[HN Gopher] The NCAA Erased My Career
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       The NCAA Erased My Career
        
       Author : 83457
       Score  : 125 points
       Date   : 2021-04-24 21:14 UTC (1 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.theplayerstribune.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.theplayerstribune.com)
        
       | turndown wrote:
       | I always wonder about the upbringing(read: brainwashing) that
       | fans of the NCAA who are such rabid defenders of its "heritage"
       | had to have gotten to believe such childish things. The NCAA is
       | the ultimate unpaid internship; if you are such a big fan of
       | those, I encourage you to quit your paying job(if you have one)
       | and pursue one.
       | 
       | I remember in high school(~6-10 years ago for me) people would
       | talk about situations with the NCAA like this, and people who had
       | absolutely no stake whatsoever in the system would defend it,
       | often with the kind of weak arguments many have mentioned in this
       | thread. Disappointing that we can't simply agree that people
       | working should be proportionately paid. Some mention scholarships
       | and the like, and I don't think that this is a "terrible" system,
       | but it's clearly incredibly weighed in favor of the NCAA and the
       | schools themselves.
        
       | dehrmann wrote:
       | Is there something like libel-by-omission for cases like this?
        
       | dmurray wrote:
       | This athlete got a scholarship, elite coaching, a college degree
       | and is now playing her sport professionally. She's a beneficiary
       | of the system, not a casualty of it.
       | 
       | The only harm that has been done is that the NCAA has written her
       | out of its internal records (it's dishonest to say "My Career"
       | when it explicitly refers to her achievements as a professed
       | amateur).
       | 
       | The NCAA does things that seem exploitative and wrong to me. But
       | it also helps a lot of people. This young lady's outrage is not a
       | good argument for the former.
        
         | crooked-v wrote:
         | > it's dishonest to say "My Career" when it explicitly refers
         | to her achievements as a professed amateur
         | 
         | NCAA's claims of "amateurism" are blatantly dishonest in the
         | first place. They control what are pro minor leagues in every
         | way except for the denial of straightforward compensation to
         | the players.
        
         | notacoward wrote:
         | That's one of the worst _ad hominems_ I 've ever seen. Sure,
         | the author herself might have done OK, but she's pretty
         | explicit that the incident affected others and that there are
         | many more who haven't been so fortunate. She even names several
         | and tells their stories. She uses her own case only as an
         | example, not as the basis for her entire argument. Dismissing
         | it because "she's a beneficiary" is absurd.
        
           | dmurray wrote:
           | > she's pretty explicit that the incident affected others and
           | that there are many more who haven't been so fortunate. She
           | even names several and tells their stories.
           | 
           | For the three other athletes mentioned by name, in each case
           | the story is that they had medical issues caused by,
           | exacerbated by, or at least neglected by the NCAA. That's a
           | real injustice and a real story. What happened to the author
           | is meh.
        
       | richwater wrote:
       | The whole concept of college sports has been detrimental to what
       | should be the true goal of these institutions: educating our next
       | generation.
        
       | zackbloom wrote:
       | Ultimately everything is a system. If the NCAA is incredibly
       | militant about enforcing these rules, the schools will be
       | incredibly paranoid about giving athletes any financial
       | incentive. If the NCAA is more lax, schools will put less effort
       | and attention to detail into enforcement. I'm not saying these
       | policies are good or ethical, but this type of militant
       | enforcement absolutely changes how careful schools are.
        
         | dehrmann wrote:
         | They only this strict out of self-preservation. They know
         | they're ~5 years or one high-profile screw-up away from having
         | to _actually pay_ football and basketball players, so they 're
         | delaying it as long as they can.
        
         | throwawayboise wrote:
         | I mean, a school could just disaffiliate from the NCAA. They
         | could run independent sports programs and play other
         | independent schools, or join the NAIA or some other
         | association, or start a new association. They won't though,
         | because ultimately it's all about the money.
         | 
         | Also to your point about enforcement, you'll see that the
         | money-making programs (i.e. Football and Basketball) at the big
         | D1 schools get away with a lot more operating in the gray area
         | than small schools and non-revenue sports. The NCAA isn't going
         | to shit in their gravy train. They save the virtue-signal
         | enforcement for schools and sports that don't make any money
         | anyway.
        
           | notacoward wrote:
           | > They won't though, because ultimately it's all about the
           | money.
           | 
           | Sounds like an anti-monopoly case in the making.
        
         | Sebguer wrote:
         | The entire point of the article is that the policies are bad
         | and unethical. The NCAA is a system built to exploit college
         | athletes from top to bottom.
        
           | HarryHirsch wrote:
           | Indeed. But where are the wokepeople from UMass Amherst? They
           | are all about social justice, why can't they do something for
           | their own students who are being taken advance of by college
           | sports?
        
             | Sebguer wrote:
             | Did you actually look to see if they were doing anything
             | before you made this comment?
             | 
             | https://www.umass.edu/newsoffice/article/umass-amherst-
             | resea...
        
