[HN Gopher] Stamping the joy out of collectors
___________________________________________________________________
Stamping the joy out of collectors
Author : jasonhansel
Score : 94 points
Date : 2021-04-17 15:09 UTC (7 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (notalwaysright.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (notalwaysright.com)
| readingnews wrote:
| I think OP failed to realize there are 0011 kinds of people in
| the world. 0001) your average joe. He just wants
| a stamp. 0010) You. You want some stamps, but you are
| not "into it". 0011) Those guys at the store. 0001 and
| 0010 are rubbish and should not be speaking to them, for they
| are elite stamp collectors, just like everyone else should be.
|
| It is getting harder to just find people "into it". I am a hi-fi
| enthusiast. I also have advanced degrees in EE and Physics, but I
| try to not let that get in the way. Talking to people on hi-fi
| forums seems MUCH harder than say, 10 years ago (and I never left
| the forum). Now I am one of the silent lurkers.
|
| My point is not to go "forums now suck", but I think that "real
| collectors" are too extreme now... hrm, perhaps just like
| everything else? Polarized?
| TheAceOfHearts wrote:
| A friend recently pointed out that fandoms are like a fractal,
| and as you zoom in it becomes increasingly hardcore and
| dedicated.
|
| The next layer on your list is probably the stamp collector
| that only loves a certain kind of stamp with some obscure
| feature and will talk your ear off about it. Probably something
| like how only the stamps made in a specific year by one company
| are any good because they use a highly specialized glue which
| really makes it the pinnacle of stamp technology. A real "they
| just don't make em like they used to".
|
| People become obsessed with things to such an extreme degree
| that they end up drowning out anyone without an equivalent
| level of dedication. It becomes a problem when people chose to
| play status games instead of just enjoying their hobby.
| nicbou wrote:
| I noticed this with history. You can go from general history
| to people who can tell you where a WW2 jeep engine was built
| based on its serial number.
|
| I also found that unlike with most hobbies, I find history
| talk much more civilised all around. People are eager to
| share, and generally willing to accept well-sourced
| disagreement.
| dehrmann wrote:
| > A friend recently pointed out that fandoms are like a
| fractal, and as you zoom in it becomes increasingly hardcore
| and dedicated.
|
| Almost everything is like that. Turtles...
| HWR_14 wrote:
| >People become obsessed with things to such an extreme degree
| that they end up drowning out anyone without an equivalent
| level of dedication. It becomes a problem when people chose
| to play status games instead of just enjoying their hobby.
|
| It's true in academia and in technical fields as well. As you
| become an expert, details most people skip over become very
| important parts of your day.
|
| The real difference is between people who disdain you for not
| knowing as much as they do about some issue, those who
| enthusiastically try to educate you, and those who recognize
| not everyone cares about it as much as they do and tries to
| speak to whatever level you are at (or slightly above it if
| you've expressed a desire to go deeper.)
| tjr225 wrote:
| It is the same thing in synth and guitar circles. Maybe now we
| have just discussed all of these things as nauseum for so long
| the only way to move the discussion forward is this
| extremeness.
| dehrmann wrote:
| Which strap lock sounds best? I hear schallers don't resonate
| well.
| navbaker wrote:
| I just found this out the hard way. After playing acoustic
| for ~15 years, I decided my birthday this year was the time
| to join the world of electric guitars. I joined several
| guitar related FB groups, expecting them to be as civil as
| the tabletop gaming groups I belong to (my other hobby). I
| quickly found out how wrong I was, it seemed there was no
| topic too mundane to turn into a mud slinging gate keeper
| competition. Not sure what it is about musical instruments
| that makes it that way.
| pmiller2 wrote:
| I own an electric cello that I occasionally play and used
| to take lessons with. Back when I was looking for a
| teacher, I had a hard time finding anyone who'd let me use
| it during lessons. Most of them wanted me to rent a wooden
| cello.
|
| I get that there are a lot of bad electric cellos out
| there, and there are some good electrics that are bad for
| beginners. But, mine is a Yamaha SVC-100 [0]. It's a
| professional-worthy instrument, even if most professionals
| don't use it. It has all the correct touch points as a
| regular cello, and it responds like a normal cello, so, as
| far as learning goes, it's just fine.
