[HN Gopher] Inflammation, but Not Telomere Length, Predicts Agei...
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Inflammation, but Not Telomere Length, Predicts Ageing at Extreme
Old Age
Author : evo_9
Score : 281 points
Date : 2021-04-16 19:14 UTC (1 days ago)
(HTM) web link (pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov)
(TXT) w3m dump (pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov)
| [deleted]
| derefr wrote:
| Anyone know how long mice live with all the genes for
| inflammatory responses knocked out?
| pmiller2 wrote:
| Such an organism probably wouldn't be compatible with life.
| Inflammation is necessary for healing wounds and immune
| response, among other things.
| Robotbeat wrote:
| What is inflammation, exactly?
| frombody wrote:
| It's an immune system response.
|
| It's your body trying to fix itself.
|
| If you get injured, the inflammation around the wound is
| signaling your body to bring white blood cells to that
| location.
|
| Unless you have some sort of imbalance in your body, like a
| genetic issue, it's usually better to target controlling the
| source of the inflammation rather than the inflammation itself.
|
| Inflammation can be more mental than physical in many cases, as
| your body is going to react to your environment and the way you
| perceive it and raise and lower your cortisol levels
| accordingly.
|
| This likely doesn't answer your question fully, but just some
| items to consider.
| mattowen_uk wrote:
| Redness round a sore or cut? Inflammation.
|
| Swollen gums around a dying tooth? Inflammation.
|
| Sore stomach due to food intolerance? Inflammation.
| Robotbeat wrote:
| But what _is_ inflammation?
| TimSchumann wrote:
| Anecdote, but this may explain why I feel so much healthier when
| I'm fasting regularly.
|
| Turns out, if you stop putting everything but water/salt in your
| body, there's not much left that causes inflammation.
| gopalv wrote:
| > why I feel so much healthier when I'm fasting regularly.
|
| Considering this is Ramadan and fasting is pretty much on-
| topic, I notice a big difference between the religious fasts
| and the self-regulated ones.
|
| The ramadan fasting without water seems to result in a net
| weight loss between the morning and the first meal.
|
| On the other hand, people like me who do drink
| water/electrolytes, see our weight go up in the day from
| drinking water to compensate for the hunger.
|
| A small part of what you experience might just be reaching
| adequate hydration and dropping salt levels to a more healthy
| level over the day.
| mahkeiro wrote:
| Ramadan is not really about fasting in the way science is
| studying it. During Ramadan people really eat a lot when it
| is allowed. It may be considered intermittent fasting...
| treeman79 wrote:
| Was in a massive Sjogrens flare. Stopped eating for a month.
| Collapsing aside, my inflammation was fixed.
|
| Did a month on sweet potatoes. Very boring but same result.
| cauliflower2718 wrote:
| Why sweet potatoes?
| mkoubaa wrote:
| Yeah why not cauliflower
| nwienert wrote:
| Okinawa diet is some 40% sweet potatoes and top
| percentile life span so can't hurt.
| foerbert wrote:
| Sure it could. You can't just isolate some portion of a
| highly complex system and claim that the isolated portion
| will be beneficial in any similar system.
|
| Just for an extreme example to make the point - say some
| diet included a poisonous component as well as the
| antidote. Those eating the diet may well be just fine.
| However if somebody else simply looked at the poisonous
| part and copied only that, they would not do so well.
|
| I'm not saying sweet potatoes are bad. And I'm sure this
| was a somewhat flippant statement, but this is the kind
| of thinking we're very prone to and I think it's
| important to recognize when it actually tries to lead us
| down the wrong path.
| nwienert wrote:
| It was a flippant statement, but it's still more right
| than your righteous reply.
|
| I have experience here, literally with isolation diets
| for immune issues on starches, common for immunologists
| to run, see AIP which can start extreme down to one
| thing. I had a friend who had to do a super intense
| version, luckily, mine was quick.
