[HN Gopher] Simone Weil and the Need for Roots
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Simone Weil and the Need for Roots
        
       Author : acsillag
       Score  : 75 points
       Date   : 2021-04-22 21:15 UTC (1 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (paulkingsnorth.substack.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (paulkingsnorth.substack.com)
        
       | senderista wrote:
       | Obligatory classic takedown:
       | http://www.bopsecrets.org/rexroth/essays/simone-weil.htm
        
         | dang wrote:
         | I wouldn't use the word 'takedown' for that because to me the
         | word connotes internet takedown culture, which that piece long
         | precedes. It's an interesting artifact of the early reception
         | to Weil in the English-speaking world. It's deeply ad hominem,
         | though (not to mention rather shockingly sexist by our
         | standards nowadays).
        
       | Nursie wrote:
       | > We need these roots.
       | 
       | You might. I need friends and family, some community
       | participation is nice, sure, but I don't particularly feel the
       | need for gods, ancient traditions or worship, which these seem to
       | be tied up with in the text.
       | 
       | > Our culture is not in danger of dying; it is already dead, and
       | we are in denial.
       | 
       | This just seems like unnecessary hyperbole.
        
         | slibhb wrote:
         | Are you sure you know what you need? I rarely am. I'm also not
         | sure that Simone Weil is right but I'm a little scared she
         | might be.
        
         | kewrkewm53 wrote:
         | I think that in the long run wider societies need some shared
         | belief system / culture / ideas to function properly, just like
         | all kinds of communities do in smaller scale.
         | 
         | Essentially we are tribal animals, and nothing can really
         | change that. Without a sense of common identity there's little
         | solidarity, and without solidarity you'll eventually have
         | conflict. Failed states with civil wars tend to be those which
         | lack any kind of common identity and ideas, while more
         | successful ones tend to have those.
        
         | aphextron wrote:
         | >I don't particularly feel the need for gods, ancient
         | traditions or worship
         | 
         | You do. It's just that in modern society we've substituted
         | these for more easily digestible, commodified, manufactured
         | replicas. Hollywood celebrities have replaced the pantheon of
         | Greek gods. Consumerism is the new piety. Techno Utopianism and
         | liberalism (in the classical sense) has supplanted the ancient
         | traditions of old. The Zuckerbergs and Musks of the world are
         | our priestly class. We still need these things, but instead of
         | searching for them, communing with others, and engaging with
         | our inherited body of three thousand years of western cultural
         | heritage to find meaning, we purchase it with the press of a
         | button on an app.
        
           | UncleOxidant wrote:
           | Don't forget politics. As traditional religion has retreated
           | Politics has taken on a greater role - politics as tribal
           | identity. Good article here: https://www.theatlantic.com/maga
           | zine/archive/2021/04/america...
           | 
           | "The notion that all deeply felt conviction is sublimated
           | religion is not new. Abraham Kuyper, a theologian who served
           | as the prime minister of the Netherlands at the dawn of the
           | 20th century, when the nation was in the early throes of
           | secularization, argued that all strongly held ideologies were
           | effectively faith-based, and that no human being could
           | survive long without some ultimate loyalty. If that loyalty
           | didn't derive from traditional religion, it would find
           | expression through secular commitments, such as nationalism,
           | socialism, or liberalism. The political theorist Samuel
           | Goldman calls this "the law of the conservation of religion":
           | In any given society, there is a relatively constant and
           | finite supply of religious conviction. What varies is how and
           | where it is expressed."
        
           | Nursie wrote:
           | I don't worship celebs either, nor Musks nor Zucks.
           | 
           | So I say again, _you_ may need these things, I don't.
        
         | mrphoebs wrote:
         | The content seemed to be talking about the fundamental common
         | operating system for societies, not individuals. Individuals
         | might have varying needs but as long as their needs align well
         | with a superset of a culture's fundamental tenets the society
         | would be relatively harmonious, or at least that's the way I
         | see the author approaching the subject. I don't think these
         | fundamental tenets need to have a theological basis for them,
         | but as humans an overwhelmingly large part of our history as a
         | people tribes, kingdoms and societies have been grounded by a
         | shared belief in a common higher power. (I'm an atheist btw)
         | 
         | >This just seems like unnecessary hyperbole
         | 
         | This refutation seems to be as vague and unfounded as the thing
         | it's refuting and doesn't provide much value. It would be
         | beneficial to everyone reading if you can elucidate.
        
