[HN Gopher] History of Techno
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       History of Techno
        
       Author : unquote
       Score  : 446 points
       Date   : 2021-04-29 05:53 UTC (17 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.beatportal.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.beatportal.com)
        
       | tomcam wrote:
       | An accurate history. Got to see where this music evolved from in
       | real time. Worked in an all-black mailroom (except me) in the 70s
       | where there was one station and one station only: Los Angeles'
       | KISS 106. You heard Cerrone, Cameo, Toto, Grandmaster Flash,
       | Prince, Teena Marie, Kool and the Gang, Black Russian, EWF---the
       | least formatted format on the market. It was a Cambrian explosion
       | of dance music, much of which became the basis of techno styles.
       | 
       | Combine that with the fact that Southern California set so many
       | music trends, and literally nothing until about the Nirvana era
       | was even remotely new to me for decades (and of course Nirvana's
       | music style isn't particularly new to anyone who listened to the
       | White Album or Iggy Pop, not that it's not great music). It was
       | all recycled constantly in the dance music world and continues to
       | be to this day.
       | 
       | Techno and hiphop so obviously came out of these roots that I
       | laugh every time someone names a new variant of EDM, which is
       | about twice a week. Prince, Earth, Wind and Fire, and Kool in the
       | Gang didn't even call themselves R&B groups. They called
       | themselves rock bands, intentionally. Nothing new etc.
        
         | wolverine876 wrote:
         | > Los Angeles' KISS 106. You heard Cerrone, Cameo, Toto,
         | Grandmaster Flash, Prince, Teena Marie, Kool and the Gang,
         | Black Russian, EWF---the least formatted format on the market.
         | It was a Cambrian explosion of dance music, much of which
         | became the basis of techno styles.
         | 
         | That sounds a lot like the Electrifying Mojo, mentioned in the
         | article. Mojo played rock and other stuff too.
        
       | bisRepetita wrote:
       | Berlin in the 90s. That's what made it for me. Love Parade.
       | E-Werk. Tresor. East-Berlin hidden bars. Tiergarten outdoor
       | parties.
       | 
       | I went from "techno is boom boom music" to "mind-blown" in one
       | week. Forever.
       | 
       | Thank you Detroit, thank you New York City, and huge thank you
       | Berlin.
        
       | gdsdfe wrote:
       | People look at me weird when I say that I like techno, glad I'm
       | not the only weirdo around :)
        
       | mellavora wrote:
       | Wonder how this stacks up to Toops's Oceans of Sound?
       | 
       | this is the book cover:
       | https://monoskop.org/images/9/9f/Toop_David_Ocean_of_Sound_A...
        
         | adriancooney wrote:
         | This looks great, thanks for posting. Have you another other
         | books like this you'd recommend?
        
           | layoutIfNeeded wrote:
           | https://jointhefuture.net/book/
           | 
           | Join The Future: Bleep Techno and the Birth of British Bass
           | Music
        
       | Severian wrote:
       | Simon Reynolds's book _Energy Flash_ is a pretty good read on the
       | history of early techno  / rave culture up to about the 90s (if I
       | remember corectly, it's been awhile). A lot of history regarding
       | Detroit techno and the roots of the genre.
       | 
       | https://www.amazon.com/Energy-Flash-Journey-Through-Culture/...
        
       | da39a3ee wrote:
       | I thought I might see Luke Slater's name but no. If you don't
       | know it try his 1997 album Freek Funk. It's a very beautiful
       | album of techno.
        
       | olivermarks wrote:
       | missed out here are Morgan Khan's seminal 'streetsounds' techno
       | vinyl compilations which were very successful in the the UK. I
       | was hanging out with Herbie Laidly and the Mastermind Roadshow in
       | the mid eighties, they mixed a lot of that vinyl which brought
       | Techno/electro to a much broader audience.
       | 
       | https://www.discogs.com/label/906-Street-Sounds
       | 
       | https://youtu.be/QWuAdxoiVPA
        
       | randomopining wrote:
       | Proper techno is like tribal music on steroids imo. Same time of
       | communal trance vibes.
        
       | RamblingCTO wrote:
       | Reminds me of the track that is considered the first hardcore
       | techno track, originating from Frankfurt as well:
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACxT5_SLjfM (Mescalinum United -
       | We Have Arrived)
       | 
       | Funny that the Techno scene in Frankfurt is pretty much gone.
        
       | cpach wrote:
       | These threads are pure gold, thank you folks <3
        
       | LargoLasskhyfv wrote:
       | Tze hizztorry of Tekkno iz incomplete wiffout manntionink tze
       | meme of tze https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Techno_Viking
       | 
       |  _Uffz, Uffz, Uffz!_
        
       | Dowwie wrote:
       | 1978 Kraftwerk live performance of 2 songs:
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdubMwbOndo
       | 
       | Kraftwerk's first live recorded performance was in 1970:
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWUiLJnEYJI
       | 
       | How many people in the 1970 audience sensed that they were
       | listening to something as significant as what it became?
        
         | anthk wrote:
         | Well, a few years later Jarre released Oxygene, so is not
         | completely alien for that audience.
        
       | tmearnest wrote:
       | I've been listening to techno (not EDM in general, Techno) since
       | the 90s. It's definitely my favorite music for deep work;
       | something about the tight repetitive loops is just perfect for
       | concentration. Since the pandemic started I've been listening to
       | techno mixes almost constantly in order to mask the noise from
       | everyone else in my house. Initially, I found it difficult to
       | find decent mixes since Techno has become a generic term for EDM.
       | I just returned to following the genre so I really didn't know
       | where to look. However once I found a single Soundcloud account
       | curating mixes of the style I like, it opened up an unlimited
       | supply of music through following recommendations. Maybe someone
       | will find this useful:
       | 
       | https://soundcloud.com/invite-1
        
         | spiralx wrote:
         | I've got about 40 or so playlists on SoundCloud for individual
         | techno DJs I like, as well as a couple for general techno mixes
         | - they're all the ones with "techno" in the title :) You'll
         | find a some overlap with the artists in your playlist in fact,
         | I've got playlists for Ben Sims, The Advent and Drumcell that I
         | found in the first minute of scrolling through it.
         | 
         | What sort of techno do you prefer? The artists I've got are
         | mostly the tougher end of European techno, there's also some
         | Detroit techno, acid techno and hard techno/schranz. You can
         | look at my likes for my favourites...
         | 
         | https://soundcloud.com/spiralx/sets
         | 
         | I've also been into techno since the 90s and it's still my
         | favourite thing in the world :) The combination of relentless
         | kick drum and the constantly changing synths and percussion
         | never fails to draw me in. It manages to sooth my ADHD with the
         | constant heartbeat of the kick drum while the constant
         | progression of everything else serves to keep my attention from
         | wondering off after a few bars.
        
         | emptyfile wrote:
         | Here's a great channel I found in 2020 for techno mixes. Seems
         | like its mostly folks from Berlin but there are a few big names
         | also.
         | 
         | https://www.youtube.com/c/H%C3%96RBERLIN/videos
         | 
         | EDIT: There's craploads of content, a lot of styles, although I
         | will observe that oldschool sounds have continued to come back
         | in a big way in 2020. Rave, electro, acid.
         | 
         | Here's my favourite party set from 2020.
         | 
         | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0qeZ1fpWwU
        
           | subpixel wrote:
           | I lived in Germany in the 90s and early 2000s, loathed
           | techno, and I must admit that bouncing around a dozen or so
           | of these videos gave me a flashback of nostalgia for lost
           | youth mixed with the same desire to escape the music.
           | 
           | No offense intended - divergent musical taste should be
           | celebrated!
        
           | brianzelip wrote:
           | My favorite HOR BERLIN:
           | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4MBQFq06w5Y
        
             | gregsadetsky wrote:
             | So happy to see HOR references on HN! Thanks for your
             | recommendation!
             | 
             | Videos I've come back to way more than once below (most of
             | these are on the harder side of "electro" -- hard techno,
             | hard acid -- but not all)
             | 
             | Lady Starlight (live modular!)
             | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kb9oVM7CQbI
             | 
             | Tigerhead https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vpuHmH495us
             | 
             | Tham https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdOfhuYW_OI
             | 
             | The Brvtalist https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0qeZ1fpWwU
             | 
             | FJAAK https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LwpF8CAcGQ8
             | 
             | SPFDJ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJ7lbqyLbX8
        
               | comprev wrote:
               | Tham is awesome! Really working all 4 decks during his
               | mixes, with multiple tracks looping in layers.
               | 
               | Dax J and Hector Oaks also need a mention - Hector adding
               | a sparkle of punk to electronic mixes.
        
           | nocobot wrote:
           | I did not expect to find a link to hor on hn news today.
           | Interesting overlap
        
         | hahamrfunnyguy wrote:
         | You may also like SlamRadio https://soundcloud.com/paragraph
        
         | ceh123 wrote:
         | Not sure if you have spotify, but here's my "techno" playlist
         | that has over 800 songs in it so far. I put techno in quotes
         | because I'm sure someone can find songs in there that aren't
         | "real techno" but you won't find any big room EDM, that's for
         | sure.
         | 
         | https://open.spotify.com/playlist/1LSjVUxQk1Nrh7kHavZ4uu?si=...
        
         | bityard wrote:
         | Nice, I will be checking that out.
         | 
         | I maintain a YouTube playlist called "music to hack by" which
         | is up to over 500 songs now. Basically the criteria are: 1)
         | electronic 2) has a beat (no ambient) 3) few to no vocals, with
         | only one or two exceptions
         | 
         | https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL2A7B99AB93F1E522
        
         | dylan604 wrote:
         | DI.fm is 100% dance music with so many channels dedicated to
         | the nichest of niche genres. They have channels dedicated to
         | mixes as well.
        
         | laumars wrote:
         | Slam, Adam Beyer (Drumcode) and Chris Liebling (CLR) are all
         | good places to start. They all have weekly radio stations.
         | 
         | From there on you can follow an guest DJs who you like the
         | style off.
         | 
         | Also when did "techno" become an umbrella term again? I was
         | possessed off enough when "EDM" was redefined as a specific
         | genre (and such a lousy one at that).
        
           | nicholassmith wrote:
           | If you like Slam then Reclaim Your City
           | (https://soundcloud.com/reclaim-your-city) is a good one to
           | go with it.
        
             | Applejinx wrote:
             | Reclaim Your City is fantastic! I've been listening to it
             | for years. Endless totally techno sets from a wide range of
             | DJs and a wider range of tracks, and they're all really
             | expertly put together. Seamless is the rule, not the
             | exception. It generally feels like it's one mad synthesizer
             | boffin performing on a giant machine, rather than picking
             | individual tracks to play in sequence. Rarely can you tell
             | when they switch from one track to another.
        
           | CuriouslyC wrote:
           | Swedish techno... That brings me back. If you like Adam
           | Beyer, check out Cari Lekebusch and Jasper Dahlback too.
           | 
           | His style is a bit less minimal, but Boris Brejcha is
           | absolutely sick.
        
             | laumars wrote:
             | Already got a stack of records from Cari and Jasper.
             | Particularly love Cari's Agent Orange stuff.
             | 
             | I've not knowingly come across Boris before though. Pretty
             | sure I'd have heard some of his records play but looking at
             | his discography I think he might have started making a name
             | for himself around the same time I hung up my own DJ
             | headphones so he's not a name that's immediately
             | recognisable for me.
             | 
             | I did recently hook my decks up again but not yet had a
             | chance to play anything.
        
             | josht wrote:
             | +1 for Boris Brejcha
        
           | rchaud wrote:
           | > Also when did "techno" become an umbrella term again?
           | 
           | I would guess in the '90s, when there was a lot more
           | crossover between electronic music and other genres. Rock and
           | hiphop oriented stuff like the Prodigy and Chemical Brothers
           | were topping the dance charts, and other more conventional
           | techno like Aphex Twin and Underworld were getting decent
           | media coverage as well.
           | 
           | Plus movie soundtracks at the time tended to include a lot of
           | techno. Trainspotting, Pi, Hackers, The Jackal, The
           | Saint....discovered a lot of artists thanks to these.
        
             | laumars wrote:
             | Yeah, I was around then; buying those records, going to
             | those clubs and in many cases partying with those DJs. But
             | that was the end of "Techno" as a synonym for "electronic
             | music. By then there was already numerous sub genres and
             | many of them because music styles in their own right (like
             | rock, metal, blues are all guitar music) with people
             | identifying themselves as trance, house, hardcore et al
             | clubbers rather than techno.
             | 
             | My comment was in regard to how the GP suggested that
             | techno has since become another umbrella term again now. Or
             | maybe I misunderstood their post?
        
           | oogetyboogety wrote:
           | +1 adam beyer
        
         | pas wrote:
         | https://www.uzic.ch/ - online radio
         | 
         | https://soundcloud.com/hate_music/sets/hate-podcasts
         | 
         | https://soundcloud.com/resident-advisor/sets/ra-podcasts
         | 
         | https://soundcloud.com/resident-advisor/sets/ra-podcast-arch...
        
         | FuckButtons wrote:
         | Just to pitch in a suggestion for anyone looking: NTS radio and
         | boiler room both have a huge number of mixes by techno artists
         | - generally speaking I find artists by listening to mixes on
         | NTS and checking the track list and then find mixes by them on
         | boiler room.
        
           | datameta wrote:
           | Very much seconding Boiler Room. Been a huge fan of all
           | genres electronic but those sets have made me "understand"
           | Techno, specifically.
        
         | randomopining wrote:
         | I think the repetitive loops of percussion and basslines let
         | you keep a certain part of your mind "busy" so you can focus on
         | other things. Like it occupies some sort of nervous energy and
         | let's other areas of the mind run more free.
        
         | ylhert wrote:
         | I agree completely - techno is hypnotic and almost by design is
         | meant to be heard and not listened to, and I find this really
         | helps me maintain focus/flow while working. No vocals, ear
         | catching melodies, or overdone chord progressions that try to
         | grab your attention. Techno is my go to work music for this
         | reason!
        
