[HN Gopher] Start a Business from Plastic Waste
___________________________________________________________________
Start a Business from Plastic Waste
Author : manx
Score : 131 points
Date : 2021-04-19 10:10 UTC (12 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (preciousplastic.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (preciousplastic.com)
| scottyvg wrote:
| It's 2021 and your site isn't serving https...
| gadders wrote:
| This company was recently featured on a BBC Podcast called
| "People Fixing the World":
| https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p09ddhz6
|
| "Machines to shred, melt and mould waste plastic are popping up
| in workshops around the world - from the UK to Malaysia, Kenya to
| Mexico.
|
| The project is being led by an organisation called Precious
| Plastic. They put designs for the devices online for anyone to
| download and build themselves.
|
| More than 400 teams around the world are now taking on the
| challenge of plastic waste using these machines, making
| everything from sunglasses to plastic bricks in the process."
| motohagiography wrote:
| Two interesting things, and a third. The first is that the whole
| business is upcycling disposable products/material into more long
| term durable ones. The second is the success of the collection
| depends entirely on the demand for the upcycled products up the
| supply chain. (extrusion, sheetpress, injection moulding, and the
| stuff you make out of them) So inventing very long term useful
| things made from recycled plastic (bricks, roads, large boats)
| would improve demand for recycling.
|
| The third is the collection point business is a straight bounty
| program, which seems like the most basic business model in
| nature. There was a guy who trained crows to trade cigarette buts
| for peanuts in a machine, and it seems like you could do the same
| with plastics litter collection. Maybe we could build machines
| that other wild animals could figure out that accepted litter and
| waste and returned food.
| lostlogin wrote:
| Wouldn't upcycling plastic into more durable plastic actually
| exacerbate the problems with plastic?
| singleuseuser wrote:
| Anyone interested in starting up some of these recycling
| facilities as a community project? I'm in Austin and could
| provide all of the funding but would love some volunteers to
| help. It would be a non-profit. plasticproject@fastmail.com
| NiceWayToDoIT wrote:
| What type of plastic types can be recycled this way? From what I
| read, only a small percent of all plastic product can be
| recycled.
|
| For instance, bags that are on their logo flag, are not
| recyclable, in UK when you sorting out recyclable materials they
| tell you that bags are not suitable for recycling. And in some
| way they tear quickly and contribute hugely to micro-plastic
| pollution that goes into food chain.
| herbst wrote:
| "not recycleable" sometimes only means its not economically
| feasable to recycle, which for example is true for diapers too
| (which make up about 30% of our houshold trash). There is some
| weird trash town in agypt that over 90% recycling rate
| especially with plastics (afaik).
| fudged71 wrote:
| Based on today's technology and knowledge, I think every
| community center should have plastic recycling and reuse,
| workshop tool library, community garden, and compost.
|
| We can do things super-local now, use it as a teaching
| opportunity, and use volunteer effort within walking distance to
| make a change.
|
| Are there any public communities in the world that are actually
| doing this on a super local basis? Making, Growing, Recycling.
| [deleted]
| xyst wrote:
| If billions of dollars spent on various recycling programs fail,
| I can't see these homemade machines solving this problem either.
| It's clear this is not immune to the sorting problem which is the
| root cause of why plastic recycling is unprofitable.
|
| I can see this as an educational program for children and adults
| that ignorantly throw anything plastic into the recycling bin
| thinking it would be recycled. But in reality, it's likely going
| into the local landfill (or overseas).
|
| The only way to solve this plastic problem is to ban all single
| use applications (ie, cups, straws, takeaway containers, grocery
| bags, ...).
| _rpd wrote:
| > It's clear this is not immune to the sorting problem which is
| the root cause of why plastic recycling is unprofitable
|
| Yeah, they depict collectors bicycling around town with a
| trailer and then washing and delabeling the collected plastic
| in a domestic kitchen sink. They would have to charge thousands
| per ton for the clean stock.
| CannisterFlux wrote:
| The latest trick for plastic items is for companies to say they
| are reusable. So instead of a box of plastic straws, it is now
| a box with "reusable plastic straws" written on it. Same exact
| product, but now marketed to get around any single-use bans.
