[HN Gopher] Buy it for life: Durable, Quality, Practical
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       Buy it for life: Durable, Quality, Practical
        
       Author : emre
       Score  : 54 points
       Date   : 2021-04-17 20:37 UTC (2 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.buyforlife.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.buyforlife.com)
        
       | ekianjo wrote:
       | > Thinkpad X200
       | 
       | I clicked on Go to Shop, it leads to Amazon with a search for
       | "thinkpad T series" and nothing related to the X200. Useless.
       | 
       | https://www.buyforlife.com/products/185/thinkpad-x200
        
       | golemiprague wrote:
       | I can see why someone would like to buy a long lasting tools or
       | pots and pans but for cloths or electronics it is just a waste of
       | money. Fashion changes and electronics advance too rapidly, you
       | don't want to get stuck with something for too long.
        
       | thih9 wrote:
       | Previous discussion:
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25558941
        
         | dang wrote:
         | Also these threads:
         | 
         |  _Show HN: I calculated the monthly cost of ownership for
         | products_ - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26525183 -
         | March 2021 (2 comments)
         | 
         |  _Show HN: Summarizing product reviews into simple bullet-point
         | lists with GPT-3_ -
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26224784 - Feb 2021 (41
         | comments)
         | 
         |  _Review broken products instead of new ones_ -
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25810708 - Jan 2021 (121
         | comments)
         | 
         |  _Show HN: Recurring reviews to track the whole lifecycle of a
         | product_ - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25558891 - Dec
         | 2020 (61 comments)
        
       | fnord77 wrote:
       | no electronics products on that site offer a lifetime warranty.
       | 
       | I'd argue there are almost no "buy it for life" electronics. Same
       | with clothing except maybe outerwear.
        
       | fnord77 wrote:
       | Some cheapo Harbor Freight tools last a lifetime if you only use
       | them a couple times a year. No sense in buying something very
       | heavy duty when it won't see much duty.
       | 
       | I feel like "buy it for life" is just a different kind of
       | (hipster?) snobbery.
        
         | dylan604 wrote:
         | There are tools for weekend warriors, and then there's tools
         | for the "professional" built for daily use.
         | 
         | I often repeat the phrase "buy it nice, or buy it twice if not
         | thrice". I've done the buy it cheap to get 'er done type of
         | thing, and I've also bought the good item because it was going
         | to make a shitty job that much easier.
        
       | chakerb wrote:
       | I genuinely dont understand the reason behind hijacking right-
       | click (long press on phone). I'm using a slow internet, and I'm
       | used to open multiple tabs so I can only wait for one and then go
       | through all of them. So I'm eager to understand if this is done
       | to stop people from copying from the site or there's another
       | reason behind it.
        
         | dylan604 wrote:
         | >So I'm eager to understand if this is done to stop people from
         | copying from the site
         | 
         | Disabling right-click for this purpose is like a lock on the
         | front door to your house. It only keeps the honest person at
         | bay. If I want to see the details of the site, there's no
         | stopping DevTools. Hiding images div backgrounds or under click
         | blocking divs is just a mere inconvenience. If the browser is
         | displaying it, it can be gotten to in DevTools
        
       | zmmmmm wrote:
       | It's been an interesting evolution as I have aged to observe
       | myself going from one end of the spectrum to the other (mainly,
       | as I've accumulated more wealth).
       | 
       | I'm now at the point where I crave quality at just about any cost
       | because it's abundantly clear to me that buying crap is bad
       | value. Many of the few high quality things I bought early on in
       | life are still with me and I love them. But so is a huge amount
       | of the garbage I bought earlier and I hate it.
       | 
       | So where I used to go into shops and look at all the expensive
       | items with scorn and think "what idiots must there be who buy all
       | these things that are twice the price!", now I go in and actively
       | try to find out "but is there an even more expensive one I could
       | get with higher quality?"
        
         | modeless wrote:
         | Honestly I've gone in the other direction. Quality for its own
         | sake is not a virtue; all that matters is whether the item
         | meets the needs you have. An item that breaks and needs
         | replacement is waste, but an item that is overbuilt and never
         | used to its potential is a different kind of waste.
         | 
         | I don't need the best tools in the world for my home toolbox. I
         | use each tool maybe a couple of times a year and even the cheap
         | ones don't break at that level of use. I bought a $250 RC car
         | and a $10 one, and while the $250 one is awesome I've gotten
         | more use out of the $10 one. Sometimes you need quality but
         | sometimes you don't.
        
