[HN Gopher] ClearURLs - automatically remove tracking elements f...
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       ClearURLs - automatically remove tracking elements from URLs
        
       Author : stanislavb
       Score  : 655 points
       Date   : 2021-05-05 07:46 UTC (15 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (github.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (github.com)
        
       | FabHK wrote:
       | Is there something similar for Safari (on macOS/iOS)?
        
         | rexf wrote:
         | Not the same (mac app vs browser extension). I released a mac
         | app to clean clipboard links
         | https://apps.apple.com/us/app/id1528299767
         | 
         | With Apple's Universal Clipboard, you can clean links copied on
         | your iPhone
        
         | rckt wrote:
         | I'm using this one: https://github.com/Sh1d0w/clean-links
        
       | scottmcleod wrote:
       | Thanks for screwing over marketers for no reason.
        
         | sodality2 wrote:
         | The reason is avoiding tracking, whether you agree with it or
         | not, though.
        
         | zymhan wrote:
         | If you think user privacy is "no reason", this thinking is
         | exactly the problem with the online advertising.
         | 
         | Privacy is a right. Ad-tracking is not.
        
       | Black101 wrote:
       | Firefox should implement this.
        
       | BerislavLopac wrote:
       | I wrote a little bookmarklet that serves me pretty well for
       | similar purposes:                   javascript:window.location=wi
       | ndow.location.href.replace(/\?([^#]*)/,function(_,s){s=s.split('&
       | ').filter(function(v){return(!/^utm_/.test(v))}).join('&');return
       | (s?'?'+s:'')});
       | 
       | It's much limited as it focuses on Google's links, but it works
       | good enough for many cases.
        
       | DangerousPie wrote:
       | This is a neat extension but I think we should acknowledge that
       | stripping parameters like these from affiliate links is going to
       | cause major problems for websites that are financed through
       | affiliate revenue, even if they are open and honest about it.
        
         | lenwood wrote:
         | Your point is valid. Any business model that is dependent on
         | collecting visitor data is flawed and its appropriate for these
         | companies to either change or wither. I hear the concern, but
         | IMO the need for privacy is greater.
        
       | brigandish wrote:
       | I like this idea. I've been using a bit of Ruby wrapped into my
       | shell to remove Facebook's tracking from links[1] but it's nice
       | to have so many in one place that we all can contribute to.
       | 
       | It seems the interesting bit (for me) is in the Rules[2] repo.
       | 
       | [1]
       | https://gist.github.com/yb66/d39109df620ab1db2a46c943111c31d...
       | 
       | [2] https://github.com/ClearURLs/Rules
        
       | snitko wrote:
       | Oh god, thanks you, something at least. That's gonna save us all.
        
       | Trias11 wrote:
       | Can it dig into tracking redirects and extracts original URL?
        
       | EamonnMR wrote:
       | Would be neat if it also removed the anchor gunk google is adding
       | that highlights the specific word you searched for. Very
       | obnoxious when you're trying to find a wikipedia page to link on
       | mobile.
        
       | ummm_pete wrote:
       | The utm params are sometimes used to make a site free when they
       | come from a certain source or might have some other hidden
       | functionality (even though that might not be best practice). I
       | wouldn't use this.
        
       | avinashjn wrote:
       | Hope it get rids of google wrapping URLs in emails
        
       | codingdave wrote:
       | I would love to see an 'educational' mode on this - rather than
       | just removing the tracking elements, put some info on-screen that
       | shows what was removed and why, so people can use this as a tool
       | to learn more about what types of tracking exist online and how
       | common it is. Hopefully that would lead to a more knowledgeable
       | end user community online and we can have more nuanced
       | discussions in the future about where tracking is benign, and
       | where it is not.
        
         | ycombinete wrote:
         | I agree. I uninstalled this add-on precisely because I couldn't
         | quite figure out what it was doing or where it was doing it.
         | Unlike an add blocker there's very little tangible difference
         | when it's on or off
        
         | uo21tp5hoyg wrote:
         | Not exactly what you requested but there's the ability to log
         | all requests that are processed: if you click the extension
         | icon and then under "Configs" enable logging, then at the
         | bottom of the ui there's a button for checking the logs. This
         | will show you the before and after processing urls, the rules
         | that were triggered, and when.
        
       | yoelo wrote:
       | I didn't care when it was only utm_ paramters, but the incredible
       | amount of garbage that facebook throws in made me install the
       | plugin
        
       | aembleton wrote:
       | I wish Signal would implement this so that by sharing a link, it
       | auto removes the tracking elements.
        
       | tomudding wrote:
       | Lovely extension, some discussions about its functionality can be
       | found in this thread [0] after the removal of the extension from
       | Chrome's Web Store.
       | 
       | One things I noticed is that it can be too aggressive from time
       | to time. I encountered this "issue" when creating a Bitwarden
       | account, I was unable to verify my e-mail address because
       | ClearURLs was (unbeknownst to me) removing some of the parameters
       | from the activation URL. While similar cases will most likely not
       | be frequent, it can be really frustrating to determine why
       | something does not work (also applies to ad blockers).
       | 
       | [0]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26564638
        
       | ummm_pete wrote:
       | UTM params are sometimes used to make a site free or might have
       | some other hidden functionality (even if this may not be best
       | practice). I wouldn't use this.
        
       | secondcoming wrote:
       | Are there any legal issues with tampering with URL parameters?
        
       | pellias wrote:
       | They really need to allow whitelist, i uninstalled because some
       | sites cannot function with it and there is no way to whitelist.
        
         | NeckBeardPrince wrote:
         | Same, we have a hosted Gitlab instance and with it installed I
         | can't even switch branches in the UI.
        
       | amelius wrote:
       | Does GDPR allow these kind of "cookies"?
        
         | ok123456 wrote:
         | Tracking URLs like this started becoming more and more common
         | after the GDPR because they don't fit their definition of a
         | cookie.
        
           | anoncake wrote:
           | There is no GDPR definition of a cookie. It doesn't care how
           | you track people.
        
       | wackget wrote:
       | It's ironic that the example URLs on the Firefox Addons page are
       | actually tracked by Mozilla via
       | `https://outgoing.prod.mozaws.net`.
       | 
       | I assume this extension doesn't deal with that problem (redirect-
       | type tracking URLs).
        
       | crazygringo wrote:
       | I love this just for the usability _alone_ , never mind being
       | anti-tracking.
       | 
       | I'm tired of every time I want to share a product page or post a
       | URL or something, of having to strip 300 friggin' nonsense
       | characters from the end of it.
        
       | vzaliva wrote:
       | I have a problem accessing video file shared on google drive with
       | this extension enabled. Disabling it helped.
        
       | ShaneXie wrote:
       | I think one thing need to be clarified is Tracking Link !==
       | Affiliatized Link. If the extension get rid of all the affiliate
       | info in the link, it can destroy the income of the youtubers who
       | put affiliate links in their content.
        
         | Khalos wrote:
         | It looks like the add-on has an option to "Allow referral
         | marketing" which is off by default. If you install this add-on
         | and feel like enabling this, it looks like you can.
         | 
         | That said, it still results in some level of tracking and given
         | the add-on's purpose, having to opt in to affiliate links seems
         | like the right choice.
        
         | asdff wrote:
         | There is an "allow referral marketing" toggle in the settings
         | that I assumes keeps these sorts of links in play.
        
       | jordoh wrote:
       | It should be noted that this extension strips ETag headers from
       | all responses by default, which can break sites in surprising
       | ways. As a developer of a web application that relies on ETag
       | headers for vital functionality, I see not-infrequent support
       | inquiries from ClearURLs users who don't understand the technical
       | ramifications of this feature - nor do they understand why so
       | many of the websites they use are so broken.
        
         | Khalos wrote:
         | Have you considered using something other than ETag for your
         | use case? It seems like ETag been compromised by trackers, and
         | unfortunately this is why we can't have nice things.
        
           | jordoh wrote:
           | We use the ETag header to make use of browser caching - not
           | just for performance, but as a component of offline support.
           | Yes, we could add an additional header with the same
           | information to work around this specific extension for
           | application-specific functionality using it, but that would
           | leave the browser-based features broken.
           | 
           | While the ETag header may have been usable for cross site
           | tracking at some point in the past [1], browser caches are
           | isolated per-origin in Firefox, so there's no longer a cross-
           | site tracking concern. That leaves it usable to identify you
           | across sessions only in a first-party context, just like
           | cookies, IP addresses (to a lesser extent), the Last-Modified
           | header, and any number of other identification techniques
           | ClearURLs doesn't block.
           | 
           | [1] I'd be interested to see any credible evidence of ETag
           | headers being used for tracking in the wild - I've only seen
           | theorizing that it _could_ be used as such, prior to cache
           | isolation being implemented in Firefox and Chrome.
        
             | Khalos wrote:
             | According to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HTTP_ETag#Tracki
             | ng_using_ETags
             | 
             | > ETags can be used to track unique users, as HTTP cookies
             | are increasingly being deleted by privacy-aware users. In
             | July 2011, Ashkan Soltani and a team of researchers at UC
             | Berkeley reported that a number of websites, including
             | Hulu, were using ETags for tracking purposes. Hulu and
             | KISSmetrics have both ceased "respawning" as of 29 July
             | 2011, as KISSmetrics and over 20 of its clients are facing
             | a class-action lawsuit over the use of "undeletable"
             | tracking cookies partially involving the use of ETags.
             | 
             | It appears that there have been at least a few cases of
             | this in the wild.
             | 
             | The main distinction (at least to me) between ETag and the
             | other tracking methods you mention is that ETag doesn't
             | appear to be easily clearable by a user (although that
             | sounds like something browsers should fix if they haven't
             | already).
             | 
             | It's unfortunate that features like this end up getting co-
             | opted by trackers, which leads to breaking legitimate use
             | cases like your app in the process.
        
               | jordoh wrote:
               | That's certainly credible evidence for past use I
               | overlooked, though it remains unlikely to be useful with
               | the advent of per-origin cache isolation.
               | 
               | The Last-Modified header can be used in exactly the same
               | way, and isn't blocked by this extension, which harkens
               | back to my original point: this is an extension that
               | appears to see significant use by non-technical users,
               | yet it breaks a browser feature by default. There are
               | plenty of other methods of identifying a unique user that
               | it doesn't prevent, so this seems like a pretty
               | unexpected feature users should take note of.
        
       | qwertox wrote:
       | Thanks for sharing. I've always looked at the URLs I'm about to
       | click, thinking how nice it would be to get rid of all that
       | stuff.
        
       | sdevonoes wrote:
       | I like it, but I'm afraid companies would just change the way it
       | is currently done: from query parameters to encoded urls.
       | Example:
       | 
       | Before
       | 
       | https://example.com/item/4000336900709?spm=a2g01.126...
       | 
       | After:
       | 
       | https://example.com/item/4000336900709000044323234
       | 
       | Now the tracking parameters are all encoded in the last segment
       | of the url. The backend just has to decode it accordingly and it
       | will have both the item id and the bag of tracking parameters.
        
         | contravariant wrote:
         | That and in cases where they link to third parties they now
         | apparently use such a tracking link but with the orignal URL as
         | name.
         | 
         | So something would look like:
         | 
         | https://externalwebsite.example/some-article
         | 
         | but would link to
         | 
         | https://example.com/someone-clicked-on-link-id-123456
        
           | Seirdy wrote:
           | This, AMP, and a thousand other things are making it hard to
           | share canonical URLs. Two workarounds:
           | 
           | 1. Find "rel=canonical" in the page's source.
           | 
           | 2. Look up the page/article title on your favorite search
           | engine.
        