| throwaway0a5e wrote:
| There's a lot of things that can be economically viable at the
| personal/household scale that can't work at the commercial
| scale because of the regulatory requirements of a modern first
| world workplace.
|
| Most of the time when you see a kit to DIY something this is
| the niche in which it lives.
|
| Not saying the economics work out for this particular thing but
| just because it's not commercially viable doesn't mean it's not
| economically viable. You don't see scrapyards hiring people to
| drive around picking up scrap metal yet people do it for a net
| profit, same concept.
| throwaway316943 wrote:
| That's true, this might actually work if it's done at the
| household or neighborhood level. The big problems with
| recycling plastic are manual sorting and cleaning the gross
| stuff people leave in it. If you're recycling your own waste
| you can tackle those problems easily. If it's your
| neighbour's water then you can ask them to be responsible or
| lose access to your service and good will.
| throwaway316943 wrote:
| The sorting problem is mostly due to people feeling like they
| can get away with not washing their recyclables and throwing
| anything into the recycling bin. If you have to deliver those
| recyclables to a local business in person and they can tell you
| to your face that you didn't do it right and you have to take
| your bin over to a washing station and redo it before you can
| leave it there you can be sure it won't happen again.
| _rpd wrote:
| > If you have to deliver those recyclables to a local
| business in person
|
| But you don't have to. You can just throw it in the trash or
| blue lid recycling bin, emptied every Monday.
|
| What motivates someone to spend hours scrubbing and
| personally delivering clean plastic?
| throwaway0a5e wrote:
| >What motivates someone to spend hours scrubbing and
| personally delivering clean plastic?
|
| Image.
|
| If you can convince a bunch of dumb yuppies that they will
| sound like the hippest hipster in the break room when they
| chat with all their coworkers about what they're up to they
| will shovel inordinate amounts of money in your direction.
| And after a good run at that either you sell out and move
| down market or someone else comes along and develops a 90%
| as good solution that's accessible to a much broader cross
| section of the population.
|
| Pulling that off is the big question though. Premium
| consumers are more fickle than normal consumers.
| lotsofpulp wrote:
| > What motivates someone to spend hours scrubbing and
| personally delivering clean plastic?
|
| Hence why taxes on fossil fuels should be so high that a
| plastic bottle costs $10 and plastic toys cost $100, so the
| alternatives are worth it and the plastic is not made in
| the first place.
| dahfizz wrote:
| Yeah, screw poor people. They don't deserve toys anyway.
| lotsofpulp wrote:
| Poor people and avoiding environmental calamities are
| separate problems with separate solutions.
| dahfizz wrote:
| If your solution for environmental issues is to make
| everything dramatically more expensive, they are no
| longer independent problems.
|
| What would the solution here be? Raise prices on
| everything containing plastic, but then give the bottom
| x% of the population money to offset the increased cost?
| That is a net effect of zero, with lots of inefficiency
| in the middle.
|
| Increasing prices only works as a way of changing
| behavior if people feel the effects of the increased
| prices. You cannot handwave away "poor people will get a
| separate solution" when your entire proposal is to make
| people lose money.
| lotsofpulp wrote:
| One problem is the environmental effects of using a
| certain product, which in this situation are fossil
| fuels. The only solution to the problems caused by fossil
| fuels, from emissions to microplastics, is to decrease
| the use of fossil fuels period. In order to decrease the
| use of something, you can increase the price.
|
| Another problem is the income/wealth/opportunity gap
| between people around the world. This might be solved by
| transferring income/wealth/opportunity from those that
| have it to those that don't. It does not need to be
| linked directly to taxes on fossil fuels, like most other
| government expenditures are not linked to specific taxes.
|
| This is not a net zero effect with lots of inefficiency.
| It's actually the most efficient way I can think of,
| certainly more than hoping people sort and clean their
| recycling properly, ignoring the fact that recycling
| doesn't even really work.
|
| The whole point is to make people feel the effects of
| increased prices. It will mean fewer plastic toys, and
| toys in general since they won't be so cheap, less
| flying, smaller homes and lots since transportation for
| longer distances is more expensive.
|
| But that is the goal, to reduce the use of fossil fuels.
| Which all of our modern quality of life revolves around.
| And why, politically, there will not be a real solution
| to damage caused by fossil fuels in any relevant
| timeframe.
