[HN Gopher] The Culture of Whales
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       The Culture of Whales
        
       Author : pseudolus
       Score  : 83 points
       Date   : 2021-04-20 12:36 UTC (1 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.npr.org)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.npr.org)
        
       | cratermoon wrote:
       | Thalassophobia warning
        
       | bserge wrote:
       | Oh, I thought this was about the people who spend thousands of
       | dollars in games.
       | 
       | Ridiculous that these creatures are still being hunted. Just,
       | why?
        
       | stock_toaster wrote:
       | Based on the title, I expected an article about the habits of
       | super wealthy gamblers, and was pleasantly surprised to find out
       | it is about actual whales. Nice.
        
         | tartoran wrote:
         | I hear you, I thought the same. Are you trading by any chance?
         | Your handle suggests so. I see those whales as massive
         | concentrations of wealth whose action is directly seen on the
         | charts, e.g when they buy/sell the stock price rises/drops with
         | them
        
           | stock_toaster wrote:
           | I agree. In most industries (finance, mobile gaming,
           | gambling) where "Whales" are common, their presence certainly
           | leads companies competing for their attention (read: money)
           | to very perverse incentives.
        
           | [deleted]
        
       | frumper wrote:
       | Nature really is wonderful is so many ways. The harvesting of
       | ocean life really seems to be one of the things the world has
       | made great strides towards better management in the past 100
       | years, yet there seems to be so many pressing issues.
        
         | jorts wrote:
         | Ocean wildlife stock has dropped dramatically in the last 100
         | years and continues to drop as we scrape everything we can out
         | of it. The future looks bleak in this regard.
        
         | ska wrote:
         | > has made great strides towards better management in the past
         | 100 years,
         | 
         | This really doesn't seem to be true. In particular, things are
         | much worse for most fisheries over the last 25 years.
        
           | frumper wrote:
           | They are worse recently, but some good things were done in
           | the 20th century. Fisheries have been overfished for much of
           | human civilization and we have recovered some of those. We
           | are better at enforcing regulations and willing to enact new
           | ones, though doubtless there are still problems.
           | 
           | Whaling protections have been put in place and despite
           | several offenders the situation is better than it was 100-200
           | years ago.
        
       | WORMS_EAT_WORMS wrote:
       | Fun facts:
       | 
       | - Over a thousand whales are killed each year despite it being
       | ruled illegal "for profit" 35 years ago.
       | 
       | - The biggest offenders are supposedly Japan, Iceland, and Norway
       | who believe they have rights for different objective reasons.
       | 
       | - Whale oil, blubber, and cartilage is used for various
       | supplement or sometimes the meat is consumed via traditional
       | dishes.
       | 
       | - To kill whales, you use an exploding harpoon that can take a
       | half hour to kill. Sometimes multiple shots are needed.
       | 
       | People are cruel. The bar for how we treat life and choose which
       | animals can die makes no sense whatsoever.
       | 
       | More: https://us.whales.org/our-4-goals/stop-whaling/
        
         | bserge wrote:
         | Humans will kill anything, often for stupid reasons. Really
         | parasitic behaviour tbh.
        
         | dang wrote:
         | This doesn't have anything directly to do with the specific
         | topic, which is the _culture_ of whales. Please don 't take HN
         | threads on generic tangents.
         | 
         | On HN we're interested in diffs [1], what's specifically
         | interesting about an article. Generic tangents suck threads
         | away from that into the gravitational field of the nearest
         | large topic, sort of like a spaceship flying too close to a
         | black hole [2]. The generic topics are larger, more popular,
         | and much more repetitive [3]. Repetition is bad for curiosity
         | [4], and curiosity is what we're optimizing for here [5].
         | Typically the generic themes are also more sensational and
         | inflammatory, which is doubly not what we're looking for.
         | 
         | It's super tempting for threads to hop into the next-adjacent
         | generic orbit and often they do this repeatedly. Once a
         | discussion reaches "People are cruel", that's a good example of
         | a black hole. No light is going to come out of such a thread.
         | 
         | [1]
         | https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&so...
         | 
         | [2]
         | https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...
         | 
         | [3]
         | https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sor...
         | 
         | [4]
         | https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&so...
         | 
         | [5]
         | https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sor...
         | 
         | p.s. None of this is to say that the generic themes are
         | unimportant. They're frequently far _more_ important. But a
         | site like this needs to stick to what it 's for. Also, we like
         | whales.
        
