[HN Gopher] The Endless Acid Banger: algorithmic self-composing ...
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       The Endless Acid Banger: algorithmic self-composing acid techno
       music
        
       Author : clomond
       Score  : 993 points
       Date   : 2021-04-20 04:28 UTC (18 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.vitling.xyz)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.vitling.xyz)
        
       | noisy_boy wrote:
       | For a more chill/relaxing vibe, turn down the BPM to between
       | 20-25%.
        
       | mekkkkkk wrote:
       | This made me want to grind lap times in Wipeout 2097. The
       | soundtrack and atmosphere in that game was really similar to
       | this, and like nothing I'd heard or seen before at the time. It
       | probably shaped my taste in so many ways. Fond memories!
       | 
       | EDIT: For those sharing the nostalgia, it turns out that the
       | composer of the soundtrack, Cold Storage, remastered it and put
       | it up on streaming services. It's a two part EP called
       | SlipStream.
        
         | gilbetron wrote:
         | I was going to write a post saying I was glad a "later" wipeout
         | game had the effect as the original had on me, then I looked
         | into it and saw that Wipeout 2097 was called Wipeout XL in
         | North American, and was the exact game I played :D So, I'll
         | just echo what you said: the soundtrack was foundational in my
         | adult music tastes :)
        
         | 3dee wrote:
         | Yes, CoLD SToRAGE has a lot of nice links to tracks on his
         | website: http://www.coldstorage.org.uk/
        
           | cheschire wrote:
           | His bandcamp page has a lot of varied stuff, including his
           | recent stab at improv ambient he knocked out in about 4 hours
           | of work on this album:
           | https://coldstorage.bandcamp.com/album/drift
        
         | nullify88 wrote:
         | Nothing gives me the tingles like listening to Sasha - Xpander
         | from the WipeOut 3 soundtrack.
        
           | hnlmorg wrote:
           | It feels weird reading "from the WipeOut 3 soundtrack" in
           | your post, as if Sasha is some largely unknown artist or that
           | Xpander is a hidden B-side.
           | 
           | I'd be surprised if there is a single person from the 90s/00s
           | era who listened to electronic music who didn't know of
           | Sasha.
           | 
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_awards_and_nominations.
           | ..
        
             | nullify88 wrote:
             | Yeah, I wrote that as a 11 year old me when I heard that
             | track on WipeOut3 for the first time. I was still
             | discovering electronic music via a bunch of unwanted
             | Euphoria compliation albums. Wipeout3 was often played in
             | both my PlayStation and CD player.
        
       | samcodes wrote:
       | well this really takes me back to fiddling with FruityLoops in
       | all my spare time in my teens. very fun, and I love the code
        
       | strangelove026 wrote:
       | This is absolutely amazing. I love acid techno and this is such a
       | cool and creative project.
        
       | playingchanges wrote:
       | Just want to say as someone who does a lot of hardware techno
       | jamming this was SO FUN.
        
       | severak_cz wrote:
       | This reminds me I actually wanted to implement these wind chimes
       | which are hanged from trees in parks.
       | 
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wind_chime
        
       | hannes0x21 wrote:
       | another feature request: i really miss distortion!
        
       | dariusj18 wrote:
       | I feel like this should come preinstalled in every car radio.
        
       | prennert wrote:
       | It needs more bass.
        
       | snakeboy wrote:
       | Setting the clock BPM to minimum sets a calm working pace, more
       | like a video game soundtrack or something. Awesome project!
        
       | cobanov wrote:
       | it's sounds like discovery channel's how it works show
        
       | hnlmorg wrote:
       | I grew up DJing records by Dave Clarke, Josh Wink, Green Velvet
       | and such like, so this is right up my street.
        
       | johanneskanybal wrote:
       | amazing.
        
       | mackman wrote:
       | Anyone have any recommendations for reading material for an
       | experienced programmer that wants to learn how to start to write
       | procedural music? My kid is both learning to program and learning
       | to sequence music I would love to be able to teach him how to
       | combine the two. The last time I did any procedural audio
       | generation was back in 1995 and I'm sure things have changed
       | since then.
        
         | lytefm wrote:
         | https://sonic-pi.net/ might be interesting
        
           | makeworld wrote:
           | Sonic Pi is great. Another option with probably a harder
           | learning curve is Tidal Cycles.
           | 
           | https://tidalcycles.org/
        
       | slver wrote:
       | I remember installing ReBirth on my PC many years ago, and so
       | amazed that it can emulate two whole friggin' TB303 analog
       | machines, with a 909 drum kit too, just using the CPU. Which was
       | pegged to 99% during playback.
       | 
       | And here we are today, the same thing is running in my browser
       | and taking 2% CPU.
        
         | bennysomething wrote:
         | Yep rebirth was amazing. Even more amazing was Reason from the
         | same company I think.
         | 
         | Wasted so much time on reason.
        
           | conradfr wrote:
           | It still exists, a new version has just been released.
           | 
           | They went the subscription route though (if you look hard
           | enough at the website you can still buy the software).
        
           | dylanz wrote:
           | Propellerhead, right? I remember opening Reason for the first
           | time (I had no experience with music hardware) and was
           | completely lost. I played around with knobs for a long time
           | trying to make sounds with limited luck. Then I clicked
           | something and the entire rack flipped around and there were
           | patch cables hanging there that I could plug anywhere. I
           | think I plugged things into different holes, the one sound I
           | had going stopped, then I quit the program :)
           | 
           | I eventually ended up reading the manual and getting the hang
           | of it. My friend turned me on to it, and he had it mastered.
           | He produced house music and frequently toured the world with
           | Mark Farina back in the day.
        
         | petecooper wrote:
         | Rebirth was discontinued and released for free download in the
         | Rebirth Museum, if you can find a genuine copy I think it still
         | works on Windows 7 and Mac OS 9.
         | 
         | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/ReBirth_RB-338
        
       | Draken93 wrote:
       | Amazing project, I am impressed!
       | 
       | I never listened to this style of music before. I honestly do not
       | really like it. BUT: Listening to this music makes me focuse very
       | hard on my work. I love it!
        
         | mjgs wrote:
         | You just need some glow sticks.
        
       | cobanov wrote:
       | it's sounds like discovery channel's how it's made show
        
       | parisianka wrote:
       | Love your sound experiments
        
       | minikomi wrote:
       | This has an extra layer to it in that a lot of original
       | experimentation was done with the 303 generating random patterns
       | by removing the batteries for a period of time to reset the
       | memory
        
       | bicchiere wrote:
       | very cool
        
       | rjh29 wrote:
       | Couple observations:
       | 
       | 1. The whole thing is done in 1000 lines of code after
       | unobfuscation (including 808 and 303 emulation, sequencer, random
       | generation, UI) - technically it's quite impressive.
       | 
       | 2. Part of why it makes such good patterns seems to be reliance
       | on octaves. The patterns usually contain at least 50% or more of
       | the same note repeated, across one or more octaves, and
       | coinciding with rhythmic beats. Even when the notegen set is just
       | F2, F2, F3, F4, G#4 (mostly all the same note) it's quite
       | listenable.
        
         | joshka wrote:
         | https://github.com/vitling/acid-banger/blob/main/src/pattern...
        
         | amatecha wrote:
         | Years ago I used to hand-sequence synth lines like that and
         | skipping between octaves was the "instant hack" to get
         | compelling patterns by adding dynamism to the sound without
         | making the melody itself too complicated. You could just jump
         | around multiple octaves for literally two notes and have some
         | pretty awesome sounding stuff. Heck, that's what an arpeggiator
         | does, but honestly, doing it by hand can pretty often get
         | better results. Combine with filter envelope key following for
         | even more interesting sound on an otherwise "simple" pattern :)
        
       | motohagiography wrote:
       | This guy's stuff is next level, wow.
       | 
       | The top level site vitling.xyz has a large set of complete
       | executed concepts like this. Unbelievably cool.
        
         | mitjak wrote:
         | jesus, seriously. a prolific human.
        
       | dboreham wrote:
       | Genius.
        
       | rcarmo wrote:
       | Cute. All we need is for it to have maybe a couple more tracks
       | and an option to instead randomize each track every 3-6 full
       | bars, and I can leave it on all day...
        
       | technofiend wrote:
       | If anyone is looking for raw data they could potentially cut down
       | to a training set of data, Marc Rebillet aka "loop daddy"
       | regularly improvises songs by incrementally creating and then
       | overlaying small one to three bar loops. He doesn't specifically
       | make acid / techno music but some of it is EDM.
       | 
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marc_Rebillet
        
       | dekhn wrote:
       | To me, the end goal is to be able to procedurally generate live
       | Grateful Dead (fair amount of training data) and Sphongle (not as
       | much, but fairly repetitive).
        
       | meowface wrote:
       | This generates much better patterns than any other music web
       | project I've tried. Awesome work.
       | 
       | If you had no music experience, snuck into a club, impersonated a
       | DJ, and just pressed play on this, I think even without touching
       | it, no one would notice anything's amiss. If you messed around
       | with it occasionally, you'd probably get hired back. (And that's
       | a compliment to the app; definitely not a diss of acid techno.)
        