         | Retric wrote:
         | It's not about enforcing the rules, it's about the appearance
         | of enforcing the rules.
         | 
         | The NCAA need to seem important, which means they need people
         | to break the rules regularly and be punished for it. That's
         | just one of many ways their fucking over students for the
         | NCAA's benefit.
         | 
         | The appropriate response is for students to boycott the NCAA,
         | but socially and financially that is a huge hit. Normally the
         | way around this is a union, but good luck getting one started.
        
           | trhway wrote:
           | Can't the students start their own league? Internet broadcast
           | the plays, etc. I mean NCAA is just a relic of the old TV
           | epoch and is ready to be disrupted. Maybe we'll see some
           | startup for it.
        
         | alexeldeib wrote:
         | It's a bad system - at least for athletes. It's inherently
         | exploitative. I'd liken it to nearly-free labor. The athletes
         | had no idea they were infringing. The NCAA and the schools make
         | money off these athletes. The schools self-reported. There was
         | no recourse for the affected individuals.
         | 
         | The incredible power imbalance between banning these athletes
         | from making money, and then turning around and doing it
         | yourself while being judge, jury, and executioner, makes a
         | mockery of the talent.
         | 
         | These are barely "amateurs" in any real sense, the system
         | exploits that fact and the seal of approval "amateur" status
         | brings to rake in money.
        
           | bruceb wrote:
           | "It's a bad system - at least for athletes."
           | 
           | No. It's a bad system for some athletes.
           | 
           | Its a good system for athletes that are not stars and don't
           | play big money sports. Free education, free trips, play
           | something you really like to do.
           | 
           | For other they are forgoing money they could earn.
           | 
           | If the system changes, I am sure it will be good for some
           | athletes, not so much of others.
        
             | dehrmann wrote:
             | > Its a good system for athletes that are not stars and
             | don't play big money sports.
             | 
             | Honestly, for the author, she was playing tennis and got an
             | education out of it on the backs of those playing revenue
             | sports. I don't fault her for this--she didn't make the
             | system--but it doesn't look like she went pro, and it she
             | wasn't kicked out while she was in school, so the only
             | damage she's suffering is the NCAA saying she wasn't on the
             | team. Unless she's coaching, and being a college athlete is
             | almost a qualification, she seems to have done OK.
             | 
             | That said, I still think she's right for calling out the
             | NCAA.
        
               | throwawayboise wrote:
               | She wrote that as of 2020, "I had been playing
               | professional tennis for three years"
               | 
               | She graduated; they're not taking her degree away. And
               | honestly nobody cares about the college record of a
               | professional tennis player -- the fact that it was
               | vacated on a technicality like this is not going to hurt
               | her professional career at this point. Likely she could
               | coach as well, there are coaches in the NCAA who have
               | done far worse (intentionally, not accidentally) and
               | still get jobs.
        
               | dehrmann wrote:
               | > I had been playing professional tennis for three years
               | 
               | I stand corrected. When I googled her to check that
               | statement, I didn't see anything promising on the first
               | page. I should have looked harder.
        
             | OminousWeapons wrote:
             | I don't see why saying "athletes can be paid" should
             | naturally lead to "all athletes MUST be paid". There is no
             | reason you can't have a football program run as a separate
             | entity with paid athletes and also have a school fencing
             | program where athletes aren't paid and just play for fun
             | and / or are on scholarship.
        
       | Ekaros wrote:
       | Maybe that level of athleticism should be separated from
       | education and run as actual business with people paid as actual
       | athletes for whatever their market value is.
        
         | OminousWeapons wrote:
         | This is precisely what should be done. The scholarship model
         | should die. The athletes should be employees of the University
         | and paid a salary for their work. If they want to go to college
         | on top of that, they can pay for that separately or negotiate
         | reduced tuition as a benefit or in lieu of salary.
        
         | dehrmann wrote:
         | I agree, but football and basketball are part of college
         | culture, and it would take away a built-in fanbase. I'm not
         | sure if people would be as interested in NFL-lite games with
         | 100+ teams where the players and teams aren't at least
         | nominally associated with colleges. I think it might be too
         | late to _actually_ split them up.
        
           | Ekaros wrote:
           | Yeah, it's too ingrained now. Personally I would prefer
           | breaking up the franchises, moving to regional leagues that
           | could feed to top with relegations and promotions.
        
         | Sebguer wrote:
         | But then we'd damage their profits. The system you're
         | describing is how it works in most of the rest of the world.
        
         | Shacklz wrote:
         | As someone not from the US, the whole role of sports in
         | college/universities seems so... weird.
         | 
         | Mixing institutions with an education and research purpose with
         | sport tribalism seems like a terrible idea to begin with,
         | adding tons of money to the mix surely can't result in anything
         | that has anything to do with education...
        
