[HN Gopher] John Swartzwelder, Sage of "The Simpsons"
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       John Swartzwelder, Sage of "The Simpsons"
        
       Author : mooreds
       Score  : 139 points
       Date   : 2021-05-02 16:28 UTC (2 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.newyorker.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.newyorker.com)
        
       | DiNovi wrote:
       | Anyone read his self published novels?
        
         | ovulator wrote:
         | I've read most of them. Some of the stuff is just gut bustingly
         | funny. But it isn't grounded by anything, it comes close to
         | just being a stream of nonsense. They basically come off as
         | ideas for novels, or television shows, with no polish.
        
       | slickdork wrote:
       | It's best to read this interview in Ron Swanson's voice.
       | 
       | It was often speculated that Swartzwelder was the inspiration for
       | Swanson in Parks and Rec, but Michael Schur denied it. Though,
       | Greg Daniels was the one who worked with Swartzelder while at The
       | Simpsons, so I don't know if Schur's denial holds water
       | considering it would have been Daniels' who intended it.
       | 
       | They do look and sound strikingly similar.
        
       | hardwaregeek wrote:
       | I've been debating with my friends about the Simpsons vs Family
       | Guy/South Park. And while Family Guy/South Park definitely have
       | their merits, the Simpsons is just in a different league. There's
       | a great roundtable^[1] of Simpsons writers hosted by Conan
       | O'Brien (who also was a writer). They talk about how with the
       | Simpsons, no matter what, the family fundamentally cares about
       | each other. Whereas with more modern animation and comedy as a
       | whole, there's this extremely misanthropic feel. Bob's Burgers is
       | probably one of the few shows that actively bucks this trend.
       | 
       | Of course The Simpsons is also just really funny. Family
       | Guy/South Park are too, although I find that Family Guy resorts
       | to shock humor far too much and South Park often repeats the same
       | joke for the entire episode ad nauseum.
       | 
       | [1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DtJ28qOEG1g
        
         | flobosg wrote:
         | > no matter what, the family fundamentally cares about each
         | other (...) Bob's Burgers is probably one of the few shows that
         | actively bucks this trend.
         | 
         | King Of The Hill comes to mind as well.
        
           | spacemansam wrote:
           | For some reason, KOTH never caught my eye when it was on
           | regularly. Saw it again a few years ago and loved it.
        
         | cogman10 wrote:
         | The golden era simpsons is some of the best comedy ever
         | written. Sometime after season 10 or 11, quality dropped. I'd
         | argue that golden era simpsons is definitely in a different
         | league than southpark/family guy. However, after the golden era
         | they are pretty comparable with, frankly, the simpsons being on
         | the lower end of humor.
        
           | codyb wrote:
           | The newer seasons, while not as good as the golden era, are
           | fairly decent in my opinion. I stilly try to catch a new
           | episode when it comes on on Sundays and they seem to have
           | picked up some steam. The newer episodes feature all sorts of
           | characters as the main plot runners.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | morebortplates wrote:
       | https://archive.is/80lqM
        
       | gorpomon wrote:
       | Even though more than the credited writer collaborates on a
       | Simpsons script (as Swartzwelder says in this interview) it's fun
       | to count how many jokes are packed into a John Swartzwelder
       | episode of the Simpsons. I did it for several of his greats and I
       | found it to be around every 10 seconds something comical was
       | happening.
       | 
       | I've read a few of his books as well, and while I haven't counted
       | the rate feels similar (of course, depending on how fast you
       | read).
       | 
       | That pace of humor is both prodigious and after excessive
       | analysis a tad tiring. But a Swartzwelder episode isn't a thing
       | to dissect, it's a thing to behold. It's really some of the best
       | comedy every produced, hyperbole be damned. Just take a minor key
       | episode like "Whacking Day"-- it manages to hit this incredibly
       | assured series of notes. It's both completely ridiculous (a town
       | holiday to beat snakes) and at the same time a cutting satire
       | about how people dogmatically stick to tradition. It's completely
       | relevant today, even though many of the younger folks watching
       | might not know who Barry White is. And that's kind of the secret
       | sauce-- the longevity and levity are intimately tied in a way
       | that other comedies (or even the Simpsons of today) can't quite
       | match.
        
