[HN Gopher] Unreleased MacBook Schematics Stolen in $50M Ransomw...
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       Unreleased MacBook Schematics Stolen in $50M Ransomware Attack on
       Apple Supplier
        
       Author : sahin
       Score  : 92 points
       Date   : 2021-04-21 12:53 UTC (10 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.macrumors.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.macrumors.com)
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | w-m wrote:
       | Why would these schematics hold such a high value? Apple will do
       | a new generation of laptops, maybe they'll modify the form factor
       | a little bit, maybe they'll update some internal components, new
       | processor. Who could benefit from knowing the exact changes, why
       | would Apple care (millions-of-dollars-care) if they are leaked a
       | few months in advance?
        
         | segfaultbuserr wrote:
         | In my opinion it doesn't worth the ransom price at all. I don't
         | see anything unusual in the schematics - it just looks like one
         | of those laptop schematics online that would definitely leak
         | from the OEM within a year after the machine is released and it
         | would be used by all repair technicians all over the world.
        
         | Cthulhu_ wrote:
         | I think they're mainly betting on Apple wanting to keep the
         | designs a secret until they are ready to reveal them. There's
         | been numerous iPhone design leaks beforehand. I don't believe
         | it actually impacted sales or reputation in any way, but Apple
         | is still being secretive about it.
        
           | high_density wrote:
           | but those leaks weren't 100% believable --- this case, it's
           | different. (or apple can just change their future
           | products...)
        
         | newsclues wrote:
         | Channel sell through may be impacted if new products are known
         | ahead of their sales schedule, resulting in unsold inventory or
         | discounts
        
           | quesera wrote:
           | I would expect the impact to be small -- Apple releases new
           | hardware on a very predictable schedule, and this kind of
           | news is a bit esoteric to influence the casual buyer.
        
             | newsclues wrote:
             | Unless you have a big product change, and consumers realize
             | it would be stupid not to wait for the improvement.
             | 
             | If the information of the new product provides consumers
             | even a reason to wait that could cost Apple dearly, this is
             | why they are notoriously secretive.
        
               | quesera wrote:
               | Right, that's the "Osborne Effect"[0], which is certainly
               | a consideration.
               | 
               | But I think Apple's secrecy is more about maximizing the
               | marketing impact of announcements, and making competitors
               | work harder to predict product directions.
               | 
               | 0: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osborne_effect
        
               | Tagbert wrote:
               | We've already had rumors that closely match what was
               | revealed by the schematics so the impact of this latest
               | release would not be that large.
               | 
               | Most customers are not even aware of possible model
               | changes when they purchase. A reasonably technically
               | adept friend of mine just bought a new iMac the other
               | day. When they told me, they were very happy about and
               | and I had to avoid noticeably wincing. If I had known
               | before the purchase i would have advised them to wait for
               | the upcoming redesigned models with the M-series chips
               | instead of the old stuff. I think that this is how most
               | customers approach purchases. They don't pay attention to
               | rumors and news about newer products.
        
             | inspector-g wrote:
             | > Apple releases new hardware on a very predictable
             | schedule
             | 
             | Tell that to people in the market for pro-level Mac
             | hardware.
        
           | 908B64B197 wrote:
           | Apple is notorious for not keeping a large inventory.
        
         | fredsted wrote:
         | Perhaps other laptop manufacturers would be intersted in
         | knowing how Apple's future machines are built, to give them a
         | competitive edge. I could imagine accessory and case
         | manufacturers would be keen to know about the form factor of
         | future MacBooks. There's also a large ecosystem of Apple news
         | sites that would probably pay for the scoop.
        
           | segfaultbuserr wrote:
           | > _I could imagine accessory and case manufacturers would be
           | keen to know [...] There 's also a large ecosystem of Apple
           | news sites that would probably pay [...]_
           | 
           | The article says, "the group is demanding that _Apple_ pay an
           | undisclosed ransom for the images /schematics they obtained
           | via the supplier by May 1 [...] Until then, the hackers will
           | continue to post new files every day, REvil said on its
           | blog."
           | 
           | The target is only Apple itself, the random group does not
           | accept third-party payment and will make all information
           | public if it's not payed. So I don't think the group wants to
           | sell the information to accessory manufacturers or Apple news
           | sites.
        
             | coldtea wrote:
             | > _The target is only Apple itself, the random group does
             | not accept third-party payment_
             | 
             | Because they're so ethical? If a third party wanted to pay
             | them $50M or even remotely close to that, they'd accept in
             | 0 seconds.
        
             | csharptwdec19 wrote:
             | > So I don't think the group wants to sell the information
             | to accessory manufacturers or Apple news sites.
             | 
             | That wouldn't be a viable business model for the ransom
             | group; Any accessory manufacturer or news site would likely
             | get in a legal entanglement for buying trade secrets.
        
             | fredsted wrote:
             | Thanks for the correction!
        
       | v8dev123 wrote:
       | The author of this Ransomware [0] scrounged through the trash
       | heaps and smoked cigarette butts. He walked 10 km one way to the
       | school. He wore the same clothes for six months. In his youth, in
       | a communal apartment, he didn't eat for two or even three days.
       | 
       | By the way, the guy donates money to open source projects.
       | 
       | Netflix probably interested in his story. He is like Digital
       | Version of Pablo Escobar.
       | 
       | [0] https://therecord.media/i-scrounged-through-the-trash-
       | heaps-...
        
