[HN Gopher] The terrifyingly prescient 'Serial Experiments Lain,...
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       The terrifyingly prescient 'Serial Experiments Lain,' 20 years
       later (2018)
        
       Author : isomorph
       Score  : 145 points
       Date   : 2021-04-19 15:03 UTC (7 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.theringer.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.theringer.com)
        
       | ulzeraj wrote:
       | I like SE Lain but I don't hold it as my favorite anime series.
       | I'm more of a Texhnolyze fan and I do like Yoshitoshi Abe's
       | character design.
       | 
       | His designs are present in Lain, Niea Under 7, Haibane Renmei,
       | Despera, Phenomeno, Texhnolyze and others. I really like his
       | artwork and I made a habit of buying one of his artbooks
       | everytime I visit the Akihabara Mandarake building.
        
         | nonbirithm wrote:
         | In case you or anyone else doesn't already know, ABe also
         | livestreams on his YouTube channel. Recently he's been drawing
         | a new short manga.
         | 
         | https://youtube.com/c/abflygm
        
       | jpdb wrote:
       | Lain catches a lot of flak in anime circles for being "edgy" or
       | "deep for the sake of being deep" in that it tries too hard to be
       | something thought provoking, but lacks any real substance. People
       | still assign what they think the show is trying to say, but
       | because the show is so abstract anything sticks.
       | 
       | I tend to agree with the above point, but it has been quite some
       | time since I watched it. I wonder if a new personal perspective
       | and rapidly changing tech landscape would change how I feel about
       | it today.
        
         | dfxm12 wrote:
         | Even if you if you think the show is lacking substance, however
         | you define that, there's more to a show than just the story.
         | The character designs (and art direction in general), music,
         | sci-fi setting, Apple references, etc. are all other reasons
         | for its critical success & popularity (or maybe cult following
         | is the right term, I don't know). That the soundtracks and
         | artbooks are still so sought after is a testament to that.
        
           | cl0ne wrote:
           | The atmosphere created by the sound design and music is a big
           | reason I liked it.
        
             | astrange wrote:
             | The studio made a show called Boogiepop Phantom afterwards
             | (based on some urban fantasy light novels) that reuses a
             | lot of art assets, including the sounds. It is
             | unfortunately not nearly as good and the animation quality
             | is seriously low.
        
         | medicineman wrote:
         | >"deep for the sake of being deep"
         | 
         | It is babies first philosophy: the anime. Nothing wrong with
         | liking it, the problem comes when people think it is deeper
         | than it actually is. It is quaint when viewed through current
         | affairs, and much like the article, absolute thesaurus bait
         | pretending to be something more.
        
         | GuB-42 wrote:
         | As much as I liked the anime, I tend to put it into the
         | "pseudo-profound bullshit" category. They drop in loads of
         | philosophical concepts, fringe science, wild extrapolation, and
         | a bit of conspiracies and paranormal. There is no way you _can
         | 't_ make parallels with the real world.
         | 
         | If may sound harsh but it is not a bad thing. It creates an
         | atmosphere, and it is thought provoking, as evidenced by the
         | article. It is a work of fiction, and fiction is like magic, it
         | is all fake, but we enjoy being tricked into it. And that is a
         | perfectly good trick when well executed.
         | 
         | Maybe Lain overdid it a bit, but I enjoyed the show, and for
         | me, it is the important part.
        
           | teekert wrote:
           | Yeah I remember the weird fringe science, using certain
           | frequencies to get online without a Navi, etc, but if you
           | Googled it, it was all investigated before and real fringe-y.
           | But I tend to agree with you, it is trying to be deep in some
           | ways.
        
       | rhn_mk1 wrote:
       | It's interesting how two people can have diametrically opposite
       | readings of the same piece of art.
       | 
       | I read the Wired as not less real than the real world, as the
       | influence could flow in both directions, with events in one place
       | causing effects in the other. The ultimate confirmation of that
       | is the final scene, which was actually depicting Lain meeting her
       | grown up school friend some 10 years later, while Lain stayed -
       | timelessly - a child.
       | 
       | I once read a story which dealt with the lack of purpose in a
       | world dominated by technology, where humans had nothing left to
       | do, nowhere obvious to progress. The story presented an escape
       | into tradition and slavery along with the progression into
       | virtual reality, where new worlds could be built, shaped by the
       | will of the participants as opposed to the hard rules of physics,
       | therefore granting a whole set of new universes in which to
       | search for meaning.
       | 
       | While we don't have fully fledged universes yet, we have gotten
       | to various lengths along that road thanks to the Internet. Why
       | should we say that experiences of the people who value their
       | Internet goals more than the real world are invalid?
        
         | anthk wrote:
         | > Where new worlds could be built, shaped by the will of the
         | participants as opposed to the hard rules of physics, therefore
         | granting a whole set of new universes in which to search for
         | meaning.
         | 
         | There was a social oriented MUD in the 90's exploring that.
        
           | munk-a wrote:
           | It really saddens me that I no longer have the time to sink
           | tens of hours a week into MUDs - the extremely low barrier to
           | start one up meant that there were a lot of extremely
           | interesting ideas out there - and the interactivity meant the
           | art was a lot more engaging than more dead-tree related
           | mediums.
        
         | astrange wrote:
         | > It's interesting how two people can have diametrically
         | opposite readings of the same piece of art.
         | 
         | Mostly because Chiaki Konaka is incapable of writing endings. I
         | don't think Lain is that abstract (there's some early parts
         | that look like it but I think are meant to be representative of
         | schizophrenia), but it is hard to follow what the last episode
         | is saying even though they're talking nonstop. With such a
         | heavy script you can't always trust the translation to present
         | it well either.
        
           | rhn_mk1 wrote:
           | > it is hard to follow what the last episode is saying
           | 
           | I found it hard to follow what most episodes were saying, and
           | I changed my interpretation several times, always feeling
           | that I'm on the verge of understanding, but not quite getting
           | it.
           | 
           | And I actually liked it that way.
        
         | ergot_vacation wrote:
         | Never trust a "journalist," or anyone who uses the phrase "very
         | online" to review anime in a meaningful way. I stayed away from
         | Mob Psycho for ages because of nutty articles like this reading
         | meaning and intention into it to a degree that would have made
         | Freud blush. It's all just projection. To some people,
         | everything has to be about preaching ideology, spreading their
         | collection of neat, tidy just-so stories about how the world
         | works. They can't just let the work speak for itself.
         | 
         | Glad to see this though, because it reminds me I should get
         | around to finally trying Lain. Oh, and I highly recommend Mob
         | Psycho as well.
        
           | vharuck wrote:
           | Mob Psycho was, IMO, pretty blatant in its moral lesson. Are
           | you saying it didn't have one, or the reviewers blazed their
           | own trails in defiance of the show's message?
        
             | ad404b8a372f2b9 wrote:
             | Are we talking about the anime or the manga? It's been a
             | long while but I don't remember the anime being preachy or
             | blatant, what was the lesson?
        
               | vharuck wrote:
               | I've only seen the anime, but the lesson I got from it
               | was: "Society requires many people who are good at
               | different things to work together, and your value should
               | come from how much you improve the world."
               | 
               | The villains decided fighting with psychic power was the
               | best thing, therefore they were the best humans. Mob
               | thought helping people and living your life was best, so
               | he idolized his master and the bodybuilding club.
        