         | dfxm12 wrote:
         | _even though many of the younger folks watching might not know
         | who Barry White is._
         | 
         | Many of the younger folks watching when the episode first aired
         | in 1993 probably didn't know who Barry White was, either. His
         | hits were from 20 years prior. Even if you didn't know who he
         | was though, he works in the episode because his distinctive
         | voice is written into the story & used as a plot point. He
         | doesn't just make a cameo appearance that any random celebrity
         | could have made.
         | 
         | Keep in mind, this is a show that made Rory Calhoun references
         | in 1995!
        
           | ok123456 wrote:
           | Most people only know who Thomas Pynchon is, is from the guy
           | with the paper head over his head who appeared two times on
           | the Simpsons as a throw away joke.
        
           | gorpomon wrote:
           | But everyone knows who Rory Calhoun is, he's always standing
           | and walking!
        
       | tootie wrote:
       | There's so many jokes in vintage Simpsons episodes that I can't
       | understand how they were even written. They can't have made sense
       | on paper. The writing was amazing but so was the cast and the
       | writers had to have so much faith that putting a stage direction
       | _Homer shrugs and grunts_ would be devastating at the right
       | moment. It can 't be understated how big an impact they had.
       | Every show, even non-comedy, has borrowed inflections and phrases
       | from 90s Simpsons.
        
         | legitster wrote:
         | My favorite is Mr. Burns answering the phone "ahoy-hoy".
         | 
         | It's funny on so many levels, and it requires an amazingly
         | esoteric bit of knowledge in a time before it was easy to find
         | that kind of stuff on the internet.
        
           | mbreese wrote:
           | When the joke was first made (Mr. Burns using the phrase), it
           | wasn't "common" knowledge, but it was a known thing. Like one
           | of the "fun facts" you'd find on a cereal box, or in between
           | segments of a TV show, or as a Jeopardy question.
           | 
           | I remember seeing the episode and understanding the joke...
           | it was just meant to make Mr. Burns appear *really* old.
           | 
           | Maybe I just had a ton of useless/esoteric knowledge as a kid
           | -- that's likely too.
        
           | davidw wrote:
           | "Alexander Graham Bell originally suggested 'ahoy' be adopted
           | as the standard greeting when answering a telephone, before
           | 'hello' (suggested by Thomas Edison) became common." - from
           | the Wikipedia page on 'Ahoy'.
        
         | dec0dedab0de wrote:
         | In high school my friends and I would discuss during the
         | commercials to see what jokes each of us were laughing at,
         | because we knew it would be different.
        
         | anamexis wrote:
         | I learned from this interview that The Simpsons are what
         | popularized the word "meh." I had no idea that it was not a
         | common word before this.
        
           | rekwah wrote:
           | It's a perfectly cromulent word.
        
           | tootie wrote:
           | This is probably the quintessential example of what I'm
           | talking about. I was actually surprised to learn they didn't
           | coin it themselves. It's not even a word, but it has so much
           | meaning. It's an entire mood and everyone knows what it
           | means. Lisa says it to Homer in an offhand exchange. It's not
           | even a joke but I will never not laugh at it.
        
             | comprambler wrote:
             | The hullabalooza episode in reference to the younger
             | generation being apathetic to the world. (Neither Highs nor
             | Lows)
        
           | vlunkr wrote:
           | Also the word "yoink" I think.
        
         | Taylor_OD wrote:
         | They were written and then endlessly workshopped to increase
         | the number of jokes per minute. I believe the goal was 6 per
         | minute during early seasons of the Simpsons.
         | 
         | Obviously that is really hard to do and its fallen out of
         | style.
        
           | swader999 wrote:
           | Because animation takes so long to produce there's a lot of
           | time to polish and dial the jokes.
        
             | fartcannon wrote:
             | Very few cartoons are broadcast live. It's a terrible
             | strain on the animators' wrists.
        
               | swader999 wrote:
               | They just need to use both arms.
        
           | germinalphrase wrote:
           | It is still fairly common advice in stand-up to keep the
           | jokes coming every 7-10 seconds.
        
         | helipad wrote:
         | If anything the jokes of the vintage years have got better with
         | age.
         | 
         | Not only because I understood the cultural references or
         | occasional 'adult' jokes more, but also because of the layers
         | to a joke.
         | 
         | Like many Pixar movies, the same gag can make you laugh in
         | different ways as a kid, as a know-it-all young adult, and as a
         | middle aged person.
        
