[HN Gopher] Perfectly Ordinary Stones, Carried for 1,300 Years (...
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       Perfectly Ordinary Stones, Carried for 1,300 Years (2014)
        
       Author : ColinWright
       Score  : 81 points
       Date   : 2021-04-30 11:50 UTC (11 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (ishimochi.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (ishimochi.com)
        
       | Anther wrote:
       | I rather enjoyed the way that website loaded on my iPhone.
        
         | SamBam wrote:
         | I'm guessing it scrolled up from the bottom - it did them same
         | on my desktop.
         | 
         | Yes, I liked it too. I normally dislike any kind of "messing
         | with" my scroll, but here it seemed quite appropriate, if
         | confusing at first.
        
         | Lucent wrote:
         | Trying to get the first ever CLS score over 1.
        
       | jeffrallen wrote:
       | This is an excellent project! I wish it success.
       | 
       | I am taking one photo per season of one particular tree in my
       | commune's forest.
       | 
       | This woman has been taking self portraits once a year for 17
       | years, with last year's photo in this year's:
       | https://www.ignant.com/2019/01/21/the-mother-as-creator-a-ph...
       | 
       | We need more long, slow art projects.
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | wgjordan wrote:
       | Reminds me of the Stone of Scone, a perfectly ordinary stone
       | carried for over 1,000 years and used in the coronation of
       | English monarchs:
       | 
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stone_of_Scone
        
         | metalliqaz wrote:
         | carried?
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | max-ibel wrote:
         | And don't forget the Scone of Stone!
         | 
         | https://wiki.lspace.org/mediawiki/Scone_of_Stone
        
       | metalliqaz wrote:
       | https://web.archive.org/web/20210430115236/https://ishimochi...
        
       | LasangaCode wrote:
       | The mayor and the monk didn't pass the stone on after 5 years :/
        
       | mavhc wrote:
       | Scroll down for the English translation, rather than read the
       | autotranslated Japanese
        
       | marmshallow wrote:
       | Someone is gonna sell theirs on Ebay (or as it's known 1000 years
       | from now, Eblork).
        
       | blackboxlogic wrote:
       | Which will last longer, the stones or the website. Between ssl
       | certs expiring, embedded google map, hosting provider, dns,
       | etc... I'd bet on the stones.
        
       | EGreg wrote:
       | LMAO! Anyone can claim to be carrying these ordinary stones, just
       | like they can claim to be Anonymous, or that Bill Murray said no
       | one will ever believe you. Also if someone loses the stones they
       | can just pick up some new ones later...
        
         | mitchdoogle wrote:
         | Their names are listed on the website. It'd be hard to convince
         | someone you've got the stone if your name isn't listed there
        
           | EGreg wrote:
           | Maybe they can do like NFT stones. Or a merkle tree of
           | stones. Maybe each person has to bring 3 new people into the
           | stones society haha
        
       | glxxyz wrote:
       | I like that they put all the table rows in for the next 1300
       | years. Reminds me of someone numbering a music collection and
       | starting optimistically with 0000001 (they usually gave up at
       | about 000005).
        
       | vivekv wrote:
       | Have they started selling NFT on those stones yet?
        
       | booleandilemma wrote:
       | I'd hate to be the guy that loses one of these things.
        
         | JoeAltmaier wrote:
         | I'd guess they are lost already. Or in a drawer. Once the
         | initial excitement is gone, ...
        
         | AppleCandy wrote:
         | The author tries to convince that these stones are so ordinary,
         | ostensibly to argue that they will not be stolen. However,
         | watch what happens as these stones start to develop a
         | provenance and get photographed and documented along the way.
         | 
         | Reading this I had a flicker of desire to steal "Lily of the
         | valley", and likewise this desire to take hold of such a rare
         | coveted object will grow in the hearts of man over the
         | centuries. What gives something value is not always its
         | intrinsic worth, but also how it takes hold in the public
         | consciousness. Just look at worthless NFTs.
         | 
         | And so starts the secret brotherhood of stone-keepers who will
         | fend off the evil advances of those who would break the sacred
         | lineage. Or, liars will introduce new stones to inflate the
         | supply and claim to be sacred stone-keepers. So let's put a
         | blockchain around this thing and be done with it.
        
           | tnzm wrote:
           | How would you ensure correspondence between the stone and the
           | NFT though?
        
             | criddell wrote:
             | Could you do something similar to how sports memorabilia is
             | marked?
        
             | lapetitejort wrote:
             | Deconstruct the stone and reform it as a series of gates
             | which can be turned on and off by applying electricity. I
             | will leave the rest as an exercise for the reader.
        