         | aasasd wrote:
         | 'Techno Live Sets' are good at long mixes in the genre, though
         | they do delve into house regularly: https://www.techno-
         | livesets.com
         | 
         | (IIRC they were on Mixcloud previously, but parted ways for
         | some reason.)
        
           | mason55 wrote:
           | Wow, I didn't realize they have a website. They're also on
           | the iOS Podcasts app which is how I have always consumed the
           | feed.
        
         | you_know_the_ wrote:
         | Cercle channel on YouTube puts out some great techno shows.
         | They go to historical places and record a set with some of the
         | best djs Here is the link for Pan-Pot set
         | https://youtu.be/hENgrbIMiy4
        
           | layoutIfNeeded wrote:
           | lol, the linked video is not techno but some pretty bland
           | tech-house...
        
           | Jommi wrote:
           | That's not techno, it's Techno
        
         | Jommi wrote:
         | It's fascinating how the "techno" moniker nowadays really just
         | means any non festival non house dance music.
        
           | jldl805 wrote:
           | Not among people who care it doesn't.
        
           | comprev wrote:
           | By that logic anything with a guitar is rock music.
           | 
           | Techno has a vast range of styles.
        
       | olivermarks wrote:
       | Also a good historical primer
       | 
       | Pump Up The Volume - A History of House Music - Documentary -
       | 2001 - Channel 4 (UK)
       | 
       | https://youtu.be/pRRg8M4fvUo
        
       | 8bitsrule wrote:
       | Juan Atkins (Cybotron) interview (Bleep43, 2009). Long, deep.
       | 
       | http://www.bleep43.com/bleep43/2009/10/4/juan-atkins-intervi...
       | 
       | 'Alleys of Your Mind'
       | 
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kMHNhJJnve4
        
         | Jiocus wrote:
         | Juan Atkins as "Model 500"
         | 
         | "The Flow", here as an original MTV music video,
         | 
         | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZJt0XlhEoQ
        
       | the-dude wrote:
       | Classic history tree of electronic music :
       | http://music.ishkur.com/
       | 
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26212706
        
         | globular-toast wrote:
         | The original Ishkur's Guide is one of those Flash projects now
         | lost to time. This new one is OK, but doesn't come close to the
         | original for me. I always loved electronic music, even as a
         | kid. In the UK we regularly had tracks (trance especially)
         | crossover into the charts. But before Ishkur's Guide I didn't
         | really know what I was listening to. It opened up the door to a
         | whole world of music for me.
        
         | twelvechairs wrote:
         | Neither this or OPs seem to give any acknowledgement to
         | Japanese pinoeers (particularly YMO and its members)
        
           | ratww wrote:
           | No, there's a long paragraph about YMO in "Electro" and some
           | of their songs are played in "Synthpop".
        
         | andruby wrote:
         | Do you happen to know if the old version of "Ishkur's guide to
         | electronic music" is still available somewhere? IIRC it was a
         | flash site with mostly music bubbles. It opened me up to fringe
         | music genre's like Italo, Acid Jazz and Ghetto Tech.
        
           | omnibrain wrote:
           | It's part of BlueMaxima's Flashpoint:
           | https://bluemaxima.org/flashpoint/
        
             | andruby wrote:
             | Thank you. Installed it and enjoyed listening to the
             | carefully cut loops :)
        
           | tern wrote:
           | I believe it's here, but of course you need Flash
           | http://techno.org/electronic-music-guide/
           | 
           | Another favorite is Ishkur's "trancecracker" comic, which you
           | can find here:
           | https://modwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=245900
        
             | cpach wrote:
             | I haven't used a Flash site for ages but I guess it would
             | not be impossible to run it in a VM somehow.
        
             | radley wrote:
             | Heh... KLF worship
        
             | monocasa wrote:
             | That comic is the funniest fucking thing I've seen in a
             | long time.
             | 
             | I was literally just making the argument with my friends
             | who were going "oh, I wish Tiesto was still playing trance;
             | he turned his back on the trance scene" to which I
             | responded "Tiesto was never a trance DJ, he was a mainstage
             | DJ. He's still a mainstage DJ, and you don't get on the
             | mainstage playing trance anymore".
        
               | cpach wrote:
               | Love that comic, first saw it like 15 years ago or so
               | (^_^)
        
               | HKH2 wrote:
               | You don't get on the main stage without words/lyrics.
               | 
               | Also, any musician that wants to get big should know that
               | the fastest way is to add words/lyrics.
               | 
               | Music is such a universal language that it needs to be
               | annotated or something.
        
               | circlefavshape wrote:
               | > Also, any musician that wants to get big should know
               | that the fastest way is to add words/lyrics
               | 
               | Ahem. I think you'll find it's a little bit more
               | complicated than that
        
               | MagnumOpus wrote:
               | It's not though.
               | 
               | In the last 50 years, you can probably count the number
               | of chart-toppers without lyrics on one hand. Animals,
               | Axel F, Doop, Flat Beat, and Sandstorm (and I am not sure
               | if these even topped charts everywhere).
               | 
               | Sure, if you are into the niche of EDM or techno club
               | music, the situation is different, but none of those
               | tunes sell millions of copies.
        
               | circlefavshape wrote:
               | It is though. The number of _non_ -chart-toppers _with_
               | lyrics is beyond counting. You don 't make yourself a
               | chart-topper simply by writing music with lyrics
        
               | HKH2 wrote:
               | Okay, it's almost always necessary but not sufficient.
        
               | HKH2 wrote:
               | I probably could've worded it a bit better.
               | 
               | The point is you could spend hours actually developing
               | subtleties in engineering, especially in timing and
               | mixing, to produce something profound.
               | 
               | Or you could get a drum machine and a 303, and get
               | someone sexy to sing/rap/speak over the top, make a
               | video, and save a lot of time. A lot of pop music these
               | days is quite simple, except for the singing, which I can
               | admit is talented, but it's more about
               | personality/fashion than music.
        
               | monocasa wrote:
               | Mainstage is a specific genre of EDM, ironically known
               | for being particularly transparent and banal these days.
               | Some of the most likely to have lyrics that are basically
               | just another beat track, IMO, if they have them at all.
               | 
               | Trance ironically enough (including a lot of the stuff
               | Tiesto worked on) is known for having very deep lyrics
               | and that's a good chunk of what people are missing I
               | think when they make the comments like above.
               | 
               | I'd check out Beautiful Things by Andain if you're
               | curious. The lyrics are about a woman who believes she
               | gave up her life and potential to be a traditional wife
               | and is contemplating suicide to end her regret.
        
               | radley wrote:
               | Actually, he definitely was a trance DJ. I remember when
               | his first single was released. He understood how to make
               | simple melodies with hooks which a lot of us respected.
               | Over time, he learned how to make "epic" trance hooks
               | that help pioneered the rise of the EDM genre.
               | 
               | Mainstage antics are part of performance. Check out every
               | mainstream genre before EDM. Van Halen Jump is probably
               | my fav example :)
        
               | monocasa wrote:
               | My point was that he played trance because that got you
               | on the mainstage (particularly in 2000 era Netherlands),
               | and as soon as other genres were played on the mainstage
               | he switched.
               | 
               | There's plenty of even trance without mainstage antics.
               | 
               | I'm mainly being pithy more than anything else, lol.
        
             | spiralx wrote:
             | Oh thanks, I remember laughing at that comic 15 years ago
             | or so, back when I had "trance sucks" as an avatar on at
             | least one dance music-related forum :)
             | 
             | The fact that it's originally a Jack Chick tract about how
             | evil Muslims are makes it even better lol.
        
         | ahurmazda wrote:
         | Its easy to miss but descriptions of the different genres are
         | the true mvp. Some of the saltiest things I have read, true
         | hilarity.
         | 
         | E.g `Eurotrance`:
         | 
         | > "The rank repugnance of the self-fellating culture of DJ
         | worship is at the forefront of this many-headed hydra of
         | rapacious rot. Overbearing anthems, boring breakdowns, and
         | tasteless DJ vanity have combined into one monstrous,
         | obnoxious, pompous, unlistenable Babylonian nega-demon. Who is
         | to blame for unleashing such a hideous beast of seething filth
         | upon our ears?"
        
           | jasondoty wrote:
           | The descriptions are salty at every genre that is even
           | somewhat popular. God forbid people actually enjoying the
           | music without being under influence of several drugs
        
             | skrebbel wrote:
             | You're mixing up "you shouldn't like this" with "I don't
             | like this".
             | 
             | The site is basically one very elaborate opinion piece.
             | Ishkur doesn't like Eurotrance. Deal with it.
        
           | tarsinge wrote:
           | These kind of rants have gone really old for me, like the
           | person is stuck in 2009 at the golden age of
           | Pitchfork/Vice/Hipster blogs... music elitism/criticism.
        
             | rchaud wrote:
             | I wish some of those humorous rants still existed. Music
             | criticism now is so staid and boring. There are more
             | paragraphs dedicated to the author's navel-gazing about
             | their personal circumstances, than what the damn record
             | sounds like.
             | 
             | I even wish the elitism still existed. I used to go to
             | Pitchfork, Coke Machine Glow and sites of that type to read
             | about music that wasn't getting covered elsewhere. Now it's
             | basically Rolling Stone, but worse because it pretends to
             | be counter culture while devoting endless posts to TSwift
             | or Drake or any number of artists that can be heard on
             | every major radio station.
        
               | yowlingcat wrote:
               | Don't get out your eulogies too prematurely -- let's not
               | forget Anthony Fantano's meteoric rise in large part due
               | to his Gordon Ramsay style critic rants! With that said,
               | I do agree with your directional assessment, but I wonder
               | if it's more due to economic and discovery forces (lower
               | cost to production, discovery AND publication than ever
               | before).
               | 
               | That is to say -- I've found that while the sheer volume
               | of mass-produced crap has gone up (including but not
               | limited to music criticism), so too has the sheer volume
               | of rare, underground jewels. I don't know if/maybe doubt
               | discovery has been cracked yet.
        
               | tarsinge wrote:
               | > so too has the sheer volume of rare, underground jewels
               | 
               | This. As for discovery, it's never been easier to find
               | things by oneself. Bandcamp (nice place to bootstrap
               | rabbit holes), Spotify artists playlists, Youtube
               | channels, Subreddits...
        
               | rchaud wrote:
               | The Fantano phenomenon puzzles me. I have tried to watch
               | his videos, but they're so boring. He looks into the
               | camera for 10+ minutes just talking.
               | 
               | There are never any cut-aways, or song clips, or on-
               | screen graphics...anything to reduce the monotony. And
               | yet he has a million subs and the comments section does
               | include discussion of the record. It's not very deep, but
               | it does exist.
               | 
               | For me though, it's too boring. I'd read the review if he
               | wrote articles, but definitely would not watch.
        
             | p1necone wrote:
             | You know what annoys me 1000x more than elitism? People who
             | are elitist about not being elitist.
             | 
             | This is just some guys opinions on music, let him talk
             | about them, you don't have to agree.
        
               | tarsinge wrote:
               | There is nothing elitist, that's the point, I'm past
               | defining myself and judging people through music taste.
        
             | the-dude wrote:
             | Except Ishkur is running his electronic music site since
             | 2000. Which is basically since the beginning of time in
             | internet terms.
        
               | anthk wrote:
               | That's nothing.
               | 
               | Spain, 1999: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dH9W5LRcVzk
               | 
               | This was everywhere. Everywhere.
               | 
               | People did their own remixes with computers at home.
               | Everyone and their cat tried to do their first
               | techno/trance song in High School.
               | 
               | When "modern EDM" hit the US we have been listening to
               | Techno/Trance since where, from 1992-1993? There were
               | even official Techno/Trance remixes bought by everyone,
               | too.
        
               | jasonwatkinspdx wrote:
               | I really wish you'd stop with this smug condescension.
               | You are utterly ignorant of the US music scene during
               | this period, and in general, based on your comments.
               | 
               | You seem to be basing your views on top 40 charts and
               | what was protrayed in media. It's true, techno and
               | electronica only rarely appeared there in the 90s. That's
               | because electronica in the US was entirely centered
               | around clubs and raves. Radio was controlled by a handful
               | of big labels that all had a specific intent to shape the
               | market towards specific genres. So techno in the US never
               | became a "factory" product.
               | 
               | But that doesn't mean we weren't listening to it. I grew
               | up in Kansas in a smaller city. In high school we were
               | going to jungle or trance parties just as often as
               | grunge. All the big box book and music stores had
               | substantial electronica sections. We discovered music at
               | parties, via word of mouth, and by the latter half of the
               | 90s, via the internet.
               | 
               | People have been listening to techno in the US
               | continuously since its inception in Detroit. But we've
               | been listening to a whole lot of other electronica
               | subgrenes as well.
               | 
               | The kind of music in your link has never been popular
               | with electronica fans here. We find it manufactured banal
               | empty trash to be blunt. The closest to that style that's
               | been popular here would be Oakenfold and the like.
               | 
               | You also misunderstand hip hop in one of your comments.
               | It is not just popular with black Americans. It's been
               | popular with Americans of all sorts since its inception.
               | In fact hip hop essentially subsumed pop in the late 90s.
               | 
               | There's been a lot of exchange between hip hop and
               | electronica in the US too, particularly due to both using
               | the 808 a lot. The latest electronica fad, the revival of
               | phonk, is another example. It's a fusion of trap with
               | breakbeat techno. And it's yet another example of how
               | electronica is fundamentally international, as the
               | revival has been driven by russian producers like this:
               | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=smbiKaOAN3Q
               | 
               | I don't really know what you're trying to accomplish with
               | your smugness, but to be blunt all it's doing is making
               | you look both ignorant and prejudiced.
        