           | uncletaco wrote:
           | You stayed away from Mob Psycho because "journalists" liked
           | it and drew meaning from it? What a sad life that must be.
           | 
           | What I find interesting about anime reviews, as opposed to
           | video game ones IMO, is more often than not the review is
           | about what the writer got out of it as opposed to trying to
           | set expectations for the audience on what they will get out
           | of it. I guess in a lot of ways that's because anime reviews
           | often happen after the fact or are spurred on by genuine
           | excitement. It seems very rare that someone publishing the
           | review is doing so because the media was dropped in their lap
           | and they were told to review the first three episodes for the
           | release.
           | 
           | I like that, and it works pretty well for video essays.
        
         | analyte123 wrote:
         | "A young girl can't stop posting" as a description for SEL is
         | like describing Pan's Labyrinth as "a young girl struggles with
         | mental illness in wartime".
        
           | mullingitover wrote:
           | Reminds me of the classic summary of Wizard of Oz:
           | "Transported to a surreal landscape, a young girl kills the
           | first person she meets and then teams up with three strangers
           | to kill again."
        
       | exhaze wrote:
       | Saw Lain growing up. Quite fond of it. Pretty weak at predicting
       | the future. You know who was pretty good at it? Isaac Asimov
       | (spoilers ahead). My favorite example:
       | 
       | Protagonist visits a highly advanced planet where everyone lives
       | on their own plot of land. People lead lives of leisure, all of
       | their needs are taken care of by highly efficient robots.
       | However, they are terrified of physical contact, especially with
       | the protagonist, due to a risk of infection with off-planet
       | viruses. Here's where it gets kinda scary:
       | 
       | - all interactions are done via advanced telepresence. It's been
       | perfectly replicated to mimic physical interaction. People only
       | meet in person, apprehensively, for reproductive purposes
       | 
       | - one of the main supporting characters is an extreme extrovert
       | who subliminally craves physical human contact. Due to society's
       | rules, the only thing she's able to do is take lots of socially
       | distanced telepresence walks with a friend.
       | 
       | This book was written in 1957.
        
         | intergalplan wrote:
         | This has a lot less to do with the modern world than Lain does.
         | Yes, even with COVID. Do you mean it's predicting some future
         | state of the world that you expect to come to be?
         | 
         | The "meeting in person is odd, interactions are typically
         | machine-mediated and remote" thing was also done (most
         | famously) by EM Forster (1909; collected 1928), and also by
         | Clarke's _The City and the Stars_ (1956 publication; based on a
         | 1948 novella, though I don 't know whether that element was
         | present in it as I've only read the novel). Probably a bunch of
         | others, too. I'd rank the oracular qualities of Asimov's sci-fi
         | fairly low, so far as that matters ( _shrug_ ), especially for
         | any original and not already-tropey-by-the-time-he-did-it ideas
         | of his.
         | 
         | Asimov's use of the trope in that story had more to do with
         | creating a setting as much the opposite of the packed-like-
         | sardines city-world of the first Robot Detective book than
         | trying to predict anything, or to present the mostly-remote-
         | interaction society thing as a novel notion _per se_. The
         | defining characteristics of the society on that planet were
         | extreme wealth, individualism, and personal-security paranoia.
         | Their interaction habits fell out of those traits and
         | preferences.
        
         | QuesnayJr wrote:
         | I think about this all the time. When I read it way back when I
         | thought it sounded like an absurd extrapolation of the future.
         | And yet here we are.
        
         | Groxx wrote:
         | If you want to go even further back, I recently discovered "The
         | Machine Stops" from 1909, which covers a fair bit of that:
         | https://web.cs.ucdavis.edu/~rogaway/classes/188/materials/th...
        
         | Ma8ee wrote:
         | What's the title of the book?
        
           | intergalplan wrote:
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Naked_Sun
           | 
           | Third (edit: second) "Robot" novel (human detective pairs up
           | with a robot partner and solves crime mysteries). The world's
           | written that way to provide a polar-opposite setting from
           | earlier settings for that series (an incredibly tightly-
           | packed and bustling city). In both cases, the natives of the
           | worlds have adapted to their situation to the point of
           | pathology--people from Earth (the city-world) tend toward
           | agoraphobia, for instance. The whole setting is part of a
           | sci-fi trend of settings that suppose Earth will become
           | crushingly overcrowded with humans, leaving space as the only
           | escape from that.
           | 
           | EDIT: other poster is correct--I got the book wrong the first
           | time (I had it as The Robots of Dawn, from the same series)
        
           | Jtsummers wrote:
           | It's _The Naked Sun_. The people aren 't averse to in-person
           | contact due to disease (though that is their concern with
           | people from Earth specifically). Nearly every one of the
           | colony worlds (including the one in that book) have, in the
           | books, essentially eradicated disease due to their
           | opportunity to properly quarantine and treat it (versus the
           | massive population still on Earth, you can't as easily wipe
           | out a disease when you still have millions and billions of
           | people living in megacities in close contact with each
           | other). The particular world has a low population and people
           | are spread out, so it's become the social custom to practice
           | physical distancing to an extreme degree (think about the
           | difference between personal space in different countries,
           | then exaggerate it to an extreme).
        
             | munificent wrote:
             | Is this a sci-fi novel, or just a non-fiction account of
             | Scandinavians in Wisconsin?
        
       | hguant wrote:
       | I thought this was a good article, but I wonder at the author's
       | background.
       | 
       | >her hardware expands to turn her bedroom into a dim, electrified
       | jejunum
       | 
       | I'd like to think I'm well read, but who the hell pulls "jejunum"
       | out of their duodenum!
        
         | Fauntleroy wrote:
         | Funnily enough, there's a whole segment of people who simply
         | know words like duodenum, jejunum, etc because a large segment
         | of Metal Gear Solid 2 took place inside the "intestines" of a
         | giant submersible vehicle.
        
         | dane-pgp wrote:
         | I assumed it was a reference to the protagonist's lack of
         | maturity, as in jejune[2], but I admit I had to look up what
         | the word actually meant.
         | 
         | [2] https://www.thefreedictionary.com/jejune
        
           | [deleted]
        
       | anotherman554 wrote:
       | Fun fact, the creative team who did Lain was working on a show
       | called Despera but it was cancelled when the director died.
       | Apparently it's likely to come out in a few years under a new
       | director as it was near fully funded right before Covid hit:
       | 
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Despera
        
       | Der_Einzige wrote:
       | Serial experiments lain is my favorite anime of all time. I'm
       | shocked at hoe obscure it continues to be, even in hacker
       | circles.
       | 
       | I figured that coding in lisp is all she needed for the show to
       | become a cult classic - but here we are...
        
         | intergalplan wrote:
         | https://lainzine.org
         | 
         | (a Neocities site)
        
           | cl0ne wrote:
           | There's also https://lainchan.org (imageboard)
        
             | 14_lain_88 wrote:
             | Please delete this.
        
               | anthk wrote:
               | Follow your leader and delete yourself.
        
               | 14_lain_88 wrote:
               | Please elaborate on your statement. That is, who is my
               | leader and why did she delete herself?
               | 
               | update: I am flagged. Someone informed me this is due to
               | the numbers in my name. I was 14 years old when I first
               | watched Lain and I was born in 1988. This number
               | apparently has an association that is less than positive.
               | Dear mods: feel free to change it to something else, I
               | simply wanted to inform this user that I did not want
               | them to link our website. Thank you and have a nice day.
               | 
               | Remember: It is rude to issue statements of self harm and
               | that those afflicted with mental health problems may be
               | in even the most unexpected of areas. Please be mindful
               | of your words.
        
         | medicineman wrote:
         | >I figured that coding in lisp is all she needed for the show
         | to become a cult classic - but here we are...
         | 
         | Style ain't substance.
        