|
| With cello people, I think it's a sense of conservatism or
| something. I didn't really want to rent an instrument, so,
| I kept looking until I found someone who would just let me
| play my own. The guy I found was amazing, and owned his own
| electric. He also played cello in a rock band. I'm sure all
| those other cello teachers were fine, but I had a blast
| with this guy, and I'm glad I found him.
|
| [0]: https://www.yamaha.com/en/about/innovation/collection/
| detail...
| kbenson wrote:
| Some forums exemplify the long tail of hobby fanaticism. What
| used to be a couple people in the back of the convention that
| were hardcore is now a large group of those disparate people in
| a forum.
|
| Sometimes you have to find a different forum. That's also why
| you'll see multiple subreddits for the same thing. They embody
| different aspects of the topic and draw people that associate
| with that aspect. Sometimes some of the same people in both,
| but the purport themselves differently depending on where they
| are.
| bpcpdx wrote:
| > Now I am one of the silent lurkers.
|
| So that's where you guys went.
|
| I remember how forums used to always have a few extremely
| knowledgeable individuals that would post and give insights but
| for the most part would be pretty nice and humble. Sometimes
| they even worked in the industy. And a lot of times they
| wouldn't even comment until another user called them out.
|
| Then the psuedo experts started showing up. They either
| overestimate their experience or just spent some time on
| wikipedia and think that they're an expert, and they make a
| point to pick apart every post they can. And even less
| knowledgeable posters will back the pseudo expert because they
| are relentless and are able to sound smart.
| sneak wrote:
| I think a lot of collectors collect specifically for the same
| reason people grind in RPGs: to get the mental and emotional
| satisfaction from the "complete set" (of stamps, or rare armor,
| or whatever).
|
| Collecting without such a goal would, to people like that (who I
| assume comprise the large majority of collectors) would seem like
| a colossal waste of time. Why grind out the dungeon to get the
| greaves and the chest plate and then not spend a few more hours
| to get the helm?!!
|
| Most human behavior is not very rational, and I say that
| referring to both parties in this story.
| lb1lf wrote:
| -The problem, of course, being: What do you do when the
| collection is complete? (I ran into that problem once - I
| collected stamps fairly seriously during my childhood and
| youth, spurred on by my father who was and is really into it.
|
| However, I narrowed my collection to two themes - Norway and
| scout-themed stamps and letters from all over the world.
|
| Once the Norway collection was complete to the current date, it
| was a massive 'meh' moment - just obtaining new stamps as they
| were issued wasn't much of a challenge, so the Norway albums
| were put on the shelf, and interest in stamp collecting
| withered quickly.
|
| Oh well. It was great fun while it lasted. :)
| dehrmann wrote:
| The process of collecting was probably most of the fun,
| anyway. That said, I could see how the internet ruined it
| because 99% of what you're looking for can be in your hands
| in a week for the right price.
| lb1lf wrote:
| -I've met collectors (of records, in that case) who had
| what I consider an admirable attitude towards the perils of
| instant eBay gratification - seeing as the chase in most
| cases was better than the catch, they'd imposed a 'no
| Internet' rule - albums were only bought in physical record
| stores, at record fairs, garage sales &c - but, as it was
| put - 'Unless I can chat a bit with the seller, then put
| the money in his hand, there's no deal.'
|
| I'd imagine it makes the hobby equal measures more
| rewarding and frustrating.
|
| (I've since tried to adopt this approach myself as far as
| practically possible - seeing as for me (YMMV), the social
| aspect of discussing music and artists with other
| enthusiasts is a major part of the appeal, helping me
| discover new music on ways no auction site can.
| compiler-guy wrote:
| Not every hobby needs to be a lifelong hobby. The things you
| learn and the enjoyment you get while it is current can be
| worth it alone.
| klelatti wrote:
| Lots of discussion about collecting (and in seeking to own a
| complete set of stamps, coins etc) vs exploring. I wonder though
| if for most if the pleasure is in a combination of the two.
|
| When I was very young I collected the stamps of my country -
| which I guess will be fairly common. Seeking out issues that I
| was missing was appealing and there was definitely a thrill in
| tracking down missing items.
|
| At the same time I learned about history (albeit in a superficial
| way) both from knowing about the era in which the stamps were
| issued and, for more recent issues, from the topics depicted on
| the stamps. That knowledge seemed to stick too and more so than
| just from reading books. I guess I also learned a little about
| markets and scarcity.