               | anthk wrote:
               | >You seem to be basing your views on top 40 charts and
               | what was protrayed in media. It's true, techno and
               | electronica only rarely appeared there in the 90s. That's
               | because electronica in the US was entirely centered
               | around clubs and raves. Radio was controlled by a handful
               | of big labels that all had a specific intent to shape the
               | market towards specific genres. So techno in the US never
               | became a "factory" product.
               | 
               | So was Spain. People shared music with each other. Radio?
               | pop and rhythm & blues everywhere in top charts. While
               | people IRL got into the clubs everywhere.
               | 
               | >The kind of music in your link has never been popular
               | with electronica fans here. We find it manufactured banal
               | empty trash to be blunt.
               | 
               | Here we had several substyles. As I stated, Andalusians
               | were more fans of breakbeat, while the North liked
               | progressive/proto-hardbass in 1999-2001 and the East with
               | Valencia and its "route" among Barcelona was the Techno-
               | Trance heaven. Ibiza longly was, was, it is, and it will
               | be, THE "chill-out/house" genre place from Spain. For
               | obvious reasons: partying tourism and a "hippie" vibe
               | since the 60's.
        
             | coldtea wrote:
             | Because sarcasm and personal taste have gone out of style?
             | 
             | Not to mention those things were a thing at the time of
             | Lester Bangs or the NME, 50+ years ago (and even in
             | reviewers of classical music) hardly a Pitchfork era
             | phenomenon or invention....
        
               | tarsinge wrote:
               | I think that music defining one's identity and their
               | lifestyle has kind of gone out of style. I just remember
               | the late 00's/early 10's as crazy on judging people on
               | what they listen (or they clothes, like Vice Do and
               | Don't), not saying it didn't exist before. But maybe I'm
               | a bit sensitive because I did go through that phase and
               | it's still fresh...
               | 
               | Also to add to this the more I lean to the content
               | creation side and work with artists, the more genres
               | become blurry and irrelevant. Seeing critics and the
               | creator of that history tree obsess over this and create
               | micro genres to try to fit every music and their listener
               | into this is just silly and far removed from how a good
               | composer or producer with eclectic tastes works. Nowadays
               | a mainstream song can be surprisingly creative, while the
               | N-th production in a "good taste approved sub-sub-genre
               | of techno" will have 0 artistic value.
        
               | taneq wrote:
               | I find sarcasm and personal taste are at least somewhat
               | negatively correlated... but then again I guess that's
               | just my personal taste.
        
               | coldtea wrote:
               | Is that sarcasm?
        
               | taneq wrote:
               | ...maybe? ;)
        
           | matt_j wrote:
           | Salty, but not wrong!
        
           | shermozle wrote:
           | He's, uh, not a fan of the Dutch.
        
             | skrebbel wrote:
             | It's absolutely delightful. You just know that when someone
             | knowledgeable disses you with so much care and attention,
             | there's some deep-seated love behind all that hatred.
             | 
             | We love you too Ishkur! <3 from Holland
        
           | renaudg wrote:
           | You forgot to quote the "best" bit a few paragraphs later :
           | 
           |  _> It's important to first explain the horrible template
           | that ruined Trance music. Somehow a musical artform that
           | devoted itself to hypnotic rhythms and spacey soundscapes
           | became, inside of a decade, a mass produced assembly line
           | McProduct for middle class Europeans (pejoratively known as
           | Trancecrackers because they're white. Terribly, tragically,
           | sunblindingly, basic-bitch-ordering-a-pumpkin-spice-latte
           | white) who should have not spent their young adulthood
           | clubbing but rather dying horribly in another continent-
           | engulfing conflict (I mean, come on: Europe is due)._
           | 
           | You know, one could answer this with an equally salty
           | comeback, like how ironic it is for an American to think he's
           | in a position to lecture white Europeans in any way about
           | electronic music culture or taste : we built, grew and lived
           | this music revolution for 20 years, while white America was
           | still all about stale rehashes of guitar-based genres*, and
           | black America all about hip-hop. To some extent, they still
           | are.
           | 
           | Then around 2009**, when we had matured this into something
           | commercial enough to be sold to the US public, we exported
           | the cheesiest, bro-ready fringe of it as "EDM" and sure
           | enough, it caught on like wildfire. Frat boys & sorority
           | girls had "never heard anything like this OMG!" :)
           | 
           | But with remarks like the one he makes about war, it's
           | probably sufficient to say that this guy, knowledgeable as he
           | is, sounds like a bit of a bigot and a right d*ck.
           | 
           | *This was the era when Eminem had lines like "nobody listens
           | to techno" (and by "techno" he meant Moby, lol), while in
           | Europe the Berlin Love Parade had a million people in the
           | streets each summer. I was dumbfounded in the late 90s at how
           | many different names the id3 tag format had for country music
           | and Christian genres. It was a complete WTF from a European
           | perspective !
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ID3#Genre_list_in_ID3v1[12]
           | 
           | ** David Guetta-produced "I gotta feeling" for the Black Eyed
           | Peas is widely credited to have launched EDM into the US
           | mainstream. Soon after he & Tiesto had their Vegas
           | residencies, EDC & UMF blew up and the rest is history.
        
             | CPLX wrote:
             | > This was the era when in the US Eminem had lines like
             | "nobody listens to techno", while in Europe
             | 
             | Perhaps it will add a little context to note that Eminem,
             | like Techno, is from Detroit.
        
               | anthk wrote:
               | Yeah, but everyone was listening to Eurotrance and pre-
               | hardbass here in 2000.
               | 
               | Spain, 1999:
               | 
               | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dH9W5LRcVzk
               | 
               | Meanwhile, the US got the shittiest EDM ever in 2010-2011
               | as something "revolutionary".
               | 
               | You kickstarted the acid house genre, but you let it rot
               | in the dust in the 90's.
               | 
               | We Europeans had a huge underground fanbase since late
               | 80's, and since mid-90's trance has been huge for example
               | in Spain and Germany, up to the point to be broadcasted
               | in the state-backed first TV channel in the mornings.
        
               | cmrdporcupine wrote:
               | North American techno fan for almost 30 years here.
               | 
               | Europe had an _audience_ for techno, yes but also an
               | audience for some of the cheesiest garbage dance music on
               | the planet.
               | 
               | Don't lecture us -- Detroit and Chicago are the heart and
               | soul of techno & house, even if the artists from there
               | weren't always appreciated at home.
               | 
               | Europe has been exporting its garbage trance and
               | progressive crap since the late 80s. Soul driven techno
               | from African-American artists had a way of being exported
               | over to Europe, absorbed by the locals, and shipped back
               | as soulless amphetamine driven crap.
               | 
               | Electronic music in Europe has always been a huge
               | industry, and some amazing music made... but as a % of
               | product produced/consumed.. only a small amount of it was
               | good (which amounted to a lot of excellent records in an
               | absolute ocean of other junk.)
               | 
               | Back in the day there was an amazing amount of quality
               | underground music coming out of Chicago, New York,
               | Detroit / Windsor, and smaller centres in the midwest,
               | too. Great stuff even from here in Toronto. The west
               | coast was an entirely other story, mostly dominated by
               | "funky breaks" and trance and stuff I didn't like.
               | 
               | Also I can't tell from your tone if the YouTube video you
               | posted is made to be made fun of, or enjoyed? Because to
               | me it's clearly the former. The kind of shit that teenage
               | kids at raves back in the 90s would take meth to and
               | grind their teeth and we'd just gag at.
               | 
               | Yes, we had all that crap here back in the mid-90s. Huge
               | raves, mostly crap. EDM is just what the next generation
               | called it, and I guess maybe it had a broader audience.
        
               | renaudg wrote:
               | >Europe had an _audience_ for techno, yes but also an
               | audience for some of the cheesiest garbage dance music on
               | the planet.
               | 
               | That's actually a sign that a genre has taken hold and
               | reached maturity in a location, with subgenres catering
               | for every layer of society.
               | 
               | As a genre ambassador, you know you've won when your
               | sound (even a watered down version of it) has become the
               | sound of pop music chart-toppers. That happened in Europe
               | in the early 90s, in America in the early 2010s.
               | 
               | > Don't lecture us, Detroit and Chicago are the heart and
               | soul of techno, even if the artists from there weren't
               | always appreciated at home.
               | 
               | I don't know, that's a bit like saying that Helsinki is
               | the heart and soul of Linux, and Uppsala that of MySQL,
               | which is technically true but ... this isn't really where
               | it came of age and blossomed.
               | 
               | > Europe has been exporting its garbage trance and
               | progressive crap since the 90s. Soul driven techno from
               | African-American artists had a way of being exported over
               | to Europe, absorbed by the locals, and exported back as
               | soulless amphetamine driven crap.
               | 
               | That's controversial. Techno is often described as the
               | child of African-American soul music on one side, and
               | white European experimental electronic music on the
               | other.
               | 
               | It's trendy to stress the former and downplay the latter,
               | and that's certainly fair enough for house music.
               | 
               | But when it comes to trance, eurodance, etc, I think that
               | owes almost nothing to America or African-American music,
               | and everything to Kraftwerk and Jean-Michel Jarre.
        
               | cmrdporcupine wrote:
               | > That happened in Europe in the early 90s, in America in
               | the early 2010s.
               | 
               | Not my recollection, though? "Electronica" was a
               | mainstream record store category and a huge market in the
               | late 90s and early 2000s in North America long before
               | this "EDM" label was applied later.
               | 
               | I think, yes, that it fell out of fashion post 9-11 and
               | so in the 10 year gap the EDM thing happened later. So
               | we're really talking about a generational horizon thing
               | here, where EDM was the re-emergence of the mainstream
               | top-40 "rave" thing 10 years later for the next
               | generation.
               | 
               | But I remember 3 waves of this stuff:
               | 
               | very early 90s, late 80s, crap like C&C music factory,
               | etc. was the mainstreamization of house music. "pump up
               | the volume" KLF "What Time is Love" etc. was chart
               | topping mainstreamization of acid house, hell it got
               | played all the time on the jukebox in my smalltown /
               | rural Canadian high school. I worked an indoor mall
               | amusement park and the early 90s equivalent of today's
               | EDM was on constant rotation. Dance megamixes, etc.
               | 
               | mid-late 90s, "Electronica"; Chemical Brothers, Prodigy,
               | Underworld, etc. were big. And then the tail end of that
               | it just was everywhere.
               | 
               | And then later, this EDM thing.
               | 
               | So 10 year waves, and at no point has it really been
               | foreign to North America. There were huge several
               | thousand person raves all through the late 90s. It's just
               | that in _context_ of hip-hop R&B dominance in North
               | America and its exports, maybe it looks to Europeans as
               | non-existent.
        
               | renaudg wrote:
               | I'm not questioning the experience of North American
               | music lovers and club-goers like yourself, I'm sure you
               | could get your hands on that stuff.
               | 
               | But take a look at the Wikipedia pages for the tracks and
               | artists you mentioned, and see how high they went in the
               | US vs European charts (to be fair, I was surprised that
               | the Prodigy did so well in the US)
               | 
               | My claim is that the degree to which a genre becomes
               | mainstream in a location is a good reflection of this
               | place being "ground zero" for it.
        
               | cmrdporcupine wrote:
               | Yeah I'm just saying it was far more mainstream than is
               | intimated. "Charts" have always been a marketing tool,
               | it's questionable to me from the 80s on how much they
               | reflect what people were actually listening to.
               | 
               | The point is that mass consumption of dance music was a
               | huge thing in North America.
               | 
               | I mean it's funny. In the early 90s I went to visit my
               | extended family in Germany. At that point I was already a
               | major techno fan, but the funny thing is that when I went
               | to Europe all my cousins, the music they listened to was
               | mostly American R&B and hip-hop. Watching overdubbed
               | episodes of Family Matters. Huge consumers of a side of
               | North American culture that I did not. So to me the
               | demographic situation is more complicated.
               | 
               | I think many Europeans on this thread might have a biased
               | perception of what music consumption in the 90s in North
               | America looked like based more on North American exports
               | than on what was actually happening here. That and most
               | people here are quite young.
        
               | anthk wrote:
               | >I think many Europeans on this thread might have a
               | biased perception of what music consumption in the 90s in
               | North America looked like based more on North American
               | exports than on what was actually happening here
               | 
               | Kinda like the American perception on European's techno
               | culture.
               | 
               | Hint: when the clubs released their yearly compilation
               | based on 3 or 4 CD's, you had one disc per genre: Techno,
               | trance, house and progressive/sung. So in the end we
               | listened to all of the EDM offer inbetween depending on
               | the mood.
               | 
               | Also, as I said, dance megamix CD's in Spain could be
               | found as early as late 80's. Ok, more like vinyls, but
               | the concept stays.
        
               | tailspin2019 wrote:
               | renaudg and cmrdporcupine
               | 
               | I don't have much to add to this apart from to say I
               | think you're both right to varying degrees.
               | 
               | But more importantly I'm enjoying this passionate
               | discourse on HN about a genre of music that I care deeply
               | about.
               | 
               | I think it's fair to say that dance music today wouldn't
               | exist without the breadth of innovation that happened on
               | both sides of "the pond" in recent decades - and to not
               | be too European/US centric - elsewhere around the world
               | too.
        
               | anthk wrote:
               | We got dance megamixes in Spain too, in early 90's.
        
             | _bohm wrote:
             | For someone who seems to have been around the scene for
             | quite a while, you come off as woefully uneducated on the
             | history of electronic music.
             | 
             | Electronic music is and has always been an international
             | phenomenon. Innovations happen due to cross-pollination of
             | styles, not because specifically white Europeans "mature"
             | it.
             | 
             | The Techno that blew up in Europe was initially imported
             | from African Americans. Jungle/DNB was born out of mixing
             | UK Hardcore with Jamaican Reggae/Dancehall/Dub music.
             | 
             | Footwork, Club, Bounce, Industrial, House, Electro, to name
             | a few, are all styles that were prevalent on dancefloors in
             | the US during the time you characterize it as "all about
             | stale rehashes of guitar-based genres". All of these styles
             | are woven into the DNA of the new underground generation.
             | Nobody "owns" electronic music, and the scene is so much
             | better when people stop claiming that anyone does.
        
