[HN Gopher] Cuomo Aides Spent Months Hiding Nursing Home Death Toll
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       Cuomo Aides Spent Months Hiding Nursing Home Death Toll
        
       Author : jbegley
       Score  : 224 points
       Date   : 2021-04-28 19:07 UTC (3 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.nytimes.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.nytimes.com)
        
       | rangoon626 wrote:
       | Cuomo needs to be tried for what he did.
        
         | atat7024 wrote:
         | Anything specifically?
        
           | throwaway292893 wrote:
           | 15,000 counts of manslaughter, plus obstruction of justice
           | for the cover up.
        
           | MattGaiser wrote:
           | Search #nuremburg2021 on Twitter. There is fairly robust
           | group of people who consider reactions to covid 19 crimes
           | against humanity and they are seeking trials against everyone
           | involved.
           | 
           | I personally know one of these people.
        
       | mynameishere wrote:
       | Well, they tried to get rid of him with the "sex scandal" stuff
       | and that didn't work. He was betting that the prestige press
       | wouldn't bring up the nursing home deaths--since other governors
       | have the same problem lurking--but he forced them to. They
       | really, really don't want him in 2024. So goes the conspiracy
       | thinking anyway.
        
         | 1cvmask wrote:
         | Perhaps this is explained by Hanlon's razor:
         | 
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanlon%27s_razor
        
           | ggamecrazy wrote:
           | In retrospect I would have done the same: Force the nursing
           | homes to accept their residents back if the residents have no
           | other options.
           | 
           | However, I would have throw in much more aid to the ones that
           | were forced. Cash + PPE + National Guard. If I couldn't
           | provide help, then I wouldn't force. That would mean that it
           | would be up to the hospitals to figure it out and find a home
           | for them or until they were covid-free.
           | 
           | Obviously I'm playing backseat Covid response governor here.
           | Hindsight is 20/20.
        
             | hajile wrote:
             | If you have to send residents back, you _must_ create COVID
             | and non-COVID facilities to ensure isolation. You also
             | shouldn 't send infected persons there just because you
             | can.
        
           | busterarm wrote:
           | Maybe the initial decision, but not the deliberate coverup
           | that occurred immediately after it and since then.
        
         | throwaway292893 wrote:
         | The nursing home scandal was known long before. The sex scandal
         | seemed to be used to cover that up. His top aide, Melissa
         | DeRosa, has admitted to covering up the nursing home deaths.
         | People have come out saying he was intimidating them. He is
         | under Federal investigation. What part of it is a conspiracy
         | theory?
         | 
         | https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/cuomo-top-aide-reportedly-...
         | 
         | https://www.cbsnews.com/news/cuomo-nursing-home-deaths-total...
         | 
         | He knowingly sent people with covid into nursing homes against
         | the will of the people running them, even though that's how the
         | first major outbreak happened in Washington state. He then
         | covered it all up by trying to attribute the deaths to
         | hospitals. Then stonewalled the Feds asking for information
         | about those deaths. His aide admitted to it. He should be in
         | jail. He killed at least 15,000 people as a direct result of
         | his orders.
         | 
         | I just hope they investigate the other 5 governors that sent
         | the people with covid back into nursing homes.
         | 
         | https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/five-governors-cuomo...
         | 
         | They should have all known. This is how it all started, it
         | seems deliberate. Cover-up or not, they are all either
         | dangerously incompetent or malicious.
        
           | dkarl wrote:
           | > The nursing home scandal was known long before. The sex
           | scandal seemed to be used to cover that up.
           | 
           | The opposite, I thought -- he seemed to be weathering the
           | nursing home scandal, and now the sex scandal seems to be
           | taking him down. Before his sexual behavior was publicized,
           | people were joking/not joking that Andrew Cuomo was the
           | poster child for our (Democrats') inability to hold anyone
           | accountable for anything as long as they seemed woke and
           | likable and said all the right things on cultural issues.
           | Then his sexual behavior hit the news, and it was like, wow,
           | is there anything metoo can't do? At least now Democrats
           | nationally want him gone, though it's always harder to get a
           | popular politician's own constituents to turn against him.
        
           | kbelder wrote:
           | While I despise Cuomo, I'm a little leary about condemning
           | politicians about their actions back in the early days of the
           | pandemic. Taking action is sometimes necessary even with
           | incomplete or bad information, and it will sometimes turn out
           | to have been the wrong decision. That's inevitable. It would
           | often be worse to have an executive that is paralyzed in fear
           | of making a decision that turns out to be wrong.
           | 
           | Now, the post-facto coverup, that doesn't deserve any benefit
           | of the doubt. That's just sleaze and corruption.
        