| throwaway316943 wrote:
| Your solution sounds equivalent to creating a permanent
| economic depression. Good thing that anyone who
| implements this will be outcompeted by those who don't.
| lotsofpulp wrote:
| I'm well aware it would create an economic depression,
| hence my acknowledging that politically, a real solution
| is not possible to enact.
|
| Our economy and expectations of life are based on
| consuming as much as we can, and so we shall. The optimal
| move for each individual is to enjoy life as much as they
| can, regardless of the effects of their consumption.
|
| Whether or not it's a good thing (for descendants)
| depends on how true predictions like these are:
|
| https://xkcd.com/1732/
| throwaway316943 wrote:
| Do hospitals get a special exception or do we go back to
| risking infection due to insufficient sterilization?
| lotsofpulp wrote:
| Society is free to allocate more plastic to
| sterilization, it'll just have to come from somewhere in
| society's "fossil fuel" budget.
|
| The point is the amount of fossil fuel consumption is
| causing environmental problems, just not in current
| society's decision makers' lifetimes. The only solution
| is to bring down the amount of fossil fuels consumed.
| _rpd wrote:
| Fossil fuels aren't the only possible feedstock for
| plastics, just the current cheapest option. If you make
| fossil fuels more expensive, then people will use ...
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bioplastic
| lotsofpulp wrote:
| Interesting! I guess there would also have to be a
| disincentive to use plastics period.
| Moto7451 wrote:
| Not everyone has that available to them. In my county there
| is no municipal trash services. It's all private and the
| commercial providers make vague references to single stream
| recycling. I'm skeptical they're doing a good job of
| extracting recyclables from waste.
| linuxftw wrote:
| They stuff that garbage into empty container ships where
| it's 'recycled' in impoverished nations in Asia.
| throwaway316943 wrote:
| Trillion dollar question.
| harimau777 wrote:
| With the current state of plastic packaging, I don't think
| most people have the time to do that.
|
| The only way that I could see that being viable is if it was
| mandated that the plastic class be embossed into the product
| with a minimum font size, labels be easily removable, and the
| package be shaped in such a way that it be easily cleanable.
| datavirtue wrote:
| Plastic needs classified as toxic and treated as such. There
| are beaches now covered in plastic chips instead of sand (the
| sand is underneath). The real scary part is waking up one day
| and realizing that we are infested with microplastics to a
| dangerous and irreversible saturation point from the natural
| breakdown. Man made fibers, water bottles, children's
| toys...all will break down to microscopic levels. We can
| probably filter it out effectively for drinking but the whole
| deal is just another log on the fire that humanity has built
| under themselves.
| slver wrote:
| You know, I actually prefer plastic sand.
| Daniel_sk wrote:
| A lot of these plastic-recycling products don't cope with the big
| issue of pollution with micro plastic particles. I read about
| making pavement from plastic waste. Sure you can do that, but the
| plastic will be slowly worn down and the micro particles will
| pollute everything. That's the same problem with low quality
| plastics being recycled into household items. I see a health risk
| here. I will prefer something from wood, glass or metal - or from
| high quality (and bio-degradable?) plastics.
| harimau777 wrote:
| I am definitely not an expert, but I wonder if it would be
| viable to recycle plastic into bricks for construction?
|
| It seems like wear would be less of an issue and the bulk
| properties of the resulting plastic would be emphasized.
| NortySpock wrote:
| One application I did see Precious Plastic recommending was
| producing long extruded plastic beams like 4x4 lumber. No
| idea how strong the beam was though.
| tkinom wrote:
| I have seen hiking path way near water made from recycle
| plastic maybe 10+ years ago. Don't remember where now. Love
| to go back and check the durability of them after all these
| years. Curious about the cost also.
| nerdponx wrote:
| I used to live in an area where several dilapidated
| wooden paths were replaced with this tuff. I believe the
| main benefit was that they were supposed to never rot or
| warp, meaning that their lifetime mainentance cost was
| significantly lower than wood. I think for the most part
| they've all held up over 10+ years, but I have no idea if
| they've been leeching microplastics into the local
| wetlands.
| KozmoNau7 wrote:
| It's a very bad idea to use recycled plastic for anything that
| will face abrasion, harsh temperatures or harsh chemicals, or a
| combination. Or any plastic really, microplastics don't care
| about which generation recycling your plastic has been through.
