[HN Gopher] Louis Rossmann: A Conversation with Steve Lehto on R...
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Louis Rossmann: A Conversation with Steve Lehto on Right to Repair
[video]
Author : danuker
Score : 207 points
Date : 2021-05-01 08:44 UTC (14 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.youtube.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.youtube.com)
| texs0987 wrote:
| I really hope his ballot initiative fund raising succeeds [0]!
| Maybe one day everything will be repairable again
|
| [0] https://www.gofundme.com/f/lets-get-right-to-repair-passed
| javchz wrote:
| Hope "Right to repair" keeps its momentum. Not for being cheap
| but for a lower downtime and re-use opportunities in developing
| countries and low-income houses.
|
| My retina MacBook pro overheated and needed a paste replacement
| and fan cleaning. I live in a small city in Mexico, so no there
| is no local Apple Store. Results: 2 weeks without a computer
| while being in the shop.
|
| Now I use an old Thinkpad T440p, it's older and cheaper than the
| MacBook, but faster because I was able to upgrade the CPU and
| RAM... and probably will support new versions of Linux and
| windows for another 5 years at least (I have no idea what will
| happen to Intel MacOS). Yeah, it's heavier, and the screen it's
| bad. But it's reliable and can be repaired everywhere, a lot of
| places don't accept Apple laptops because they are painful to
| repair, let alone upgrade.
|
| Why the comparison of orange to apples? (no pun intended) even
| without covid and chip shortage, here in Mexico, it's really hard
| to get access to hardware for anything less than one or two
| months worth of salary for the average worker. And thanks to old
| laptops that are easy to repair like the Thinkpads, Dell
| precisions, or HP EliteBooks. A lot of people here were able to
| re-use 2nd hand corporate hardware with something like 70% of the
| capabilities of a modern computer (not top of the line) for a 1/3
| of the price.
|
| Those machines just require a little bit of care and time.
| Something people in developing countries have, but people in a
| good position will probably prefer just to get something new for
| the convenience.
|
| So yeah, the right to repair can help not only corporations
| reducing downtime, but the world reducing e-waste and adding real
| opportunities for developing countries repurposing old hardware
| that's still good.
| xxs wrote:
| >Why the comparison of orange to apples? (no pun intended)
|
| They are almost the same internally, similar processors,
| similar batteries, similar GPU/memory, PCH, etc.
|
| >My retina MacBook pro overheated and needed a paste
| replacement and fan cleaning
|
| This should be rather trivial job - likely 25-30mins if you
| have the pentalobe screwdriver.
| Laarlf wrote:
| I have replaced the thermal paste on a 2016 MBP before and
| that was far from trivial. It took close to 2 hours and
| everything felt very stuck. It was overall a bad experience.
|
| Even though Thinkpads like the old xx20 and xx30 series
| require more parts to come off, they are easier and faster to
| replace the thermal paste on. Nothing feels as awfully stuck,
| overengineered and way too small as on the Macbook. Newer
| business Notebooks from Lelnovo and Dell are even better with
| that.
| jchw wrote:
| I've opened a Macbook. It would be irresponsible to recommend
| someone attempt to do this unless they somewhat experienced.
| There is a reason why iFixit gives most newer Macbook Pros a
| 1/10 repairability, and it is not an anti-Apple conspiracy;
| they're tricky devices.
| Nextgrid wrote:
| > if you have the pentalobe screwdriver
|
| This is already a problem - what's the reason they couldn't
| use a standard screw beyond making it intentionally more
| difficult to repair?
|
| Screws are still relatively tame and easy to work around but
| I'm sure if they could come up with some smart, DRM-powered
| screw that only an official, Apple screwdriver could open
| (after an online check) they'd do it.
| Proven wrote:
| > Hope "Right to repair" keeps its momentum.
|
| You can hope all you want, but you're just repeating a lie.
|
| There's only one right, which is the right to your property.
|
| To the extent you own a phone or other device, you can repair
| it, break it, or do something else with it.
|
| But that is not the fake "right to repair" that busybodies are
| talking about.
|
| You want the government to coerce the manufacturer to do
| business with you on your terms. You're not trying to excercise
| your right (you can do it today, no one cares what you do with
| your computer) but force, by employing the state to do your
| bidding, like cartels employ thugs.
|
| > My retina MacBook pro overheated and needed a paste
| replacement and fan cleaning. I live in a small city in Mexico,
| so no there is no local Apple Store. Results: 2 weeks without a
| computer while being in the shop.
|
| Does that gives you the right to force Apple to sell you their
| products on your terms? Buy a different computer, buy two
| computers, or wait for two weeks!