             | japostoles wrote:
             | It was always a bad decision, and we questioned it in
             | realtime.
             | 
             | Also, after the death toll rolled in they deleted the
             | executive order from the New York State website despite it
             | still being in effect.
             | 
             | There was a cover up from the moment the order was issued,
             | I'm not sure how this action was taken in good faith.
        
             | specialp wrote:
             | I am a New Yorker that had a relative die of COVID in a
             | nursing home last year. I could understand the decision at
             | first because they were literally constructing hospitals on
             | athletic fields at my local university to deal with the
             | packed hospitals. But own up to it and don't cover it up.
             | 
             | Regardless of your political persuasion what Cuomo did is
             | wrong by covering it up. We can't have 2 standards for
             | politicians based on if it is someone on your team.
        
             | nyczomg wrote:
             | Not just sleaze and corruption. This administration was
             | hiding data about a pandemic when we desperately needed
             | more information about how to fight the pandemic. That is
             | despicable and indefensible.
             | 
             | I can forgive bad decisions in a time of crisis. But what
             | they did was way beyond that.
        
             | babesh wrote:
             | Threatening to take medical licenses away for administering
             | vaccines to people who weren't eligible even if the vaccine
             | was going to be thrown away.... and then doing a 180 and
             | threatening to take away medical licenses if vaccines were
             | not administered.
             | 
             | Writing a book about his supposed epic handling of the
             | virus.
             | 
             | Still in office.
        
               | lainga wrote:
               | And he won an Emmy for it!
        
             | throwaway292893 wrote:
             | The early days of the pandemic the first outbreak was in a
             | nursing home in Washington.
             | 
             | That was when we were still counting the first hundred and
             | contact tracing.
             | 
             | The people running the homes dissented against it. He still
             | did it.
             | 
             | It doesn't take a genius to know you will infect elderly
             | people by sending a highly contagious disease into their
             | facility.
             | 
             | The cover up is beyond despicable, but the original action
             | is indefensible.
        
               | ggamecrazy wrote:
               | Where could those people going back to nursing home go?
               | I'm assuming that if another facility or their family
               | could have taken them they would have opted for that.
               | Reminder that likely these people needed 24/7 skilled
               | nursing help.
        
               | throwaway292893 wrote:
               | 45 other states found ways to safely handle this
               | scenario.
               | 
               | Either properly supply your nursing homes with PPE or
               | bring the nursing home staff to the hospitals.
        
               | heavyset_go wrote:
               | > _Either properly supply your nursing homes with PPE or
               | bring the nursing home staff to the hospitals._
               | 
               | The PPE that was acutely in short supply and unavailable
               | at the beginning of the pandemic? Even doctors and nurses
               | didn't have adequate PPE back then, and many of them got
               | sick and died because of it.
        
               | throwaway292893 wrote:
               | > and many of them got sick and died because of it.
               | 
               | Source of people dying due to lack of PPE?
               | 
               | As I understand it, there was always a low supply, not no
               | supply.
               | 
               | Other states managed to supply their nursing homes just
               | fine.
               | 
               | Seems like rationalization. Cuomo never came out and said
               | this was caused by lack of PPE.
               | 
               | Unless you have a source that they weren't able to equip
               | their nursing homes due to supply issues you are
               | assuming.
        
               | plussed_reader wrote:
               | And if there aren't enough bodies to meet that
               | requirement, then what?
        
               | mattmanser wrote:
               | UK did exactly the same thing.
               | 
               | Everyone was panicking that the epidemic would grow
               | exponentially and the hospitals would get over-run. Hence
               | freeing up beds, and building a bunch of eventually
               | pointless overflow hospitals.
               | 
               | A lot of modelling was claiming that's exactly what would
               | happen, e.g. Imperial College London claiming millions of
               | deaths, while the actual infection curves never hit those
               | numbers.
               | 
               | In hindsight, that's not how the virus works, it seems to
               | infect clusters and then drops and eventually levels out,
               | jumps to a new clusters does the same thing, and on.
        
               | WalterGR wrote:
               | > Imperial College London claiming millions of deaths,
               | while the actual infection curves never hit those
               | numbers.
               | 
               |  _Because we took action to avoid that._
               | 
               | I truly don't understand why people keep repeating such
               | dezinformatsiya.
        
