[HN Gopher] Casio AI-1000 Pocket Lisp Computer from 1989 [video]
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Casio AI-1000 Pocket Lisp Computer from 1989 [video]
Author : akuzi
Score : 167 points
Date : 2021-05-03 23:34 UTC (23 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.youtube.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.youtube.com)
| de6u99er wrote:
| I had a Sharp PC-E 500. I even wrote an operating system with
| password manager, draw, rtf editor programs, and chat via
| parallel port. Bricked it multiple times when doing peek and poke
| commands to lock it down so only login people who logged in
| properly could use it.
|
| I remember being proud of conpressing 16 pixels of my monochrome
| draw program into a character.
| lovelyviking wrote:
| Do we have today _fully lisp based_ machines? If not then why
| not?
| zokier wrote:
| Emacs is the bastard child between unix and lisp machines.
| frostburg wrote:
| A runtime on a general purpose cpu (whose development has been
| supported by more use cases) is faster.
| johndoe0815 wrote:
| An emulator (written in Delphi for Windows) and more information
| on the AI-1000 and the closely related PB-2000C (which runs C
| compiled to some sort of p-code) can be found at
| http://www.pisi.com.pl/piotr433/pb2000ee.htm
|
| PockEmul (https://github.com/matsumo/PockEmul) also seems to
| support emulating the PB-2000C and AI-1000.
| classichasclass wrote:
| More relevant to this thread, the PB-2000C has a Prolog option.
| I have one with that card.
| MichaelMoser123 wrote:
| wow, a knowledge base in a calculator. Did the calculator
| have any relation to Japans fifth generation project?
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fifth_generation_computer
| flowerlad wrote:
| I learned programming around 1985 on one of these Casio pocket
| computers. It ran Basic interpreter not lisp. Incredible little
| machine. It looked like this:
| https://www.ebay.com/itm/143595147094 I probably would not be a
| software engineer at a top company today without it.
| ngcc_hk wrote:
| In the old days buying a calculator with basic meant it went to
| IT departmemt abd it is me who has to handle the request. Found
| it funny to deal with hundreds of IBM PC purchase and this one
| Casio. Still remember how annoying the user is, why I have to
| see you, write justification and go through approval process
| for a bloody computer whilst my boss you help him to buy so
| many PC!
|
| Never saw a lisp one though. Interesting where one can get one
| for old Tim sake.
| gonzus wrote:
| That was my second Casio "calculator" for Uni, loved it. It had
| a _huge_ display with four lines :-) -- my first one was a
| Sharp (Radio Shack) with a single line. Both programmable in
| BASIC.
|
| I can still remember the fog clearing out of my mind when I
| started to understand what the code was doing. Being able to
| plan something up, program it and see it work was an absolute
| blast, a gateway drug to a career still going strong after
| several decades.
| dboreham wrote:
| I had (probably still have, somewhere), one of those. Good
| times.
| tragomaskhalos wrote:
| For me, my Casio FX-502P when at school - totally caught the
| programming bug from that thing. The cool kids (in the maths
| sense obviously!) had HPs; RPN and beautifully engineered, but
| too expensive sadly. I hate the modern calculators with their
| 'ANS' nonsense, they can get off my metaphorical lawn.
| agumonkey wrote:
| Casio did produce a series of those (I read that thanks to this
| yesterday). Quite impressive to a C environment in your pocket
| that long ago. Even more impressive how it died silently. In
| the 90s mainstream all that was left was graphing calc with a
| basic like dialect.
| cpach wrote:
| Wow, that display is tiny (^_^)
| simlevesque wrote:
| I has the opposite thought, I learned programming (in 2001)
| on a Sharp computer pretty similar but with only one line at
| a time on the display. This one has four, that would have
| helped me
|
| Edit: it was a Sharp CE-122: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wik
| ipedia/commons/1/1e/PC_1210_...
| p_l wrote:
| back in 1992, the first calculator I think I ever touched was
| my father's Elektronika MK-85, which was essentially an
| "inspired by" copy (externally look alike and similarly
| programmed, but all the internals designed from scratch in
| USSR).