|
| There's no problem with flippant statements, just bad
| faith replies that try and pick fights over nothing.
|
| Also didn't claim benefit. It's potato. If there were
| some significant problem we'd have known by now.
| foerbert wrote:
| I never said it was bad either.
|
| I was specifically taking umbrage with the reasoning
| provided - X does a lot of Y in their complex thing and
| gets good results, so lots of Y can't be bad - and tried
| to be clear about that.
| nwienert wrote:
| > claim that the isolated portion will be beneficial
|
| > gets good results
|
| You claim I said it's "good", but I said "can't be bad"
| _in relation to a short term allergy diet_. Your super
| pedantic bone you picked is based on exaggerating what I
| said twice and generalizing it out of context, which is
| funny coming from a pedant.
| treeman79 wrote:
| Yea. Never eat only one food for extended periods.
|
| This was a pure desperation move.
| nwienert wrote:
| It's actually common for immune/allergy issues, I did
| rice once on a doctors recommendation, worked fine.
| [deleted]
| treeman79 wrote:
| I never feel bad afterwards. It's a safe food for me. Plus
| it's filling.
| UncleOxidant wrote:
| Not the OP, but I'm going to guess that it's because sweet
| potatoes have pretty high nutritional content such that you
| can survive by only eating them for some time without
| developing deficiencies.
| treeman79 wrote:
| It's because it was literally the only food I knew that
| didn't bother me. Look at AIP diet for a better plan. But
| this was something I could follow when I was barely able
| to get out of bed.
|
| Boiled or microwaved. Always plain.
|
| I Felt a lot better afterwards.
| hanniabu wrote:
| FYI the AIP diet says to avoid vegetables in the
| nightshade family, which includes potatoes.
| UncleOxidant wrote:
| Sweet potatoes are not in the nightshade family.
| andreygrehov wrote:
| Not the first time I read about sweet potatoes on HN. Could
| you describe a little more on that front, eg what was your
| breakfast/lunch/dinner like during that month?
| treeman79 wrote:
| Microwaved or boiled. Plain. 2 a day. It was very boring.
| andy_ppp wrote:
| Sjogrens sounds horrendous! I'm glad you found some way to
| managing the symptoms, even if quite extreme. Has it been
| well managed since a return to a more normal diet, have you
| considered OMAD instead?
| treeman79 wrote:
| In general The longer I can hold off eating the better I do
| during the day. At least until I collapse. If I have
| regular food I feel flushed and feverish. Often triggering
| migraines. Basically my ability to function is near zero.
|
| Non trigger foods, ie. sweet potatoes allow me to avoid
| such problems.
|
| As to well managed. No, not really. I was physically doing
| much better when taking proper meds, (plaqunial)
|
| However side effects were to much.
| ryandvm wrote:
| My experience with a 3 day fast was that for the first day it
| was no problem. I can generally ignore hunger pretty easily.
| But days 2 and 3 were just a brutal lack of energy. I have
| never felt so depleted as when I was finishing my 3-day fast.
| Other than that, I didn't really experience any positive
| benefits.
| vimy wrote:
| Probably had more to do with electrolytes being depleted than
| hunger.
| heavyset_go wrote:
| Fasting also has a significant impact on the immune system,
| causing it to downregulate certain immune cells and responses,
| and to upregulate others.
|
| The results you feel might not be from the lack of inflammation
| from food, but from a change in immune responses, some of which
| can reduce inflammation and other bad feelings.
| legerdemain wrote:
| Inflammation is a basic life process, not a reaction to the
| food you eat. Inflammation plays an active part in wound-
| healing. Teething in infants has an inflammatory component.
| Systemic inflammation is ubiquitous during and following
| parturition in mammals. There is inflammation everywhere, it's
| as generic a word as "oxidation" and "metabolism."
| andy_ppp wrote:
| No-one is say _all_ inflammation is bad, just that constantly
| being in that state is really bad for you...