|
| I wonder if that knowledge would have stuck without the effort of
| seeking and the reward of finding and whether we have lost
| something in the ease of access to information today.
| lordnacho wrote:
| What? You're just coding for fun? Where's your helm charts? If
| you're going to be serious about this, you'll need to learn three
| languages. HTML isn't a language. Make sure it works across
| platforms, too. Also, you have make it multicloud.
| gamacodre wrote:
| What? You only put in one load balancer? What were you
| _thinking_?
| gscott wrote:
| but I just want to host my sites on GoDaddy
| dehrmann wrote:
| > I am just sentimental about my childhood pastime and keepsake,
| and I want to recapture it as best as I can.
|
| Sigh. I get the desire, but it feels like it just won't be the
| same.
| michrassena wrote:
| I've had a similar realization rather recently when cleaning
| out my parent's house after both their deaths. My father got me
| into stamp and coin collecting as a young child and it was an
| opportunity to bond and have something in common. For many
| years now, I haven't given the hobby much thought. Seeing the
| remnants on the old stamp collection brought back some
| memories. As I looked up values and got a better idea of what
| the collection might be worth, I could see clearly that even
| sheets of uncanceled stamps, which I used to prize, were near
| worthless. Some of that difference in perceived value is
| explained by the perceptions of a child versus that of an
| adult. But these stamps just hadn't appreciated much in value
| over many years, certainly not the degree anyone could call
| them a good investment.
|
| But what was most striking to me, which I hadn't really thought
| about when I was young collecting these for entertainment, was
| just how particular and stultifying the grading systems for any
| collectible can be. I think the system, and how it interacts
| with money, is the culprit. There is this undercurrent of
| curation and preservation that goes along with collecting which
| leads to perfectly preserved toys in boxes. I appreciate things
| in themselves, and not just for their use. But I dislike the
| idea that a blemish, like a torn perforation on a sheet of
| stamps, can devastate the value of an object. For the objects I
| have several of, their use contributes to my enjoyment. If
| other people want to maintain museums, that's up to them.
| philjohn wrote:
| I'd argue that since they brought you and your father closer
| together, and was something you spent time with him doing,
| they're priceless - what does it matter if they weren't a
| good investment monetarily, time, and especially time with
| people who you won't have in your life for the entire
| duration, is worth more, because no amount of money can buy
| more of it.
| michrassena wrote:
| I agree, there's no question that was the real value. I
| should point out that whatever made it fun is gone.
| Whatever I found compelling about design or history as
| exemplified in stamps, is available through the Internet
| and books. If I were to collect stamps again, it would be
| images of stamps, not the fragile artifacts themselves.
| temp0826 wrote:
| Reminded of the scene in the movie Unbreakable when Samuel L
| Jackson's character refuses to sell the rare drawing to the man
| after he reveals it was going to be a gift for a young child, who
| would be unable to fully appreciate it.
| jonnycomputer wrote:
| This story reminded me of something I lost about the same age. My
| grandfather was a surveyor and he gave me his compass. It was not
| an expensive one, though it was made of bronze. I took it with me
| to Los Angeles. I don't think it ever came back. But I don't know
| _where_ I lost track of it. I wish I still had it to remember him
| by.
| celesti wrote:
| Maybe because stamp collecting was the first shopclerks
| "business" he did not really see the joy in it any longer?
| Logical arrangements are nice but aesthetic arrangements are also
| nice!
| Vaslo wrote:
| Funny to see this - had a similar situation recently (sort of)
| with a train shop. I couldn't care less about collecting trains -
| I bought a train a few years ago for xmas and my kids loved it so
| I bought a year round one as well. Lionel trains are not cheap
| and easy to repair. Both have already broke where a significant
| repair was needed.
|
| I watched videos and tried to fix one that wouldn't fire up at
| all. Took it to the shop and the proprieties seemed kind of
| annoying with me as I asked for their help to repair (of course
| intending to pay). They gave me a lecture about letting a four
| year old play with a train like this. Usually I'd lose my temper
| and start arguing but my son really missed the train.
|
| They ended up replacing the engine board ($120 bucks) and took
| forever to get it back to me.
|
| I get that people have sacrosanct hobbies like coding, sports,
| etc. They have to understand that dilettantes like me may want to
| dabble!
|
| Also I am a self taught DBA and never ever use keys. I'll take in
| any incoming fire as probably deserved :).
