olive oil, legumes, unrefined cereals, fruits,[3] and
         | vegetables, moderate to high consumption of fish, moderate
         | consumption of dairy products (mostly as cheese and yogurt),
         | moderate wine consumption, and low consumption of non-fish meat
         | products. Olive oil has been studied as a potential health
         | factor for reducing all-cause mortality and the risk of chronic
         | diseases.
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | towergratis wrote:
           | > The Mediterranean diet is a diet inspired by the eating
           | habits of Greece, Italy, and Spain in the 1960s.
           | 
           | Hmm.. that's what I said too, right?
        
             | JumpCrisscross wrote:
             | It isn't a competition. Multiple smart angles on the same
             | issue sharpens resolution for everyone.
        
               | towergratis wrote:
               | Obviously I thought it was a rebuttal of my point, hence
               | the question
        
       | treeman79 wrote:
       | Had massive brain fog for a few years, finally got it cleared up.
       | One aspect was food related and an undiagnosed autoimmune
       | condition. Autoimmune patients often find that diet is an
       | effective way to manage disease. Anywhere from some improvement
       | to essentially cured.
       | 
       | Autoimmune conditions can take years to decades to diagnosis, so
       | a lot of people don't realize they have one.
       | 
       | There is a specific AIP diet for this.
       | 
       | Many of the reduced carb diets are similar.
        
         | noir_lord wrote:
         | Curious why you got downvotes - there actually is evidence for
         | the AIP diet and using it to control some auto-immune
         | disorders.
         | 
         | https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/aip-diet-autoimmune-pro...
         | 
         | This place is strange at times.
        
           | lambdaba wrote:
           | My conclusion after years of researching this as someone
           | diagnosed with multiple sclerosis at 24 is it's all about gut
           | barrier integrity (and thereafter other barriers like the
           | blood-brain barrier).
           | 
           | The reason we're seeing people with chronic disease earlier
           | and earlier is that the newer generations have grown up with
           | deficiencies and toxins (such as seed oils), going back to
           | the womb.
           | 
           | One of the references I often give and is downvoted both here
           | and on Reddit is a clinic in Hungary called "Paleomedicina"
           | (already with "paleo" in the name some reach for the
           | downvote). It's unfortunate as they are doing amazing work
           | with incredible success for all these "incurable" diseases.
        
             | xvedejas wrote:
             | Seed oils are toxins? Maybe I'm living under a rock by
             | being perplexed by this, but you'll have to explain
             | further.
        
               | lambdaba wrote:
               | Check out the work of Dr. Cate Shanahan. Many interviews
               | on YouTube.
               | 
               | In short it's to do mainly with the linoleic acid
               | (omega-6) content of those oils, these fats are highly
               | unstable / subjected to oxidation. When they get
               | integrated in our own body fat it wreaks havoc. Can't
               | burn fat / inflamed / chronically hungry / tired etc.
               | 
               | I don't have a reference but I read a study showing how
               | the fatty acid profile in people's body fat has gradually
               | shifted to more and more polyunsaturated fat. This is not
               | normal and as Dr. Shanahan explains, the integration of
               | seed oil fats in human body fat is unprecedented and a
               | massive experiment for which we're seeing the results for
               | some decades now, but are slow to realize.
        
           | treeman79 wrote:
           | I always imagine that half the people here are some variation
           | of Sheldon from Big Bang theory.
        
           | lambdaba wrote:
           | I post similar comments and get the same downvotes. Keywords
           | are "paleo", "keto" and "carnivore".
           | 
           | I too have fully recovered from an incurable autoimmune
           | illness.
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | carlob wrote:
       | The pictures include blueberries and salmon which are definitely
       | not staples of the Mediterranean diet and are not really
       | available locally anywhere near the Mediterranean. If it was
       | about Omega-3 they could have shown anchovies, sardines, mackerel
       | or even tuna...
        
         | masterphilo wrote:
         | Conversely, there are foods like bread & pasta, which you'd
         | think are part of a Mediterranean diet, not included in the
         | list. I think that list should be renamed to something like
         | "Low-carb Mediterranean diet may prevent..."
        
           | hkt wrote:
           | I can't imagine eating olives without some focaccia or
           | ciabatta to dip in the oil. With balsamic vinegar, naturally.
           | 
           | HN = Hanger News, today.
        
             | towergratis wrote:
             | Same in Greece, bread is everywhere. Every household buys
             | at least a loaf per day, and of course it's free and as
             | much as you can it in every restaurant.
        
         | gg80 wrote:
         | Blueberries are actually quite common in the Mediterranean
         | area, but you are right about salmon.
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | hawthornio wrote:
       | Why not just be vegan and take algae-based Omega-3 supplements???
       | If find the News' obsession with the Mediterranean diet very
       | strange.
        
         | mrtesthah wrote:
         | Why are you assuming that the primary health benefits in the
         | mediterranean diet come from omega-3 fatty acids? They could
         | just as well come from oleuropin in olives / olive oil.
        
         | hervature wrote:
         | Why even bother with tablets? A tablespoon of flaxseed covers
         | your Omega 3 and lots of fiber.
        
           | TylerLives wrote:
           | Only ~10% of plant based omega 3s is "useful" -
           | https://www.health.harvard.edu/heart-health/why-not-
           | flaxseed...
        
           | theptip wrote:
           | I was under the impression that flax just gives you ALA not
           | EPA/DHA, so you won't get all the benefits of fish/krill oil
           | with flax. The latter two are the ones that give the biggest
           | benefits.
           | 
           | Eg https://www.nordicnaturals.com/healthy-science/is-eating-
           | chi...
        
         | cheese_goddess wrote:
         | This is an honest question and I would prefer not to start a
         | flame war, but would you replace all the food you eat with
         | nutritional supplements? Or, if not all, then as many as
         | possible? If this is not possible today, is it something that
         | you would want to do in the future?
        
       | cies wrote:
       | There is no Mediterranean diet. It a huge collections of diets
       | and cuisines that have at times very little in common. In the
       | Blue Zones, a book on this topic, 2 particularly healthy medi-
       | diets/lifestyles are examined.
        
         | DoingIsLearning wrote:
         | Also one thing that is often overlooked is how
         | 'old'/traditional diets were very seasonal.
         | 
         | You would have tomatoes from June to August. Sardines would be
         | the fatest around July. You would have grapes and wine by
         | September and chestnuts by early November. You would kill a pig
         | for multiple families once a year, eat some of it fresh and
         | salt/smoke the remaining.
         | 
         | Perhaps this seasonal scarcity is not a protective factor but
         | it seems to me that this a variable that is never discussed
         | when looking at traditional diet of <geographic-region>.
        
           | towergratis wrote:
           | > Also one thing that is often overlooked is how
           | 'old'/traditional diets were very seasonal.
           | 
           | Great point. Also keep in mind that religion plays a critical
           | role. Greece in the mid 1900's was a very religious country,
           | and most people attended the 40 days diet that they would
           | abstain completely from consuming land-animal products.
        
         | doktorhladnjak wrote:
         | Mediterranean diet typically refers to a diet put together by a
         | cardiologist for his patients suffering from heart disease. It
         | really is only loosely related to what people eat in areas
         | surrounding the Mediterranean Sea
        
       | aasasd wrote:
       | I woundn't be surprised if it also cures depression. Curse this
       | here land of potato and wheat.
        
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