[HN Gopher] The Slander Industry
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       The Slander Industry
        
       Author : mcenedella
       Score  : 135 points
       Date   : 2021-04-25 11:15 UTC (11 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.nytimes.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.nytimes.com)
        
       | yrgulation wrote:
       | On a tangent, the author could have used "this person does not
       | exist" to generate fake images of people and a random name
       | generator.
       | 
       | EDIT: If it weren't for hosting costs, it might actually be fun
       | to spam the slanderers with fake posts on fake people.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | yifanl wrote:
       | > Mr. Sullivan told us that copying content was a great way to
       | lure people to his sites. (He said he didn't feel bad about
       | spreading unverified slander. "Teach children not to talk to
       | strangers, then teach them not to believe what they read on the
       | internet," he said.)
       | 
       | The fact that his business relies on people not being able to
       | teach themselves not to believe what they read on the internet
       | proves that he doesn't actually believe that this is effective
       | mitigation. We aren't going to see a cultural shift in timescales
       | shorter than a decade.
        
         | litoorachure wrote:
         | >We aren't going to see a cultural shift in timescales shorter
         | than a decade.
         | 
         | Why not? We already did. 2000 was still in the era of "never
         | give out accurate personal information online." 2005 was fully
         | in the MySpace/Facebook social media era.
        
           | yifanl wrote:
           | Facebook captured not just internet powerusers, but an
           | entirely new (and eventually, a substantially larger)
           | audience. I would very much doubt there's a larger audience
           | currently offline out there today.
        
         | anarazel wrote:
         | It seems like a model fairly vulnerable to a few people with
         | resources suing? Both from a copyright and a defamation angle?
        
       | jrochkind1 wrote:
       | > We asked her whether this was extortion. "I can't really give
       | you a direct answer," she said.
       | 
       | I feel like attorneys general should be prosecuting these sites.
        
       | gizmo wrote:
       | Clearly the people running these sites are true scumbags.
       | However, the article doesn't mention that the only reason these
       | sites making false claims have any value is because google
       | directs traffic to them! If somebody slanders me on a site nobody
       | reads why would I care? I only care if Google slanders me through
       | their search results. That's what you're paying for to get the
       | slander removed: removal from search results.
       | 
       | And yet nobody talks about the responsibility search engines have
       | to prune obvious scams, viruses, and the like from their index.
       | Google is not a neutral actor in this, it's Google's algorithm
       | that's getting exploited, so Google has both a moral
       | responsibility and the actual capability to fix this. Legal
       | action against these slander sites is important too, but more of
       | a secondary concern.
        
         | Nasrudith wrote:
         | Do you think that Google has being a motherfucking sorcerer as
         | a job qualification? Just sentiment analysis would not be
         | sufficient and epistemological truth detection is beyond what
         | is possible. "Have you resurrected Abraham Lincoln? No? You
         | bastard!" No sane moral system declares not doing the
         | impossible a sin.
         | 
         | Their interests are already aligned against it, no need for
         | farcical allocation of responsibility.
        
         | DyslexicAtheist wrote:
         | this will always remain an incredibly difficult problem to
         | solve. the fact that people mention Google should fix it shows
         | that we like to rely on 1 or 2 large companies who should solve
         | this and it isn't even in our imagination that if the power of
         | Google distributed over 30-50 companies might not create the
         | same issue in the first place.
         | 
         | take this thought further (this is going to suck and most will
         | hate this and I won't blame anyone who does because I've also
         | not completely finished this idea in my own head) ... what if
         | everyone got slandered somewhere online. Or in other words I
         | can't change the way people treat me but I can influence my
         | response to how I react. If everyone is slandered then nobody
         | is slandered because the narrative becomes the Web is shit so
         | you can't anyway trust what people write online.
         | 
         | A lot of the problems would go away if we'd come to the
         | conclusion that what happens online really is just a fake world
         | with people sharing unfinished thoughts (that constantly
         | evolve) rather than everything we publish is like a public
         | statement (because it sometimes even has our real name acting
         | almost like a signature on a contract).
        
