[HN Gopher] Learn Linux without internet and stack overflow: Lin...
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Learn Linux without internet and stack overflow: Linux HOWTOs
Author : hansor
Score : 234 points
Date : 2021-04-30 10:18 UTC (12 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (tldp.org)
(TXT) w3m dump (tldp.org)
| andi999 wrote:
| For me it was, without HOWTOs you couldnt get anything done.
| durnygbur wrote:
| I have a dedicated private git repository for classic, awesome,
| and useful programming material serving as local offline
| knowledge base, and it awaits for content like this.
| hliyan wrote:
| What tool can I use to simply create and manage text files like
| these? Something that can indent and wrap using spaces rather
| than rich formatting. https://tldp.org/HOWTO/text/DHCP
| EnigmaCurry wrote:
| In Emacs, hit Alt-Q (fill-paragraph), which will line-wrap and
| preserve your current line indent.
| throwaway823882 wrote:
| I gained the skills to become a Systems Admin when I was 17 by
| reading and following HOWTOs. I keep telling myself I will start
| writing new HOWTOs and publish them there, because the blog-spam
| instructions of today make it take 10x longer to get things done.
| Would anybody else write new HOWTOs?
| hansor wrote:
| Same here. With those HOWTOs I was able to learn networking
| from scratch in home without actually having internet
| connection. Good times :)
|
| > Would anybody else write new HOWTOs?
|
| I always wanted to, but because I'm not native English speaker
| I was always afraid to publish anything.
|
| Still i think it could be very beneficial - especially that we
| all observed dozen of forums and websites just vanished over
| the last decade or two, but those documents are available to
| all as simple Linux package.
| megous wrote:
| Barely anybody will care about your English if you'll write
| about something people want to know about, or if you're just
| sharing your passion. I publish bunch of technical writings
| ad hoc, just because I like to share about something I worked
| on with Pinephone (https://xnux.eu/) and other things, and
| nobody ever commented about the language.
| throwaway823882 wrote:
| I'd volunteer as an English editor! I know I would want
| someone to help me translate into other languages.
| JasonFruit wrote:
| If this comment is any evidence, your English is good enough
| that I would be able to learn from what you write.
| Skunkleton wrote:
| Your writing doesn't give you away as a non-native English
| speaker. Please write HOWTOs!
| marmot777 wrote:
| Yeah, if you do a web search on nearly everything you find
| articles by people who know what they are doing and a bunch of
| articles that seem to be, more or less, copies of the original
| articles by those who really know there stuff. It doesn't seem
| like search engines necessarily reward quality or up-to-date
| how-to's but maybe that's a really difficult for search engines
| to discern high quality content from okay content. It seems
| like okay content rises to the top if there's a lot of it.
|
| I usually look at at least two sources for cross referencing
| and can find how to do just about anything, though I trust some
| sources to get it right most of the time. Digital Ocean has
| done a good job of developing a strong set of how-To's for nuts
| and bolts things you might want to do on a VPS (aka droplet).
|
| Beyond that, I just do web searches and if a couple respectable
| looking sites agree on something, I tend to trust it. It'd be
| cool if there really were sort of a clearing house of curated
| list of the top Linux how to sites out there with sites that
| get abandoned sort of identified as such kind of like a repo
| that's not being updated. Abadoneware is an issue but abandoned
| how to websites are super common. It's hard to keep writing and
| keeping a site current year after year so it's not surprising.
|
| As someone who's written documentation, I know how hard it is
| to write a good how to. To really write a good how to you have
| to really understand what you're writing about and actually run
| through it to make sure your instructions work and are clear to
| the reader. Hat's off to anyone who writes real docs not just
| cobbling together content for SEO and letting it stagnate.
|
| Anyway, are there any curated clearinghouses with links to the
| best maintained sets of howtos on different things such as
| commands, scripting, sys admin, and just articles on how to be
| more efficient on Linux?
| marmot777 wrote:
| Here's a few how to style sites that I've found useful for
| everything from small things to big projects:
|
| These are general things that might seem too basic but there are
| some gems in there. Everyone, even really experienced users, can
| have gaps in their knowledge of basics: https://github.com/you-
| dont-need/You-Dont-Need-GUI
|
| Julie Evans doesn't right just about Linux but when she writes a
| how-to she really puts the time in to do it well:
| https://jvns.ca/
|
| DigitalOcean has the best set of how-to docs I know of for a web
| hosting company: https://www.digitalocean.com/community/tutorials
|
| I have less experience with them but Linode seems to do a good
| job on how to docs too: https://www.linode.com/resources/
|
| And there's man pages and the like, too, but man pages can be a
| bit cumbersome for learning more than some options and basic use
| of a command.
|
| Any other sites that people think are best for Linux in general,
| specialized areas like shells and scripting, distro specific
| sites, etc.? I'd save those sites and return to them first then
| do a web search if not enough there.
