[HN Gopher] A practical guide to reducing loneliness
___________________________________________________________________
A practical guide to reducing loneliness
Author : bhalina
Score : 206 points
Date : 2021-04-26 14:54 UTC (8 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (burgesspowell.medium.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (burgesspowell.medium.com)
| arkaic wrote:
| "Stop Ordering Stuff Off Amazon"
|
| I do this a lot: going grocery shopping almost every day even for
| one or two items during periods when I'm basically homebound.
| Just the act of being around other people helps tremendously my
| mood by the time I get back home.
| neonate wrote:
| https://archive.md/UJQq2
| mattgreenrocks wrote:
| Semi-related: I suspect a big draw of social media is that it
| resembles actual human communication while also conferring a lot
| more control to all parties.
|
| Vulnerability is not required. Communication is stripped of
| almost all of its context, and is often asynchronous. There is
| little expectation of any sort of real commitment. People are
| easily muted, unfollowed, and blocked.
|
| In sanitizing away the messiness of real relationships, we're
| left with an empty shell that puts us more in control and yet
| also more lonely. It would seem that we cannot simply pick and
| choose which aspects of relationships we want, nor can we relate
| to others at the scale that social media enables us to.
| danenania wrote:
| I think of social media as "filler". It's similar to how empty
| calories trick our bodies into feeling full despite not
| providing any real nutrition.
| read_if_gay_ wrote:
| Twitch is similar I find. It's basically substitute human
| interaction. But I don't think it's all "empty calories" - it
| does really help against loneliness in my experience. Of
| course the real thing is going to be better for you, but
| obviously that's not always available.
| munificent wrote:
| Porn : Sex :: Social media : Community
|
| A fraction of the risk for an even smaller fraction of the
| reward.
| sascha_sl wrote:
| > People are easily muted, unfollowed, and blocked.
|
| But also, social media creates perfect conditions for such
| things to become necessary. Some people are especially easy to
| dehumanize. People say things to me on social media they
| wouldn't dare say to my face with irritating regularity.
| mattgreenrocks wrote:
| Yeah. I wouldn't advocate to remove those features due to the
| sheer amount of toxicity present on social media.
|
| However, their existence reinforces the issues I brought up:
| it's too easy to cut people out because they said something
| slightly wrong, they reinforce filter bubbles, and they make
| it easy to see relationships formed via social media as
| easily replaced.
| bhalina wrote:
| 100% agree on lack of vulnerability. I am hoping that COVID-19
| showed us that a social life on social media isn't a social
| life at all.
| mattgreenrocks wrote:
| Vulnerability can be seen as a lack of control. And I really
| believe our generation is terrible at it. We say we want
| authenticity, but I think we want authenticity from people
| like ourselves.
|
| Also, social media encourages a very performative style of
| vulnerability: "let me write at length about a small quirk,"
| ignoring the fact that anxiety basically runs their life to
| such an extent that they need Twitter as a social outlet.
| lisper wrote:
| Oh yes. I used to be tremendously socially awkward and
| insecure, and that led to a lot of loneliness. Then about 15
| years ago I decided to make a concerted effort to try to
| understand points of view with which I vehemently disagree. So
| I, being an atheist, started hanging out with religious people.
| Today I run a meetup group dedicated to this. We have
| everything from atheists to young-earth creationists. We
| recently picked up a couple of Muslims, and next week we're
| getting our first Mormon. It has been tremendously rewarding
| because I can now get along with just about everyone (except
| Trump supporters -- still working on that one).
|
| I'm not saying that you should necessarily follow this
| particular model, but getting out of your social comfort zone,
| while not easy, can pay big dividends over time.
| nicbou wrote:
| I've been there. I have moved cities a few times, and also spent
| long periods on the road. I'm also rather introverted, and at
| times I'm not sure if I'd even call it social anxiety.
| Nonetheless, I made it work. Here are some random, actually
| usable tips:
|
| * Put an activity between you and strangers. It's easier to meet
| people when there's something to bind you together and fill the
| awkward silences. I've done a few: urban exploration, board
| games, bicycle rides, sports, classes etc. They all work fine.
|
| * There are many networks that help you socialise: erasmus
| activities, hobby clubs, meetups, etc. They work well, especially
| if you are an active participant in them.
|
| * Look for informal groups. I'm part of a few telegram groups
| centred around organizing activities. I found most of them
| through my local subreddit. They're easier to participate in than
| most clubs.
|
| * Platonic relationships can also falter due to lack chemistry.
| You didn't say anything wrong; it's just a mismatch.
