[HN Gopher] TeXmacs and the Art of Mathematical Writing
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       TeXmacs and the Art of Mathematical Writing
        
       Author : amichail
       Score  : 56 points
       Date   : 2021-05-03 12:37 UTC (10 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (texmacs.github.io)
 (TXT) w3m dump (texmacs.github.io)
        
       | ykonstant wrote:
       | Both texmacs and lyx are excellent products, _especially_ in the
       | seamless integration of images and diagrams. More traditionally,
       | Vim and Emacs can be used with snippets and vimtex /auctex quite
       | efficiently, both for interactive note-taking and to prepare
       | large documents. Gilles Castel has an excellent guide on the Vim
       | side [0], and I cannot help mentioning my system [1] which I
       | think produces pretty clear latex code.
       | 
       | [0] https://castel.dev/post/lecture-notes-1/
       | 
       | [1]
       | https://www.reddit.com/r/unixporn/comments/jtjol5/cinnamon_l...
        
       | kleiba wrote:
       | Not to be confused with writing (La)TeX in Emacs, which is also
       | fun.
        
       | forgotpwd16 wrote:
       | It should be noted that TeXmacs isn't just for authoring
       | documents in the traditional sense. It also allows running shell-
       | like programming sessions, for example a computer algebra system,
       | right inside the document itself. The idea is similar to
       | Mathematica and Jupyter but rather using cells for specific
       | purpose (text, code, ...), in TeXmacs everything is part of the
       | same document.
        
       | noobermin wrote:
       | TeXmacs is awesome, I used it in grad school to take notes during
       | QFT lectures and I could follow along because the shortcuts are
       | just so intuitive if you already know latex: for example in math
       | mode, ^ enters superscript, _ enters subscript, you can access
       | greek letters by tab completion from the roman alphabet
       | characters like \alpha is a+tab, \delta is d+tab, \Delta is D+tab
       | (capital D tab). It's awesome, although a little buggy in the
       | less used bits like the graphics maker.
       | 
       | Still, it has a load of potential, it just needs a little more
       | love (developers and money I suppose).
       | 
       | EDIT: little tidbit, much like the online org-mode manual,
       | judging by the typeface and the color of the hyperlinks, I bet
       | this article itself was written in texmacs and exported to html.
        
         | omaranto wrote:
         | > EDIT: little tidbit, much like the online org-mode manual,
         | judging by the typeface and the color of the hyperlinks, I bet
         | this article itself was written in texmacs and exported to
         | html.
         | 
         | Even more than the typeface and the hyperlink color, I found
         | this to be a give away :P
         | 
         | "Figure 1. This article has been written in TeXmacs. The image
         | shows the article being drafted and the management of the
         | figures within the program."
        
         | dash2 wrote:
         | I used it in 2006-7 while at grad school. The tab-completion
         | was indeed awesome, it's just so intuitive. Find the key that's
         | close to what you want, then hit tab until it gets what you
         | want. I ended up using LyX because it was a bit faster and
         | better supported, but I wish they would learn from this
         | interface.
        
       | diarrhea wrote:
       | I just ignore the entire TeX-Editor landscape and use VSCode with
       | LaTeX Workshop. The latter falls apart for what I use it for
       | often (*.cls files etc.), but VSCode is simply so much more
       | powerful than any niche, language-specific editor can ever hope
       | to be.
       | 
       | LaTeX-specific support like tab completion mentioned in this
       | thread ("hit a+tab for alpha") also doesn't work in my use cases.
       | I use `glossaries-extra` for everything it's suitable for, so all
       | symbols are glossary macros and not literal letters
       | (`\alpha`...). It makes the source beautifully readable and is
       | more in LaTeX's spirit: what you mean is what you get (`\section`
       | vs. `\large\bfseries\sffamily`...). So instead of `\alpha` it
       | might say `\sym{absorbtion_coefficient}`. If you ignore the
       | necessary `\sym` macro bit, equations in source code will read
       | like you'd say them out loud. There's no ambiguity left, what the
       | author meant is right there, no guessing needed.
       | 
       | Want to change the symbol? There's only one place you'll have to
       | change it at. Often, you cannot change e.g. `\alpha` globally
       | (sed and friends) because such a popular symbol is probably used
       | in multiple contexts.
       | 
       | Generate a nomenclature? It's one command once everything is set
       | up, no manual `nomencl` (which is an awful, hacky, old thing)
       | sorcery anymore. You can even print a list of all the pages a
       | symbol, acronym, ... has been used.
       | 
       | And that's just `glossaries-extra`. There's `unicode-
       | math`/`fontspec`, `tcolorbox`, `polyglossia`, `csquotes` (latex
       | editors might helpfully auto-complete quotes (``''), but that is
       | entirely misguided in the first place; use `csquotes`),
       | `cleveref`, `biblatex`, `floatrow`, `caption`, ... modern LaTeX
       | is pretty wonderful and has a lot to offer, but I found LaTeX-
       | specific editors lag behind and their LaTeX-specific support is
       | not useful in a lot of those cases. Plus, LaTeX Workshop is very
       | good in its own right.
        