         | aeon97 wrote:
         | Some of the patterns sound really good, but can you change the
         | bpm? I think a DJ set at the same bpm all night would be kind
         | of boring. I love acid techno, but I mix it into other
         | (sub)genres, and have never heard a set where it was only acid
         | techno. That said, it sounds like some of the drum patterns are
         | more electro than techno, which is nice and provides some
         | variety.
        
           | tomglynch wrote:
           | Bottom left next to the meter is the clock - turn it to
           | change BPM.
        
           | samstave wrote:
           | https://i.imgur.com/WfI2Yka.png
           | 
           | THere is a clock dial for bpm... does that solve your issue?
        
         | sneak wrote:
         | > _snuck into a club, impersonated a DJ, and just pressed play
         | on this, I think even without touching it, no one would notice
         | anything 's amiss._
         | 
         | That very much depends on the club.
        
           | Cthulhu_ wrote:
           | I mean I don't even know if people actually listen to acid or
           | if it's a genre of music that online projects like this seem
           | to latch on to. I don't recall (but I'm pretty insular) it
           | being a thing anywhere.
           | 
           | Trance/dance music, sure. I guess acid is a subgenre?
        
             | tcpekin wrote:
             | I can confirm acid techno is alive and well in Berlin. Lots
             | of good music coming out and DJs playing it.
        
               | DiabloD3 wrote:
               | https://www.youtube.com/c/H%C3%96RBERLIN
               | 
               | They have a lot of DJs from this type of genre.
        
               | kortex wrote:
               | That tiled room gets me through the workday. In that ilk:
               | Fear n Loathing. Art of Minimal. Trippy Cat Music.
               | Beamer. A bit further from that sound but still great for
               | coding: Cercle, Radio Intense, Cafe de Anatolia.
        
               | tcpekin wrote:
               | My favorite acid mixes have been Dr. Rubenstein's
               | Quarantine series:
               | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0XYcwN4wXhI
        
             | Rastonbury wrote:
             | Acid is probably the most trending subgenre of techno these
             | days, just cuz you've never heard of it...
        
               | lookalike74 wrote:
               | You don't know what you're talking about, here's a
               | foundational acid track that's probably older than you...
               | https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PbGTj9Yb_x4
        
               | emptyfile wrote:
               | YOU are the ignorant one if you don't know that acid is
               | very much alive and kicking today.
        
               | feu wrote:
               | Nothing that the parent comment said implied that acid is
               | a new genre. They were saying it's very popular now,
               | which is true.
        
             | stinos wrote:
             | Yes it's a subgenre, and yes it's a thing and has been for
             | a couple of decades. And it even has its own
             | subgenres/'mixins' like acidcore or goa with acid
             | influences (not sure that one has a name).
             | 
             | Check e.g. https://everynoise.com/engenremap.html
        
             | emptyfile wrote:
             | For being an (insular) world traveller, you offer scant
             | information.
        
         | bamboozled wrote:
         | Not really into this type of music, but I'd notice, it sounds
         | pretty average.
         | 
         | It's a cool project and concept, but people in the know would
         | notice.
        
           | teachingassist wrote:
           | I like this genre, but I don't find this generated music
           | satisfying. My brain is anticipating some 'rule of three',
           | which I don't feel it's following and I therefore feel
           | disappointment.
           | 
           | I'm expecting it to switch an established pattern up (more
           | than it does) on the third repeat, just as I get used to it,
           | and to have fractal-like layers of patterns, which I didn't
           | observe.
        
             | alisonatwork wrote:
             | I agree. This is a very cool project, mainly because the
             | actual synth sounds are good, so it sounds like a
             | legitimate live acid musician hitting the good old
             | "randomize" button on their 303 clone, but it still sounds
             | a bit like a carefully managed "randomize".
             | 
             | I think what makes it work for people is that it evokes
             | that kind of IDM-ish hipster acid music where hearing
             | something a bit unmusical without a 4-to-the-floor
             | "release" is acceptable. But I'm not sure this system would
             | have as much luck putting together an actual "acid banger"
             | like Lochi's London Acid City, Purple Plejade's Blanche,
             | Hardfloor's Acperience etc.
             | 
             | The problem is that a computer can't know when it really
             | came up with a "banger" of a sequence. When you have a real
             | musician, they can sense when a particular sequence really
             | "clicks" for people, somehow it just accents in places that
             | sound cool. Then they can move ahead with that sequence,
             | tease it and build it and bring it to resolution. This is
             | the holy grail of generated music, I think, to somehow get
             | a computer to a place where it can recognize whatever that
             | quality is.
        
             | spacemanmatt wrote:
             | > I like this genre, but I don't find this generated music
             | satisfying.
             | 
             | Same. You could generate a bunch of random notes using
             | realistic string instrument samples, and be just as far
             | from Bach.
        
         | smoe wrote:
         | I have listened (so no touch or watching it) for a couple of
         | minutes and while the patterns all sounded fine (no an expert
         | in that genre but have been to a number of raves) in isolation
         | many of the changes didn't feel intentional and at times
         | outright jarring without any transition leading up to it.
         | 
         | I reckon in a club situation you would play the patterns for
         | longer which would make it less notable. I do think it is quite
         | impressive work, but overall it still sounds to too much just
         | like switching between patterns without any bigger "musical
         | arc" (not sure what the correct terminology I'm looking for is)
         | in mind. But to be fair that is what a whole lot of peoples
         | calling themselves producers sound like as well.
        
         | Rochus wrote:
         | Maybe besides https://openai.com/blog/musenet/? The present
         | solution is rather primitive; just a bit of random with time
         | and scale quantisation; but some people seem to be quickly
         | satisfied.
        
         | stinos wrote:
         | _no one would notice anything 's amiss_
         | 
         | I doubt it. Perhaps you were lucky with the piece you listened
         | to, but I checked it for 5 minutes and the off-beat things it
         | generates are pretty much unheard of in this genre. Not that
         | there's no off-beat produced by humans, but it doesn't sound
         | anything like this. Simply because what the machine is doing
         | here brakes the rhythm too much, making it harder to dance on,
         | and after all that's what this music is for.
        
           | diydsp wrote:
           | This is a rant, from someone who's been playing music for 3
           | decades, rock, electronic, and classical. Also I've been
           | meditating a lot. I started realizing recently the huge
           | separation between thoughts about music and music itself,
           | just as there is between thoughts and action. The world we
           | live in, of temporary digital media, is a mirror of our
           | thought processes. Our whole modern day and environs are
           | spent in thoughts and media, with almost no action...
           | particularly since we started working at home and ordering
           | food in!
           | 
           | Upon seeing a web page's "impressionistic
           | interpretation/reduction" of a decade or so of music driven
           | primarily by economic and social constraints (warehouse
           | techno), it's so easy for people to pile up thoughts. It's so
           | inexpensive and risk-free for people to say, "oh yeah, that
           | there is good techno/acid," without _trying it out_ on a
           | dancefloor, without having listened to hours and hours of it.
           | 
           | There has strangely been a long-term dream of computer
           | scientists to replace composition. To "spit out" songs as
           | someone put it. It's usually too scary to ask ourselves
           | "why?" because it usually is a game of validating one's own
           | mind against others' impressions. For some reason, auto-
           | composition seems like some kind of holy grail, but of what?!
           | Saving money buying music? A fantasy of abundance? A kind of
           | "gotcha!" that a pure thought-person has outwitted a silly
           | irl composer? What do you actually get for creating an
           | intelligence that wins a Turing test? You certainly don't get
           | sweaty friends deliriously dancing on drugs at 3 am. You
           | typically just get another social promotion in the direction
           | of aiding greater powers at their control over the world. Is
           | that what it's about? Closing ourselves off from human
           | musical expression in exchange for increased financial
           | standing? Get a job bc you proved you can fool some of them
           | of the time? To validate a work ethic that regards music as
           | frivolous by demonstrating that it can be simulated
           | accurately enough?
           | 
           | It's not obvious that every decent musical piece is a more
           | complex and interesting story than its notes. That every new
           | synthesis engine can only ever interpolate its inputs as
           | opposed to incorporate new ideas and more importantly
           | _experiences._ Experiences that relate to a person and group.
           | We all have a sublime attraction to the story of Beethoven -
           | to having been giving a profound gift and slowly lost part of
           | it. We look for ourselves in his work, where did he break
           | down? How did he handle his unfortunate circumstances?
           | 
           | We perceive music in terms of passion - what it cost an
           | individual in hours of life, blisters, health, money,
           | dedication, etc. We revere Kurt Cobain for pouring out
           | everything he had into his music. If a computer program wrote
           | "You Know You're Right," and we knew there wasn't actually
           | someone real who "never failed to feel....PAAAAAAAAIN," it
           | wouldn't matter to us. Because we're all diffractions of some
           | crazy spiritual force no one understands, but it seems like
           | music is a form of "interdigiation" between us. So why plug
           | our own listening energy into a random number generator and
           | call it good? With respect to ppl saying, "now we can have
           | acid anywhere, anytime," I say, "dial up great mixes on
           | youtube, etc." There are real DJs who put together songs in
           | streams that have even greater meanings than the individual
           | songs - bc, again, music is more than just individuals, it's
           | a collective act.
           | 
           | And no matter what the tech of the day is, it will always be
           | applied as if it were to be the "final," perfect means of
           | autocomposing - remember fractal music in the 90s? PCA
           | synthesis in the early 2000s? So as a fun programming
           | challenge, i say to people, sure, write these programs. But
           | why must we persist in proclaiming their relevance to our
           | active lives when they only resonate in our thoughts.
        