       | thinkloop wrote:
       | The clincher for me was:
       | 
       | > Prevents Google from rewriting the search results (to include
       | tracking elements)
       | 
       | How infuraiting. Now sites open without my having to pay google
       | 1s-2s for them to log me.
        
       | anticristi wrote:
       | While I greatly value my privacy to the point where I donate to
       | noyb.eu, removing utm campaign tags feels too much. Those do not
       | commonly contain private information. I believe that marketers
       | should feel free to use those to measure the effectiveness of
       | their campaigns, instead of relying on more privacy-intrusive and
       | opaque methods (e.g. cookies, fingerprinting, IP address
       | collecting, etc.).
        
         | maple3142 wrote:
         | I usually removes those parameters manually when I want to
         | share the url to my friends, so it is quite useful for me.
        
           | dlowe-net wrote:
           | I use the Linksnip chrome extension for that. It also
           | shortens the url for a small number of sites.
        
           | StavrosK wrote:
           | Interesting how we wouldn't really mind the parameters if
           | sites took the time to clean up after themselves instead of
           | leaving them in the URL.
        
             | teachingassist wrote:
             | The fact that they are in the URL serves an additional
             | purpose for these sites - to identify who is sharing
             | exactly what, and with whom.
             | 
             | (I've noticed that TikTok does this explicitly, providing a
             | different short URL for each share request - it's clean,
             | which makes them easier to share without blocking out a
             | whole chat, but still not wanted)
             | 
             | It's not that I don't mind the parameters, it's that _I
             | also mind_ the URL tracking. And I can do something
             | directly about the URL tracking.
        
               | judge2020 wrote:
               | I doubt that's the case - if you come from Twitter, you
               | sharing the same link with 100 people probably skews
               | their data. I just don't think it's that big of a problem
               | yet for marketers to ask their devs to remove utm
               | parameters after they're logged.
        
               | Hello71 wrote:
               | it skews the data _in the right direction_ (from their
               | point of view). if you saw it on twitter, and shared it
               | with 100 people, then (from their perspective) they
               | should spend more time advertising on twitter.
        
         | selfhoster11 wrote:
         | UTM tags are unsightly. I always strip everything but the core
         | part of a URL before sharing.
        
         | reaperducer wrote:
         | A utm tag isn't the only way to measure the effectiveness of
         | marketing. It's just the laziest way.
         | 
         | And once the adtech companies notice that every tag except utm
         | is being stripped, you can bet that utms will start being
         | stuffed with tracking.
        
           | sagarm wrote:
           | If link stripping becomes common, links will start becoming
           | unique. This performance information is just too important to
           | running a business.
        
         | theshrike79 wrote:
         | The issue is this:
         | 
         | https://aliexpress.com/item/4000336900709.html?spm=a2g01.126...
         | 
         | vs
         | 
         | https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000336900709.html
         | 
         | Both take you to the same page.
         | 
         | URLs, especially when clicked from ads tend to have a HUGE
         | amount of extra crap that's in no way needed for any kind of
         | functionality.
        
           | grishka wrote:
           | If you've clicked an ad, you've already lost to marketers. If
           | you've seen one, you've lost too.
        
             | matheusmoreira wrote:
             | Indeed. We should just block all marketing, absolutely no
             | exceptions. Drive their return on investment as close to
             | zero as humanly possible.
        
             | theshrike79 wrote:
             | _I_ know how to remove the crap when sharing the link.
             | Other people don't. This is why we need extensions like
             | this.
             | 
             | It's not fun to get a 2048 character long URL to a product
             | linked to me on mobile, where it literally doesn't fit on
             | the screen all at once. =)
        
           | scottmcleod wrote:
           | Its not "crap" its literally the same parameters to
           | understand where the traffic comes from.
        
             | ivanche wrote:
             | AKA crap. When you walk into the store, does the clerk know
             | which street have you used to drive to the store? Do you
             | tell him on purpose even if he didn't ask? I didn't think
             | so.
        
           | dredmorbius wrote:
           | This is a case where using HN's "code" feature can help
           | 
           | The first link is:                 https://aliexpress.com/ite
           | m/4000336900709.html?spm=a2g01.12617084.fdpcl001.8.2665mpnYmp
           | nYMH&gps-id=5547572&scm=1007.19201.130907.0&scm_id=1007.19201
           | .130907.0&scm-url=1007.19201.130907.0&pvid=65430901-7ec6-4584
           | -a620-4618974e03ae
           | 
           | The second:
           | https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000336900709.html
           | 
           | (HN normally truncates links to ... 60 characters, it seems.
        
         | matheusmoreira wrote:
         | > I believe that marketers should feel free to use those to
         | measure the effectiveness of their campaigns
         | 
         | I don't. I believe marketers should have exactly zero ways to
         | measure the effectiveness of their mind hacking efforts. Any
         | data they try and collect should have negative value by virtue
         | of being completely randomized by the browser.
         | 
         | Actually I believe marketers shouldn't even exist. Nothing they
         | say is trustworthy by virtue of conflict of interest. The
         | internet would be much better off without these constant
         | attempts to subvert it for their purposes.
        
           | scottmcleod wrote:
           | Youre a troll. Where do you work? Bet you wouldn't have a job
           | without marketers...
        
             | [deleted]
        
             | [deleted]
        
             | kroltan wrote:
             | Ad hominem and inconsequential, just because one is
             | benefited by the existence of marketers does not mean they
             | have to approve of their existence.
        
           | myfavoritedog wrote:
           | ... and I thought I was harsh with marketers. I don't want
           | their calls, their unsolicited email, etc. I don't want them
           | to have my personal information or be able to buy or sell my
           | personal information. But I don't begrudge their ability to
           | get word out for their product or service while funding
           | content that I would otherwise get nickeled and dimed for or
           | not have produced at all.
           | 
           |  _Nothing they say is trustworthy by virtue of conflict of
           | interest_
           | 
           | Everyone who says anything has that same conflict of
           | interest. You do, I do, marketers do, salespeople do,
           | engineers do, politicians do, scientists do. Completely
           | dismissing value of an entire profession based upon self
           | interest doesn't have a limiting principle.
           | 
           | Marketing, even if you naively limit the term to just cover
           | advertising, is a rich and useful function of capitalism and
           | society in general. The key to dealing with it is in
           | protecting basic freedoms like a right to privacy.
        
             | matheusmoreira wrote:
             | > But I don't begrudge their ability to get word out for
             | their product or service
             | 
             | I do because in 99% of cases it's a deliberate waste of my
             | time and attention.
             | 
             | > Everyone who says anything has that same conflict of
             | interest.
             | 
             | I don't think so. The information I receive from friends
             | and peers is far more trustworthy. With marketing, I get
             | selective truths at best.
             | 
             | Lots and lots of people _on this site_ admit to adding
             | "reddit" to their searches when looking for product
             | reviews. Why? Because they don't trust marketers. We want
             | real information from real people with real experiences,
             | not some paid-for narrative. We especially want to know the
             | risks, the negatives and the cons, precisely the kind of
             | information marketers want to bury.
        
           | sdevonoes wrote:
           | I agree. I don't think marketers are trustworthy: their sole
           | purpose is to "hack" my mind in order to buy stuff, so sure
           | it's a job someone has to do but if I can avoid marketers to
           | get more data from me, I'm in.
        
           | HDMI_Cable wrote:
           | That can be simplified even further: If their incentives
           | don't align with mine at least tangentially, then I'm not
           | using their product. Out goes marketers, social media, and
           | most ads.
        
           | schwinn140 wrote:
           | Wow, thats a bit much.
           | 
           | Think of your favorite site with the best experience
           | possible. That is possible because people tested countless
           | times what works, what didn't, what is the most efficient
           | path to a rewarding UX, and so on.
           | 
           | Yes, there are a ton of garbage lazy marketers in the world.
           | Saying that marketing shouldn't exist would immediately
           | render every refined UX you have navigated, purchased from,
           | and or loyally stream content from.
           | 
           | Throwing out the good because of the bad is too far of a
           | reach IMO. Anywho, that's just little old me and my opinion
           | doesn't mean much.
        
             | leipert wrote:
             | I disagree. You can improve your product without the
             | extensive use of trackers, especially external ones. Hire
             | UX and PM that know what they are doing, do UX research,
             | talk to your customers, do competitive analysis.
             | 
             | Just accruing swaths of data doesn't help, you need to
             | interpret it correctly. I think qualitative data will bring
             | you a long way. Once you need to do A/B testing, you can
             | also do it privacy friendly.
             | 
             | If you market your product and run a campaign? Why not
             | offer discount codes or something to figure out how you got
             | them.
        
             | Seirdy wrote:
             | > Think of your favorite site with the best experience
             | possible. That is possible because people tested countless
             | times what works, what didn't, what is the most efficient
             | path to a rewarding UX, and so on.
             | 
             | Funny; those kinds of sites are my _least_ favorite. All
             | those colors and buttons are an information overload, and
             | the animations make my laptop fans spin like crazy. Not
             | everyone bought their computer under a decade ago.
             | 
             | Please, blue links and black text aren't evil. We need to
             | make interfaces functional and _stop_ rather than
             | continuously A /B test them to maximize addictiveness
             | ("engagement").
        
         | axiosgunnar wrote:
         | I agree, and I wonder if over the long term, an economy where
         | no tracking is possible might not perform as well as an economy
         | that tracks everything, for knowledge means better resource
         | allocation.
         | 
         | (and then the tracking economy, let's say China for example,
         | will just steamroll our economies. This is what I'm worried
         | about, in a vacuum a slower developing but ad/tracking-free
         | society would be preferable of course.)
         | 
         | Of course I despise all ads as much as the next hacker here on
         | HN, I just wonder sometimes if they're a necessary evil.
         | 
         | So in the end I'm inclined to agree with your nuanced ,,some
         | general statistical gathering is OK, just no fingerprinting
         | etc".
        
           | matheusmoreira wrote:
           | > an economy where no tracking is possible might not perform
           | as well as an economy that tracks everything
           | 
           | Oh well. Just let the economy perform slightly worse then.
           | 
           | > for knowledge means better resource allocation
           | 
           | Who cares about some corporation's resource allocation?
           | That's their problem to solve. We should be caring about all
           | the people whose privacy they are violating instead.
           | 
           | If they want to allocate resources efficiently, they should
           | be required to do it in a way that doesn't invade anyone's
           | privacy. If that means they'll make less money so be it.
        
           | jxf wrote:
           | > an economy where no tracking is possible might not perform
           | as well as an economy that tracks everything, for knowledge
           | means better resource allocation.
           | 
           | Such an economy is still very possible: just pay people for
           | their data. Giving it away isn't economically efficient and
           | imposes significant negative externalities, as we've seen.
        
           | bigfudge wrote:
           | I'm not disagreeing with the possibility, but this seems like
           | a speculation on a possible risk. I can think of lots of
           | reasons why this might not happen too... but the privacy
           | invasion is happening now and is a direct threat to our
           | public life. I think we should focus on the most pressing
           | problem first.
        
         | bottled_poe wrote:
         | Nah, the industry started a war on consumers. That's what they
         | are getting.
        