         | NotPavlovsDog wrote:
         | I remember watching it and wondering what that code language on
         | the screen was.
         | 
         | Alan Kay's classification of modern state of computing as pop
         | culture continues to ring true.
         | 
         | I would have benefited greatly to be exposed to Lisp early on,
         | but it was outside of the info-bubble I was in.
        
       | honkycat wrote:
       | Serial Experiments Lain is everything wonderful about anime. It
       | is violent, dark, scary. In summary: ADULT.
       | 
       | Anime tells stories in a visual format that for years and years
       | you simply could not get anywhere else. Adult genre fiction was
       | not well represented in American media. Even today, adult
       | American cartoons are almost entirely "sitcom" format. They don't
       | want to ever end, and they do not want to tell a story, they want
       | to make more episodes.
       | 
       | Today, people are spoiled with their options for genre fiction.
       | Cowboy Bebop blew my mind as a kid. Berserk was also one of my
       | favorites. I did not think anything could be cooler than Vampire
       | Hunter D. This was before Game of Thrones or The Expanse or any
       | number of other amazing science-fiction or fantasy media we have
       | today. Coming from a small town, it felt like a secret that
       | nobody else knew about and I loved immersing myself in this grim,
       | beautiful, foreign worlds[0].
       | 
       | A lot of anime has a lot of gross "fan service" that objectifies
       | their female protagonists, and that is something I was never a
       | fan of. It was something you tolerated because there wasn't
       | anywhere else to go.
       | 
       | Lain is a great example of all of this. Where else are you going
       | to get a gorgeously rendered cyberpunk-horror series?
       | 
       | 0: Probably at a younger age than I should have been allowed to.
       | Though honestly I don't see myself censoring everything from my
       | kids. Part of the draw was the adult nature and feeling like I
       | was getting away with something.
        
         | anthk wrote:
         | European comics and novels did that before Japan ;). And with
         | far more mature and adult themes.
        
           | honkycat wrote:
           | I'm talking about specifically animation, though. There are
           | plenty of examples of excellent novels and comic books from
           | all over the world. However, they represent a completely
           | different tier of production cost. Comics and novels are
           | cheap. Animation takes a team of sometimes hundreds of
           | animators, sound designers, art directors, etc.
        
             | anthk wrote:
             | >Comics and novels are cheap
             | 
             | Manga too, but in Japan it's much better praised than
             | anime.
        
         | dumb1224 wrote:
         | Serial Experiments Lain felt very much like a dark dream when I
         | watched it. And because it was so different from the mainstream
         | stereotypical anime which can easily fit into well defined (and
         | IMO overdone) categories.
         | 
         | But I also think it's different from the sort of 'aim at
         | western audience' type of anime (to be frank the appeal is a
         | bit different from asia perspective, at least for me). The dark
         | universes of Akira and Ghost in a Shell have some equivalent in
         | the cyberpunk genre in the west, e.g elements of a dystopian
         | society, which do not feature too often in the Japanese anime
         | world. In that sense Lain really experiments with the genre and
         | rebel against the typical characters and gave it a unique style
         | (hence the name I guess :)
        
         | ad404b8a372f2b9 wrote:
         | Have any good adult animes come out these past few years?
         | There's always been a lot of gross stuff but I'm starting to
         | lose faith in the medium when I see stuff like Mushoku Tensei
         | being praised as wonderful in the mainstream, the latest few
         | seasons have felt like complete garbage.
        
           | GloriousKoji wrote:
           | Adult as in serious and less mindless tropes and
           | entertainment to touch on more philosophical topics?
           | 
           | Wonder Egg Priority comes to mind but due to production
           | delays the final episode won't be coming out until a few
           | months so it will leaving you hanging for the conclusion. In
           | this age of gatcha-game, manga or light novel anime
           | adaptations it's a rare anime only series. It follows teenage
           | girls fighting what are essential nightmares with poppy color
           | and well animated scenes but it's a symbolic battle with
           | serious issues such as hikkomori, homosexuality, sexual abuse
           | and suicide.
        
           | Zevis wrote:
           | I'm generally depressed by the state of anime. It seems the
           | industry has generally taken "adult" to mean violent. I grew
           | up watching the gruesome stuff. But the industry still seems
           | to be in that edgy teen phase 99% of the time (3 decades
           | later) and they have no idea how to handle adult themes
           | without copious amounts of blood.
        
           | dfxm12 wrote:
           | Assuming by "adult", you mean an R rating and not an NC-17
           | rating, check out Dorohedoro. I think it's on Netflix.
        
           | Riverheart wrote:
           | "The Promised Neverland" if you stick with season 1. Heard
           | season 2 went in a different direction from the manga
           | unfortunately.
        
           | specialist wrote:
           | I quite enjoyed Castlevania. Other than stuff I watched with
           | my kid (Dragonball, Avatar, Princess Monoke, etc) I don't
           | know anything about anime.
        
           | lhorie wrote:
           | I've stopped following anime for several years now. The
           | trajectory of one punch man from it's humble doodle-like
           | beginnings to mainstream speak volumes about the state of
           | commercialization these days IMHO.
           | 
           | The isekai genre is definitely overused at this point, just
           | as slice of life got done to death before it.
           | 
           | Lately, I've been having more luck w/ manhwa (Korean manga).
           | If steampunk sci-fi with social commentary plot is your cup
           | of tea, I've been finding Leviathan enjoyable.
        
             | riskable wrote:
             | > The isekai genre is definitely overused at this point
             | 
             | Yet somehow we can't get enough of it!
             | 
             | I mean, I know _I 'm_ a sucker for isekai. Some of it is
             | poorly animated with terrible stereotypes (for anime) and
             | far too much fan service but it's not isekai that's cliche
             | it's the story that's being told inside of it that could
             | be.
             | 
             | I'd argue that isekai is one of the best and truest forms
             | of sci-fi: Instead of just "drama, in space!" or "drama, in
             | the future!" isekais are (normally) answering the question,
             | "what if?"
             | 
             | Like, _what if_ you were reincarnated in another world but
             | you weren 't human? What if you were a monster? Or a
             | machine? Or immortal? Overpowered because of nature or
             | overpowered because of nurture (i.e. the ability to carry
             | forward knowledge from _this_ world)? The possibilities are
             | endless!
             | 
             | There's _so_ many great isekai anime that explore these and
             | other questions. Some get quite detailed and realistic (in
             | terms of emotions or the sorts of problems one might run
             | into) while others are more about comedy or relationships
             | (again,  "drama, in <another world>!").
             | 
             | Some of the more interesting aspects/concepts of isekai
             | anime that I've watched:                   - Main character
             | is not the only one that was brought to another world *but
             | the others who also came are from completely different
             | alternate universes* (Shield Hero).         - An *entire
             | group of people* get sent to another world (Arifureta, So
             | I'm A Spider, So What?, Grimgar)         - The other world
             | is *super early* feudal-ish (so primitive they don't know
             | how to make paper or even crochet... yet) and the main
             | character remembers all the arts & crafts stuff her mother
             | and grandmother taught her (Ascendance of a Bookworm).
             | Hehe: How well do *you* understand the process of making
             | paper (think you could figure it out in that situation? =)
             | - What if your mom came to the other world with you? (this
             | one is actually so over the top and ridiculous but the
             | question itself is kind of interesting: Do You Love Your
             | Mom and Her Two-Hit Multi-Target Attacks?)
             | 
             | Some of those aren't _the point_ of the anime but they 're
             | interesting questions/situations nonetheless.
        