| qalmakka wrote:
| Right to repair is not about being cheap, it is about not
| caving in to the needs of an industry that doesn't know how to
| be profitable in a world without consumerism.
|
| Nowadays phones are much more powerful than ever, and can thus
| last much longer without becoming obsolete. Lots of people
| (including myself with my Galaxy S8+) are still holding on 3
| years old phones, and I honestly don't see any reason to change
| it any time soon, given that it still works really well.
|
| In a world devastated by the amount of waste we produce it's
| morally intolerable to force people to throw away what still
| works and serves them well.
| Netcob wrote:
| I only upgraded from a OnePlus 3T to a 6T because the former
| got stolen. I hope LineageOS becomes stable enough on the 6T
| so that I can keep using an Android OS with recent security
| patches, but like most phones, the battery will probably be
| the first thing to give up.
|
| Many of my earlier smartphones had batteries that were easily
| replaced. The 6T requires special tools, among them a heat
| gun to soften the glue on the back cover. And ifixit says
| that's "moderate difficulty".
| threatofrain wrote:
| I would frame the right to repair as the public's desire to
| understand and manage the total cost of ownership for the
| decisions they make. For simpler goods such as clothing or
| bags people already have this "inherent" right.
|
| Cheap wouldn't be my way to put it either, but predictable
| pricing of repairs is part of understanding the total cost of
| ownership.
| hellow0rldz wrote:
| > Right to repair is not about being cheap, is about not
| caving in to the needs of an industry that doesn't know how
| to be profitable in a world without consumerism.
|
| Beautiful.
|
| Note that the industry does know how: it's called planned
| obsolescence. But the replacement rate is not good enough if
| people get to also repair their stuff.
| SuchAnonMuchWow wrote:
| Also with Moore's law dying there is less and less need to
| upgrade the hardware, and the semiconductor industry will
| push more and more planned obsolescence.
| mroche wrote:
| Responding to this from an iPhone 6 (non-S) purchased in
| either late 2014 or early 2015. This phone doesn't have the
| latest and greatest software/hardware (version locked at iOS
| 12), but it does its job and does it well enough that I
| haven't had to pay for a phone in 4 years.
|
| It's definitely slowed down and the battery is rated at 76%
| capacity now, but it can still browse the web, play a handful
| of games I occasionally open, and handle the few social apps
| I use.
|
| When it comes to browsing, JS and animation heavy sites can
| tank performance though, e.g. Apple's product pages and
| https://blloc.com
|
| I'm only just starting to consider getting a new phone, but
| am willing to wait till the fall if I can to see if Apple
| brings back TouchID with the iPhone 12s/13 or whatever they
| choose to name the upcoming models.
| ohazi wrote:
| > and the battery is rated at 76% capacity now
|
| I hate this. I was a holdout with an LG G5 (last flagship-
| esque phone with a removable battery), and went through
| three battery replacements until the GPS antenna failed,
| and now I have an LG V35 with a potted battery.
|
| I wasn't able to find a way to configure the charge
| controller with software, so now I just never plug in
| overnight and try really hard to manually unplug it before
| it reaches ~70 or 80%.
|
| This works... The phone is ~2.5 years old and the battery
| is still fairly close to nominal capacity. I just wish it
| wasn't such a pain.
|
| This "new" phone is also well out of the support window, so
| I haven't gotten Android or security updates in over a
| year, and it had limited enough release that custom ROMs
| are not an option. With LG leaving the market, I'm
| considering gritting my teeth and getting an iPhone when
| this one dies, if only for the longer software/security
| support window, which feels absolutely ridiculous.
| Scene_Cast2 wrote:
| If you're rooted, you can use Advanced Charge Controller
| App. Gets you a charge limit and charge rate throttling.
| jve wrote:
| Perhaps buy an old school timer outlet and before
| charing, set it to turn off after x mins.
|
| I think you can estimate how much time it does take to
| charge from x to 80.
|
| Or for folks who have home assistant and some
| controllable socket - automation should be possible as
| mobile phone reports battery charge!
| fsflover wrote:
| > This phone doesn't have the latest and greatest
| software/hardware (version locked at iOS 12), but it does
| its job
|
| I hope you do not browse the Internet on it, since a lot of
| security bugs are probably not fixed in its browser (and
| you're not allowed to install another one). So you put all
| your data on the phone at risk when using the Internet.
| ratww wrote:
| That's false.
|
| iOS 12 gets security updates every few months or so. The
| last update, 12.5.2, was a little over a month ago: March
| 26.