           | hashkb wrote:
           | That's fair. There is also a category (I'm thinking musical
           | instruments, sports equipment, vim) that grows with you. You
           | might miss out (or worse, quit guitar) because you were too
           | cheap to ever figure out what you were missing.
        
         | jimktrains2 wrote:
         | For me the issue is figuring out what is even quality. It feels
         | like a lot of the time all options are meh or the feature set I
         | want just doesn't exist.
        
         | lupinglade wrote:
         | It's not always the price too, often enough the higher quality
         | item can be cheaper, just less of a fancy package maybe. A lot
         | of companies blow all their budget on advertising and packaging
         | instead of product quality and research. Knowledge is key.
         | Especially be careful in stores like TJ Maxx, Home-sense and
         | such -- lots of lowest quality fancy packaged junk to be had
         | there.
        
           | jack_pp wrote:
           | One example I'm aware of is headphones. A while back everyone
           | thought Beats are the best because they were expensive and
           | had good marketing but really they were shit and you could
           | get much better quality for less price
        
             | colanderman wrote:
             | At the same time, in keeping with the theme of the article
             | -- spend the $75 for a good (i.e. well-regarded for your
             | use case) pair of headphones if you enjoy music. It is
             | absolutely night and day compared to $10 crap.
        
             | lupinglade wrote:
             | This is mainly because Beats headphones are just terrible
             | at any price and a perfect example of all their budget
             | going on marketing. Other headphones in the same price
             | range or even below can be very good.
        
       | RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote:
       | One thing I have found, is that buying stuff that is supposed to
       | last for life, ends up making the possessions own me, instead of
       | me own the possessions.
       | 
       | Especially with kids, when I have disposable objects, I don't
       | have to worry if they trash it, or get it dirty. I don't have to
       | worry about losing it(I can order a replacement on Amazon that
       | will be here in 2 days). With long-lasting products that are for
       | life, I find I worry about cleaning them, organizing them, and
       | protecting them.
       | 
       | Maybe to total cost of ownership is less for the more durable
       | product, but you only have to lose it once or damage it once for
       | the savings to go away.
        
         | lupinglade wrote:
         | On the other hand, crappy knock-off products aren't going to be
         | the right tool for most jobs and will fail when you need them
         | most. The trick to not being owned by your posessions is to
         | only own what you really, truly need.
         | 
         | Further, buying low-quality throw-away type products ends up
         | supporting the greedy, lazy low-quality manufacturers. We all
         | end up with only junk for choice.
         | 
         | And as @desine already commented: all this junk ends up in the
         | landfills, oceans, etc.
        
           | RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote:
           | Depends what you use them for.
           | 
           | > The trick to not being owned by your things is to only own
           | what you really, truly need.
           | 
           | I don't think that is quite right. Let's say you need a
           | button down shirt for work. So you only buy 5, custom
           | tailored shirts out of high quality materials. You have
           | bought a minimal amount, and you really do need those shirts.
           | 
           | When you are eating, are you not worried about getting
           | ketchup on your shirt. If kids come up to you, are you not
           | worried about them getting your shirt dirty. Are you worried
           | that your washer and dryer are being too harsh for your
           | shirts.
           | 
           | If on the other hand, you just get a bunch of ok shirts on
           | Amazon or WalMart. You just throw them in the washer and
           | dryer without thinking about it. You eat and play with your
           | kids, knowing if your shirt gets dirty, stained, or ripped,
           | it is not a big deal, you will just get another one.
           | 
           | I think the true key to not having your possessions own you
           | is easy replacability. If you can easily replace them, then
           | you can use them without worrying about them.
        
             | lupinglade wrote:
             | Shirts are more of a disposable product, they normally
             | don't last very long. So the difference between the cheap
             | knock off and proper quality isn't that significant.
             | Although you probably don't want to be wearing the cheapest
             | alibaba shirt to an important business meeting.
        
         | christiansakai wrote:
         | I think this is just a mindset issue. Which is non issue.
        
