[HN Gopher] Learn Linux without internet and stack overflow: Lin...
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       Learn Linux without internet and stack overflow: Linux HOWTOs
        
       Author : hansor
       Score  : 234 points
       Date   : 2021-04-30 10:18 UTC (12 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (tldp.org)
 (TXT) w3m dump (tldp.org)
        
       | andi999 wrote:
       | For me it was, without HOWTOs you couldnt get anything done.
        
       | durnygbur wrote:
       | I have a dedicated private git repository for classic, awesome,
       | and useful programming material serving as local offline
       | knowledge base, and it awaits for content like this.
        
       | hliyan wrote:
       | What tool can I use to simply create and manage text files like
       | these? Something that can indent and wrap using spaces rather
       | than rich formatting. https://tldp.org/HOWTO/text/DHCP
        
         | EnigmaCurry wrote:
         | In Emacs, hit Alt-Q (fill-paragraph), which will line-wrap and
         | preserve your current line indent.
        
       | throwaway823882 wrote:
       | I gained the skills to become a Systems Admin when I was 17 by
       | reading and following HOWTOs. I keep telling myself I will start
       | writing new HOWTOs and publish them there, because the blog-spam
       | instructions of today make it take 10x longer to get things done.
       | Would anybody else write new HOWTOs?
        
         | hansor wrote:
         | Same here. With those HOWTOs I was able to learn networking
         | from scratch in home without actually having internet
         | connection. Good times :)
         | 
         | > Would anybody else write new HOWTOs?
         | 
         | I always wanted to, but because I'm not native English speaker
         | I was always afraid to publish anything.
         | 
         | Still i think it could be very beneficial - especially that we
         | all observed dozen of forums and websites just vanished over
         | the last decade or two, but those documents are available to
         | all as simple Linux package.
        
           | megous wrote:
           | Barely anybody will care about your English if you'll write
           | about something people want to know about, or if you're just
           | sharing your passion. I publish bunch of technical writings
           | ad hoc, just because I like to share about something I worked
           | on with Pinephone (https://xnux.eu/) and other things, and
           | nobody ever commented about the language.
        
           | throwaway823882 wrote:
           | I'd volunteer as an English editor! I know I would want
           | someone to help me translate into other languages.
        
           | JasonFruit wrote:
           | If this comment is any evidence, your English is good enough
           | that I would be able to learn from what you write.
        
           | Skunkleton wrote:
           | Your writing doesn't give you away as a non-native English
           | speaker. Please write HOWTOs!
        
         | marmot777 wrote:
         | Yeah, if you do a web search on nearly everything you find
         | articles by people who know what they are doing and a bunch of
         | articles that seem to be, more or less, copies of the original
         | articles by those who really know there stuff. It doesn't seem
         | like search engines necessarily reward quality or up-to-date
         | how-to's but maybe that's a really difficult for search engines
         | to discern high quality content from okay content. It seems
         | like okay content rises to the top if there's a lot of it.
         | 
         | I usually look at at least two sources for cross referencing
         | and can find how to do just about anything, though I trust some
         | sources to get it right most of the time. Digital Ocean has
         | done a good job of developing a strong set of how-To's for nuts
         | and bolts things you might want to do on a VPS (aka droplet).
         | 
         | Beyond that, I just do web searches and if a couple respectable
         | looking sites agree on something, I tend to trust it. It'd be
         | cool if there really were sort of a clearing house of curated
         | list of the top Linux how to sites out there with sites that
         | get abandoned sort of identified as such kind of like a repo
         | that's not being updated. Abadoneware is an issue but abandoned
         | how to websites are super common. It's hard to keep writing and
         | keeping a site current year after year so it's not surprising.
         | 
         | As someone who's written documentation, I know how hard it is
         | to write a good how to. To really write a good how to you have
         | to really understand what you're writing about and actually run
         | through it to make sure your instructions work and are clear to
         | the reader. Hat's off to anyone who writes real docs not just
         | cobbling together content for SEO and letting it stagnate.
         | 
         | Anyway, are there any curated clearinghouses with links to the
         | best maintained sets of howtos on different things such as
         | commands, scripting, sys admin, and just articles on how to be
         | more efficient on Linux?
        