           | Nursie wrote:
           | It'a a bland assertion and hyperbolic. I'm not sure there's
           | more to be said.
        
         | totetsu wrote:
         | Well she was a christian mystic, with Jewish parents, so its
         | bound to be tied up with that. If you get past that even as an
         | atheist a lot of her writings are quite thought provoking.
         | IIRC, using spiritual thinking as a flashlight to illuminate
         | the unknown that is outside what can be understood by reason,
         | or, that which is divided is also connected .. and maybe some
         | stuff about friends and separation
        
           | UncleOxidant wrote:
           | As the article points out, she was a Christian but very
           | critical of the dominant forms of Christianity:
           | 
           | "Weil herself was Christian, but was scathing about official
           | forms of the faith which had, she said, in most cases lined
           | themselves up with 'the interests of those who exploit the
           | people.'"
        
         | ceilingcorner wrote:
         | When your country falls apart because there is no longer a
         | shared narrative, language, or worldview holding it together,
         | yes, it will affect you.
        
       | borepop wrote:
       | When an author is (1) simultaneously lamenting the loss of
       | "roots" and "real culture" and attacking internationalism, (2)
       | taking gratuitous shots at "wokeness," and (3) dressing the whole
       | thing up in an intentionally vague "intellectual" wrapper that
       | doesn't actually add anything substantive, it's not that hard to
       | see where he's heading. All this article needs is a light
       | sprinkling of references to "cultural Marxism" to reach full
       | Jordan Peterson status.
        
         | UncleOxidant wrote:
         | I kind of see what you're saying, but it seems odd to use Weil
         | for this kind of project since she was well known to be on the
         | Left of the political spectrum (and also quoting Arundhati
         | Roy). I don't see this article going in the Jordan Peterson
         | direction, though, but more in the direction of Wendell Berry.
        
       | jqgatsby wrote:
       | Did anyone else think this was going to be about algebraic roots?
       | 
       | The complex numbers are famously the algebraic closure of the
       | reals, but I find myself wondering lately if there is a related
       | thought which doesn't privilege them over the hyperbolic numbers
       | or the dual numbers.
        
         | bjeds wrote:
         | You are being downvoted, but this is not as off-topic as it may
         | seem.
         | 
         | Simone Weil had a brother, Andre Weil. You may not know his
         | name on the top of your head, but I guarantee you that you've
         | heard of the pseuodonym he created together with some other
         | mathematicians: Nicolas Bourbaki.
         | 
         | I'm sure Weil and/or Bourbaki has lots to say about these
         | topics.
        
       | bittercynic wrote:
       | The idea that the unrooted go on to unroot those around them hit
       | hard, but I think the opposite is also true.
       | 
       | In the past few years I've had the good fortune to have some very
       | kind, generous people in my life, and when I saw the positive
       | impact they had on those around them, and on myself, I realized
       | that things about me were magnifying the distress in people
       | around me, and I needed to make some changes.
       | 
       | If you have the good fortune to be in a situation where you can
       | work on cultivating a generous spirit, I think it could be one
       | way to push back against the machine.
        
       | killtimeatwork wrote:
       | I tend to fully agree with the thesis. Sadly, there's nothing to
       | return to, so I am condemned to live in a current barren
       | wasteland of modernity.
        
         | seandoe wrote:
         | I think we're blessed to live in a time where we have such a
         | plethora of scientific knowledge that shows how deeply
         | connected we are to the natural world and each other. It's a
         | shame we choose to focus on our subtle differences to
         | intentionally divide ourselves.
        