           | stevenicr wrote:
           | "If everyone is slandered then nobody is slandered because
           | the narrative becomes the Web is shit so you can't anyway
           | trust what people write online."
           | 
           | Basically how everyone looks at news / journalism on tv and
           | the net then?
           | 
           | Looking at the 'news feed' on yahoo is not much different
           | than the old enquirer fake news tabloids of the grocery
           | stores in times past.. yet people sometimes cling to "this is
           | the way it is.. I saw it on the web" - even though I think
           | deep down they know they only get half the story / not half
           | the truth.. with any organization online.
           | 
           | So it's entertainment to shame the 'others' and some people
           | take it pretty hard when the 'others' shame their allies..
           | yep, not hard to imagine at this point sadly.
           | 
           | I long for a browser extension that follows my choice of
           | editors to remove all huffposts and many individual authors /
           | 'journalists' / editors from portals / socials / etc - even
           | then the truth will not be complete and much of what is not
           | true will still entertain/influence/stir up anger, etc.
           | 
           | once we get more deepfakes across the net I think people will
           | finally start to see it for what it is - all one big enquirer
           | trying to get eyeballs and clicks and as just as trustworthy.
           | 
           | Although - some people have started to say things like 'if it
           | wasn't true fbook would remove it - or put a notice on it -
           | and they haven't so it' probably true' - similar with google
           | I guess - ugh.
           | 
           | If google / fb continues to censor, fix and filter - it could
           | have a similar opposite effect. Ok we need a button on google
           | to show unfiltered.
           | 
           | More unfinished thoughts it seems.
        
           | zepto wrote:
           | > this will always remain an incredibly difficult problem to
           | solve.
           | 
           | Will it? Google prides itself on solving hard problems.
           | 
           | What if it only costs $10Bn a year to solve it?
        
             | BurningFrog wrote:
             | You can always solve the current problem.
             | 
             | But this is an arms race with uncountable adversaries who
             | profit from finding new ways to spread. Some will always
             | succeed.
        
               | bryanrasmussen wrote:
               | it's true once a business is set up to do this it will
               | want to do things to perpetuate itself, but obviously it
               | only got set up in the first place because it was obvious
               | and easy to do and therefore really cheap, if it was far
               | more difficult to do it would become expensive to do
               | because difficult things must be managed with work which
               | costs money.
               | 
               | In short I am not sure you are correct that there will be
               | uncountable adversaries trying to do this.
        
           | joe_the_user wrote:
           | _this will always remain an incredibly difficult problem to
           | solve. the fact that people mention Google should fix it
           | shows that we like to rely on 1 or 2 large companies who
           | should solve this and it isn 't even in our imagination that
           | if the power of Google distributed over 30-50 companies might
           | not create the same issue in the first place._
           | 
           | -- The issue doesn't seem unsolvable at all. Google can
           | investigate the network of slander websites and reputation
           | management consultants the same way these news reporters did.
           | Use some AI to find per quality site devoted to this stuff.
           | Google already devotes a lot of resources to similar things.
           | Google doesn't have to be certain a site is garbage to
           | delisted it, just get enough red flags.
           | 
           | -- But oppositely, if you had 30 dispersed search sites, it
           | seems likely this stuff would become utterly intractable, an
           | endless game of whack-o-mole. And so it seems like your
           | literally is primarily using kind of garbage reasoning just
           | to take a shot at Google. Not that I like Google or whatever
           | but it's an illustration of a common HN prejudice.
        
         | cercatrova wrote:
         | I don't need my search results censored, I'll decide what I
         | want to read.
        
           | jrochkind1 wrote:
           | There is no such thing as "natural" search results, the
           | search results are the result of complex interacting
           | algorithmic logic that Google implements to try to give you
           | "good" results.
           | 
           | When Google for instance penalizes a site for being slow; or
           | for being spammy; or being identified by the algorithm as
           | likely to be disliked by most users, and not be what they are
           | looking for; or for having spyware; or for seeming to use
           | "black hat" SEO with irrelevant keywords...
           | 
           | ...are these actions "censorship"? What kinds of shaping of
           | google results are censorship and what kinds aren't?
           | 
           | The results are _inherently_ shaped, they only exist because
           | of algorithms that implement choices, there are no  "natural"
           | unshaped results.
        