         | desine wrote:
         | With no disrespect (especially with children, I know their
         | destructive tendencies well enough), this sounds like a
         | shunning of responsibility, and irks me. Our cheap, disposable
         | consumer goods are ending up in landfills, our plastic waste
         | has permeated every square inch of the earth, and we continue
         | to justify these destructive habits.
         | 
         | If you need something, you should care for it, you should
         | maintain it, and you should commit to a certain level of care.
         | Not caring about your possessions and seeing them as disposable
         | validates the business models of shelling out crap quality
         | products and the further destruction of our environment.
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | imiric wrote:
           | I was about to post a similar comment, but you summed it up
           | nicely.
           | 
           | The landfill reality and the pollution they cause, especially
           | from e-waste, is devastating:
           | https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/burning-
           | truth-...
        
             | bigmattystyles wrote:
             | We should charge the disposal cost upfront at the point of
             | purchase. I know it's political suicide but it would solve
             | quite a few issues.
        
               | fwipsy wrote:
               | Maybe not so far-fetched. CA charges an ewaste recycling
               | fee already when you purchase certain items.
        
               | mavhc wrote:
               | Tax everything the amount it costs to clean up the
               | pollution it causes, from electricity to food. 2 side
               | effects: people will make things that produce less
               | pollution, and people will make cleaning up pollution
               | cheaper
        
         | fnord77 wrote:
         | perhaps we all have too many possessions.
        
         | m463 wrote:
         | yeah, there should be some products where "buy it for life"
         | might be... just don't buy one.
         | 
         | Do you really need a cast iron frying pan? They seem to be
         | over-represented in this category because they don't break. But
         | iron in your diet is not that good for you if you're male
         | because it accumulates.
         | 
         | Another thing to be wary of is "buy this best stuff" lists are
         | easy money, people will curate your lists for you, then you
         | just link to amazon and hoarding behavior does the rest.
        
         | alexpetralia wrote:
         | Reminds me of: "The things you own end up owning you."
        
         | loldk wrote:
         | One thing I have found, is that buying stuff that constantly
         | breaks down and becomes useless, ends up making these
         | posessions own me, instead of me own the posessions because I
         | constantly have to reorder new ones.
         | 
         | Especially with kids, when I have a long lasting products, I
         | don't have to worry about coughing up a ton of money over the
         | course of a few months or years just to keep replacing them,
         | and I don't have to worry if they trash it, or get it dirty
         | because I know it's covered. I also don't have to worry about
         | losing it because me and my family are responsible and rarely
         | lose things, mostly because the higher quality and warm fuzzy
         | feelings we get from spending money with a moral company, we
         | tend to all value the things we own much more. As such my kids
         | tend to clean, organize, and protect them without needing as
         | much discipline, and our friends and house guests also respect
         | us more because we take good care of ourselves and our
         | investments.
         | 
         | So not only is the total cost of ownership less for our more
         | durable, reliable products, but we also all feel very secure
         | and happy about the small purchases we make because they
         | provide so many benefits it feels more like an investment in
         | our world and each other. However, when it comes to disposable
         | and poorly made products we lose all of that before we even buy
         | the product.
         | 
         | p.s. we also don't have to spend nearly as much time shopping
         | or searching for good products because we can place a
         | reasonable amount of trust in the companies we are familiar
         | with, and whose products are tested and kid/spouse approved.
         | 
         | p.s.s. it feels amazing knowing we aren't enabling immoral
         | businesses and their employees, who would turn around and lobby
         | against important rights such as the right to repair our own
         | belongings.
        
       | tracer4201 wrote:
       | Some of the product listings are not great. I see non stick
       | skillets that I know won't last than a year or two with moderate
       | use. Otherwise I like the concept.
        
         | darksaints wrote:
         | I'm an avid user of carbon steel pans, but I bought one of the
         | hexclad pans just to try it out. It's actually really nice.
         | I've used it about 50% of the time for over a year now, and it
         | has held up really well. It's not as pretty as it was brand
         | new, but it is still non-stick and there is no noticeable
         | degradation.
        
         | bushbaba wrote:
         | It's always amazed me that high carbon steel / cast iron /
         | stainless steel pans aren't more commonly used.
         | 
         | You literally are buying it for life. They cook the food way
         | better. And a small amount of oil is all that's needed for eggs
         | and other non stick applications
        
           | colanderman wrote:
           | I tried a cast iron skillet and could not for the life of me
           | get it to heat evenly. I'm talking like French toast burnt
           | near the middle and uncooked at the edges.
           | 
           | Stainless steel triple-ply (copper + aluminum) pans though
           | have been fantastic. Even heating and nothing sticks with a
           | bit of oil.
           | 
           | I haven't figured out how to cook pancakes on them yet
           | though, without relying on the Leidenfrost effect, at which
           | point they just kinda burn and don't cook right.
        