               | renaudg wrote:
               | > For someone who seems to have been around the scene for
               | quite a while, you come off as woefully uneducated on the
               | history of electronic music.
               | 
               | I suppose that's one way of saying you have a different
               | perspective from mine.
               | 
               | >Electronic music is and has always been an international
               | phenomenon. Innovations happen due to cross-pollination
               | of styles, not because specifically white Europeans
               | "mature" it. >The Techno that blew up in Europe was
               | initially imported from African Americans. Jungle/DNB was
               | born out of mixing UK Hardcore with Jamaican
               | Reggae/Dancehall/Dub music.
               | 
               | I've addressed most of your points in another comment :
               | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26981256
               | 
               | A lot of the genres that Ishkur despises are every bit as
               | European homegrown as Motown is African-American to the
               | bones.
               | 
               | > Nobody "owns" electronic music, and the scene is so
               | much better when people stop claiming that anyone does.
               | 
               | Sure, but that's a bit like saying Silicon Valley doesn't
               | own the Internet. It's technically true but SV is still
               | (or was until very recently) a mecca, ground zero for all
               | things Internet.
               | 
               | There is such a thing for music genres as well, and a
               | good indicator of that is the extent to which that genre
               | has bubbled up into mainstream pop music charts.
        
               | _bohm wrote:
               | I'm happy to acknowledge that there are many subgenres of
               | electronic music, including some of my favorites, which
               | truly were grown and blossomed in Europe.
               | 
               | I took issue with your original comment because of the
               | claim that electronic music is basically an ethnically
               | white, European phenomenon. The SV->Europe comparison
               | would be apt here if Europe were indeed _the_ mecca for
               | all electronic music. This is obviously false unless you
               | ignore huge swaths of the history or massively constrain
               | your definition of what constitutes electronic music.
               | 
               | If you use the charts to measure what's happening at the
               | underground/local level of any place, you're never going
               | to get a good picture. Based on the charts
               | (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_European_number-
               | one_ai...) it would appear that Europeans seldom listened
               | to music written by Europeans in the 90s!
        
               | lodovic wrote:
               | Definitely. The influence of the reggae/dub music
               | experiments of the 70s on both rap and EDM is underrated.
        
             | throwit1q2e3r wrote:
             | > This was the era when in the US Eminem had lines like
             | "nobody listens to techno"
             | 
             | That was a diss line about Moby, a "techno" artist who
             | achieved mainstream US popularity around that time. Eminem
             | wasn't trying to accurately depict the state of electronic
             | music in the US, he was being salty.
        
               | renaudg wrote:
               | I know, but precisely : referring to Moby as "techno"
               | says everything on how clued up about electronic music
               | the average US listener or artist was at the time :)
        
               | cat199 wrote:
               | but if the line had no basis in reality, he would just
               | sound like an idiot, so ...
        
               | n4r9 wrote:
               | He also claimed Dr Dre was locked up in his basement in
               | another lyric, so I'm not sure truthfulness was top of
               | his priority list.
        
               | tomc1985 wrote:
               | Clearly being facetious there
               | 
               | By my own memory as a teenager growing up in the rave
               | scene, electronic music was weird and unapproachable to
               | pretty much everyone. Big Beat like The Crystal Method
               | and Prodigy had made some waves, and of course there was
               | Moby, but outside of my raver friends and a brief attempt
               | to get eurodance (like Alice Deejay) on Top 40 radio by
               | the local media conglomerates, "techno" was pretty niche.
               | 
               | I mean, in the early 2000s I saw Paul Oakenfold -- twice
               | -- at small clubs, and it was easy to get into the front.
               | I would write requests in big letters on my phone and see
               | if I could get the DJ to play them. (Tiesto wasn't as
               | approachable but that asshole would crank the speakers up
               | well past their distortion point)
        
           | DyslexicAtheist wrote:
           | most brilliant thing I've seen this week. I want to see
           | feedback like this as the top comments of every "Show HN" :D
        
         | yowlingcat wrote:
         | Immediately did a Ctrl-F to see if Ishkur's guide had been
         | mentioned on this thread and was not disappointed. As sassy as
         | it is, the deep relational depth and exhaustive Ishkur put into
         | making sense of the whole history of electronic music (and
         | really the /whole/ history -- right back to its origins in
         | musique concrete) made a really big impression on me as a
         | teenager. It's probably a large part of what made me get a
         | double major in music in college.
        
         | thu2111 wrote:
         | Is it me or is drum and bass entirely missing from that site?
         | Not sure you can have a real history tree of electronic music
         | that misses it out.
        
           | atlanta90210 wrote:
           | Long live Drum and Bass and jungle. Drum and Bass day was
           | this month.
           | 
           | It is tough being a fan in the US when the kings of DnB all
           | live in the UK. Can't wait for Fabric to reopen - its time
           | for a visit.
        
             | thinkmassive wrote:
             | If you visit Denver be sure to visit the Black Box. They're
             | a dnb-focused venue and have an excellent sound system for
             | such a small place.
             | 
             | https://blackboxdenver.co/
        
           | bane wrote:
           | No, it's a major branch of the tree near the top.
        
       | radley wrote:
       | Telekom has been running a fun "Name that Techno Tune" series on
       | YouTube:
       | 
       | https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLfRh37c5lvivabQPDnLGR...
       | 
       | It's pretty challenging to play along.
       | 
       | Edit: I'll just add that these histories are always subjective
       | and regional. This one seems to focus on "pure" techno, but
       | overlooks artists like Ken Ishii and skips over the first peak
       | techno era with Eon, Lords of Acid, Bizarre Inc, etc.
       | 
       | Edit 2: and no mention of Phuture's Acid Tracks? A crime I say!!
        
       | james-bcn wrote:
       | I'm surprised there's no mention of New Order's Blue Monday in
       | there. I thought it was seen as a key moment in the history of
       | techno? Can anyone with more knowledge than me comment on why it
       | isn't there?
       | 
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FYH8DsU2WCk
        
         | radley wrote:
         | There were tons of electronic dance tunes during that period of
         | time. Blue Monday was a great tune and had some great original
         | ideas, but it at the peak of synth pop.
         | 
         | That same year, Phuture released Acid Tracks which influenced
         | Hawtin to make Spastik.
         | 
         | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igNBeo3QSqc
        
         | insickness wrote:
         | Agreed. It is apparently "the biggest selling 12-inch single
         | ever." But maybe because of its classic song structure
         | (verse/chorus), it is not lumped in with what is typically
         | considered techno.
        
         | ahartmetz wrote:
         | I have never seen it mentioned in a history of techno, but it's
         | quite popular with many people who like electronic music today.
        
         | calmoo wrote:
         | I've never heard anything about this track in the context of
         | techno, its a synth pop tune really.
        
           | Tenoke wrote:
           | It's definitely influential and you can occasionally hear it
           | in some of the clubs mentioned in the article to this day
           | (typically at closing).
        
           | james-bcn wrote:
           | Ok. The subtleties of the classification elude me.
        
       | siquick wrote:
       | Quality article covering a lot of good ground. Hard to imagine
       | that this kind of music is now nearly 40 years old.
       | 
       | If anyones interested in hearing what modern techno is up to this
       | is a pretty good list:
       | https://www.soundshelter.net/collection/techno-records
        
         | Scown wrote:
         | Cheers for this... Hadn't heard of Soundshelter, great site!
         | Techno thursday it is then.
        
       | PicassoCTs wrote:
       | Missing:
       | 
       | Bedrock For What you Dream off
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzHmXaUSL6o
       | 
       | Undeworld Born Slippy:
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQGOlawi6n0
        
         | tomduncalf wrote:
         | Haha I listened to For What You Dream Of just yesterday. Great
         | track.
        
         | kristopolous wrote:
         | Check out Underworlds first two rock albums btw. "Change the
         | Weather" will grow on you.
        
       | tbronchain wrote:
       | Techno finds its roots in tribal music. Its repetitive patterns
       | allow deep self-reflection and strong connection to inner
       | feelings.
       | 
       | disclaimer: I love techno
        
         | Ariez wrote:
         | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wx9GH6L7VwI
         | 
         | This one has connected with me recently on that more tribal
         | level!
        
           | tbronchain wrote:
           | Thanks for sharing!
        
           | dekoruotas wrote:
           | HN. Your new definitive guide to Techno.
           | 
           | Good one!
        
         | senorjazz wrote:
         | > Techno finds its roots in tribal music
         | 
         | Not really. Not in the in sense of where the music came from.
         | I'd agree on an enjoyment level it taps into something similar.
         | But the roots of the genre as far as I am aware owe nothing to
         | tribal music.
        
         | wolverine876 wrote:
         | > tribal music
         | 
         | What tribes? Where? When?
         | 
         | Techno is the sound of automation, or as one of the Detroit
         | originators said, 'like James Brown and Kraftwerk stuck in an
         | elevator together'.
        
       | anthk wrote:
       | Just a remark: Spain had much more variety than Valencia's Ruta
       | del Bakalao and Ibiza.
       | 
       | For example Catalan dance clubs made a huge hit here in
       | 90's/early 00's such as Pont Aeri and Scorpia.
        
       | bogomipz wrote:
       | If you want to go back a little further and understand why
       | Germany and Kraftwerk always feature so prominently in articles
       | written about the history of Techno then I recommend reading
       | about WDR Studio in Koln.
       | 
       | WDR Electronic Music Studio was sponsored by the then West German
       | state beginning in the early 1950s. Its charter was basically to
       | promote a musical identity that was a contrast to the GDR's
       | populist state music policy. Kraftwerk's Ralf Hutter listened to
       | the radio broadcasts that came out WDR. Everyone from Karlheinz
       | Stockhausen to Conny Plank worked out of WDR Studios. The
       | following are couple of good articles on WDR Studio:
       | 
       | http://120years.net/wdr-electronic-music-studio-germany-1951...
       | 
       | and
       | 
       | https://daily.redbullmusicacademy.com/2017/08/stockhausen-ph...
       | 
       | This is also a good article on the environment in and around
       | Dusseldorf that birthed some of the artists mentioned in the
       | Beatport article:
       | 
       | https://www.factmag.com/2016/02/02/dusseldorf-krautrock/
        
       | auiya wrote:
       | There's a good track on YouTube that touches on the high points
       | of electronic music since 1929 -
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MqukyEC3qWM
        
       | dirktheman wrote:
       | I'm missing a reference to the hardcore 'gabber' techno which was
       | a hugely popular subculture in The Netherlands in the 1990s...
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gabber
        
         | justaj wrote:
         | That's perhaps because many believe that gabber has more roots
         | in house, rave and punk rather than techno.
        
         | Tenoke wrote:
         | It is mentioned in the article.
        
       | underlines wrote:
       | Does anyone remember the iconic Ishkur's guide to electronic
       | dance music V2.5?
       | 
       | The famous original is still hosted as flash here:
       | http://techno.org/electronic-music-guide/
       | 
       | And after more than a decade the update V3:
       | https://music.ishkur.com/
        
         | omnibrain wrote:
         | You can use the original flash version via BlueMaxima's
         | Flashpoint: https://bluemaxima.org/flashpoint/
        
         | partomniscient wrote:
         | Yes indeed. I actually went looking for it to post here and
         | remembered it was a flash blob, and wondered whether it still
         | existed? I didn't remember who posted it or where, just what it
         | looked like back in the day. Glad you mentioned it otherwise I
         | might still be looking.
        
       | kristopolous wrote:
       | This is about as conventional a narrative as you can get. I've
       | never been happy with it though, it's way too much of a tidy,
       | linear, clean through-line.
       | 
       | For instance, this narrative always leave out free-style and
       | electro like Hashim (example: 1983,
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykK0uEjSsqY), Newcleus, etc.
       | Soulsonic Force (1982:
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHQ11l4uiM4) predated Atkins
       | Cybotron project and Atkins even said he didn't see a huge
       | difference between the free-style, electro, and what he was
       | doing.
       | 
       | It also leaves out Italo Disco and the British New Wave movement.
       | Take the intro to 1983's Hypnotic Tango by My Mine for instance:
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6EbVwOumlE
       | 
       | They do an obligatory Kraftwerk but the entire berlin school and
       | midera is left out in the cold as well (Tangerine Dream for
       | example. 1975, Ricochet P2 for instance
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XoSNbCNYsA4) along with artists
       | who were giant in their day like Jean Michelle Jarre.
       | 
       | Also what's left out are the other influential Krautrock artists
       | like Manuel Gottsching and his 1981 E2-E4 album.
       | (https://youtu.be/ys0HyevZpQg).
       | 
       | There's also the left-field weird albums that were mighty
       | influential at the time, such as Misa Criolla by Fuego (1981:
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Era1x9hRnBQ) There's your "four-
       | on-the-floor" with tape loop sampling. Speaking of children What
       | about the next year, Liaisons Dangereuses - Los Ninos Del Parque
       | ... https://youtu.be/a_sAH2QGotE there's your techno
       | 
       | Or take the Bobby Orlando sounding driving beat in Le Jete - La
       | Cage Aux Folles (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzI2v0RJ8DQ) - a
       | common track of the hot-mix 5. Or Massimo Barsotti's cover of Led
       | Zepplins' Whole Lotta Love
       | (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EsEwWSs-t7w)
       | 
       | Or what about Stopps "I'm Hungry" from 1983?
       | https://youtu.be/I26lP56-UeA ... this strange track was played in
       | Chicago house clubs, Belgium pre rave new beat "acid house"
       | parties and the early EBM scene. Pretty expansive one to leave
       | out
       | 
       | And keeping things in the US, they always ignore the west coast,
       | with outfits like Megatone records out of san francisco and gay
       | club music (eg Hi-NRG) and people like Bobby Orlando.
       | 
       | Anyway the history is vast and rich and this article is
       | essentially the same story that's always written. I dunno, I
       | almost feel like this structure misses the boat. I know that's a
       | big claim.
        
         | jim-jim-jim wrote:
         | I was really confused when I bought a Cybotron record in the
         | 2010s expecting to hear canonical techno. It's totally just
         | electro!
         | 
         | Newcleus is fully sick though. I dunno if people overlook them
         | as a gimmick or what, but the first album is just track after
         | absolute track.
        