| m463 wrote:
| I went to a train store a few years back, and yes there was
| definitely a "trains are serious business" vibe about the
| place.
|
| Maybe it's because most of the customers have white hair and
| extra money.
|
| Thing is, it's hilarious how seriously trains are done!
|
| You buy a DCC locomotive and it has lights that light up in the
| direction of travel. The engine spools up with a delay like a
| real locomotive with sound increasing, the air brakes releasing
| and only then does it move. And they have 20 horns to choose
| from - pick the right one for the regional line you're
| simulating. Sort of nuts.
|
| I was talking to another customer though and he balanced it all
| out. He said he had too many trains. He told me it was really
| relaxing to go downstairs after dinner with a glass of wine and
| run his trains or work on his layout.
|
| I think the best train guy was Gomez Addams.
| ineptech wrote:
| Growing up, I knew a guy, friend of my Dad's, who had an
| incredibly elaborate train set in his basement. It's clear he
| had thousands of hours invested in it. I never got in to
| trains, but I do have a hobby video game coding project, and
| I'm struck by how similar it is to a model train hobby:
|
| * I work on it exclusively in the evenings after the kids are
| asleep
|
| * It relaxes me and gives me something to daydream about
| during work meetings
|
| * It'll never make me any money and it'll never be done
|
| The funny thing about my Dad's friend was, he hated showing
| off his trains. Very few people knew it existed, and even
| fewer had seen it; he only let me see it once, and my dad was
| his best friend for 40+ years.
|
| Back then I thought he was secretive, or afraid I'd break
| something. Now that I have my own pointless hobby, I think I
| understand him better. It's embarrassing to put so much time
| and thought into something and to have someone see it and
| say, "Neat! So, anyway..." I guess it's more valuable as a
| private solace than as a conversation piece.
| m463 wrote:
| I think it's nice, maybe even necessary, to have something
| that you enjoy, and maybe you're even good at, but you
| don't have to care about and doesn't have to become a
| responsibility.
|
| I had little hobby projects, and people were like - you
| should make this into a product. And I had to fight this
| sort of "am I too lazy to do it? am I afraid?" but really,
| I just needed something that didn't have a point.
|
| I also think there are a lot of things I didn't "get" as a
| kid. I remember trying golf as a kid, and I thought "this
| is so totally boring, why don't these guys ride bikes
| instead?" And it's only when you get (much) older do you
| realize people have so much responsibility that getting
| outside and walking around is a treasure. (of course it
| could be other things)
| ansible wrote:
| I was nodding along with you (though I'm not into trains
| anymore) until this:
|
| > _Also I am a self taught DBA and never ever use keys. I'll
| take in any incoming fire as probably deserved :)._
|
| ... that 's like saying "I'm a self-taught programmer, but I
| never use functions."
|
| I mean, yeah, you can still get some things done that way, but
| if you spent a little time learning what's possible, you might
| be a lot happier with the end product.
| grawprog wrote:
| >that's like saying "I'm a self-taught programmer, but I
| never use functions."
|
| Once you've mastered if/else and goto, what else do ya need?
| ansible wrote:
| Well, technically... you are correct.
|
| It would still be an improvement over the older BASIC
| dialects, because with those it was common to have a limit
| to the number of variables due to names being one or two
| letters.
| gamacodre wrote:
| Yep. ZX81 BASIC had 26 string variables (A$ through Z$)
| and 26 floating point variables (A through Z). No integer
| variables per se, but you could POKE and PEEK to get at
| 8-bit values anywhere in memory - which typically maxed
| out at 16K.
| zeta0134 wrote:
| Here come the traumatic memories of doing If/Then/Goto on
| TI-Basic, not understanding the Else or End tokens at all.
| Turns out each If/Then opens a new stack frame, and because
| I was never closing them with the corresponding tokens,
| memory slowly filled while the program ran. You could
| therefore get a high score of exactly 203 on my PONG clone
| before it crashed.
|
| Good times! But seriously, take a few minutes to learn your
| tools properly if you use them more than once, it'll make
| things so much easier. :)
| samatman wrote:
| In other words, a whole subculture.
|
| This used to be very common with VBA, I would expect these
| days it's more of a Python thing.
|
| Someone wants to do something, they find out that the thing
| they want to do is "programming", and they start writing a
| script that can do that thing. They add to it, it gets
| longer, it works.
