[HN Gopher] I forgot about print style sheets (2016)
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       I forgot about print style sheets (2016)
        
       Author : pcr910303
       Score  : 130 points
       Date   : 2021-04-27 15:10 UTC (7 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.matuzo.at)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.matuzo.at)
        
       | qwerty456127 wrote:
       | I once had to write an app which would fill typographically-
       | printed forms fed into a printer by printing on precisely
       | specified locations. Despite being more of a desktop than a web
       | developer the most straightforward and flexible way I found was
       | generating HTML and print-oriented CSS.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | elbac wrote:
       | Browser consistency for print styles is like building websites in
       | the late 90s. Chrome, Firefox, Safari all handle margins, page
       | breaks differently. Not to mention setting page/paper size...
        
       | TotallyOkNGood wrote:
       | I recently had a client ask me to turn product list pages into
       | printable checklists. It was a really useful dive back in to
       | print style sheets, something I'd learned about in school and
       | then forgotten because I hadn't used them in 8 years.
        
       | drawkbox wrote:
       | Print styles are great for grabbing a PDF output of the page that
       | is cleaner than the site usually. If you have lots of content to
       | read and want an archive that isn't online, isn't a messy
       | html/package, printing to PDF output is a decent choice.
        
       | capitainenemo wrote:
       | Minor note. The page has a comment dated November 2019 stating
       | that the Firefox approach he documents was removed. In current
       | stable Firefox you can toggle print styling on a page using the
       | Inspector tab of the developer tools and clicking on the icon
       | that looks like sheets of paper in the upper right of the styles
       | column.
        
       | EricE wrote:
       | While it would be great if more sites took this to heart, in the
       | meantime printfriendlly.com has a great javascript button that
       | has a prominent place on my bookmarks bar.
       | 
       | https://www.printfriendly.com
        
       | jswrenn wrote:
       | I think this title needs a '(2016)' appended to it.
       | 
       | Between print stylesheets and paged media, CSS has become one of
       | my favorite ways to typeset documents documents where the layout
       | of individual pages matters greatly. (LaTeX remains my prefered
       | choice for documents where text flows between pages.)
       | 
       | I recently wrote up my experience typesetting my resume in
       | HTML/CSS: https://jack.wrenn.fyi/blog/pdf-resume-from-html/
        
         | dpwm wrote:
         | Thanks for posting this. I was actually just today looking for
         | a solutions to render a website as a PDF, and didn't get as far
         | as puppeteer - which is probably too heavy a dependency for my
         | use case, but is still nice to know about.
         | 
         | Does anyone know of a print-oriented web-browser that
         | understands CSS? It seems like the kind of thing that would be
         | useful to many.
        
           | Lammy wrote:
           | https://www.pagedjs.org/documentation/02-getting-started-
           | wit...
        
           | math-dev wrote:
           | Check this out ;)
           | 
           | https://pdf.math.dev
           | 
           | HN Post: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26691626
        
             | dpwm wrote:
             | Thanks for writing that up! I had no idea about paged.js
             | and it's pretty close to what I was looking for.
        
       | qntmfred wrote:
       | I tried to print an online worksheet provided by a vendor the
       | other day and it was (not surprisingly) an unusable mess.
       | Sometimes paper is a great technology and it's a shame we don't
       | optimize for that UX as much anymore.
        
         | Wistar wrote:
         | It is very important for teaching materials that intended to
         | used as handouts or worksheets for kids. My SO is an elementary
         | school teacher (Kindergarten) and I often am asked to fix
         | "print-to-pdf" from HTML messes from a web site using Acrobat
         | Pro DC. Sometimes it is easier to just fire up Illustrator and
         | remake the worksheet(s). Other site just work perfectly but
         | they are rare.
        
           | sumtechguy wrote:
           | My wife prints _lots_ of things out (usually some sort of
           | long doc description recipes, walkthroughs, coupons, large
           | bills, etc). She likes to have a  'hardcopy'. Whatever no big
           | deal (I personally want as little paper as possible). Except
           | for progressive sites. That one took me a bit to figure out
           | what was going on. Basically you have to scroll the whole
           | page to make it print everything as stuff loads in _only_ if
           | it is scrolled into view. Also print preview is your buddy
           | here. If it does something weird do not print it.
        