| nabla9 wrote:
| Inflammation is immune system response. Nothing to do with
| metabolism or oxidation.
| keymone wrote:
| You're wrong, insulin is inflammatory hormone, google it.
| nabla9 wrote:
| Googling ...
|
| Result: Insulin is anti-inflammatory and
| antiatherosclerotic hormone.
| keymone wrote:
| Ok, this is dumb, I meant to say there is connection
| between insulin and inflammatory processes (hence it is
| definitely connected to metabolism), insulin itself has
| anti-inflammatory effect, but insulin resistance and
| chronic inflammation are also linked. And I managed to
| say something completely opposite. Sorry.
| tartoran wrote:
| That's like saying cell division is a basic life process and
| nothing can stop this process from going haywire, but what
| about cancer. It is widely believed that inflammation levels
| spike for certain foods and the overall effect on the body is
| not optimal to say the least.
| JMTQp8lwXL wrote:
| There's a middle ground: some is probably beneficial in
| certain cases, but you can have too much of a good thing--
| then it's an issue.
| tartoran wrote:
| Yes, that is obvious. It is a natural process as much as
| apoptosis or cell suicide is.
| atat7024 wrote:
| Every time you eat, the body enters a state of heightened
| inflammation. This is well documented. Please don't spread
| disinformation.
| andy_ppp wrote:
| https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/01/170116121912.
| h... For example suggests this is true...
| atat7024 wrote:
| Yeah, honestly this is no different than real life.
|
| People don't want to be told that alcohol, sugar, too
| many calories, etc inflames the hell out of the body. So
| be it.
|
| Wait for your own wakeup call. I hope it never comes.
| [deleted]
| voxl wrote:
| Two things:
|
| First, if this is as well documented as you say then you
| should provide such documentation as you seem to think it
| should be at the finger tips of others.
|
| Second, your comment doesn't actually counter the main
| point of what you are responding to. The point is that what
| "inflammation" means is too general. Even if it is true
| that you enter a "heightened inflammation" state when
| eating, that doesn't discredit the idea that inflammation
| as a category is being overloaded.
| darkteflon wrote:
| Pseudoscience schooling science.
| andy_ppp wrote:
| No, please do some research, even a cursory Google leads
| to many papers on this.
| rsync wrote:
| "Inflammation is a basic life process, not a reaction to the
| food you eat. Inflammation plays an active part in wound-
| healing. Teething in infants has an inflammatory component.
| Systemic inflammation is ubiquitous during and following
| parturition in mammals. There is inflammation everywhere,
| it's as generic a word as "oxidation" and "metabolism.""
|
| Everything you have said is true.
|
| What I think you are missing is that there is _both_ a per-
| calorie inflammation cost for all food inputs _and_ a minimum
| inflammatory startup cost _just to metabolize at all_.
|
| More simply: 1000 calories spread across two meals will
| generate more inflammation than 1000 calories in a single
| meal.
|
| There are two analogies that I think are useful when thinking
| about this:
|
| First, introducing food inputs appears to be _an interrupt_
| for most other bodily activities - even very essential ones
| like sleep and reproduction, etc. You might consider how many
| hours each day your body spends _not digesting_. It doesn 't
| take much to increase that by 50% or more...
|
| Second, electric motors like pumps and fans have failures
| ("deaths") that are much more accurately predicted by number
| of start-stop cycles than by the number of hours run. Startup
| is expensive for these devices and I suspect that startup is
| expensive for our food metabolism as well.
| andy_ppp wrote:
| Yes, also we know cell machinery operates in a different
| mode when the body is without fuel, it's moves in a
| repair/conserve mode that includes preferential autophagy
| of damaged cells. It makes sense, eating used to be
| _extremely_ dangerous so the body mounts an immune response
| including inflammation every time.
| jk7tarYZAQNpTQa wrote:
| > eating used to be extremely dangerous
|
| You're talking a very long time ago. Shouldn't that be
| already disregarded from an evolutionary POV?