|
| They probably know functions _exist_ but don 't really get
| why they would use one. There's a decent chance they'll never
| get it, and that's fine.
|
| I have roughly ten python scripts I use for this and that,
| and three of them don't have any functions. I wrote a similar
| no-function python script for a work thing a couple jobs
| back, and my CTO was kind of ticked off, said I should know
| better, and don't submit it for code review again without a
| main() function and some "proper separation of concerns".
|
| Which, fine; it's his company, the rewrite is trivial, I
| probably cleaned some things up a bit. But the script was
| fine the way it was.
| m463 wrote:
| OTOH, I can see not using subroutines with side effects...
| bombcar wrote:
| LEGO makes (made) trains that are roughly Lionel size and
| they're much more durable (and though some of the parts are
| older and expensive, they're available).
| zabzonk wrote:
| Yeah, you should collect what interests you. My Dad, who was an
| RAF V-bomber captain, had a great (and quite valuable) collection
| based on early airmail, with pictures of airships and biplanes on
| the stamps.
| kingsuper20 wrote:
| The fight for status among males will never end.
|
| It took me decades to chat in bars about things I have a _lot_ of
| detailed knowledge about. Learning to listen to stories and not
| automatically correct took some time.
|
| Nobody loves a pedant.
| vmception wrote:
| > Nobody loves a pedant.
|
| I've taken it a step further and play along with spiritual and
| astrology talk from women.
|
| About 2/3rds of guys and 1/3rd of other women act very confused
| that I'm not immediately denigrating the person talking about
| signs and dietary restrictions. Turns out all you have to do is
| not do that, and a lot of things open up with very visually
| attractive people. Yeah, I'll talk about higher vibrations with
| the fun lean vegan woman.
|
| They're used to people pedantically challenging their belief
| system, but many can amplify their interest in you if you
| simply don't do that.
| lupire wrote:
| How about just being a decent human being instead a creepy
| pickup artist?
| mcphage wrote:
| Are the only 2 kinds of people "creepy pickup artist" and
| "asshole"?
| vmception wrote:
| I don't mind that belief system, and I'm actually
| advocating for people to not denigrate or lecture people
| that talk about astrology. The bar shouldn't be so low. I'm
| pretty sure this is being a decent human being, you're
| assuming a lot for a reason beyond me. I would still use
| the term play along because it is accurate.
| wisty wrote:
| Is it really just a "fight for status among males"?
|
| If you don't correct someone, I only see two possibilities:
|
| 1. The topic is so worthless (to you) it doesn't matter if
| they're wrong.
|
| 2. They are so worthless (to you) it's not worth correcting
| them on an important topic.
|
| 2b. They lack the intelligence (IQ or EQ) to grow from being
| corrected.
|
| Of course, a some of the time this is right.
|
| Yes there's also a chance that you're wrong (in which case
| correcting them may result in you being corrected, or at least
| a potentially fruitful discussion), but the same would apply -
| is the topic and person worthwhile the chance of upsetting a
| thin-skinned idiot?
| Guthur wrote:
| Maybe because generally men have a lot of trouble identifying
| their self worth in society, maybe because few people are
| actually that sympathetic to men and their struggle to find
| meaningful fulfillment within their lives.
|
| Every struggle is seen as a negative, some "toxic" side of
| masculinity that needs to be eradicated rather than embraced
| and understood. We are positively hostile to it.
|
| And somewhat strangely we also attack femininity, though in a
| less openly hostile manner, more killed with compassion. We
| seem to feel sorry for outward femininity which appears to be
| having the effect of pushing women towards a more masculine
| outlook. I feel we no longer adore femininity like we once did.
|
| Some may argue that this is all for the best, and that we need
| to push us all to some more less defined state, but I'm not so
| sure that the cost in diversity is worth it.
| kingsuper20 wrote:
| This brings to mind Ted Kaczynski's manifesto in terms of the
| need for achievable, non-trivial goals and the inability of
| so-called 'surrogate' goals to really satisfy that need.
| pmiller2 wrote:
| I love when people reference Kaczynski's work in serious
| discussions like this. Ted Kaczynski the domestic terrorist
| and murderer was not a person to be admired, but Ted
| Kaczynski the anarcho-primitivist philosopher is one of the
| most underrated and important intellectuals of the late
| 20th century. There's an awful lot packed into his
| manifesto, and I wish more people could see past his crimes
| in order to take that in.