             | alisonatwork wrote:
             | I think you have a point that there is a certain type of
             | music fan that really does want to make a human connection
             | with the artist through the music, and algorithmic
             | composition may never really be enough for those fans.
             | 
             | But it's also the case that one of the things that makes
             | electronic music appealing to a lot of people is that it
             | generally doesn't have the cult of personality that exists
             | in other genres. For sure, some parts of the scene ended up
             | idolizing DJs instead, but I'd say a significant subset of
             | techno fans are specifically not interested in the artistic
             | motivation behind a piece and are instead just looking to
             | hear some cool sounds.
             | 
             | That's why electronic music is a great place to experiment
             | with algorithmic composition, and that's why all these
             | people joking about ravers dancing to washing machines
             | because they're so drugged up kinda missed the point of
             | what we liked about the music in the first place. It's not
             | about telling a story, or communicating an emotion, it's
             | just about creating a cool sound. It doesn't need to be
             | more complicated than that. If a piece of machinery can
             | create a cool sound incidentally, why wouldn't we dance to
             | it?
             | 
             | Of course, as I commented elsewhere, I don't think this
             | particular example is especially notable. The music it
             | generates is not much more interesting than what you'd get
             | if you anyway just hit a "random pattern" button on a 303
             | clone that lets you constrain the result to a scale. But
             | that doesn't matter, because it's still a nifty project and
             | a bit of fun.
             | 
             | If you really are searching for the true intent of the
             | artist, then you have that with algorithmic composition
             | too. Click round the rest of this developer/artist's site
             | and you'll find lots of little projects and experiments
             | with music and software creations that - even if you don't
             | see them as art, are at the very least the product of a
             | creative hobbyist. There's your passion!
        
               | bckr wrote:
               | > What do you actually get for creating an intelligence
               | that wins a Turing test?
               | 
               | > it's just about creating a cool sound.
               | 
               | I specifically want to create novel hard/dark/minimal
               | techno bangers with similar effort to curating a
               | playlist.
               | 
               | I want a toy that makes music that will keep me and my
               | friends up into the wee hours, without the toil, without
               | the bleeding egoic labor.
               | 
               | And I want people with good taste to have the same
               | ability without putting thousands of hours into learning
               | music theory and arcane details about DAWs and
               | synthesizers and other... Traditional... Tools.
               | 
               | I want to twist the nips of a sexy thump machine and get
               | a good feedback loop[0] going between jerky knees and the
               | stupid-smart NPC musician in my laptop.
               | 
               | I want to spend the night in a tent with eyes that
               | digests my tribe with its acid colors and plays us like
               | so many marionettes until, exhausted, we cut the power
               | and go home. And there wasn't a Guru making it happen, no
               | Chad waiting his turn on the deck, just sound, lightning,
               | and loving this f'n party, man.
               | 
               | The other points about writing songs that express
               | humanity, and the inventor's hubris and all that hit the
               | mark. But deleting the boundary between bedroom
               | production and the rave itself... I'd be hard pressed to
               | imagine anything more fun and exciting.
               | 
               | [0]https://vimeo.com/36579366
        
             | stinos wrote:
             | I get what you're saying, but in my opinion the general
             | line of thought sounds a tad too pessimistic or maybe even
             | fatalistic. Perhaps drivent by recent pandemic events? In
             | short: I don't think that one or more people making music,
             | live or otherwise, and others joining to enjoy/dance/go-
             | wild/pick-your-poison on that music is _ever_ going to
             | disappear.
        
             | titzer wrote:
             | I just checked out your YouTube channel. Very neat
             | instruments!
        
             | polypodiopsi wrote:
             | 3am and really dancing.. not just doing repetitive motions
             | on the straight pulse but living trough an embodied
             | composition based in reception. the feel when u understand
             | the music with your whole body so well that you can
             | anticipate whats next, so you can even rythmically
             | juxtapose it with what you dance and all that in a life-
             | form with others sharing this experience as value in and of
             | itself. damn i miss dancing. stupid covid
        
             | scriptkiddy wrote:
             | I think I'm interpreting algorithmic composition in a
             | different way than you are. I am someone who has always
             | been profoundly affected by music. This is to the point
             | where some songs consistently give me frision or make my
             | eyes water up. Music, for me, is a profoundly emotional
             | experience. I was just never very good at creating music;
             | that is, until a few years ago.
             | 
             | I got into making music using DAWs and learned a lot of
             | theory. I focus on making Synthwave/Outrun style music. Not
             | the most technically complex genre sure, but there is a lot
             | of room for creativity as the genre isn't very well
             | defined. I also enjoy how Synthwave isn't really about
             | musical complexity or technicality; instead, it's about the
             | atmosphere. It's nostalgia for a time that never existed in
             | a sense.
             | 
             | Now, all of this to say that I'm still not a great
             | musician. I've been learning banjo for the past year, and
             | getting pretty good at it.
             | 
             | I'll get to the point though: to me, algorithmic music
             | isn't an end, it's a means to an end. The end in this case
             | is composing music. Algorithmic music can be a source of
             | ideas and inspiration in a way that nothing else can. This
             | is especially true if we are able to specify the rule set
             | for music generation. How many times have I sat down at the
             | keyboard and tried to write a melody over some really cool
             | rhythmic bass line I came up with? Countless times. If I
             | could, for example, plug in the a key, rhythmic signature
             | and feeling I'm going for and generate a melody, I would be
             | able to finish more songs. I could use the generated melody
             | as a starting point; it might spark some new ideas. This
             | would be even cooler if I could provide the algorithm with
             | a wav file or some midi and have it try to generate a bass
             | line, melody, chord progression etc.
             | 
             | So, I guess I see algorithmic music generation less as
             | something to replace human made music and more as a tool to
             | aid in sparking creativity in humans composing music.
        
           | crucialfelix wrote:
           | Original acid had lots of glitch beats and computer madness
           | 
           | https://youtu.be/-VSjctLScAM
        
           | hnhg wrote:
           | I think you were unlucky, actually. I've been playing around
           | with it on and off for a few hours now and sometimes it gets
           | locked into the behaviour you describe, but for the most part
           | it's very standard 4/4.
        
             | alfiedotwtf wrote:
             | Same. 30 minutes in, and this acid is better than a lot of
             | #acidtechno on Instagram. It's just missing having more
             | accents on the 303 :)
        
               | stinos wrote:
               | Yeah I checked again and there's definitely more
               | 'standard' acid in there. Now it's just waiting until
               | someone records it and posts it as being theirs :)
        
               | samstave wrote:
               | Cant wait until "gem and the holograms" is a real thing
               | (an AI powered rockstar who is not a real human but is a
               | world-wide super-star)
        
               | freeflight wrote:
               | Sounds a bit like Hatsune Miku
        
               | bckr wrote:
               | The whole Miku Hatsune[0] phenomenon has the front end of
               | this idea. If someone combines something like OP (which
               | is the 2nd best classical algorithmic music project I've
               | listened to) with some musical AI like Jukebox[1], most
               | of the back end would be done.
               | 
               | The missing parts would be the choreography and visual
               | design. I also wouldn't personally say it's done unless
               | it is marketing itself. At which point we are in
               | singularity territory.
               | 
               | [0]https://youtu.be/YSyWtESoeOc
               | 
               | [1]https://openai.com/blog/jukebox/
        
         | sideshowb wrote:
         | > If you had no music experience, snuck into a club,
         | impersonated a DJ, and just pressed play on this, I think even
         | without touching it, no one would notice anything's amiss. If
         | you messed around with it occasionally, you'd probably get
         | hired back
         | 
         |  _Some_ sufficiently intoxicated people will dance to anything,
         | though a good dj feels an obligation to make sure the thing
         | being played is of good quality, regardless.
         | 
         | As to who gets hired, that's more a matter of networking than
         | musical talent.
        
           | stinos wrote:
           | _Sufficiently intoxicated people will dance to anything_
           | 
           | I've heard this sentiment before and I always wonder whether
           | it has been given enough thought or whether it's really true
           | for you and the people you know. I mean, me and me friends
           | have left more than one party because we'd rather stroll
           | around the neighbourhood than endure the music the DJ was
           | playing. Admittedly that happened more when not using drugs
           | but it's not like drugs suddenly just make you accept
           | anything. Not even MDMA, which is the one which has plenty of
           | potential in that direction.
        