           | kergonath wrote:
           | We are not deeply connected to the natural world at all.
           | Otherwise we'd have panicked about the mass extinction we are
           | causing already and we'd do more than talking about
           | addressing climate change.
           | 
           | We are profiting off nature, turning it into a domesticated
           | version we hope will be sustainable (but have no proof it
           | will be, quite the contrary).
           | 
           | And yet it's true that we never understood the world around
           | us so well. This is fantastic if you are interested in
           | sciences. Overwhelming evidence shows that most people don't
           | care.
        
             | ceilingcorner wrote:
             | You have misunderstood the word _connected_. The parent
             | commenter meant that we are intertwined with nature, not
             | that we are responsible caretakers.
        
               | kergonath wrote:
               | Oh right. I interpreted it as connected on an emotional
               | level. Also, I might be a bit bitter about the whole
               | situation.
               | 
               | In any case, connected or not, nature is about to give us
               | a good kicking.
        
           | burntoutfire wrote:
           | > I think we're blessed to live in a time where we have such
           | a plethora of scientific knowledge that shows how deeply
           | connected we are to the natural world and each other.
           | 
           | We are mostly connected to each other via sanitized business
           | transactions. Meanwhile, we don't even know the names of most
           | of our neighbors.
        
             | Mediterraneo10 wrote:
             | Not knowing one's neighbours may seem like a problem to
             | you, but it can be a great thing for others. So many young
             | people who move from close-knit small towns or villages to
             | big cities (especially, but not only, sexual minorities),
             | find it liberating that no one is scrutinizing their
             | lifestyles like back home.
             | 
             | Also, countries like Finland manage to be high-trust and
             | relatively homogeneous societies, while at the same time
             | having strong expectations for privacy in a block of flats,
             | where neighbours might find it uncomfortable and intrusive
             | if you tried to interact with them.
        
               | kewrkewm53 wrote:
               | I guess it can depend from your life-stage really. As a
               | lonely kid with different interests I really hated living
               | in such a close-knit village, and felt great moving away
               | from there. Yet now after years of living in the city,
               | with a stable relationship and all, I constantly dream of
               | moving to rural countryside and raising my future
               | children there, in a more stable and calm environment.
               | 
               | I believe it's quite natural for young people to go seek
               | new life and opportunities elsewhere from their place of
               | birth, as many of them have always done historically. But
               | having to constantly move in search of them, never
               | finding a place where you could stay permanently, now
               | that really isn't a good way of living for the vast
               | majority of people, even though modern employment market
               | encourages it.
               | 
               | As far Finnish block of flats go, I would argue that
               | rental buildings with high turnover rate have quite low
               | level of trust between neighbours and way more problems,
               | while those owned by their residents have high trust and
               | less issues. Some of it can be attributed to
               | socioeconomic factors of course, but lack of roots and
               | feeling of attachment to rental property is definitely
               | also a factor.
        
               | Mediterraneo10 wrote:
               | > I would argue that rental buildings with high turnover
               | rate ... while those owned by their residents
               | 
               | Note that in the Finnish context (at least in the more-
               | populated south), this isn't a rental/owned distinction.
               | that is, the expectation for privacy also applies to
               | blocks of flats where residents own their flat and may
               | live there for decades.
        
               | kewrkewm53 wrote:
               | True, indeed Finns tend to be fairly privacy conscious
               | anywhere. But in owned flats people still do seem to be
               | more mindful of their neighbours - less antisocial
               | behaviour of all kinds. Of course it's hard to know how
               | much of this is linked to ownership / sense of roots, and
               | how much to socioeconomic factors.
        
               | burntoutfire wrote:
               | People used to depend on neighbors - for example, they
               | helped each other on their farms on a regular basis. Now
               | it's no longer the case and perhaps the dynamics you're
               | describing is the worst of both worlds, where the actual
               | economical need for rich and frequent interactions with
               | neighbors is gone and everything that's left is the
               | nosiness. But, this itself is a result of modernity
               | compartmentalizing people to the degree where they
               | practically never need help from their neighbors.
        