           | samcheng wrote:
           | As someone who is (sometimes militantly) pro-customer, I
           | don't think tracking parameters are "war" - they are just a
           | tool used to understand visitor flow, and ideally improve the
           | visitor experience.
           | 
           | They are fundamentally first-party analytics - they show up
           | in the server logs of the site visited, and that site needed
           | to craft the link in order to place the parameters in the
           | first place. There's a big difference between URL parameters
           | and e.g. cookies attached to third-party javascript.
           | 
           | I definitely support the freedom of people to remove these
           | URL parameters if they want. But it's not fair to classify
           | them as a "war" - they are a tool used by scrupulous
           | marketers, too.
        
             | VortexDream wrote:
             | I think the problem is that it's not possible for end users
             | to know what's happening with the tracked data. Is the
             | company on the other end creating a shadow profile of every
             | single user (like Facebook)? Are they selling the data to
             | companies that do user profiling? No idea. Who am I
             | supposed to trust?
             | 
             | Even if there are scrupulous entities, the harm caused by
             | the unscrupulous ones overshadows them.
        
               | sagarm wrote:
               | Companies can only log information about your interaction
               | with their sites. With very few exceptions, that just
               | means on whatevercompany.com. Basically, they only have
               | the data you explicitly give them.
               | 
               | In the case of some large sites that provide pervasive
               | services like FB, Twitter, and Google, you interact with
               | their sites incidentally as you surf in the internet.
               | It's these sites that are a potential privacy risk IMO.
        
           | slver wrote:
           | How is campaign tracking a "war on consumers"
        
             | medstrom wrote:
             | I guess they're anthropomorphizing "the industry", treating
             | all of them as responsible for what any of them do. But to
             | steelman this viewpoint, industry should be unsurprised
             | that consumers are filtering out UTM in the process of
             | filtering everything, just as consumers should be
             | unsurprised that the industry does what it does.
        
             | matheusmoreira wrote:
             | Consumers value their privacy and don't want to be tracked.
             | Adtech keeps insisting on tracking users without consent.
             | So users develop tools that neutralize the tracking. So
             | adtech develops counter-measures. So users develop counter-
             | counter-measures.
             | 
             | And on and on it goes.
        
               | slver wrote:
               | Consumers don't want to be tracked because it's become a
               | meme to dislike tracking.
               | 
               | If you think about it... what's the problem with a URL
               | tracking which advertiser you came from? Why would you
               | insist that it be a secret which ad you clicked to come
               | to a site?
               | 
               | This tool is removing URL parameters some of which are
               | absolutely harmless and not violating anyone's "privacy".
               | We really need to draw the line somewhere and decide what
               | the heck means "privacy" at this point, because
               | everything can be interpreted as violation of privacy.
               | 
               | Likewise, are those site owners allowed to exist, or
               | should they just offer content at a loss, and pay
               | millions of ads, and have no even clue which ads worked
               | and which didn't? And when there's a paywall of course
               | everyone is SUPER ANNOYED by the paywall.
               | 
               | So to recap, the public wants absolutely everything, for
               | free, and they want to disrupt as much as possible from
               | the site's mechanism to understand what the other side of
               | this communication is and what they want.
        
               | matheusmoreira wrote:
               | > it's become a meme to dislike tracking
               | 
               | Good.
               | 
               | > what's the problem with a URL tracking which advertiser
               | you came from?
               | 
               | It's additional bits of information used to identify me.
               | 
               | > We really need to draw the line somewhere and decide
               | what the heck means "privacy" at this point, because
               | everything can be interpreted as violation of privacy.
               | 
               | Okay. If I explicitly give you information and you use it
               | for my benefit alone, it's not a violation of privacy.
               | Everything else is.
               | 
               | Concrete example: people provide their addresses to
               | companies so they can have packages delivered. This is
               | obviously legitimate. Selling my address to marketers so
               | they can spam my inbox with unwanted ads is obviously
               | unacceptable.
               | 
               | Placing identifying information in URLs is unacceptable
               | simply because I didn't explicitly choose to reveal that
               | information. I don't even care if it's harmless, the
               | sheer _audacity_ of these people is offensive.
               | 
               | > This tool is removing URL parameters some of which are
               | absolutely harmless and not violating anyone's "privacy".
               | 
               | Yeah, I'm not risking it. They'll probably find a way to
               | abuse this information if they haven't already. Marketers
               | are not supposed to get any data whatsoever. I'm
               | increasingly convinced marketing shouldn't even exist to
               | begin with.
               | 
               | > should they just offer content at a loss, and pay
               | millions of ads, and have no even clue which ads worked
               | and which didn't?
               | 
               | Don't pay for ads in the first place.
               | 
               | > And when there's a paywall of course everyone is SUPER
               | ANNOYED by the paywall.
               | 
               | That's okay.
               | 
               | > the public wants absolutely everything, for free, and
               | they want to disrupt as much as possible from the site's
               | mechanism to understand what the other side of this
               | communication is and what they want.
               | 
               | I guess. Just return 402 Payment Required if people are
               | expected to pay. We refuse to be the product.
        
         | rplnt wrote:
         | That's not the only issue. The ids are then fed back into the
         | facebook.
         | 
         | Facebook can use it to link contacts together. I get a share
         | link, it gives it an ID, I send it to someone, they open it and
         | now they have linked my account with their account. Same works
         | if I click on a page and get the ID, share just that page, and
         | someone clicks it (and there's some fb element on the page).
         | 
         | Now if several users a day share a link here on HN, facebook
         | will know about us as belonging to a certain group.
        
           | lmkg wrote:
           | The GP mentioned UTMs specifically, which are coarse-grained.
           | Generally all links in a campaign will share the same UTM
           | parameters. Sometimes different sizes or A/B variants will
           | have distinguishing values. But as a matter of course, these
           | are not unique to the user. Their primary purpose is to
           | _aggregate_ data, not to distinguish it.
           | 
           | This is different than the type of tracking you're talking
           | about. ID-type parameters like gclid, dclid, and fbclid are
           | all unique to the _ad impression_ , and tied to the
           | individual that ad was served to. Which means they can tie it
           | back to other data sources they have about the individual.
           | Like social graph data for Facebook, or demographic or
           | interests data for other advertiser networks.
           | 
           | Personally I care about ID parameters a lot, and UTM-type
           | parameters not at all. But that's just me.
        
         | cyborgx7 wrote:
         | Every time any kind of measure to improve people's browsing
         | experience is posted here someone comes along and explains how
         | this one is too much. But they are always wrong. There is no
         | "going too far" in optimizing the browser for the people who
         | are using it.
        
         | DangerousPie wrote:
         | I don't mind people stripping these tags manually for link
         | sharing, but stripping them across the board would be a major
         | issue for website that finance themselves through affiliate
         | links. Suddenly your referrals are no longer tracked and your
         | main source of revenue dies up.
        
           | thrwaeasddsaf wrote:
           | > I don't mind people stripping these tags manually for link
           | sharing, but stripping them across the board would be a major
           | issue for website that finance themselves through affiliate
           | links.
           | 
           | Good riddance. Affiliate schemes just encourage people to
           | spam low quality content full of affiliate links to products
           | that are rarely good.
        
         | throwaway81523 wrote:
         | I always remove them. They're like referer headers. Where the
         | visitor came from is just like any other info that might be
         | useful to the site operator, but is really not any of their
         | business unless the visitor voluntarily discloses it.
        
       | julienreszka wrote:
       | This is going to break so many web apps.
        
       | gdsdfe wrote:
       | It's sad that nowadays we need at least a dozen of add-ons just
       | to have a decent browsing experience on the web
        
         | slver wrote:
         | Tracking data in URLs doesn't make your browsing experience
         | less decent.
        
           | gdsdfe wrote:
           | When all websites are tracking you and keeping tabs on your
           | that's hardly decent
        
           | ajdude wrote:
           | It does when you like sharing links with your friends. I
           | would have to manually clean these up before.
        
             | slver wrote:
             | Not all tracking is user-specific, but you do raise an
             | interesting point, how to (thinking as a site owner) remove
             | personal info from the URL, but still pass that info around
             | locally.
             | 
             | Cookies is one way (if we stick to the domain), possibly
             | using sidecar AJAX requests and localState is another.
             | 
             | Or maybe we can leave it all in the URL, but encrypt it
             | with a key in a cookie, thus without the cookie, the info
             | is recognized as foreign when passed around. Hmm yeah, not
             | bad.
        
       | Saint_Genet wrote:
       | I built something like this years ago for personal use in
       | greasemonkey with a bunch of hardcoded common tacker tags.
       | Greasemonkey is the only thing I really misss since switching to
       | Safari.
        
       | luke2m wrote:
       | We need something like this in email and chat clients for those
       | who always copy and paste their entire url bar.
        
         | hollander wrote:
         | You can rightclick a link in your email, copy it, then paste it
         | in the browser bar, remove the unwanted stuff. A lot of work,
         | especially if you need to do this many times a day.
        
       | marban wrote:
       | Related, if you're looking to clean urls on the backend, here's
       | my current pattern used on https://upstract.com and some other
       | news aggregators I've built:
       | 
       | startswith: 'utm_', 'ga_', 'hmb_', 'ic_', 'fb_', 'pd_rd', 'ref_',
       | 'share_', 'client_', 'service_'
       | 
       | or has: '$/ref@amazon.', '.tsrc', 'ICID', '_xtd',
       | '_encoding@amazon.', '_hsenc', '_openstat', 'ab',
       | 'action_object_map', 'action_ref_map', 'action_type_map', 'amp',
       | 'arc404', 'affil', 'affiliate', 'app_id', 'awc', 'bfsplash',
       | 'bftwuk', 'campaign', 'camp', 'cip', 'cmp', 'CMP', 'cmpid',
       | 'curator', 'cvid@bing.com', 'efg', 'ei@google.', 'fbclid',
       | 'fbplay', 'feature@youtube.com', 'feedName', 'feedType',
       | 'form@bing.com', 'forYou', 'fsrc', 'ftcamp', 'ga_campaign',
       | 'ga_content', 'ga_medium', 'ga_place', 'ga_source', 'ga_term',
       | 'gi', 'gclid@youtube.com', 'gs_l', 'gws_rd@google.', 'igshid',
       | 'instanceId', 'instanceid', 'kw@youtube.com', 'maca', 'mbid',
       | 'mkt_tok', 'mod', 'ncid', 'ocid', 'offer', 'origin',
       | 'partner','pq@bing.com', 'print', 'printable', 'psc@amazon.',
       | 'qs@bing.com', 'rebelltitem', 'ref', 'referer', 'referrer',
       | 'rss', 'ru', 'sc@bing.com', 'scrolla', 'sei@google.', 'sh',
       | 'share', 'sk@bing.com', 'source', 'sp@bing.com', 'sref', 'srnd',
       | 'supported_service_name', 'tag', 'taid', 'time_continue', 'tsrc',
       | 'twsrc', 'twcamp', 'twclid', 'tweetembed', 'twterm', 'twgr',
       | 'utm', 'ved@google.', 'via', 'xid', 'yclid', 'yptr'
       | 
       | Edit: Will turn this into a Gist at some point.
        