             | coldtea wrote:
             | > _I mean, me and me friends have left more than one party
             | because we 'd rather stroll around the neighbourhood than
             | endure the music the DJ was playing._
             | 
             | Was it because the music was bad though, or because you
             | were opinionated against it? E.g. "me and my friends, we
             | don't listen to 2-step garage".
             | 
             | > _Admittedly that happened more when not using drugs but
             | it 's not like drugs suddenly just make you accept
             | anything._
             | 
             | You'd be surprised...
        
               | stinos wrote:
               | _Was it because the music was bad though, or because you
               | were opinionated against it?_
               | 
               | One may not like certain music, but like with other art
               | it gets into tricky territory to objectively call it bad
               | :) Anyway: yes, it was because we found the music not
               | good. Or not up to par with our expectations. Or not
               | matching our current mood.
               | 
               | I don't have strong opinions against music styles anymore
               | since I went through puberty, the only period in a
               | lifetime where that can be forgiven. Haha, I was one of
               | those idiots who thought metal was the only true music
               | and anything with an electronic beat under it had to die
               | and rot in hell and fans thereof needed to be actively
               | made fun of.
               | 
               | Of course life is so much better if you just listen to
               | literally anything and decide based on what you hear.
               | Which didn't take long to realize. That being said, there
               | are a lot of genres which usually don't do anything at
               | all for me, i.e. which don't make me feel a thing. And
               | others which I almost cannot stand listening to. Most of
               | the time individual songs though. Completely normal, but
               | not the same as being opinionated against it.
        
             | sideshowb wrote:
             | You have taste in music :-) I should have qualified that
             | statement slightly more.
        
             | bzzzt wrote:
             | > Sufficiently intoxicated people will dance to anything
             | 
             | There's an urban legend saying Richard D James (Aphex Twin)
             | threw a microphone in a kitchen blender at a concert and
             | people were dancing to that sound...
        
               | polypodiopsi wrote:
               | theres a whole genre working with these methods of analog
               | aleatory sound generation (harsh noise)
        
               | _joel wrote:
               | Fanzatia NYE93, people outside dancing to a car alarm
               | (quite a famous video)
               | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5rYXcmVSeBU
        
               | samstave wrote:
               | Wow - I was going to raves in SF during this period. I've
               | seen these types of people before.
               | 
               | Lots of stories from those days.
        
               | _joel wrote:
               | They caught up with the two people in this recently,
               | they're still doing well (albeit not much raving nowadays
               | :) )
        
               | yboris wrote:
               | This is a classic:
               | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6WFsIskJ05I (20 seconds -
               | worth a watch)
        
               | tweetle_beetle wrote:
               | And I'm sure there's an anecdote about the fire alarm at
               | the Hacienda, and I've heard something similar from
               | someone who worked at Fabric.
        
               | stinos wrote:
               | Sounds like a typical noise gig.
        
               | Mediterraneo10 wrote:
               | Those people need not even be intoxicated, because noise
               | music is its own genre, and some of the people enjoying
               | RDJ will probably be responsive to it; RDJ has had a few
               | moments when he approached the Japanese scene. Indeed,
               | when artists like Merzbow perform at festivals, it is
               | clear that the noise stimulates some people's dance
               | reflexes.
        
               | thinkingemote wrote:
               | I was at one of those gigs before several years ago.
               | Possibly because the volume was too loud, or the music
               | generally too discordant but about 85% of the crowd went
               | upstairs to the chill out room for the majority of the
               | set. I remember a distinct "nope" feeling. The artist
               | himself was off stage twiddling his knobs too.
               | 
               | Those who remained were selling merch, behind the bar, or
               | stood at the back with arms folded.
        
               | sideshowb wrote:
               | I was once at a Plump DJs gig where the fire alarm went
               | off and it took everyone a minute to realize it wasn't
               | part of the tune.
               | 
               | I've also heard of people dancing to a generator when the
               | hardtek stopped.
               | 
               | To be fair to the people concerned, both examples
               | actually match the style of the music in question.
        
               | PoachedSausage wrote:
               | Reminds me of the hardcore raver Tyres from the sitcom
               | Spaced (genius British comedy):
               | 
               | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfSndZPynQk
               | 
               | Saying that I have had a similar thing with tracks that
               | have police sirens in them when listening in the car, it
               | takes a moment to realise it isn't an actual emergency
               | vehicle.
        
             | polypodiopsi wrote:
             | I feel like kodwo eshuns early writing on the drug tech
             | interface is relevant to this conversation:
             | http://ccru.net/swarm3/3_abducted.htm
        
       | gorpomon wrote:
       | An implicit good quality in an app is having it make you feel
       | like you have super powers. For a brief moment I could see myself
       | in Ibiza, taking over a gig on short notice and making it work by
       | using this app. Bravo to the author.
        
       | have_faith wrote:
       | Sounds are great. The only major thing that felt "off" is the
       | overall composition over time. Just needs some more variety in
       | structure over time and it's golden.
        
       | byteface wrote:
       | 30 mins in and still loving it!!!
        
       | Toutouxc wrote:
       | This is actually enjoyable, I could imagine working with this in
       | the background. Great work!
       | 
       | edit: You can't actually hide the window in Safari, as it goes to
       | like 10 BPM. Is it a power saving feature or what?
        
         | pablodavila wrote:
         | Can't really use it in Firefox on Windows, the drum track isn't
         | synced to the synths.
        
         | tgv wrote:
         | Browsers reduce the number of timed events in background tabs
         | and windows, and it makes sense that the webapp relies on
         | timers to trigger the changes.
        
         | jabroni_salad wrote:
         | On his autotracker page, he mentions that Safari doesn't follow
         | the webaudio spec as well as chromium or firefox. Might be
         | related to that.
        
         | nxpnsv wrote:
         | You discovered the secret ambient mode :D
        
         | ElectricMind wrote:
         | I already started using it as background for my work :)
        
       | mNovak wrote:
       | I like how the buttons flash before changing. Feels like a
       | videogame
        
         | jspash wrote:
         | I thought I was doing something wrong! A red flashing light
         | usually means "warning". I couldn't figure it out. Time to have
         | another go :)
        
       | beforeolives wrote:
       | This is great! I love the music that's coming out even though I
       | usually don't listen to a lot of electronic music.
       | 
       | Is there a way to find out a bit more about the UI and what the
       | different options are? It looks very foreign and I'm just
       | randomly clicking on things.
        
       | simias wrote:
       | I'm fascinated by the implication that in the not so far future
       | we'll reach a point where we can teach a computer to generate
       | arbitrary works of art endlessly.
       | 
       | Want new episodes of Seinfeld? Just feed the existing episodes to
       | an AI and ask it to make new ones. Beatles songs? Ditto. Spotify
       | can look at your playlists and not only recommend tracks that you
       | might like, but actually create some artificially. Post-cultural-
       | scarcity.
       | 
       | Of course by then we might already have reached the Singularity
       | so it'll be a minor aspect of a gigantic revolution.
        
         | TaupeRanger wrote:
         | That is not remotely implied by generating some algorithmic
         | musical patterns. Good grief with the hyperbole.
        
         | tomcam wrote:
         | I'm endlessly fascinated how we on HN have the arrogance to
         | assume we can do things like auto-generate Beatles songs or
         | episodes of Seinfeld. Do you think comedy writers are sitting
         | around the writing room saying "Man, in 5 years we'll be able
         | to take over those nerd jobs, no problem."
         | 
         | To auto-generate Seinfeld or Beatles... you have to be able to
         | create as well as Seinfeld or the Beatles. Try it sometime.
         | When you make a billion dollars and change popular culture,
         | answer this post and I'll eat crow.
         | 
         | Then you need to be able to do what no one else in history has
         | been able to do, which is bottle that skill.
         | 
         | Dude, most of us can't even figure out what kind of nails we'd
         | use to use for exterior siding on a chicken coop.
        
           | simias wrote:
           | I wasn't talking about hand-written algorithms like the
           | article is using, I'm talking about machine learning. TFA
           | made me think about it because we've seen a lot of "this X
           | does not exist" lately. I should've been more specific about
           | what I had in mind, I agree that it's a reach with this
           | particular example.
           | 
           | Sure, we're still a long way away, but progress has been
           | exponential. It'll probably take decades but I suspect that
           | we may see something like that in our lifetimes.
        
             | tomcam wrote:
             | > It'll probably take decades but I suspect that we may see
             | something like that in our lifetimes.
             | 
             | Making good stuff is hard. They were saying the same thing
             | in the 50s, 60s, and 70s with other AI approaches. People
             | are actually pretty smart.
        
       | Marazan wrote:
       | Marvellous
        
       | fergie wrote:
       | Hands up if you were at an illegal rave in the 90's. m/
        
         | kolinko wrote:
         | Hands up if you were at an illegal rave in 2021! :)
        
           | sabjut wrote:
           | There is a clear difference between being on an unregistered
           | event and being an utterly socially irresponsible idiot.
           | 
           | Please do not go to any raves during this pandemic.
        
           | kenneth wrote:
           | One of the things that's cool about 2020 and 2021 is getting
           | to experience things that were mostly forgotten relics of the
           | past as very real experiences today. I never thought I'd go
           | to a real speakeasy (not a gimmicky cocktail bar with a
           | password or hidden door). Illegal raves in the woods have
           | always remained a thing, but have gotten a bit of extra
           | cachet this last year.
        