|
| * It takes time. You'll go through a lot of false starts before
| you have a solid network of friends. That's true for most expats
| I have met.
|
| * Don't hesitate to invite people for drinks. It's a great way to
| bridge the gap between acquaintance and friend.
| atum47 wrote:
| At a very young age I realized waking makes me happy. I know a
| lot of other exercises that burns fat more efficient, so I spent
| a lot of time trying to come up with something that justify a 2
| hours walk. Eventually I stop trying to justify it. I just go for
| a walk listening to music. It may not be the best exercise for
| the body, but it does wonders for the mind.
| throwaway823882 wrote:
| > A Practical Guide to Reducing Loneliness Right Now: 11 awkward,
| life-affirming ways to connect with others.
|
| The most practical way to reduce loneliness is _not_ to connect
| with others. Become content living alone. Later you can connect
| to people when it 's not a _need_. But you should understand what
| 's driving the need, and come up with coping mechanisms.
|
| For example, say you really want to show someone a cool picture
| you just took. Would you still take it if you weren't going to
| show it to anyone else? If yes, then consider when you will look
| at it again, tuck it away, and go on with your day. If no, then
| don't take it.
|
| Don't let your needs control how you live your life, or your
| emotions.
| thrownawatsfdf wrote:
| > Put Down Your Damn Phone
|
| > Stop Ordering Stuff Off Amazon
|
| ok boomer tier advice
|
| edit: GALATIANS 4:16
| coldtea wrote:
| Yeah, because ordering off Amazon and being hooked to your
| phone is so modern and 2021...
| antibuddy wrote:
| I mean I kind of understand what he is saying (altho in an
| inappropriate way). It is likely for your own good to
| minimize screentime. However most people are still using
| their phone when bored. So you're either annoying people
| "glued to their screen" or you are the only one without doing
| it which yields you not much.
|
| It's a bit boring, but I think both points are valid. If you
| are not looking up you probably miss the opportunity, but
| opportunities are still very slim.
| guerrilla wrote:
| This is pretty superficial and obvious stuff... and no mention of
| empathy and vulnerability.
| plandis wrote:
| Maybe I'm crazy but if you're really lonely I don't know how
| planning an event nobody will show up to because you have nobody
| to invite helps.
|
| That just seems like bad advice. Or even if you do have people to
| invite if you're not super close it's likely nobody will show up,
| or at least that's been my experience.
| poletopole wrote:
| I visit the elderly in a local old folks home where my grandma
| lived and listen to their stories each month. At least I'll be
| popular with the ladies when it's my turn to go.
| [deleted]
| hotdogaaron wrote:
| Paywall
| napolux wrote:
| https://archive.is/UJQq2
| ahxul wrote:
| You can use medium hacked chrome extension to bypass the
| paywall.
| baxuz wrote:
| Or just block cookies on the domain itself. Then again, there
| are a lot of Medium blogs on other domains.
| hardwaregeek wrote:
| An important realization to have is that all of the fun events in
| your life, all of the dinner parties and hikes and trivia nights,
| all of them had to be planned by somebody. And at some point, you
| need to start planning your own events. Yes, planning events
| sucks. You need to corral people, sync up schedules, negotiate
| different likes/dislikes. But you gotta do it if you want to see
| people. I have friends who don't plan events and don't actively
| reach out. Frankly I'm a lot less close with them because to see
| them, I have to actively reach out and remember to invite them.
|
| Learning to meet new people is a great skill too because it means
| you're not stuck with friends who you don't like. I used to be
| friends with people who I didn't particularly like. But I was
| afraid to lose them because I didn't have a lot of friends. When
| you learn to make friends, you realize that it's not worth
| keeping people around whose presence you don't enjoy. You can cut
| them off and make new friends.
| blagie wrote:
| And I get miserable at dinner parties.
|
| What I want is a platform where I can randomly chat with people
| who have common interests. Think Omegle, but without 95% of the
| userbase being teenage boys who, for some reason, think it's a
| good way to meet women and get laid.
|
| Think of hallways conversations at conferences. I like
| conferences -- including well-run virtual ones -- and I'd like
| to be able to drop in on them anytime.
|
| I like my coworkers, including former ones. Think of the
| watercooler at work.
|
| When I want to chill, I sign on, and I get connected to a
| random someone, but a random someone who has something
| interesting to talk about.
|
| I wouldn't even mind being able to designate a few people I
| want to hook up with, in the intellectual sense. If we happen
| to sign on around the same time, we'll chat.
|
| I'd build it, but I'm busy.
| dublinben wrote:
| Dinner parties aren't the only kind of gathering you can plan
| to socialize with people you know, they're just a common
| format.