             | trhway wrote:
             | you can engrave the stone at specific depth inside (i.e.
             | not on the surface) by using proton accelerator.
        
             | tom_mellior wrote:
             | How would you ensure the correspondence between anything
             | and an NFT? You don't. That's why the parent called them
             | worthless.
        
               | smabie wrote:
               | You can destroy the original meats pace version
        
           | pierrebai wrote:
           | Multiple secret societies, some protecting an obscure (but in
           | reality, quite harmless and worthless) item, some protecting
           | the first, some trying to infiltrate, some completely made
           | up?
           | 
           | Umberto Eco and Pynchon would be proud.
        
       | jacquesm wrote:
       | Prediction: they'll be lost.
       | 
       | Why?
       | 
       | Because things that do not have intrinsic value tend to get lost
       | at a very high rate and things that do have intrinsic value tend
       | to get stolen, and then are lost.
       | 
       | If it happened to 99.99% of all the works of humanity from 1300
       | years ago, including some very precious ones it will almost
       | definitely end the same way for these none-precious stones.
       | 
       | This is a study in provenance, especially because there isn't
       | anything special about the stones other than being 'the ones',
       | and I like the project as such but the cynic in me can't help but
       | look around and fail to see even a single object from that long
       | ago that didn't have a whole religious order dedicated to keeping
       | it protected through centuries of upheaval and turmoil.
       | 
       | That said, I wish the stone keepers the best of luck and I _do_
       | hope that it will work, but the value for me is in thinking about
       | the project and its consequences, not so much in the execution.
        
         | bombcar wrote:
         | It needs to be either entirely precious, entirely worthless
         | (and buried), or exceptionally large. Nobody has stolen the
         | pyramids yet.
        
           | jacquesm wrote:
           | The Pharaos had the right idea there. And they seem to have
           | admirably succeeded in their goal. They picked their stones
           | the right size!
        
           | gus_massa wrote:
           | Is this close enough?
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Simbel#Relocation
        
           | pierrebai wrote:
           | Well, the smooth cover of the pyramids have been stolen and
           | the pyramids have been used as source material for building
           | in the past. So, not stolen in its entirety, but damaged.
           | 
           | What I would think is that some, if not all, of the ordinary
           | stones will indeed by lost, but then surreptitiously replaced
           | by others (after all, they have no identifiable properties).
           | 
           | 1300 years from now, there will be stones, but the not the
           | original ones. I think it fits the purpose perfectly, just
           | like purported official Christian relics.
        
             | NegativeLatency wrote:
             | Don't forget about the contents of the pyramids which have
             | also been removed (mummies and such)
        
             | TuringNYC wrote:
             | >> What I would think is that some, if not all, of the
             | ordinary stones will indeed by lost, but then
             | surreptitiously replaced by others (after all, they have no
             | identifiable properties).
             | 
             | While not ideal, even that may be OK to some extent --
             | perhaps the valuable thing is the soul of what you are
             | carrying. I think of it like a University or a specific
             | house of worship. Yes, there are physical assets, but the
             | real assets (the people) come, contribute, leave but the
             | soul of the organization lasts for hundreds of years.
        
         | fnord77 wrote:
         | stick a bluetooth tracker on them!
        
           | Exuma wrote:
           | AirTag is our most innovative project yet!
        
       | bmmayer1 wrote:
       | > Among the people there are non-Japanese
       | 
       | I find it quaint the idea that where will be a concept of
       | "Japanese" and "non-Japanese" in 1300 years from now.
       | 
       | If you assume the rate of progress is fixed (which it isn't, as
       | we know, it accelerates), you can get some sense of how
       | farfetched this idea is. 1300 years ago was the year 721 CE.
       | There was no unified Japan then[1] (nor likely even a concept of
       | "Japanese" identity as most imperial practices were modeled from
       | China), nor was there a "Europe," a "Mexico," or a "South
       | Africa." There certainly wasn't the notion of national identity
       | in the modern sense, as such concepts would have been alien to
       | village-dwellers living under feudal lords.
       | 
       | After many cycles of political consolidation and fracturing, it
       | is unlikely in 1300 years there will be a unified Japan; but,
       | more likely, the entire pan-Asian sphere will have been unified
       | (probably under China), if not under the purview of a world
       | government. Sino-Japanese languages will probably mix
       | Australasian language groups, borrowing heavily from English,
       | creating a dialect that would sound as alien to us as Chaucer
       | does now[2].
       | 
       | In 1300 years, global warming will render a good portion of the
       | planet uninhabitable without artificial climate controls, and new
       | parts of the planet never before populated will experience a
       | flourishing of new development. Major cities will develop in
       | hitherto uninhabited land in Siberia, Canada and elsewhere,
       | probably creating new power centers we can't even begin to
       | contemplate. New nations will rise and challenge dominant
       | superpowers for position. There will be at least one more major
       | global war in the next millennium, which could result in a
       | complete shift of power, or nuclear winter or annihilation of a
       | good % of humanity.
       | 
       | And they think some stones are going to survive.
       | 
       | [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nara_period
       | [2]https://mypoeticside.com/poets/geoffrey-chaucer-poems
        