             | sterlind wrote:
             | and I never thought I'd get to relive the Spanish flu!
        
           | hnick wrote:
           | They're probably all illegal in 2021 in countries with social
           | distancing laws :o
        
             | T-A wrote:
             | https://www.dw.com/en/dutch-researchers-test-ways-to-
             | party-d...
        
             | angus-prune wrote:
             | Apart from industrial raves where gas masks are already
             | part of the fashion
        
         | de6u99er wrote:
         | It's only illegal when they catch you!
        
         | petecooper wrote:
         | I highly recommend Kool London for 90s jungle, drum & bass,
         | hardcore and related genres.
         | 
         | http://koollondon.com/
         | 
         | Also on Tune In, Alexa etc.
        
           | jpcooper wrote:
           | Also worth following on Soundcloud for old school jungle,
           | with lots of mixes from back in the day:
           | https://soundcloud.com/ethereal94. The ones from "KOOL -
           | 94.5FM" (straight out of Clapton) are well worth listening
           | to.
        
       | gbh444g wrote:
       | Feature request: if you replace the "techno" sounds with piano
       | notes, you'll get a potentially interesting melody.
        
         | austinprete wrote:
         | Heh, going backwards in time to reinvent house :)
        
       | ElectricMind wrote:
       | No pills needed for this acid burn. Well done :)
        
       | jmfldn wrote:
       | This is a great project, well done. Algorithmic music is
       | fascinating to me, I feel like there's a lot of untapped
       | potential in the concept particularly with more 'complex' genres
       | where higher levels of composition and structural continuity are
       | required. This tends to work much better with loop-based genres
       | but I'd personally love to do a side project on something that
       | could write melodies from some sort of generative grammar for
       | example. A lot of these exist but the results are mixed very
       | often.
       | 
       | For me the interesting part is not just in getting a computer to
       | do all the work but using it as a compositional aide. You can
       | think of it at writing music at a higher level of abstraction.
       | Rather than writing a score you can write the rules of the score
       | and use a stochastic process to spit out permutations for
       | example. Eg imagine writing a program that could spit out Eric
       | Satie-esque melodies.
        
         | awild wrote:
         | Autechre have been doing that for quite a while now using Max
         | et al., including computer based composition. Irlite [0] (and
         | Bladelores) both feature some form of compositional changes
         | throughout the track.
         | 
         | 0:
         | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SmwW5kBfltk&list=PL1yYEMwtFZ...
        
         | Rochus wrote:
         | > I feel like there's a lot of untapped potential in the
         | concept particularly with more 'complex' genres
         | 
         | Well, you're in good company. This goes back for many decades.
         | Here is a summary of many attempts during this time:
         | https://www.amazon.com/Algorithmic-Composition-Paradigms-
         | Aut.... Really convincing composition started to appear only
         | recently using transformers, e.g.
         | https://openai.com/blog/musenet/. The present solution is a
         | rather primitive one in comparison.
        
           | jmfldn wrote:
           | Awesome thanks. Yeah I'm vaguely familiar with the history
           | but certainly not the state of the art. Will take a look at
           | this open AI project.
        
         | 05greg wrote:
         | Wholeheartedly agree using computers as a compositional aide is
         | a fantastic thing, it's really quite satisfying to define some
         | rules by which the program can modify the inputs (melodies,
         | chords, drum patterns) and have it output interesting results.
         | 
         | I coded up some jungle music not long ago:
         | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GPan4gRSwZs&t=79s
         | 
         | I'm working on a procedure to modify the drum breaks in a
         | conventional way, meaning I have to think less about keeping
         | them interesting while live coding.
        
           | sideshowb wrote:
           | Well you just inspired me to switch on my monitors :)
        
         | Abishek_Muthian wrote:
         | Excellent project, also serves to provide some quick audio
         | latency test for devices. Quality of playback seems to vary
         | between browsers and devices (DDG/FF -Android); I presume it's
         | consistent and better in iOS devices as it's known for better
         | audio latency(Don't have one nearby to test).
         | 
         | If the author is reading this, Would love to hear about the
         | quirks related to audio playback in browsers/devices you've
         | found so far in developing this.
        
         | alisonatwork wrote:
         | This kind of algorithmic music has been a thing for decades. I
         | have a funny memory of going to a university open day as a
         | child in the late 80s/early 90s and a presentation by some
         | boffin with a synthesizer was what made me want to grow up and
         | become a computer programmer.
         | 
         | Back in the early days, I think CSound[0] was the big software,
         | not because it can make especially interesting sounds compared
         | to more "musical" software synths, but because it's a proper
         | programming language which gives people the freedom to do these
         | higher level abstractions.
         | 
         | In the hardware world, a lot of this developed out of
         | arpeggiators and analog sequencers. I remember years ago I had
         | a "P3" sequencer[1] which implemented a lot of these sorts of
         | algorithmic pattern generaton tools - you could do things like
         | quantize to a scale, then set a sequence of percentages that
         | themselves impacted the likelihood of a particular note being
         | played. I see there is a new version of this sequencer[2] too.
         | 
         | Lots of analog sequencers provide similar features, and if you
         | have a modular setup you can ramp the tempo way down and have
         | them control chord progressions or swells instead of 16th note
         | patterns. Pretty sure this is how a bunch of live ambient music
         | was done back in the day.
         | 
         | That was a fairly niche corner of electronic composition, but
         | even in the mainstream of 20 years ago stuff like the Emu
         | Proteus sound modules featured pretty advanced programmable
         | arpeggiators where you could essentially write the skeleton of
         | a musical sequence and then modify what notes of it actually
         | ended up getting played by deciding which original notes to
         | start from. I always came at this more from that
         | minimal/techno/sequence-based side, but then I went to a
         | wedding and saw a wedding singer playing an "accompaniment"
         | keyboard which showed the other side - entire chord sequences
         | and backing instrumentation getting generated in real-time
         | based just on what chord the keyboard player chose to hit with
         | their left hand. It's surely only a small step forward from
         | there to being able to input a higher level algorithm that
         | could develop a whole song.
         | 
         | [0] https://csound.com/
         | 
         | [1] https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/sequentix-p3
         | 
         | [2] https://www.sequentix.com/shop/cirklon-hardware-sequencer
        
         | api wrote:
         | The question is whether the use of AI could be elevated above a
         | crutch like autotune to actually being used as an _instrument_
         | like a synthesizer. In other words: is it being used to amplify
         | the ability of the musician or compensate for their lack of
         | skill?
        
         | spiralganglion wrote:
         | Agreed, but I'd like to take it a step further. Rather than
         | fitting new compositional ideas into the patterns and
         | structures of our existing music theories, I'd like to use
         | computation to create new theories.
         | 
         | As an example, I've become really interested in the fact that
         | tempo and meter are taken as constant, grid-like structures in
         | pretty much all existing music practices (even within, say,
         | Gamelan, though there you do get a lot of pushing and pulling).
         | Typically, you have polyrhythms and polymeters to fit more
         | interesting patterns into the fixed grid, and accelerando and
         | ritardando to adjust the rate of grid traversal, but that's
         | about it. Hardly anyone applies algorithmic/geometric thinking
         | to the grid itself -- likely because more complex rhythmic
         | foundations would make human performance nigh impossible.
         | 
         | To explore this space, I created my own little generative music
         | system that takes a handful of simple motifs (a la Riley or
         | Reich) and stacks them into a recursive temporal structure,
         | which is then pushed logarithmically toward a tempo of 0 or
         | infinity. There are some rules so that the "performers" only
         | play at comprehensible scales, and that pitch modulation keeps
         | the piece interesting to a listener. You can listen to it here,
         | if you'd like: https://ivanish.ca/diminished-fifth/
         | 
         | I'd love to see more folks working on tools to make these sorts
         | of theory-stretching ideas easier to access and explore. For
         | instance, I've really been struggling with how to hand-compose
         | music that can fit within a nonlinear/recursive structure of
         | time. Existing tools like Tidal or Max/Pd were built to support
         | the existing theory. I think we need new tools that allow you
         | to design the theory itself.
        
         | almostkorean wrote:
         | In the same vein as this, David Bowie created an algorithm that
         | generated lyrics and gave him ideas for songs
         | https://www.vice.com/en/article/xygxpn/the-verbasizer-was-da...
        