         | pushcx wrote:
         | Thanks for sharing this. We filter some of these from
         | submissions to Lobsters (https://github.com/lobsters/lobsters/b
         | lob/f25fc62d7603c1bf70...) and I'd be glad to expand it.
         | 
         | In your second list, are those the names of query params? I'm
         | puzzled by the inclusion of @ in many of them, maybe you're
         | saying that '_encoding' is a tracking param on any amazon
         | domain, 'sk' is a tracking param on bing.com? What does the $
         | in the first entry indicate?
        
           | mhio wrote:
           | Here's a (less extensive) code example from Tracking Token
           | Stripper:
           | 
           | https://github.com/jparise/chrome-utm-
           | stripper/blob/0d16a13d...
        
         | vmateixeira wrote:
         | Thanks for sharing
        
         | werds wrote:
         | I don't see the point in blocking utm_ query string variables?
         | they don't give up any personal information about you, they
         | just help inform the landing site about which channels of
         | marketing are working more effectively than others. This isn't
         | about personal data, removing the UTM codes isnt helping
         | anybody, it just means that the sites don't know where best to
         | spend their money on marketing and ultimately results in seeing
         | more ads in more irrelevant contexts in the future.
        
           | gjs278 wrote:
           | good. I want the advertisers to lose money and not even get
           | where I clicked out of it.
        
           | Sephr wrote:
           | Interest-based and cohort-based targeting is anti-privacy.
           | Sites can make do with contextually targeted ads only.
        
             | unilynx wrote:
             | Attribution (figuring out where your ads are being clicked)
             | has nothing to do with targetting.
        
               | werds wrote:
               | thank you! somebody gets it!
        
               | kiwijamo wrote:
               | So why bother collecting the data if it can't be used? I
               | can't see ad firms collecting data they won't use for
               | tracking.
        
       | mherrmann wrote:
       | Stumbled on an example just today: click on a link in the Gmail
       | Android app, get redirected to google.com/url?...
       | 
       | Great extension idea.
        
       | zibzab wrote:
       | Doesn't ublock provide something similar?
       | 
       | If this one is better, any chance supporting it in ublock?
        
         | ronjouch wrote:
         | See sibling comment from gorhill.
        
       | U8dcN7vx wrote:
       | Alas it is just another battle (not initial, there have been
       | others) in a war of escalation.
        
       | xil3 wrote:
       | I'm concerned that this might also remove referrer codes; unless
       | it's smart enough to distinguish. I imagine some of them might be
       | quite cryptic.
        
       | greggturkington wrote:
       | Don't remove them, stuff them with dummy values. It's way more
       | fun, Chrome extension incoming
        
         | yabones wrote:
         | Yes! I would love some casual data poisoning to ruin some data
         | analysts week.
        
           | asdff wrote:
           | They have mountains and mountains of real data signal to
           | drown out your noise in the outliers
        
       | l1am0 wrote:
       | Shameless self plug: My service https://unshort.link does this as
       | well and also unshortens shortlinks to show you where they are
       | pointing to :D
       | 
       | Open Source and Free to Use
        
       | pcsalad wrote:
       | Thanks for shining this on me, no more UTM_CAMPAIGN_SOURCE!
        
       | ChrisGranger wrote:
       | AdGuard https://adguard.com/ and uBlock Origin
       | https://github.com/gorhill/uBlock have URL parameter removal
       | functionality as well.
        
         | smnscu wrote:
         | Thanks to your comment and the sibling, I found this
         | https://old.reddit.com/r/uBlockOrigin/comments/bif6wp/can_ub...
        
         | AndrewDucker wrote:
         | I can't find this in uBlock Origin. Can you point me at it?
        
           | ronjouch wrote:
           | Searching a bit, I find in
           | https://github.com/uBlockOrigin/uBlock-issues/issues/760 and
           | https://github.com/uBlockOrigin/uBlock-issues/issues/1356
           | that uBlock Origin offers filter functions $queryprune and
           | $removeparam .
           | 
           | Didn't know uBlock Origin has this, giving it a try. Thanks
           | ChrisGranger!
        
           | gorhill wrote:
           | This was implemented as per discussion with AdGuard's
           | people[1].
           | 
           | For now I know of two lists from prominent maintainers which
           | purpose is to remove unneeded URL parameters:
           | 
           | - https://filters.adtidy.org/android/filters/17.txt
           | 
           | - https://raw.githubusercontent.com/DandelionSprout/adfilt/ma
           | s...
           | 
           | There are ongoing discussions to include the first one as a
           | stock list (i.e. present in "Filter lists"), though not
           | enabled by default for now.
           | 
           | Addendum: to be clear, this is not a replacement for
           | ClearURLs. ClearURLs has more capabilities then just removing
           | query parameters from the URLs of outgoing network requests.
           | 
           | ---
           | 
           | [1] https://github.com/uBlockOrigin/uBlock-
           | issues/issues/1356#is...
        
             | ben509 wrote:
             | Thank you so much! I can finally remove those stupid
             | highlights that show up when searching Python docs.
             | docs.python.org$removeparam=highlight
        
             | ronjouch wrote:
             | Thanks gorhill! Testing these lists as replacement to
             | ClearURLs now. Hope they make their way into the easy-to-
             | enable default/stock lists.
             | 
             | One by-the-way question: how can I "discover" such 3rd-
             | party lists? Is there a place doing lists centralization /
             | aggregation / recommendation?
        
               | gorhill wrote:
               | There is https://filterlists.com/
        
       | the_gipsy wrote:
       | Sad that it's not (yet?) available for Firefox Android.
       | 
       | I'm glad that uBlock is, everytime I browse with Chrome, which
       | doesn't have extensiona at all, it seems like a dystopia.
        
       | alkonaut wrote:
       | This will just lead to sites removing canonical urls from
       | marketing entirely. Theere will be no
       | somesite.whatever/books/123?campaign=1 and
       | somesite.whatever/books/123?campaign=2. Instead they will be
       | somesite.whatever/guid1 and somesite.whatever/guid2. What's the
       | point then?
        
       | schwinn140 wrote:
       | I'm not in the affiliate landscape but this kind of thing could
       | have detrimental impact on publishers driving traffic to various
       | commerce sites. If you're a person that makes an occasion
       | purchase through publishers (small or larger)to support their
       | content, this will immediately kill their earnings.
       | 
       | Publishers are desperate to monetize their audience anyway
       | possible. Affiliate revenue always seemed to be lesser of evils,
       | IMO, in comparison to programmatic/display. After all, the user
       | intentionally is making a purchase vs. having their data sold out
       | from under them with zero knowledge.
       | 
       | Here's to hoping that I'm misunderstanding how inclusive this
       | will be to stripping parameters.
        
         | mdavis6890 wrote:
         | What would be nice is if I can pay the content creator a small
         | sum to consume the content. I would pay. Nobody monetizes in
         | this obvious way though.
        
       | ronjouch wrote:
       | I'd love if Firefox's built-in Tracking Protection did without an
       | addon the job ClearURLs does, so two months ago I created
       | 
       | Bug 1697982: _" Firefox Tracking Protection should protect
       | against URL/queryparam-based tracking (like ClearURLs/NeatURL
       | addons do)"_ ,
       | https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1697982
       | 
       | Please vote for the bug if you'd like it too.
       | 
       | Also, I see a few interesting comments in this HN thread; this
       | evening when the dust settles, I'll aggregate & bring them to the
       | bug for consideration if/when fixing this bug is considered.
        
         | VortexDream wrote:
         | I think the problem with this is that ClearURLs can break
         | legitimate uses for URL params. I need to disable it when I do
         | things like online payment. That's not intuitive for users and
         | means an integrated solution needs to take laypersons into
         | account who wouldn't know how to solve the problem (or even
         | what the actual problem is). Is that realistically solvable?
        
           | ronjouch wrote:
           | This is realistically solvable.
           | 
           | 1. First, by Mozilla analysts & developers making a good job
           | at rolling out a potential implementation in a safe
           | progressive way, with the easiest stuff first (`fbclid`,
           | `gclid`, etc), and then going deeper / per-site, maybe re-
           | using (part of) existing filterlists.
           | 
           | 1.1. Also, note that ClearURLs is quite aggressive (as noted
           | by a few commenters, and I confirm): it strips lots of non-
           | URLbar requests, strips ETags, etc. A sibling comment
           | mentions that alternative NeatURL is less aggressive. As with
           | all cat-and-mouse games, this is a trade-off, and an
           | implementation in core Firefox doesn't have to go as far as
           | ClearURLs, at least initially. Offering a strictness knob to
           | users is also an option.
           | 
           | 2. Then, Firefox already has UI to disable Tracking
           | Protection and work around sites broken by it: click the
           | shield at the left of your URL bar, then toggle off "Enhanced
           | Tracking Protection is ON for this site" to see if it was ETP
           | that broke the site. This UI maybe need adjustments / more
           | granularity (and maybe not), sure.
        
             | indymike wrote:
             | You do realize that parameter names are easy to change?
        
         | daveoc64 wrote:
         | I am not a fan of making such functionality part of the
         | browser.
         | 
         | I use the HTTPS only mode in Firefox - it breaks some sites,
         | and telling Firefox to disable the mode for a specific site
         | doesn't always work.
         | 
         | I feel like a plugin (HTTPS Everywhere) can deal with this a
         | lot better than something that's integrated and reduced to a
         | single checkbox in the settings.
        
           | ronjouch wrote:
           | And I am a fan of making such functionality part of the
           | browser ^^. One less addon to manage & trust. Aside: the
           | amount of insecure code in addons is scary, see
           | https://palant.info/categories/security/ . Addons are also a
           | frequent cause of performance trouble. Thus, the more dubious
           | addon code I'm able to replace with somewhat-well-maintained
           | Firefox code, the better.
           | 
           | If this ever makes it into Fx, you can choose not to use it.
           | And by the way, maybe like you, I will make the same choice
           | if the Fx feature is too basic. But it will remain a win, for
           | the users for whom it's good enough and who would never have
           | bothered with an addon :) . Just like ETP & uBlock: ETP is a
           | good basic "80%/20%" solution, and uBlock Origin remains way
           | ahead for power users.
           | 
           | > _" telling Firefox to disable [HTTPS only] mode for a
           | specific site doesn't always work."_
           | 
           | This looks like a bug that you should report.
        
         | wackget wrote:
         | You should also suggest they remove their own garbage redirect
         | tracking from the Firefox Addons site.
         | 
         | Any URLs in the addon description section are all
         | tracked/redirected via `https://outgoing.prod.mozaws.net`
        
         | eythian wrote:
         | I don't really know how I feel about having the browser mess
         | with URLs without the user engaging it deliberately. It feels
         | to me something that should perhaps be approached with caution.
         | On the other hand, it does make sense. It's a tricky one.
        
           | ChefboyOG wrote:
           | I think an automatic alert (which can be set to ignore by the
           | user) which flags such links, and offers the option to turn
           | on a config flag which enables URL manipulation like this,
           | would be a good compromise.
        
             | bonestamp2 wrote:
             | Yes, maybe some flag that comes up at the end of the
             | address bar to indicate that it sanitized your URL. Then
             | you can click the flag to see details about what it changed
             | and have the option to navigate to the original URL.
        