               | Mediterraneo10 wrote:
               | But if you live in a successful welfare state, what need
               | have you for help from your neighbours? The welfare state
               | might help you even better, as it can benefit from
               | economies of scale, and it will not demand anything in
               | return from you except, once you are working a normal
               | job, your taxes. Also, depictions of pre-welfare-state
               | help from neighbours often underscore how that help was
               | always conditional: sexual and racial minorities, women
               | with children out of wedlock, people not members of the
               | locally dominant church or political wing, etc. often
               | found their pleas for help rejected.
        
               | kewrkewm53 wrote:
               | Yet it should be noted that a successful welfare state
               | exists only as long as well-doing people feel enough
               | solidarity and trust towards the poor to pay higher taxes
               | in support of them, and as long as those receiving the
               | welfare benefits genuinely do their best to find
               | employment, at least most of them.
               | 
               | I'm pretty sure Finland won't be a welfare state in 50
               | years. There's just too little left of the solidarity and
               | common identity which helped creating the welfare state.
               | Individualism and diversity seem to be today's trends,
               | not community and social cohesion.
        
               | burntoutfire wrote:
               | Welfare is basically mandatory charity - it's forcing
               | everyone to chip in (via taxes) for the people who can't
               | manage to support themselves.
               | 
               | What I'm talking about is something else entirely - it's
               | a setup where for example the neighbor takes care of your
               | cows and other animals if you go to town for a day or
               | two. Or you help him rebuild his house after a fire. Or,
               | the older kids of your neighbor look after your younger
               | kid, as they play together outside all day. Or somebody
               | is the village's blacksmith and is fixing everyone's iron
               | equipment. Or, you give excess of apples during harvest
               | to someone and expect some other favor from them down the
               | line. Essentially, it's deep interconnectedness with the
               | people around you and essentially an opposite of welfare
               | state, in which you interact not with your neighbors, but
               | with bored and depressed bureucrats at the welfare office
               | and the kafkesque rules that determine whether or not you
               | will be granted the money.
        
               | Mediterraneo10 wrote:
               | Your idealistic vision sounds well and good. But what if
               | you refuse to conform to cisgender- and
               | heteronormativity, but your neighbour is a bigot? What if
               | you are a politically active citizen, but your neighbor's
               | politics are hostile to yours? (Note that the rise of the
               | Nordic welfare states in fact helped to smooth out some
               | political polarization that was hurting those societies
               | in the early 20th century.) In the past, neighbourly help
               | often was refused to people like that. And what if you
               | are a very introverted person who simply doesn't want to
               | interact with people outside your comfort zone?
               | 
               | Also, "bored and depressed bureaucrats" and "Kafkaesque
               | rules" is a caricature, it may not be how others perceive
               | their country's welfare state. Satisfaction in fact may
               | run high.
        
               | burntoutfire wrote:
               | > Your idealistic vision sounds well and good. But what
               | if you refuse to conform to cisgender- and
               | heteronormativity, but your neighbour is a bigot? What if
               | you are a politically active citizen, but your neighbor's
               | politics are hostile to yours?
               | 
               | I don't think people cared much about politics at all
               | before modernity. If anything, the conflicts if any in
               | Europe were centered around religion. As for the
               | minorities, due to people's bigotry, perhaps sometimes
               | they are indeed better off in an alienated modern world.
               | 
               | > Also, "bored and depressed bureaucrats" and "Kafkaesque
               | rules" is a caricature, it may not be how others perceive
               | their country's welfare state. Satisfaction in fact may
               | run high.
               | 
               | It's not a caricature. There are plenty of cases of
               | people who needed help, but for some random stupid reason
               | the bureaucracy refused it (I think even on this forum
               | there is a girl from Germany whose parents died when she
               | was young and, due to a glitch in the system, she was
               | left on her own and forced to support herself via
               | prostitution). The paper shufflers see the pointlessness
               | of the rules they have to obey and the misery it causes
               | (i.e. they knew the girl should get help, but the system
               | just said they can't help her), which is a contributing
               | factor into their potential depression.
        
               | zozbot234 wrote:
               | > Your idealistic vision sounds well and good. But what
               | if you refuse to conform
               | 
               | Then you vote with your feet and move to a community
               | that's friendlier to your values. That community will in
               | turn have strong values of its own, which will help
               | preserve a sense of high social trust within it. It's
               | easy to move out to a competing community, because these
               | quasi-tribal dynamics are inherently limited in scale to
               | a max of about 150 individuals.
        