|
| Imagine my surprise when many, many years later, I learnt that
| the pocket calculator had a full PDP-11 (LSI-11 compatible, to
| be specific) with QBus inside...
| erk__ wrote:
| Reminds me of the Lisperati: http://www.lisperaticomputers.com/
| oilbagz wrote:
| .. which seems to have inspired a few like-minded souls:
|
| https://www.clockworkpi.com/devterm
| tartoran wrote:
| These are very cool devices that I would buy to play around
| with but, I don't really understand the idea with a hingeless
| flat screen. That can promote a very bad posture if used on a
| table as one needs bend the neck to see the screen. Sure,
| these could be used in handheld mode but how much can you
| type with thumbs only before you want to use more fingers??
| zabzonk wrote:
| Oh dear, the thought of typing Lots of Infuriating and Silly
| Parentheses on a calculator keyboard doesn't exactly inspire!
|
| It's not clear from the bit of the video I watched, but
| presumably there was some sort of IDE-like help with this?
| ddingus wrote:
| IDE? Sure, the whole machine is the development environment.
| Integrated to the nines, everything you need right there in
| your pocket.
|
| And frankly, that machine was luxurious!! Multi-line display,
| reasonably sized keyboard? NICE. The ones I used were typically
| one or two line displays. Workable, but not pleasant.
|
| Today, yeah. We have very luxurious user interface
| capabilities! Fantastic displays, sounds, keyboards, touch
| screens, and lots of storage, can run multiple programs at
| once.
|
| Back then, the inspiration was simply being able to write and
| run a program. The bonus with these little pocket computers was
| being able to do that on the go, where you are.
|
| I was doing manufacturing back when these things popped up.
| Getting one was huge! I filled one with a bunch of programs
| that could compute things needed to make parts quickly and
| accurately.
|
| There were good computers, but they were in offices generally
| far away from where the action was. A lot of effort went into
| making sure the people making things had the info they needed
| to do that too.
|
| But, that didn't always happen with prototypes and or jigs,
| fixtures and other things needed to make the intended things.
|
| I basically encoded my skills into that little pocket computer
| and could think something up, or be handed a drawing and just
| go make stuff from that input data and do so with few worries.
|
| Prior to these kinds of devices, people would use reference
| sheets, or go to where they could use a computer to generate
| the detail data they need, or just break out pencil and paper
| and do the math with some calculator or other.
|
| The ones I used offered BASIC. And for the time, getting some
| RAM, a respectable BASIC, a screen, etc... meant being able to
| write programs to solve problems and get the benefit of those
| solutions multiple times, on demand.
|
| Today, of course, we carry around phones with computers
| attached and they are crazy powerful! Today we've got apps for
| people to use too.
|
| At that time, the IDE was the device, a reference card, manual
| in the carrying case, and if you were lucky, some storage
| options and or printed output options. Otherwise, it was use
| the little screen and keyboard to bang the program out, run it,
| debug it, then use it.
| Gravityloss wrote:
| The title ticks all the HN top post boxes. Lisp. Pocket computer.
| Casio. Eighties.
| ChuckNorris89 wrote:
| It's not a HN thing, it's everyone with a passion for
| technology, the same way how someone with a passion for cars
| will appreciate an old-timer rather than his Toyota Corolla.
|
| Honestly, stuff like this provides some much needed escapism
| for me as I feel burned out from scraping all the cruff from
| the bottom of the Jira barrel wihch is most "tech" jobs
| nowadays and miss the days I used to just tinker with stuf I
| enjoy. Now, after 8 hours of shoveling dev-ops/CI-CD crap or
| fixing last-minute shit that randomly broke due to updated lib
| or package, I just want o put the laptop away and be done with
| "tech" for the day.
| chevill wrote:
| > It's not a HN thing, it's everyone with a passion for
| technology, the same way how someone with a passion for cars
| will appreciate an old-timer rather than his Toyota Corolla.
|
| From my experience at least 90% of people passionate about
| technology have never heard of LISP. If you restrict that set
| of people to just programmers then a lot more of them have
| heard of it, but there's still a surprising amount that
| haven't.
| airstrike wrote:
| +1. I hope you saw the dishwasher post from this weekend!