|
| You can meet a friend for coffee just to talk and catch up.
| You could even just schedule a phone call, so you don't even
| have to be physically together. Many people will play online
| multiplayer games together to have an excuse to talk with
| friends.
| nicbou wrote:
| I find it easier to plan for myself, then invite people.
| Otherwise I feel like I spend my life waiting for others to
| make up their mind.
|
| Over time, you have different people for different activities:
| the athletes, the stoners, the foodies, the geeks, the gamers
| and so on. It becomes a lot easier to plan.
| [deleted]
| helios_invictus wrote:
| I would also like to add, to be positive, and affirming. Tell
| other that you enjoyed the time you spent with them. Cheer them
| on in activities, even strangers!
| ahnberg wrote:
| Kindness goes the longest way, for sure!
| stakkur wrote:
| Here's my practical, psychology-based guide to reducing
| loneliness:
|
| 1. Find ways to help other people.
|
| 2. Help them.
|
| 3. Do it again.
|
| Reducing loneliness is not about 'having friends', it's about
| making efforts to participate in the larger group--and the
| primary way to begin doing that is by helping other people.
|
| To simplify: step outside yourself to be less by yourself.
| watwut wrote:
| You can be constantly helping and lonely at the same time.
| Plenty of caregivers and volunteers ends up like that.
| tremoloser wrote:
| I feel like a lot of the advice on overcoming loneliness puts all
| of the onus on the individual to make friends through talking to
| people and joining groups etc. and yes, obviously you won't
| overcome loneliness through inaction, but I really wish there was
| more talk about how social structures are a major component to
| the ease with which we make friends, and how we could potentially
| redesign social structures to facilitate that.
|
| for instance, the reason why it's easier to make friends in
| college is literally because college is set up for lots of
| serendipity and rubbing elbows in ways that post-college isn't.
| are there fun experiments we could try in order to design for
| organic interaction outside of an institution like a school or
| workplace? I've thought a little bit about this but it would be
| fun to have larger-scale convos about it.
| whall6 wrote:
| > if online friendships were working for you, would you be
| reading this article?
|
| Ah man got me there
| spaetzleesser wrote:
| This is the typical advice by extroverts: "just go out and have
| fun . If I can do it why can't you do it?". Most lonely people
| know already what to do in theory but for whatever reason they
| can't pull it off. That's certainly the story of my life. I know
| what I should do but I can't execute it correctly. I mess up
| small talk all the time and for some reason never get better. It
| seems some of my social circuits haven't been wired correctly and
| are introducing errors.
|
| Advice giving is a dangerous thing if you haven't experienced the
| problem. I don't have eating problems so for me it's really easy
| not to eat that donut or the bucket of ice cream but I have
| learned and accepted that for some overweight people it's an
| almost insurmountable problem. I can't really relate but I have
| learned enough over the years to stay away from giving ignorant
| or condescending advice.
| [deleted]
| hardwaregeek wrote:
| This is a little left-field, but have you considered therapy?
| One underrated benefit of therapy is that it can help you
| analyze social situations and build the necessary skills to be
| more social. Therapists are professionals at talking to people
| and building a rapport after all.
| nonbirithm wrote:
| Therapists are in extremely short supply right now. I
| recently got a wait-list for four months where I live.
|
| The intervening period of time reminds me that I'm supposed
| to be in therapy, that I might _need_ therapy, but am instead
| unable to see anyone. That makes my day-to-day life feel
| wrong, moreso than if I had never considered it as an option.
| spaetzleesser wrote:
| I have done therapy and also CBT. Part of it was in a group
| setting. It was pretty successful for some in the group but
| for others like me it did nothing. I have come more and more
| to the conclusion that some people are naturally not good at
| math and others aren't good in social situations. I am sure
| there are therapists who could help me do better but finding
| therapists and working with them is by itself a very energy
| draining and exhausting process. If I had infinite money and
| time it may be easier but repeatedly investing a lot of
| trust, time, energy and money into a therapist that doesn't
| work out is exhausting and depressing.
|
| Over the years I have found a way to live my life in an OK
| manner. There are some things in life that aren't accessible
| to me but there are plenty of other things I can experience
| that are rewarding too. I am lucky that my social anxiety and
| autistic traits aren't extreme and I have enough intelligence
| to understand things. Other people have it way worse.
| golemiprague wrote:
| Very true, knowing what to do is very different to bringing
| oneself to do it and dieting is a very good example. How many
| times therapists can actually change eating habits? From what
| I know the rates are low, similiar to any other coaching
| schemes of neutritionist or whoever is in the business of
| making people thin.