|
| BTW, I found out he's updated the manifesto, and that it,
| along with some other of his works, was published in an
| anthology in 2010:
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_Kaczynski#Other_works
| msrenee wrote:
| I've definitely had my femininity attacked in an openly
| hostile manner. Often. When I was in junior high and high
| school, I thought women were the lesser sex and eschewed
| girly hobbies and clothing in favor of more masculine things.
| No dresses, no makeup, I cooked in order to eat, nothing
| fancy. I hung out with the guys and played video games. It
| wasn't until the last 5 years or so that I realized I could
| wear skirts out shopping and work a blue collar job during
| the week. I know masculinity is under attack in many circles,
| but it's quite the claim to say that femininity is less so.
| ISL wrote:
| Collections can be both free* and compelling: https://www-cs-
| faculty.stanford.edu/~knuth/diamondsigns/diam...
|
| * at least in capital cost. I imagine he expended plenty of time
| and travel on the subject.
| irrational wrote:
| I wonder what those 2 guys in the store were doing all day? Just
| buying and selling rare stamps? Maybe hoping to find that one
| stamp to complete some collection?
| nlh wrote:
| I collected coins avidly when I was ~10-13 and the hobby just re-
| ignited itself with me again, now 30 years later (I can't exactly
| explain how or why, but here we are).
|
| I went to a coin show today on a whim and what I discovered was
| that there are ALL types of collectors, and everyone should
| really understand that:
|
| * There's 10 year old me that was obsessed with finding the rare
| die varieties hidden in the $1 bins,
|
| * There's 42 year old me that is now getting deep joy buying the
| rare gems (1790s silver dollars, $20 gold pieces, etc.) that were
| beyond out-of-reach of 10-year-old me
|
| * There's folks who obsess over filling every date of a specific
| series
|
| Etc. etc. etc.
|
| Find your joy and run with it, and _definitely_ don 't try to
| tell someone that their joy is the wrong one.
| WalterBright wrote:
| > It takes me several years to actually accept that the stamp
| album is gone, not hiding in a box somewhere or shelved away in
| some dusty corner of my mum's garage.
|
| I lost my comic book collection. I was sure it was stolen. I
| looked everywhere for it.
|
| About 20 years later it reappeared in the back of the closet. I
| have no explanation.
| StavrosK wrote:
| Isn't it obvious? The thief returned them after they finished
| reading them.
| 8bitsrule wrote:
| Stamps are one of the most portable collectibles. (Along with
| bugs.) Moves forced the loss of other collections ... but I've
| kept the collection of "only about 6000 or 7000 stamps" I made as
| a kid (I counted once).
|
| It went with me to stay at grandma's, on babysitting jobs, on
| summer trips that went to nowhere to do nothing. Open the book,
| get out the hinges, dive in.
|
| I learned a lot about world geography, culture, arts and crafts,
| and political BS from those revealing little bits of 'official'
| history. The 'most valuable' stamp I found (nothing printed on
| it) taught me -nothing-.
| justin_oaks wrote:
| > So, for you, it was just a form of mindless entertainment? A
| hobby?
|
| Wow, such condescension. Reminds me of the saying "Everyone
| thinks other people's hobbies are a waste of time". For some it's
| stamp collecting, others it's watching musicals, and others do
| programming. Everyone should be allowed to do what they love in
| their spare time without others looking down on them.
| criddell wrote:
| I'm a fan of John Lennon's take. He supposedly said "Time you
| enjoy wasting, was not wasted."
| dehrmann wrote:
| I almost appreciated how condescending he was. As someone who
| tries to avoid collecting, it just reinforced that decision.
|
| I used to collect Star Trek Christmas tree ornaments. At some
| point, I realized I'd just get a new one, put it in the box
| with the others, and not touch it until I open the box in a
| year. The end game of collecting seemed very futile.
|
| This gave me a better appreciation for things that are
| performed (like playing an instrument) because they're never
| perfect, never finished, and there might not even be an
| artifact of it.
| Baeocystin wrote:
| My parents were huge collectors of ...stuff. Not quite
| hoarding, but in the same neighborhood.
|
| I was for a while, too, simply because of how I was raised.