|
| Obviously the most important thing to do is to reduce how much
| plastic is produced in the first place. Plastic recycling
| doesn't solve the microplastic issue, it arguably makes it
| worse, so any scrap plastic should be responsibly burned for
| energy and that energy should go towards production using
| materials that aren't plastic.
|
| Use plastic only for products where the use of plastic is
| necessary for some critical functionality, and cannot be
| replaced with sustainable, biodegradable, properly recyclable
| materials. And only for products that are meant to last a long
| time, all single use and disposable plastic (such as packaging)
| needs to disappear ASAP.
| bottled_poe wrote:
| Seems like a strange jump from "recycling is bad" to "we
| should burn plastic for energy".
| KozmoNau7 wrote:
| Then you misunderstand. Recycling is good wherever and
| whenever reducing or reusing is not possible.
|
| Especially aluminum recycling (and most other metal
| recycling) is a win-win, both when looking at energy
| expenditure and environmental impact from mining.
|
| _Plastic_ recycling doesn 't work currently. There are too
| many mutually incompatible types, and sorting is painfully
| manual and slow, it's exceedingly hard to automate and make
| efficient. A lot of plastic types cannot be reformed or
| remolded at all, so the only use for them is to be ground
| up and used as filler material.
|
| All of this plastic processing just further exacerbates the
| microplastic problem. The further you grind down and reuse
| plastic, the worse the end product becomes and the more it
| sheds microplastic when used or exposed to abrasion, UV
| light and other forms of wear and tear.
|
| So I propose that we cut the head off the beast, strongly
| curtail plastic production and try to responsibly get rid
| of the microplastic-generating plastic we already have.
| Incineration -when done correctly- is a responsible way of
| disposal that also generates power. We already burn dioxins
| and many other harmful compounds to dispose of them safely
| and with minimal environmental impact, if done correctly.
| sergeykish wrote:
| 88% microplastics comes from car tyres [1]. Check out other
| categories, it's about abrasion, like shoe soles, plastic
| textiles.
|
| The real issue -- plastic is cheap, manufacturing is expensive.
| As result marketplace is full of fashion items [2].
|
| [1] https://www.ecofario.eco/en/microplastics
|
| [2] https://bazar.preciousplastic.com/products/
| dinamic wrote:
| Despite loving such projects, sometimes I have a feeling that
| concentration on recycling shifts attention too much from the
| real causes of waste pollution, such as overproduction,
| overconsumption and lack of investment in biodegradable
| materials.
| ravenstine wrote:
| Or even from using truly+ recyclable materials like aluminum.
| If we weren't so obsessed with seeing the liquid inside of
| containers, many things could be converted to use aluminum.
|
| _[Obviously, aluminum waste isn 't 100% recyclable, but it's
| about as close as you can get besides maybe glass._
| pvorb wrote:
| So why not use glass directly?
|
| I try to buy products in glass bottles that are produced as
| close to home as possible. Most, but unfortunately not all of
| those glass bottles are refilled, but at least they are
| recycled by melting and producing new glass.
|
| I've read some reports that claim that washing is also not
| ecological, as there are too few facilities in Germany that
| do this and transportation costs are high. So it's a trade
| off.
| dwohnitmok wrote:
| RE your disclaimer what about aluminum isn't recyclable?
| goda90 wrote:
| Maybe the plastic liner that most aluminum cans have?
| ravenstine wrote:
| Yeah, the plastic liner and the paint add impurities that
| have to be removed, and of course those components are
| not recyclable, scant they may be. This isn't to say that
| the aluminum element itself isn't recyclable, but
| inevitably there's _some_ loss because of impurities, so
| I added the disclaimer to save people time from replying
| with " _Ackshually_... "
| dwohnitmok wrote:
| Out of curiosity do you have any idea of how much loss
| that adds up to (say by mass)?
| ravenstine wrote:
| Off the top of my head, I don't truly know, but I would
| bet it's a very small fraction. Let's find out...