| MrBuddyCasino wrote:
| > You're talking a very long time ago.
|
| We've made strong progress in food security in the last
| 100-200 years, not sure about before that. I suspect
| hunter/gatherers had it actually better than farmers.
| What time spans are you talking about?
| jk7tarYZAQNpTQa wrote:
| > What time spans are you talking about?
|
| I would assume (from ignorance) than knowledge about food
| security is older than us as a species. And by food
| security I mean "don't eat plant A", or "don't eat plant
| B raw, put it first on the fire or it will make you sick"
| etc.
| kossTKR wrote:
| Same here. It's the closest thing to an actual wonder drug i
| have ever come across.
|
| My skin clears up, brainfog disappears, the white in my eyes
| get brighter, etc.
|
| After reading a bit i have come to the same conclusion - if
| your diet is already extremely clean / bland, maybe you won't
| get the same effect, but for most people that eats lots of
| different foods, processed stuff, fast food, alcohol, harsh
| additives, fried/burned food etc. on occasion then i think you
| really need to give yourself a break at least once a month. For
| a minimum of 48 hours.
| wsinks wrote:
| I'm here for it. You're saying that a water only fast for
| approximately 48 hours once every full moon helps out?
|
| I've done some intermittent fasting before (I think that's
| where you make sure you don't eat after 18:00 and only start
| at 9:00)
| kossTKR wrote:
| Yes, exactly how long probably depends on a lot of factors,
| but the benefits really starts for me after 30+ hours.
|
| Drinking water with potassium + magnesium + salt also helps
| a lot, to replenish electrolytes, but some people can
| manage without. Some people can continue workouts, others
| continue for 7+ days. It's all about experimentation.
|
| Atm. i start each week fasting and just fast for as long as
| it feels ok. Often 1-3 days.
|
| I would recommend 2 fasts per month 36-48 hours, and with
| electrolyte water for newcomers.
|
| Off course starting weight, activity level etc. is also
| important factors, i'm personally trying to lose some
| "corona weight" atm.
| DoreenMichele wrote:
| I really appreciate some of the detailed comments here,
| but I will caution people that if you have a serious
| medical condition you may find fasting is a lot harder on
| you than the above suggests it will be.
|
| If it benefits you, it may get easier over time. I have a
| serious medical condition. I used to routinely throw up
| when I was even just underfed for one day.
|
| It now takes longer than one day for me to start having
| strong reactions. Fasting and semi-fasting have been
| beneficial for my condition, but it was amazingly hard on
| me for a really long time and is still not easy.
|
| I tend to semi-fast for somewhere between one and two
| days (often around 36 hours) most months. I've done
| longer -- up to a week -- but two per month for a
| newcomer sounds like a lot to me and I assume that's
| because of how hard it is on me.
|
| So YMMV and probably will.
| NotSammyHagar wrote:
| Come on, don't use the word clean with regards to diet. It's
| a bs and meaningless word that specifies nothing. Is it no
| sugar, no salt, no meat, no gc organisms, no alcohol no
| processed, low carb, high carb? Clean is a word that suggests
| Instagram influencers. Clean does not mean bland or not
| bland, whole foods or not. It's a meaningless word like good,
| healthy, natural.
| jk7tarYZAQNpTQa wrote:
| > It's a bs and meaningless word that specifies nothing
|
| It's neither bs nor meaningless. It intuitively describes a
| good diet if you have a basic knowledge of food and diet.
| It basically means "what is good for you". What would you
| describe as "clean", deep fried butter or broccoli sprouts?
| See how it's intuitive?
| shawnz wrote:
| "what is good for you" is a completely tautological way
| of defining "a good diet". How can you say you are not
| just reinforcing your own presuppositions?
|
| The only intuitive difference I see in those scenarios is
| that one has less calories and less fat (which are
| obviously both essential components of any diet).