           | lupinglade wrote:
           | They cook the best too - a good carbon steel pan is worth its
           | weight in gold. Non-stick is utter garbage in comparison -
           | and you're cooking on plastic and eating pieces of the
           | coating.
           | 
           | Food cooked on carbon steel or iron tastes so much better.
        
             | float4 wrote:
             | > and you're cooking on plastic and eating pieces of the
             | coating
             | 
             | There are actually ceramic non-stick pans, in which case
             | you'd be eating sand if I understand the concept correctly.
        
               | lupinglade wrote:
               | Non-stick pans do not last. The ceramic coating option is
               | terrible and everything will stick to it with a vengeance
               | within about 6-8 months or so if you use it regularly -
               | our experience with Cuisinart.
        
               | genericone wrote:
               | Non-stick pans require a bit of care as well. The trick
               | is to ensure no sudden temperature changes to the pan,
               | which will differentially expand/contract the cooking
               | surface. Differential expansion/contraction between the
               | top and bottom surface will crack the non-stick coating
               | in no time ( think expansion cracks in concrete and
               | sidewalks ).
               | 
               | What that usually comes down to is to let your non-stick
               | pan cool to room temperature before you run water over
               | it, even if you like seeing all that steam. Also, you
               | weren't expecting to sear meat with your nonstick anyway
               | so don't slap a massive cold slab of meat on your unoiled
               | non-stick either.
        
               | wander_homer wrote:
               | We got two ceramic coated pans 6 years ago and they're
               | almost as good as new even though we used one of them for
               | almost every cooked meal and the other like at least once
               | every week. They're a pleasure to work with and I
               | wouldn't want to miss them.
        
             | RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote:
             | > and you're cooking on plastic and eating pieces of the
             | coating.
             | 
             | And with cast iron, you are cooking in random organic
             | polymers and eating them. The patina of cast iron pans is
             | random organic chemicals.
        
               | lupinglade wrote:
               | I've not seen our cast iron or carbon steel pans flaking
               | off into food like I have seen with Teflon. I doubt there
               | is much of anything harmful coming off during cooking --
               | not any more harmful than the cooked food itself likely.
        
           | rolleiflex wrote:
           | I've bought into the cast iron hype a few years ago, and I
           | have found it a little overhyped. There are several reasons
           | why cast iron is not a common component of the average
           | kitchen today. Here are mine:
           | 
           | - The non-stickiness of cast iron has probably been best in
           | class in its age. Today, we have Teflon. Teflon is so non-
           | stick we have trouble having it stick to the pan when making
           | pans. My understanding is that nothing, especially nothing
           | you're likely to have in your kitchen, beats Teflon, ever.
           | (Kenji Lopez-Alt a well known chef and/or food scientist
           | alongside being a cast iron fan, also attests to this:
           | https://www.seriouseats.com/2014/11/the-truth-about-cast-
           | iro...)
           | 
           | - I've found that it does go against some of my (potentially
           | hypochondriac) cleaning tendencies. Essentially, you can wash
           | it and I think you can use soft soaps, but you can't really
           | actually scrub it with a hard sponge if you want to get the
           | food out fully. It seems that the carbonisation of food and
           | polymerisation of oil in a layer cake is in fact the thing
           | gives the cast iron its nonstick properties. To someone used
           | to the convivial shine of stainless steel, that's a tough
           | pill to swallow.
           | 
           | Cast iron is cool, and I'm sure it has its uses, but as
           | someone who only dabbles in kitchen stuff, I've found it very
           | inconvenient and frustrating to use.
        
             | kevinmchugh wrote:
             | You can wash with soap and water and your favorite sponge.
             | It's fine and will make your cast iron much more pleasant
             | to use.
             | 
             | If you really need nonstick (frying eggs, basically),
             | that's what you have to use, but cast iron and carbon steel
             | are incredibly versatile and a better buy if you're space-
             | limited than nonstick
        
             | greedo wrote:
             | I learned a really handy trick for cleaning my cast iron.
             | Heat the pan pretty hot (like the temp you'd use for
             | searing a steak). Run your tap water as hot as the faucet
             | will deliver, then (carefully) fill your cast iron pan with
             | the hot water. It will boil off 99% of the gunk in the pan,
             | and you can clean it out with a wet sponge.
        