| anand-bala wrote:
| I suffer from severe depression in general and social anxiety
| around more than a handful of people, and have talked to
| therapists regarding this. One huge benefit of therapy is
| that I was quite quickly able to answer the question of
| __why__ I feel the way I do, especially around new people I
| meet. But it is a whole another thing to actually being able
| to "fix" it. The way I think about it is that I know what the
| problem is _in theory_, but have no idea how to come up with
| a _practical_ fix for it.
|
| When I was less depressed, I was able to join a local D&D
| group, go for bar trivia nights, etc. but as I became more
| depressed/anxious/stressed (coz of personal and professional
| situations), it became harder to push myself to become
| sociable and not get anxious around crowds.
|
| So I think the main point that the parent comment is trying
| to say is that people need to recognize that problems that
| may seem to have simple and straightforward "solutions" (like
| "have you considered therapy") are significantly harder for
| some individuals purely due to other mental health issues.
|
| I am not trying to fault you, but it is a thing I see in a
| lot of my friends/peers/relatives is that it gets harder to
| understand how different mental health issues affect
| different people in incredibly different ways.
| Leparamour wrote:
| >This is a little left-field, but have you considered
| therapy?
|
| Your advice (as well-meant as it may be) is exactly as
| helpful as the extrovert, mentioned by the parent, who gives
| the advice to "just have more fun". It's not a lack of
| knowing what to do. It's a profound lack of "activation
| energy".
| grae_QED wrote:
| Completely the opposite. It's the difference between a non-
| medical doctor diagnosing someones medical condition and
| telling them to go see a real doctor. Sometimes people
| don't know when to go see a doctor and need some help
| knowing when they should go. Their advice was completely
| appropriate given the situation.
| spaetzleesser wrote:
| The advice "see a therapist " is often valid but by
| itself pretty clueless. If you ever have dealt with
| therapists you know that a lot of them aren't very good.
| And finding one you click with can be very exhausting and
| expensive expensive. I have done this for a few years and
| it was one of the most depressing things I have done in
| my life.
| [deleted]
| Zvez wrote:
| tldr if you need social interaction you need to go out and do
| social interactions
|
| Anyway for me the only thing that sort of works is group sport
| sessions. I swim and go to group trainings twice a week. It
| doesn't get me any real friends, but I get people to talk to, we
| have chat and everything. This is the only time I don't feel
| lonely atm. Going out to some advernture-like activities will be
| even better - camping, biking, trail walking. But you need to
| find group of people to go out with. It is easier to do if you
| work in some big company - there probably already some groups
| like this. I did positive experience with coworkers, but sadly it
| didn't last.
| Tade0 wrote:
| I feel like there should be separate sets of advice for people in
| their 20s, 30s, 40s etc.
|
| Anyway, I've met quite a few very lonely people (seems
| contradictory, but loneliness doesn't necessarily mean someone
| isn't going out at all) and a the few things that did work for
| them - at least temporarily - were:
|
| -Getting a roommate, or moving to a shared apartment. There's
| nothing weird about doing this in your 30s anymore - housing
| hasn't been affordable for a while now. Doesn't mean they'll be
| your friends, but at least your social skills won't deteriorate
| any further.
|
| -Volunteering. Be it an animal shelter or an open kitchen for the
| less fortunate. It's so much easier to connect with people if you
| have a common goal and there's always work to do at such places.
|
| -Gaming - controversial, but certain games lend themselves to
| creating a community.
| em-bee wrote:
| on gaming: one of the local MUDs where i played has frequent
| real-life gettogethers for an afternoon, dinner of even out of
| the city for a weekend.
|
| another gaming related activity is boardgames. check if your
| city has a boardgame meetup. if not, start one.
|
| also hobbies
| ahnberg wrote:
| A lot of my meaningful contacts and relationship building has
| been because I didn't put down the phone. Being an introvert in a
| crazy extrovert world is insanely draining.
|
| Social media, digital communication and so forth has surely saved
| a huge part of my life. It has opened doors, allowed me to
| connect and establish friendships with people all over the world.
| It allows me to keep in touch with remote friends and close ones
| alike. All in all summing up to the feeling that I am less
| lonely.
|
| Excluding Corona time this also means that I have people to
| actually meet when I want to go out. So it is not a replacement
| for "real life" meeting with people. It is an augmentation.
|
| Each to their own; but I personally am somewhat tired of the
| constant norm of bashing on "digital" and phone and so forth.
| FinanceAnon wrote:
| Very superficial advice. I don't see how small-talk with
| strangers can fix loneliness long term.
