[HN Gopher] WebAIM Screen Reader User Survey #9
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       WebAIM Screen Reader User Survey #9
        
       Author : d4kmor
       Score  : 43 points
       Date   : 2021-05-07 12:58 UTC (10 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (webaim.org)
 (TXT) w3m dump (webaim.org)
        
       | codeofdusk wrote:
       | I'm totally blind and use a screen reader. Was surprised to see
       | this on HN as I normally see this sort of thing just in
       | accessibility spaces on Twitter or similar! Hopefully more
       | mainstream coverage will mean that accessibility gets on the
       | radar of more developers.
        
         | willio58 wrote:
         | I'm a firm believer that web accessibility should and will
         | become more mainstream. I don't see web accessibility laws
         | becoming less stringent.
        
         | cookiengineer wrote:
         | Is there a way to contact you? I would have hundreds of
         | questions that come to mind on how you use the Web.
         | 
         | I'm building a web browser [1] that tries to make the semantics
         | of the web automateable, so its goals are kind of aligned with
         | blind people in regards to semantics and extraction.
         | 
         | My knowledge of how blind people use the web is kind of
         | outdated, though. Is JAWS still a thing?
         | 
         | (My web browser is far from being stable, lots of things don't
         | work yet and there's a ton of work left)
         | 
         | [1] https://github.com/tholian-network/stealth
        
           | miki123211 wrote:
           | I'm also a (totally blind) screen reader user. My email is
           | just my HN username followed by @gmail.com.
        
           | codeofdusk wrote:
           | JAWS is still a thing although it is definitely declining in
           | popularity. My email is my HN username at gmail dot com, and
           | I'm also my HN username on lots of other social media sites.
        
           | mwcampbell wrote:
           | I'm not the OP, but you can contact me if you like; my email
           | is in my profile. I'm not totally blind, and I don't use a
           | screen reader exclusively. But I use one a lot when browsing
           | the web. Also, I worked on the Windows accessibility team at
           | Microsoft for three years, and I wrote a Windows screen
           | reader and a talking web browser before that.
           | 
           | Edit: To answer your other question, yes, JAWS is still
           | maintained and widely used, but it's not as dominant as it
           | once was. On Windows, the NVDA open-source screen reader is
           | quite popular, and the built-in Narrator screen reader is on
           | the rise (though of course I'm biased, since I worked on it).
           | iOS with its built-in VoiceOver screen reader is also quite
           | popular among blind people, at least in the US.
        
             | cookiengineer wrote:
             | I've taken a look on the WebAIM surveys from the last years
             | and have seen that NVDA is on the rise. It's so nice to see
             | that JAWS finally loses their market share.
             | 
             | I was asking because back around 2008 when I was more
             | involved with Accessibility on the Web, we built a website
             | that had a legal requirement to be as accessible as
             | possible. So therefore we were trying to generate
             | accessible double-paged PDFs, voicing over DAISY books and
             | all. And doing so was so much work. We spent thousands of
             | man hours just on document conversion, even when the
             | underlying source format for the documents was RTF which is
             | at least theoretically easy to parse in regards to
             | layouting.
             | 
             | Every time we tried to make things compatible with JAWS, we
             | realized that JAWS was just a pile of dirty Trident hacks
             | that wasn't integrated as nicely as someone would expect
             | such a software to be.
             | 
             | It was before the rise of AI/CNNs so therefore converting a
             | vectorized PDF back into a semantic one was totally
             | impossible. These days tesseract seems to make huge
             | progress, but is still unusable for the task in practice
             | due to its high failure rate in recognized words that you
             | cannot fix with tricks like a Levenshtein distances or
             | dictionary statistics.
             | 
             | Eversince I've been more on the Linux side of things,
             | though. Here the ecosystem is so bad that I cannot even
             | start to describe it. Most TTS engines are literally from
             | the last millenia, and projects like Orca aren't made for
             | anything serious when trying to embed it into your software
             | to give users more access and control.
             | 
             | Maybe you have also some hints here? Are there better
             | alternatives that I'm not aware of?
        
               | mwcampbell wrote:
               | > Every time we tried to make things compatible with
               | JAWS, we realized that JAWS was just a pile of dirty
               | Trident hacks that wasn't integrated as nicely as someone
               | would expect such a software to be.
               | 
               | I know what you mean. Those hacks were the state of the
               | art for all Windows screen readers from the late 90s
               | through the mid to late 2000s; I did similar hacks
               | myself. But now that Internet Explorer is finally dead (I
               | think), we can leave all that in the past. These days,
               | web browsers implement documented accessibility APIs
               | (there are still a couple of competing APIs on Windows),
               | and screen readers consume them. Of course, between the
               | web application, the browser, and the screen reader,
               | there's still room for misinterpretation of the
               | standards, but the situation is better than it was back
               | then.
               | 
               | As for Linux, I dislike the Orca screen reader simply as
               | a user. I hope to do something about that before too long
               | (after my non-compete with Microsoft expires). I haven't
               | yet studied the Orca codebase deeply though.
               | 
               | Blind people have strong feelings about speech
               | synthesizers. One of the most beloved speech synthesizers
               | among blind power users was developed mostly in the mid
               | to late 90s and last updated in 2002; unfortunately, it's
               | closed source. I'm actually pretty comfortable with
               | eSpeak, or more precisely the espeak-ng fork, and I know
               | I'm not the only one. Many of us value consistent
               | pronunciation and intelligibility at high speeds over how
               | human-sounding the voice is.
               | 
               | Document conversion is something that my new company is
               | working on. I might do a Show HN on that sometime.
        
       ___________________________________________________________________
       (page generated 2021-05-07 23:01 UTC)