| kbaker wrote:
| I mean, they did qualify it in the same sentence with
| "different foods, processed stuff, fast food, alcohol,
| harsh additives, fried/burned food etc. on occasion".
|
| Although I don't know any diet that would be "clean"
| compared with a water fast...
| PartiallyTyped wrote:
| > Although I don't know any diet that would be "clean"
| compared with a water fast...
|
| Vegan perhaps?
| imwillofficial wrote:
| Subjective meaning is not no meaning. Good absolutely has a
| meaning. So does healthy, as does natural.
|
| Your lack of understanding of the context of use, and
| underlying meaning, is nobody's problem but your own.
|
| Perhaps you should have asked what He meant by clean,
| because clearly you don't understand.
| NotSammyHagar wrote:
| what does clean mean to you then? Everything we consume
| has been modified from the original. Apples, wheat,
| tomatoes, corn - everything we eat has been significantly
| modified from what it was 10,000 years ago. Early farmers
| modified potatoes and everything else to grow more
| calories by genetic manipulation - like planting the ones
| that grow faster or bigger. Nothing and I mean nothing is
| like it was before mankind started eating it. We put
| selective breeding pressure on cows by breeding the ones
| we grow. I can make up a definition of clean but everyone
| has a sense of it themselves. Whole foods that are not
| significantly modified seems reasonable. But modified
| from what?
|
| https://www.primalorganicmiami.com/eat-clean-miami/ As
| this website says "There is not a strict definition for
| "eating clean". I still assert clean eating is
| meaningless.
|
| I'm not against healthy eating. But "healthy eating" or
| "clean foods" don't have definitions.
| imwillofficial wrote:
| ::woosh::
| imwillofficial wrote:
| Asking somebody to clarify what they mean who is using a
| vague phrase is useful. Telling them to stop using a
| phrase that you personally don't understand is not
| useful.
|
| Think of it this way, there may not be a nailed down
| definition of "clean" or healthy" eating. However, it
| gets you in a "range of uncertainty"
|
| Is McDonalds clean? No. Is Pizza clean? Nope. Is brown
| rice clean? Maybe. I should ask what they mean by their
| usage of clean.
|
| Have I made my point a little bitter? I view usage of
| vague terms like that not as useless, but as "gets you
| close to the target without getting lost in the weeds."
|
| Hope this helps.
| kossTKR wrote:
| That's definately not true, also what's up with the hostile
| tone?
|
| "Clean" is pretty well understood as what's left after you
| finish an elimination diet.
|
| As i just described it can be different for different
| people but in general, super high fat, super high
| carbohydrate, meals that are too large or too frequent, too
| much alcohol, lots of additives, lots of candy or cake, too
| many heavy metals from fish, too much fried food, too much
| low quality processed foods including cheap oils that has
| gone semi rancid, corn syrup, various carcinogens are all
| agreed upon across various a large spectrum of diets from
| Vegan to Paleo including nutrition research.
|
| It probably also depends on ones own gut flora.
|
| Pausing eating or just eating a pretty bland diet without
| above "luxuries" and you definitely get less of these
| things, that's partly why fasting works for a lot of
| people.
| UncleOxidant wrote:
| If I could make it past the first 24 hours of fasting I could
| probably go further, but I get really bad headaches when
| fasting and usually give up somewhere close to 24 hours. I
| hear that if I were to push through for a few more hours that
| the headache would clear up, but haven't been able to do that
| yet.
| fao_ wrote:
| This doesn't tell us anything, and drinking water alone
| isn't enough. How much and how often did you drink water,
| and consume salt or rehydration salts. The latter is just
| as important as the former in keeping your body
| functioning. If you experience significant salt loss, you
| will get a headache as your body tries to maintain
| homeostasis. This is exactly one of the reasons for the
| headache part of a hangover, and if you adequately
| replenish your water and electrolytes, you will be vastly
| less likely to get one.