               | vixen99 wrote:
               | The successful welfare state is _the_ product of your
               | neighbours who tacitly agree to maintain society in many
               | ways including of course paying for it. It 's a mistake
               | to suppose that that stance is a given in perpetuity.
        
               | Mediterraneo10 wrote:
               | Definitely, but the point is that society found a way for
               | neighbours to assist each other, without requiring
               | individual neighbours to know (and carefully maintain
               | friendships with) their individual neighbours. Of course
               | support for this model could possibly weaken over time,
               | but I think many people find the welfare state superior
               | to the old way that took more effort and would only
               | benefit you if you conformed to expectations.
        
           | totetsu wrote:
           | This loud obnoxious Chicago Italian botanist youtuber often
           | makes that point eloquently
           | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTsAFpSXj7Y
        
           | Minor49er wrote:
           | According to the article, we are quite the opposite from
           | being blessed, and are more disconnected now than ever before
        
             | agumonkey wrote:
             | It's a paradox of knowledge Vs knowing or know-how.
        
         | kingsuper20 wrote:
         | I think it's time to turn your view locally. Barring larger
         | disasters, the rest of the world is mostly a simplified model
         | viewed through a computer screen or TV.
         | 
         | Given the current social direction and inertia, maybe it's best
         | for people to begin channeling their own Saint Leibowitz.
        
       | msla wrote:
       | My roots are the roots of all humanity: War, pillage, xenophobia,
       | power-grabs, jealousy and envy, and, finally, decamping to
       | somewhere more promising when the vaunted Land Of My Ancestors
       | crapped out. Multiple times over, given current knowledge about
       | prehistoric human migrations, because I refuse to limit "my
       | roots" to what a 19th Century Scientific Racist would say about
       | them.
        
         | mrphoebs wrote:
         | These roots you profess as being our core are more modern than
         | you think in terms of our overall history as a people. - For
         | waring more complicated and denser societies were required than
         | our hunter gatherere tribes of old
         | 
         | - For Pillaging, and power grabs, jealousy, envy individual
         | ownership was required that didn't emerge until we settled down
         | with farming anywhere at 10,000 bc
         | 
         | >decamping to somewhere more promising when the vaunted Land Of
         | My Ancestors crapped out
         | 
         | This too did not happen until we started settling down and
         | consuming all the local resources until they ran dry. Hunter
         | gatherers foraged from larger areas of land with lower
         | population density like wolves or other big predators of today
         | and in a more sustainable way. I'm sure as tribes prospered and
         | grew they split off exploring for greener pastures. One could
         | argue why they couldn't just have a conflict with their
         | neighbours, it's because beyond a certain size tribes tend to
         | be very violent and dangerous governing structures for their
         | constituents. That's the reason why we don't see geographically
         | contiguous tribes beyond a certain size and they usually move
         | to a more chieftan structure of governance.
         | 
         | I think all of this is a round about way of saying, I don't
         | think there are innate, universal, roots that humans are bound
         | by. Beyond our mammalian firmware, and human firmware, most of
         | the rest would be a software programmed through your
         | experiences with the world, that's why there is such an
         | expansive manifold of how humans can live and behave for better
         | or worse.
        
           | BeFlatXIII wrote:
           | There's a(n in)famous mathematician who once lived in a cabin
           | in the woods who strongly agrees with this position.
        
             | mrphoebs wrote:
             | I don't think mine is a position as much as general facts
             | about pre-history that calls into question the parent
             | commenters position.
             | 
             | Now in the case of the (in)Famous mathematician, he seemed
             | to have made a value judgement based on his interpretation
             | of similar facts and the decay modernity wrought, and so it
             | goes.
        
             | dang wrote:
             | Please let's not do guilt by association.
        