               | m4rtink wrote:
               | The Isekai genre goes deep, _very very deep_. Anime
               | adaptations only really cover the often good and /or
               | mainstream series.
               | 
               | If you start digging into Isekai manga, there at least
               | one order of magnitude more works to choose from. Then if
               | you look into light novels, there is even more stuff,
               | again with just a fraction getting manga adaptations.
               | 
               | But the real breath of Isekai are web novels - that's
               | where most of the current hit novels started, on websites
               | like "I'll become a novelist" (https://syosetu.com/)
               | where people just type away their fantasies with minimal
               | friction, one chapter at a time and often with lots of
               | direct feedback from the community.
               | 
               | That can result in even more original/crazy ideas being
               | explored, such as:
               | 
               | - What if you were transported to a fantasy world with
               | your _solar powered camping vehicle_ ? (Himekishi to
               | Camping Car)
               | 
               | - What if you became your game character in a fantasy
               | world that has a different gender (female) and is a total
               | glass cannon ? (Alice Tale)
               | 
               | - Whats more fun than raiding dungeons ? Running them!
               | (Lazy Dungeon Master)
               | 
               | - What if there is stable gateway between the other and
               | the modern world and you can go back and forth ? (quite a
               | few series actually, even some mainstream ones like Gate
               | or Isekai Shokudo)
               | 
               | - Fantasy is nice but steampunk and heavy industry is
               | even better! There are quite a few rather non-mainstream
               | series that introduce robots and guns into an Isekai
               | setting. Yet there are others that set out to
               | industrialize the whole thing as including building stuff
               | like railroads.
               | 
               | - What if magic was just a foreign language or alphabet
               | the locals aren't good at but you are, as it's your
               | native language ?
               | 
               | - What if you are the only one who can see the GUI in an
               | Isekai world ? Nothing better than meeting a famous
               | aristocrat with "class: vampire" blinking above his head
               | telling you about mysterious kidnapping cases in the
               | vicinity. Or "goblin shaman [invisible]" floating in the
               | air of dark cave. (Skill Takers World Domination")
               | 
               | - What if due to some mistake no one person gets
               | reincarnated as a son of poor aristocrat but _3_ - a high
               | school student, a salaryman and _Nobunaga_ ?
               | 
               | - What if you actually got reincarnated to the buggy mess
               | of an MMO you helped to develop (Death March) ?
               | 
               | - What if a modern Aegis cruiser or even the full
               | Japanese archipelago (including some disputed islands, no
               | less ;-) ) gets transported to an Isekai ?
               | 
               | Really the possibilities are endless. There is definitely
               | a lot of repetition and series that frankly are not any
               | good (especially between web novels, thanks to the same
               | zero entry barriers that enable so much creativity in the
               | first place) but there are many gems to be found if you
               | search a bit. :)
        
               | livueta wrote:
               | > Aegis cruiser
               | 
               | Destroyer! But thanks, I laughed really hard at the
               | realization that Zipang is indeed an isekai of sorts.
               | 
               | Thanks to that show,
               | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daqing_Oil_Field is one
               | of my favorite historical counterfactuals.
        
               | monus21 wrote:
               | Yeah, I know what you mean. I've read far too many isekai
               | manga/manhwa than I should have (not super into anime).
               | 
               | Shield Hero was good but FFF-Class Trashero probably tops
               | the lot for me. Really good storytelling and incredible
               | character development.
        
               | lhorie wrote:
               | I'll admit that I do like the premises of various isekais
               | - kumo desuga nanika (I'm a spider so what) and honzuki
               | no gekokujo (ascendance of a bookworm) that you mentioned
               | are in fact two of my favorites - but it's worth
               | remembering that these are light novel adaptations.
               | Personally I think there's a bit of loss of "magic"
               | directly attributable to bringing the story out of the
               | text-based medium, particularly in the case of honzuki no
               | gekokujo. I thought there was something very special
               | about how Myne was sickly and could not physically go see
               | how Parue was harvested, and how her family's description
               | of the process was as bewildering to her (as an other-
               | worlder) as it would be to any of us. It's a really
               | clever storytelling device that masterfully helps convey
               | the protagonist's situation.
               | 
               | Another example: the orc arc of moonlight sculptor was an
               | absolutely epic read in text format; I don't think the
               | cartoon format can really do it justice.
        
           | bozzcl wrote:
           | Recently? Attack on Titan might be one of the best. It's a
           | little too shounen-ish at times, but the setting is pretty
           | mature and has absolutely no fan service. I've heard Vinland
           | Saga is also great. The Promised Neverland is not about
           | adults, but it's a very serious show and I personally liked
           | it a lot.
           | 
           | Unfortunately, the rest of my backlog is mostly just older
           | shows I've been meaning to watch for a while. Golden Kamuy is
           | probably one of the newest and it's still not that new. Same
           | for Parasyte, which has some of the best body horror I've
           | seen ever. High on my list is also Shin Sekai Yori, which
           | I've heard nothing but praise for.
        
             | munk-a wrote:
             | For a recent anime that's a pretty good nab I'd actually
             | suggest RE: Zero - it also starts out a little bit too
             | shounen-y but gets really interesting in its exploration of
             | both our relationships with others, pain and death. As
             | someone who really enjoyed philosophy in uni it poses some
             | really interesting questions.
             | 
             | I'm also interested but not yet totally committed to Tower
             | of God - there's some really neat stuff there, along with a
             | lot of shounen - but I think it's a pretty solid production
             | all together.
        
           | m4rtink wrote:
           | I would say quite a few, but they don't really seem that way.
           | 
           | Shuumatsu Nani Shitemasuka? Isogashii Desuka? Sukutte Moratte
           | Ii Desuka? - might look like another lightweight fantasy
           | harem story but actually has one of the best romantic pairs
           | recently and handles some pretty hard topics.
           | 
           | Actually I would say a Shield Hero is another one. It might
           | look like yet another cookie cutter isekai show, even with
           | some of the heroes being summoned taking it like if it was
           | just a game. But it turns out it's a real and rather brutal
           | feudal world where your actions have real consequences and a
           | lot of people have very insidious evil and inhuman agenda.
           | 
           | Hell, I would actually even call Kemono Friends (series 1) an
           | adult series. What looks like a funny child series with
           | anthropomorphic animals turns out into something much deeper
           | once all the various hints and fragments of information start
           | to fall in place.
        
           | teraflop wrote:
           | First of all, I'd _slightly_ push back on the way you 've
           | framed your question. I agree there's a ton of crap in the
           | world of anime, but whether a show has been created with care
           | and thoughtfulness doesn't necessarily correlate with whether
           | or not it contains "adult themes" that make it unsuitable for
           | kids. I mean, Evangelion is considered a classic despite
           | being aimed at a teenage audience.
           | 
           | With that caveat, and bearing in mind that preferences are
           | extremely subjective, here are a few recent shows that I'd
           | suggest checking out:
           | 
           | The Night Is Short, Walk On Girl (a surreal interpersonal
           | comedy/drama movie, from the writer and director of The
           | Tatami Galaxy)
           | 
           | SSSS.Gridman (a very loose reboot of a 90's live-action
           | tokusatsu series, with a lot of stylistic homages to
           | Evangelion; has a sequel, SSSS.Dynazenon, which is currently
           | airing)
           | 
           | Girls' Last Tour (a slow, contemplative journey through the
           | ruins of a post-industrial civilization)
           | 
           | Thunderbolt Fantasy (although it's debatable whether this one
           | counts as "anime"; fantasy puppet wuxia, from the writer of
           | Puella Magi Madoka Magica and Psycho-Pass; it's deliberately
           | kind of over-the-top, but with a great command of pacing and
           | characterization)
        