             | lupinglade wrote:
             | Properly seasoned it will be as non-stick as Teflon or
             | better. Especially carbon steel, which is also lighter -
             | the main down side of cast iron is weight. Teflon flakes
             | are much worse for you than a bit of iron ever will be (not
             | really an issue in these amounts).
        
         | chaostheory wrote:
         | I agree with you. It looks like it made it onto the site
         | because it has a lifetime warranty. Still, I'm not keen on
         | eating flakes of PFAS aka Teflon as these types of products
         | wear out
        
           | darksaints wrote:
           | The hexclad pans do not use teflon. And you're expected to
           | season them...the non-stick nature is actually very similar
           | to carbon steel.
        
         | soneil wrote:
         | I was surprised to spot apple's "magic mouse" there too. I'm
         | fairly close to an apple fanboy, but even I'd admit non-
         | replaceable batteries isn't compatible with "buy it for life"
        
       | Scene_Cast2 wrote:
       | I like BIFL-type items for some categories of products, but not
       | others.
       | 
       | Some of the recommended items are great. I love high-quality
       | skillets, knives, rice cookers, etc.
       | 
       | For other items, I've seen an overly high focus on "specs" in the
       | BIFL community, where the durability comes at the price of being
       | uncomfortable and bulky. With shoes, it would be using X leather
       | here, using Y sole stitching there, etc. By comparison, I want
       | light-weight shoes with soft / no heel counter, that weigh less
       | than the recommended leather bricks. The bloody blisters I got
       | from "quality construction" forced me to figure out what I
       | personally need in a shoe.
        
       | ilovecaching wrote:
       | Instead of BFL, I only buy products that I'm ok with getting
       | destroyed or products I have a laid out upgrade plan for.
       | Example: All of my pants are Levi's 501s. I can get them for
       | 50-60 bucks, which is nothing. They last a really long time, but
       | they're not made in America nor do they have a lifetime warranty.
       | BUT I don't have to worry about spilling stuff on my pants or
       | going through the tedious process of filing warranty claims every
       | time a button breaks. I just get on the app and order a new pair.
       | 
       | What's more important to me is narrowing down the list of brands
       | I buy from so I spend less time thinking about shopping and more
       | time being productive.
        
         | JohnCohorn wrote:
         | It hurts me a little to see "50-60 bucks" for jeans referred to
         | as nothing. I now grudgingly buy similar $50-60 Levis or Eddie
         | Bauers because my wife likes them better than jeans that cost
         | half as much. Looks some common basic jeans at Walmart are
         | still ~$15 which is amazing since that's what I remember paying
         | for them like 15 years ago.
        
         | dehrmann wrote:
         | You should see how much made in America Levi's cost.
        
           | mikestew wrote:
           | You'll be buying them used, because they're no longer made:
           | 
           | https://www.heddels.com/2019/09/levis-no-longer-
           | producing-50...
        
             | dehrmann wrote:
             | There's always Lot 1.
        
             | aphextron wrote:
             | I had a pair of White Oak 501's. and honestly they were
             | inferior to just about every other pair of Levi's I've
             | owned. The denim was rough and coarse, and they ripped
             | fairly quick.
        
       | wyager wrote:
       | One really nice thing about safety-critical activities is that
       | the equipment tends to be made to extremely high standards and
       | usually lasts a very long time.
       | 
       | If you buy equipment for climbing, shooting, scuba diving, etc.
       | you can reasonably expect that it's made to a very exacting
       | standard (almost certainly in the US, Japan, or Europe) and will
       | last many years (with well-defined consumable components and
       | maintenance requirements).
        
         | jeffbee wrote:
         | You probably just have a decent budget for guns and haven't
         | seen the dodgy ones. The market is flooded with garbage that I
         | would not even consider firing.
        
       | artificial wrote:
       | Is this the Reddit board turned site or a separate venture?
        
         | emre wrote:
         | Separate venture (I'm not affiliated, just really like it)
        
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       (page generated 2021-04-17 23:01 UTC)