| rozab wrote:
| Anecdotally, people in solitary confinement become desperate
| for even the most mundane of social interactions. This implies
| there is some psychological need for them.
| KittenInABox wrote:
| I feel that getting into the habit of small-talk can long-term
| reduce loneliness (not fix it necessarily) because the human
| brain is wired to feel some benefit when interacting with other
| humans or even being in the presence of other humans. That's
| why, eg. even though writing is a fairly solitary action,
| writers are often stereotyped as constantly being in ambiently
| social places like bars and coffee shops. You may genuinely
| feel less lonely when you're ambiently in the environment of
| other humans for whatever reason.
| throwawayboise wrote:
| This is why I exercise at the gym instead of at home. I don't
| really know anyone at the gym (nor do I really make an effort
| to), but I recognize faces and get some motivation from being
| in a place with others who are all there for the same
| purpose. Just riding a stationary bike or lifting weights at
| home by myself is not a habit I have ever been able to
| develop.
| rednerrus wrote:
| It's socializing you to open up to other people and take some
| chances.
| elric wrote:
| A bit of small talk with (for instance) the mail man or the
| cashier every once in a while, adds up to a sort of superficial
| relationship over time. I would be loathe to say to say that
| this offers a "fix" for loneliness, but I also wouldn't
| trivialise the value of these types of relationships.
| dukeyukey wrote:
| And I just want to add, "superficial" does not mean bad. Weak
| connections
| (https://www.bbc.com/worklife/article/20200701-why-your-
| weak-...) with people you see around can be powerful in
| combating loneliness.
| tartoran wrote:
| Being alone and far away from other people turns us somewhat
| savage. That's why these superficial interactions help, they
| are akin to walking around as a minimum type of movement one
| should do before it becomes a serious problem that requires a
| lot more effort to get out of.
| joeyphoen wrote:
| I totally hear you, although for me having a positive human
| interaction, even if it's just saying hey to the barista, or
| sharing an idle observation with a stranger while sitting in a
| park or at a beach somewhere, always brightens my day. It
| sounds so damn cliche, I know, but it's undeniable.
| throwawayboise wrote:
| That's how virtually every friendship starts, isn't it?
| DC1350 wrote:
| Never. Friendship comes from spending regular unstructured
| time with other people. It's very hard to make real friends
| on purpose.
| serjester wrote:
| I met a very good friend of mine in line at a restaurant.
| I'd argue it all comes down to your mindset - I'm not even
| that extraverted. At least in the midwest this is
| incredibly doable and common.
| hombre_fatal wrote:
| That just isn't true. Meeting a stranger, realizing you
| enjoy their company, trading contact info, deciding to
| spend "structured?" time together. This is most of my
| friendships and all of my relationships after university.
|
| Only the first meeting has to be incidental. Expecting all
| future contact to be incidental is how you let all could-be
| friendships and relationships pass right through your
| fingers.
|
| Take a little control over life.
| Kiro wrote:
| A sure way to become the "random guy at the store who
| thinks we're friends". No friendships start like that.
| FinanceAnon wrote:
| I think loneliness is something that goes deeper than how
| many friends you have. You can be surrounded with people and
| still feel lonely.
| hattmall wrote:
| I think that's depression. I'm guessing these tips are more
| for the technically lonely, which is probably a much higher
| number in the past due to WFH and quarantines.
| erhk wrote:
| It's also having shallow friendships
| conistonwater wrote:
| That's not true at all. Also, historically, there's been
| a trend of attributing negative things to depression.
| I've read John Cacioppo's work (here's an interview:
| https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2017/04/how-
| lonel...), and as far as I know it's both scientifically
| well-founded and at least somewhat actionable.
| throwawayboise wrote:
| I would agree about attributing too much to depression.
| I'm not saying depression isn't real, but there's a
| motivator to attribute things to it because it creates
| more customers for pills that will allegedly fix it.
| kayodelycaon wrote:
| As someone who has depression (via bipolar), this over-
| attribution is real and it hurts those who actually need
| help. Medication is literally a life-saver for me but no
| one should be taking it if they don't need it.
| [deleted]
| throwawayboise wrote:
| Ah well I agree with the second sentence, but having
| friends is different from just being around other people.
|
| And I guess if you really have friends and still feel
| lonely, making _more_ friends might not help much.
| ackbar03 wrote:
| I agree with this. I'd have periods of times where I'd feel
| super lonely and I'd go out and meet new people through group
| events introduced by friends or whatever. However usually it
| ends up feeling like a waste of time. It sounds super elitist
| but I'm rarely impressed by new people I meet and usually the
| ones I meet seem so different I'm not even sure I really even
| want to know them better. It seems super contradictory and
| sometimes I'd go home feeling worse
| leetcrew wrote:
| yeah it's just a rehash of the standard advice you always see
| in these kinds of articles/threads.