           | intergalplan wrote:
           | Psycho-Pass. Sci-fi future where everyone's got a
           | psychological profile built & monitored by a computer system,
           | used for all the things you'd expect it to be, including to
           | nab criminals before they crime. Our protagonist is a young,
           | idealistic woman who's become a cop, basically. She'll be
           | leading a squad of people whose profiles are considered
           | dangerously outside the norm, whose job it is to catch other
           | deviants (can't have normal-psych-profile people exposed to
           | that kind of violence, after all, and anyway it takes a
           | deviant to think like a deviant). It goes from there.
           | 
           | Puella Magi Madoka Magica if you're into Anime-
           | deconstructing-Anime. "What if Magical Girl... but actually,
           | when you think about it that's entirely horrifying". There've
           | been a bunch of other attempts at similar things, usually not
           | as successful.
           | 
           | Vinland Saga for heightened, violent historical drama.
           | 
           | Mushishi if very-very-Japanese things aren't a turn-off.
           | Largely episodic series about a guy who deals with dangerous
           | spirits. Which I know reads like it'd be terrible or "oh my
           | god not another one of these shows", but it's not. Slow-
           | paced, brooding, bittersweet.
           | 
           | Anohana: The Flower We Saw That Day. Short slice-of-life
           | series about kids, but actually about accepting loss. IDK how
           | "adult" it is, but it's pretty good (I mean actually-good,
           | not anime-good).
           | 
           | Carole and Tuesday. Again, not sure how "adult" it is but
           | it's just charming and heartwarming, while also not being
           | terrible, which is a rare enough combo in any media to be
           | worth a look, I'd say. From the creator of Cowboy Bebop, and
           | also heavily music-focused.
           | 
           | May not look like it from this list, but I don't actually
           | watch that much anime. I know there's a fair amount of really
           | good stuff I haven't seen, plus a huge pile of OK-but-not-
           | great. I keep up with a couple ongoing series I didn't put on
           | this list because they're definitely not aimed at adults (My
           | Hero Academia, for instance). I find it's really hard to find
           | good recommendations for anime unless they're personal recs
           | from a person I know well--but I also find that's true of
           | most other genre-fic sorts of things. Recommendations from
           | Internet randos or "best-of" lists of fantasy are often (IMO)
           | full of garbage, and sci-fi's barely better. Ditto comic
           | books.
        
         | baybal2 wrote:
         | I watched one Japanese cartoon once in my childhood.
         | 
         | There was a flying robots flying killing everybody. Do you know
         | its's name? I always wanted to rewatch it, but have no idea
         | what's its name.
         | 
         | I'm trying to piece together what I watched in childhood.
         | 
         | Since a few years ago, people who are more into cartoons cued
         | me on that:
         | 
         | Blue alien who shoots lasers from its bra is Guyver, and that
         | it's not an alien, and is a guy.
         | 
         | A communist coup in space is Ryvius, and on a closer look
         | communists were actually high class cadets with parents in high
         | up places, and not the other way around.
        
         | grawprog wrote:
         | Growing up, i was a lot like you. The stories, artwork and
         | animation in a lot of those darker, more adult animes blew my
         | mind. I remember the first time I saw Akira, like you when I
         | was probably way too young, My mind just couldn't even really
         | grasp what i was watching. I'd never seen anything like that
         | before. I ended up somehow watching a dubbed version of ninja
         | scroll that came on TV some time after that and i was pretty
         | hooked.
         | 
         | I find though, I can't get into newer anime, or a lot of newer
         | animation in general these days. I really miss the old style of
         | animation and artwork, both western and Japanese. Every series
         | or movie had its own unique style, some of the artwork was so
         | fantastic and just mind blowing. Some of the landscapes and
         | scenery created in older animation could take you to some of
         | the most amazing or terrifying or strange places you couldn't
         | even imagine.
         | 
         | I find a lot of animation to look generic and overproduced
         | these days and in general, the format's become fairly formulaic
         | and nothing really stands out as special in the ways a lot of
         | those older animes did. Don't get me wrong, i have seen some
         | fantastic modern animation. I was speaking more in general.
         | 
         | I keep hoping that we'll have this Renaissance of artists who
         | want to go back to the traditional ways just to break this new
         | mold animation seems to have gotten itself stuck in.
        
           | Jtsummers wrote:
           | Getting into anime in the US in the early 00s via friends who
           | got into it in the mid-to-late 90s, there was a _lot_ of
           | filtering that had already happened here in the US. So
           | something sort of missed was the realization that Sturgeon 's
           | Law (ninety percent of everything is crap) still applied to
           | anime. It's just that in the US most of what had made it here
           | was generally the better quality by some measure (better
           | animation quality, better story, better characters, etc.).
           | Not universally, crap still made it through, but it wasn't
           | 90% crap.
           | 
           | Fast forward to today, you have access to the full gamut of
           | anime series and movies. Completely unfiltered by others
           | unless you specifically only watch things that others (that
           | you have some trust in or similar taste to) have watched and
           | promote. And thanks to legit streaming services and less than
           | legit streaming services and torrents, you can much more
           | easily be one of the first people in the US to watch
           | something so it's now much easier to find the crap if you
           | don't specifically go through the filtering process of time
           | or critics or peer group taste and recommendations.
        
             | grawprog wrote:
             | In Canada it was a little different than the US. We had
             | some early animes that were actually dubbed up here you
             | guys didn't have. We also had a totally different version
             | of Dragonball up here originally.
             | 
             | I noticed back then too, watching different dubbed versions
             | of different animes, the censoring would be different
             | depending on whether it was American or not.
             | 
             | We also didn't really get much funimation stuff until later
             | on, which as far as i know, whatever you think about their
             | early work, was pretty fundamental in popularizing anime in
             | the west.
             | 
             | Honestly, back then most of the anime I watched were fan
             | translations of varying qualities I found on file sharing
             | programs i watched because I found them recommended on
             | websites.
             | 
             | Once I found out the anime we got here was often heavily
             | altered compared to its original form, I kinda just focused
             | on what was recommended online. My friends weren't really
             | into anime or anything so it wasn't really something I
             | could get peer recommendations on or anything.
             | 
             | I never really got into a lot of those popular ones of the
             | time. I just kept searching out the weird obscure stuff
             | that never made it here.
             | 
             | These days though, there's so much, I honestly wouldn't
             | even know where to begin. I guess the last 'anime' I
             | watched was Castlevania, but I'm not even sure if I would
             | have classed that as anime back in the day.
        
         | saalweachter wrote:
         | The great thing about animation is that once you accept the
         | cartoonish caricatures as real people, you get all of the
         | special effects for free. You don't have that jarring
         | disconnect between the actors and the (bad) special effects,
         | and you don't need to husband your special effects budget
         | carefully, saving it for a few big scenes. You can fill each
         | frame with impossibilities that are just as real as the people
         | filling them.
        
         | trentnix wrote:
         | A month or so ago I finally watched the Neon Genesis Evangelion
         | series after hearing about it for more than 20 years. After
         | slogging through a few episodes of predictable awkard-
         | teenagers-pilot-giant-robots-to-save-the-world it finally
         | reveals itself as a stunning exploration into the minds of
         | troubled youth who are, effectively, subjected to a barrage of
         | traumatic crises. It's a deep, rich world with complex
         | characters, all with Herculean responsibilities and human
         | weaknesses.
         | 
         | I'll have to watch Lain now, thanks to your comment.
         | 
         | I enjoy the usual suspects: Akira, Ghost in the Shell
         | (including Standalone Complex), and Cowboy Bebop immensely. I
         | like Robotech, though much of it is nostalgia. But I've found
         | straying from the essentials to be challenging for my very
         | Western tastes.
         | 
         | I tried to watch Stein's Gate and thought it was very clever,
         | but the awkward romance and over-the-top characteristics of the
         | main character were a bit too much. Knights of Sidonia and
         | Attack on Titan got too weird, too quickly. I was too old for
         | Dragonball. There's a lot of Western-focused, Japanese-animated
         | options out there, but they almost universally lack the depth
         | of their anime counterparts.
         | 
         | I'd love some recommendations if you have any, whether they be
         | newer stuff or classics that I've overlooked.
        