           | ______- wrote:
           | > On the other hand, it does make sense. It's a tricky one.
           | 
           | All attempts by Mozilla to bake-in addon-like behavior so we
           | don't have to install 'yet another damn addon' is welcoming,
           | but as with any of these features, they come with caveats
           | already present in the addons.
           | 
           | For example, Firefox's HTTPS-Only mode (that is basically the
           | HTTPS-Everywhere addon) breaks some sites, and also their
           | anti-tracking feature will break some sites too. But then
           | again: if a site is serving HTTP only then they're doing it
           | wrong (with the exception of captive portals). As for the
           | anti-tracking feature: I rarely see sites asking me to
           | disable my AD-Blocker, and when I do I never give-in, no
           | matter how desperate I am to see hidden content.
        
           | tinyhitman wrote:
           | Maybe prompt the user with a "use clean" or "use as-is"
           | button (and "cancel").
           | 
           | and maybe a custom option; where you can toggle what is
           | cleaned and whatnot.
           | 
           | and provide a "remember for this domain".
        
           | darkwater wrote:
           | Well that's exactly the kind of job that an (opinionated)
           | User Agent should do for you. <aybe configurable, maybe not.
           | You can always change your agent (so, browser) if you don't
           | like its opinion.
        
             | arsome wrote:
             | I'm not so sure, by this logic we should have ad blocking
             | by default as well, however that's a recipe for getting
             | your browser banned by popular sites.
        
               | matheusmoreira wrote:
               | > that's a recipe for getting your browser banned by
               | popular sites
               | 
               | Good luck with that. They have no choice but to believe
               | whatever data the browser sends them, data that we
               | control. If their precious content leaves their server at
               | all they've already lost.
        
               | Nextgrid wrote:
               | Ad blocking by default is absolutely the way to go. Spoof
               | the Chrome user agent if this actually becomes a problem
               | (which would help with fingerprinting anyway).
               | 
               | This is a bit like antivirus software authors worrying
               | about being "banned" by the virus creators.
        
               | arsome wrote:
               | I'm all for that approach, but it opens a serious cat and
               | mouse game where any rendering difference between Firefox
               | and Chrome is quickly turned into a major problem for
               | average users. Firefox would no longer be something you
               | can recommend to your parents as they'd be constantly
               | fighting bans. Ad blocker detection is bad enough as is
               | with the current number of users.
        
               | kroltan wrote:
               | Popup blocking is basically standard and expected, don't
               | see why ad blocking couldn't become so too.
        
               | zo1 wrote:
               | Popup blocking is definitely not standard and expected.
               | There is a 90% chance of every website you visit to show
               | a popup and not be "blocked" by the most privacy-
               | conscious browsers. But. They're technically not
               | "popups", they're just divs overlaying over the content
               | that you were served but can't see. Or they're little
               | slide-banners that nag you about signing up for a
               | newsletter email or agreeing to tracking cookie non-
               | sense. Oh and let's not forget about the popups asking
               | you to allow "notifications" from this site, or to allow
               | "location info" to be shared.
        
           | matheusmoreira wrote:
           | It's exactly the kind of thing user agents should do. If it's
           | good for the user, they should do it by default for everyone.
        
             | smithza wrote:
             | It is at best neutral for the user. Sometimes these source
             | trackers help companies know that affiliate links are more
             | often drivers of traffic. Other times it helps with A/B
             | testing because they discover the main logo was more often
             | clicked than the "click me" button or whatever.
        
               | leipert wrote:
               | But how does this help me as a user?
               | 
               | Affiliate links are often hidden, and depending on the
               | system might even lead to higher prices, because the shop
               | is offsetting the affiliate program cost.
               | 
               | Whether the company does A/B testing, what does that have
               | to do with me? That also can be implemented without
               | external trackers and just be set in a session.
               | 
               | So I would say it's a net-positive.
        
           | woko wrote:
           | Exactly.
           | 
           | Every time I have used an add-on like ClearURLs, I have had
           | issues at some point due to some zealous clean-up of URLs
           | which breaks a redirection.
           | 
           | Typically, I don't want the browser to mess with my browsing
           | if I am on the websites of my bank, a shop, etc.
        
           | rakoo wrote:
           | Firefox already positioned itself when it gave the user a
           | possibility to block tracking cookies and fingerprinting
           | techniques. It's engaged even further now with Site
           | Isolation.
           | 
           |  _If_ utm_* query arguments are used solely for tracking,
           | then it only makes sense that Firefox goes the next step
        
             | sodality2 wrote:
             | It's possible it can be used for other things however, so
             | it's a slippery slope. I block them anyway but maybe not
             | default?
        
               | rakoo wrote:
               | It's still used only for tracking only, so I'd say it's
               | the right time to block them by default before they start
               | being used for something else.
        
               | michaelmior wrote:
               | I've seen some sites that use those parameters to
               | activate specific features on a landing page for example.
               | Pretty rare, but it does happen.
        
               | IgorPartola wrote:
               | Conversely, if you know that using utm_ parameters will
               | break for a large number of your users, you just won't
               | use it, no?
        
               | michaelmior wrote:
               | This is a fair point. At this point, it's unlikely to
               | break anything. But if it became the default, then any
               | sites that do use them for something important would
               | likely stop. Although there's nothing preventing sites
               | from just renaming these parameters and modifying
               | tracking code to keep tracking anyway.
        
         | surround wrote:
         | Mozilla themselves is guilty of link tracking. Any external
         | link on addons.mozilla.org looks like this:                 out
         | going.prod.mozaws.net/v1/25c02fd4e609951729e0ec0b41fe5391d91251
         | 1b45d2a02aeaa839872c8d9def/https%3A//gitlab.com/KevinRoebert/Cl
         | earUrls
        
       | JimDabell wrote:
       | There's lots of rules and patterns in this implementation, but
       | it's worth bearing in mind that you can normally get a clean URL
       | by looking at the <link rel=canonical> element.
       | 
       | Sites put this in because they want search engines to index a
       | single clean URL rather than many tracking URLs, so it's pretty
       | reliable.
        
         | account42 wrote:
         | That works if you want to get a clean URL to share with others.
         | But if instead you have gotten a link then not using built-in
         | patters means you would first need to retrieve the site with
         | the tracking parameters to get to the canonical URL.
        
       | karlicoss wrote:
       | I have an idea for a project (I call it 'cannon' for now)[0]
       | which would 'canonicalize' URLs and extract semantic information
       | from it, ideally just by looking at the URL, without doing any
       | extra requests. For example, a tweet URL usually encodes the
       | tweet author and tweet ID; and by extracting such entities one
       | could determine 'relations' between URLs. I'm using a simple
       | prototype in Promnesia [1], a browser extension aiming to make
       | the web browsing history more useful and aid knowledge
       | management.
       | 
       | This effort is really ought to be shared, it's potentially a lot
       | of manual work, and could benefit many projects. ClearURLs seems
       | like one of the most promising existing projects doing similar
       | stuff; have been meaning to approach the devs, feels like it's
       | something we could cooperate on. Although ClearURL has a somewhat
       | narrower scope, but still I feel like there is a potential to
       | share.
       | 
       | [0] https://beepb00p.xyz/exobrain/projects/cannon.html
       | 
       | [1] https://github.com/karlicoss/promnesia#readme
        
         | ForHackernews wrote:
         | How would this be possible? Different sites have different
         | ideas of what counts as a "canonical" URL: example.com/page1 vs
         | example.org?page=2
        
           | karlicoss wrote:
           | Yep, that's kind of the main problem :) Hence the need for
           | some manual curation. (e.g. ClearURLs seems to do it here
           | https://github.com/ClearURLs/Rules/blob/master/data.json) For
           | 80% of sites just throwing away the query parameters work,
           | for the rest sadly it's necessary to do more sophisticated
           | normalizing.
           | 
           | I'm also thinking that it might be possible by some simple
           | machine learning, by looking at the corpus of existing URLs.
           | E.g. if a human looks at a corpus of different URLs they
           | would more or less guess what is useful, and what's tracking
           | garbage, so perhaps it's possible to automate it with a high
           | accuracy?
           | 
           | Then, I also feel if it's paired with some UI to allow the
           | user to 'fix' the algorithm for entity extraction (e.g. by
           | pointing at the 'relevant' parts of the URL), it would
           | already be good enough for the user -- they would fix the
           | sites that are worst offenders for them. Then these fixes
           | could be optionally contributed back and merged to the
           | upstream 'rules database'.
        
         | StavrosK wrote:
         | This is a nit, but why "cannon" and not "canon"? Presumably
         | it's not firing projectiles at things.
        
           | karlicoss wrote:
           | Just the first pun I came up with :)
        
       | slver wrote:
       | This is one of those things that either few use and it works, or
       | if many start using it, the tracking will just get obfuscated.
       | 
       | I already see many sites use something like ?arg={BASE64 STRING
       | OF ALL THE THINGS} and no automatic tool can decypher that as
       | it's a custom list of bytes.
        
         | moehm wrote:
         | Removing utm_ parameters will probably always work, because
         | they are standardized and shared between different applications
         | (like the website and Google Analytics). If you try to
         | obfuscate them your analytics software can't read it as well.
         | 
         | But yeah, home grown analytics can't be reliable circumvented.
        
         | akie wrote:
         | > BASE64 STRING
         | 
         | > no automatic tool can decypher that
         | 
         | ...
        
           | slver wrote:
           | I was very specific I'm referring to the output bytes, not
           | the actual base64 encoding.
        
       | asymmetric wrote:
       | Note that this addon requires the "Access your data for all
       | websites" permission[0], which means:
       | 
       | > The extension can read the content of any web page you visit as
       | well as data you enter into those web pages, such as usernames
       | and passwords.
       | 
       | I'm sure the devs are super trustworthy, but there have been
       | cases of legitimate extensions falling in the wrong hands, and
       | this, coupled with automatic extension updates, could be a big
       | security hole in your setup.
       | 
       | [0]: https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/permission-request-
       | mess...
       | 
       | PS: Ironically, the link above has utm elements.
        
         | drexlspivey wrote:
         | Why is this permission needed? Aren't browser permissions
         | granular enough to only give it access to the url?
        
       | jacobajit wrote:
       | A particularly bad instance of link tracking I've found is in
       | TikTok's link sharing feature.
       | 
       | If you share a link from the TikTok app, it gives you a
       | vm.tiktok.com/[xyz] link to send/post elsewhere. It gives you no
       | indication that this isn't a generic link to the post, nor does
       | it give you an option to expose the generic link to the post.
       | 
       | Instead, when you share that link and someone clicks on it and
       | does not have the app, it opens with a header saying "[First
       | Last] is on TikTok." On the other hand, once you do click on that
       | link (if and only if you don't have the app installed), you get
       | redirected to the static link to the video and finally obtain it.
       | 
       | This is an anti-pattern that enables further tracking and
       | potentially unknowingly exposes user data when links are shared
       | publicly. And there's no indication to the user that this is
       | happening, since the link is structured as if it does not contain
       | any tracking. Ie a tool like this wouldn't be able to "strip out"
       | the tracking since it isn't tacked on in any way, but embedded as
       | the generated link itself.
        
         | space_fountain wrote:
         | A fun/weird result of this that the interface in the link is in
         | the language of whoever generated the link not your browser's
         | language
        
         | fossuser wrote:
         | That's pretty bad. I think TikTok's risks are higher than
         | people think. It's better to avoid it.
         | 
         | https://stratechery.com/2020/the-tiktok-war/
         | 
         | Any company running out of mainland China is going to have
         | serious privacy problems due to CCP influence and their need to
         | comply with both local laws and the government's interest in
         | influencing public sentiment.
        