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aluminium#Recycling
|
| > Recycling involves melting the scrap, a process that
| requires only 5% of the energy used to produce aluminium
| from ore, though a significant part (up to 15% of the
| input material) is lost as dross (ash-like oxide).[134]
| An aluminium stack melter produces significantly less
| dross, with values reported below 1%.
|
| That amount seems to fit with my amateur experience of
| melting aluminum cans. Dross pretty much floats up to the
| top of the molten aluminum, and you basically just scrape
| it off. Even bar stock aluminum from Home Depot would
| produce a small amount of it.
|
| According to this page, aluminum is separated from dross
| in a separate process:
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aluminium_recycling#Seconda
| ry_...
|
| So yeah, the loss is non-zero, but the the recyclability
| of aluminum might as well be considered infinite,
| especially in contrast to plastics.
| geuis wrote:
| That doesn't really do much to prevent recycling though.
| When the material is melted, anything like paint or
| plastic liners are burned off. The main issue that has to
| be handled are the vapors that are released. (They can be
| toxic and have to be handled.)
| ravenstine wrote:
| Much of it is burned off, but there are constituents that
| remain and need to be removed. This is called "dross".
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dross
|
| You can actually witness the formation of dross yourself
| if you make your own aluminum foundry (which is
| ridiculously easy if you have hair dryer, a coffee can,
| an empty propane canister, and some charcoal). My
| understanding is that aluminum oxidization contributes
| somewhat to this, but it's also caused by what's left
| over after the plastic and paint have burned.
|
| Granted, I am in no way saying that recycling aluminum
| isn't 100% worth it. I was merely trying to address the
| issue before someone might have brought it up. (I've
| noticed some people despise the use of absolutes and
| always need to point out that nothing is absolute)
|
| EDIT: For anyone interested in "recycling" their own
| aluminum, this is almost exactly what I did about 10
| years ago, and it was a lot of fun. This guy's casting
| looks dreadful, though.
|
| https://www.instructables.com/Quick-cheap-and-dirty-
| aluminum...
|
| There are other tutorials that describe using a soup can
| as a crucible, which might work for a short time but I
| think that's pretty dangerous.
| marcosdumay wrote:
| You lose some it every time you recycle. Of course in
| theory you can treat all the aluminum waste and get every
| gram of metal back, but it's not viable in practice.
| dimitrios1 wrote:
| You are going to have to define what "over" means for each of
| those categories. Contrary to popular belief, I believe people
| generally consume what they need. It's much of the world coming
| "online", due to the global prosperity capitalism has enabled,
| that has resulted in such mass production of things we would do
| well to get rid of such as single use disposable plastics (that
| aren't for medical purposes, of course).
| dinamic wrote:
| Fast fashion is a vivid example of overconsumption, and
| planned obsolescence would be a good example of
| overproduction.
|
| Regarding person's "needs" - I believe they are endless up to
| the point where person can afford them.
| titzer wrote:
| If "need" includes paying $NN/mo to rent a storage container
| to put your extra junk, then sure, people are consuming what
| they need.
| dimitrios1 wrote:
| Most was the key qualifier in my statement.
|
| There is no doubt that about 5% of the population have some
| sort of compulsive hoarding habit. But it wouldn't matter
| because this is irrelevant to the issue of single use
| plastics, the thing that generates the most waste in oceans
| and waterways. Nice attempt at a "gotcha" though. Let's try
| a good faith dialogue next time.
| titzer wrote:
| It's not only that. Do we "need" to consume sodas and
| bottled water? Americans throw away 35 billion plastic
| bottles every year.
|
| That's just the US. Literally every country I've visited,
| including third world countries, are consuming ungodly
| amounts of one-time use plastics. The reason? Plastics
| make the job of global megacorporations, whose only goal
| is to make more money, much easier, since they can
| package their junk food and drinks and ship them the
| world over.
|
| It's not a "gotcha." I just very strongly disagree, given
| what I've seen everywhere I've traveled.
| aliswe wrote:
| There is a process called pyrolysis which basically distills any
| kind of plastic into oil / diesel fuel.
|
| A number of things can be added to the process, such as pressure,
| vaccuum, and catalysators, to make it more efficient. It even
| works on old tyres! The rest is basically sludge or soot which
| allegedly also can be utilized in some way. It also emits
| "pyrolytic gases" (iirc) which I guess are bad? Toxic? Bad for
| the environment? Idk...