       | ceilingcorner wrote:
       | Deleuze - Guattari and their concept of deterritorialization is
       | useful here. Basically, capital destroys the culture of a local
       | area, rebuilds it, and repeats this process ad infinitum.
       | 
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deterritorialization
       | 
       | This is easy to observe in somewhere like San Francisco. Most
       | traces of culture from the pre-1990 era have been erased
       | completely or have been turned into a theme park. Contemporary SF
       | has almost zero connection to its roots and the sociopolitical
       | consequences speak for themselves.
        
         | zozbot234 wrote:
         | There's nothing about this process that's contingent on
         | capital, and 'capital' is a confused term anyway. The causal
         | factors are both social (generally grouped under the broad term
         | "modernity") and technical (since technical changes might make
         | some forms of d18n more feasible than they would otherwise be).
        
           | ceilingcorner wrote:
           | Social changes and technology aren't dependent on capital?
           | I'd say it's pretty much impossible to divorce modernity from
           | capital.
        
         | vorpalhex wrote:
         | The native Americans frequently conquered each other and
         | rebuilt the conquered lands to fit their empire. It happened
         | with the Greeks and Romans, the Persians, etc and etc.
         | 
         | This isn't new. Places change, and "capital" has nothing to do
         | with it.
        
           | ceilingcorner wrote:
           | The concept is intrinsically linked to globalization and
           | global markets.
        
             | vorpalhex wrote:
             | So you're suggesting the ancient Persians were globalizing
             | to form markets? I mean, while ancient trade was quite a
             | bit bigger than folks tend to give it credit I don't know
             | I'd use the term "globalized".
        
               | ceilingcorner wrote:
               | No, I'm suggesting that the concept is more complicated
               | than your middlebrow dismissal is suggesting.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | helen___keller wrote:
       | The more I re-read and think about this article, the less meaning
       | I find in it. There's a fair bit of lamenting, but it's
       | ultimately difficult to ascertain what exactly is the issue the
       | cause and the consequences of this great uprooting to any further
       | granularity than: things are different than they used to be and
       | it's never going to be the same.
       | 
       | This is true, but to what end. Will we truly end in civil war or
       | anarchy because I don't live on the Italian countryside of the
       | great grandparents I've never met?
       | 
       | As far as the metaphor of rootedness: a plant does not wither and
       | die upon being uprooted if it is planted in new soil in a
       | reasonable amount of time (in fact, international houseplant
       | shipping is done bare-rooted due to phytosanitary regulations).
       | Upon replanting, the plant will go into shock and probably have a
       | few weeks/months/years (depending on the size of the plant) of
       | acclimation where you'll see no new growth. Perhaps it will die
       | if the new environment is not offering good conditions.
       | 
       | In the right conditions, you don't even need the full plant with
       | original roots, you can just take a cutting off many plants and
       | grow new roots in water or moss, then transplant to soil. In the
       | houseplant community, propagating plants through cuttings in this
       | way is much more common than reproduction by seed.
        
         | mrphoebs wrote:
         | While I see your point about the article's inability to
         | cogently driving the reader to a deserved insight, Me thinks
         | you've stretched the metaphor into an analogy and pulled at it
         | until it's been "uprooted" :)
         | 
         | The thought provoking premises/ideas in it at-least, what ever
         | bits and pieces that were locally consistent was some food for
         | thought.
        
       | wbeckler wrote:
       | The question arises, what do you do about the Machine? How do you
       | get roots? If you are looking for answers, a great place to start
       | is "Braiding Sweetgrass" by ecology professor and Native American
       | Robin Wall Kimmerer. I'm an avid reader across many genres, and
       | this is my favorite book. Many people I know have said that this
       | book was the most important book they've read. When I look at my
       | own life, I can see the difference between pre-Braiding
       | Sweetgrass and post.
       | 
       | It is chock full of ways for people to become rooted, even from a
       | cold start. Here's the wikipedia page about the book:
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Braiding_Sweetgrass
        
         | wbeckler wrote:
         | Also of note, even though it was written in 2013, it is today
         | number two on the NYTimes bestseller list, and it's been on the
         | list for 53 weeks. A lot of people are feeling like it's time
         | to grow roots: https://www.nytimes.com/books/best-
         | sellers/paperback-nonfict...
        
