[HN Gopher] The Botanist Who Defied Stalin
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The Botanist Who Defied Stalin
Author : dnetesn
Score : 130 points
Date : 2021-04-27 09:56 UTC (1 days ago)
(HTM) web link (nautil.us)
(TXT) w3m dump (nautil.us)
| interestica wrote:
| The French short documentary 'Le savant, l'imposteur et Staline'
| is available free to Canadians: https://ici.tou.tv/le-savant-l-
| imposteur-et-staline-comment-... (FR captions only) Well made
| with lots of appropriate imagery.
|
| And an english version is available to rent/buy:
| https://vimeo.com/ondemand/scientist/392774148
| activatedgeek wrote:
| Vavilov was such an extraordinary individual. While he was
| imprisoned in 1940 for defying Stalin-era leader Trofim Lysenko
| for his Mendelian beliefs, his collaborators protected the then
| largest seed bank in the world during the Siege of Lenningrad [1]
| by Nazi Germany. Most of those "protectors" died, and Vavilov
| died of starvation in prison - the same thing he was so obsessed
| of solving for everyone.
|
| "Where Our Food Comes From: Retracing Nikolay Vavilov's Quest to
| End" [2] is the canonical read on this topic!
|
| [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Leningrad [2]:
| https://www.librarything.com/work/7565437
| throwaway0a5e wrote:
| Starvation was a Big Deal(TM) in pre-ww2 Russia. Many of the
| best and brightest were drawn toward working on agricultural
| problems in their niche. Mikhail Kalashnikov got interested in
| mechanics and engineering because he wanted to help design
| better farm equipment and improve yields.
| BurningFrog wrote:
| Starvation is always a big deal under Communism.
| [deleted]
| Conlectus wrote:
| Commenting in no way on any such effects, droughts and
| famines have been a fairly regular feature of Russian
| history.
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Droughts_and_famines_in_Russi
| a...
| [deleted]
| gullywhumper wrote:
| For those that might not recognize the name, Mikhail
| Kalashnikov developed the AK-47 - the assault rifle.
| baud147258 wrote:
| he was successful, but his invention ended reaping a very
| different type of harvest
| kikokikokiko wrote:
| Guns don't kill people, it's the bullets that do it.
| devtul wrote:
| It's a team effort
| fuf_998 wrote:
| He was. Only he was imprisoned for political reasons of being
| anti-bolshevik, you can even read this in the quote from his
| sentence in this cold-warish piece of writing in OP. This is
| biggest scientific myth i know - that soviets/marxism/etc deny
| science, because they prosecuted Vavilov for it. Like genetics
| back then was as it is now (search eugenics), and scientific
| debate about nature vs nurture was settled, and Lysenko was
| just some boy and didn't get applause in NYC conference on
| agrobiology. But I'm glad at least in research frontiers people
| do revisit Lysenko legacy nowadays, in the the light of
| epigenetic research. For common people it's just another
| neccesary illusion.
| enkid wrote:
| Sorry, the Soviet Union explicitly advocated for science
| based on ideology instead of the other way around under
| Stalin. Wikipedia has numerous examples of this [0]. And no,
| one person getting applause at one conference in the US does
| not make a scientific hypothesis valid. Your also either
| fundamentally misunderstanding what the current research on
| epigenetics says or what Lysenko was advocating. Lysenko
| claimed to do things well beyond anything current studies of
| epigenetics would allow, and the SU went all in on these
| claims to disastrous effects. (Because they preferred
| Lamarckism instead of Darwinism for purely ideological
| reasons.)
|
| [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suppressed_research_in_the_
| Sov...
| adrian_b wrote:
| The Soviet denial of science actually went much more beyond
| relatively minor details like the prosecution of Vavilov.
|
| I have read a large number of school manuals from the
| sixties, both from the Soviet Union and from a few of the
| East European countries dominated by the Soviet Union.
|
| All these school manuals were extremely ridiculous, because
| they always included some pseudo-historical sections where
| for every useful scientific or technical discovery or
| invention, or even for every innovation in sports, it was
| claimed that there was some unknown Russian scientist, worker
| or even peasant, who had discovered or invented that, much
| earlier than their well-known discoverers or inventors from
| West-European countries.