         | sideshowb wrote:
         | As someone who writes mainly loop based genres I agree and have
         | thought about much the same stack of abstractions. Acid techno
         | is a great starting point as it's not known for complexity,
         | being traditionally produced with a 909+303+303, devices that
         | support only a 1 bar loop (a genre with origins that predate
         | wide availability of digital audio workstations). But like
         | yourself I'm interested in more complex genres.
         | 
         | One example of more general EDM levels of abstraction for me
         | might go
         | 
         | 1a. this tune needs to play with space (stereo/reverb) more 1b.
         | we need some interesting background sounds
         | 
         | therefore
         | 
         | 2. we need an interesting, wide background sound to start at
         | bar 32 and end at 64
         | 
         | Dropping in something from a sample library to achieve that
         | wouldn't satisfy me as every step of constructing that sound is
         | following other rules of abstraction e.g. how should it fit
         | with the existing tonal balance? with the existing rhythm? etc.
         | But at the same time the process is 1% inspiration 99%
         | perspiration - it's following unwritten almost-rules which
         | would be fascinating to capture in an algorithm if I could.
         | They wouldn't have to be completely general rules, just my own
         | personal ones.
         | 
         | A related (light hearted) thing I wrote on EDM abstractions a
         | while back
         | https://omnisplore.wordpress.com/2017/11/25/kolmogorov-compl...
        
           | Supernaut wrote:
           | > 909+303+303, devices that support only a 1 bar loop
           | 
           | Ha, no, you can input a great deal more than a single bar
           | into them. They were designed to let users store a variety of
           | patterns, which can then be assembled into a traditional
           | intro-verse-chorus song structure, if you so wish.
        
             | munificent wrote:
             | Even with a single pattern, you can add a lot of variation
             | just by changing the pattern lengths to do polyrhythms. Say
             | you do:                   909: 16 steps         303 bass: 5
             | steps         303 lead: 3 steps
             | 
             | Now you have a sequence that only repeats every 240 steps
             | or every 15 bars, even though each device never uses more
             | than a single 16 step pattern.
        
             | sideshowb wrote:
             | Doh I stand corrected :) Though still nowhere near as much
             | potential for refining the end result as you get with a
             | DAW. That's not to say live performance doesn't have value
             | of course!
        
               | kortex wrote:
               | Yep I've done it. Suuuper tedious. Which is why I suspect
               | even though you can do 2 or more bar phrases, single bar
               | loops (vamps?) are pretty typical, instead varying the
               | filter envelope and distortion over time.
        
               | sideshowb wrote:
               | Off topic but I found my preferred method of 'live'
               | performance (for dnb) was to write a tune in the DAW with
               | the intention that a few of the lead parts be played
               | live, then switch off those parts and render what's
               | effectively a backing track. Meant I could sort the
               | mixing/mastering beforehand and keep in the flow of
               | rocking out on synths when it came to the gig. I did use
               | ableton but only to auto load synth patches/effect chains
               | when each backing track was triggered.
               | 
               | I tried many other approaches involving 5 people driving
               | a live looping rig but the above was worked best for me,
               | which I guess made my act a 2010 equivalent of the guy
               | wearing the burgandy velvet suit in the hotel bar ;-)
        
         | wpietri wrote:
         | I get why people want machine-aided composition. But I'd love
         | to see a project like this go in the opposite direction.
         | 
         | Maybe put a row of buttons at the top: "I am [Loving it]
         | [Grooving] [Fine] [A Bit Bored] [About to Quit]". Then use that
         | (plus browser data and window-close data) to train ML models to
         | maximize engagement. Or perhaps to hook it up to facial
         | expression recognition.
         | 
         | When I watch friends DJ, there's this great feedback loop
         | between how the crowd's behaving and what they're putting on.
         | They're clearly using the music to achieve certain mental
         | states among listeners. I'd love to see how well that can be
         | done algorithmically.
        
           | Applejinx wrote:
           | Put a camera on the crowd, and motion-track the bouncing of
           | heads. That'll give you two banger metrics: one, how far
           | they're all bouncing/jumping/nodding, and two, how
           | consistently they are.
           | 
           | That would be enough to construct a robot DJ that could track
           | the variations it was making, and rate them for
           | 'better/worse'. Then you just make a cool-looking puppet to
           | store the camera in, that can move around and possibly wave
           | an actuator like a proper DJ, and the rest is machine
           | learning.
        
           | jmfldn wrote:
           | That would be a fun project for sure!
           | 
           | So many of the selections that great DJs make are curveballs
           | and surprising choices. This is less true in more samey
           | genres, but true pioneering selectors will tend to surprise
           | you with their taste and juxtapositions in a way that's hard
           | or maybe even impossible to really capture in an algorithm.
           | 
           | Put another way, even in something as simple a song
           | selection, the weirdness and contingencies in human creative
           | decision making is a feature not a bug.
           | 
           | The efficiency and cleverness of algorithms can create create
           | great powerful recommendation engines but there's nothing
           | like the idiosyncrasies of a person as a curator.
        
             | wpietri wrote:
             | For sure! I'll always appreciate the deeper stuff that only
             | humans can do. I just think it would be interesting to see
             | how much of it we could automate. E.g., could it get to the
             | level of decent background music?
             | 
             | Of course, there's always the possibility algorithmic
             | composers could do even better than humans. Clarke told a
             | story about that in 1957:
             | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ultimate_Melody
             | 
             | Text here: https://archive.org/details/1957-02_IF/page/n71/
             | mode/2up?vie...
        
             | Digit-Al wrote:
             | I'm not entirely convinced by your argument. Some years ago
             | there was an episode of the Gadget Show where they were
             | testing an app for suggesting food ideas. I can't remember
             | how it was supposed to work, it was too long ago, but it
             | was something to do with having profiles of different food
             | types programmed into it and then it used some sort of
             | algorithm to compare taste profiles and come up with
             | combinations that should work.
             | 
             | The combination it came up with that they then tried
             | selling on a food stall was chocolate on pizza. It wasn't
             | to everybody's taste but some liked it, with one describing
             | it as "weirdly delicious".
             | 
             | It doesn't seem completely ridiculous that if an AI could
             | be trained to recognise patterns of music that worked well
             | together that it could analyse a large corpus of recorded
             | music and come up with surprising mixes that you wouldn't
             | think would work, but do.
        
               | jmfldn wrote:
               | I don't doubt it's possible to come out of leftfield for
               | an AI DJ but I still wonder if it could be a tastemaker
               | like a great DJ. I don't just want great individual
               | mixes, I want consistent, surprising yet tasteful
               | selections that define an idiosyncratic style.
        
           | mikepurvis wrote:
           | I wonder if you could do the feedback mechanism in a more
           | subtle way, for example by pairing the musical composition
           | component to an interactive activity like playing an action
           | game, where movements and so on in the game trigger a
           | response in the music.
           | 
           | There are lots of games that do this kind of thing at a
           | _rhythm_ level, like Necrodancer and more recently BPM [1],
           | but I think there 'd be the potential to do a lot more with
           | it than just rewarding beat-alignment with a pre-cooked solo
           | that blazes over top of the base track.
           | 
           | [1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V684o6wBaSQ
        
       | abetusk wrote:
       | Vitling just published the source (CC-BY) [0] [1].
       | 
       | [0] https://github.com/vitling/acid-banger
       | 
       | [1] https://twitter.com/vvitling/status/1384434602442428416
        
         | joshka wrote:
         | The pattern generation logic[1] is surprisingly simple.
         | 
         | [1]: https://github.com/vitling/acid-
         | banger/blob/main/src/pattern...
        
           | abetusk wrote:
           | Yeah, very nice. This gets something right that so many other
           | generative music experiments get wrong, which is variation in
           | note length (aka tempo). You see other generative music use
           | Markov Chain for note choice but not note length and it
           | quickly becomes very "same-y", whereas this has, for the vast
           | majority of melodies it generates, a natural feel (to me).
           | 
           | I wish I understood the WebAudio API better to get a better
           | handle on how the instruments are created.
        
       | starkd wrote:
       | Interesting project, but terrible UI. If you're not immediately
       | clear what you are doing, you really have to struggle to
       | comprehend what the adjustments are. Some of the knobs don't
       | appear to do anything.
        
         | dumpsterdiver wrote:
         | The UI appears to pay homage to mod trackers from back in the
         | demoscene days. Who remembers Elwood?
         | 
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FastTracker_2
        
       | tlhunter wrote:
       | As a fan of Acid music this is actually pretty good. It even has
       | "drop" measures where the drums disappear and the lead goes
       | through a dynamic cutoff filter. Every now and then a bad
       | lead/bass combination does pop up.
        
       | knacky wrote:
       | Hooked as soon as the beat kicked in.
        
       | jasfi wrote:
       | Very cool, but the UI could do with a pause button.
        
         | technocratius wrote:
         | You clearly do not understand the nature of acid techno.
         | 
         | Kidding aside: i agree. Also live manipulation of the patterns
         | by clicking to add/subtract notes/drums would be cool.
        
           | kortex wrote:
           | > pause button
           | 
           | All it does is play a sample of a metal door squeaking open,
           | apply a lowpass, and add ambient chatter of the back alley
           | smokers.
        
             | LegitShady wrote:
             | and someone drunkenly asks you for a cigarette
        
       | Rochus wrote:
       | Math.random() quantized in time and scale. No DNN.
        