           | vladTheInhaler wrote:
           | If you're looking for series that really focus on the
           | "character study" aspect, then I would recommend _Welcome to
           | the NHK_ and _Tatami Galaxy_. Both series deal a lot with
           | regret, hopelessness, and isolation, which I think are themes
           | that might be especially potent given this past year. NHK in
           | particular is a very intimate look inside the head of a
           | deeply flawed person. Sometimes it 's hilarious, other times
           | extremely tragic and moving. I happened to come across it at
           | a point where I was very depressed and struggling to find
           | direction in life, and it affected me deeply. Fair warning -
           | the subtitles in Tatami Galaxy can sometimes be hard to
           | follow because the characters talk so damn fast. The very
           | first scene is especially bad offender, so give it a couple
           | minutes before giving up for that reason.
        
           | MadcapJake wrote:
           | Eureka Seven is a great scifi anime that gets missed due to
           | some similarities to NGE.
           | 
           | Mushishi is an excellent philosophical supernatural journey.
           | 
           | Samurai Champloo is very accessible samurai stories (Samurai
           | X is less accessible but good)
           | 
           | Soul Eater (and pretty much anything by the Bones crew) is
           | great unqique fantasy with some interesting themes. Wolf's
           | Rain is another thoughtful one.
        
           | nerdponx wrote:
           | > It's a deep, rich world with complex characters, all with
           | Herculean responsibilities and human weaknesses.*
           | 
           | Planetes was recommended in the recent HN thread about space
           | junk, and I ended up watching the whole series over the
           | course of 4 days. It's similar to Evangelion, in that the
           | first few episodes are goofy and awkward (except they're in
           | their early 20s instead of teens). But by the end of the show
           | I was blown away.
           | 
           | It's effectively an adult coming-of-age story, set against a
           | sad, beautiful near-future world in which everyone is just
           | trying to live their lives and get by. The space debris stuff
           | is fun and maybe metaphorical, but from a plot perpsective
           | it's almost parenthetical. I'm too young and immature to have
           | words for the journey it took me on, but (much like
           | Evangelion) it was exactly what I needed at the time in my
           | life when I first saw it.
           | 
           | Survive through the "ninja" episode (you'll know which one I
           | mean when you see it), and you will be rewarded.
           | 
           | Edit: apparently the anime and manga diverge significantly
           | because the show was finished first. I intend to read the
           | latter after I've had a chance to cool off from the former!
           | 
           | > Attack on Titan got too weird, too quickly
           | 
           | It picks up and starts to tie together. I almost didn't watch
           | the second season, but a friend convinced me to and I don't
           | regret it at all. Apparently the show and manga track closely
           | together in plot, so you don't need to read if you've already
           | watched, or vice versa (unless you want to read the last
           | 20-ish chapters if you don't want to wait for the last season
           | of the show to come out).
           | 
           | Don't expect profundity like Evangelion, although the plot is
           | clearly inspired by Evangelion in some ways. But do expect
           | high drama, long threads of intrigue, and whopper plot
           | twists. It's one of the most exciting TV shows I've ever
           | seen.
           | 
           | > I was too old for Dragonball
           | 
           | Too old to take it seriously, maybe! But it's still good fun,
           | just like Space Ghost and Looney Tunes. If I ever have kids,
           | I plan to watch it with them (although IIRC there were some
           | racist and sexist moments that would best be elided).
           | 
           | > Western-focused, Japanese-animated options
           | 
           | I also have to recommend _Avatar: The Last Airbender_! Its
           | target audience and Western origin belies its depth.
        
             | vladTheInhaler wrote:
             | Cannot recomment Planetes enough! I'm watching it again
             | with my girlfriend, and after some initial skepticism, she
             | was very much onboard. And we haven't even gotten to the
             | really good stuff yet.
        
           | dfxm12 wrote:
           | I'd suggest Inuyashiki. It's somewhat robot-y and explores
           | responsibility and human weakness in a different way from
           | Evangelion. I think it's on Amazon Prime.
        
           | livueta wrote:
           | A lot of great recommendations have already been made, but I
           | wanted to throw out _Kuuchuu Buranko_ (https://en.m.wikipedia
           | .org/wiki/List_of_Welcome_to_Irabu%27s...) as a personal
           | favorite that doesn't get named as much as I think it
           | deserves in this sort of conversation. Much closer to
           | _Tatami_ than to _Lain_.
           | 
           | While I'm at it: speaking of _Tatami_ , you should also check
           | out Yuasa's _Kaiba_ : it's a lot more abstract than _Tatami_
           | but ultimately ticks a lot of the same boxes.
           | 
           | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Descending_Stories:_Showa_Ge.
           | .. is arguably the best character-focused drama of the last
           | few years.
           | 
           | Satoshi Kon has also already been mentioned, but I'd
           | specifically call out _Paranoia Agent_ as it 's often less
           | prominent than his feature films, yet (imo) is the most
           | incisive of his stuff.
        
             | serf wrote:
             | >Satoshi Kon has also already been mentioned, but I'd
             | specifically call out Paranoia Agent as it's often less
             | prominent than his feature films, yet (imo) is the most
             | incisive of his stuff.
             | 
             | ignoring the good story and psychological elements,
             | _Paranoia Agent_ is worth watching for the sheer style and
             | drawing methods.
             | 
             | Satoshi Kon was _always_ stylish, but Paranoia Agent is one
             | of the best examples.
        
           | Fargren wrote:
           | Anything by Satoshi Kon is great, and in line with what
           | you've been watching. If I had to pick, Perfect Blue for
           | movies and Paranoia Agent for series.
           | 
           | In the lighter more children spectrum, Mamoru Hosoda does
           | beautiful things like Summer Wars or The Girl Who Leapt
           | Through Time.
           | 
           | The Tatami Galaxy is another great one
        
           | dumb1224 wrote:
           | For EVA I had quite an interesting experience. When I watched
           | it I streamed it but was dubbed in cantonese. I can only
           | understand a little but still need to rely on chinese
           | subtitles. The tone of cantonese is of course different from
           | the original Japanese voicing actors. But, surprisingly I was
           | so immersed in its world it felt it was just the language
           | that attach whatever emotions to the characters. The voice of
           | Shinji e.g never felt displaced or making me associate with
           | people from south part of China. They sound genuine and the
           | monologues are so expressive and powerful to make my mind
           | forget it actually is cantonese.
        
           | entropicdrifter wrote:
           | If you liked Robotech and Evangelion, you might want to check
           | out some of the Universal Century timeline Gundam shows.
           | Mobile Suit Gundam and Zeta Gundam are the classics, but for
           | something with gorgeous modern animation, check out Mobile
           | Suit Gundam: The Origin, it's a prequel series that follows
           | the main rival character from the original through his
           | childhood and up to the start of the war that's the setting
           | for the original Mobile Suit Gundam.
           | 
           | Oh, and check out Legend Of The Galactic Heroes. It's an epic
           | along the lines of Romance Of The Three Kingdoms, with like
           | 30 'main' characters and maybe 300+ named characters
           | throughout its run. Huge in scope and scale, but always
           | willing to take a couple minutes and reflect on philosophy,
           | politics, and the horrors of war. It's a seriously adult
           | show.
        