|
| > Simply put, be casual, not creepy, and read the room.
|
| this line gave me a chuckle at least. pretty sure this is the
| actual root of the problem for many lonely people.
|
| here's my guide to making friends:
|
| 1. have good social skills.
|
| 2. talk to people.
| hombre_fatal wrote:
| Well, your facetious advice is correct. Just switch the
| order. Talk to people -> build social skills -> talk to
| everyone -> find yourself in new friendships and
| relationships.
|
| Just consider the fact that if you're lonely, doing more of
| the same isn't going to help you. It's easy to be dismissive,
| but you're going to have to push your comfort zone to find
| change.
| rhines wrote:
| The trouble I have is that you have to start with a certain
| selfishness of wanting to improve your social skills even
| if it makes other people's days worse.
|
| Like I'm not the most charismatic guy, and I know that if I
| try to make any sort of non-trivial conversation with
| someone I don't know well I will make them uncomfortable.
| Men will be bored or think I'm crazy, women will think I'm
| hitting on them, and I don't really feel comfortable using
| them as guinea pigs for my social development.
|
| I'm all for pushing past my personal comfort zone to better
| myself, but when my self-improvement comes at the expense
| of others I can't help but hesitate.
| csdtx wrote:
| Loneliness comes from a lack of community and people who you can
| trust. You will not build a community and find people who you can
| trust through small talk and involving yourself in groups that
| are based on transient interests that can be changed in an
| instant. There is a reason gangs and groups have some sort of
| hazing and acceptance ceremony.
| s0rce wrote:
| I agree, I have never made a long standing connection with
| someone I've met while going to a store in a city. I've gotten
| to know store owners for stores I've frequented over years but
| not just randomly running into customers. It seems like most
| cities I've lived in you don't really just start talking to
| people randomly, maybe I'm just not very friendly but it seems
| like a survival instinct to avoid crazy folks.
| jumaro wrote:
| I had a friendship of several years with someone I met at my
| local library. I don't think something like that is common,
| but it's not impossible either.
| wincy wrote:
| My wife is from New York and has this instinct you speak of.
| She gets mad when I talk to bank tellers. I grew up in the
| Midwest and chat with everyone. It makes sense too, because
| even in a city of a million, very often I'll start chatting
| with someone and realize that we know someone in common.
| Happens all the time.
|
| My wife said such a thing would NEVER happen in New York,
| there's just too many people.
| rhines wrote:
| Would you be willing to talk a bit more on how you get into
| that kind of conversation? I feel like bridging the gap
| between the necessary discussion of "Can you deposit this
| cheque please? Thanks." to the personal discussion of "Oh
| wow you went to Sycamore high and played on the hockey
| team? Don't suppose you know Johnny?" is a real art if you
| don't want to sound like a probing weirdo, and I have no
| idea how to do it.
| throwawayboise wrote:
| Start with something pleasant and impersonal just to see
| if they're interested in talking. "Having a good day?"
| can lead to "how do you like working here" can lead to
| "you look familiar, are you originally from around here"
| can lead to "Oh wow you went to Sycamore High." If you
| get the sense that the other person isn't chatty or seems
| put off, you just stop talking.
| tormeh wrote:
| > My wife said such a thing would NEVER happen in New York,
| there's just too many people.
|
| You're not talking to a random sample of people, so it's
| not actually thaaat unlikely to be someone who knows
| someone you do
| hombre_fatal wrote:
| Most people here could benefit from talking to everyone and
| honing that skill, especially single guys, instead of just
| lambasting it as "small talk".
|
| When you don't talk to people, you throw out a great amount
| of serendipity in life. e.g. Most of my friends right now
| and women I've dated I've met in lines at the coffee shop,
| parking my rental bike at the dock, and other unlikely
| places.
|
| I wasn't always that person so I empathize with the knee
| jerk kick against the idea, but it's time to evolve, guys.
| PrimalDual wrote:
| I agree with your approach to the point I think it's the
| only way to really tackle loneliness and making friends.
| You just have to talk to strangers, often about nothing.
|
| Unfortunately for the less socially trained, the advice
| in the article seems pretty daunting. It reminds me of of
| the quote "people won't remember what you said but
| they'll remember how you made then feel". I am pretty
| sure I've made a few people feel awkward or mildly
| uncomfortable in my time trying to do this.