| greenie_beans wrote:
| Ditto on Julia Evans and Digital Ocean.
|
| Also, do the reddit.com/r/linuxupskillchallenge. You'll learn a
| new piece each day. (Rest in peace snori74)
| 29athrowaway wrote:
| As a new Linux user, those HOWTOs where essential to get stuff
| done back in the 90s.
|
| I remember having read many of those HOWTOs as a kid when I got
| started with Red Hat Linux 5.2.
| cheschire wrote:
| Linux From Scratch (LFS) taught me the depths of Linux. TLDP
| taught me the breadth.
| megous wrote:
| Another one here. My first real IT job was building a LFS based
| distro in 2005. :) It was fun. Though I was coming in with a
| year of Slackware experience already, so following some
| commands and dealing with build issues was not a new thing to
| me.
|
| So I at least based it on m4 generated shell based build system
| scripts and my slackware package manager I wrote at that time.
| https://spkg.megous.com/
|
| Moved to Arch Linux shortly after.
| teddyh wrote:
| I was going to link to the venerable collection of Usenet FAQs at
| rtfm.mit.edu, but the server seems down at the moment. (I seem to
| recall using it a few weeks ago.)
| _benj wrote:
| Those HOWTOs where what started me on Linux back in Slackware
| time when I'd order CDs of it because downloading those ISO with
| dialup was almost impossible. Good times!
| runjake wrote:
| For those not paying close attention, TLDP hasn't been updated in
| about 6 years, but much of it hasn't been updated in 15-20 years.
|
| Just keep using the Internet (ServerFault/Digital
| Ocean/ArchWiki/Ubuntu Wiki/etc) and man pages.
| InfiniteRand wrote:
| Do you know why it was abandoned?
| asveikau wrote:
| I haven't looked, but I imagine a lot of info is now dated. I
| remember reading HOWTOs about topics like how to set up dial-
| up and edit XF86Config.
| hansor wrote:
| Internet and Google. Seriously.
| throwaway823882 wrote:
| I did some digging. There are still people working on it, but
| the updates aren't going to the front page. All the work
| seems to be buried in random e-mails on multiple mailing
| lists, and this GitHub repo https://github.com/tldp
|
| I think the one or two people who are still working on it
| have been abandoned and need our support. I think if we can
| find who has access to the web servers, we could convince
| them to let volunteers put a fresh coat of paint on it and
| start publishing some new articles with a lower barrier to
| entry.
| jedimastert wrote:
| I've found Digital Ocean and Archwiki especially to be
| incredible resources
| johnwheeler wrote:
| I was going to say... some of these are so dated. I haven't
| thought about LILO for 15 years or so.
| loloquwowndueo wrote:
| But man pages are man pages, not HOWTOs and thus don't tell you
| ... how to :)
| Skunkleton wrote:
| This is often true, but many man pages have a pretty good
| examples section. Sometimes these are good enough, and are at
| least worth checking for.
| marmot777 wrote:
| I have to confess, I use man pages for a quick thing I want
| to know such as options. For how to, man pages aren't
| structured to teach step by step like a how to. A how to is
| like a tutorial or instruction manual and I think man pages
| are like reference books.
| kulix425 wrote:
| Who's gonna tell em?
| porbelm wrote:
| Slackware, HOWTOs and Usenet was how to learn this shit back in
| the day. And damn if it didn't make a bunch of fine admins,
| 'cause you basically had to fuck up a whole lot and that's good
| for learnin'
| kristianpaul wrote:
| I rather learn from Arch Linux or Gentoo wikis which are way up
| to date.
| alfiedotwtf wrote:
| Wow, totally forgot HOWTOs existed. I'm betting a lot of us here
| learned Linux via HOWTOs more than any other resource.
| type0 wrote:
| For beginners Linux Journey is a good resource, even if it is
| incomplete and slightly dated https://linuxjourney.com/ but it
| isn't outdated like tldp
| phren0logy wrote:
| My favorite resource: https://linuxcommand.org/tlcl.php
|
| "The Linux Command Line", also available in dead-tree version
| from No Starch Press. The PDF of the Fifth Edition is available
| for free from the link above.
| ByThyGrace wrote:
| I find it funny that I have no idea how to open a pdf file in a
| Linux terminal.
| phren0logy wrote:
| It's also 100% accessible via HTML, but in the spirit of the
| "without internet" above I figured the PDF was easier for
| beginner than a curl command.
| justaj wrote:
| > Last updated October 5, 2006
| markwong wrote:
| The tldp was especially useful for me when i was in university.
| grafelic wrote:
| https://github.com/lahwaacz/arch-wiki-docs as an alternative to
| tldp for offline viewing. IMO the Arch wiki is the best Linux
| configuration resource available.