             | kitsunesoba wrote:
             | > Oh, and check out Legend Of The Galactic Heroes. It's an
             | epic along the lines of Romance Of The Three Kingdoms, with
             | like 30 'main' characters and maybe 300+ named characters
             | throughout its run. Huge in scope and scale, but always
             | willing to take a couple minutes and reflect on philosophy,
             | politics, and the horrors of war. It's a seriously adult
             | show.
             | 
             | Would echo this recommendation. It's a massive commitment
             | to watch fully (even just the main series, not including
             | spinoffs), but it's quite good.
        
               | m4rtink wrote:
               | Words of warning though - if you watch Legend Of The
               | Galactic Heroes (or read the novels), read Webers
               | Honorverse books as well some of the space battle
               | material on Orions arm 99% of warship depictions in SF
               | will look to you unrealistically small-scale and mundane
               | in comparison.
               | 
               | Like who goes in to battle with less than 20 thousand
               | warships (LotGH), closes to less than 100 000 km before
               | firing (Honorverse) or starts a campaign without god-AI
               | driven relativistic autowar swarms of death (Orions Arm)?
               | ;)
        
             | baybal2 wrote:
             | > Legend Of The Galactic Heroes
             | 
             | I only recently found that it was a cartoon originally.
             | 
             | I read it as a novell like 20 years ago.
        
           | honkycat wrote:
           | If you haven't watched End of Evangelion and the sequel
           | movies, those are my favorite parts of the series.
           | 
           | Gurren Lagann is a wonderful homage to other mecha series.
           | The series evolves in a REALLY interesting way, it blew my
           | mind. Is worth sticking it out to the end!
           | 
           | Berserk (2016) is awesome, though I go back and forth on
           | weather it transcends it's own violence. I'm probably just
           | being a prude though, since nobody else seems to care haha.
           | 
           | DevilMan Crybaby(2018) is worth a watch. It is a gorgeously
           | animated edgelord anime, run through a modern filter to make
           | it more palatable.
           | 
           | Dorohedoro (2020) is bizarre and nihilistic and is written by
           | a female author which is cool.
           | 
           | JoJo's Bizarre Adventure (2012 - present) suffers from being
           | the product of a "less woke" 80's and 90's but man... I love
           | it so much. It is so dumb and fun. There is a LOT of it but
           | you just have to go along for the ride.
           | 
           | One Punch Man (2015) is great fun.
           | 
           | I tend to follow individual studios and directors.
           | 
           | Hiroyuki Imaishi has been consistently excellent.
           | 
           | Satoshi Kon is a legend, pick ANYTHING by him and you will
           | not be disappointed.
           | 
           | Shinichiro Watanabe. I'm especially fond of Cowboy Bebop and
           | Samurai Champloo.
           | 
           | Studio Trigger makes great stuff.
        
             | perardi wrote:
             | [cracks knuckles, adjust sunglasses]
             | 
             |  _Kick reason to the curb and do the impossible!_
             | 
             | Sorry.
             | 
             | Gurren Lagann, paired with Evangelion, remains one of my
             | favorites. Though it's a different production crew, it is
             | the same studio, and it's fascinating to watch them as a
             | counterpoint. There is an obvious point where the main
             | character in Gurren Lagann could, and perhaps should,
             | break, but hope comes through. It's the optimistic version
             | of NGE.
             | 
             | Also, their ridiculous explanation for where all this mass-
             | energy comes from, and the consequences? Fun.
        
           | agumonkey wrote:
           | Also Mitsuo Iso (one of the lead animator) off-time animation
           | technique is quite rare.
        
           | wcarss wrote:
           | So many recommendations, but no Trigun yet. Starts off very
           | silly, but goes to some good places over its single season
           | run. At least, I sure felt it did when I was 13.
           | 
           | It's a western/sci-fi set in a vast desert-dwelling society,
           | focusing on the legend of the mysterious criminal Vash, with
           | a 60 billion dollar bounty on his head, usually called by the
           | nickname "Vash The Stampede", who wreaks destruction and
           | mayhem wherever he turns up.
           | 
           | We follow around a goof who looks _just_ like him.
        
             | Rhinobird wrote:
             | The bit towards the end with Millie and Wolfwood makes me
             | cry.
        
           | throwamon wrote:
           | (To be clear where I'm coming from: I'm not what you'd call
           | an otaku, haven't watched many things of this kind. I really
           | detest over-the-top stuff. I prefer realism to fantasy but
           | can enoy it if it helps with the plot. I've watched and
           | enjoyed Evangelion (wasn't enjoying it at all in the
           | beginning but when it started getting "psychological" I loved
           | it) and Ghost In The Shell, still haven't but want to watch
           | the others you mentioned. I also watched Stein's Gate and
           | felt exactly the way you did.)
           | 
           | Death Note is awesome, especially the first half. There's a
           | bit of cringy overconfident adolescent personality going on,
           | but I think it's all for the best considering the plot.
           | 
           | Monster is one I'm torn about. The themes it touches on are
           | just perfect for a great dark story, but I feel like it
           | under-delivers by always making it sound like it's gonna get
           | really dark but never making it so. There's quite a bit of
           | "semi-filler" episodes. Thought-provoking but never goes as
           | deep as I'd like.
           | 
           | One movie I'd recommend is Perfect Blue. Realistic
           | psychological suspense/horror with great animation.
           | 
           | Not at all the same genre, but Welcome To The NHK is pretty
           | nice if you want some realistic "light-hearted dark humor"
           | (if there's such a thing), but maybe not if you don't relate
           | to being a hikikomori (or social recluse in general). There's
           | over-the-top characteristics, especially in the first
           | episodes, but it gets better. Watch, say, 10 episodes; if you
           | don't love it by then, it may not be for you.
           | 
           | EDIT: Oh, I also watched Ergo Proxy in an overnight binge so
           | I honestly can't remember much about it. A lot of people like
           | it, I found it really boring and felt too grandiose for what
           | actually happened in the end. There's an interesting story
           | behind it all, but I had to resort to reading fan theories to
           | get it.
           | 
           | EDIT2: For the sake of completeness, the show I actually love
           | the most is Avatar (The Last Airbender. I'm right now
           | watching the sequel and still making up my mind on it).
           | Possibly because I was a kid when I first watched it, but it
           | still really moves me. And yes, I said before I prefer
           | realistic stuff, but this is one of the greatest exceptions.
           | It's also not dark by any means - it's a kid's show after all
           | -, plenty of light-hearted humor and all, but there are many
           | many things I'd say even an adult can get from watching it.
        
           | flobosg wrote:
           | If you liked the subversion aspect of NGE, then Puella Magi
           | Madoka Magica might be up your alley.
           | 
           | EDIT: Add Revolutionary Girl Utena to the list, although it
           | might be considered somewhat repetitive and _way_ too
           | symbolic.
        
           | freeflight wrote:
           | Welcome to the N.H.K is an interesting exploration of the
           | hikimori phenomena.
           | 
           | Mushishi is a bit "standard anime fare" but I found it
           | surprisingly wholesome and emotional.
           | 
           | Samurai Champloo is a very well drawn, animated, and stylish
           | show with an amazing soundtrack by nujabes.
           | 
           | Fullmetal Panic! is _very_ mecha shonen, but probably my
           | favorite of the genre without having to delve into the more
           | massive franchises like Gundam with it 's bazillion different
           | shows.
           | 
           | Also: Check out Satoshi Kon's stuff like Perfect Blue or
           | Paprika.
        