               | timr wrote:
               | The Imperial College report included projections _if all
               | recommended NPIs were implemented_. That includes
               | lockdowns, masks, social distancing, and so on.
               | 
               | Those projections were still wildly off the mark. There
               | is no way to look at their projections and take them
               | seriously as modelers. They were simply wrong. They made
               | bad parameter assumptions, didn't question their results
               | or cross-validate, and ran with the scariest projections
               | of their models.
        
               | [deleted]
        
           | ggamecrazy wrote:
           | > He knowingly sent people with covid into nursing homes
           | against the will of the people running them...
           | 
           | Don't mean to be aggressive but where else would you like for
           | the people whose domicile is in the nursing home to go? These
           | are not people in independent living facilities, they likely
           | need 24/7 skilled care. Allowing the people to go back to the
           | nursing home (aka their home) seemed like the right thing to
           | do at the time. It unfortunately didn't play out so well and
           | I am glad I wasn't the one making that decision.
           | 
           | I think it was a tough decision. The nursing homes could have
           | contained the spread but clearly were incapable of doing so.
           | 
           | > Then stonewalled the Feds asking for information about
           | those deaths.
           | 
           | No excuse for that, just lay it all out. The stonewalling was
           | intentional and possibly illegal, he should answer for that.
        
             | throwaway292893 wrote:
             | There was a hospital ship he could have used, it only had
             | 179 patients over 3 weeks. There were hospitals made that
             | never reached full capacity. Hell, setup a tent. You're
             | saying the only option was to infect and kill 15,000
             | people?
        
               | jmisavage wrote:
               | The hospital ships weren't for covid patients, but for
               | others who couldn't get a bed due to the hospitals being
               | over capacity. The military specifically was testing
               | everyone coming to make sure they didn't have covid
               | because it can spread way faster in the confines of a
               | ship.
        
               | throwaway292893 wrote:
               | The point is those ships were under capacity the whole
               | time.
               | 
               | Send more non-covid patients to them, keep elderly
               | patients in the hospitals. New York never reached full
               | capacity overall.
               | 
               | If you MUST send covid patients to nursing homes, make
               | sure they are prepared with PPE.
               | 
               | Other states did so, Cuomo and the 5 other governors
               | should have known to do so. We already had outbreaks in a
               | nursing home that everyone was aware of.
        
               | fcbrooklyn wrote:
               | That was true initially, but they changed tack about a
               | week later. The ship reduced capacity from 1000 beds to
               | 500 specifically so that they could accomodate covid
               | patients, because there weren't enough other patients to
               | matter. In addition, the Javits center field hospital
               | never reached more than about 5% of its available
               | capacity. Meanwhile the nursing home down the street from
               | me was begging the city to let them send their covid
               | positive residents to to the ship, or to the javits, were
               | told that those were only for hospital overflow, and they
               | should keep the residents in place. more than 60 of them
               | died, the highest death toll of any nursing home in the
               | state.
        
               | ggamecrazy wrote:
               | Hospitals did in fact need the beds (nursing home beds
               | >>> hospital beds). Additionally they are ill-equipped
               | for the skilled help these people needed. People suffer
               | from dementia/alzheimers and hospitals only option is to
               | handcuff people to their beds (which is inhumane long-
               | term).
               | 
               | I don't want to play politics and I do think more could
               | have been done here). Like: quickly granting nursing
               | homes aid in terms of PPE + cash + national guard help.
               | I'm just trying to change your mind that the situation
               | was much more nuanced that the NYTimes is advocating for.
        
           | encryptluks2 wrote:
           | Like Newsom who gave the biggest non-apology I've seen about
           | getting caught violating his own COVID-19 stay-at-home
           | orders, and then said the recall against him was being
           | orchestrated by white supremacist antisemites (nazis) which
           | is over 1.5 million people in his own state... I'm sure Cuomo
           | will find something similar to say.
        