| But as my own home filled, I clearly noticed how less happy I
| was becoming. And when my parents passed, the work of dealing
| with a full home was, frankly put, awful.
|
| I purposefully have changed my hobbies to things like music,
| cooking, gardening. Gaming, too. You can practice a musical
| piece a thousand times- it doesn't add to your mess. Cooking
| fulfills an immediate need, and it's been my experience that
| quality food as a gift is more appreciated than almost any
| physical artifact. And plants bring their own joy, without
| continuously taking more space.
|
| My mother once told me late in her life to spend my money on
| experiences, not things, and I think about it often. She was
| right.
| Turing_Machine wrote:
| That attitude reminded me of a guy who owned a used book store
| in a town where I used to live.
|
| He had all the "literary" stuff on prominent display, and all
| the genre fiction crammed into the back.
|
| Oh, he'd _sell_ you science fiction, or mysteries, or romance,
| or whatever, but he 'd always make sure to give you a little
| sneer when ringing you up. "Enjoy your trash, lowbrow!"
|
| His store went out of business and he had to liquidate his
| entire stock at 90% off.
| Baeocystin wrote:
| We have an awesome local used bookstore that has managed to
| survive the covid shutdowns.
|
| Their secret? They have their 'trashy lowbrow' proudly front
| and center. They, of course, carry everything, but they also
| know what sells, and want people happily reading, no other
| requirements.
|
| Turns out that sort of approach leads to lifelong, regular
| customers!
| lupire wrote:
| Mitchell and Webb, "The Insulting Librarian"
|
| https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rqTE-ig7NhY
| true_religion wrote:
| Many people who go to stamp dealers are collecting because of a
| personal interest in history. It's a hobby, but it's a serious
| hobby for them with non-entertainment goals. It's those people
| who start stamp stores, visit them, and generally keep the
| entire industry alive.
|
| Finding someone who simply does it for 'joy' is against the
| grain.
|
| It's like having a Porsche and not knowing anything about its
| internals or engineering history and simply driving it for fun
| on the track. If you join a car club, they'll think you are
| weird for not caring or knowing the displacement of your engine
| or your tire size.
| bartread wrote:
| > It's like having a Porsche and not knowing anything about
| its internals or engineering history and simply driving it
| for fun on the track. If you join a car club, they'll think
| you are weird for not caring or knowing the displacement of
| your engine or your tire size.
|
| Who cares if they do? If you want to buy a Porsche to enjoy
| hooning it around the track without knowing about any of that
| stuff, and if you can afford it? Why not do it? Who cares
| what those people think?
|
| I absolutely don't mind if people want to geek out on the
| details or really take their hobbies seriously: that's
| totally cool. I do start to mind a bit when they expect me to
| do the same when that might not be what I want to do.
| true_religion wrote:
| > I do start to mind a bit when they expect me to do the
| same when that might not be what I want to do.
|
| I definitely agree that it's annoying.
| foodstances wrote:
| I've been involved in many car clubs and have never seen
| anyone think someone is "weird" for not knowing those things,
| they just assume the person isn't that interested in caring
| about those technical details (akin to being at a tech
| conference and there being programmers vs. users of a
| platform). As long as you have an interest in the cars and
| are sociable, other people are generally happy that you're
| there.
| lb1lf wrote:
| -Myself, I don't listen to country&western music, but I don't
| want to denigrate people who do.
|
| Oh, if you listen to C&W and read this - 'denigrate' means 'put
| down'.
|
| :)
|
| (I agree wholeheartedly, though - to each his own, and if I
| find joy in collecting whatever stamps come my way, then so be
| it - chances are I have as much fun collecting as someone who,
| say, only collects NK100 (Norwegian 10 ore posthorn stamp) - it
| was printed over several decades, more than half a billion of
| them in a country of (then) a couple of million inhabitants -
| lots of minor variations in paper, ink, engravings...)
| bobsled wrote:
| I know what I am meant to think and feel in response to this
| article, but I don't. Keeping in mind that this was written by
| the one of the three people in the story, who took it upon
| themselves to post about the experience online later, I can only
| assume there is some level of bias and quite possibly
| exaggeration. Put simply, these are the facts of the interaction:
| 1. An inexperienced individual enters a highly specialized area.