           | kristopolous wrote:
           | To be honest I think after the rise of gangsta rap and miami
           | bass, the whole era kinda got discarded: whodini, mantronix,
           | man parrish, egyptian lover, grandmaster flash. Actually you
           | could probably say the writing was on the wall after the
           | decline of the party rockers in 1983-84 (epitomized by the
           | Busy Bee Starski/Kool Moe D battle from 1981). Afrika
           | Bambaataa is still occasionally releasing btw. 2017:
           | https://youtu.be/sOx7VeHPIJY - if you were hoping for a more
           | faithful traditional electro, check out this label instead
           | https://dominanceelectricity.bandcamp.com/
           | 
           | The current narrative still discards it as if big hits like
           | Freeez's IOU and Alexander Robotnick's Problemes d'amour
           | wasn't influential when that style mutated just a tad a year
           | or two later and called itself techno.
           | 
           | Speaking of Cybotron and electro check out Nitro Delux
           | "Journey to Cybotron Transform" off Cutting Records (1986)
        
         | rorykoehler wrote:
         | >Take the intro to 1983's Hypnotic Tango by My Mine for
         | instance: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6EbVwOumlE
         | 
         | It's like a better version of Sven Vath's Electric Salsa.
         | 
         | BTW the link for Manuel Gottsching E2-E4 is the wrong one
         | (duplicate of Hyponotic Tango). Here is the right link:
         | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ys0HyevZpQg
        
           | kristopolous wrote:
           | Yeah fixed it. I wrote that on my cell phone sitting in my
           | driveway.
           | 
           | Also if you like that please check out his 1975 release
           | "Inventions for Electric Guitar".
           | 
           | I can't praise this one enough
           | 
           | https://youtu.be/khejrbgdc4w
        
             | rorykoehler wrote:
             | I liked the e2 e4 album so much I drained my car battery
             | listening to it and now I need to buy a new one.
        
         | dimal wrote:
         | Also strange that "I Feel Love" isn't mentioned. I thought this
         | was the first real electronic dance music song. There was other
         | "electronic music" but "I Feel Love" was strictly for dancing,
         | which was new. "Supernature" is mentioned here, but AFAIK, that
         | was released after "I Feel Love" and is pretty derivative.
        
         | tern wrote:
         | Histories of techno always leave out some of my favorites from
         | the early 2000s Adam Beyer / Drumcode era of fast maximalist
         | techno--Zenit records for instance
         | 
         | https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLPN0gicPJTTUJVhVMzCne...
         | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kOfuXwU6GoQ
         | 
         | And I was surprised they mentioned Surgeon and Regis, but not
         | their Downwards Records
         | 
         | https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLBilbhSIIhgKbRezA7RoO...
        
           | kristopolous wrote:
           | That whole movement was kinda self contained. Early 2000s
           | Central Europe.
           | 
           | There's a party drug contribution that's really instrumental
           | to these movements. I have been thinking of how to do a
           | musical taxonomy by narcotic, but it's hard to do without
           | making everyone sound like a junkie.
           | 
           | New Beat and MDMA, Disco and cocaine, freeform Jazz and
           | heroine, etc. (I'm a big fan of all of these btw, and could
           | likely make you want to "delete my number" talking about
           | them. But pretending like Gino Soccio
           | (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yhAPoip5YeQ) or Tantra
           | (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IyqkePY6FKY) or the partiers
           | listening were sober is personally, not very plausible. Sure,
           | I'm sober, but I'm an outlier)
           | 
           | The big theory here is the genres that seem to compactly come
           | and go in a few years, seem to have a high degree of self
           | similarity in releases (take reggae or psytrance for
           | example), and seem to be popular with the party kids might be
           | heavily linked to a particular single or set of narcotics.
           | 
           | Take happy hardcore for example. Thousands of tracks, labels,
           | artists, a huge culture and scene behind it, of well, to be
           | honest, a bunch of teenagers on drugs. Take psychedelic rock
           | and LSD.
           | 
           | Again, this is a really touchy subject but I kinda think
           | drumcore is in that camp. It follows the same chronological
           | and social patterns and seems to fall in the same circles.
           | 
           | I'm not a drug user but I've been to enough parties to know
           | there's certainly a different prevalence in different
           | circles. It's even more difficult because you know, it's all
           | technically illegal so people aren't entirely forthcoming and
           | people don't tend to leave great documentation of illegal
           | substance use around for future historian study.
           | 
           | Maybe a cross comparison with police arrest reports would be
           | as authoritative as we can get? Even that is tough though
           | because in all the hundreds of underground raves I went to in
           | my teens and twenties in california, police arresting people
           | happened at I believe zero. So that sample size is extremely
           | small.
           | 
           | And even then, everything usually gets consumed rather
           | immediately and if they bust a dealer what they're finding
           | are the unsold inventory so even that's not a good metric,
           | the "empty shelves" are the important ones.
        
             | cmrdporcupine wrote:
             | Yea, that Swedish techno and its offshoots ... it was/is
             | amphetamine music. That's my jerky opinion anyways.
             | 
             | Boom-tss, boom-ts, fist pump
        
           | logotype wrote:
           | I grew up with Drumcode. It was quite common with forest
           | raves here in Sweden, basically a huge sound system in some
           | remote place and people dancing over night. And at one point
           | there were also some organisers who rented a whole cruise
           | liner, with people like Adam Beyer and Thomas Krome DJ'ing.
           | My favourites include: surgeon, headroom, the advent,
           | invexis, chris liebing, planetary assault systems, mark
           | broom, pounding grooves and richie hawtin. Then I fell into
           | the rabbit hole of more experimental music such as autechre
           | and have been stuck there ever since
        
             | hnlmorg wrote:
             | Drumcode is still going strong and Beyer does a weekly
             | podcast, which is excellent (and supports RSS too). I still
             | love that sound even though I'm now far too old to have the
             | stamina to party like I did in the 90s/00s.
             | 
             | IDM has also been a huge love of my life. I'm not sure I
             | could pick a favourite out of techno or IDM though. But
             | Drumcode Radio is certainly good music to run to.
             | 
             | Slam did a rather nice podcast that sat somewhere between
             | techno and experimental. I don't know if their podcast is
             | still going but their RSS feed has certainly stopped :(
        
               | comprev wrote:
               | Drumcode has become the EDM festival gateway to many
               | people and has earned the nickname "business techno".
               | Gently bobbing along at 125-128 with predictable
               | buildups/breakdowns and is very "FX friendly" on the
               | mixer.
        
               | hnlmorg wrote:
               | Aside from the beat rate, what you've described there
               | could equally apply to all genres of dance music. Almost
               | every track follows the same rules phrasing and has a 4/4
               | time signature (often with really accented four-to-the-
               | floor kicks or percussion). The predictable buildups and
               | breakdowns are a feature: most people can't dance to
               | something they can't follow. Just look at how differently
               | people dance to IDM (it's not uncommon to see a mosh pit
               | at some gigs). That said, even IDM has a good few tracks
               | with a predictable phrasings to them too.
               | 
               | Sure, some genres are more predictable than others
               | (hardhouse, for example, is effectively the "painting by
               | numbers" equivalent of EDM) but as a retired DJ who used
               | to mix on 3+ decks and throw in the odd non 4/4 track too
               | (typically 3/4 but I had some more esoteric records too),
               | I can't think of many tracks from many genres that were
               | particularly hard to DJ.
               | 
               | ...well there was this one track that was difficult, not
               | because of the phrasing nor time signature, but because
               | the producer decided to _fade in_ the start of the track.
               | Very unhelpful that!
               | 
               | What I've written here also applies to a significant
               | amount of rock and it's various sub-genres too.
               | 
               | As for the "FX friendly on the mixer", that's been
               | technos style since the 90s. It's nothing new and
               | certainly not anything specific to Drumcode. Richie
               | Hawtin even released a compilation album called "Decks,
               | EFX & 909" in 1999 and his style is _very_ different to
               | Adam Beyer 's. In the early 00s Misstress Barbara wrote
               | in a cover sleeve on one of her mixes about how her sets
               | were about creating new compositions live using 3 decks,
               | heavy EQing and effects. Her style also differed
               | massively from Drumcode.
               | 
               | Source: retired DJ and producer. Not a household name but
               | played a few gigs in and around London. Mostly techno but
               | with house, electro, breaks, EBM, rock, metal, industrial
               | and pretty much anything else thrown in that had the
               | right vibe to it.
        
           | cmrdporcupine wrote:
           | It's funny because I guess I'm old but that kind of stuff
           | feels sort of like the "end of the road" for techno and not
           | part of the history, more of the end of the history.
           | 
           | I liked some of it at the time -- I have some of the Code Red
           | Adam Beyer stuff on coloured red vinyl somewhere -- but it's
           | a bit soul-less and monolithic. A very white middle class
           | European straightlaced "thump thump thump" interpretation of
           | the genre.
           | 
           | The stuff from Europe in the late 90s and early 2000s that I
           | loved the most that got left out of the "techno history" was
           | the "No Future" / Scandinavian Records school -- Neil
           | Landstrumm, Cristian Vogel, Dave Tarrida, etc. really wonky
           | wonk stuff, very creative. That's what I was playing back
           | then.
        
             | tern wrote:
             | I totally agree for 90, even 99% of the tracks from that
             | era, but there are some serious gems in there. I really
             | enjoy the Youtube account "TECHNO" for finding some of it.
             | A few producers that stood out to me: Kobaya, Rino Cerrone,
             | Samuel L. Session, Leandro Gamez, G-Force, Tomie Nevada,
             | Headroom, Gaetano Parisio, Damon Wild & Echoplex (slightly
             | difference scene), Ade Fenton ... and many others less
             | famous and with fewer releases.
             | 
             | Adam Beyer's tracks himself and most of the stuff on
             | Drumcode from any era though is totally boring, I agree.
             | And we can also agree the Neil Landstrumm and Cristian
             | Vogel (I'd argue early Villalobos too) are the height of
             | the end of techno history.
             | 
             | Quite possibly I just like this stuff because it reminds me
             | of video game soundtracks from the era.
        
               | cmrdporcupine wrote:
               | Damon Wild, that's good stuff.
               | 
               | Here, crack a cool one and breathe this in, for a little
               | while:
               | 
               | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3RFY8GK5PAA
        
             | spiralx wrote:
             | > I liked some of it at the time -- I have some of the Code
             | Red Adam Beyer stuff on coloured red vinyl somewhere -- but
             | it's a bit soul-less and monolithic. A very white middle
             | class European straightlaced "thump thump thump"
             | interpretation of the genre.
             | 
             | I've got a couple of those records and I can tell you that
             | Adam Beyer and Drumcode still sound like that today,
             | they've really nailed that "far duller than it sounds" sub-
             | genre of techno.
             | 
             | > The stuff from Europe in the late 90s and early 2000s
             | that I loved the most that got left out of the "techno
             | history" was the "No Future" / Scandinavian Records school
             | -- Neil Landstrumm, Cristian Vogel, Dave Tarrida, etc.
             | really wonky wonk stuff, very creative. That's what I was
             | playing back then.
             | 
             | I managed to see Landstrumm play two days before the start
             | of lockdown last March as part of the 20 Years of Don't
             | evening at the Bangface Weekender, how's that for good
             | timing? :)
             | 
             | https://bangface.com/weekender2020/lineup/
             | 
             | I was going out to a lot of squat parties that played it in
             | the 00s when there was tons of it coming out of London from
             | labels like Don't, Yolk, Chancer, Victim and 4x4
             | Recordings, and also went to Jerome Hill's Uglyfunk night
             | regularly (it's still going in fact but I've not made it
             | there recently). Mark Hawkins was probably my favourite
             | producer followed by Jerome Hill and Michael Forshaw.
        
               | cmrdporcupine wrote:
               | Nice man.
               | 
               | I've only managed to see Landstrumm twice, cuz of being
               | on this side of the pond. Once in the early 2000s he DJ'd
               | along with DJ Hell at a local club, and actually he was
               | quite competent on the vinyl (more than Hell was) and he
               | played a lot of Chicago and Detroit classics. It was a
               | good night if I recall.
               | 
               | The other time was actually very recent (2019), someone I
               | know locally knows him personally and brought him over
               | into my local small Ontario city to play live. Small gig,
               | maybe 50 people there. Even got to shake his hand and say
               | hi.
               | 
               | Def. one of my favourite musicians in the genre.
        
               | spiralx wrote:
               | I also saw him as Crystal Distortion back in the mid-00s
               | at Uglyfunk and as himself in the early 10s, so that's
               | only one more time than you :)
               | 
               | I'm a big fan of Detroit ghetto-tech like DJ Godfather,
               | and have a similar problem of it only existing on the
               | other side of the Atlantic... The weekender I mentioned
               | has had at least one of the top DJs over every other year
               | or so over the last decade which is amazing, because
               | otherwise I've been out to see it played three times in
               | the past two decades, so I feel your pain :)
        
               | cmrdporcupine wrote:
               | I believe I saw Godfather and some others in that vein at
               | the first Detroit Electronic Music Festival back in 2000.
               | Maybe in 2001.
               | 
               | Sweet little Canadian me was ... shocked ... by the way
               | people uh, danced to that stuff.
        