             | clairity wrote:
             | i'm ready to impeach newsom, but polling seems to suggests
             | it's unlikely. i'd happily sign a petition to impeach LA
             | mayor garcetti as well, if any were organized to do so. the
             | pandemic response here was beyond stupidly awful--a
             | combination of what-if based fearmongering and a frenzy of
             | unadulterated free (i.e., debt-fueled) federal money-
             | grubbing.
             | 
             | the whole colored tier system was a farcical distraction
             | from real mitigations like _quarantining nursing homes and
             | their staff_ who 'd volunteer for 24-hour hero pay and
             | 2-week on-off cycles (long enough to recuperate and re-
             | quarantine), and asking people to distance indoors around
             | familiars, which is where most transmission happens, rather
             | than around strangers or out on the street where your silly
             | mask-wearing does less than nothing. 90% of angelenos, by
             | my anecdotal count, still wear masks outdoors, as if it
             | were a talisman against impending death.
             | 
             | despite unceasing media howling, our infection rates held
             | relatively steady for a year, until recently, when
             | vaccinations finally started to have a real effect on those
             | rates. none of that (double-)mask-wearing, excessive hand-
             | sanitizing, overly restrictive retail-closing, and
             | incessant surface-disinfecting propounded by the
             | state/county/city did anything to mitigate spread, only
             | modest distancing indoors and restricted interfamilial
             | contact had much mitigative effect (and the latter could
             | have been handled much less invasively and damagingly).
             | 
             | i'm decidedly unamused by the stupidity of it all and ready
             | for new leadership of any stripe other than democrat or
             | republican.
        
           | melling wrote:
           | I'm under the impression that people were supposed to be
           | allowed to return to their nursing homes, from where they
           | left.
           | 
           | After they left the hospital they needed somewhere to go.
           | Otherwise, they would be homeless.
           | 
           | If nursing homes couldn't safely take recovering patients
           | back then people were in danger before these people left for
           | the hospital.
           | 
           | I also imagine there were COVID patients in the homes who
           | didn't need to go to a hospital
        
           | thehappypm wrote:
           | Because when it's your guy getting attacked, it's a
           | conspiracy. When it's the other guy, it's righteous.
        
           | atat7024 wrote:
           | Nobody will ever be prosecuted for this, and that's less
           | people taking what politicians see as limited funds.
        
           | mrandish wrote:
           | > They should have all known.
           | 
           | Before Washington state we had the clear data from the
           | elderly homes in Bergamo Italy where they made the exact same
           | mistake over a month earlier with catastrophic results.
           | Before that we knew from the Wuhan data that CV19 is a highly
           | asymmetric threat and it was critical to protect elderly and
           | immuno-compromised.
           | 
           | The history is still to be written but the U.S. policy choice
           | to go with broad lockdowns of everyone instead of the
           | "focused protection" plan may go down as the worst public
           | health error of modern times. Since they were hit hard and
           | first, Hubei Province and Northern Italy at least have the
           | excuse of no priors. By the time NY got hit any serious
           | analyst knew and many were recommending circling the wagons
           | around the vulnerable.
           | 
           | I have no idea if fault lies with Cuomo personally or someone
           | he delegated this to, but _someone_ in NY seriously fucked
           | up. Hell, in Bergamo prosecutors filed charges against some
           | city /regional administrators for negligent manslaughter (or
           | similar).
        
             | pyronik19 wrote:
             | Who did it right? Ron DeSantis did. He did the focused
             | protection.
        
               | mrandish wrote:
               | Yes, Florida focused their resources on protecting their
               | elderly population and didn't implement broad lockdowns
               | of people who weren't sick or at-risk. Their per-capita
               | results are better than NY, CA and many other states.
               | 
               | Sweden also deserves credit for getting the public health
               | policy right. They had the right plan but have admitted
               | they could have done better in some of the early
               | execution phase around protecting elder facilities. 7
        
         | mhh__ wrote:
         | Who is "they"?
        
       | comodore_ wrote:
       | the first reports on this already appeared in august 2020, but
       | somehow all mainstream outlets weren't too interested. They still
       | weren't interested in October when the DOJ sent an inquiry about
       | nursing homes or in January when the NY AG issued a report
       | finding New York under counted deaths of nursing home and long-
       | term care facility residents.
       | 
       | Meanwhile, CNN put him on the air, to be heralded as a great and
       | inspiring leader by his own brother, a CNN mouth piece, that got
       | state funded special treatment when he had covid. Now CNN simply
       | refuses to report on it.
       | 
       | The media landscape is beyond broken in this country.
        
         | russianbandit wrote:
         | Was Trump right about CNN...?
        
         | merpnderp wrote:
         | Don't forget Cuomo making the rounds in April telling people to
         | ignore Trump's scare mongering, that it was perfectly safe to
         | take the subways and catch a show on broadway.
        
         | kasey_junk wrote:
         | NPR covered the AG finding quite a bit
         | 
         | https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2021/0...
         | 
         | As did The NY Times:
         | 
         | https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/28/nyregion/nursing-home-dea...
        