| iib wrote:
| The arch wiki is also available offline as ZIM files, a type of
| compressed file suited for text and indexing, used by Wikimedia
| for its projects, and viewable through software like kiwix. It
| also works as a general way of encoding html documents in a
| single, compressed file, which I really like, but I could not
| get their tools to work properly to convert some
| unconventionally structured websites.
| walton_simons wrote:
| This brings back some great memories. I learned so much from the
| HOWTOs, and I think they played a big part in getting me my first
| proper tech job. I just had to sit and figure it out, and the
| process of persevering through the mistakes and dead ends
| ultimately gave me a level of confidence around computers and
| technology in general which has been incredibly useful in work
| and in life.
| riskneutral wrote:
| This brings back memories for me, but I don't know if they are
| "great." I have memories of being in high school and
| downloading Linux binaries and HOWTOs over a dial-up modem,
| messing around with Debian on the family computer. So much of
| my youth spent (wasted?) on this. I wish I had spent more time
| making friends and playing sports, or learning something more
| fundamental like math or programming. I don't even work in the
| tech industry.
| a-dub wrote:
| agree. tldp combined with the tinkering necessary to make a
| basic system function were a fantastic resource for learning
| back in the day.
| bakatubas wrote:
| I second that--memories installing gentoo on iBook G4 and
| getting the wireless to work felt like a nice accomplishment :)
|
| Granted, the gentoo docs are really good so that's where I went
| mostly.
| noufalibrahim wrote:
| If someone was running a non Ubuntu distro on a personal
| laptop, I used it as a proxy for some amount of technical
| ability and it was mostly justified.
| [deleted]
| qalmakka wrote:
| I distinctly remember borrowing a copy of "Linux From Dummies"
| from the public library and then using it to learn how to use the
| Linux shell, back in the '00s. It even came with a CD of some
| extremely old version of Red Hat.
| orev wrote:
| I think "Linux From Dummies" better describes the current trend
| of blogspam that are all just copy/pastes of each other.
|
| But back in the day, "Linux FOR Dummies" was quite popular.
| znpy wrote:
| I remember back in 2005-2005 when LinuxPro magazine gave a full
| dvd containing ALL of the tldp howtos and stuff, and that was
| kind of a sweet deal.
|
| I never bought a magazine so fast in my life.
| quink wrote:
| Don't know about the "stuff", but Linux distros frequently
| shipped with packages for the TLDP. Or rather whatever it was
| know as at the time, some derivative of Linux HOWTOs or
| linuxdoc.org.
| alexpetralia wrote:
| One of my favorite resources on Linux is this:
| http://www.linfo.org/newbies.html
|
| I have learned so much about low-level systems from these
| encyclopedic (yet extremely simply written) articles.
|
| Make sure to click into the links on things you don't know - it
| is a very fun rabbit hole!
| cbpowell wrote:
| In 1994/5-ish I had a compendium of HOWTOs published in book form
| called "DRx. Linux", put out by Linux System Labs. It was
| awesome, and THE way to get Linux configured. Good memories.
| savant_penguin wrote:
| I really hope they add a bunch of examples.
|
| The thing I miss the most about man pages is the total lack of
| runnable examples
|
| I get what I have to do 10 times faster from an example
| (preferably one in which I can just substitute the target files)
| than if I have to actually understand the manual lingo
| desktopninja wrote:
| Just feels right: echo cappuccino >/dev/coffee
|
| Ref: https://tldp.org/HOWTO/html_single/Coffee/#ss4.1
| bowlingx wrote:
| I remember printing out the gentoo documentation back in the days
| to do a stage-1 install with the only computer I had :D. This was
| so much fun
| gerikson wrote:
| Last updated in 2015: https://tldp.org/sorted_howtos.html
| rascul wrote:
| There have been some updates in the Github repo since then
| (https://github.com/tLDP/LDP/commits/master) but I don't notice
| any new content. It was a great resource for me decades ago,
| but now I understand TLDP to be mostly old and stale (and
| sometimes arguably bad, such as the Advanced Bash-Scripting
| Guide) and generally better sources can be easily found.
| wycy wrote:
| As someone who's not particularly great at bash, I don't know
| enough to know if a guide I'm looking at is teaching old/bad
| methods. Are there any notably good references for modern
| bash?
| rascul wrote:
| I generally stick with the bash reference manual and
| Wooledge's wiki. Not sure how good they are for people
| unfamiliar with the material already.
|
| https://www.gnu.org/software/bash/manual/html_node/index.ht
| m...
|
| https://mywiki.wooledge.org/BashGuide
| _ZeD_ wrote:
| What's bad about ABS? I remember I used that guide a lot back
| in the days
| rascul wrote:
| Looking through the examples, I see lots of pitfalls such
| as unquoted variables, backticks, no error checking, and
| parsing ls. Also bash features such as [[ are ignored, and
| expr is sometimes used for what bash handles natively. Also
| there's a lot of new stuff that this old guide doesn't
| cover.
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