           | markbnj wrote:
           | Let me get this straight: someone posts slanderous lies about
           | another individual in order to defame them and perhaps profit
           | from the defamation; google is exploited to drive the slander
           | to the top of the search results; and you think any attempt
           | to remove the slander would constitute censorship and
           | compromise the purity of the information you have access to?
           | Really?
        
             | parineum wrote:
             | That is the definition of censorship and it does change the
             | information available. Knowing that someone is being
             | slandered can be informative.
             | 
             | You have to make a choice of what you prefer but the choice
             | you're making is censoring slander or not.
        
             | SuoDuanDao wrote:
             | The idea that Google should act as judge of what is slander
             | and what is a true allegation of wrongdoing is what gets up
             | the hackles of anyone who still thinks free speech has
             | value. The parent comment said nothing about the slander
             | being proven such in court, google is simply assumed to
             | know what is slander and what is not.
             | 
             | Which of course it doesn't, a state-of-the-art AI's
             | language comprehension is still extremely rudimentary and
             | would be prone to being gamed by powerful malicious actors
             | even if it were human level.
        
               | lupire wrote:
               | You are free to choose a search engine that ranks results
               | closest to your values.
        
           | unicodepepper wrote:
           | Your decision is not quite as neutral if all the options you
           | see point in the same general direction.
        
         | ChuckMcM wrote:
         | Seems like a search algorithm update is called for.
        
         | arp242 wrote:
         | At the end it does say you can contact Google to have these
         | kind of results removed, which seems to work well.
         | 
         | I don't disagree they should probably be more proactive, but
         | it's tricky because "X is a horrible person" can be legitimate
         | articles too; banning domains is a whack-a-mole, and of course
         | you'll get complaints about "censorship".
        
           | anxman wrote:
           | It doesn't remove the images though
        
         | Dumblydorr wrote:
         | Very good point about Google. Will they care enough to ever
         | leave their "neutrality" behind?
         | 
         | This reminds me of Yelp asking for tribute or protection
         | payments lest they put all the worst reviews on top and bury
         | the great reviews.
        
         | Nemi wrote:
         | This may be controversial, but I don't agree. Any legitimate
         | item can be used for bad things if someone wants.
         | 
         | At the risk of making a bad analogy, a car can be used by
         | someone to go on a rampage and mow down hundreds of people. If
         | that happened you can be sure that someone, somewhere would
         | suggest that the auto manufacturers have a responsibility to
         | stop this kind of thing from happening again by making a "kill
         | switch" available to police that can be used to stop the
         | vehicle remotely.
         | 
         | Another bad analogy would be using a hammer to kill someone.
         | 
         | Clearly there is a fuzzy line there somewhere. I am not saying
         | that companies have no responsibility in keeping their products
         | from being used in bad ways by bad people, but I do think it is
         | important not to only look at the bad thing and say that
         | companies need to stop that bad thing from happening at all
         | costs.
        
           | dvfjsdhgfv wrote:
           | It's not controversial, it's just Google's search engine has
           | become extremely complex and there is a lot of manual
           | intervention going on already. It is very convenient for them
           | to say they want to keep neutral but it doesn't work this
           | way.
           | 
           | To use your analogy, imagine a wave of murders done only with
           | a specific brand of hammer. As the CEO of the company
           | manufacturing these hammers, at the very least you would want
           | to inquire as to why your hammers were used and if there are
           | ways to modify your product in order to avoid this kind of
           | hammer misuse of your product in the future. At least any
           | decent person would do that. On the other hand, you could
           | argue in the world where the so called "shareholder value" is
           | the ultimate reference, the CEO would see it not as a
           | misfortune but rather an opportunity to sell more hammers.
        
             | lupire wrote:
             | If your hammer is the most popular and least expensive
             | hammer, there's not much to be done.
        