|
| Additionally, all the biology manuals included a pseudo-
| historical section containing criticism against the "Mendelo-
| Morganism", where Gregor Mendel, Thomas Morgan and the other
| people with well-known contributions to modern biology and
| genetics were presented as a gang of crooks who belonged
| somehow to some kind of international conspiracy that
| promoted some kind of pseudo-science for some unspecified but
| certainly evil purposes.
|
| On the contrary, Lysenko and a few other Russian geneticists
| were presented as some luminaries who are the only source of
| truth about biology.
|
| Reading any of those Russian school manuals, which tried to
| poison the minds of many generations of students in Russia
| and in the countries controlled by them, is enough to make
| you understand the relationship between the Soviet Union (and
| communists in general) and the true sciences.
| repeek wrote:
| A song by The Decemberists, "When the War Came"[1], covers this
| topic. One of my favorites!
|
| [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJHOiQ2uniU
| gxqoz wrote:
| Huh. I've listened to this song many times without really
| internalizing the lyrics.
| theguppydream wrote:
| I enjoyed 99% Invisible's podcast on the seed vault, which I had
| no idea about prior to listening
|
| https://99percentinvisible.org/episode/the-vault/
| aeturnum wrote:
| I came here to share the Anthroposcene Reviewed episode on it
| (2nd half - starts around 12:30 in)
|
| https://www.wnycstudios.org/podcasts/anthropocene-reviewed/e...
| fnord77 wrote:
| https://www.damninteresting.com/a-blight-on-soviet-science/
| dang wrote:
| Discussed a few weeks ago:
|
| _A Blight on Soviet Science_ -
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26513415 - March 2021 (40
| comments)
| sorokod wrote:
| _" and of "twenty-one employees of noblesse origin, eight from
| the priesthood, twelve honorary citizens [code for tsarists], and
| ten from the merchant class."_
|
| For those not familiar with this part of Russian history, the
| relevant concept here is "class enemy" - an individual who is an
| enemy of the people by virtue of being of certain social class.
| hpcjoe wrote:
| The echos that we see today of similar class warfare, of
| similar narratives supplanting real science, and replacing it
| with activism ... This is the direction we are heading toward.
| As the joke goes, history doesn't repeat itself. It does rhyme
| however.
|
| You can see echos of Lysenkoism where a narrative pushed hard
| by activists, that has numerous problems from a scientific
| point of view, is rammed down peoples throats. When people can
| be "deplatformed" or "canceled" for having the temerity to
| express different opinions than the narrative allows for ...
| that is, in many ways, modern day Lysenkoism.
|
| It took Russia many decades to recover from this. As it will
| us, if we allow this to continue.
| mszcz wrote:
| So in Russia you can express different views? There's
| _freedom after_ freedom of speech there now?
| B1FF_PSUVM wrote:
| > relevant concept here is "class enemy"
|
| In our enlightened times, this has been replaced with other
| categories which make automatic allies - "if you're X, you must
| do Y."
|
| (But still a "traitor" if you disobey the diktat.)
| redis_mlc wrote:
| FYI: If you shake your head at Lysenko in the article, note that
| similar things are happening today with Marxists and critical
| race theory and science/math in the US.
| jarenmf wrote:
| A great video about the The Vavilov-Lysenko Contention
| https://youtu.be/eDteTc9aEKQ
| swebs wrote:
| This is how we got the term Lysenkoism, which is
|
| >any deliberate distortion of scientific facts or theories for
| purposes that are deemed politically, religiously or socially
| desirable
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lysenkoism
| TotallyOkNGood wrote:
| It's unfortunate that this was the fate of some important science
| in the USSR.
|
| The story of Vygotsky is similar. His psychological/pedagogical
| is still pretty influential to this day but he was largely
| rejected in part because his work challenged the legacy of
| Pavlov.
|
| Shame that this was the state that was supposed to be rigorously
| scientific.
| B1FF_PSUVM wrote:
| The problem is that it was an article of marxist faith that
| "class origin" was a guarantee of correctness - the proletariat
| was supposed to automatically lead the way to the future.
|
| Communist parties all over the world were keen on demonstrating
| that their central committees had a "proletarian majority",
| with a sprinkling of helpful intellectuals, which might include
| the secretary general ...