|
| Heres one out of tonnes of YT videos:
|
| https://youtu.be/TFuTCpCVSbM
| toomuchtodo wrote:
| This is an underrated solution. As everyone mentions in this
| thread, plastic reuse furthers the problem due to microplastic
| breakdown. Ideally, you're gasifying with plasma [1] [2] [3],
| with the slag going into road aggregate or other construction
| processes as feedstock. This doesn't work (yet) at
| hobbyist/small scale, but is entirely possible at municipal
| waste stream scale. Plastics (anything really, except metals,
| soil, and rock) go in, clean burning syngas and slag come out.
| Could even do carbon capture off the syngas to sequester the
| CO2 if you colocate somewhere where you can mineralize below
| ground, and use renewables to provide whatever power you can't
| recover from generation off the syngas.
|
| This assumes you also outlaw single use plastics/disposable
| plastics to solve for the other side of the equation.
|
| [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plasma_gasification
|
| [2]
| https://digitalcommons.unl.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1...
| (Treatment of Plastic Wastes Using Plasma Gasification
| Technology)
|
| [3] https://netl.doe.gov/research/Coal/energy-
| systems/gasificati...
| nerdponx wrote:
| I've read about plasma gasification for years, including some
| nebulous plan for New York City to buy one. But from the
| Wikipedia page (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plasma_gasifica
| tion_commercial...) it looks like there are a total of 5
| sites operating anywhere in the world, which is quite a small
| number. The Wikipedia page also lists a bunch of failed
| projects which seem to mostly have been held up by red tape
| and locals being afraid that it's unsafe or toxic.
|
| Moreover, the Wikipedia page lists these downsides:
|
| * Little or even negative net energy production.
|
| * Frequent maintenance and limited plant availability.
|
| The former I find weird, because landfills don't generate
| energy either. But the latter could be a problem.
|
| The UNL paper you linked also mentions that such plasma
| gasification isn't necessarily more profitable than
| traditional recycling.
|
| This is such a weird angle to me. Safe and environmentally-
| friendly waste disposal is a public good, specifically one
| for which the benefits are dispersed across many individuals
| while the costs are concentrated on whoever has to build and
| run the facility. So why should we rely on for-profit market
| forces to produce it in efficient (welfare-maximizing)
| quantities?
|
| It's strange what in the USA does and does not get seen from
| this angle. Fire protection, police, drinking water treatment
| (I think?), and schools are owned and operated directly by
| towns/cities. But medical facilities & ambulance companies,
| electricity, sewage/wastewater treatment, and heating fuel
| are provided by private companies that residents either pay
| directly or through the town/city government. Not sure about
| landfills. Garbage collection and road construction are
| (usually, I think?) contracted out.
|
| I'm sure there are, or were, economic reasons why each of
| these scenarios evolved the way it did. But inertia is very
| much a thing, and just because something was sensible in the
| past doesn't mean it remains sensible today.
| ladybro wrote:
| A friend has been making clothes from 100% certified ocean
| plastic: https://seathreads.co/
|
| As a business owner, I don't envy his margins, but I certainly
| hope to see more companies doing similar in the future. We need
| to make re-use cool and something to brag about.
| nerdponx wrote:
| I know microplastics are bad and stuff but I also have to
| recommend Got Bag (https://got-bag.com/), which is supposedly
| made out of recycled ocean plastic. I'm not sure if it is or
| isn't, but they make a great bag. I've had one for a few months
| now and it's held up well to being knocked around, no frayed
| material or even any significant scuffs, and it's at least
| water resistant (if not waterproof) in the rain.
| hypertele-Xii wrote:
| Plastic is bad because it degrades into microplastic which is
| mechanically toxic to life (gets stuck in yer body). Why would
| you want to _wear_ something toxic? That 's like taking
| asbestos out of the walls and rubbing it on your body. Also,
| (machine) washing plastic clothes further degrades them into
| microplastics. Bad idea all around.
| gtk40 wrote:
| Hmm I'm a runner and pretty much everything I wear for
| running is plastic. The common advice I've gotten is to avoid
| cotton and it's worked well for me. Anywhere I can read more
| about this?
| millzlane wrote:
| Not OP, But I've read about it recently. While, I'm not yet
| avoiding these products, it's cause for concern.
|
| https://appalachiangearcompany.com/blogs/appgear-
| insider/you...