           | jankassens wrote:
           | I don't think Google is quite as neutral here. Google
           | suggests adding "cheater" to the search of the victim's names
           | and ranks those websites.
           | 
           | What if the manual of the hammer included a section "try
           | hitting someone with it".
           | 
           | Now, Google's recommendation clearly came from seeing those
           | words appear together, but to me Google is somewhere between
           | completely neutral like grep, a hammer, or a car and fully
           | editorialized like a blog or newspaper.
        
       | zarkov99 wrote:
       | The irony. The NYT, an institution that betrayed the society in
       | which its hosted to embrace misinformation, flattery and
       | reputation destruction as the primary tools of its trade,
       | publishes an article on the evil people that specialize on one
       | aspect of its own operations. Next: an article on how dangerous
       | Substack is.
        
         | gizmo wrote:
         | Doing good journalism is hard. Yes, the NYT sucks, but they do
         | good reporting too. And this article is very good, so if you
         | want to complain about how bad the NYT is maybe reserve that
         | criticism for those times when a bad article from the NYT hits
         | the front page.
        
           | zarkov99 wrote:
           | On the contrary. I believe the NYT to be harmful to the US
           | because of the division and self loathing it so energetically
           | pursues, mostly through fabrication, intimidation and
           | slander. The brand is well on its way to complete bankruptcy,
           | as more and more Americans realize their corruption. I for
           | one, will do what I can to speed that process up by pointing
           | out their hypocrisy every opportunity I get. Hopefully one
           | day the NYT will be so toxic that no reasonable person will
           | want to be caught reading it or writing for it. Maybe then
           | something better can take its place.
        
             | slibhb wrote:
             | I basically agree with you. But the fact that the NYT is
             | "bad for America" doesn't mean this article exploring the
             | slander industry is bad or wrong, only a bit ironic.
        
           | fortran77 wrote:
           | I have the same reasoning. The NY Times has done some awful
           | things, and they have some biases that are offensive to me.
           | 
           | But I am a paid subscriber! (As I am with the WSJ). Why? It's
           | a much better source, even with the faults, than all that
           | "free" journalism that the Hacker News people seem to like so
           | much.
        
             | splithalf wrote:
             | You get the future you pay for!
        
               | colinmhayes wrote:
               | And I guess you get a future full of clickbait in the
               | race to the bottom that is journalism that no one pays
               | for.
        
               | fortran77 wrote:
               | Maybe so, but the future we don't pay for is splogs,
               | misleading websites, paid "astroturf" efforts, etc.
               | 
               | I'd rather have the devil I know.
        
               | textgel wrote:
               | I'd not like to see this response go unanswered; I'm the
               | first to attack these organisations for the damage they
               | do and I've long abandoned reading them, having written
               | them off for the damage they've already done.
               | 
               | But I can respect honest acknowledgement of the bad while
               | arguing the good side is worth staying. You'll (obvs)
               | have a better perspective as a subscriber and given you
               | can approach the thing with nuance I'm willing to go with
               | your take on it.
        
           | imwillofficial wrote:
           | Nah, a reminder of how bad the NYT is, is always a good
           | reminder. NYT isn't guilty of making mistakes, they are
           | guilty of spreading lies. To frame their deception as an
           | honest mistake, is deceptive in and of itself.
        
             | AlexandrB wrote:
             | I wish these kinds of vitriolic posts cited some specific
             | instances and sourced their claims. Otherwise I'm left to
             | Google "NYT bad" to try to corroborate any of it.
        
               | timeschange wrote:
               | Bari Weiss's resignation letter from the NYT is probably
               | the best place to start
               | https://www.bariweiss.com/resignation-letter
               | 
               | Matt Taibbi has a good article on this too
               | https://taibbi.substack.com/p/the-news-media-is-
               | destroying-i...
               | 
               | Glenn Greenwald talks about this on his Substack a lot,
               | too, and the malpractice of the larger media as a whole.
               | This recent and highly topical Twitter thread is one of
               | many examples.
               | 
               | https://mobile.twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/138376788266
               | 898...
        
               | splithalf wrote:
               | It's common knowledge amongst most educated people. Sorry
               | if you had to find out by googling. Probably a sickening
               | feeling if you've been a subscriber or passed along any
               | of their retracted news as fact. I too used to trust the
               | nyt, but "show me incentive and I'll show you the
               | outcome."
        