| lionhearted wrote:
| Oh man, I'm happy to see this here -- I've been slowly working my
| way through various science and engineering done in the Soviet
| Union since there was some incredible work done that's very
| poorly known in the West.
|
| Vavilov is definitely a first-class scientist who seemed to have
| an incredible personality. In some alternative better timeline,
| Vavilov would probably be as well-known and had inspired as many
| people as, say, Feynman. Alas.
|
| Anyway, while we're on the topic of Soviet scientists, the whole
| silver fox domestication research program is infinitely
| fascinating --
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domesticated_silver_fox
|
| Highly highly recommended.
|
| Edit: Soviet pharmacology also very interesting -- and even more
| surprising it hasn't been studied and imported since, like,
| humans are humans and it works. Probably an unfortunate secondary
| effect of how trials/licensing/patenting work. Not a bad starting
| point: https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/08/16/an-iron-curtain-has-
| de...
| blackoil wrote:
| I see, sacrifice by common men/women, without any special
| training, against certain death for a non personal cause is one
| of the unifying positive trait of humanity across time/space.
| mudita wrote:
| Like suicide bombers?
| sorokod wrote:
| You could argue that the average suicide bomber expects a
| personal reward in the afterlife.
| karpierz wrote:
| You could also argue that altruism isn't real, and doing
| altruistic acts is rewarding for the individual, but that
| seems a little reductionist.
| sorokod wrote:
| I could, but altruism is too fantastic to bother.
| 2rsf wrote:
| the "non personal cause" could be tricky though, I see that for
| example with religious people doing things for non personal
| causes- they are actually gaining from it but not money or
| fame, could be "points" in the afterlife or happiness
| cardanome wrote:
| Vavilov was prosecuted for political reasons not for his stance
| on genetics per se.
|
| Also painting Lysenko as a pseudoscientific snake oil seller is a
| bit reductionist. He did have some high level ideas that have
| been proven right by modern science in the field of epigenetics.
| He just greatly overestimated the importance of environment
| factors and his idea did not prove practical for large scale
| farming. He did so at a time when genetics was still far away
| from the agriculture revolution of modern day and did not yet
| offer much in terms of practical solutions.
|
| Did ideological reasons and certain structural deficiencies exist
| that explain the popularity of Lysenkoism? Sure. Though these
| problems exist in capitalist countries as well. Especially the
| social sciences are riddled with it.
|
| By the way, when someone tried to put a pseudo-Marxist spin on
| linguistics, claiming that all languages would have a common
| origin, it was Stalin himself who put a stop to it, arguing for
| more a honest and open debate.
|
| > It is generally recognized that no science can develop and
| flourish without a battle of opinions, without freedom of
| criticism. [1]
|
| [1] J.V. Stalin
| https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/stalin/works/1950...
| worik wrote:
| And before we condem Lysenko too thoroghly we should look at
| ourselves.
|
| In my country whole regions, once food baskets, are in danger
| of being retired because of the "...the agriculture revolution
| of modern day..." Build-ups of toxic chemicals in the soil from
| synthetic fertilisers are building up to levels where milk from
| cows grazed on the grass is not fit for human consumption
|
| Lysenko was a unfortunate fool, a man of his time. But we are
| not much better for all our "science". Yes he got genetics
| wrong, but the "green revolution" that ignored soil structure
| and microbial life has gotten things just as wrong
| int_19h wrote:
| Lysenko and his followers presented intentionally rigged
| evidence to support their theories. If that's not
| pseudoscience, what is?
|
| As far as Marr and his "Japhetic theory" of linguistics - sure,
| Stalin took him down... 15 years after Marr died. And until
| then, it was the officially blessed interpretation, and
| criticizing it could get one accused of "bourgeois nationalism"
| quite easily.
| arximboldi wrote:
| There is a very good episode about him in the last Cosmos season.
| lr1970 wrote:
| Nikolai Vavilov's younger brother Sergei [0] was a famous
| physicist who together with Pavel Cherenkov discovered Vavilov-
| Cherenkov radiation [1]. By the time Nobel committee awared
| Cherenkov the Nobel price Sergei Vavilov already died (of natural
| causes). Got me thinking about genetic predisposition to science
| among Vavilov brothers.
|
| [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sergey_Ivanovich_Vavilov
|
| [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cherenkov_radiation
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