       | PragmaticPulp wrote:
       | Going public with the demands is a risky strategy, as now Apple's
       | response will be publicly known.
       | 
       | If they pay the ransom, it sends a message to everyone with
       | access to confidential Apple manufacturing materials that they
       | are sitting on millions of dollars of ransom material.
       | 
       | I would guess that Apple will refuse to engage in order to avoid
       | incentivizing everyone in their manufacturing chain from trying
       | the same stunt. Instead, they'll go to great lengths to
       | investigate the leak and punish the manufacturer responsible for
       | leaking the material.
       | 
       | Schematics don't hold much an exceptionally high value given that
       | they could be reverse engineered from the product by sufficiently
       | funded individuals. However, it would represent a leak of the
       | details of upcoming products which is something Apple goes to
       | great lengths to avoid.
        
         | Bancakes wrote:
         | Hopefully independent repairmen like Louis Rossmann (who also
         | support Right to Repair) will benefit from leaks.
        
       | bogwog wrote:
       | Maybe if these docs get released it will help independent repair
       | shops.
        
         | wl wrote:
         | Finding these for released computers isn't difficult.
        
         | userbinator wrote:
         | No kidding --- the vast majority of third-party repair
         | information is available only because of lax security, and it's
         | far more detailed that what the companies will ever willingly
         | release.
         | 
         | Laptop schematics are still relatively easy to find these days,
         | but unfortunately the search results are flooded with people
         | trying to sell them; they used to be even more freely available
         | several years ago. (Google tends to want to ignore the word
         | "schematic" in a search query, unless it is in quotes. Make of
         | that what you will...)
        
         | cigaser wrote:
         | Or they will get branded as terrorists.
        
         | gruez wrote:
         | My impression is that they already have it... somehow. Louis
         | rossmann frequently shows schematics on his youtube channel
         | when doing repairs.
        
           | Workaccount2 wrote:
           | I always assumed those were Chinese reverse engineered. They
           | do some absolutely insane reverse engineering over there.
        
             | segfaultbuserr wrote:
             | Not reverse engineered. Most laptop schematics, including
             | MacBook ones are definitely leaked original schematics from
             | the OEM. Many have the OEM logo, internal part numbers and
             | engineering notes written on it.
        
               | sitkack wrote:
               | My Amiga came with fold out schematics in the manual.
               | Arguably, manufacturers should be required for to provide
               | them for every device sold.
        
               | drewzero1 wrote:
               | I'm pretty sure Apple manuals used to include schematics,
               | before they made the Macintosh and decided users
               | shouldn't be able to open their computers without special
               | tools.
        
             | dylan604 wrote:
             | At some point, you get so good at reverse engineering, you
             | no longer need to try to engineer an original from scratch.
             | Why bother? Just wait for the new thing, reverse it, then
             | make it yourself a year later. Hell, the "new" is being
             | sent to you anyways to manufacture, so it's easier to just
             | "request" the plans from the company making rather than
             | doing the reversing.
        
           | robertoandred wrote:
           | yeah, he and his shop are really shady
        
             | poyu wrote:
             | Can you expand on the shady part a bit more? I'm curious to
             | hear about it.
        
             | Karsteski wrote:
             | Why do you say this?
        
       | Invictus0 wrote:
       | The docs seem to show the return of the SD card slot on the 13
       | inch macbook pro as well as a new charging port--likely the
       | return of MagSafe.
        
         | dylan604 wrote:
         | That alone would cause me to believe these to be suspect. Apple
         | has never relented on removing of ports.
        
           | Invictus0 wrote:
           | I downloaded the files myself, there is extensive and
           | definitely legit electrical documentation with several pages
           | on MagSafe and SD connectors, as well as references to
           | projects called Monaco, Viper, and Iceman.
        
             | dylan604 wrote:
             | It's not inconceivable to have false flags / canary trap
             | type of documents.
        
       | yftsui wrote:
       | These documents appears to be just PDF schematics and electrical
       | specifications, not even the real files that can be opened by
       | Cadence Orcad or Allegro, anybody making a minimum wage in
       | Quanta's production line have access to some of those files. If
       | you are patient it is quite trivial to accumulate those documents
       | and the tactic quite lame.
       | 
       | As someone who has audited Quanta in my previous jobs, I am
       | constantly being surprised that these documents are leaked so
       | infrequently. A "Project" in Quanta start with the customer send
       | in their schematics and mechanical drawings to the Quanta "R&D"
       | engineers so they could redraw it to enable production in Quanta,
       | aka EVT; then it is DVT for multi-sourcing of components and
       | compatibility and EMC compliance, then it is PVT. Engineers
       | usually transform the documents to PDF files and upload to the
       | company's document center, production line operators will
       | download those PDF files and copy it here and there, maybe even
       | with a USB thumb drive to copy it to a production station running
       | Windows 98 and Adobe Reader with no network access. The factories
       | get so many projects that the leaked document maybe is for a
       | product that already died in EVT.
       | 
       | It is also amazing to me that those PDF iPhone Schematics always
       | leak to the 3rd party repairman after sometime it is announced,
       | apparently there is an invisible food chain. But for this one,
       | REvil is simply trying to brand themselves instead of the ransom.
        
       | tristanj wrote:
       | Looks like another corporation will soon be joining the crypto
       | buying frenzy. That's bullish news for Bitcoin!
        
       | bombcar wrote:
       | If you want your random paid isn't being discreet about it a
       | better plan?
        
         | FDSGSG wrote:
         | They all start discreet, it's only when the company refuses to
         | pay or respond that they go to the media.
        
       | voisin wrote:
       | Better strategy: flood the market with accurate looking but
       | incorrect schematics. Dilute the thieves.
        
         | dylan604 wrote:
         | This was my thought when hearing the plans show them adding
         | ports back. Thats so not Apple to do that.
        
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       (page generated 2021-04-21 23:04 UTC)