               | throwitaway1235 wrote:
               | And imagine if Google is in bed with corporate media,
               | vice versa? Good luck searching for examples.
        
               | AlexandrB wrote:
               | So what you're saying it that's it's _utterly essential_
               | for the posters complaining about The NY Times to source
               | their claims? Why don 't they do it then?
        
               | textgel wrote:
               | They do, however those comments with links to evidence
               | all seem to get flagged for some very strange reason.
        
               | throwitaway1235 wrote:
               | Oh no. I was just making a random philosophical point.
               | Nothing really to read into. Just that it would be
               | difficult to find examples of organization x criticism,
               | using organization y, if both x & y are partners.
        
         | quantstats wrote:
         | Hacker News and painting The New York Times as the harbinger of
         | the end of civilization, name a more iconic duo.
        
           | imwillofficial wrote:
           | Batman and Robin
        
           | TomMckenny wrote:
           | On the positive, the personalities you'll be forced to work
           | with at YCombinator companies is made clear by the fanaticism
           | found in the comments here.
        
         | AzzieElbab wrote:
         | That is how a self proclaimed monopoly on truth should behave,
         | shouldn't it?
        
       | neonate wrote:
       | https://archive.md/iMGwD
        
       | xyzzy21 wrote:
       | "Slander Machine"?? You mean like the NYT?
        
         | throwitaway1235 wrote:
         | Off the charts hypocrisy.
        
       | f38zf5vdt wrote:
       | It seems like the value proposition of this sort of extortion
       | would rapidly fall if you just made a GPT3 bot that slandered
       | people using a name generator to iterate over the less than 1
       | billion unique names that exist in the world. Publish and spam
       | social media, mangle search results, then we'll be back to where
       | we were in the 90s, with no one believing the contents of search
       | engine results.
        
         | FridayoLeary wrote:
         | -with no one believing the contents of search engine results.
         | 
         | History is merely repeating itself i guess. Is Google is
         | becoming the problem that it originally came to solve?
        
         | roflc0ptic wrote:
         | Neal Stephenson wrote about something like this in "Fall" -
         | mass slander bots. Ultimate goal was destroying the credibility
         | of the internet. In his world, it worked, and people started to
         | watch only curated feeds. But it didn't help much..
        
         | Mediterraneo10 wrote:
         | You need more than GPT3-generated text. As the article notes,
         | slander sites often feature photos of specific individuals,
         | taken from their social media profiles or other sources, and
         | sometimes cropped in some way to make the target look even more
         | ridiculous.
        
           | f38zf5vdt wrote:
           | Well, it's a good thing nothing like that exists anywhere
           | online. :)
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | Mediterraneo10 wrote:
       | I'm kind of surprised at the absence of Scientology from the
       | article. They pioneered slander sites in the early millennium in
       | order to attack their critics, and they had excellent SEO-fu that
       | would usually make the slander sites rank higher than the
       | target's own site. Because they have branched out into other
       | businesses to bring in money, upon seeing the title of this
       | article I half-expected them to be offering services to third
       | parties in this vein, too.
        
       | gnicholas wrote:
       | > _In certain circumstances, Google will remove harmful content
       | from individuals' search results, including links to "sites with
       | exploitative removal practices." If a site charges to remove
       | posts, you can ask Google not to list it....
       | 
       | I eventually found the Google form. I submitted a claim to have
       | one URL removed. "Your email has been sent to our team," Google
       | told me.
       | 
       | Three days later, I received an email from Google saying the URL
       | would be removed from my search results._
       | 
       | Useful information, though one would hope to never need to use
       | it!
        
       | textgel wrote:
       | _Cough_ _Cough_ Massive Hypocrite _Cough_
       | https://www.dailywire.com/news/lawyer-covington-kids-threate...
       | _Cough_
        
         | prezjordan wrote:
         | Not a trustworthy news source
        
           | textgel wrote:
           | agreed, but generally that comes with being a slanderous news
           | organisation
        
           | sanity31415 wrote:
           | No less trustworthy than the NYT.
        