         | forgotpwd16 wrote:
         | Besides that TeXmacs _isn 't_ a TeX editor, how exactly is VS
         | Code more powerful than TeXmaker for example for the purpose of
         | authoring TeX documents?
        
         | GiovanniP wrote:
         | > I just ignore the entire TeX-Editor landscape
         | 
         | TeXmacs is not a TeX-editor, it is an independent program. The
         | word "TeX" is in the name because one of the ambitions of the
         | program is to inherit the typographic excellence of TeX (see
         | the "parent article"). On this topic, the author of TeXmacs
         | claims he has _surpassed_ it.
        
           | taeric wrote:
           | It is rather amusing how this product is neither TeX, nor
           | emacs. Pretty sure the vast majority of folks assume it is
           | related to at least one, if not both.
        
             | GiovanniP wrote:
             | According to Joris van der Hoeven "... it has become clear
             | over time that this choice of name was one of the biggest
             | mistakes of the project. Indeed, the name incorrectly
             | suggests that TeXmacs is some kind of interface to
             | (La)TeX."
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | clircle wrote:
       | I'm learning for the first time that TeXmacs can interface with R
       | for reproducible research and computational notebook type
       | writing. I might give this a shot! I like writing Rmarkdown, but
       | I sure hate writing prose in fixed width fonts, and I miss a lot
       | of WYSIWYG features when I'm in Rstudio/Emacs.
        
         | mgubi wrote:
         | TeXmacs has interfaces for many systems
         | (https://twitter.com/gnu_texmacs/status/1382216780702175232)
         | including R. Seems that currently R does not run, however I
         | think a medium R user can understand and fix the problem. The
         | interface code for R is written in R.
        
         | dash2 wrote:
         | The latest Rstudio has visual mode, which lets you write prose
         | in a normal font and code in fixed-width. It's an early
         | iteration, but fairly usable.
        
         | GiovanniP wrote:
         | I have tried it now on Xubuntu 20.10 and there is a bug. I have
         | asked here if anyone knows how to fix it:
         | http://forum.texmacs.cn/t/does-the-r-plugin-work/434
        
           | GiovanniP wrote:
           | Please see http://forum.texmacs.cn/t/does-the-r-plugin-
           | work/434/2 (you maybe have figured it out on your own). I
           | tried the solution with R_LIBS_USER=~/.local/lib/R, and
           | despite still an error being present it is possible to enter
           | commands and see the output. Plots are displayed in own
           | windows, but it may be that with simple programming they may
           | be embedded in the document too.
           | 
           | Edit: in the same thread one can read how to embed plots
           | generated with R in the TeXmacs document. So my impression is
           | that there is sufficient functionality for working.
        
       | Myrmornis wrote:
       | [Plug] If you're an emacs user, here's a project which renders
       | all math in LaTeX documents to SVG preview images automatically
       | as you type:
       | 
       | https://github.com/dandavison/xenops
       | 
       | I've used it a lot and I believe the experience is better than
       | preview-latex in auctex (that's the only thing from auctex that
       | it replaces). The main drawback at the moment is that you can't
       | use the full range of math delimiters, but it does support the
       | standard/recommended AMSMath ones.
        
         | cbmuser wrote:
         | How is that different from the preview mode of AucTeX?
        
       | b215826 wrote:
       | The main issue I have with TeXmacs (and similar software like
       | LyX) is that it's hard to collaborate with others who don't use
       | it. TeXmacs and LyX both support exporting to LaTeX, but YMMV
       | with the readability of the LaTeX source produced, which makes it
       | near impossible to share it with your coauthors. Also, it's hard
       | to use them to typeset articles for journals that often require
       | the authors use a specific style file. None of this is criticism
       | of TeXmacs per se, and I have nothing but respect for the
       | developers, but I believe these are the main reasons why TeXmacs
       | isn't popular among people who write math.
        
         | GiovanniP wrote:
         | Perhaps a support software to guide the writing of both the
         | TeXmacs and the LaTeX versions of a document so that conversion
         | is straightforward, and therefore easier to make it readable
         | for the converter, might be useful (see discussion at
         | http://forum.texmacs.cn/t/an-idea-for-collaborative-work-
         | wit...). For what regards the journal style files, as far as I
         | know they are being refined in TeXmacs---my feeling is that a
         | comprehensive set will be reached only through user
         | contributions.
        