|
| Source: I also have an old phone.
| fsflover wrote:
| Thanks, I stand corrected. Do you expect it to last
| though?
| HeyLaughingBoy wrote:
| > Hope "Right to repair" keeps its momentum
|
| As someone who believes in running things until they simply
| aren't worth fixing any more, I wholeheartedly agree. I have a
| riding snowblower built in 1983, a riding lawnmower built in
| 2005, most of the computers I've owned in the last 10 years
| have been bought used (generally off-lease from large corps),
| we haven't bought a new car since 2005, etc., etc.
|
| I'm a huge believer in buying used stuff and I think the rush
| to upgrade to the latest phone, etc., "just cuz" is a tragedy.
| Learning how to open up old radios and appliances and repair
| them was a strong push in me wanting to become an engineer.
|
| Now, I'll admit that a large part of the reason I repair things
| is to save money (and the pride in getting them running again),
| but I really don't think the individual motivations matter.
| What matters is that we're _able_ to do this if we need or want
| to and not hampered by arbitrary restrictions.
| chalst wrote:
| Repairability was the single largest reason for my move from an
| iPhone to a Fairphone.
| [deleted]
| imglorp wrote:
| Aside from repair, the wider issue is, do you own your device and
| can you do what you want with it? There are three angles.
|
| First, in the law as Lehto points out, if they put obstacles to
| you modifying your device, things stray from Magnuson-Moss into
| antitrust territory.
|
| Second is the war on general purpose computing [1] where the
| corporations want you to have a curated, walled garden experience
| with no liberties of your device or the content it's carrying.
|
| And third, germane to a device maker, of course this gets into
| planned obsolescence as well. There's no conspiracy here, just
| economics going back 30's where a new car every 2 years was
| viewed as essential to the car makers.
|
| 1. https://boingboing.net/2012/01/10/lockdown.html
| intricatedetail wrote:
| I can see why companies are hiding schematics. Until early 90s
| for almost every product you could get schematics, calibration
| procedures, all the tech drawings and most parts (but you could
| still get e.g. preprogrammed PAL or CPLD chips from the
| manufacturer). This all changed when Chinese companies started
| copying everything that sells. Current situation is a by product
| of that, state inaction and corporate greed. We should really
| look at relationship with China and start proper sanctions before
| opening up. I support right to repair, but it will only let
| Chinese companies steal designs much easier.
| simion314 wrote:
| Please stop the political FUD.
|
| 1 The schematics are already on the web (so China can download
| them)
|
| 2 the iPhones are made in China(hope you are not shocked or
| have some health insurance for you paranoia, imagine what does
| evil Chinese factories put into your iPhone!!!) so China
| already has not only the repair schematics but all the
| blueprints for assembling stuff.
|
| 3 China has competent people that could open a phone or laptop
| and make a repair schematic from scratch
|
| Conclusion, China already has the schematics, your argument is
| FUD or a conspiracy to prevent non-Chinese to get legal access
| to those schematics.
| Bancakes wrote:
| Thankfully Clevo doesn't think a bunch of printed circuitry can
| be patented, and gladly supplied System76 (guys who made
| Pop_OS! and sell laptops) with schematics.
| tmotwu wrote:
| No, lets be honest, this did not "change" for the reasons you
| listed. Mainboards are all manufactured in China. Right to
| repair advocates are not looking for manufacturing processes,
| silicon designs or calibration procedures. All of which
| suppliers in China already have and YOU, the owner of the
| product, do not. China is probably already way ahead than
| anybody else in that area.
|
| It is a misleading conflation, a complete dishonest lie, by
| opponents of right to repair. They always say "I support right
| to repair" then add "concerns" that absolutely do not apply.
| Right to repair folks aren't trying to replicate the microchip
| here. They are trying to replace a blown capacitor or a damaged
| resistor. They want to understand which parts are needed so
| they can execute the job properly. How power cycles through a
| board is not a magical trade secret.
| rightbyte wrote:
| > They are trying to replace ... a damaged resistor
|
| Is that a common failure mode? I know caps pop willy nilly.
| And protection diods. But resistors?
| bearbin wrote:
| Electrical failure is relatively rare, but resistors are
| just as susceptible to mechanical and liquid damage, which
| is probably a more common failure than electrical
| degradation. Or a failure could cascade from another
| component and pop the resistor too.
| claaams wrote:
| corrosion from water damage maybe
| okigan wrote:
| https://www.gofundme.com/f/lets-get-right-to-repair-passed
|
| This needs to be posted more often
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(page generated 2021-05-01 23:02 UTC)