[HN Gopher] Comparing Tesla, Ford and VW's Electrical Architectu...
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Comparing Tesla, Ford and VW's Electrical Architectures [video]
Author : ryzvonusef
Score : 71 points
Date : 2021-05-07 14:58 UTC (8 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.youtube.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.youtube.com)
| CalChris wrote:
| I understand Musk's point on parts not being available now (then?
| Model 3) but I'd like to see a deep dive on 48v vs 12v.
| nodesocket wrote:
| Excuse my ignorance, but what's the advantage of 48v vs 12v? I
| didn't hear them talk about it.
| maxerickson wrote:
| Less amps at the same power level, all the wires can be
| smaller.
| rconti wrote:
| Yeah, me too. I've been hearing about 48v (used to be 24v) for
| what feels like ages now. I only sort of "get it". Seems Tesla
| had a great opportunity to jump into 48v, more so than legacy
| automakers.
|
| On the other hand, if they had done it and it caused a bunch of
| problems, you'd have another Model X falcon doors issue. Tesla
| just doing something "to be different", and paying the price
| for it.
| nodesocket wrote:
| > Tesla just doing something "to be different", and paying
| the price for it.
|
| I own a Model Y, and there are absolutely things I wish they
| just keep the status-quo.
|
| - Navigation / map data here in Tennessee is frankly awful.
| Much worse than Google Maps. Missing locations,
| wrong/inefficient routes is common.
|
| - Turn signals. Infuriating, just stay up and down when
| engaged like every other turn signal.
|
| - No windshield wiper physical control. Add it to one of the
| stocks. Using the touchscreen to control wipers is silly.
|
| - No HUD. A optional HUD that displays: gear, speed, battery
| percent, and direction would be super useful and a missing
| feature from a $50k+ car.
| ryzvonusef wrote:
| > In this episode Sandy Munro sits down with the gentlemen from
| 3IS Inc. to discuss the differences between the electrical
| architectures of the Tesla Model Y, Ford Mach-E, and Volkswagen
| ID.4.
| memorybadger wrote:
| I am really disappointed with Sandy. While other guys are
| professional, Sandy to me seems too much biased. He was not
| like that. Sad.
| rconti wrote:
| Watching it now. How so?
| DyslexicAtheist wrote:
| I'm not a Tesla fanboy but I didn't think it was biased.
| E.g.:
|
| Right off the bat he talks about the number of ECU[1] of
| Tesla compared to others. He points out that this will
| result in inferior quality due to the number of
| connections. A no-brainer with cascading effects which has
| many other advantages for Tesla[2]. Spelling this out will
| upset a lot of people because it's a valid attack that also
| knocks the other designs into a corner that makes one
| wonder what's the point of even continuing. (at least if
| one expects a ranking on quality etc - then there is no
| recovering from that).
|
| The missing CAN-FD[3] bus-speed info on Tesla is
| interesting. It seems Tesla is doing it's own thing here
| with CAN-FD. Maybe a proprietary implementation (I couldn't
| make sense of it)?
|
| The other connections like Ethernet, LIN etc are also much
| less and I'm assuming this can be attributed to simply
| having such a small number of ECU's too.
|
| No idea what's going on with the missing OBD-II but I'd
| imagine if you want to roll out a proprietary after-market
| technology that can only be serviced at a Tesla shop then
| killing this makes sense in order to lock everyone in
| (customers but more relevant after-sales).
|
| Tesla Y has no replaceable fuses, ... and it goes on ...
| and on ...
|
| As a piston/gear-head who hates the brand, and strongly
| dislikes Musk it's a lot to digest and put up with. I don't
| understand though why the video is supposed to be biased or
| not accurate. It doesn't seem they're releasing any info
| that hasn't been floating around in various places.
|
| [1] number of ECU's https://youtu.be/ZRkm6-bBk4U?t=178 and
| critique: https://youtu.be/ZRkm6-bBk4U?t=258
|
| [2] https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Automobiles/Tesla-
| teardown-...
|
| [3] https://youtu.be/ZRkm6-bBk4U?t=468
|
| [4] zero replaceable fuses
| https://youtu.be/ZRkm6-bBk4U?t=932
| rconti wrote:
| I own a Tesla, but I'm not a fan-boy. I can appreciate
| how having fewer ECUs means, all other things being
| equal, it would be less failure prone. (But more
| expensive to replace a failed larger ECU than a failed
| smaller one). Tesla starting from scratch gives them a
| lot of advantages, not being tied to a specific legacy
| architecture or vendors. Again, assuming they actually do
| it right rather than bodge it :)
|
| Sandy and the other experienced gentlemen in the video
| are welcome to strong opinions about one approach being
| better than another; it's not _necessarily_ biased. Maybe
| you favor a "simpler" design, or maybe you favor one
| that's cheaper to repair, or uses a tried and true
| architecture, or more off-the-shelf components.
|
| I actually just had a steering wheel module replaced in
| my Model 3 last week; the Park button had stopped
| working. Of course these kinds of things are electronic
| in virtually all modern vehicles.
| new_realist wrote:
| He owns Tesla stock. Possibly also on Tesla's payroll.
| ryzvonusef wrote:
| no he doesn't, seriously, why do people remember one thing
| but not the other?
|
| He HAD Tesla stock, and _sold_ it, he realized that Tesla
| was, to quote WSB, "mooning" and threw some money at it
| and made some profit, like a LOT of people who realized
| Tesla was going to "moon" when it was about to be added to
| the S&P500 did.
|
| He saw an absolute obvious opportunity, threw some money at
| it, bought and sold, life goes on. It's not like he's a
| journalist, his main income comes from his Munro business.
|
| When he has actual conflict of interest(NDA) he discloses
| and doesn't talk anymore.
| bob33212 wrote:
| You should watch some of his early Tesla reviews. He was
| pretty negative on them. It wasn't until he dove deep to
| really understand all of Tesla that he realized how well
| things are going.
| btbuilder wrote:
| I think the benefit of a standardized diagnostic connector (and
| the protocols that come with it) are well worth a few more grams.
|
| Off-the-shelf data logging and diagnostic software is useful.
| heisenbit wrote:
| The most striking difference was the relay/fuse numbers on Tesla
| side being zero and requiring half the control boxes.
| Someone1234 wrote:
| I'm about halfway through, but this is actually quite interesting
| (the different trade-offs, both for modularity and or for
| simplicity vs. complexity).
|
| The thing I find interesting is that no matter what your opinion
| on how things _should_ be made, different vehicles "nail" it in
| different areas (e.g. the ID.4 having a simple four wire audio-
| system as opposed to an audio-network but also almost double the
| ECUs).
|
| Either way this is super nerdy and I love it.
| nodesocket wrote:
| When they were talking about pros/cons of fewer (but
| centralized) ECU's vs more ECU's (isolated, lower cost) I
| immediately thought of microservice architecture vs monolith.
| calabroa wrote:
| Absolutely. Love seeing these breakdowns...
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