           | teekert wrote:
           | I also enjoyed Ergo Proxy, Texhnolyze and Planetes. Ghost in
           | the Shell is still the only movie I revisit every now and
           | then (out of all movies ever). They are all slow, I want to
           | take the time to watch them again some day.
           | 
           | Very different but I also enjoyed Naruto as I grew up myself.
           | It's long (but you can skip all fillers) but sometimes very
           | deep. I enjoyed Kenshin but never finished it.
           | 
           | As mentioned below Samurai Champloo is also nice and Steins
           | Gate (nice, strange atmosphere) and Death Note: very
           | psychological: He thinks that I think that he thinks and I'm
           | smarter so... Love that. And One Punch Man, puts a smile on
           | my face.
        
         | agumonkey wrote:
         | I see no mention of Gunnm (battle angel alita) OAV was nicely
         | done even though short. The manga has lot to offer somehow.
        
         | tacotacotaco wrote:
         | > Even today, adult American cartoons are almost entirely
         | "sitcom" format.
         | 
         | Agreed. Check out Final Space. It relies a bit on comedy in the
         | beginning but grows into a drama. Give it a few episodes.
        
       | mtzaldo wrote:
       | close the world, open the next
        
         | dane-pgp wrote:
         | It's perhaps worth noting here that the tagline is actually
         | stylised as:
         | 
         | "Close the world, open the nExt."[0]
         | 
         | with the capitalisation presumably being a reference to the
         | company NeXT, founded by Steve Jobs.[1]
         | 
         | [0] https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0500092/taglines
         | 
         | [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NeXT
        
           | kitsunesoba wrote:
           | Seems likely, with how many other Apple-adjacent references
           | are in the series (including Copland among another things).
           | 
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copland_(operating_system)
        
             | Kim_Bruning wrote:
             | Here's a list of all the references that people found at
             | the time (ish)
             | 
             | https://www.cjas.org/~leng/apple-lain.htm
        
       | CodeArtisan wrote:
       | fan websites: https://neocities.org/browse?sort_by=views&tag=lain
        
       | BruceEel wrote:
       | After all these years, I can still close my eyes and hear the
       | static buzz of the power lines... Almost time to get a new navi.
        
         | cbanek wrote:
         | That buzz just makes me want to curl up into a bear suit.
        
       | intergalplan wrote:
       | I think about the dad on the computer every time my kids see me
       | while I'm using one.
        
         | creamynebula wrote:
         | Scary!
        
       | dane-pgp wrote:
       | "Fulfil the prophecy!"
        
       | corysama wrote:
       | Lain does seem quaint when viewed today. But, it was thrilling at
       | the time. A frequent theme was hearing background conversations
       | of random users traveling through the wires. The idea of a couple
       | having a fight and breaking up over "The Internet" was still
       | weird. When the series was made, people were just starting to
       | mainstream the practice of having serious personal interaction
       | online and no one knew where it would lead.
       | 
       | Previously you had in-person conversations, letters and phone
       | calls. But, then the whole world quickly ramped up dealing with
       | love, hate, sex and all the depths of humanity through the
       | network. It was a exciting and worrying transition. For me, Lain
       | was there to reflect on a lot of that angst.
        
         | m4rtink wrote:
         | I would recommend watching also Dennou Coil - it seems to me
         | like similarly prescient description of how advanced Augmented
         | Reality might look like - where you are in a physical world but
         | can't be sure anymore that what you see is physically here or
         | was added (or altered!) by the undistinguishable AR overlay.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | lbeltrame wrote:
       | Aside Chiaki Konaka from Lain, I would recommend some of the
       | works of Sadayuki Murai (who, coincidentally, co-worked with
       | Konaka in Bubblegum Crisis 2040):
       | 
       | - Moryo no Hako (not sure what's the English name, but it's a
       | nice horror/detective story from a novel)
       | 
       | - Millennium Actress (an IMO nice way to show the evolution of
       | the Japanese cinema)
       | 
       | - Perfect Blue (mostly Satoshi Kon's work, but Murai worked in
       | the screenplay)
       | 
       | There's also Boogiepop Phantom, but you lose a bit of the plot if
       | you haven't read the original novels.
        
         | bozzcl wrote:
         | To add a bit more, Perfect Blue is credited as being a huge
         | inspiration for Black Swan.
        
       | meowface wrote:
       | There's a certain brooding, existential atmosphere and mystique
       | to anime like Serial Experiments Lain, Neon Genesis Evangelion,
       | and Steins;Gate that really make them stand out and stick with
       | you.
       | 
       | Even if the show turned out to not be prescient at all, it would
       | still be one of the top classics. Combined with the fact that it
       | was, it's really something special.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | ergot_vacation wrote:
         | The weird thing is that Evangelion and Lain (and other stuff
         | like them) came out in the early 2000s, and really fit that
         | era. Steins;Gate came out in 2011, but feels like an early
         | 2000s anime, in both visual style, writing, mood etc. I suppose
         | that's somewhat fitting given the content of the show though.
        
           | LiquidSky wrote:
           | >The weird thing is that Evangelion and Lain (and other stuff
           | like them) came out in the early 2000s,
           | 
           | Evangelion came out in 1995, Lain came out in 1998.
        
           | throwaway17_17 wrote:
           | Just a nitpick, but Neon Genesis Evangelion came out in 1995
           | and Lain in 1998. They do tend to be representative of their
           | period, i.e. 90's tv anime productions. The early 2000's
           | where characterized primarily by the Big 3 Shonen Jump titles
           | (Bleach, Naruto, and One Piece).
        
             | astrange wrote:
             | > The early 2000's where characterized primarily by the Big
             | 3 Shonen Jump titles (Bleach, Naruto, and One Piece).
             | 
             | This category only exists in the minds of Westerners who
             | were pirating shonen manga at the time. It's not the most
             | popular anime in Japan at any point.
             | 
             | It's also funny Bleach made this list since it was frankly
             | terribly written and not as popular as the other two. The
             | author had no control over his story and would try to get
             | out of plot holes by introducing another 20 characters
             | every so often (he liked designing them but not writing
             | them). And for some reason his main strength was fashion
             | but then he moved the plot to a world where everyone wears
             | the same plain black and white robes.
        
               | anthk wrote:
               | >Westerners
               | 
               | Avoid placing Americans as "westerners", because we the
               | Europeans already finished Dragon Ball by 1994 for sure.
        
               | astrange wrote:
               | But what were you pirating in 2003?
        
               | anthk wrote:
               | One Piece maybe, but I had the manga readily available in
               | Spain as early as 1997-8. Translated, not pirated.
        
               | perardi wrote:
               | Hey, lets introduce a group, the Quincy, that spends
               | quite a lot of the first part of the series proclaiming
               | they proudly use bows and not swords.
               | 
               | And then let's finish the series by having their king,
               | and all his powerful vassals, very blatantly fight only
               | using swords.
               | 
               | Very consistent.
        
               | Jtsummers wrote:
               | First season: We can't fly normally, we need a special
               | device in order to fly. Every season after that: Somehow
               | we're all flying and floating in the air but we won't
               | discuss how.
               | 
               | I found it became much more enjoyable when I decided to
               | "finish" it (after ignoring it for a while) by watching
               | every 5th episode. It was very rare that I missed any
               | story elements because half of each episode was a recap
               | of the recap of the recap from several episodes prior.
               | Stupid completionist tendencies.
        
               | PixelOfDeath wrote:
               | The kind of anime that needs a compressed version, where
               | all the relevant parts of 189* episodes are cut down
               | without all the fillers to 10 minutes max...
        
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       (page generated 2021-04-19 23:01 UTC)