| 2. Someone who we can assume is highly experienced takes time out
| of their day to explain to them their (probably popular)
| conception of how the specialized area functions. 3. This
| experienced individual gives them something of value relating to
| the highly specialized area (I do not know what the cash value of
| this thing is, but it is nonzero), likely in hopes of future
| business. 4. The inexperienced individual is upset and posts
| about the interaction online, tagging it with "jerk".
|
| I understand the point of the article, but the characterization
| of the shopkeeper seems unfair. If you're unwilling to learn from
| someone because they don't understand what exactly you're trying
| to do, or because they speak condescendingly, or because they
| smell bad, or because you disagree with their opinion on X, Y, or
| Z, you will not learn very much.
| bittercynic wrote:
| I thought this was written in an open enough way to leave room
| for a wide range of takeaways, and it also seems fair to say
| the shop keeper was acting like a jerk. Not that he's obliged
| to serve a client who's looking for something so different from
| what the shop provides, but he could have been more pleasant,
| and just let the customer know he doesn't have what he's
| looking for.
|
| I think there is a place in the world for people with
| specialized interests to have a shop that caters exclusively to
| other people who are deep into the hobby, and to be a little
| brusk to normies who wander in looking for something else. It
| sure would have been a lot nicer if the shop keeper just
| understood the situation and kindly explained "That's not what
| we do here", but, hey, not everybody's gonna be super nice.
| It's part of life.
| II2II wrote:
| Perhaps it is honest rather than embellished. I have had
| similar experiences with bike shops. Some seem to be more
| interested in converting or repulsing customers who don't fit
| their definition of serious.
|
| That being said, the author did walk into the shop with a
| rather difficult request. How do you recreate something
| personal?
| MattGaiser wrote:
| Just to add some context for why the dealer probably acted that
| way.
|
| Stamp collectors for exploration are quite a bit different from
| the kinds of collectors that tend to go to stamp dealers (I am
| one of those collectors).
|
| You end up focussing on extremely narrow areas of the hobby to
| the point where you are hunting down which library has a painting
| a stamp is copied from or trying to track down an envelope sent
| by a particular person from a particular city.
|
| You can have 10 different variations of a stamp that look all the
| same except under a magnifying glass.
|
| There are collectors who have hundreds of thousands of dollars in
| their collections and all of the same single stamp. Just 1000
| different copies of it.
|
| The premier component of my collection is an exhibit on the 1982
| Canadian Philatelic Youth Issue, a single stamp series (about
| stamps).
|
| So for a lot of collectors (including the ones willing to spend
| thousands a year) it's less an accumulation hobby and more a
| specific research project.
|
| Not excusing the behaviour of the dealers, but meeting someone
| who collected so widely could be unusual for them.
| mcguire wrote:
| The problem is that some of those collectors don't realize that
| there are any other ways of approaching a hobby.
|
| A while back on BGG, someone new dropped a question in a forum
| about designing a game based on a web comic. He was told
| immediately that he'd never make money, that he'd never be
| successful without more experience than he'd be willing to get,
| and to top it off, got a long lecture from one grognard about
| how the game---based on a comic---would be a total failure
| unless he dropped the concept and rebased it on said grognard's
| own ideas.
|
| The newbie concluded, rightly, that it wasn't a welcoming
| community.
| yannis wrote:
| I have collected stamps as a kid and I have been collecting
| Postal History for decades on and off, focusing mainly on
| research and writing up the covers that I have managed to
| collect. Kept me sane during the COVID-19 lockdowns.
|
| Philately is not about 'chasing madly a missing stamp', but a
| journey for those interested in history, especially local
| history. It is still a great hobby and to anyone interested to
| start, start from buying a small collection. Most collectors
| will either buy from a dealer, but most often from an auction.
| See https://stampauctionnetwork.com/ as an example. You can
| build a collection with very little money or spent hundreds of
| thousands.
|
| It inspires me to hold an old letter (cover or wrapper in
| philatelic jargon), that has travelled through a ship across
| continents and has survived for 200 years and now is in my
| collection. Pre-stamp letters go for very little, especially
| North American, British and really for a song for most European
| countries.
|
| The bitcoin of the early eighties was 'getting into hard
| assets'. Lots of funds invested into stamps and drove prices to
| levels that collectors couldn't buy. They burnt their fingers,
| while collectors waited. It is still a huge market possibly 3-5
| billion USD a year. As an investment I would not recommend
| them, but as a nice indoor hobby and to socialize outside your
| own circle is worth it.
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