| snypher wrote:
| I'd like to know who is advising you against cotton, and
| why? Unless you are in a strange climate it's one of the
| best materials for clothing.
| Ryoung27 wrote:
| Are you saying running clothing, or just clothing in
| general? Cotton for running chafes a solid amount, and
| doesn't wick moisture well.
| pastage wrote:
| Silk and wool breaths and keeps fresh much longer without
| having to wash them all the time. Wool is the best IMHO.
| gtk40 wrote:
| I've tried running in cotton and it is not a pleasant
| experience, especially in high humidity or rainy
| conditions (very common where I live).
| codpiece wrote:
| "Cotton kills" is a common refrain in rowing because when
| its wet in cold environments, it can lead to hypothermia.
| Additionally, cotton is very heavy in water. Basic water
| safety used to teach that you should strip down, even use
| your jeans as a flotation device.
| switchbak wrote:
| Cotton kills, definitely avoid that.
|
| Modern merino wool is a super material, I've moved away
| from synthetic jerseys entirely. Substantially less stinky,
| works well in all temps, and not created from plastics.
|
| Eventually we'll understand how to synthesize something as
| good or better than wool, but for now merino is where it's
| at.
| driverdan wrote:
| Merino wool has downsides too. It stains more easily, is
| more expensive, is less durable, and gets eaten by bugs.
| IMO it's less comfortable too.
| Ancalagon wrote:
| Realistically, with the health issues coming up, the
| microplastics leaching into everything, and the energy-intensive
| process of reusing plastic, I think we should give up on
| recycling plastic completely. Bury it back in the oil holes we
| got it from (this is semi-sarcastic, I know burying it in such a
| way is not entirely feasible) in the first place below the
| bedrock and end the age of plastic.
| Lio wrote:
| Plastic breaks down is horrible ways and gets everywhere. It's
| hard to clean well enough to be recycled. Even when recycled it's
| still constantly breaking down into micro-particles and getting
| everywhere.
|
| If we can't persuade retailers to use something else I kind of
| think that the best and cleanest use for single use plastic might
| be to just incinerate it with a very good scrubber system on the
| exhaust from the incinerator.
|
| Get the energy back and do something useful with it. e.g. use it
| as base load for renewable energy sources like wind and solar.
|
| Anything but let it get buried or broken down and into water
| courses.
| admiral33 wrote:
| Consumers don't have much choice besides a recycling bin and a
| trash bin. Landfills are actually a decent option for plastics
| because the plastic stays in tact (no shredding - creating more
| microplastics) and in one place - stopping it from escaping
| into the local ecosystem. Most will use the recycling bin for
| plastics because they see that as the best option while not
| knowing the implications of recycling plastic in the United
| States.
|
| Norway has a good system where plastic bottles are made with
| more plastic to make them thicker/durable, and when the bottles
| are recycled they are cleaned and reused [0].
|
| [0]: https://www.sciencealert.com/norway-s-recycling-scheme-is-
| so...
| boatsie wrote:
| The recent articles about delivery drivers peeing in those
| bottles gives me pause.
| intergalplan wrote:
| Where I live (a US city) we're strongly encouraged to recycle
| plastic, by a policy that limits trash bags and makes putting
| out extra fairly expensive, but allows unlimited recycling,
| including plastic.
|
| The recycling program also uses plastic open-top bins as the
| standard collection container. You can imagine what this
| "green" policy causes on windy days. That's right: litter-
| tornadoes. Been that way for years, all I can figure is
| whoever's got the contract has important political
| connections. It's very, very dumb.
| admiral33 wrote:
| Sorry to hear that, policies like that are often in good
| faith but lack important details like you described. It
| reminds me of when I went to an earth day fair and one of
| the tents was selling athleisure made from recycled
| bottles. It had a sizeable crowd - I was thinking about how
| many of those who bought something went home feeling like
| they had done the right thing and had some quality fitness
| apparel to show for it - only to throw them in a washing
| machine without a microplastic filter on it.
| lostlogin wrote:
| We had this, then moved to (plastic) wheelie bins that are
| 120 or 240 litres, but emptied every fortnight.
| maxerickson wrote:
| That article doesn't say the bottles are cleaned and reused,
| it says they have a bottle deposit system and process the
| recycled material to a high standard.