               | spiralx wrote:
               | Hah, I bet, watching people dancing to it in Boiler Room
               | videos is different enough from what I'm used to, and
               | that's got to be a lot tamer than you'd see somewhere
               | without cameras filming the entire thing!
               | 
               | The first time I saw this clip it was amazing how distant
               | it was from everything I've experienced since going to my
               | first club in 1995 - and the video is from closer to 1995
               | than 1995 is to today!
               | 
               | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EarSRa19sZc
               | 
               | I've seen Model 500 and wasn't impressed to be honest,
               | but then again electro isn't my thing at all so that's
               | more about me lol, my friends enjoyed it a lot :)
        
               | cmrdporcupine wrote:
               | Electro was my thing back then. But I think I'd tire of a
               | whole gig of just Model 500.
               | 
               | The DEMF dancefloor vibe while the booty stuff was
               | playing was... raunchy. Like full on grinding, ass
               | rubbing, etc. Didn't see that stuff at clubs here. The
               | rave/club/techno scene back then here was pretty
               | androgynous and public displays of affection would have
               | been very gauche. Not so in Detroit at certain gigs
        
               | spiralx wrote:
               | First time I saw DJ Godfather they had DJ Stingray play
               | before him and I enjoyed that style of modern harder
               | electro a lot more, if only because the production was so
               | much better :)
               | 
               | The scene here was neither androgynous nor restrained in
               | the public displaying of affection - but overtly sexual
               | displays were very much in the minority and stood out,
               | probably because British people loved being able to shed
               | our passively-aggressive polite and emotionally stunted
               | personas for an evening by consuming large amounts of
               | pills and just wanting to dance and hug people ;)
               | 
               | I've seen some full-on stuff at squat parties though.
               | Ecstasy and alcohol can make people _completely_ lose
               | their inhibitions lol.
        
         | l33tbro wrote:
         | Agree. It's always such a 'just so' with these kinds of
         | articles about Detroit techno. That being said, I think
         | Kraftwerk is actually a little underrated in their influence. I
         | know that probably seems hard to believe given the praise they
         | got, but there was something about the spectre of 4 white robo-
         | mannequins that triggered some latent afro-futurist impulse
         | that, for me, goes back to Sun Ra and Alice Coltrane.
        
           | rchaud wrote:
           | Daft Punk is the biggest electronic group in recent memory
           | and wouldn't exist without Kraftwerk (and italo-disco).
           | 
           | Similarly, Underworld of "Born Slippy NUXX" fame in the '90s,
           | are indebted to Kraftwerk (and Brian Eno) as well.
        
         | alisonatwork wrote:
         | It's a shame this isn't the top comment, because it's a lot
         | more interesting than Ishkur's smartassery and all the across-
         | the-pond sniping.
         | 
         | There used to be a great website called Deep House Page which
         | archived loads of Hot Mix 5 mixes, and you could really hear
         | just how diverse that early era of post-disco dance music was,
         | before it even got pigeonholed into "house" or "techno" and the
         | myriad of subgenres that came since. Sadly the page has
         | disappeared, and I'm not sure where to find the mixes now.
         | 
         | Meanwhile, in parallel, people in other countries were
         | experimenting with synthesizers and unconventional composition
         | too. I remember finding mixtapes of an obscure Australian band
         | called Hugo Klang (https://hugoklang.bandcamp.com/) who were
         | doing techno-y stuff with the 303 a few years before Phuture
         | put together their seminal tune.
         | 
         | Without a doubt the big names that everyone remembers as the
         | progenitors were hugely influential. Already in the 90s people
         | were writing articles that started out exactly like this one,
         | so we're already a full generation into the myth. But it's
         | still interesting to go digging and find all the other stuff
         | that surely played a part in influencing all the other people
         | whose stories never got written up.
        
           | kristopolous wrote:
           | I have all the dhp mp3s archived somewhere if you want one
        
         | evanelias wrote:
         | Great song picks. Absolutely agree. Hell, the article even
         | largely omits the massive influence of house on techno in
         | general, as most of these narratives seem to do.
         | 
         | As a result, many people seem to think techno preceded house.
         | But taking the view that Juan Atkins' early 80s work was
         | basically electro and not yet really "techno", it's pretty
         | clear that house was already quite prevalent prior to techno
         | becoming a distinct genre.
         | 
         | And even then, early 80s italo-disco was leagues ahead of house
         | in terms of production quality... a few of my personal
         | favorites:
         | 
         | Charlie - "Spacer Woman" (1983)
         | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZDPCjEoIMI
         | 
         | Klapto - "Mister Game" (1983)
         | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQUVg-HCjEE
         | 
         | Mr Flagio - "Take a Chance" (1983)
         | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDV_dBYp4h0
         | 
         | Fun Fun - "Happy Station" (1983)
         | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bb5B1C5PFVo
         | 
         | Meanwhile on the house side we have debatable-first-house-
         | record Jesse Saunders "On and On" (1984)
         | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUeMFG4wjJw. Although my
         | personal favorite under-appreciated proto-house pick would
         | actually be from nyc, Boyd Jarvis "The Music Got Me" (1983)
         | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYfG8tcEl3E.
         | 
         | These articles always mention "Shari Vari" since it's so early
         | (1981) and influential (and still good!) but I always find it
         | odd that they omit so many great tracks from the next few
         | years.
        
           | kristopolous wrote:
           | These are all nice and currently somewhat famous as much as
           | tracks from that era go.
           | 
           | The question here, and most of this stems from the
           | deephousepage reference elsewhere in this thread, is that in
           | the actual 80s tape recordings (I've got an archive of most
           | of them) from say WBMX or WBLS or any contemporary first hand
           | accounts, I don't see these tracks playing prominently.
           | 
           | The more heavily played are things we may find less
           | interesting today such as Pamala Stanley - Coming Out Of
           | Hiding https://youtube.com/watch?v=M6G8dKgsEG0 ... catchy 80s
           | pop, ok. You listen to the old recordings and this song comes
           | up frequently. Also Bobby Orlando's dozen songs that all
           | sound the same come up a lot (the flirts, divine, ronnie
           | griffith, i spies) probably because their similarity in bpm
           | and key made them versatile toys for the 80s dj.
           | 
           | Our perception of the past through the lens that the modern
           | world "as a context" creates defines a narrative that we
           | impose on the events.
           | 
           | I'm interested in I guess two things here. From simplest to
           | hardest
           | 
           | 1. What's the perceived reality of who heard/influenced what
           | and why do we tell ourselves that
           | 
           | 2. What's the actual reality and where's the evidence?
           | 
           | We have the mighty Memex machine at our fingertips and can
           | immediately call up forgotten songs from far off lands with a
           | few twitches of our fingertips. A Japanese synthesizer album
           | from the 70s, a bollywood orchestration from the 60s and say
           | a funk song from the Bronx in 1971, immediately recognize a
           | through line and claim "aha, these are connected". But how
           | would this fiction be possible in "before the internet" days?
           | Records traveled, ok, Goa beach parties were real, sure. But
           | I want to be careful in trying to remove my "person of the
           | future" context in trying to understand the past
           | 
           | For instance, there's a bunch of Mexican knockoffs of italo
           | disco tracks in the 80s and they could get away with it
           | because Italy and Mexico are far away from each other.
           | 
           | I wrote an article about this 4 years ago, let me quote it:
           | 
           | The 1987 Mexico release Trebol - TI - 71161, produced by J.
           | Brenner of Mannequin, "Boom Bam"
           | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XqLt7SwaN90
           | 
           | is a nearly 100% knock-off of the 1986 Italian release SQ
           | 87504, produced by Miki Chieregato and Roberto Turatti, of
           | Paul Lekakis, "Boom Boom":
           | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0ovsnO7Akg
           | 
           | So yeah, that's an example of the context warp.
           | 
           | Now given that, who actually heard and owned what and how it
           | happened is tough. Famous people know how important origin
           | stories are and so they tend to not be great self
           | documentarians. It makes the whole thing tricky especially
           | since not very many people take this as obsessively as I do
           | so the records are continually destroyed and altered
        
         | 3dee wrote:
         | No music style appeared out of nowhere. So it will always be
         | hard to pinpoint where things started. Maybe it is even
         | impossible.
         | 
         | I always have a mixed feeling about music style
         | classifications. It shifts focus from the music to discussions
         | about what style a piece of music is.
         | 
         | Maybe techno originated from rhytmic tribe music. Who knows.
         | Personally I don't care.
        
           | kristopolous wrote:
           | The classification limits the perception like the Himbu color
           | experiment.
           | 
           | That's why these early pre-language explorations are great.
           | 
           | Luckily there's a lot of independent artists these days that
           | are exploring things and refusing to label them with an
           | abstract genre.
           | 
           | We need our modern John Cages to feel empowered. I think it's
           | important.
        
             | hnlmorg wrote:
             | I was one of those independent artists and frankly it was
             | sometimes a lot harder to get booked in the early to mid
             | 00s because people started to identify themselves with
             | those labels. The techno crowd were generally more open
             | minded but outside of that things would often get
             | ridiculously pigeon-holed.
        
         | DanBC wrote:
         | > Hashim (example: 1983,
         | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykK0uEjSsqY)
         | 
         | From the YT description:
         | 
         | "As stated below by Jerry Calliste Jr., this video is not and
         | original version of Hashim - Al Naafiysh (The Soul). Probably
         | it was made for the purposes of one of the UK television
         | programs, like " The Tube", during the early 80's. This
         | recording is one of the first hip hop stories to be seen and
         | published on the British Television. The track "Al Naafiysh
         | (The Soul), was originally used for this video, added by
         | unknown author or crew which worked on the video, as the only
         | thing that was known so far, was Geoff Stern, the director."
         | 
         | One clue to this is that there isn't anyone smoking in the
         | video, and the tube windows have a "no smoking" roundel. The
         | smoking ban on the London Underground came in on the 9th July
         | 1984.
        
           | kristopolous wrote:
           | Yep. Not an original video at all. It's still great.
           | 
           | These days sometimes the artist makes a video for an old
           | song. For instance, Earlene Bentley made a video for "Caught
           | In The Act" 23 years after she released it.
           | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=55KOBCgv7f4
           | 
           | It's not exactly common, but it's interesting to see it what
           | it happens. (her "big" hit btw, in the early 80s, in
           | specifically gay clubs was "The Boys Come To Town"
           | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gl0fBil_4dU) ... it has that
           | 80s hard driving orchestration ... pretty nice. The
           | instrumentals are _occasionally_ sampled on this one, about
           | as much as Two Tons o ' Fun are. It's always nice to overhear
           | the latest pop song and be like "oh look, there's Barbara
           | Roy's instrumentals from If you want me still living on".
           | (https://youtu.be/lOCMRk8Nex4?t=272 for the uninitiated)
        
         | cpach wrote:
         | Just out of curiosity: What do you mean by New Wave in this
         | context? When I hear new wave I think of acts such as Adam and
         | the Ants and Duran Duran. But are they related to techno?
        
           | kristopolous wrote:
           | Yeah, absolutely. You're just a few steps away with a lot of
           | Duran Duran (Rio era) and records like Night Move's
           | Transdance arguably gets there.
           | 
           | I mean heck, take Polices Synchronicity part 1,
           | https://youtu.be/Si5CSpUCDGY. If someone told me that was how
           | an album by underworld or say sasha started from 1999, I'd
           | believe it, swap the vocals and the physical drums with some
           | synths and it's basically done
        
             | l33tbro wrote:
             | I feel no-wave also might have been influential. ESG could
             | easily be read as proto-techno in this context. 'Erase You'
             | and 'Dance' have that same kind of reductionist, tribal
             | sensibility.
        
               | kristopolous wrote:
               | Their track "Moody (Spaced Out)" shares a strange
               | similarity with Atmosfears "Dancing in Outer Space". I'm
               | sure it's independent, it just made me think of it right
               | away
        
               | l33tbro wrote:
               | Both great tracks! You ever see the criminally underrated
               | film 'Vampire's Kiss' with Nicholas Cage? Features ESG
               | playing that song live in a club.
        
           | jjgreen wrote:
           | In the UK in the late 70's, New Wave was just post-punk
           | without the vomit.
        
         | _the_inflator wrote:
         | They try to be as concise as possible.
         | 
         | For example, they completely missed out Front 242, Nitzer Ebb.
         | However they at least mention the genre, EBM.
         | 
         | And to be honest: what is techno else than Tallas invention in
         | a record store? Frontpage magazine? So many things left out,
         | but who cares? You either witnessed parts of the 90th or not.
         | ;)
         | 
         | I never understood my parents fondness for Woodstock and how an
         | e guitar could be the center of a "sound revolution". Around 30
         | years later, I really understand them: Dorian Gray, Loveparade,
         | 303. ;)
        
           | TonyTrapp wrote:
           | > They try to be as concise as possible.
           | 
           | Calling it the "definitive history of techno" and then trying
           | to be as concise as possible seems a bit presumptuous to me,
           | though...
        
           | kristopolous wrote:
           | I think my main contention can be illustrated by trying to
           | discover where Disco comes from. I was looking for this kind
           | of shoestring style story for years.
           | 
           | Then I gave up trying to construct it. The reality is it's a
           | bunch of things smashed together like pressing all the
           | buttons at the soda fountain at once. That's what happened.
           | 
           | That's where techno came from as well.
           | 
           | Sometimes the narratives are super clean, like rappers
           | delight for rap (there's pre rappers delight style rap
           | records, but under like a dozen or so) or the amen break and
           | dnb or the configuration of the swing drum kit for swing
           | music or house music proper being "the stuff knuckles plays"
           | in Chicago.
           | 
           | But a few styles are inherently messy with no clean lines.
           | Rock, Disco and Techno are three
           | 
           | Rock is especially super messy, here's Meade Lux Lewis in
           | 1927 for instance, https://youtu.be/tDuLezFRMNU swap the
           | piano with a guitar and you have 50s rock
        
             | evanelias wrote:
             | > I think my main contention can be illustrated by trying
             | to discover where Disco comes from.
             | 
             | Isn't the concise answer Philadelphia? :) Partially joking,
             | I know this is an oversimplification.
             | 
             | In any case, this interview with Earl Young from The
             | Trammps, discussing the origin of four-on-the-floor, is
             | pure gold: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gsf51_a1ceI
        
             | zwp wrote:
             | Thanks for your great contributions in this thread.
             | 
             | Can you please help me understand "rock is super messy"?
             | The traditional narrative is "rock was mostly derived from
             | blues (+ some other influences)" but the counter(?)example
             | you provided is a classic 12 bar blues.
             | 
             | Do you have some messier examples? Or did I miss your
             | point?
        