           | qPM9l3XJrF wrote:
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/January_2019_Lincoln_Memorial_.
           | ..
           | 
           | See citations, trustworthy enough for wikipedia
        
         | drak0n1c wrote:
         | In related recent news, Justice Charles Wood wrote a 16 page
         | order denying NYT's request to throw out a defamation suit
         | filed against NYT.
         | 
         | https://assets.ctfassets.net/syq3snmxclc9/maEy58HDFCR7qdtFOb...
        
         | PhasmaFelis wrote:
         | Was the NYT's reporting false? Someone on Twitter saying
         | something is obvious libel doesn't necessarily make it so.
        
           | textgel wrote:
           | Yes, they were even forced to walk it back
           | https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/22/opinion/covington-
           | teenage...
        
             | PhasmaFelis wrote:
             | "Forced to walk it back" is an oddly condemnatory way to
             | describe admitting to a mistake. Granted the mistake has
             | already been made, surely it's a good thing to own up to
             | it?
        
               | textgel wrote:
               | No, the pattern of slander an individual, wait for the
               | story to pass then apologise later once the damage is
               | done and a litigious response is coming to bear (claiming
               | it was a "mistake" or whatever excuse is necessary) is a
               | tactic used by scum and defended by the same.
        
       | adolph wrote:
       | The "Slander Industry" has existed for a long time.
       | 
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Jewell
        
       | peppermint_tea wrote:
       | this makes my blood boil, the author is obviously technically
       | savvy, but how damaging it can be for someone (even technically
       | inclined) in this day and age.
       | 
       | related horror story:
       | https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/30/technology/change-my-goog...
       | 
       | it would be a real shame if an organised group of person would
       | start posting programatically to these slander sites with
       | material from https://thispersondoesnotexist.com/ and randomly
       | generated names. Storing all these pictures will cost something
       | afterall.
        
         | peppermint_tea wrote:
         | on a second thought, we could re-use the names and some of the
         | texts on these slander sites with the newly generated posts
         | (with the generated picture) to give website administrators a
         | hard time figuring out which post is a real person and which
         | one is a duplicate, bonus, google will index all these "john
         | doe" and "jane doe", bluring the real person/victim in a ton of
         | results with different pictures so anyone looking at the
         | results will think the site is total garbage (which it is)
        
       | llarsson wrote:
       | This is truly despicable.
       | 
       | Using SEO tactics to launch an automated slander campaign against
       | common people, who likely have very little other web presence so
       | that the slanderous material som be among the top hits, and then
       | charging them money to have it removed.
       | 
       | Horrible, considering how many recruiters will lazily just Google
       | a candidate's name and blindly trust the results.
        
         | jcadam wrote:
         | This is one of those instances where it is fortunate I have a
         | common name. The top results if you google my name is some 18th
         | century scottish architect. Hell, there's even another software
         | engineer with the same name in the UK who always appears above
         | me in search results. He had made a name for himself in the RoR
         | community, apparently - I get emails from recruiters who
         | apparently think I'm him (looking for a RoR expert) all the
         | time.
        
         | mbg721 wrote:
         | This, along with many of the excesses of cancel-culture, goes
         | away if recruiters/employers stop acting like twelve-year-olds
         | who just heard a piece of juicy gossip. What do we think when
         | someone in their personal life cuts off a friend with the
         | reasoning "I don't mind this person, but what will my other
         | friends think of me??"
        
         | zackees wrote:
         | When will The New York Times investigate one of the largest
         | slander laundering operations ever created in the United
         | States: The New York Times?
         | 
         | The New York Times => Wikipedia References NYT => Google EAT
         | score adjusts ranking according to what the NYT/Wiki said. Once
         | "The Network" decides to slander someone there is 0 recourse as
         | all the other sites de-rank or disconnect the individual.
         | 
         | To get an extreme idea of how carefully in lockstep the
         | "Network" acts to collude against actors it doesn't like, look
         | what was done to erase "covfefe" off the internet:
         | 
         | https://www.zachvorhies.com/covfefe/
        
         | gadf wrote:
         | It's actually a positive. The commoditization and proliferation
         | of content-free and evidence-free complaints against people
         | will lead inexorably to the distrust of all such things,
         | leading to a birth of a future "evidenced-based" moral culture
         | that will wipe the slanderous, coercive and blackmail-esque
         | "fake accusation" intelligence-industrial complex from the face
         | of the earth, break it into ten thousand pieces and scatter it
         | to the winds upon the waste. The trend is already in progress,
         | and much of the blackmail networks are already undone. The
         | pendulum will swing back. We're just in the the lowest, and
         | fastest, point of its arc right now.
        