       | marmot777 wrote:
       | Here's a few how to style sites that I've found useful for
       | everything from small things to big projects:
       | 
       | These are general things that might seem too basic but there are
       | some gems in there. Everyone, even really experienced users, can
       | have gaps in their knowledge of basics: https://github.com/you-
       | dont-need/You-Dont-Need-GUI
       | 
       | Julie Evans doesn't right just about Linux but when she writes a
       | how-to she really puts the time in to do it well:
       | https://jvns.ca/
       | 
       | DigitalOcean has the best set of how-to docs I know of for a web
       | hosting company: https://www.digitalocean.com/community/tutorials
       | 
       | I have less experience with them but Linode seems to do a good
       | job on how to docs too: https://www.linode.com/resources/
       | 
       | And there's man pages and the like, too, but man pages can be a
       | bit cumbersome for learning more than some options and basic use
       | of a command.
       | 
       | Any other sites that people think are best for Linux in general,
       | specialized areas like shells and scripting, distro specific
       | sites, etc.? I'd save those sites and return to them first then
       | do a web search if not enough there.
        
         | greenie_beans wrote:
         | Ditto on Julia Evans and Digital Ocean.
         | 
         | Also, do the reddit.com/r/linuxupskillchallenge. You'll learn a
         | new piece each day. (Rest in peace snori74)
        
       | 29athrowaway wrote:
       | As a new Linux user, those HOWTOs where essential to get stuff
       | done back in the 90s.
       | 
       | I remember having read many of those HOWTOs as a kid when I got
       | started with Red Hat Linux 5.2.
        
       | cheschire wrote:
       | Linux From Scratch (LFS) taught me the depths of Linux. TLDP
       | taught me the breadth.
        
         | megous wrote:
         | Another one here. My first real IT job was building a LFS based
         | distro in 2005. :) It was fun. Though I was coming in with a
         | year of Slackware experience already, so following some
         | commands and dealing with build issues was not a new thing to
         | me.
         | 
         | So I at least based it on m4 generated shell based build system
         | scripts and my slackware package manager I wrote at that time.
         | https://spkg.megous.com/
         | 
         | Moved to Arch Linux shortly after.
        
       | teddyh wrote:
       | I was going to link to the venerable collection of Usenet FAQs at
       | rtfm.mit.edu, but the server seems down at the moment. (I seem to
       | recall using it a few weeks ago.)
        
       | _benj wrote:
       | Those HOWTOs where what started me on Linux back in Slackware
       | time when I'd order CDs of it because downloading those ISO with
       | dialup was almost impossible. Good times!
        
       | runjake wrote:
       | For those not paying close attention, TLDP hasn't been updated in
       | about 6 years, but much of it hasn't been updated in 15-20 years.
       | 
       | Just keep using the Internet (ServerFault/Digital
       | Ocean/ArchWiki/Ubuntu Wiki/etc) and man pages.
        
         | InfiniteRand wrote:
         | Do you know why it was abandoned?
        
           | asveikau wrote:
           | I haven't looked, but I imagine a lot of info is now dated. I
           | remember reading HOWTOs about topics like how to set up dial-
           | up and edit XF86Config.
        
           | hansor wrote:
           | Internet and Google. Seriously.
        
           | throwaway823882 wrote:
           | I did some digging. There are still people working on it, but
           | the updates aren't going to the front page. All the work
           | seems to be buried in random e-mails on multiple mailing
           | lists, and this GitHub repo https://github.com/tldp
           | 
           | I think the one or two people who are still working on it
           | have been abandoned and need our support. I think if we can
           | find who has access to the web servers, we could convince
           | them to let volunteers put a fresh coat of paint on it and
           | start publishing some new articles with a lower barrier to
           | entry.
        