       | city41 wrote:
       | I recently added print styles to a site and found adding them for
       | Chrome(ium) and Firefox was a breeze, and Safari was an absolute
       | nightmare. I never did get it printing correctly in Safari, but
       | good enough to be somewhat passable. I find this has been my
       | experience in many aspects of web development as of late...
        
         | ultrarunner wrote:
         | Part of an application I develop generates printed sheets for
         | inventory. Both Safari and Chrome ignore simple things like
         | repeated table headers and line breaks. I seem to remember
         | Chrome made stranger decisions than Safari, but neither were
         | entirely usable. Firefox is the only browser that gets that
         | mostly right. Unfortunately Firefox needs other workarounds and
         | no one in my organization wants to use it.
         | 
         | This has been my experience for years: print stylesheets are
         | just not a major focus for browser vendors. Because I can't
         | count on stylesheets working correctly, it's not worth
         | investing development time. The more recent parts of the
         | aforementioned application generate PDFs, which is probably
         | what the print stylesheets will eventually move to.
        
           | capitainenemo wrote:
           | It's almost utterly irrelevant at this point in time, but IE
           | was also good at printing tables. I was completely unable to
           | get Chrome to not mangle thead/tfoot and content spanning
           | pages. I ended up doing a horrible hack where I guesstimated
           | the amount of content and split up a 10 page table into
           | separate tables each well before the end of a page of print,
           | just to support Chrome.
        
       | nkrisc wrote:
       | I worked at car shopping related site. We had just done the
       | yearly replatforming to Angular, then the rereplatforming to make
       | it server side rendered, and then the complaints started. It
       | wasn't many, but I read our feedback report every single day and
       | it was a few a day which is actually pretty notable. I knew from
       | user testing and interviews that when shopping for used cars
       | people would print out a few of the details pages and look at
       | them side by side on paper. They were typically older but isn't
       | like it was only old people who did this. Younger people who were
       | more price conscious did as well since they _really_ took their
       | time. But after all the fancy new frameworks the page printed out
       | on something like 10 sheets of paper when it would have fit on
       | one. Most of them were blank. I managed to get a week of a dev 's
       | time to hack something barely usable together, but even getting
       | that took some pleading.
       | 
       | Next time you design a site that gets any use by a wide, tech
       | illiterate audience, print it out and see how it looks. I
       | guarantee you someone is printing it out and then cursing you.
        
         | hinkley wrote:
         | In particular I think there's a high barrier to entry for
         | sharing computer content among a large group of people - in
         | person. Even projectors have their own layers of pain, from
         | connectivity, to availability, to image quality. And then
         | there's the quality of the presenter, who often was hired based
         | on their merits in their field of expertise, not on their
         | presenting skills. And let's be honest: if they could do all of
         | this stuff well, they probably wouldn't be working for some of
         | my customers. And then there's the quality of the audience.
         | Back-seat driving can end up distracting everyone from the
         | point of the meeting. I know I've been guilty of that myself.
         | Not to mention all of the people who don't have 20/20 vision
         | and can't or won't do anything about it.
         | 
         | The most expedient thing sometimes is to print out a few copies
         | so everyone can absorb the information at their own pace.
        
         | slver wrote:
         | You implied printing is tech illiterate. I've had to print web
         | content for many reasons, including sharing it with strangers
         | whose email/phone/messenger I don't have. Or a group of people
         | whose details I do have, but I don't necessarily want to fill
         | their inbox with this content.
         | 
         | You also can't highlight interesting parts or scribble notes on
         | a web bookmark. You can print it to a PDF or paste in Word and
         | annotate that. But aside from it being much clumsier and
         | messier as an approach... it still needs decent print styles to
         | print to a PDF.
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | ChrisArchitect wrote:
       | another old post (who cares?) that was originally on medium and
       | now is on the author's domain blah blah
       | 
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13005105
        
       | corny wrote:
       | People who do not have internet or a computer at home very often
       | print pages from the internet at their local library.
        