           | xbar wrote:
           | Do you have an accurate pendulum measuring system?
        
           | splithalf wrote:
           | Used to think this but now I'm not so sure. If you aren't
           | already a skeptic I can't imagine what else you need. People
           | used to pay the national enquirer for fake news. People want
           | to believe horrible things about other people and will not be
           | encumbered by facts or rationality.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | tomohawk wrote:
       | This is rich comming from the NYT.
       | 
       | They are now only the 8th defendant since 1964 to be in the
       | situation they are in for likely acting with "actual malice" and
       | "reckless disregard" in making defamatory statements.
       | 
       | https://thefederalist.com/2021/03/22/project-veritas-wins-ea...
        
         | AlexandrB wrote:
         | Project Veritas? Really? These are the guys who have cut
         | together several "Homer Badman" style videos of their political
         | opponents and tried to pass them off as news. They also tried
         | to plant literal fake news and were caught[1] by a traditional
         | media organization. I'll be surprised if this lawsuit results
         | in anything.
         | 
         | [1] https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-42150322
        
           | Ferrington wrote:
           | Your complaints regarding Veritas hardly compare to the
           | wrongdoings of the New York Times. Just recently you had the
           | NYT reporting that Trump supporters had murdered a police
           | officer with a fire extinguisher, then retracting that story
           | and claiming he died from exposure to bear spray only for the
           | truth to finally come out that he had died from natural
           | causes the day after the alleged murder.
           | 
           | As for edited videos complaint all media outlets take this
           | approach, with Vertias being one of the few to release their
           | videos in unedited form.
        
           | timeschange wrote:
           | If you look closer at O'Keefe and his organization you'll
           | find that since the ham-fisted attempts to slander ACORN
           | backfired, they've grown more savvy, and they now release
           | more unedited footage and have won more lawsuits than they've
           | lost
        
           | c3534l wrote:
           | They are, ironically, professional slanderers.
        
         | Vaslo wrote:
         | They are no longer an independent news organization and instead
         | are a trafficker and sycophant for one set of views
         | masquerading as independent journalism.
        
       | tartoran wrote:
       | This is a good reason to keep off the social media as much as
       | possible because anything can be doctored to go against you.
       | Starting from the real name, anything you say and and opinion,
       | photos of you, all can be used against you not only if they're
       | public but if the attacker can get into your private circle (eg,
       | hack the accont of a person that is and vaccum up all info about
       | you).
        
       | bondarchuk wrote:
       | www.nytimes.com
        
       | makomk wrote:
       | This is, of course, not new - it's been going on for at least a
       | decade. One of the networks of sites like this even funded a
       | lawsuit against one of the big revenge porn site networks that
       | was carefully written to be entirely porn-specific and avoid any
       | arguments that touched the shared parts of their business model -
       | presumably because revenge porn was so evil it was bringing
       | unwanted attention and they wanted it gone before someone took
       | action that might affect them.
       | 
       | I remember noticing this same thing back then with those sites as
       | well: "Most sidebar ads are programmatic. That means they are
       | served up by an ad network with no involvement by the people who
       | run a site, and they change every time you visit. That wasn't the
       | case here. The RepZe ads were permanent fixtures, written into
       | the websites' coding." It was really obvious that the adverts for
       | removal services on that network of sites weren't standard
       | programmatically-selected ads, that they must have some kind of
       | business arrangement. On that network, they also seemed to be the
       | only genuine ads - meaning that the removal fees were presumably
       | their sole source of income.
        
       ___________________________________________________________________
       (page generated 2021-04-25 23:01 UTC)