           | calvinmorrison wrote:
           | Any company running out of mainland USA is going to have
           | serious privacy problems due to USA influence and their need
           | to comply with both local laws and the government's interest
           | in influencing public sentiment.
        
             | fossuser wrote:
             | Whataboutism style arguments (which are always the knee-
             | jerk reactions that show up) are wrong.
             | 
             | I wrote about this at length here:
             | https://zalberico.com/essay/2020/06/13/zoom-in-china.html
             | and won't rehash it again in the comments.
        
               | imiric wrote:
               | It's really frustrating how often whataboutism is used
               | whenever China is criticized, particularly towards the
               | US.
               | 
               | Yes, we know other countries have similar issues, but we
               | can't excuse the blatant wrongdoings of the CCP by
               | pointing the finger elsewhere.
               | 
               | It often feels like the work of bots or government shills
               | anytime it happens, but good luck getting to the bottom
               | of that.
        
               | brabel wrote:
               | Why is it frustrating when others point out that the most
               | popular services, which are usually from the USA, also
               | have the same kind of problem of being under the
               | influence of the respective government, but nobody seems
               | to be as worried about it? The criticism almost always
               | comes up whenever a service provided by a Chinese company
               | is mentioned in any context. China has shown no interest
               | that I know of in spying on non-Chinese citizens, so I
               | feel like it's probably less problematic to use a chinese
               | service than an American one if your only worry is that
               | someone is spying on you, specially considering how
               | there's plenty of evidence of the USA spying on the whole
               | bloody planet, including heads of state of allied
               | countries, for f'sake...
               | 
               | >It often feels like the work of bots or government
               | shills
               | 
               | Do you think I'm a bot because I disagree with you? Maybe
               | you are the bot... how can we verify you're not? :D good
               | luck getting to the bottom of that.
        
               | shard wrote:
               | > China has shown no interest that I know of in spying on
               | non-Chinese citizens
               | 
               | I believe China has kept tabs on 2 groups of non-Chinese
               | citizens: 1. foreign nationals within China borders, and
               | 2. foreign nationals who are ethnically Chinese.
        
               | sm4rk0 wrote:
               | > Why is it frustrating when others point out
               | 
               | Because it's painful to be awaken from the "American
               | dream".
        
               | Teever wrote:
               | > China has shown no interest that I know of in spying on
               | non-Chinese citizens
               | 
               | Assuming that this assertion is true what motivates China
               | to be so authoritarian towards their citizens but not so
               | to the rest of the world? Is it altruism or inability?
               | 
               | Does China only spy on their own citizens but not the
               | rest of the world because they like the rest of the world
               | more than their own citizens and they want the rest of
               | the world to have rights and freedoms that they believe
               | their own citizens don't deserve?
               | 
               | If it comes down to an inability to spy on the rest of
               | the world what do you think will happen when China _does_
               | develop the ability to spy on the rest of the world?
        
               | [deleted]
        
               | imiric wrote:
               | It's frustrating because it's not the topic of
               | conversation, and it only serves to derail it as we're
               | doing now.
               | 
               | If we're discussing the high cost of apples and someone
               | brings up oranges, it doesn't change the fact that apples
               | are expensive.
               | 
               | > Do you think I'm a bot because I disagree with you?
               | 
               | No, but a lazy comment doing s/China/USA/ certainly reads
               | like it. And if you've seen some of the threads on Reddit
               | or Twitter it becomes pretty clear some accounts search
               | for any negative discussion about China and interject
               | with whataboutism, which would be pretty easy to
               | automate.
        
             | ebruchez wrote:
             | If you think the two are actually comparable in degree, you
             | are seriously misled.
        
             | wongarsu wrote:
             | Yes, if you care about privacy both the large Chinese
             | services and the large American services are bad.
             | 
             | If you use Facebook or Instagram assume that the NSA has
             | all your data, and that someone might try to manipulate
             | you. If you use TikTok assume that China has all your data,
             | and someone might try to manipulate you. You either choose
             | your poison, or you stay on services that aren't in the
             | limelight
        
               | fossuser wrote:
               | One big difference is in the US the companies are not
               | required to manipulate content to serve USG interests.
               | TikTok may downrank or censor HongKong videos _because
               | the government forces them to_ - the same does not happen
               | at American companies.
               | 
               | I think the 'assume they have all of your data' is
               | paranoid (particularly for encrypted stuff like
               | whatsapp), but people should probably more careful about
               | this kind of thing than they are anyway. The US has laws
               | and rules around access, you may not agree with them -
               | but they are far and away better than the CCP's approach.
               | 
               | The CCP is running concentration camps for a minority
               | population of their own citizens, invading and taking
               | over neighboring countries (HK with an eye towards
               | Taiwan), and censoring pooh bear from the internet
               | because of a light hearted comparison to Xi. The police
               | call foreign students in the US to threaten them over
               | their internet activity:
               | https://www.vice.com/en/article/jgxdv7/chinese-police-
               | are-vi...
               | 
               | The comparisons are not valid.
        
               | leephillips wrote:
               | You're right about Chinese government behavior. But "the
               | same does not happen at American companies." --- no, but
               | they censor the internet in obedience to Pakistani
               | demands.
        
               | fossuser wrote:
               | You're right, and I think that's wrong:
               | https://zalberico.com/essay/2020/06/13/zoom-in-china.html
        
               | leephillips wrote:
               | That was excellent. Especially the dialog, totally on
               | point. The horrible thing is that it is barely an
               | exaggeration. US companies are in bed with a government
               | that is conducting an actual genocide, as you point out.
               | And then there is the middle east....
               | 
               | But as far as Google and Pakistan goes, most people who
               | have an inkling of this think that the censorship only
               | affects results served within Pakistan. But, in fact, the
               | censorship affects search results served within the US.
               | Google has allowed the Pakistani government, as well as
               | various pressure groups and other governments, to
               | influence what US people see within the US.
        
               | wongarsu wrote:
               | > particularly for encrypted stuff like whatsapp
               | 
               | End-To-End encryption is useless if like in the case of
               | WhatsApp you don't control the client, but a company
               | beholden to US secret courts does. ""For the past decade,
               | N.S.A. has led an aggressive, multipronged effort to
               | break widely used Internet encryption technologies," said
               | a 2010 memo describing a briefing about N.S.A.
               | accomplishments" [1]
               | 
               | > The US has laws and rules around access
               | 
               | I'm not a US citizen and reside outside the US, which
               | from my limited legal understanding means that the US law
               | doesn't give a crap about me
               | 
               | I agree that in recent decades China has a worse human
               | rights record, which is a major factor when you "choose
               | your poison".
               | 
               | 1: https://www.propublica.org/article/the-nsas-secret-
               | campaign-...
        
               | fossuser wrote:
               | All reasonable points, though I think whatsapp is secure
               | - I think for most people the best choice is Signal for
               | general messaging and assuming everything else is largely
               | public.
               | 
               | Even in Signal people can and do take screenshots, so
               | really probably just best to be cautious of anything in
               | writing that you wouldn't want published.
               | 
               | This is one reason I'm excited about Urbit - I think
               | it'll be cool to get out of the dependence on centralized
               | services.
        
               | lurkerasdfh8 wrote:
               | Not sure why you think those are exclusive. All companies
               | mentioned have offices and comply with law on both
               | regions.
        
           | madeofpalk wrote:
           | As a non-american, we don't really have a choice of using a
           | "native" social network that only has interference from our
           | own government.
        
             | chmod775 wrote:
             | Many countries have their own domestic social networks with
             | varying popularity - some are way more active than FB,
             | others are more or less dead. Russia is an example of the
             | former.
             | 
             | Other countries don't use social media much, because they
             | are culturally just not as interested in it.
             | 
             | There's a few countries where you can't really avoid being
             | on any social network and that social network is not
             | domestic, but those you can probably count on one hand. Off
             | the top of my head I can just come up with Australia, India
             | and Indonesia.
        
               | jrochkind1 wrote:
               | I wonder how many of those are in fact infiltrated by the
               | NSA, the Chinese equivalent, or both though. :(
        
             | Siira wrote:
             | Still, it's obvious that the CCP is more competent in
             | executing centralized, longterm plans, and has much less
             | cultural/institutional pressure not to seriously screw over
             | people.
        
               | smnrchrds wrote:
               | It also has much less ability to screw over people unless
               | they live in China. China cannot project power the way US
               | can.
        
               | djhn wrote:
               | Cannot for now.
        
               | Teever wrote:
               | This isn't totally accurate.
               | 
               | You are correct that China cannot project power in the
               | sense that they can't easily invade a country or level
               | shattering economic sanctions but they have proven
               | themselves quite capable of targetting individuals in
               | other nations both online and in the real world.
               | 
               | Either way, there is a moral imperative to prevent China
               | from gaining the ability to project power the way the US
               | can. The US being able to project that kind of power is
               | shitty, and the two entities being able to do that is
               | even shittier.
        
               | jrochkind1 wrote:
               | I appreciate that you recognize the US being able to do
               | it is shitty.
               | 
               | I wonder how many non-Americans think two entities being
               | able to do it is better than one, because at least they
               | can counter-balance each other.
               | 
               | Not just with force; I was recently thinking about how
               | the US during the cold war tried to be "nice" to the
               | "third world" to keep them out of the "sphere of
               | influence" of the Soviet Union. Currently China is trying
               | to project it's "soft power" that way too to get less
               | developed countries into it's patronage, but the US isn't
               | really doing that at the moment (see for instance
               | approaches to distributing covid vaccine...).
               | 
               | I (who is a usa citizen) personally am not really sure
               | which is preferable, only one super-power, or two. Either
               | way the world is in for a rough ride.
        
               | k12sosse wrote:
               | When it's just the US, AXIS powers lose. When it's China
               | too, the world loses.
        
             | fsflover wrote:
             | Have a look at Mastodon, PeerTube, PixelFed etc.
        
             | fossuser wrote:
             | That doesn't make the two equivalent.
             | 
             | Also, hopefully soon you will: https://urbit.org/
        
               | bb010g wrote:
               | Digital land ownership! Just what the internet
               | desperately needed. /s
        
               | fossuser wrote:
               | These knee-jerk responses are lame.
               | 
               | - IDs stop the spam problem and give people control over
               | something that keeps its reputation (and they're cheap).
               | 
               | - Federated systems normally suck because administering
               | the servers and keeping decentralized versions in sync is
               | hard. Urbit's design fixes this.
               | 
               | - Encrypted by default, ability to be as easy to run as
               | FB (eventually, not right now). Peer to peer with the
               | address space and key issues solved from first
               | principles.
               | 
               | - Stability over long time horizons due to design (goal
               | being indefinite), the urbit abstraction layer doesn't
               | change and state can always be recomputed - changing
               | pieces are implemented via jets to communicate with
               | whatever underlying OS is doing the normal stuff.
               | 
               | It's a clever design and solves a lot of problems with
               | modern computing, people often dismiss it out of hand
               | because Yarvin's politics are stupid (he's no longer
               | involved in the project and hasn't been for some time).
               | Peter Thiel's Trump support was stupid too, but that
               | doesn't mean he doesn't get a lot of other stuff right.
               | 
               | https://urbit.org/blog/the-understanding-urbit-podcast/
        
               | earthboundkid wrote:
               | LOL, if you don't like a social network run by communists
               | or capitalists, try the one run by don't-call-them-
               | fascists.
        