           | [deleted]
        
         | Tycho wrote:
         | Have you noticed the Dem-media-academia bloc seem to lionise
         | some of the shiftiest people when they should really know
         | better
         | 
         | - Avenatti
         | 
         | - Cuomo
         | 
         | - Lincoln Project
         | 
         | Not too confident about Fauci and Schiff.
        
           | skybrian wrote:
           | I remember reading quite a bit about Cuomo's mistakes last
           | summer in liberal media, but apparently it didn't change the
           | dominant narrative. Here's one article:
           | 
           | Democrats gave a hero's welcome to New York Governor Andrew
           | Cuomo despite his mistake-filled early response to the
           | coronavirus pandemic. https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/ar
           | chive/2020/08/cuomo-n...
        
         | nyczomg wrote:
         | They gave him a fucking Emmy in November:
         | 
         | https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2020/1...
         | 
         | And he published a fucking book in October:
         | https://www.amazon.com/American-Crisis-Leadership-COVID-19-P...
         | 
         | Broken doesn't even begin to describe it....
        
           | comodore_ wrote:
           | yes, unreal.
           | 
           | Also all this took place when he received a multi million
           | dollar advance for his book "American Crisis: Leadership
           | Lessons from the COVID-19 Pandemic", and remember this crazy
           | thing https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/14/arts/design/cuomo-
           | covid-p... how is any of this real?!?!
        
             | [deleted]
        
             | lotsofpulp wrote:
             | I assume anyone left watching 24 hour news channels is not
             | very adept at critical thinking.
        
               | hpcjoe wrote:
               | Yeah ... I hear otherwise intelligent friends (folks with
               | PhDs, MDs, etc.) effectively parroting crap you would
               | hear on their favorite news channel. You can tell what
               | they watch by listening to what they say.
               | 
               | I think the "smarter" one is, the more gullible they are.
               | As someone with a PhD, I try very hard not to be gullible
               | ... I can't say I always succeed. But I am highly
               | skeptical of everything I hear/read. That skepticism
               | helps.
        
           | hpcjoe wrote:
           | I don't see anyone talking about taking that emmy back. Or
           | canceling him.
           | 
           | He has like 7 credible assault victims accusing him. And the
           | "media" protects him.
           | 
           | Riddle me that. His ass should have been out on the sidewalk
           | a long time ago.
           | 
           | The "media" is complicit.
        
         | nimish wrote:
         | This was known in March-April, when he rammed through a bill to
         | give himself emergency powers and one that indemnified nursing
         | home operators -- his donor base.
        
         | SllX wrote:
         | Before the summer actually, not August.
         | 
         | A large swath of the media was busy at the time trying to put
         | Cuomo on a pedestal as a kind of counter-Trump.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | TMWNN wrote:
         | >the first reports on this already appeared in august 2020, but
         | somehow all mainstream outlets weren't too interested.
         | 
         | Because it would have diminished the relentless message
         | emanating from almost everywhere that Trump, and Trump alone,
         | was singlehandedly responsible for every single COVID19 death
         | in the US.
        
         | hpcjoe wrote:
         | > The media landscape is beyond broken in this country.
         | 
         | It has been for a while. Most of the major "news" media
         | organizations are anything but news. That people actually
         | believe what they hear, and then _act_ upon this ... often ...
         | misinformation ... is horrifying. That they have ardent
         | supporters who insist that X really is news while Y is not ...
         | well ... no.
         | 
         | If you want news in the US about the US, listen to BBC America.
         | It is the least biased, narrative embracing, propaganda
         | pushing, site around. There may be others that are workable as
         | news sites. But none from the US.
        
           | imglorp wrote:
           | We used to pay trained, trusted experts to conduct interviews
           | and discover primary sources; their organization would have
           | independent fact checkers to improve veracity; and the
           | product of their findings was delivered daily to your home.
           | 
           | Corporate media hates that system.
        
           | ewmiller wrote:
           | It's probably true that media companies tend to report more
           | objectively on the affairs of other countries, because the
           | country they're based in will exert more political influence
           | over them.
           | 
           | The BBC is incredibly biased in terms of British affairs, or
           | so I've heard, but it stands to reason that they'd be more
           | willing to be objective about what's going on in America.
        
         | temp8964 wrote:
         | Also, sexual harassment accusations...
        