         | jedimastert wrote:
         | I've found Digital Ocean and Archwiki especially to be
         | incredible resources
        
         | johnwheeler wrote:
         | I was going to say... some of these are so dated. I haven't
         | thought about LILO for 15 years or so.
        
         | loloquwowndueo wrote:
         | But man pages are man pages, not HOWTOs and thus don't tell you
         | ... how to :)
        
           | Skunkleton wrote:
           | This is often true, but many man pages have a pretty good
           | examples section. Sometimes these are good enough, and are at
           | least worth checking for.
        
           | marmot777 wrote:
           | I have to confess, I use man pages for a quick thing I want
           | to know such as options. For how to, man pages aren't
           | structured to teach step by step like a how to. A how to is
           | like a tutorial or instruction manual and I think man pages
           | are like reference books.
        
       | kulix425 wrote:
       | Who's gonna tell em?
        
       | porbelm wrote:
       | Slackware, HOWTOs and Usenet was how to learn this shit back in
       | the day. And damn if it didn't make a bunch of fine admins,
       | 'cause you basically had to fuck up a whole lot and that's good
       | for learnin'
        
       | kristianpaul wrote:
       | I rather learn from Arch Linux or Gentoo wikis which are way up
       | to date.
        
       | alfiedotwtf wrote:
       | Wow, totally forgot HOWTOs existed. I'm betting a lot of us here
       | learned Linux via HOWTOs more than any other resource.
        
       | type0 wrote:
       | For beginners Linux Journey is a good resource, even if it is
       | incomplete and slightly dated https://linuxjourney.com/ but it
       | isn't outdated like tldp
        
       | phren0logy wrote:
       | My favorite resource: https://linuxcommand.org/tlcl.php
       | 
       | "The Linux Command Line", also available in dead-tree version
       | from No Starch Press. The PDF of the Fifth Edition is available
       | for free from the link above.
        
         | ByThyGrace wrote:
         | I find it funny that I have no idea how to open a pdf file in a
         | Linux terminal.
        
           | phren0logy wrote:
           | It's also 100% accessible via HTML, but in the spirit of the
           | "without internet" above I figured the PDF was easier for
           | beginner than a curl command.
        
         | justaj wrote:
         | > Last updated October 5, 2006
        
       | markwong wrote:
       | The tldp was especially useful for me when i was in university.
        
       | grafelic wrote:
       | https://github.com/lahwaacz/arch-wiki-docs as an alternative to
       | tldp for offline viewing. IMO the Arch wiki is the best Linux
       | configuration resource available.
        
         | iib wrote:
         | The arch wiki is also available offline as ZIM files, a type of
         | compressed file suited for text and indexing, used by Wikimedia
         | for its projects, and viewable through software like kiwix. It
         | also works as a general way of encoding html documents in a
         | single, compressed file, which I really like, but I could not
         | get their tools to work properly to convert some
         | unconventionally structured websites.
        
       | walton_simons wrote:
       | This brings back some great memories. I learned so much from the
       | HOWTOs, and I think they played a big part in getting me my first
       | proper tech job. I just had to sit and figure it out, and the
       | process of persevering through the mistakes and dead ends
       | ultimately gave me a level of confidence around computers and
       | technology in general which has been incredibly useful in work
       | and in life.
        
         | riskneutral wrote:
         | This brings back memories for me, but I don't know if they are
         | "great." I have memories of being in high school and
         | downloading Linux binaries and HOWTOs over a dial-up modem,
         | messing around with Debian on the family computer. So much of
         | my youth spent (wasted?) on this. I wish I had spent more time
         | making friends and playing sports, or learning something more
         | fundamental like math or programming. I don't even work in the
         | tech industry.
        
         | a-dub wrote:
         | agree. tldp combined with the tinkering necessary to make a
         | basic system function were a fantastic resource for learning
         | back in the day.
        
         | bakatubas wrote:
         | I second that--memories installing gentoo on iBook G4 and
         | getting the wireless to work felt like a nice accomplishment :)
         | 
         | Granted, the gentoo docs are really good so that's where I went
         | mostly.
        