         | ansible wrote:
         | > _In 1300 years, global warming will render a good portion of
         | the planet uninhabitable without artificial climate
         | controls..._
         | 
         | The way things are going, that is looking like less than 100
         | years. The increasing pollution and degradation of the
         | biosphere, rising sea levels and more will drastically change
         | civilization.
         | 
         | And even if those things don't take us out, the robot uprising
         | / Singularity / whatever is highly likely to completely destroy
         | civilization, and in the best-case scenario, replace it with
         | something better.
        
         | d_silin wrote:
         | Under exponential model assumptions, in 1300 years humanity
         | will spread into neighbouring star systems, with Earth most
         | likely to be depopulated and left as a nature preserve.
        
         | JJMcJ wrote:
         | > a "Europe"
         | 
         | Closest was probably the concept of Christendom, the part of
         | the world unified by the Christian religion. Remember both the
         | Catholic/Orthodox and Catholic/Protestant splits were well in
         | the future.
        
         | smiley1437 wrote:
         | > And they think some stones are going to survive.
         | 
         | Perhaps the point is to foster long-term thinking, a bit like
         | the ideas of "The Long Now" foundation
         | 
         | https://longnow.org/
        
         | jacquesm wrote:
         | Oh, the stones will survive. It's just that nobody will care
         | about those particular stones.
         | 
         | And your observation about the long term effects of our actions
         | (which themselves are accelerating in frequency and impact) on
         | climate, the world in general and human structures and concepts
         | is spot on, it is a special kind of delusional that declaring a
         | couple of stones special will have a long term effect on those
         | particular stones. At the same time, it _did_ lead to some
         | interesting insights so in a way the value has already been
         | delivered, even if the stones are lost tomorrow.
        
         | majormajor wrote:
         | > If you assume the rate of progress is fixed (which it isn't,
         | as we know, it accelerates), you can get some sense of how
         | farfetched this idea is. 1300 years ago was the year 721 CE.
         | There was no unified Japan then[1] (nor likely even a concept
         | of "Japanese" identity as most imperial practices were modeled
         | from China), nor was there a "Europe," a "Mexico," or a "South
         | Africa." There certainly wasn't the notion of national identity
         | in the modern sense, as such concepts would have been alien to
         | village-dwellers living under feudal lords.
         | 
         | The rate of progress can decrease, and even go negative!
         | 
         | Consider the concepts of empire and identity from 700 years
         | before your year 721 CE that were entirely replaced by smaller,
         | less-advanced ones.
         | 
         | Though I would also be surprised if anything like Japan, China,
         | the US, or Europe as we know them today are recognizable in
         | 1300 years, whether because of advance or collapse (or both!).
         | 
         | But some traditions I expect to survive. They'd just be
         | identified as part of whatever the new resulting cultures are
         | that inherited them.
        
         | marcosdumay wrote:
         | > In 1300 years, global warming will render a good portion of
         | the planet uninhabitable without artificial climate controls
         | 
         | The idea of predicting the effects of global warming 1000 years
         | in the future is really absurd. You are understating your point
         | here, at our current rate of consumption, our fossil fuels will
         | last for 200 years at (a highly inflated) maximum. Global
         | warming as we know it is meaningless after that time period.
         | Odds are there will be some crisis about too much _consumption_
         | of atmospheric CO2 before that.
        
         | qsort wrote:
         | I mean, it's fun to speculate, but anyone who claims to have
         | any idea of what's going to happen literally more than a
         | thousand years from now is just full of crap.
         | 
         | Even predicting 20 years ahead is almost impossible. 1300 is
         | just fiction.
        
           | bmmayer1 wrote:
           | Well, yeah, otherwise I would be a Dogecoin millionaire by
           | now :)
        
             | qsort wrote:
             | Yeah sure (didn't mean to say that was you, re-reading the
             | comment I'm noticing the wording was unfortunate), just
             | wanted to point out how far removed such a span of time is
             | from our usual horizon.
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | twic wrote:
       | They should try to get the organists at St. Burchardi to look
       | after one of them.
        
       | irrational wrote:
       | Looks like the Mayor and the Buddhist Monk are already messing
       | things up, judging by the chart at the bottom.
        
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       (page generated 2021-04-30 23:02 UTC)