       | neonate wrote:
       | https://archive.is/80lqM
        
         | flatiron wrote:
         | Is it just me or archive is unusable on mobile now due to the
         | capcha being off screen?
        
           | cbsks wrote:
           | I was able to view the captcha by rotating my phone into
           | landscape mode
        
       | dls2016 wrote:
       | "They can kill the Kennedys but they can't make a decent cup of
       | coffee?"
       | 
       | Army Man Magazine: https://armymans.tumblr.com/
        
         | bstre wrote:
         | Wow- now that is some comedy gold. This feels like the sort of
         | thing a person would know about, but I didn't! Thanks.
        
       | standardUser wrote:
       | I'm going to have to read his books. Even his jokes in the
       | interview are comedy gold.
        
       | dfxm12 wrote:
       | _"The Simpsons" did something I didn't think possible: it got
       | viewers to look at writers' credits on TV shows._
       | 
       | This made me think about what _The Simpsons_ , or any show,
       | really is. For a show with a relatively thin premise, it can
       | really be anything the writing team wants it to be. _Homer at the
       | Bat_ might as well be from a different series from _The Bonfire
       | Of The Manatees_. The cast is the same, so the different writing
       | team is really felt.
       | 
       |  _Yes. Thanks to the deal [executive producer] Jim Brooks had,
       | Fox executives couldn't meddle in "The Simpsons" in any way,
       | though we did get censor notes._
       | 
       | I guess Fox had to take some sort of risks when they were a
       | nascent network (especially before they had the NFL). It was
       | probably an exciting situation for the show runners to be in. I
       | don't they could've gotten such a deal at a more established
       | station.
        
         | klmadfejno wrote:
         | I've gotten into the habit of looking at writers credits when a
         | show I'm watching starts to go downhill. Inevitably its because
         | some key person at helm started to leave.
        
         | wodenokoto wrote:
         | > it can really be anything the writing team wants it to be.
         | 
         | "Moaning Lisa" was an episode idea for the show Taxi.
         | 
         | If I remember my Simpsons DVD commentary correctly one of the
         | Simpson's writers was fresh off of Taxi and had this idea for
         | an episode for a long time, that didn't catch on for that show,
         | so it was remolded and rewritten for the Simpsons.
        
           | alexilliamson wrote:
           | That was James L. Brooks! He was indeed coming off of Taxi.
        
       | Romanulus wrote:
       | This is a great video related to this:
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KqFNbCcyFkk
        
       | kbr2000 wrote:
       | Where's the interview? I see just two paragraphs introduction,
       | and then a list of links to (unrelated) books and articles.
        
         | rasfincher wrote:
         | Looks like it's behind their paywall.
        
         | patwolf wrote:
         | I was seeing that too. I switched to a different browser and it
         | started showing the whole article. It was very confusing--I
         | thought for a minute that the article just ended there as some
         | sort of cruel joke about a person that doesn't give interviews.
        
           | leephillips wrote:
           | Yes, the _New Yorker_ paywall is confusing. There is no
           | indication that you are not seeing the complete article.
           | Their website in general is a layered failure of design.
        
             | mastercheif wrote:
             | Interesting, Wired does the same thing. Must be a Conde
             | Nast thing.
        
       | rasfincher wrote:
       | I enjoyed this article. Especially his discussion of writing
       | filler text in scripts that would be ironed out later during
       | rewrites. I see a nice correlation to writing software. Get it
       | working in general and then go back and optimize it.
        
         | cainxinth wrote:
         | write drunk, edit sober
        
         | theorymeltfool wrote:
         | This is a well-known trick of writers though. You put something
         | down that sucks, and it basically makes your brain think about
         | it while you're not doing anything. Harlan Ellison talks about
         | this too. It's why so many Simpsons episodes are parodies of
         | films; you take the basic plot outline to a film, change up as
         | much as you can to make it funny, and then fill in the rest.
        
         | ggambetta wrote:
         | Found that very interesting too! I'll try working around
         | writer's block using that technique :)
        
         | murph-almighty wrote:
         | I did something similar for a show script I had to write once
         | (a spoof of a children's show). I got the original plot down,
         | then worked with a partner to actually go back and insert the
         | jokes we'd thought of while writing the first draft.
         | 
         | Worked out pretty well, though I don't have any awards to show
         | for it.
        
         | sjg007 wrote:
         | I've never been prouder than when the new hire refactors my
         | code.
        
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       (page generated 2021-05-04 23:02 UTC)