         | noobermin wrote:
         | I generally use TeXmacs for notes and derivations for myself.
         | For journal articles that obviously will be collaborations I
         | use just plain latex of course. I think the most I did was in
         | grad school is that I wrote my candidacy report in TeXmacs, but
         | that was obviously just something I wrote myself and it didn't
         | require a specific style.
         | 
         | I think a happy medium would be if you could export snippets of
         | latex from a larger texmacs doc but I haven't actually tried
         | it.
        
           | mgubi wrote:
           | I generally use TeXmacs for notes, derivations, lectures,
           | articles, all, of course. Most of my papers in the last 7
           | years, around 15 and all my lectures in the same period,
           | circa 2 courses a year.
           | 
           | More in detail, all these papers are been written completely
           | in TeXmacs and then converted to LaTeX to be put in arXiv:
           | https://arxiv.org/abs/2004.09637
           | https://arxiv.org/abs/2004.01513
           | https://arxiv.org/abs/2004.00872
           | https://arxiv.org/abs/2003.14264
           | https://arxiv.org/abs/1912.06881
           | https://arxiv.org/abs/1912.04830
           | https://arxiv.org/abs/1906.11187
           | https://arxiv.org/abs/1812.04422
           | https://arxiv.org/abs/1810.12014
           | https://arxiv.org/abs/1805.10814
           | https://arxiv.org/abs/1708.03118
           | https://arxiv.org/abs/1702.03195
           | https://arxiv.org/abs/1701.07373
           | https://arxiv.org/abs/1610.07886
           | https://arxiv.org/abs/1508.03877
           | https://arxiv.org/abs/1502.00157
           | 
           | Similarly all the lecture notes in this page:
           | https://www.iam.uni-bonn.de/abteilung-gubinelli/teaching
           | 
           | I think most of the discussion in this thread does not report
           | any real current experience using it.
        
             | noobermin wrote:
             | Interesting. How do you collaborate with others who just
             | use latex?
             | 
             | Just as a note, I do use it today, just not to publish
             | anything as I mostly have to adhere to journal article
             | styles (can't just get by on preprints in my field) and I
             | collaborate with others.
        
               | mgubi wrote:
               | I convince them to use TeXmacs :). At least I do not want
               | to use LaTeX anymore (note that I've been hardcore LaTeX
               | users for long time and also developed software to
               | support LaTeX, e.g. TeXniscope, a previewer for DVI/PDF
               | files in the early times of MacOS). Conversion to LaTeX
               | format happens in the last stage of the submission (to
               | arXiv or to a journal). It takes usually from 1 to maybe
               | 10 min to have the file ready, maybe small tweaks for
               | some bugs which I report and then get corrected. Three of
               | my students wrote their PhD thesis with TeXmacs, and at
               | least two/three other people I know. If I need to
               | collaborate on a file which is being written in LaTeX I
               | write my parts in TeXmacs and then I paste them in the
               | file.
               | 
               | Most of my presentations are also written in TeXmacs and
               | in these days I use it to teach via Zoom, or to discuss
               | with colleagues/students, make computations, etc... Not
               | really using paper anymore. If you need to do algebraic
               | manipulations, then it is more convenient to copy/paste
               | on the screen that to rewrite the same equation several
               | times with small variations on the paper.
               | 
               | Using the submission requirements as an argument seems so
               | wrong to me, it is like saying: since the final format is
               | PDF we need to write our ideas directly in PDF... if one
               | day editors will decide to use XML as submission format,
               | then what? I do not want to think about mathematics with
               | a screen divided in two parts, and the quality of the
               | process is also very important to me. I spend maybe
               | months to work on a paper in TeXmacs and at most only 1h
               | in LaTeX when I really need to because editors are become
               | used to require from the authors the work a professional
               | typesetter would have done in the past.
        
             | JustFinishedBSG wrote:
             | Just wanted to say I loved your course on martingales
             | approx 7 years ago at Dauphine, maybe it was already in
             | TeXmacs :)
        
               | mgubi wrote:
               | Thanks. Glad you liked it enough to remember :) Indeed,
               | I've just checked and I still have the TeXmacs files for
               | the "polycopie du cours de Processus Discrets". The main
               | developer was in Orsay at the same time I was there 2006,
               | for mixed circumstances I've started to interest me to
               | that software at the same time. I should say at the
               | beginning I was attracted to TeXmacs not as a user but
               | because it is a very complex piece of software which is
               | very fun to hack on (choose your language: Scheme or
               | C++).
        
           | GiovanniP wrote:
           | > I think a happy medium would be if you could export
           | snippets of latex from a larger texmacs doc but I haven't
           | actually tried it.
           | 
           | In the TeXmacs editor Edit->Copy to->LaTeX (one might have to
           | add some macro definitions in the preamble of the LaTeX
           | document)
        
       ___________________________________________________________________
       (page generated 2021-05-03 23:02 UTC)