         | imiric wrote:
         | Stack Overflow does something similar, and adds a user tracking
         | ID to any shared link, though apparently it's possible to
         | remove it without breaking the link[1].
         | 
         | I only noticed when I received a badge for how many times it
         | was clicked, and even though it's not nefarious I'd still
         | prefer it to be opt-in rather than done by default.
         | 
         | [1]: https://meta.stackoverflow.com/q/277769
        
         | vagrantJin wrote:
         | This is needlessly alarmist.
         | 
         | A short video platform can hardly be expected to be a paragon
         | of security and privacy. It has no utility whatsoever. I don't
         | see where the concern comes from. A video of someone drinking
         | coffee does not particularly invoke a point of concern.
         | 
         | What may be the real concern is China and the fact that the app
         | is tied to it. Thats more race/geo-politics/war-mongering issue
         | than a privacy concern.
        
           | oauea wrote:
           | You can't be serious. If what the gp says is true, then
           | tiktok leaks your full name to anyone you share a link to. I
           | see your HN username, nor bio, mentions your full name.
           | Perhaps you are comfortable sharing this with anyone you
           | communicate with online, but I'm not.
        
             | vagrantJin wrote:
             | Well, my grandmothers logic and wise advice still holds.
             | You have a problem with it - don't use it. It's genius.
             | 
             | Just like you wouldn't stand there listening to a drunk
             | person complain about alcohol related health issues, I'm
             | not about to entertain people complain about privacy when
             | they have the agency and choice.
        
               | oauea wrote:
               | I don't. This is one of the many reasons why I never
               | will. I don't see how that is relevant to the discussion,
               | however. Say hi to your grandmother for me.
        
               | kevinh wrote:
               | People don't know that they're sharing personal info when
               | they're sharing the links. It's like spiking someone's
               | drink and then blaming them for getting drunk.
        
         | milofeynman wrote:
         | When twitter's snowflake was lengthened recently I was worried
         | they might be doing this too. I'm afraid of the big ones moving
         | to this. Spotify, instagram, twitter, etc
        
           | ddorian43 wrote:
           | Where was it lengthed ?
        
         | jtbayly wrote:
         | But this can be solved, too, can't it? It's effectively a Bitly
         | link. Just need to auto-expand to the final destination, right?
        
           | black_puppydog wrote:
           | Piece of cake. I'm sure there's an app for that, which
           | incidentally needs access to your location data... /s
        
             | jtbayly wrote:
             | ClearURLs is being discussed. It changes the URL you are
             | visiting to remove tracking info. There are preexisting
             | plugins that do the same thing with shortened URLs--
             | unmasking them and thus untrackifying them.
             | 
             | So mock and downvote all you want. I don't see why
             | ClearURLs couldn't add this functionality.
             | 
             | Edit: Or am I just being downvoted by people who don't want
             | anybody to know that it's possible to stop this form of
             | tracking?
        
               | mimimi31 wrote:
               | >I don't see why ClearURLs couldn't add this
               | functionality.
               | 
               | I think the problem is that, for security reasons,
               | ClearURLs can't change URLs arbitratily. It can only
               | remove parts of it, so the actual URL would have to be a
               | parameter. See [1] for a relevant comment by the
               | extension's author.
               | 
               | [1] https://github.com/ClearURLs/Addon/issues/102#issueco
               | mment-8...
        
               | jacurtis wrote:
               | > Or am i just being downvoted by people who don't want
               | anybody to know that it's possible to stop this form of
               | tracking?
               | 
               | I think you are confused how this works. Because it would
               | NOT be possible to stop this type of tracking. That is
               | why you are being downvoted. The downvotes are because
               | you are simply wrong, not because there is a conspiracy
               | on HackerNews of people that don't want other people to
               | know that it is possible to stop tracking.
               | 
               | Here's how it works: In the example given above, you only
               | have the url vm.tiktok.com/[short-url-id]. This URL does
               | not represent anything on its own. When you click the
               | link, it goes to a tiktok server that looks up the
               | `[short-url-id]` portion of the url in a database, which
               | contains the actual video id/url that is trying to be
               | shared, along with additional metadata about the share
               | such as the person that shared it and the device the user
               | is coming from, etc. This information is then logged in a
               | data warehouse or sent down a data firehose to eventually
               | perform advanced analytics to TikTok. All of this is
               | happening while you are waiting to get the real url of
               | the video back. Yes it's only a few milliseconds, but by
               | the time you get the url of the video back so that you
               | can actually watch the video, the data has already been
               | logged. Your privacy is already compromised.
               | 
               | So your suggestion is to "unmask" the url and
               | "untrackify" it and then give the user the end-url with
               | the actual video. The problem is that the only way to get
               | the real url and to "untrackify" it, you need to contact
               | TikTok and they will already log the data before you can
               | get the real url back. You can't simply "unmask" it. Only
               | TikTok knows what the real URL is. In order to get the
               | real url you need to ask them (by following the short url
               | link) and they will log your data before they give you
               | the real url. There isn't any way around this (other than
               | not using the vm.tiktok share links).
               | 
               | I am not sure if the "real url" that tiktok gives you
               | contains url parameters in it or not. It probably does.
               | So you could theoretically remove those. For example turn
               | tiktok.com/video-
               | url?sharing_user=username123&device=iphone into
               | tiktok.com/video-url. This would be possible. But it
               | wouldn't do anything to protect your privacy. It would
               | simply remove the "[First Last] is on TikTok" message.
               | But the data already got logged when you exchanged the
               | short-url for the long-url. So the privacy damage has
               | already been done. This is why "unmasking" simply doesn't
               | do anything other than give you the _illusion_ of
               | privacy, without any change to real privacy.
               | 
               | By contrast, when you see a url like cnn.com/news-story-
               | url?utm_source=facebook and you remove the parameters
               | from that type of link, you can actually overt a certain
               | level of tracking because the tracking hasn't been logged
               | yet when you remove the parameters. So removing the
               | params into the link cnn.com/news-story-url and following
               | that, will avoid the tracking because the tracking is
               | done on the actual visit with that specific url. Since
               | you removed the tracking parameters, the website now has
               | no data to actually track.
        
               | jtbayly wrote:
               | It's entirely possible for Apple or Mozilla (just for
               | example) to run a service checking URLs. In fact they
               | already do this IIRC. They could easily replace all of
               | these redirect links with the real link. Thus every
               | unique link would be visited exactly once. By Apple. Not
               | tracked.
               | 
               | And that's _actually_ stopping it. Even if you don 't
               | want to do that, there's real utility in an incremental
               | step where if I go to re-share a Tiktok video I don't
               | accidentally _help_ them track others.
        
               | jacobajit wrote:
               | As others have mentioned, it does depend on what exactly
               | you're defending against.
               | 
               | Preemptively opening the link as the sender will send a
               | request to TikTok, but they're not really gaining any
               | useful data there since you just watched the video, hit
               | share (this is what they know so far), and now you opened
               | the link that you had generated. So their database only
               | learned that you shared a video with yourself, which you
               | immediately opened.
               | 
               | The more valuable data is when various intended
               | recipients open the link, allowing TikTok to associate
               | you with them to serve more targeted videos based on
               | implicit social graph, etc.
               | 
               | Moreover, opening the link yourself to get the "canonical
               | url" protects yourself if you're sharing the link broadly
               | since others can't obtain your name [and potentially
               | more?] from the shortlink.
               | 
               | Now, if you're the recipient, there's not much you can do
               | to avoid the tracking link, besides opening it up in as
               | much of an anonymous environment as possible. But
               | interestingly enough, I find the privacy threat greater
               | to the sender. The sender has a TikTok account to
               | aggregate data quite straightforwardly, unlike the
               | recipient. The sender is also being associated with a
               | number of recipients, vs. the recipient with only one
               | sender, and again only through cookies, IP, or something
               | of that sort.
        
               | teolandon wrote:
               | Please stop complaining about downvotes.
               | 
               | ronjouch explains how it's not really possible to stop
               | this form of tracking below. In order to unmask the URL,
               | you need to pretty much visit the URL, which registers
               | the tracking data, so even if you, as a user, gets a
               | stripped URL that's safe to use, you will still have
               | effectively clicked the link.
        
               | gowld wrote:
               | If you are "unmasking" the URL it's because either you
               | already visited or you are going to visit it? The masked
               | URL and the unmasked URL are hosted by the same entity.
               | 
               | Unmasking (by the sender or a trusted intermediary, such
               | as Tor) removes the risk of leaking the sender data to
               | the (transitive) recipient
        
               | ronjouch wrote:
               | I fail to understand how you'd "unmask" a backend-
               | obfuscated URL (where you just have an ID, and there's no
               | way to get the target URL by just looking at the URL)
               | without opening the URL, defeating the purpose of
               | improving privacy we're discussing here.
               | 
               | Or maybe you and OP don't care about the privacy part of
               | the problem, and you just want to automate getting the
               | "canonical" / "non-personal" one from the "masked" one?
        
               | netcraft wrote:
               | a service expanding that link one time to give you the
               | underlying static url without tracking before sharing is
               | far better than even one real person clicking it, wouldnt
               | you agree? the trackers would know at least one person
               | clicked it but thats about it?
        
               | jacurtis wrote:
               | This works if the sender of the shortened link wants to
               | protect other's privacy preemptively. Then they could
               | certaintly follow the link, log a single click, then grab
               | the final url and share that.
               | 
               | But the average person isn't going to do that. They will
               | share the nice, short, pretty url that tiktok gives them.
               | But once someone gives you that shortened url, there is
               | no way for you to view the video on the other end of that
               | URL without being tracked. You would need to follow the
               | link, tiktok would track you, only after they have logged
               | the data will they send your browser a redirect to the
               | proper url.
        
               | jtbayly wrote:
               | Unless your computer looks up the Url from a service.
        
               | ronjouch wrote:
               | To you and sibling comment: oooookay, you're thinking
               | from the position of an obfuscated link sharer/sender,
               | not receiver.
               | 
               | You want ClearURLs (or something else) to always resolve
               | to a canonical link, so that you're easily able to share
               | this canonical URL, and to never have a tracked URL in
               | your URL bar so that you don't share it by mistake. Makes
               | sense.
        
               | jtbayly wrote:
               | Precisely. Just because we can't stop unique URLs from
               | being created doesn't mean we should just keep using them
               | ourselves.
        
               | IgorPartola wrote:
               | I can think of two ways of doing this:
               | 
               | 1. When I go to share a link, automatically trace it and
               | remove all tracking so I get the final URL without any
               | tracking parameters attached.
               | 
               | 2. When I am sent a link with tracking parameters as a
               | part of it, or a shortened link, send it to a remote
               | server which will follow the links until it finds the
               | final destination and removes tracking parameters, then
               | send it back to me.
               | 
               | Both approaches have downsides. The first is nice for
               | when I send a link to a friend but not when I get a link
               | in an email from a company. This happens to me all the
               | time and since I use NextDNS to block trackers I often
               | can't even get to the final website because of the
               | various trackers I would have to go through to get to it
               | which are blocked at the DNS level. I am still trying to
               | figure out a good solution to this.
               | 
               | The second has the obvious privacy problem: who is
               | watching the watchers?
        