           | noufalibrahim wrote:
           | If someone was running a non Ubuntu distro on a personal
           | laptop, I used it as a proxy for some amount of technical
           | ability and it was mostly justified.
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | qalmakka wrote:
       | I distinctly remember borrowing a copy of "Linux From Dummies"
       | from the public library and then using it to learn how to use the
       | Linux shell, back in the '00s. It even came with a CD of some
       | extremely old version of Red Hat.
        
         | orev wrote:
         | I think "Linux From Dummies" better describes the current trend
         | of blogspam that are all just copy/pastes of each other.
         | 
         | But back in the day, "Linux FOR Dummies" was quite popular.
        
       | znpy wrote:
       | I remember back in 2005-2005 when LinuxPro magazine gave a full
       | dvd containing ALL of the tldp howtos and stuff, and that was
       | kind of a sweet deal.
       | 
       | I never bought a magazine so fast in my life.
        
         | quink wrote:
         | Don't know about the "stuff", but Linux distros frequently
         | shipped with packages for the TLDP. Or rather whatever it was
         | know as at the time, some derivative of Linux HOWTOs or
         | linuxdoc.org.
        
       | alexpetralia wrote:
       | One of my favorite resources on Linux is this:
       | http://www.linfo.org/newbies.html
       | 
       | I have learned so much about low-level systems from these
       | encyclopedic (yet extremely simply written) articles.
       | 
       | Make sure to click into the links on things you don't know - it
       | is a very fun rabbit hole!
        
       | cbpowell wrote:
       | In 1994/5-ish I had a compendium of HOWTOs published in book form
       | called "DRx. Linux", put out by Linux System Labs. It was
       | awesome, and THE way to get Linux configured. Good memories.
        
       | savant_penguin wrote:
       | I really hope they add a bunch of examples.
       | 
       | The thing I miss the most about man pages is the total lack of
       | runnable examples
       | 
       | I get what I have to do 10 times faster from an example
       | (preferably one in which I can just substitute the target files)
       | than if I have to actually understand the manual lingo
        
       | desktopninja wrote:
       | Just feels right:                 echo cappuccino >/dev/coffee
       | 
       | Ref: https://tldp.org/HOWTO/html_single/Coffee/#ss4.1
        
       | bowlingx wrote:
       | I remember printing out the gentoo documentation back in the days
       | to do a stage-1 install with the only computer I had :D. This was
       | so much fun
        
       | gerikson wrote:
       | Last updated in 2015: https://tldp.org/sorted_howtos.html
        
         | rascul wrote:
         | There have been some updates in the Github repo since then
         | (https://github.com/tLDP/LDP/commits/master) but I don't notice
         | any new content. It was a great resource for me decades ago,
         | but now I understand TLDP to be mostly old and stale (and
         | sometimes arguably bad, such as the Advanced Bash-Scripting
         | Guide) and generally better sources can be easily found.
        
           | wycy wrote:
           | As someone who's not particularly great at bash, I don't know
           | enough to know if a guide I'm looking at is teaching old/bad
           | methods. Are there any notably good references for modern
           | bash?
        
             | rascul wrote:
             | I generally stick with the bash reference manual and
             | Wooledge's wiki. Not sure how good they are for people
             | unfamiliar with the material already.
             | 
             | https://www.gnu.org/software/bash/manual/html_node/index.ht
             | m...
             | 
             | https://mywiki.wooledge.org/BashGuide
        
           | _ZeD_ wrote:
           | What's bad about ABS? I remember I used that guide a lot back
           | in the days
        
             | rascul wrote:
             | Looking through the examples, I see lots of pitfalls such
             | as unquoted variables, backticks, no error checking, and
             | parsing ls. Also bash features such as [[ are ignored, and
             | expr is sometimes used for what bash handles natively. Also
             | there's a lot of new stuff that this old guide doesn't
             | cover.
        
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       (page generated 2021-04-30 23:01 UTC)