       | new_here wrote:
       | Some nice stuff on their Bandcamp too: https://music.vitling.xyz/
        
       | krrishd wrote:
       | pretty cool, i'm tangentially reminded of
       | https://jaipaul.bronze.ai/
       | 
       | > This version of Jasmine by Jai Paul is created using the BRONZE
       | AI engine. On each listen, Bronze performs a unique and infinite
       | playback of the piece.
       | 
       | Bronze is a new technology that allows music creators to utilise
       | AI and machine learning as creative tools for composition and
       | arrangement. Bronze is also an audio file format which will
       | revolutionise music playback, enabling artists to release non-
       | static, generative and augmented music.
        
         | qvrjuec wrote:
         | I was kind of disappointed by the OP's link because of the bar
         | that this Jai Paul/Bronze track had set for me. Thanks for
         | sharing this!
        
         | pradn wrote:
         | What a perfect song to pick for this experiment. It's extremely
         | listenable. Jai Paul is a genius and my biggest problem with
         | him is that he doesn't produce enough songs. His story is an
         | interesting one, if you are interested. His laptop with his
         | music was stolen and the music was leaked, and he disappeared
         | from the scene for years afterward.
         | 
         | https://consequence.net/2013/04/report-jai-pauls-album-leake...
        
           | krrishd wrote:
           | Totally agree on Jai Paul, I'm a big fan as well :)
        
       | amatecha wrote:
       | Nice, someone should hook this up to a real 303 and 909 with Web
       | MIDI API... heheh :) Also this synth line with heavy delay sounds
       | like something from Velvet Acid Christ, haha
        
       | nxpnsv wrote:
       | More gems on vitlings site:
       | https://www.vitling.xyz/toys/autotracker/
        
         | Macuyiko wrote:
         | I really liked this one:
         | https://www.vitling.xyz/toys/triple_saw/ - very moody!
        
           | smusamashah wrote:
           | It's simple 2d canvas API. No shaders. That's amazing.
           | https://github.com/vitling/triple-saw/blob/master/crt.js
        
           | aembleton wrote:
           | This is more my genre of music. I can have this on in the
           | background.
        
           | andybak wrote:
           | Quite listenable!
        
           | samjanis wrote:
           | great find!
        
           | stagas wrote:
           | That's pretty good!
        
       | technocratius wrote:
       | Wow, excellent execution. I listen to a lot of acid and am amazed
       | how good this sounds. Great way to discover interesting patterns
       | for further music making as well I can imagine; how would that
       | work with copyright though?
        
         | Cthulhu_ wrote:
         | IANAL but, it's not illegal if you don't get charged with
         | anything.
         | 
         | It reminds me of a project done some years ago, some people
         | generated millions (billions?) of melodies as a means of
         | trolling copyright claims.
        
           | richrichardsson wrote:
           | > It reminds me of a project done some years ago
           | 
           | This comment here sums up how bonkers the pandemic is and
           | what effect it's having on people: that was reported in
           | February of last year!
           | 
           | https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-
           | tech/ne...
        
             | sterlind wrote:
             | reported the day before I left work and haven't yet
             | returned. no wonder it felt like a decade ago.
        
       | rhelsing wrote:
       | Really cool project. I have been spending most of my free time
       | lately on a similar side project: https://neptunely.com. It takes
       | midi files as input and generates original samples that fit with
       | your composition.
        
       | avereveard wrote:
       | this is awesome, tho I would love a way to share/store the state
       | via links
        
       | Mulpze15 wrote:
       | I remember chasing down history of acid music online and
       | discovering Charanjit Singh who created Ten Ragas to a Disco Beat
       | in 1982:
       | 
       | https://youtu.be/sB4RYBpwV0A
        
         | amatecha wrote:
         | That is awesome!!! Love it.
        
       | matt_j wrote:
       | Nice!
       | 
       | I love acid music, such a simple formula with infinite variation.
       | There's something so delicious about the wobble of a 303
       | bassline.
       | 
       | I just want to mention Tin Man for those who are interested in
       | acid. He writes, mostly, quite palatable (often mournful) tunes
       | at house music tempo, but he has a good range and goes full
       | banger at times. A real wizard with a heart for the genre.
       | 
       | https://www.discogs.com/artist/313993-Tin-Man-3
        
         | scns wrote:
         | His Album Neo Neo Acid is one of my all time favorites
        
         | operatorius wrote:
         | Tin Man collaborations with Donato Dozzy on Acid Test eps are
         | one of the best acid tracks Ive ever heard
         | 
         | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hpEDpgCbCPg
         | 
         | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=COTZGbcS5BQ
         | 
         | Also. Rashad Becker masters most of the Dozzy's and Tin Man
         | works. Very betufiful mastering work: so mellow, so clear and
         | spacious. Take a listen of Donato Dozzy - K album on a good
         | system, you'll hear so many details and beautiful spatial
         | placement.
        
       | lodovic wrote:
       | What a wonderful site, I love it. Sounds so good. I'd love to
       | have a feature to make the bass drum regular, though, to keep the
       | beat pumping.
        
       | vascocosta wrote:
       | I'm a programmer. I also enjoy occasionally producing electronic
       | music, usually within the trance genre. Nevertheless as a good
       | programmer I'm lazy and that reflects in my music creation. I'm a
       | minimalist, but minimalist trance doesn't sound so good in my
       | opinion. Many layers are often needed, with complex melodies, if
       | you want it to sound professional.
       | 
       | On the other hand, acid techno seems to be minimalist by design,
       | I love it. If I can create it programmatically even better.
       | Mixing automation with some human interaction seems to be the
       | best of both worlds. I'm in love with this and feeling like
       | creating my own acid techno production tool, with a mix of
       | automation and interaction.
        
       | Ccecil wrote:
       | Great work.
       | 
       | This reminds me a lot of the algorithm that drives the Korg KARMA
       | workstation. I often found myself letting it run like this to see
       | where it decided to go. The settings were changed by knobs but
       | there was often slight drift and changes...as well as a lot of
       | 1/256 measures.
       | 
       | The KARMA architecture moved on to the Korg M3 and OASYS (IIRC)
       | and is very interesting. There are some good videos on the topic
       | and Stephen Kay I have found to be very approachable in the
       | forums (albeit a decade ago).
       | 
       | There was even software to make your computer "double" what the
       | KARMA was doing so you could expand to even more
       | channels/instruments...days like this, I miss my synth.
       | 
       | edit: KARMA= Kay Algorithmic Realtime Music Architecture and it
       | was a variant of the Korg Triton system.
        
       | akomtu wrote:
       | That's pretty impressive. Take it to the next level: pattern of
       | patterns. Your level-1 patterns look like a sum of simple
       | repetitions. A level-2 pattern would be a simple repetition of
       | level-1 patterns. And so on.
        
       | swen-rekcah wrote:
       | I may be opening a can-of-worms by asking this question.
       | 
       | But, what are the rights around using this algorithmically
       | generated music? Is it free use? Who owns the copyright
        
         | w-m wrote:
         | The webpage seems to be blatantly ripping off some of the
         | melodies copyrighted by these guys:
         | https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2020/02/whats...
        
         | Iv wrote:
         | The button presser could make a claim on the copyright. I could
         | see a legal challenge being filled as this not filling the
         | requirement for being a creative work and hence not
         | copyrightable.
        
       | ssijak wrote:
       | If anybody wants to add something related to their
       | Spotify/Deezer/Apple Music playlists, search for: A _S_ Y*S,
       | Emmanuel Top, Kai Tracid
        
       | MadWombat wrote:
       | It is cute that this is implemented in the browser, but to be
       | honest, this does not sound any different from a whole load of
       | generative modular synth patches out there.
        
       | s1mon wrote:
       | This is definitely enjoyable and impressive for being done in a
       | browser. It covers some of the core bits of a prototypical acid
       | set up, but there are some basic things missing.
       | 
       | The "909" section only has 4 sounds with some (4?) different
       | velocity (think loudness) levels. The real thing had 26 knobs to
       | adjust the 10 different individual outputs (plus L/R) of 11ish
       | sounds (ride and crash cymbals are on separate outs, but
       | open/closed high hats are on one out). The "303" has 4 knobs but
       | the real thing has 6 and the delay would be from some sort of
       | external effects, so really it's missing 3 controls (tuning, env
       | mod, and accent).
       | 
       | The note color seems to indicate accents and slides (the yellow
       | and purple), but I'm still having trouble hearing which is which
       | and it's not really doing a great job of getting to the level of
       | resonance and distortion that happens with the real thing. It's
       | nice that delay has been added as an effect on both "303"s and
       | the overall mix, but there are so many classic acid tracks which
       | relied on some sort of distortion either through external effects
       | or various mods.
       | 
       | The whole issue of 303 emulators is a huge rabbit hole in and of
       | itself. [1] The history of the 303 and its various uses can also
       | go on for hours [2]
       | 
       | [1] https://djmag.com/longreads/8-best-tb-303-clones-
       | according-a...
       | 
       | [2] http://blog.dubspot.com/roland-tb-303-spotlight/
        
       | rmurray2050 wrote:
       | wow this is excellent
        
       | joaoheleno wrote:
       | The quintessential acid track is "Acid Eiffel" by Choice (Laurent
       | Garnier, Shazz).
       | 
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1YdsA5XAPU
        
       | arximboldi wrote:
       | I'm collaborating with this company working very much on this
       | space: giving artists simple tools to make music that is non-
       | linear and generative, where the artist expresses structure and
       | composition, and the machine is the performer: https://bronze.ai
        
       | calhoun137 wrote:
       | This is so awesome! I have wanted to make something like this for
       | like 20 years, this is much better than anything I made though.
       | Great work
        
       | bitwize wrote:
       | Reminds me of how the music in Rez for each stage is a single
       | short loop. It's longer than a bar; I think it might be four bars
       | or so. A 32-bit bitmap for each "layer level" controls which of
       | the loop's 32 MIDI channels are active, creating the illusion of
       | an ever-shifting soundscape.
        