           | Ekaros wrote:
           | I have nothing against of schools having clubs doing sports.
           | Even marginally supported by funds from students for things
           | like travel and gear.
           | 
           | But the level of strange commercialisation is just different
           | from rest of the world. Insane amounts of money spend and
           | revenues generated, but nothing really end up at athletes.
        
         | kdmdmdmmdmd wrote:
         | The mods on this website are self serving nigggergagggggotss.
         | You are not entitled to free, on topic and engagement with
         | engineers to boost your rotten vulture capitalist garbage
         | obfuscated products and pathetic "hacker" forum.
         | 
         | That's really nice surprise why the most applauded engineers
         | never comment here anymore
        
           | jzwinck wrote:
           | Should we also stop using tax money to subsidize education
           | for doctors?
           | 
           | College athletics are education too. It's not like you become
           | a tennis pro by just hitting the gym a lot. The best players
           | study the rules, study physiology, study human nature....
        
             | [deleted]
        
             | corndoge wrote:
             | Comparing eg tennis players and doctors doesn't really
             | explain anything about your position to me, one serves a
             | critical public function and one does not
        
               | jzwinck wrote:
               | My position is that using tax money to further the
               | development of young adults in the same community doesn't
               | have to depend on their career path.
               | 
               | I didn't realize you'd hang your hat on top level tennis
               | players being less valuable people than (average/typical)
               | doctors. I don't think the two careers are
               | interchangeable in most cases, and if a person wants to
               | become the best at a popular sport, their time in
               | university is important for that and why wouldn't we want
               | each member of society to reach their highest potential?
        
           | darig wrote:
           | Wait until you find out who pays for the stadiums they play
           | in after they go pro.
        
       | trentnix wrote:
       | As Cartman remarked - 'student ath-o-letes...brilliant sir!'
       | 
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ZB0qsJuRDo
        
       | sunstone wrote:
       | Bureaucracy run amok.
        
       | tims33 wrote:
       | Another disappointing story about the NCAA. I don't know how to
       | fix it, but since the NCAA represents the schools maybe there
       | should be a parallel body to represent the athletes.
        
         | LegitShady wrote:
         | >I don't know how to fix it,
         | 
         | Stop doing anything that gives them money for any reason and
         | let them know why. If enough people do it, the problem solves
         | itself one way or the other.
        
       | cortesoft wrote:
       | I hate the NCAA so much. I can't believe they have the gall to
       | say they need to maintain amateurism while so many people and so
       | many huge corporations make billions of dollars off it. Why does
       | paying the player hurt amateurism but paying the coach doesn't?
       | Why would a player making $50 to sign his name on some hats ruin
       | the game, but CBS paying the NCAA billions for the rights to
       | broadcast the game be totally ok?
       | 
       | If they want to insist amateurism is so important, then fine. Be
       | amateur. Have student volunteers do the broadcasting, don't show
       | any ads during the game, and take all the money out of it.
       | Otherwise don't tell me players are the only ones who can't make
       | money off of this.
        
         | jasonwatkinspdx wrote:
         | The owner of the convenience store near me played football for
         | Stanford on a full ride. He's had to walk with a cane, or a
         | walker on a bad day, since his 30s. It's an impediment to his
         | job today, as he struggles to get around restocking throughout
         | the day.
         | 
         | College football makes obscene amounts of money, while at the
         | same time discarding a ton of young athletes with permanently
         | broken bodies. The TBI stuff in particular is deeply
         | disturbing. I heard a heartbreaking interview with a family
         | where 3 generations are entering dementia simultaneously
         | because the younger 2 both played college ball.
         | 
         | Coaches, schools, broadcasters... true fortunes being made by
         | this industry every single day. But somehow giving the dang
         | kids a slice of that ruins the authenticity of the league. What
         | a pile of nonsense.
        
         | Mirioron wrote:
         | > _Why does paying the player hurt amateurism but paying the
         | coach doesn 't? Why would a player making $50 to sign his name
         | on some hats ruin the game, but CBS paying the NCAA billions
         | for the rights to broadcast the game be totally ok?_
         | 
         | Are the players underage? If the players are treated as
         | employees of a business would the business have to jump through
         | tons and tons of extra legal hoops?
         | 
         | I'm not saying that this is the case. But it's not too uncommon
         | that messed up situations arise as a result of society's desire
         | to protect a group.
        
           | ameliaquining wrote:
           | The vast majority of American college students, including
           | college athletes, are adults.
        
           | crooked-v wrote:
           | > Are the players underage?
           | 
           | Why would that matter? Underage sports participants get money
           | all the time (tournament prizes, junior racing sponsorships,
           | etc).
        
           | cortesoft wrote:
           | No, they are 18-22 year olds
        
         | antonzabirko wrote:
         | Because none of it is genuine, that's why. It's an entity that
         | exists to profit off young athletes.
        
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       (page generated 2021-04-24 23:01 UTC)