               | mmmmmk wrote:
               | The book, The Seventh Stream, by Phil Ennis is a good
               | resource to understand the origins of rock. It is a lot
               | more complicated than just the blues.
        
           | insickness wrote:
           | They actually did mention Nitzer Ebb if you do a ctrl-F. Yes,
           | very cool techno-ish, minimal seminal music. Ritchie Hawtin
           | used to spin Murderous into his sets.
           | 
           | Recently there was a cool documentary about Wax Trax records
           | called Industrial Accident. Worth seeing. Interviews with
           | Front 242, Ministry, Revolting Cocks, KMFDM, Thrill Kill
           | Kult, Trent Reznor, Frontline Assembly, etc.
        
             | wiz21c wrote:
             | Any reference about that documentary ? The rev's, FLA, 242,
             | all my not so youth :-)
        
               | [deleted]
        
               | evanelias wrote:
               | Another vote for that documentary, it's absolutely a joy.
               | Not streaming for free anywhere, but worth the cost:
               | http://www.waxtraxfilms.com/
        
         | wiz21c wrote:
         | Thanks for bringing this. This article basically looks at what
         | beatports has to propose but it just totally forgets so many
         | things that it's not even funny. What about "pop corn" too ?
        
           | kristopolous wrote:
           | I don't think popcorn is part of it to be honest. It's some
           | adjacent siderail of groups like Mannheim Steamroller or BBC
           | Radiophonic (eg Delia Derbyshire/Dr Who theme) or for that
           | matter, video game music.
           | 
           | Check out the "Soothing Sounds for Baby" album by Raymond
           | Scott (1962) for an early example of this.
           | 
           | To put Popcorn in comparison to what would be on the techno
           | track at that time, look at Hugo Montenegro's Moog album,
           | released the same year. His MacArthur Park rendition I would
           | argue is a closer direct ancestor to techno being in the
           | pursuit of electronic dance. Direct link
           | https://youtu.be/eNM6187cznE
           | 
           | There's certainly "bridges" between the worlds like the 1979
           | Automat album https://youtu.be/w7nQHBiv_u0 or the Droids
           | "Star Peace" but synth and techno are kinda like the
           | catholics and eastern orthodox, they split off a long time
           | ago and kinda have their own worlds.
        
           | Tenoke wrote:
           | To be fair, it'd need to be a book to cover everything and
           | they include quite a lot here.
        
       | mmmmmk wrote:
       | I'm a little confused by the American focus of the article.
       | Kraftwerk's Autobahne came out in 1974, and there was a well
       | established electronic movement coming out of krautrock, which
       | became techno. Americans were late to the scene.
        
         | yowlingcat wrote:
         | > which became techno
         | 
         | > Americans were late to the scene
         | 
         | I think you've got to pick one or the other. It became techno
         | in America in a culturally deeply American way. I wish people
         | would embrace the cultural exchange and parallel/convergent
         | evolution at the core of musical evolution instead of holding
         | on to laughably provincial notions of cosmogony.
        
           | mmmmmk wrote:
           | I'm not holding onto laughably provincial notions of
           | cosmogony- it is just strange to start a history of a subject
           | several years after its development, and only make passing
           | reference to its progenitors. Krautrock developed into
           | electronic music, including Kraftwerk, who coined the term
           | 'techno'
        
             | yowlingcat wrote:
             | > I'm not holding onto laughably provincial notions of
             | cosmogony
             | 
             | > it is just strange to ... only make passing reference to
             | its progenitors
             | 
             | Which one is it?
             | 
             | Electronic music didn't begin with Krautrock, it began with
             | avant garde composers pushing limits. Messiaen, Ives,
             | Varese, Cage; all of this in the late 19th century to early
             | 20th century. Krautrock itself is deeply indebted to its
             | own stylistic progenitors in American minimalism, including
             | artists like Terry Riley (as well as Germans like Karl
             | Stockhausen). Assuming you're not trying to make proto-
             | nationalistic strawmans in service of which scene was the
             | "one true" progenitor, it's hard to do anything but to
             | think globally -- otherwise, you'll miss the forest for the
             | trees.
             | 
             | I always felt that part of the joy of Krautrock was in how
             | it was able to rebel against American influence and
             | conservative German mores while dialectically integrating
             | its raw materials. But that's why I would caution against
             | being too territorial about these things. It's why I warn
             | against provinciality. Electronic music developed in
             | parallel across the globe, much like all modern music.
        
               | mmmmmk wrote:
               | You're being a bit too clever. The term 'techno' is
               | attributed to Kraftwerk who were hugely influential for
               | all forms of electronic music after them. It is strange
               | to only mention them briefly later on, and present it as
               | the history of techno.
        
               | [deleted]
        
               | jldl805 wrote:
               | Maybe the "term" but the "genre" techno was really born
               | in Detroit. Not a really controversial statement.
        
               | [deleted]
        
               | [deleted]
        
         | anthk wrote:
         | Kraftwerk wasn't the first group/soloer doing electronic music.
        
       | josht wrote:
       | I recently discovered Boris Brejcha and can't recommend him
       | enough. He has a great live set at Grand Palaris that's
       | phenomenal:
       | 
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqz8c4ZP3Wg.
       | 
       | I find live performances quite nostalgic for obvious (pandemic)
       | reasons. Along those same lines, Fatboy Slim at BA i360 in
       | Brighton UK is worth experiencing:
       | 
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8AvC05kXS9I.
        
       | dbcooper wrote:
       | Music for Programming is a great site for electronic music mixes
       | that are suitable for working to.
       | 
       | https://musicforprogramming.net/
        
       | wolverine876 wrote:
       | I posted it below, but here's an amazing history of the Music
       | Institute in the late 1980s, in a way the peak of the scene where
       | techno was created:
       | 
       | http://music.hyperreal.org/lists/313/08.html
        
       | siquick wrote:
       | If anyone wants more then Techno Rebels by Dan Sicko is widely
       | considered to be the bible for the early history of Techno from
       | Detroit.
       | 
       | https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/493341.Techno_Rebels
        
       | mqp wrote:
       | I'm pleased to see accuracy in the history of techno.
       | 
       | I for one did not know it's roots took place back in the 70s and
       | from the black community.
       | 
       | These days when I look at techno artists and their raving
       | followers, its prodimently white. I have since taken active steps
       | to seek out the lesser know black artists to support.
       | 
       | Many modern music fundamentals are origins from the black
       | community and very little is correctly attributed and/or black
       | artists are sidelined.
        
         | SvenMarquardt wrote:
         | Detroit techno is a completely different beast to the modern
         | European techno scene. Less than 1% of DJs playing at Berghain
         | are black. Modern techno is dominated by Europeans.
        
         | HKH2 wrote:
         | It's not uncommon for a popular techno artist to talk about how
         | Detroit techno influenced them. As far as I've seen, Detroit
         | techno artists, most often Black, are given a lot of respect
         | for their contributions, so I would like to hear about who was
         | sidelined or not correctly attributed.
        
         | jamal-kumar wrote:
         | If you want to see quite the videos check these out:
         | 
         | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CV8_eUJ6C1w [ Acid Mix Detroit
         | Chicago - New Dance Show 1989 ]
         | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rz2wInkVkRU [ Techno Jam - New
         | Dance Show 1989 ] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9aUAqboAvQM [
         | City of Techno (Detroit) - New Dance Show 1991 ]
         | 
         | Great examples of the racial diversity in the early scene in
         | Detroit. I think this was some public access TV show?
         | 
         | Anyways speaking from living in Latin America the scene here is
         | HUGE for techno and house, I would probably say the numbers
         | here are bigger and more diverse than I've seen for the same
         | scene in North America and balance out the melanation factor
         | quite a lot
        
           | Toutouxc wrote:
           | It's bizarre and charming at the same time to hear music so
           | similar to the colder, minimal kind of techno you'd expect to
           | hear at a dark themed party in a shady club full of edgy
           | young people, and see the happy, well dressed, colorful,
           | smiling people in the video.
        
             | jamal-kumar wrote:
             | It's good vibin videos for sure, looked like a great time
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | SvenMarquardt wrote:
           | Yes, LATAM has the wildest contemporary techno scene after
           | Europe. The US had next to no techno scene pre-pandemic, a
           | party or two in NY or LA each weekend was it, now its dead.
        
             | jamal-kumar wrote:
             | Yeah they even have a hardtechno/schranz thing going on in
             | Colombia and Venezuela, bit too turbo for me but still cool
             | 
             | Colombia had someone spinning that who was when she was
             | still alive quite the amusement because she changed her
             | name to ladyzunga cyborg and then... this
             | 
             | https://cdn.images.express.co.uk/img/dynamic/80/590x/Colomb
             | i...
             | 
             | RIP abcdefg hijklmn opqrst uvwxyz
        
         | devmunchies wrote:
         | > it's roots took place ... from the black community
         | 
         | > origins from the black community
         | 
         | gotta give credit to the engineers who pioneered electronic
         | music synthesis, like Robert Moog, or the Japanese who created
         | Korg synthesizers in the article.
         | 
         | Influences for any technology, project, art, etc come from a
         | large web of sources. Racial gatekeeping and attribution is
         | close-minded.
         | 
         | Let the people enjoy techno without guilt.
        
           | jamal-kumar wrote:
           | Why guilt? The first stuff anyone started calling techno was
           | pretty black. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bhtdRd9AuIs
           | 
           | And that's OK, there's literally nothing wrong with this. I
           | think there's also a lot of stuff to be said about how
           | there's anecdotes about how the early rave scene had a lot of
           | previously unheard of racial unity going on, stuff like
           | skinhead and rasta gangs or even rival football ultras
           | encountering each other and literally just vibing when they'd
           | be fighting each other before
        
             | devmunchies wrote:
             | > Why guilt?
             | 
             | GP made it seem like whites being a big part of current
             | techno scene is bad.
             | 
             | > The first stuff anyone started calling techno was pretty
             | black
             | 
             | you could say the first stuff anyone started calling
             | electronic music was pretty white. point is, racial
             | attribution for something that has a huge array of
             | influences is silly.
             | 
             | > unheard of racial unity going on
             | 
             | yes, the way it should be.
        
               | zozbot234 wrote:
               | This article is about techno specifically, not electronic
               | music. There's a lot of electronic music that has nothing
               | to do with techno - techno is a genre, like chiptune,
               | trance or dubstep.
        
               | devmunchies wrote:
               | > As part of Beatportal's new series on the history of
               | electronic dance music, Marcus Barnes explores the rich
               | history of techno, from the 1970s right through to today.
               | 
               | it's a series about electronic music history.
        
               | wolverine876 wrote:
               | > GP made it seem like whites being a big part of current
               | techno scene is bad.
               | 
               | I don't see that; I don't see any "guilt", using your
               | word. Can you point it out? People have other motives.
               | 
               | My impression is that you brought your own (reactionary?)
               | bias to it, using a reactionary talking point whether it
               | really applies or not. Why bring down someone who is
               | trying to expand their experiences, knowledge, and
               | community, in a world where racism is common and leads to
               | many people being excluded. We should work to include -
               | that's great, creative, positive; there's no reason it
               | needs to be motivated by guilt.
        
               | devmunchies wrote:
               | This confuses the heck out of me. I saw my comment as the
               | more inclusive.
               | 
               | > using a reactionary talking point
               | 
               | ???
        
               | wolverine876 wrote:
               | Probably your first time discussing these things on the
               | Internet!
        
         | mixmastamyk wrote:
         | One root is there definitely in America. However this piece
         | overlooks the work of Kraftwerk and Tangerine Dream in Europe
         | in the early 1970s.
        
         | senorjazz wrote:
         | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9WpudasPafg
         | 
         | Good documentary on the origins of house and techno from 70s
         | disco, to 4 to the floor disco and the coming of the 808, how
         | this moved to house in chicago and some sci fi nerds with a
         | love for kraftwerk in detroit started techno. Then how the UK
         | got involved and these DJs from the US, used to playing to
         | 50-80 people in tiny underground, often gay clubs would come to
         | the UK and play to 10,000 in massive outdoor / warehouse events
         | and rave was born
        
           | mdbauman wrote:
           | For anyone seeing the copyright claim and wondering what this
           | was, it seems to be a BBC documentary called _Can You Feel It
           | - How Dance Music Conquered the World._
           | https://www.imdb.com/title/tt11719632/
        
         | anthk wrote:
         | White European here (Spain).
         | 
         | Black people in the US invented basically the three modern
         | music roots:
         | 
         | - Blues/Rock
         | 
         | - Techno
         | 
         | - Rap
         | 
         | The problem is rap had much better marketing in the US, ditto
         | with rhythm and blues in the 90's.
        
           | wolverine876 wrote:
           | Omitting jazz from the list of African-American musical
           | innovations is like omitting goal-scoring from Messi's
           | achievements or MacOS from Apple's.
           | 
           | Also, by "rap" I think you mean 'hip-hop', which includes
           | sampling and mixing, especially using turntables.
           | 
           | > Well, blues is the son of jazz music :)
           | 
           | Try some Muddy Waters and John Coltrane, listen, then report
           | back.
           | 
           | With due respect, beyond every form of music being related to
           | every other (just like you are probably a distant relative of
           | mine), they are such different genres that my impression of
           | the comment - which could be completely wrong - is that the
           | commenter has not listed to jazz, blues, or both.
        
           | dpeck wrote:
           | Can't forget jazz there either.
           | 
           | And I'd argue that blues and rock are separate, but that most
           | rock until late 90s was heavily influenced by blues. But
           | that's all just fun trying to draw lines where there isn't a
           | clear difference sometimes.
        
             | anthk wrote:
             | Well, blues is the son of jazz music :)
             | 
             | PD: I didn't put Blues/Rock as separate entities, but two
             | genres where late blues albums could be considered
             | something as proto-rock. And ditto with jazz-swing-blues.
             | It's like a continuum.
        
               | te_chris wrote:
               | More like the father!
        
               | anthk wrote:
               | Oh, TIL. As blues got played until really long (until it
               | gave birth to rock), I tought the opposite.
        