| [deleted]
| admiral33 wrote:
| "What's more, 92 percent of the bottles recycled yield such
| high quality material, it can be used again in drink
| bottles. In some cases, the system has already reused the
| same material more than 50 times."
|
| Also: "Its success is unarguable - 97% of all plastic
| drinks bottles in Norway are recycled, 92% to such a high
| standard that they are turned back into drinks bottles.
| Maldum says some of the material has been recycled more
| than 50 times already. Less than 1% of plastic bottles end
| up in the environment." [0]
|
| Just articles I found quickly, my friend who split his time
| between the US and Norway before the pandemic was telling
| me about it.
|
| [0]:
| https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/jul/12/can-
| norw...
| maxerickson wrote:
| What do you think "material...used again" and "turned
| back into" mean there?
| Syonyk wrote:
| > _Get the energy back and do something useful with it._
|
| I fully agree about burning the stuff. You accomplish several
| important things that way:
|
| - Destroying it, so it's not going to get washed up on random
| beaches after claiming to be "recycled" by shoving it in a
| shipping container and sending it to some country who doesn't
| have the systems in place to say "No."
|
| - Fighting against the marketing of plastics as "clean" and
| "recyclable." If the stuff is so awful you can't come up with
| anything better to do than burn it, maybe it's not as nice as
| it's claimed to be.
|
| - Offset some coal use.
|
| Out in Boise (and a few other places), there's a pilot program
| to use the "weird plastics" (not #1/#2, which are now collected
| in a combined system most places, so I wonder if they're
| actually getting recycled at all) and burn them in a cement
| kiln. It's the Hefty Energy Bag program, and while one might
| rightly question a plastic bag company promoting plastics for
| energy, they've done what looks to be a pretty solid lifecycle
| analysis on the various alternatives, and "just burning the
| stuff instead of coal" works out, by far, the best.
|
| https://www.hefty.com/sites/default/files/2021-01/Hefty-Ener...
| specialist wrote:
| > _persuade retailers to use something else_
|
| I've been daydreaming about alternatives.
|
| Wrapping bars of deodorant in rice paper. Making it like a bar
| of soap that you can hold.
|
| I found a (mostly) bamboo toothbrush. It's ok.
|
| The bamboo dental floss is pretty terrific.
|
| Hoping to never buy fleece or spandex again, I'm still looking
| for hemp (or whatever) "athleisure" clothing. Like pullovers.
| (My lame attempts to learn to my make own clothing didn't get
| very far.)
| erikcw wrote:
| I really like Smart Wool[0]. Really durable product and hi
| performing -- seems to be much more environmentally friendly
| than synthetic textiles.
|
| [0] https://www.smartwool.com/
| awestroke wrote:
| They sell clothes made of wool and plastic mix. Nylon,
| elastane, polyester.
| intergalplan wrote:
| Pretty much anything wool that's form-fitting or
| otherwise meant for athletics or other activity is gonna
| have some plastic in it, for the stretchiness. Socks,
| undershirts, athletic shirts, all that kind of thing.
| adamsiem wrote:
| Deodorant in Cardboard https://www.heyhumans.com/
| specialist wrote:
| Exactly! Just like a push up pop.
| https://i.redd.it/lnwb4plu2kuy.jpg
|
| They have some other interesting products too. Thank!
| dr_orpheus wrote:
| I see a lot of replacements for more stiff plastics that can
| be done another way such as the "push pop" deodorants
| mentioned in other comments.
|
| I'm curious what alternatives there are for squeeze bottle
| items (ketchup, shampoo, etc.) I know that there are
| alternatives (obviously ketchup comes in glass bottles) but
| how do you replicate the squeeze bottle with something other
| than plastic. Right now I have an image in my mind of a juice
| box full of shampoo, but I haven't actually seen any
| replacements like this around.
| remir wrote:
| I think we should also focus on reusable containers ideally
| made of glass or aluminium. You bring your containers to
| the grocery store and refill it with whatever you need.
| specialist wrote:
| Me too.
|
| I anticipate many products will return to powder form.
|
| eg I intend to try powder shampoos next time I have to
| restock.
| donkarma wrote:
| Crazy how we use one of the most durable materials on Earth for
| disposables
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