               | fouc wrote:
               | because the service accesses the link and follows the
               | redirects and then returns the final link to you, with
               | tracking removed
        
           | zuppy wrote:
           | that's not the problem, you can easily expand the url with
           | curl (it will probably be a redirect) and manually remove the
           | parameters. the problem is that it is not obvious to you that
           | the link contains personally identifiable information.
        
           | plorg wrote:
           | I have a self-written set of userscripts that does this, as
           | well as unsetting javascript link rewrites and including
           | bitly link expansion and Amazon URL decluttering. I would
           | love to be able to use it on Firefox for Android again, but I
           | don't see them enabling e.g. Tampermonkey any time soon.
           | 
           | If any shortlink uses bitly as a backend, you can expand it
           | yourself by copying the link and adding a "+" at the end,
           | bringing you to the bitly properties page for that link.
        
             | jamesdwilson wrote:
             | Beware that Bit.ly and others themselves often do malicious
             | redirects.
             | 
             | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9508150
        
           | yewenjie wrote:
           | I use Universal Bypass for these kind of links.
           | 
           | https://universal-bypass.org/
        
         | userbinator wrote:
         | With websites, at least you can just copy the URL from the
         | address bar and clean it. Of course, people are being slowly
         | dumbed down by browser's (mostly Chrome, but Firefox seems to
         | follow its stupid trends not long afterwards) attempts at
         | removing or hiding the URL, which is no surprise when you
         | realise that herding the userbase to use dedicated "share"
         | buttons (complete with tracking) is one of the reasons they're
         | doing that.
        
           | DangerousPie wrote:
           | What's to stop a website to do the same thing with the URLs
           | in your address bar?
        
             | ryankrage77 wrote:
             | They absolutely do that, but when you copy-paste them to
             | share elsewhere, you can manually strip all the tracking
             | info out.
             | 
             | For example, when I search Google for 'Hacker News', the
             | URL I arrive at is
             | "https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-
             | b-d&q=hacker+ne...". If I want to send that to a friend, I
             | would edit the link to be
             | "https://www.google.com/search?q=hacker+news".
             | 
             | The dedicated share buttons will often give you a link
             | generated on the fly, with all the tracking info on the
             | back end. For example, if google was to do this (which they
             | thankfully don't), the link might look like
             | "google.com/?query=cce1602b-5af6-4d95-965b-e88450afc266",
             | and in the database there would be all sorts of tracking
             | info tied to it. I can't edit that URL to dissaciate from
             | that information, so if I share it, they would know it was
             | me who shared it, and not someone else visiting it on their
             | own.
             | 
             | Of course, companies can and do track you via less obvious
             | means all the time, but this is just one small way you can
             | foul a data point for them.
        
               | Black101 wrote:
               | > They absolutely do that, but when you copy-paste them
               | to share elsewhere, you can manually strip all the
               | tracking info out.
               | 
               | If they create custom urls for everyone that look like
               | https://website.com/uuid/ and don't redirect you to the
               | real url... it is not possible to strip anything unless
               | you do some research to find another URL that redirects
               | you to the same page. Not sure what that would do to your
               | search engine rankings though...
        
         | joshstrange wrote:
         | Yes, I regularly warn people on Reddit that their full name is
         | being leaked in the TikTok link they shared. I have an iOS
         | shortcut that expands the URL and chops off the gross tracking
         | stuff so I can share links in private/public without exposing
         | my TikTok "name" (I don't link any accounts and my name is made
         | up).
        
           | ehsankia wrote:
           | > I have an iOS shortcut that expands the URL and chops off
           | the gross tracking stuff
           | 
           | Ooo, that's pretty neat. I wonder if something similar can be
           | achieved on Android. I usually manually paste it in chrome
           | and copy the redirect, although I also enable desktop view to
           | not get the mobile link.
        
             | joshstrange wrote:
             | You might want to look at some basic Android automation
             | tools. I'm pretty sure I've seen some before but I don't
             | know any off the top of my head. It was really simple to
             | write the iOS Shortcut, all I did was:
             | 
             | * Accept a URL as input
             | 
             | * Expand the URL to the full link
             | 
             | * Find the "?" in the new url and snip everything after and
             | including it.
             | 
             | Originally I looked for ".html?" but some TikTok links
             | don't have the ".html" anymore so I had to switch to just
             | "?". Tasker for Android [0] _might_ be what you are looking
             | for but I can 't be sure. You might want to ask on the
             | subreddit [1] for help or search there for something
             | similar.
             | 
             | [0] https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=net.dingl
             | isch....
             | 
             | [1] https://www.reddit.com/r/tasker/
        
       | ignoramous wrote:
       | Another way to browse one-off sites one visits is to through a
       | mirror like https://archive.is/ (I exclusively use mirrors to
       | view posts on content aggregators like Medium, Substack,
       | Buzzfeed, Blogspot, Wordpress; annoying News websites that
       | download a gazillion files; and file-hosting websies like imgur).
       | 
       | A caveat: When you submit a request to archive a url, archive.is
       | sends the client-ip ( _X-Forwarded-For_ ) to the destination
       | server.
        
         | runxel wrote:
         | Little bit OT, but I always wondered what archive.is does
         | better than archive.org....
        
           | ignoramous wrote:
           | archive.org archives _any_ digital content; including larger
           | (media) files. archive.org also has several other active
           | archive projects than just the Wayback Machine. It also
           | respects _robots.txt_. archive.org is a non-profit based in
           | SF.
           | 
           | archive.is archives webpages by stripping it off of any
           | dynamic content, but it tries its best to capture a dynamic
           | (multi) page (spa) anyway (for example, twitter threads,
           | linkedin profiles). It limits file-sizes up to 50MB (I
           | think?), and works best with text-heavy webpages (news and
           | blogs, for example). archive.is is ran by a for-profit
           | company based in NY, but it isn't clear who is in fact behind
           | it. Ref: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/wp:archive.is
        
       | edtechdev wrote:
       | Does anyone know of something like this that works on mobile?
       | Couldn't find a Firefox mobile add-on that does this.
        
         | edtechdev wrote:
         | Doing some more digging, apparently AdGuard just created a URL
         | tracking filter a couple of weeks ago that we should be able to
         | enable in either the AdGuard or Ublock Origin (or perhaps other
         | ad-blocking) Firefox mobile addons eventually:
         | https://adguard.com/en/blog/adguard-url-tracking-filter.html
         | 
         | Or you can manually add the filter now. After installing the
         | Ublock Origin addon in firefox mobile, I clicked on the 3 dots
         | -> Addons -> Ublock Origin -> Open the dashboard -> Filter
         | lists -> Import... and pasted this URL (from the top of the
         | above link):
         | https://raw.githubusercontent.com/AdguardTeam/FiltersRegistr...
         | 
         | I tested by sharing a URL with UTM and other parameters, and it
         | did strip them.
        
         | acdha wrote:
         | Here's an iOS service:
         | 
         | https://apps.apple.com/us/app/resolver-share-clean-urls/id14...
         | 
         | In addition to cleaning trackers it tries to convert AMP and
         | Apple News links to the real pages.
        
       | cies wrote:
       | This add-on together with Firefox, Bitwarden, uBlock Origin,
       | HTTPS everywhere and EFF's Privacy Badger I us to improve my
       | privacy online. Once a blue moon (few times per year) I have to
       | switch them off to get a site to work.
       | 
       | Besides that I only have the Tree Style Tab add-on installed,
       | which is much recommended.
        
         | hollander wrote:
         | If a site doesn't work, open the link in a private tab. Usually
         | that works, unless you have all these addons working in private
         | mode as well of course. But I only use them in normal mode.
        
           | cies wrote:
           | I have all setup in private mode too.
           | 
           | I use Chromium, which is mostly plugin free, as the
           | alternative.
        
           | koheripbal wrote:
           | I only run private mode, for everything.
        
             | asdff wrote:
             | Why? Browser history is useful.
        
         | StavrosK wrote:
         | I used to use Privacy Badger as well, but they've recently
         | removed the learning feature (because it could be used to track
         | you, IIRC), so it became similar to uBlock Origin, to the point
         | where it feels redundant to run both.
        
           | eythian wrote:
           | Thanks for pointing this out. I just had a look at the
           | settings and found that you can turn it back on, though it
           | does come with the warning. Personally I think the risk to me
           | of it learning being a detectable event vs. the tracking it
           | blocks to be less, so I turned it back on.
        
             | andrew_ wrote:
             | I use AdBlock Plus in tandem with Privacy Badger because
             | they do occasionally snag baddies that the other does not.
             | To make this silly redundancy complete, I'm running them
             | both on Brave, which catches almost all of what the two
             | extensions used to handle.
        
               | celsoazevedo wrote:
               | > I use AdBlock Plus
               | 
               | Isn't uBlock Origin a better extension, both from a
               | blocking (no "Acceptable Ads", for example) and also
               | performance point of view?
        
             | StavrosK wrote:
             | Yes, I also turned it back on when I realized. I just
             | noticed that I'm actually still using it, I just had the
             | icon hidden. It's not as useful without the learning,
             | though.
        
         | kristofferR wrote:
         | LocalCDN and Universal Bypass are two other privacy extensions
         | you should add.
        
         | medstrom wrote:
         | Those addons are very basic, just what I'd have done in 2010
         | --- before Snowden!
         | 
         | Since you have Firefox, you could sync with a community-
         | developed user.js like Arkenfox (previously GHacks) [1], which
         | seems to go much farther and still not break much! At least the
         | settings privacy.resistFingerprinting and
         | privacy.firstparty.isolate looked indispensable as soon as I
         | learned what they do.
         | 
         | And without FPI (first party isolation), not getting LocalCDN
         | [2] (Decentraleyes successor) and Temporary Containers [3]
         | seems like a gross oversight. They have a great discussion on
         | add-ons at the Arkenfox wiki [4].
         | 
         | [1] https://github.com/arkenfox/user.js
         | 
         | [2] https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/localcdn-
         | fork...
         | 
         | [3] https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/temporary-
         | con...
         | 
         | [4] https://github.com/arkenfox/user.js/wiki/4.1-Extensions
        
           | cmg wrote:
           | I used privacy.resistFingerprinting for a long time, but it
           | changes the timezone to UTC. As a web developer it just
           | caused a little more confusion than I was willing to deal
           | with when working on front-end stuff. There's a bug [0] to
           | address this but it hasn't been acted on yet.
           | 
           | [0] https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1364261
        
           | kristofferR wrote:
           | Arkenfox is great, but people should be aware that it also
           | results in a significantly less pleasant web browsing
           | experience.
           | 
           | Fingerprinting is extremely hard to avoid, without being
           | painfully conformist.
        
             | medstrom wrote:
             | I haven't noticed, but I admit my Firefox setup has been
             | subtly broken for a decade (by choice). In any case, you
             | can always unconform where it matters for you, but why not
             | start from sane defaults?
        
               | kristofferR wrote:
               | Arkenfox isn't really about sane defaults, it's about
               | extreme defaults. Even auto-update is disabled.
        
               | medstrom wrote:
               | It still prompts you to install an update when one is
               | available. In Firefox you still have to accept a prompt
               | about restarting the browser after that, so it doesn't
               | make a whole lot of difference.
               | 
               | But fair point about "extreme" vs "sane". They're quite
               | subjective terms.
        
       | gadf wrote:
       | _Let the AdTech Arm 's Race Begin...._
        
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