       | npunt wrote:
       | Neat article but completely unnecessary scrolljacking. If you
       | pinch zoom in, you can't even pan around normally. Scroll down a
       | bit and then tap the (also completely unnecessary) arrow in the
       | bottom right, and it'll ever.. so.. slowly.. scroll you back to
       | the top.
       | 
       | The web gives bad designers too much rope to hang everyone with.
        
         | radley wrote:
         | Beatport has been a UI nightmare since the SFX acquisition back
         | in 2014.
        
         | busymom0 wrote:
         | Agreed. Smooth scrolling should never be used in majority text
         | readable sites.
         | 
         | I ended up using the "Reader view" on Safari read it.
         | 
         | I archived it and here's the archive version of it to avoid the
         | scrolling problem:
         | 
         | https://archive.is/rk0DB
        
         | dang wrote:
         | " _Please don 't complain about website formatting, back-button
         | breakage, and similar annoyances. They're too common to be
         | interesting. Exception: when the author is present. Then
         | friendly feedback might be helpful._"
         | 
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
        
         | chmod775 wrote:
         | It has some custom... sloooow... smooth scrolling
         | implementation.
         | 
         | I have smooth scrolling turned off because it makes me
         | impatient. You can't continue reading while everything is
         | moving. Now _slow_ smooth scrolling...
        
         | pornel wrote:
         | Yup, it's all wobbly and either scrolls too slowly or jumps and
         | I lose my position.
         | 
         | I can't read it.
        
       | elric wrote:
       | Happy to see that New Beat got a shoutout. IMO one of the more
       | under rated electronic genres. If you're interested, I can
       | recommend the documentary "The Sound of Belgium" (2012).
        
       | tomduncalf wrote:
       | Cool to see so much discussion about techno on here!
       | 
       | I've been a huge dance music fan/nerd ever since I was a teenager
       | and techno is my favourite genre, particularly the deeper and
       | more hypnotic varieties.
       | 
       | Check out Donato Dozzy's 2008 Labyrinth set for an idea of what I
       | mean, it blew my mind at the time (still does) and redefined my
       | musical tastes quite a lot:
       | https://soundcloud.com/user-602354628/sets/dozzy-labyrinth-2...
       | 
       | Would be cool to chat techno more with people from this site (and
       | further afield, but I guess I'm thinking the shared interest in
       | tech is another thing in common), I find sites like Reddit don't
       | really work for me for whatever reason... would there be any
       | interest in a Discord or whatever for techies who like techno?
       | (lol, sorry). Could be fun to share musical discoveries and maybe
       | lead to other interesting connections.
        
         | arrakeen wrote:
         | i've been listening to dozzy's "plays bee mask" constantly for
         | the last two weeks. really excellent
         | ambient/synth/drone/whatever
        
           | tomduncalf wrote:
           | Yep, wonderful album. Check out his album K for a slightly
           | more upbeat but similarish vibe, and also the Voices from the
           | Lake album.
           | 
           | Bee Mask's albums are fantastic too. Have been getting really
           | in to ambient lately
        
         | randomopining wrote:
         | Yeeeeeah dude. Anything in realm of Dozzy is awesome. Check out
         | Wata Igarashi for a polished spacey sound. I also like the
         | funky techno with detroit and hip hop vibes of the Zenker
         | Brothers.
         | 
         | Best techno party ever is No Way Back during Movement in
         | Detroit. Most likely featuring one of the above.
         | 
         | Of course I still like more semi-mainstream techno stuff, Ben
         | Klock and Dettmann. And then even more mainstream, I love
         | Prydz's polished big progressive and big tech sound.
        
           | tomduncalf wrote:
           | Ah yeah big fan of Wata. His remix of Blachington Mill is one
           | of my fave tracks for several years, his "infinite arpeggio"
           | thing is so unique: https://open.spotify.com/track/5MsKTeSpd6
           | Lehr899HOjdN?si=fu4...
           | 
           | Also check this wicked set he did recently in Japan, amazing
           | music and really nice visuals cut to Japanese nature:
           | https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tUva4XDGBm4
           | 
           | I'm in London so never had the chance to check out the US
           | techno scene, have been to some great nights in the U.K. and
           | Berlin though. Getting a bit old for regular clubbing now but
           | I'll still go out for the odd special night. I saw No Way Out
           | have a cool looking live stream coming up actually!
           | 
           | And yea, Dettmann, Klock etc are great at what they do, would
           | happily dance to them. And I was really into Pryda in 2007/8
           | kind of time so I'm with you there too!
        
             | randomopining wrote:
             | Yeahh that's an insane track. Spiraling arpeggios into
             | infinite, like you said.
             | 
             | Yeah that set is crazy. New track Cylinder into the crazy
             | unreleased 303 one is madness.
             | 
             | How old is too old? I've had a reprieve because of covid
             | and I wonder when I go back if I'll like it as much as I
             | did in 2019.
             | 
             | I've def matured in reducing excesses... And I think I'm
             | less of a chin scratching techno elitist.
             | 
             | What spots or events are best in the UK?
             | 
             | Still want to make it to Labyrinth one day too.
        
               | tomduncalf wrote:
               | I'm 36... still enjoy late nights but find it messes up
               | my sleep for days after even if I am fairly sensible with
               | alcohol etc., so I'm more selective about when I go out -
               | has to be worthwhile! Day parties I'm down for (tho they
               | have a way of turning into night parties lol)
               | 
               | In London, good venues are Corsica Studios, Pickle
               | Factory, The Cause, Fold... all pretty low key and
               | underground. There's good stuff in other cities too but
               | I'm not really familiar with it any more.
               | 
               | Yeah, Labyrinth is the dream!
        
               | SvenMarquardt wrote:
               | Get yourself over to the continent. If you start partying
               | at 4am Sun morning you can finish at 10pm Sun night and
               | be fresh Monday.
        
       | 11thEarlOfMar wrote:
       | Ok, how do we classify this?
       | 
       | (Wait for the narrator)
       | 
       | https://open.spotify.com/track/5O6MFTh1rd9PeN8XEn1yCS?si=jNp...
        
       | PicassoCTs wrote:
       | Also missing the techno performed with classic philarmonic
       | concerts:
       | 
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3wPbNf1jhzM&t=2632s
       | 
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3hS9qK_Z1IM
       | 
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NhGXn9Qo9HA
        
       | wolverine876 wrote:
       | Some thoughts from someone who was there, on the fringe of it:
       | 
       | Detroit: is a land of wondrous musical invention, just new trends
       | but whole new paradigms over and over, and it's never credited:
       | Motown, of course; Punk (Iggy Pop & the Stooges, MC5 - name
       | earlier punk!); Funkadelic (George Clinton et al); and Techno. At
       | their heart they are creative, artistic, non-commercial (Motown
       | being a big exception to the latter). Try to name other
       | communities that match it, and give Detroit some due.
       | 
       | Techno: I've heard it described (by someone who would know) as
       | the music of black middle class kids in Detroit. Think of what
       | that means: Think of the historical implications, for the next
       | generation after the civil rights era. Think of how rare that
       | image is - today - in our public sphere, 'black middle class
       | kids'. And from this perspective, to great disappointment, the
       | black musical genre that America embraced was hip-hop, which sold
       | itself as the stereotype many whites have of African-Americans:
       | Poverty, violence, crime, lack of education, acting out, etc.
       | That's what people associate with black kids - and that's what
       | they bought - not futuristic techno; everyone in the world knows
       | hip-hop is 'black' music; few outside techno know its origins. It
       | makes me angry to this day. Here's a bit of that history, from
       | the 313 (Detroit area code) techno mailing list:
       | 
       | http://music.hyperreal.org/lists/313/08.html
       | 
       | Through the 1990s, Juan Atkins, Derrick May, Kevin Saunderson and
       | the other techno pioneers, legends and stars elsewhere, were
       | unknown in Detroit beyond the small techno community. Every
       | summer in Hart Plaza downtown, Detroit hosts various weekend
       | festivals, such as a large country music festival. In 2000 a new
       | one was added to the schedule, the Detroit Electronic Music
       | Festival. I can't express the shock, the bewilderment, of local
       | Detroiters when a million people from around the world showed up
       | - to Detroit? For electronic music? Why??? The visitors knew more
       | than the locals. And I was there - my favorite musical memory -
       | for the moment Derrick May, long ignored in his hometown, at last
       | took to the turntables before a massive crowd _in Detroit_ :
       | 
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R4xqV9_7rf0
        
         | golemiprague wrote:
         | It is not what "poeple associate with black kids", it is what
         | it was and what it is, most black kids are not middle class.
         | The black community first and foremost were the one to adopt
         | hiphop as their "voice".
         | 
         | In general, all types of electronic music thrived in Europe
         | rather than in the US, house, techno, trans, even
         | dub/regeae/jungle etc. not necessarly just the black middle
         | class music.
        
       | fodmap wrote:
       | Juan Garcia Castillejo wrote in 1944 'La telegrafia rapida: el
       | triteclado y la musica electrica' (Fast telegraphy, trikeyboard,
       | and electric music). You can read the gist of it at
       | https://nathanjohnthompson.wordpress.com/2014/07/09/la-teleg...
       | 
       | Here's the book in Spanish
       | https://archive.org/details/latelegrafiarapida.eltritecladoy...
       | and this is a homage to his work in 2013
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFZk6WrbOKw
        
         | anthk wrote:
         | Gracias.
        
         | kristopolous wrote:
         | Check out the soviet Nikolai Voinov who worked with electronic
         | graphical sounds in the 1930s https://youtu.be/Mmejo9WL2gY
        
           | fodmap wrote:
           | Very interesting. Thanks for that link.
        
           | LargoLasskhyfv wrote:
           | You can do that today on some of your gadgets with
           | https://warmplace.ru/soft/ans/
           | 
           | ;-)
        
       | Krasnol wrote:
       | I loved the Gray back than. It was just right for me and for the
       | time back than. Something I realized at a "revival" party for it.
       | Growing up and out of time sucks some times ;)
        
         | graderjs wrote:
         | It was the late 90s. I was 16 or 17. I used to sneak out,
         | literally out the window and over the roof, to the fence, and
         | to the ground, after bed time and trek to the city, to go to
         | "61 Regent St". An "underground" club in Sydney. Techno all
         | night, strange new media generative video art projected on the
         | walls, people with glow sticks, UV lights, dreadlocks. A
         | "drinks counter" that also sold marijuana. Place was tiny,
         | always filled with cigarette smoke. Sort of like a hippy
         | culture vibe, but techno. Dumonde's Tomorrow. I was so tired
         | one night I fell asleep under the pool table. Somehow sleeping
         | even as the bass reverberated everything. Dancing until early,
         | then if I wanted more, walk over to the slightly more hardcore
         | "Icebox" in the Cross. Both places closed for many, many years.
        
       | dkobia wrote:
       | I love techno / house music. I've been unable to shake it since I
       | caught the bug many many years ago in Kenya. It came as a
       | pleasant surprise and shock to meet Carl Craig at thanksgiving
       | some years back. My wife neglected to mention he was her cousin
       | -- real Detroit House music royalty. They understand he's big
       | somehow but all that is lost because techno and house are not
       | considered "American" or "black" music for that matter. I've had
       | the pleasure of hanging out on stage with Carl watching him do
       | his thing which I could have never imagined happening.
        
       | disgu wrote:
       | That has got to be the worst scrolling behavior I've ever seen on
       | a website in my entire life.
        
         | busymom0 wrote:
         | If you are interested in reading it, here's archive:
         | 
         | https://archive.is/rk0DB
        
         | lifeformed wrote:
         | It actually gives me motion sickness.
        
         | dang wrote:
         | " _Please don 't complain about website formatting, back-button
         | breakage, and similar annoyances. They're too common to be
         | interesting. Exception: when the author is present. Then
         | friendly feedback might be helpful._"
         | 
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
        
         | pgt wrote:
         | I love techno and I can't wait to read this article, but I had
         | to stop and come back here just to say this site's scrolling
         | behaviour is driving me nuts.
         | 
         | If any designers are reading this, please avoid smooth
         | scrolling.
        
         | mbertschler wrote:
         | on a trackpad I tried to 2 finger pinch to zoom, instead it
         | took one finger as scroll input, zooming impossible
        
         | Thlom wrote:
         | Did they change it? Scrolls normally in latest Chrome on Win
         | 10?
        
           | PicassoCTs wrote:
           | Some things are ment to be brokken
        
           | k3liutZu wrote:
           | Also works fine in Safari, looks like regular scrolling.
        
         | mradmin wrote:
         | There's also some wacky code in the HTML. Check out the body
         | tag:                 <body class="post-template-default single
         | single-post postid-4483 single-format-standard bridge-
         | core-1.0.6  qode-title-hidden qode_grid_1200
         | footer_responsive_adv qode-content-sidebar-responsive
         | transparent_content qode-child-theme-ver-1.0.0 qode-theme-
         | ver-18.2 qode-theme-beatportal disabled_footer_bottom
         | qode_header_in_grid wpb-js-composer js-comp-ver-6.0.5
         | vc_responsive &quot;&gt;&lt;noscript&gt;&lt;iframe
         | src=&quot;https://www.googletagmanager.com/ns.html?id=GTM-
         | WVTMQP&amp;user%5BisLoggedIn%5D=0&amp;&quot;
         | height=&quot;0&quot; width=&quot;0&quot; style=&quot;display:no
         | ne;visibility:hidden&quot;&gt;&lt;/iframe&gt;&lt;/noscript&gt;&
         | lt;br style=&quot;display:none;"  >
         | 
         | If it's not clear, all that code is within the class attribute!
        
       | shivbhatt wrote:
       | Don`t mind but when i see this kind of title, i always think what
       | will new in post. When i check post i always disappoint with
       | useless information.
        
       | vehemenz wrote:
       | Hidden gem of a YouTube channel with hundreds of old-skool house,
       | dnb, and techno mix tapes:
       | 
       | https://www.youtube.com/c/MixtapeMagic/videos
        
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       (page generated 2021-04-29 23:02 UTC)