         | adolph wrote:
         | > The media landscape is beyond broken in this country
         | 
         | Your lack of cynicism is admirable. An alternative hypothesis
         | is that it is working as designed; the treatment of the NY
         | governor is a feature not a bug.
        
       | exabrial wrote:
       | Don't worry, media was complicit too.... because you know, orange
       | man bad because reasons.
        
       | LatteLazy wrote:
       | How do NYs numbers compare to states other states, notably the
       | southern ones that resisted lockdowns?
        
         | rossdavidh wrote:
         | Well, NY's numbers don't look good compared to any state except
         | New Jersey's. I think it's probably fair to say that they had a
         | harder job than, say, Vermont or Maine, though, given their
         | population density. Latitude and urban density seem to be
         | better predictors of covid-19 mortality than anything related
         | to human actions (except vaccination rates).
        
         | heavyset_go wrote:
         | Notably, at the very beginning of the pandemic before
         | lockdowns, COVID ravaged nursing and long-term care homes in
         | the PNW and then in the northeast.
        
           | foo_barrio wrote:
           | At the very beginning it was winter in the Northeast and
           | treatment protocols were being development. Is it fair to
           | even compare the virus that came into NY during Jan to a
           | state where it came after 6 months of study, data and summer
           | weather?
        
           | Teknoman117 wrote:
           | Yup.
           | 
           | My grandfather, along with many of the other patients, died
           | in one of these places from COVID in Massachusetts last May.
           | 
           | He was in a physical rehab following heart surgery to fix
           | damage from a botched pacemaker installation. The family
           | spent most of January -> March getting the equipment and
           | reworking his house so he could be cared for at home, but he
           | caught COVID before it was ready. He was in critical
           | condition for 2 months until he finally passed. The real kick
           | in the gut that he was considered "COVID free" for the last
           | two weeks but the damage to his lungs was too great.
           | 
           | My grandmother was able to be with him when he died, holding
           | his hand in a hazmat suit...
        
             | AnimalMuppet wrote:
             | I'm so sorry for you and your family.
             | 
             | I don't think I've ever read an HN post that made me cry
             | like that.
        
         | chasd00 wrote:
         | I don't know what data backs this site but you can start here
         | and do some comparisons
         | 
         | http://91-divoc.com/pages/covid-visualization/
        
         | verdverm wrote:
         | Deaths per capita:
         | https://www.statista.com/statistics/1109011/coronavirus-covi...
         | 
         | Cases per capita:
         | https://www.statista.com/statistics/1109004/coronavirus-covi...
         | 
         | Attribution to lockdown or not is insufficient to determine
         | these numbers. Mask adherence, population size, and climate are
         | also important.
         | 
         | Top 10 deaths per capita are dominated by New England and
         | Southern states
        
           | lixtra wrote:
           | You should also take into account the age structure of the
           | states. The median of Florida is 5 years higher than
           | California's.
           | 
           | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_terr.
           | ..
        
             | verdverm wrote:
             | and yet the differ very little in their outcomes (156 v 162
             | in D/C) as compared to NY at 267
        
         | rallison wrote:
         | New York ends up being a problematic comparison point, because
         | they were at zero restrictions until mid March 2020, so most of
         | the infections through near the end of March were effectively a
         | "no restrictions" test case. I.e. people testing positive late
         | March were the highly symptomatic cases (because of limited
         | test availability), so these were generally people infected 10+
         | days before, which means they were before any restrictions.
         | Restrictions on mass gatherings happened on March 12th, but the
         | stay-at-home order didn't happen until March 22nd.
         | 
         | What I'm getting at is that, if you want to use New York as a
         | test comparison for loose vs tight restrictions, you're going
         | to have a much deeper analysis to do, and a large portion of
         | the deaths in New York were effectively resulting from a period
         | when there were zero to minimal restrictions.
        
           | chrismcb wrote:
           | How is this problematic? I thought California was the first
           | to lockdown and the stay at home order was issued on the
           | 19th.
        
             | rallison wrote:
             | I'm not sure what California has to do with the point I was
             | making?
             | 
             | Anyway, it's problematic because around half of the total
             | recorded deaths for New York state, for the entire pandemic
             | up to now, likely resulted from infections that happened
             | during the no/minimal restrictions period in March of 2020.
             | Presumably the original poster wanted a "strong
             | restrictions" vs "light restrictions" comparison w.r.t. to
             | deaths. And that's fine; it's just that New York is going
             | to give you a poor starting point for that comparison
             | unless you dive deeper.
        