       | dnafq wrote:
       | Now to map this to a MIDI controller...
        
         | geoxist wrote:
         | Done: https://github.com/vitling/acid-banger/issues/1
        
       | justaj wrote:
       | Is it me or does the tempo jitter all over the place?
       | 
       | For me this is under Chromium v89.0.4389.90 as well as FF 87.0
       | (64-bit)
        
       | RootReducer wrote:
       | This is amazingly well done. Although simple, it's actually
       | enjoyable to listen to.
        
       | throwaway4good wrote:
       | Why does it slow down when I tab away from it (Safari)?
        
         | RootReducer wrote:
         | timeouts/intervals are slowed down when in inactive tabs
         | 
         | https://gomakethings.com/the-delay-on-settimeout-and-setinte...
        
       | reasons wrote:
       | Jamming out to this in my home office. Someone hand me some
       | upside down water.
        
       | vesinisa wrote:
       | I have seen plenty of AIs that supposedly generate music, but
       | this is the first one where the results are actually plausible.
       | This is not too different from what I remember hearing in the
       | early 2000s raves. Only the sound-system back then was maybe a
       | bit beefier than my meager laptop speakers. ;) Well done!!
       | 
       | I have actually been working all morning now with this as my
       | background music. It is great.
        
       | lethologica wrote:
       | I don't know anything about acid techno. Can someone comment on
       | how accurate this is to the genre? I can't seem to get it to do
       | much but make random beeps and boops, but maybe that's just the
       | style of music?
        
         | presentation wrote:
         | This is pretty much how it sounds - the particular synthesizer
         | and tweaking its parameters (resonance, filtering, and so on)
         | is the main defining feature, the particular classic drum
         | machine used typically goes along with it - but there's a lot
         | more variation you can do besides just slowly modulating it
         | like this program does, as well as crossovers to other genres
         | (using that squeaky synth sound in other genres of electronic
         | music).
         | 
         | This anxiety inducing song by Evol basically switches between
         | samples of different acid tracks every other beat, serves as a
         | nice primer for how you can vary it lol
         | 
         | https://youtu.be/2gWCNpSjUDM
         | 
         | And here's an example of a cross over into electro-pop-driven
         | house music, Peggy Gou's remix of Shakedown:
         | 
         | https://youtu.be/tZbf2JR422w
         | 
         | Ishkur's guide to electronic music has a good rundown of the
         | genre and related stuff:
         | 
         | https://music.ishkur.com/?query=Acid#
         | 
         | (Though I prefer the old school Flash UI over this new one tbh
         | lol)
         | 
         | http://techno.org/electronic-music-guide/
        
           | lethologica wrote:
           | Thanks for the examples. I can see why this website is so
           | impressive now, it sounds pretty spot on to the samples!
           | That's absolutely mind blowing to me.
        
           | operatorius wrote:
           | Evol's mixtape is such an amazing work!
           | 
           | 303 different tracks in 13:47
           | 
           | Link to full mixtape https://soundcloud.com/ideal-
           | recordings/ideal-mixtape-eleven...
        
         | sneak wrote:
         | I'm very, very deep into this genre, for decades.
         | 
         | This is a good algorithmic approximation of the quality of
         | 50-80% of sub-professional acid techno live sets. It's a
         | _great_ minimum bar for  "should you be performing live": you
         | should at least be more interesting than this webpage of random
         | patterns and sweeps.
         | 
         | To be honest, I'm going to leave this playing _a lot_. This is
         | an extremely representative sample of a very specific minimal
         | style, one I love a lot.
        
         | caseyohara wrote:
         | In general this is pretty accurate to the genre. Techno is all
         | about repetition. This is super cool.
        
         | dTal wrote:
         | Compare and contrast:
         | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=83VzCP_E1mg
         | 
         | {Astral Matrix - Elastic}
        
       | airhead969 wrote:
       | It's all about high hat and having enough plamp to stay awake
       | forever.
        
       | kortex wrote:
       | "It's so easy to get acid, you can get it anywhere!"
       | 
       | And now you truly can get fresh acid anytime, anywhere!
       | Absolutely amazing project. This is actually like... 75%
       | passable, and better than most entry level stuff I've heard.
       | 
       | I've wanted this to exist for like 15 years. Tried my hand at it
       | with Reason back in like, 2012, got kinda there with RPG-8,
       | Jupiter and way too much automation, but it was just way too
       | limiting of a medium back then. This makes me want to take
       | another stab at it.
       | 
       | Some minor suggestions:
       | 
       | - on mobile: Not sure which interfaces are clickable but
       | nonresponsive, vs not clickable at all. E.g. BPM knob didn't do
       | anything for me on mobile, but worked fine on desktop
       | 
       | - I realize this might be hard for browser, maybe with a
       | node/electron app, but MIDI out would be dope.
       | 
       | - Distortion module
       | 
       | - A simple mix-out EQ would be nice.
       | 
       | - Constraints to make sure one osc is always on a bass part
       | 
       | - third osc? :)
       | 
       | - What would really sell it is some lead-in before a pattern
       | change. E.g. When the cycler starts to flash red (especially when
       | they are all about change), occasionally toss in some snare
       | fills/crescendos
       | 
       | If you had a sample board, you could easily convince someone this
       | was made by a human. Maybe inexperienced, but still very much
       | human.
        
         | genericacct wrote:
         | MIDI out is entirely possible from a webbrowser!
         | https://www.w3.org/TR/webmidi/
        
       | samjanis wrote:
       | To quote koboll below, this has to be the single most awesome
       | project I have seen and heard so far.
       | 
       | It brings back so much from when I used to use the MC-505 while
       | listening to Delerium Spheres 1 and 2.
       | 
       | I'd write more but I gotta go. Just had to say awesome and thanks
       | for sharing.
        
       | koboll wrote:
       | Congratulations, this might be the single coolest web project
       | I've ever seen on this site
       | 
       | Add other types of sound (house, trance, etc.) and I will gladly
       | pay a monthly fee to access it
        
         | sneak wrote:
         | Making interesting music of other genres is a lot more
         | difficult to do algorithmically. One of the big perks of acid
         | techno (a pair of TB-303s and a TR-808 or TR-909 drum machine,
         | and some simple effects processors) is how easy it is to get
         | really interesting sounding stuff out of random patterns and
         | simple filter sweeps.
        
         | strangelove026 wrote:
         | > Congratulations, this might be the single coolest web project
         | I've ever seen on this site
         | 
         | 100%
        
         | TheSpiceIsLife wrote:
         | Only tangentially related:
         | 
         | http://di.fm stream many flavours of electronic music, and DJ
         | sets, I've been a paying customer on and off for over a decade.
         | 
         | Also check out http://soma.fm
        
           | FractalParadigm wrote:
           | I will also vouch for and throw my 2C/ in for DI.fm. I've
           | been subscribed since 2014 and while I have my qualms (namely
           | a few stations that haven't seen a playlist change since I
           | signed up, or their somewhat recent attempt to switch to a
           | playlist-based setup instead of internet radio), it's a top-
           | notch service that continues to please.
        
             | TheSpiceIsLife wrote:
             | I rarely visit their website as they allow you to save your
             | favourite stations as a play list for your preferred media
             | player.
             | 
             | Will have to check it out, thanks for the heads up.
             | 
             | Are you aware of their other sites,
             | https://www.jazzradio.com/ and https://www.rockradio.com/
             | 
             | Your di.fm subscription gives you member access to those
             | two as well, last time I checked.
        
               | FractalParadigm wrote:
               | WOW! I had absolutely no idea about these, my DI.FM
               | credentials (Google sign-in) worked flawlessly and
               | registers my premium subscription.
               | 
               | > I rarely visit their website as they allow you to save
               | your favourite stations as a play list for your preferred
               | media player.
               | 
               | Agreed 100%, plus the ability to choose the stream
               | quality for your playlist-stations is an added bonus, not
               | even mentioning the hardware player support. It feels
               | rare anymore to have a quality, reasonably-priced, bloat-
               | free service with user-friendly features, but they
               | seriously deliver
        
           | virtue3 wrote:
           | another one up for di.fm. Just absolutely great quality and
           | fidelity and a good selection of stuff.
        
       | gigatexal wrote:
       | This is so dope!!!
       | 
       | Feature request: be able to save a generated track either offline
       | or in the web such that I can go back and listen to it again.
        
       ___________________________________________________________________
       (page generated 2021-04-20 23:01 UTC)