|
| Naturally, I've gotten better but since it's not
| something I do frequently I'm still pretty bad at it. I
| really wish there were a systematic way to train talking
| to strangers in an environment where it's ok to make
| minor social missteps. Unfortunately it seems to me that
| such an environment is some stage of development that I
| missed at an earlier age. Is there some way forward that
| doesn't just involve eating the losses as a cost of
| learning?
| alexanderdmitri wrote:
| I've found the opposite by working in a sales position.
|
| I'm introverted, so it sometimes felt like torture
| getting through some days. I felt dizzy and drained after
| 10+ hours of talking, pitching and trying to close
| sometimes hundreds of strangers over one day.
|
| People do buy based on emotion, you'll see the
| progression from feature to benefit to emotional benefit
| in most structured sales cycles. The best sales people
| make customers feel great and tie it to the product. You
| need to learn about what they're looking for and why,
| it's rarely 'one size fits all.'
|
| You learn tricks and learn to have fun. I realized mental
| fortitude and positive socialization is really hard work,
| not just disposition as I wrote it off before. You can
| set goals for yourself and learn from having an actual
| point of success. And you don't eat without achievement,
| in my case at least. Just pick a product that you
| actually believe in and makes lives and the world better
| (and has a good commission model).
| akiselev wrote:
| _> Is there some way forward that doesn't just involve
| eating the losses as a cost of learning?_
|
| I've always felt that Toastmasters and improv were good
| ways forward, depending on individual preference
| (formal/businessy vs comedic). The popular conception is
| that the former is all about public speaking and the
| latter comedy but most people I know who have gotten into
| either went to improve their general socializing/banter
| skill (I haven't participated in either, just relaying
| anecdata)
| throwawayboise wrote:
| It's weird because the New Yorkers I know are fearless
| talkers who will engage anyone on any topic.
| wincy wrote:
| She is like that now, but maybe it's because she grew up
| in a middle class suburb on Long Island. She'd get cat
| called by construction workers and stuff, and tried to
| make herself as unnoticed as possible.
|
| Now she's considered really aggressive by midwesterners
| but she's also known for getting things done because of
| that.
| nradov wrote:
| Oh your wife is from New York? Does she know my friend Joe?
| Joe Smith?
| [deleted]
| BuildTheRobots wrote:
| This is one of the reasons I'm so quick to suggest Hackspaces
| to geeky adults looking for social contact. Due to the
| massively varied nature of activities there tends to be a
| couple of sub-groups that cater to your specific interests
| (even if it's only an interest that month) and overall tends to
| be a group of decent people that you can easily progress
| through the smalltalk phases and into actual friendships.
| adkadskhj wrote:
| Yup. My thought process here[1] is that real friendships only
| occur from time. So you need long hours with people, whom you
| either get along with or you don't. You can choose the group
| of people to increase your odds for sharing interests or
| personality overlaps to help your chances, but it still
| requires time.
|
| This is why work friendships in my experience are quite easy,
| even for an introverted hermit like myself. Often common
| interests between people, and _tons_ of time bonding.
|
| If i really cared about forming more friendships i'd do what
| you suggested - find groups that interest me and spend the
| time needed to form friendships. I'm also a little weird in
| that while i get along with a lot of people and i am
| (hopefully) easy to get along with, i'm generally not
| interested in relationships without common interests and
| activities. Because i don't like to socialize purely for the
| sake of socializing - i like building something together, or
| playing something together, or enjoying food together, or
| whatever it is i am _actually_ interested in.. which is
| usually software.
|
| [1]: Which is probably useless, as i'm generally an introvert
| who still has less friends than i'd prefer.
| selestify wrote:
| > This is why work friendships in my experience are quite
| easy, even for an introverted hermit like myself. Often
| common interests between people, and _tons_ of time
| bonding.
|
| Really depends on your team, in my experience. Nothing
| wrong at all with being a middle-aged parent who's too busy
| to do things with coworkers outside of work, of course.
| It's a workplace, and we're here to do work, not hang out.
| But my friendships at work tend to happen with people who
| are around my age and are interested in doing fun things
| together outside of work too.
|
| Maybe it depends on your definition of "friend" as well.
| For me, no matter how well I get along with someone at
| work, so long as we're only chatting with each other over
| lunch and coffee breaks and the occasional team event,
| we're just acquaintances, not "real" friends in the sense
| that you hang out just for fun and help each other out with
| things that come up in personal life.
| throwawayboise wrote:
| Yes, I am friendly with many people at work, but these
| relationships have never developed into anything beyond
| that.