           | WORMS_EAT_WORMS wrote:
           | Fair enough, thanks for added perspective.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | yboris wrote:
         | To follow up with that, we are exceptionally cruel through our
         | factory farms (CAFO) which subject animals to conditions that
         | would put you into federal jail for years if you did it to a
         | dog.
         | 
         | I strongly encourage everyone to consume less meat (because
         | individual actions matter - the market is responsive/elastic
         | and fewer animals will experience torture in the future if you
         | purchase less animal products).
        
           | bollu wrote:
           | I don't believe that my individual choice actually matters;
           | What do I read to change my opinion?
        
             | lasfter wrote:
             | I'm usually of the same mind, but this is one scenario
             | where individual action actually can help. For example,
             | driving less won't significantly affect climate change even
             | if most people do it, since the biggest contributors are
             | industrial processes.
             | 
             | On the other hand, nearly all of the animal cruelty from
             | factory farms stems from people buying meat from them. So
             | if most people eat less meat, then factory farms actually
             | will suffer.
        
             | SuoDuanDao wrote:
             | Any introduction to chaos theory should change your mind,
             | but it convinces you that your actions have consequences at
             | the cost of never being sure what they are.
        
             | yboris wrote:
             | There are people who have tried to investigate this
             | thoroughly. My understanding is that there is a direct
             | correlation between your actions an the supply.
             | 
             | > "If someone gives up 1 lb of chicken, total consumption
             | falls by 0.76lb in expectation."
             | 
             | https://forum.effectivealtruism.org/posts/fZp6Fpowmd5a8Lu2w
             | /...
             | 
             | Directly: https://reducing-suffering.org/comments-on-
             | compassion-by-the...
             | 
             | The mechanism is simple: if the stores are 100% responsive
             | to your demand, your purchase directly affects supply. If
             | they are not 100% perfect, they still have a mechanism
             | through which they buy in bulk. So, roughly speaking, you
             | might have a 1% chance of triggering a batch order for an
             | extra 100 lbs when you purchase 1 lb of meat. And the same
             | goes up the supply chain.
        
           | agumonkey wrote:
           | We need to find a compensating activity so people don't think
           | about eating. It can be a double win, less consumption and
           | more social activity / bond.
        
           | OnlyOneCannolo wrote:
           | I'm lucky to be able to get almost all of my meat from local,
           | pasture-only sources (no feeder lots or anything like that).
           | There are alternatives to abstaining from meat. The more we
           | support them, the more widely available they will become.
        
             | yboris wrote:
             | Given that > 99% of all meat consumed in the US comes from
             | factory farms, it is currently not feasible for the vast
             | majority of the US population to do what you are lucky to
             | be able to do.
             | 
             | It's great to hear there are still farms that care about
             | animal welfare, but it's a challenge with a race-to-the-
             | bottom where profits are inversely proportional with animal
             | welfare.
             | 
             | Specifically, there is a greater incentive to make
             | consumers think that the animals have good welfare, than to
             | actually implement the better welfare. Unless we have
             | mandatory web-cameras on all factories, you're just going
             | on trust of people (who have all the immense financial
             | incentives to lie).
        
               | OnlyOneCannolo wrote:
               | I'm saying that if you ever have the choice to support
               | ethical options or abstain completely, don't feel bad
               | about supporting.
               | 
               | I hope they continue to grow, that more people become
               | more conscientious, and that regulations improve.
        
           | jjtheblunt wrote:
           | Unless you're Michael Vick, in which case the NFL gives him a
           | high paying job, i've noticed and heard countless people
           | remark seems conspicuous.
        
             | jgwil2 wrote:
             | He spent 21 months in federal prison.
        
       | zeeshanqureshi wrote:
       | Whales are fascinating animals.
       | 
       | On a somewhat related side note I absolutely love how the Ondes
       | Martenot can sometimes sound like whales underwater.
        
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       (page generated 2021-04-21 23:01 UTC)