         | UncleOxidant wrote:
         | Rootlessness and rootedness are themes that wind through most
         | of Wendell Berry's works as well. His novels Hannah Coulter and
         | Jayber Crow take a good look at what increasing rootlessness
         | does to a community: increasing loneliness and isolation, but
         | also eventual environmental destruction.
        
       | mark_l_watson wrote:
       | Simone Weil gets good coverage on HN. Last year I bought a
       | biography of her after reading a thread on HN. She was an
       | interesting character.
        
         | dang wrote:
         | Which biography? I read Petrement's bio of her a long time ago
         | (they were school friends IIRC).
         | 
         | Her older brother was Andre Weil of course. As a kid she
         | decided she would never have the talent to be a mathematician
         | because he was so good at it... talk about sample bias. The
         | philosopher George Grant said something like (paraphrasing)
         | "that family had intellectual culture on a level undreamt of in
         | North America".
         | 
         | There's a lovely article about the family by Andre's daughter
         | here:
         | 
         |  _My Father Andre Weil (2018) [pdf]_ -
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24492000 - Sept 2020 (7
         | comments)
        
         | elric wrote:
         | "On the abolition of all political parties" is well worth the
         | read. It paints a rather bleak picture of party politics, but
         | when seen through 21st century eyes, it's eerily prophetic.
        
       | guerrilla wrote:
       | As a lifelong nomad, living for decades on the other side of the
       | planet from where I grew up and having studied in worked in
       | nearly a dozen countries, I can't relate to the sentiment. I
       | think it's quite a leap to connect belonging and this rootedness.
       | If I am rooted in anything it'd be in the deeper continuous
       | history and prehistory of the species, the planet and universe.
       | Anything else seems a bit small. I really don't think we're
       | living in anything particularly special either when we consider
       | the bigger picture which includes things like migration out of
       | Africa, the neolithic revolution, Roman conquest or the migration
       | period[1] that followed. On the other hand the original book
       | looks interesting through the lens of criticism of a lack of
       | local community and forced displacement[2].
       | 
       | 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Migration_Period
       | 
       | 2. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Need_for_Roots
        
       | loughnane wrote:
       | > It is for want of self-culture that the superstition of
       | Traveling, whose idols are Italy, England, Egypt, retains its
       | fascination for all educated Americans. They who made England,
       | Italy, or Greece venerable in the imagination did so by sticking
       | fast where they were, like an axis of the earth. In manly hours,
       | we feel that duty is our place. The soul is no traveler; the wise
       | man stays at home, and when his necessities, his duties, on any
       | occasion call him from his house, or into foreign lands, he is at
       | home still; and shall make men sensible by the expression of his
       | countenance, that he goes the missionary of wisdom and virtue,
       | and visits cities and men like a sovereign, and not like an
       | interloper or a valet.
       | 
       | I've posted this before, from Emerson's self-reliance. It is
       | describing geographical roots but the human want for short-term
       | novelty at the cost of building on something more familiar is
       | applicable to all sorts of aspects of life. Moderation is key,
       | and so in circles (like mine) where people crave new experiences
       | rootlessness seems much more common an issue than provincialism.
        
       | vorpalhex wrote:
       | I hate this style of writing, and it can generally be summed up
       | as:
       | 
       | "Don't like the current situation? Well you just need to <do very
       | vague things like find your roots> and things will be fixed!"
       | 
       | The author is of course not alone in writing this kind of
       | meaningless content. "We simply need more Justice!", "We need to
       | ground ourselves", "We need to rediscover God" etc etc.
       | 
       | If you want to write on these lines start by defining, very very
       | tightly, your terms. Be specific in the ill you think your
       | solution addresses. You should probably plainly list cons of your
       | claims.
        
         | agumonkey wrote:
         | With a touch of name dropping
        
         | burntoutfire wrote:
         | > "Don't like the current situation? Well you just need to <do
         | very vague things like find your roots> and things will be
         | fixed!"
         | 
         | I didn't get the impression he said that things can be fixed.
        
       | [deleted]
        
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