| em-bee wrote:
| same here. those people that became friends at work were
| those where we had a common interest besides work, and we
| would have become friends even if we had worked at
| different companies.
| imbnwa wrote:
| Unfortunately it feels like a lot of "culture fit" is
| actually "do I want to hang out with you"
| selestify wrote:
| Yes, that is really quite unfortunate.
| em-bee wrote:
| absolutely, also linux user groups.
|
| everywhere i travelled or lived i was easily welcomed to be
| an active member of the local user group and from several i
| have friends that still remember me a decade or two later.
|
| i don't even remember any smalltalk phase (except for the
| smalltalk programmers group :-). there usually was some topic
| or someone with a question and we launched straight into
| technical discussions. all i had to do was show up and
| participate occasionally.
| bhalina wrote:
| But can you make real connections without small talk first?
| em-bee wrote:
| yes, join an activity where you have to actively do something
| together. the conversation will then focus around what you
| are doing.
|
| when you play boardgames you talk to learn the rules of the
| game and you use the player interactions that make up the
| game.
|
| when you volunteer you talk about the work needs to be done.
|
| any hobbies or sports you talk about how to do things.
|
| you make connections by frequently interacting with the same
| people. do it long enough, be a reliable helper, and you'll
| make friends.
| mr-wendel wrote:
| Rightly said! Additionally, is worth getting good at enjoying
| small talk as a good way to get comfortable (and help others
| get comfortable!) in novel situations.
|
| The goal isn't to imagine that every exchange is an
| opportunity to make a friend and build a relationship,
| although that _is_ true. It is to build a respect and
| appreciation for reading and giving social cues.
|
| At some point you will be faced with a great opportunities to
| connect with others. Nothing is worse than unwittingly making
| people responsible for your needs by being unable to
| empathize with others because you're so focused on trying to
| make it work and get your needs met.
| [deleted]
| danenania wrote:
| Yep, along the same lines I've always found that it's much
| faster to get to know people by doing something immersive with
| them, even if it's only for a day or a weekend, compared to
| seeing them regularly but only for an hour or two. Spending a
| whole weekend together can be equivalent to months of weekly
| interactions or years of monthly interactions.
|
| So if you want to make friends, I'd suggest looking for multi-
| day workshops, retreats, festivals, tournaments, conferences,
| etc. over weekly or monthly meetups.
| napolux wrote:
| If you are, like me, tired of Medium...
| https://archive.is/wip/UJQq2
| 542458 wrote:
| Dumb question, what's wrong with Medium (as a platform)?
|
| Also that link doesn't work for me - server not found.
| ProAm wrote:
| It's just a terrible platform. Hard to use, hard to read,
| paywall.
| KingOfSheepX wrote:
| Paywall for mostly unpaid or underpaid content creators
| napolux wrote:
| this.
| [deleted]
| mumblemumble wrote:
| In Medium's defense, the idea is that, if you want to go
| ad-free while still being able to pay content creators
| anything at all, you need some other revenue source, and,
| as far as I can tell, the only other option that's seen any
| success at scale is paywalls. There's a pretty direct in,
| in one breath, complaining about paying for authors' work,
| and also complaining that authors don't get paid enough for
| their work.
|
| (Before someone mentions Patreon or Tippee - both of those
| are platforms for erecting paywalls.)
| Xenoamorphous wrote:
| When there's a link to an ad-funded site, HN complains.
| When it's to a paywalled site, HN complains.
| mumblemumble wrote:
| That shouldn't really be a surprise, or even criticism-
| worthy. "HN" isn't a single mind, it's a website where
| $BIGNUM people with myriad different opinions and takes
| on things all run their mouths, usually pseudonymously.
| _jal wrote:
| The closest analogy I can think of right now is
| panhandling.
|
| It isn't a solution to the problem, at best, it is a
| bandaid. I don't like it, but I don't want it banned. I
| wish I could think of something realistic and better, but
| can't.
|
| At least panhandlers don't have a platform eating some
| large percentage of the take.
| throwawayboise wrote:
| I didn't encounter a paywall? Firefox w/uBlock Origin.
| davidjfelix wrote:
| There's a free article limit and you're probably under
| it.
| napolux wrote:
| try https://archive.is/UJQq2
| amelius wrote:
| It's basically YouTube for written content, but with a
| paywall.
| csomar wrote:
| I couldn't read the article. I'm not sure if there is
| anything for the writer if he signs up to Medium.
| tombrossman wrote:
| > Also that link doesn't work for me - server not found.
|
| Are you using Cloudflare DNS? Related discussion here:
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19828317
| 542458 wrote:
| That's an extremely interesting link, thank you.
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