         | floxy wrote:
         | https://www.statista.com/statistics/1109011/coronavirus-covi...
        
       | Fellshard wrote:
       | At this point, do a little introspection. Did you hear about this
       | last year? From who? Did you find it credible? Why or why not? Is
       | there any way you can grow in your consumption of information
       | based on your findings?
        
         | hpcjoe wrote:
         | When people scoff at the source, like when people sniff "but
         | that's on faux news", the report is unlikely to be accepted at
         | face value. This is a major problem, in that real information
         | surfaces on both "political sides" (they aren't really both
         | sides, but that's a discussion for another day) and people
         | discount items that conflict with the particular narrative they
         | believe in.
         | 
         | You can see that here. In the downvotes.
        
         | throwaway292893 wrote:
         | We heard about it from the New York AG. The coverup was
         | confirmed by his top aide, Melissa DeRosa.
        
           | brown9-2 wrote:
           | It's not "Cuomo's AG", in NY the attorney general is elected
           | by voters.
        
             | throwaway292893 wrote:
             | Correct, updated. Main point still stands.
        
           | Fellshard wrote:
           | I'm quite intentionally trying to frame my post in a neutral
           | way to avoid partisan assumptions/squabbles.
        
             | throwaway292893 wrote:
             | The people I named are Democrats, I don't see this as a
             | partisan thing. It's a humanity thing. I'm simply answering
             | your questions of who blew the whistle and how we found out
             | about it.
        
               | Fellshard wrote:
               | Introspection. I'm asking each individual to evaluate
               | their own information intake valve. There are objective
               | sources, the question is how and when we accept or
               | dismiss them.
        
               | jjoonathan wrote:
               | Right back atcha -- because while there are plenty of
               | covid screwups to go around, someone who thinks this one
               | got suppressed probably has an information diet that
               | disproportionately focused attention on this screw up in
               | order to shift attention away from their own screw up,
               | which was orders of magnitude larger.
        
               | octopoc wrote:
               | FTA:
               | 
               | > The effort by Gov. Andrew M. Cuomo's office to obscure
               | the pandemic death toll in New York nursing homes was far
               | greater than previously known, with aides repeatedly
               | overruling state health officials over a span of at least
               | five months, according to interviews and newly unearthed
               | documents.
               | 
               | Sounds like this one got suppressed according to the
               | article.
               | 
               | > someone who thinks this one got suppressed probably has
               | an information diet that disproportionately focused
               | attention on this screw up in order to shift attention
               | away from their own screw up, which was orders of
               | magnitude larger.
               | 
               | This is whataboutism. The article is about Cuomo's bad
               | response to COVID regarding nursing homes.
        
               | jjoonathan wrote:
               | > Sounds like this one got suppressed
               | 
               | With regard to obscuring the death toll, I agree, and
               | Cuomo needs to be dealt with.
               | 
               | With regard to prioritizing this story against it's
               | competitor, however, I think my information diet got the
               | mix about right, which is to say in proportion to impact.
               | 
               | > This is whataboutism.
               | 
               | If we were just talking about Cuomo, sure -- but you
               | brought up information diets and suppression, which
               | absolutely brings into scope the nonstop 24/7 Republican
               | efforts to use the Cuomo story as whataboutism.
        
             | danans wrote:
             | > Did you hear about this last year? From who? Did you find
             | it credible? Why or why not?
             | 
             | Your questions above propose the idea of bias in the
             | information delivery and reception, which inherently maps
             | to political partisanship. What other sort of bias could
             | your questions possibly evoke?
             | 
             | Cuomo was exposed and has been condemned largely by
             | officials within his own party, and also broadly by the
             | media, whether left, right, or center.
        
               | commandlinefan wrote:
               | I think what OP is getting at is that it's suspicious
               | that this became a "mainstream" news story _this year_
               | when it was known last year.
        
               | throwaway0a5e wrote:
               | Nobody cared what the body count was until the body count
               | turned into a house seat.
               | 
               | The really sick thing as that this sudden influx of give-
               | a-shits is sending the message that "the party will back
               | you if you kill people so long as you don't lose a house
               | seat in the process" which is not a great message to be
               | sending.
        