| jaytaylor wrote:
| I think airstrike is referring to
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27013880
| Hammershaft wrote:
| "I think that it's extraordinarily important that we in
| computer science keep fun in computing. When it started out,
| it was an awful lot of fun. Of course, the paying customers
| got shafted every now and then, and after a while we began to
| take their complaints seriously. We began to feel as if we
| really were responsible for the successful, error-free
| perfect use of these machines. I don't think we are. I think
| we're responsible for stretching them, setting them off in
| new di- rections, and keeping fun in the house. I hope the
| field of computer science never loses its sense of fun. Above
| all, I hope we don't become missionaries. Don't feel as if
| you're Bible salesmen. The world has too many of those
| already. What you know about computing other people will
| learn. Don't feel as if the key to successful computing is
| only in your hands. What's in your hands, I think and hope,
| is in- telligence: the ability to see the machine as more
| than when you were first led up to it, that you can make it
| more."
|
| -- Alan J. Perlis
|
| From the opening of SICP. I didn't think it was the most
| amazing quote when I read it but when I hear the frustration
| and cynicism of many devs on the state of computing it makes
| me wonder.
| timonoko wrote:
| Did I have Nokolisp running on Atari Portfolio in 1989? No
| recollection of anykind. Must have been, because why not?
|
| But I had very serious floating point computing needs, because
| GPS was not yet invented. I managed to install Turbo Pascal in it
| and steal someones Nautical Almanac - algorithms.
| timonoko wrote:
| Github seems to agree there where at least some *.LSP - files
| in Portfolio, doing god knows what.
| https://github.com/timonoko/sextant
| timonoko wrote:
| My Guess: SEX.LSP seems like an attempt to Lispify the
| SEX.PAS file, by utilizing Turbo Pascal's floating point
| capabilities.
| ChuckNorris89 wrote:
| Wasn't the Atari Portfolio used by John Connor in the
| Terminator movie to hack that ATM?
| timonoko wrote:
| Fake. The ribbon connector was not connected to anything. It
| was just snot-glued on the back of the display. All I/O was
| on separate modules directly connected to CPU bus.
| CraigJPerry wrote:
| Prices for HP-48's are through the roof these days. However
| HP-50's are not loved currently despite being the same
| rpn/lisp/graphing calc software just with much faster processors
| - they are the much better buy right now and can be had under
| PS50.
|
| My 50g is one of the most convenient ways to check my arithmetic
| when it comes to dates and hours calculations.
|
| I think overall though, these are a relic and the best way
| forward i'm aware of today are the "mathemtics notepad" type
| applications that reimagine what a calculator looks like on a
| desktop.
|
| At the cli i get more mileage out of gnu units than i'd have
| thought...
| p_l wrote:
| A good reason for that is the changed shape and keyboard, which
| disfavors RPN and mimics contemporary casio calculators (even
| docs have strange preference for mentioning algebraic mode
| first).
|
| The large enter of hp-48 and earlier RPN calculators makes way
| more sense, especially if you're going to do anything fast.
| TBQH, I'd love a hp-50g internals (or better) in hp-48gx case
| :)
| mschaef wrote:
| For context, the 50G came out at the tail end of HP's
| development of calculators. (In fact, the original Corvallis
| calculator group had disbanded and the group that produced
| the 50G was a reconstitution assembled in part from the HP48
| enthusiast community.)
|
| By the time the 50 rolled around, computers had reduced the
| role of calculators in professional work, and HP was left
| addressing the enthusiast and educational markets. But the
| educational market was (and is) already heavily locked up by
| TI. So the 50G wound up being a compromise product (and built
| to a lower price point). IMO, the diminished Enter key and
| 'algebraic first' aspects of the design are direct attempts
| by HP to cater to people who might otherwise be using TI.
|
| As someone who was enthusiastic about HP48's back in the day,
| I have to admit that I'm a little sad that the market hasn't
| continued to develop. But to be perfectly honest, modern
| technology and software is so much more capable, and I have
| no desire at all to carry another special function device if
| I can avoid it. My guess is that this is a fairly widespread
| opinino.
