[HN Gopher] Minsk Family of Computers (2001)
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       Minsk Family of Computers (2001)
        
       Author : tosh
       Score  : 39 points
       Date   : 2021-05-07 12:02 UTC (1 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.computer-museum.ru)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.computer-museum.ru)
        
       | proxysna wrote:
       | Dad used to work at Ordzhonikidze factory in Minsk while these
       | things were still in production. Giant monsters, by todays
       | standarts, that would gobble up kW's and spit out enormous amount
       | of heat. I saw remains of one of these machines while i was
       | working at the, now defunct, airport Minsk-1. Great stuff. Sadly
       | most of the ones that i saw were stripped for radio components
       | and precious metals during the 90s.
        
       | hansor wrote:
       | It would be amazing to have some of those systems implemented as
       | emulators or as FPGA clones.
       | 
       | It's very sad that nearly all computer science and history is
       | biased towards western systems with common myth that Soviet Block
       | did not invent/made their own hardware and software. Same goes to
       | digitization of manuals...
       | 
       | Fun facts:
       | 
       | - It is common western myth that Soviet Block citizens were in
       | any way forbidden from owning personal computers in 80".
       | 
       | - Life was good: free healthcare, education, guaranteed
       | retirement pension, almost free apartments from government, 1 bit
       | computing, RISC, parallelism, decimal computers, fast floating
       | point accelerators, vector computers - we had it all in late 70".
       | 
       | For some reason no one brags about it, and no one cares about
       | preservation of such historical artifacts or knowledge alone.
       | Many Wikipedians also reject such claims as there are no western
       | sources available to quote...
        
         | brokenkebab wrote:
         | Unlike 99.999% of posters who praise free Soviet perks, I
         | really lived in USSR in 80s, and can say life was quite hard.
         | Things like healthcare were indeed free. They were also close
         | to useless due to crumbling equipment, impossibility to get
         | sufficient up-to-date information from outside of SU for
         | continuous education of MDs (did anyone mention free
         | education?), constant "defitsit" of medicines (actually it was
         | almost total, everything was hard to buy starting from toilet
         | paper).
         | 
         | If to speak specifically about computers we weren't forbidden
         | from having PCs indeed, but it was almost impossible to buy one
         | for many reasons, already mentioned defitsit being probably the
         | most important, but also let's not forget the SU was lagging
         | behind the West technologically, and had troubles fulfilling
         | much more basic demands than computers. Most privately-owned
         | computer hardware were self-made in 80s in USSR, and - I'm not
         | kidding - you had at times to deal with very shadowy guys to
         | buy necessary electronic parts. It's definitely easier to buy
         | cocaine in today's US.
         | 
         | As for original research in the USSR it was buried by central-
         | planned socialist system which never sufficiently rewards risk-
         | taking (and there's no riskless innovations) so no matter how
         | cool is your idea in theory it was always easier for everyone -
         | from engineers to gov't ministers - to just copy Western
         | examples (USSR didn't pay royalties anyway). Exceptions were
         | only in military field, and in situations when USSR's industry
         | was simply unable to copy.
        
           | hakfoo wrote:
           | I wonder if part of the disconnect is that we're comparing
           | the wrong countries. Even at their peak, the USSR was a much
           | poorer country than the US or Germany.
           | 
           | Many of the differences we blame on a command economy may be
           | either caused by, or exaggerated by, the wealth gap. The US
           | could afford to make both bombs and toilet paper, but the
           | USSR couldn't. It would be interesting to compare Soviet
           | quality-of-life and achievements to a free-market country of
           | similar per-capita GDP.
           | 
           | The "clone the West" decision process at least did build some
           | knowledge, infrastructure and manufacturing base. In
           | contrast, there are plenty of wealthy Western countries with
           | no meaningful semiconductor or electronics industry, because
           | they could just buy American/Japanese/Korean gear.
        
         | dimes wrote:
         | Almost free apartment... I think you mean almost free room for
         | a family of four, inside a three bedroom apartment with two
         | other families.
         | 
         | It's easy to look back now and say: "They had free health care,
         | everything was great!" But that doesn't explain why they had to
         | build a wall and use exit visas to keep people in.
        
           | hansor wrote:
           | >I think you mean almost free room for a family of four,
           | inside a three bedroom apartment with two other families.
           | 
           | You must be ironic and for sure NOT from post soviet block.
           | 
           | I meant normal 2 bedroom apartment in newly build, modern
           | building for family of 2+2 for free(you revived one after
           | working for around 10 years[including studies!], at age of
           | around 28.
           | 
           | It was not really "free" as you had to pay around ~4% of your
           | income for those 10 years. (Another perk: in communism you
           | did NOT pay any from of income tax as ordinary worker).
           | 
           | In my country government made and gave away few few
           | millions(!) of such apartments. In matter of fact - I'm still
           | living in one of it, and apart from asthetics, they are
           | warmer, strudier and quiter(!) than modern apartments.
           | 
           | >But that doesn't explain why they had to build a wall and
           | use exit visas to keep people in.
           | 
           | There is simple explanation: GREED and wish for political
           | freedom.
           | 
           | Greed: As soon as all population had jobs, healthcare, free
           | apartments, free education and insane levels disposable
           | income (no taxes, no mortages): they got greedier, and wanted
           | to have all stuff from socialist state but lifestyle seen
           | western movies. Millions belived that west is like in
           | Hollywood.
           | 
           | Political freedom - during the communist era people did not
           | have any political freedom, as in modern China. Many could
           | not stand it so they wanted to escape.
        
             | avmich wrote:
             | Very skewed picture.
        
             | minipci1321 wrote:
             | > Another perk: in communism you did NOT pay any from of
             | income tax as ordinary worker
             | 
             | Income tax was of course collected: https://aif.ru/money/my
             | money/kakoy_podohodnyy_nalog_byl_v_ss...
             | 
             | of which workers might have been not fully aware (as it was
             | deduced before wiring/handing-out the cash).
             | 
             | But there was also such a thing as "childlessness" tax on
             | income, and concerned workers were well aware of it.
             | 
             | I feel and sympathize your nostalgia of the past, but it
             | doesn't seem proper to extrapolate your personal experience
             | to the "millions" of other USSR inhabitants. Western
             | republics of the USSR were the proverbial land of milk and
             | honey, out of reach for the vast majority of them.
        
       | [deleted]
        
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       (page generated 2021-05-08 23:03 UTC)