       | michaelbuckbee wrote:
       | I once worked on an interesting instructional web app that let
       | you create a series of short video clips for instructions (think
       | like assembling Ikea furniture).
       | 
       | On the web site there were videos placed next to each block of
       | instructions, but that obviously doesn't work for print so we
       | used print style sheets to swap out the video embed with a QR
       | Code that pointed to the video.
       | 
       | Users could then work through the instructions on paper (their
       | preferred interaction method) and just pop into a video if they
       | wanted clarification or needed help.
        
         | EricE wrote:
         | That is an awesome user experience and a great idea. I believe
         | I am going to advocate we do the same!
        
         | Jiocus wrote:
         | There's a use-case for QR triggered augmented reality overlay.
         | Scan the code, insert your original video back into the printed
         | document.
         | 
         | Practical? Maybe not without a HoloLens or Apples upcoming
         | device.
        
           | afavour wrote:
           | What's the actual utility there, though? It makes the video
           | less portable than if you were just watching in your phone.
           | And the position on the page isn't exactly important.
        
             | [deleted]
        
           | pvorb wrote:
           | But it's more accessible to just use the website directly in
           | this case, right? Why would I print it just to read it
           | through a Hololens?
        
           | duskwuff wrote:
           | I'm pretty sure that's doable with current technology.
           | Detecting a QR code and a larger rectangle surrounding it is
           | easy; overlaying a video over that rectangle is only slightly
           | harder.
           | 
           | What I'm not so sure of is the utility. Users would probably
           | rather watch a video on their phone screen than watching a
           | video pretending to be on a piece of paper through their
           | phone screen.
        
             | snypher wrote:
             | You could overlay the instructions onto the Ikea chair leg
             | directly and show me where the bolts go in etc.
        
       | dddddaviddddd wrote:
       | I recently got feedback about an article on my website as
       | annotated scans of the printed article. The reader was about
       | eighty-years old. A little bit of work on my print style-sheet
       | went a long way toward improving usability.
        
       | aasasd wrote:
       | Well people on HN worship PDF, thinking it's necessary for
       | printing and you can't print HTML--so it seems not only the
       | author forgot about CSS for printing.
       | 
       | Anything with a pretense of research gets published in PDF even
       | on sites having nothing to do with academic publishing--while the
       | content is two columns of text and intermittent meh-quality
       | illustrations. Such need for PDF, wow. The explanation given is
       | that people may want to read that from paper, but I asked my
       | friends in actual academia, and they say everyone reads from
       | screen anyway. Well I guess everyone in 'research' either has 14"
       | tablets or is able to read 5-point text all day, otherwise they'd
       | all have crippling RSI from scrolling.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | ipython wrote:
       | "Printing" means more than copies of webpages on dead trees.
       | "Printing" means submitting invoices on online forms, it means
       | sharing paywalled content with coworkers, and it means archiving
       | web pages in a portable way.
       | 
       | I'm glad that this was posted, because more times than not I have
       | to resort to cut and paste - or if I'm lucky just cropping out
       | the two pages of content out of the 10+ pages of cruft when
       | saving a web page to pdf.
        
       | danielstocks wrote:
       | I use a print stylesheet for my HTML CV/resume since I from time
       | to time need to "print as pdf" and send around by email.
       | 
       | I also find my self emailing invoices/receipts a lot and it's
       | pretty annoying when there's no way to print/save as pdf from a
       | vendor without getting the entire page layout
        
       | tvanantwerp wrote:
       | Print stylesheets are quite important if you're serving older
       | demographics. I manage a site that frequently has content printed
       | out and passed around, so the print styles _must_ work. It has
       | the added bonus that I never hear complaints about printing, nor
       | requests to format content into a cleaner-looking PDF document.
        
       | drummer wrote:
       | A good Print style sheet is essential if you want your website
       | and articles to be easily archived and saved and/or distributed
       | offline. Especially if it's content that gets censored somewhere
       | on this planet.
        
       ___________________________________________________________________
       (page generated 2021-04-27 23:01 UTC)