               | macinjosh wrote:
               | > Cuomo was exposed and has been condemned largely by
               | officials within his own party, and also broadly by the
               | media, whether left, right, or center.
               | 
               | Correct, but for the nursing home residents and their
               | families that too little too late. I first read about
               | this last summer as the nursing home rules began to take
               | effect. At the time the party and media were too busy
               | holding Cuomo up as an anti-Trumpian figure. They gave
               | him an Emmy and cute nicknames while this happened. It is
               | all just a little too much for me.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | qqqwerty wrote:
         | Same question can be asked about the undercounts in Florida?
         | 
         | [1] https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2021/03/florida-
         | covid-19-dea...
        
         | mmcgaha wrote:
         | NPR has been talking about this since January or so. Not
         | exactly a right wing propaganda outlet.
         | 
         | Howie Carr was talking about it around the same period as NPR.
         | For folks outside of New England, he is a right wing radio host
         | but he puts a spin on actual news rather than just making up
         | garbage.
         | 
         | What credible source was talking about this before January?
        
           | _-david-_ wrote:
           | >What credible source was talking about this before January?
           | 
           | It is probably easier to ask which major news sources were
           | not talking about this prior to January.
           | 
           | You can easily find articles posted prior to January from The
           | Association Press, Fox News, CNN, Daily Wire, NY Post, Daily
           | Mail, Daily Caller, Washington Times, The Federalist, USA
           | Today, etc. Many of those sites had articles back in May.
        
             | mmcgaha wrote:
             | You are confusing two related but different stories. Back
             | then the talk was about the fact that he sent patients back
             | into nursing homes.
             | 
             | It was only later that we discovered that he actively
             | fudged the numbers by not counting nursing home patients
             | that died in hospitals.
        
               | _-david-_ wrote:
               | I am not confusing them. There were absolutely articles
               | last year about this (though maybe not as far back as May
               | for this specifically).
               | 
               | Here is an article from the Washington Post back in
               | August 2020
               | 
               | > New York's coronavirus death toll in nursing homes,
               | already among the highest in the nation, could actually
               | be a significant undercount. Unlike every other state
               | with major outbreaks, New York only counts residents who
               | died on nursing home property and not those who were
               | transported to hospitals and died there.
               | 
               | > That statistic could add thousands to the state's
               | official care home death toll of just over 6,600. But so
               | far the administration of Democratic Gov. Andrew Cuomo
               | has refused to divulge the number, leading to speculation
               | the state is manipulating the figures to make it appear
               | it is doing better than other states and to make a tragic
               | situation less dire.
               | 
               | https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/new-yorks-true-
               | nursing...
        
           | chitowneats wrote:
           | Right wing media was talking about this last summer. It seems
           | the propaganda was in fact coming from those in the Cuomo
           | administration trying to deflect blame.
           | 
           | I don't remember exactly where I heard it first, but I
           | googled and found this US News & World Report story about it
           | from July 14, 2020:
           | 
           | https://www.usnews.com/news/health-
           | news/articles/2020-07-14/...
        
             | belltaco wrote:
             | Right wing media has been saying the Covid is just a flu
             | and there was nothing to worry about, and in fact it's the
             | best time to take a flight.
             | 
             | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAh4uS4f78o
             | 
             | One has to be crazy to believe anything from the right wing
             | media after things like that which are just a tip of the
             | iceberg of lies they regularly spread. They did it to
             | themselves.
        
               | hpcjoe wrote:
               | Thinking back to who recommended people ignore the
               | presidents concerns[2] at the time and go mingle in
               | public[1].
               | 
               | I know it doesn't jive with the narrative. Neither of
               | these two could be even remotely construed to be "right
               | wing".
               | 
               | [1] https://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/nancy-pelosi-
               | visits-sa...
               | 
               | [2] https://www.npr.org/sections/health-
               | shots/2020/01/31/8016865...
        
               | chitowneats wrote:
               | This attitude of yours is why you were on the wrong side
               | of a very important news story during an election year.
        
         | cheaprentalyeti wrote:
         | Yes, I heard about it in the first quarter of last year. I
         | heard about it on news sites on the web. I found it credible.
         | 
         | This whole reportage stinks of "We Have Always Been At War With
         | Eastasia" to me at the moment.
        
         | MattGaiser wrote:
         | I saw it on Politifact in May/June I believe as he initially
         | blamed the Trump administration and that was found to be false.
        
         | Mathnerd314 wrote:
         | Looking at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for
         | _deletio..., it only became a notable scandal mid-February.
         | 
         | As far as information consumption goes, though, I think if
         | anything I've consumed too much. I don't live in NY and the
         | stuff happening there has no relevance to me.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | [deleted]
        
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