|
| > TBQH, I'd love a hp-50g internals (or better) in hp-48gx
| case :)
|
| I'd always hoped they'd do both that (With the old school
| black/blue/yellow color scheme) and a version of the 50g in
| the 200LX case. Between the faster CPU of the 50G and the
| much bigger screen of the 200, the result would have been a
| great rendition of the core RPL software. (For 1994-5, at
| least).
| whartung wrote:
| I was devout HP-48 fan back in the day, even did some
| custom programming for one for a client (got paid!),
| deployed about 20 of them in to the field. This thing was a
| real delight to write programs for. Just RPL, nothing
| fancy. For $99 at the time, they were a handheld
| powerhouse.
|
| My singular complaint about them today is the lack of a
| backlight. It's just plain hard for me to read now.
|
| I do have one on my iPhone which slots right in to the
| "good enough" category, even though the tactile feedback of
| the keyboard is lacking. What it lacks there is more than
| made up in handiness and readability. My go to application
| for it is equation solving.
| p_l wrote:
| don't forget that the form change was done with hp49, in
| 1999, when scientific/engineering calculators were still in
| professional work since even in CAD/CAM/CAE era, sometimes
| you had to work away from the bulky desktops and laptops
| were still much more expensive and underpowered compared to
| your typical engineering PC. Of the arguments to move the
| enter key, only the need to add more buttons is IMO
| defendable :)
| mmcgaha wrote:
| 50G isn't loved? My guess is that the 50G will be the most
| loved over time. Really it is the end of the line and the
| pinnacle of a HP RPL calculator. It looks great (better then
| the 49g+), has a good keyboard and is very responsive.
|
| On a side note James Donnelly's HP 48 Programmers Toolkit added
| CAR and CDR commands.
| forgotpwd16 wrote:
| uLisp/ATmega1284-based Lisp Badge looks similar
| http://www.ulisp.com/show?2L0C
| ChuckNorris89 wrote:
| IMHO the ATmega chips (on the Arduino boards especially) are
| the easiest and most fun way to learn how CPUs work as they're
| 8-bit RISC so they have have a really basic and simple to
| understand architecture similar to that of Apple II's MOS 6502
| or Intel's 8008, but have modern documentation and toolchains.
|
| I can easily recommend an Arduino or a clone instead of a
| Raspberry PI to anyone wanting to get their hands dirty.
| [deleted]
| AlbertoGP wrote:
| This was a duplicate of another thread posted one hour earlier:
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27034951
|
| The comment I posted on lobste.rs:
|
| I've been curious about this computer for some years, and bid on
| one some time ago, but at more than 600 EUR that was more than I
| was going to pay for it.
|
| As far as I know, the machine is internally the same as the
| PB-2000C which I do have, just with different key labels and a
| different ROM. There is an emulator for Windows here:
| https://pockemul.com/
|
| There is even a Prolog ROM, but again for me it's not worth the
| going prices:
| https://www.casio880.com/categoria_productos/casio/ai-1000/
|
| I wanted to build myself a modern version of this based on the
| Planet Computers Gemini (https://www.www3.planetcom.co.uk/gemini-
| pda) which in theory can run Linux, but I've had so much trouble
| with it (running Linux) that I had to postpone it until I can
| find some time again.
|
| Edit: the video description includes several interesting links
| including Pocket Emul.
| dang wrote:
| That thread was posted later than this one. You can tell from
| the item IDs.
|
| When we put a story in the second-chance pool
| (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26998308), the timestamp
| gets relativized to the re-up time, which can be confusing,
| though not as confusing as not doing it. More explanation at ht
| tps://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que....
| KingOfCoders wrote:
| I have many pocket computers, sadly not that one. My Casio VX-4
| might be closest. Not cheap currently $400
|
| https://buyee.jp/item/yahoo/auction/j714515522
|
| Still my all time favorite for the 70 colors ist the Casio PB-100
| tluyben2 wrote:
| Same here: I have been looking for this one for a while.
|
| Edit: thanks for that site: I will be very poor soon.
| KingOfCoders wrote:
| I've spent already a lot of money on that site :-)
| drcode wrote:
| Hot diggity that's a sweet machine- keys for car and cdr! I
| want one really badly, but I know it'll just sit in a drawer,
| because 90s tech just isn't gonna hold up for practical use.
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