| rorykoehler wrote:
| The headaches could be due to electrolyte imbalance. Are
| you taking 4g potassium-citrate and 300mg magnesium-citrate
| a day when you fast? If not that could solve your
| headaches.
| moneywoes wrote:
| Is there any science behind it? Anecdotally I notice the same
| things especially with my skin CL earning up.
| agumonkey wrote:
| I cut antidepressant but I know how brain chemistry feels now.
| While I was doing the "one meal a day thing", whenever I felt
| hunger, a few minutes after my brain felt a bit like when I
| used pills. It's a very shallow anecdata but I can't help but
| to think about importance of the gut-brain axis.
| sparrc wrote:
| It's always strange to me how certain studies seem to gain so
| many upvotes on hackernews....a few thoughts:
|
| 1. This is a single study published in 2015, what does the wider
| literature say? Any dieticians or clinicians recommending
| anything from this?
|
| 2. The journal is EBioMedicine, which is not nothing but not
| exactly pre-eminent either.
|
| 3. This seems like just a common sense conclusion: "In Cox
| proportional hazard models, inflammation predicted all-cause
| mortality". So...people who die have inflammation? Wouldn't that
| be expected that people who are dieing are likely experiencing
| significant inflammation of at least one organ of their body?
|
| 4. In short, the conclusion of this paper seems like essentially
| "people who are dying are likely to die". Am I missing something
| here?
| coldtea wrote:
| > _1. This is a single study published in 2015, what does the
| wider literature say? Any dieticians or clinicians recommending
| anything from this?_
|
| Dieticians and clinicians seem to say all kinds of
| contradicting things all the time, for half a century...
| BurningFrog wrote:
| Outside of physics, a single study with a surprising result is
| usually wrong.
| Robotbeat wrote:
| Even in physics...
| johnisgood wrote:
| I suppose emphasis is on this: "telomere length was not a
| predictor of successful ageing".
| sparrc wrote:
| yet everyone in the comments is sounding off as if this
| scientifically proves their random anecdotes about fasting
| andy_ppp wrote:
| What's wrong with fasting, isn't it likely to increase life
| expectancy. I certainly feel better from this attempt at
| Ramadan (not religious just interested to try it as flat
| mate is Syrian). What evidence do you have that fasting ->
| less inflammation -> better ageing is wrong?
| f6v wrote:
| > What evidence do you have that fasting -> less
| inflammation -> better ageing is wrong?
|
| It's wrong to frame the question as you did. The evidence
| should be provided to prove something, not disprove it.
| Is there enough evidence that fasting ultimately leads to
| better aging? If so, for which groups of people? Is there
| any underlying condition that negates the effect? That's
| how science work, not the other way around.
| Out_of_Characte wrote:
| >Is there enough evidence that fasting ultimately leads
| to better aging?
|
| There never is any evidence than anything leads to better
| aging because longevity studies are notoriously
| expensive, hard to do, and prone to be inconclusive. like
| those diet studies that pinhole certain foods like chili
| peppers which supposedly reduce vascular disease.
|
| https://newsroom.heart.org/news/people-who-eat-chili-
| pepper-...
|
| "eating chili pepper has an anti-inflammatory,
| antioxidant, anticancer and blood-glucose regulating
| effect" Similar things have been said for fasting. But
| just like people who eat chili peppers in these studies,
| they differ from the normal population, most likely in
| more ways than just consuming chili peppers. even though
| there is significant consensus, like this article also
| affirms, that reducing inflammation might help you live
| longer.
|
| You could test the theory more conclusively if you had
| 100.000 people participating in fasting over entire
| generations but you'd also have to account for changes in
| their diet as response to such insane study. I bet
| everyone would think longer and harder over shoving high-
| sugar foods in their mouths after explicitly consuming
| nothing for a period of time.
| andy_ppp wrote:
| I guess we will see who is right once the studies are
| done. There is definitely proof that fasting reduces
| inflammation, if reducing inflammation helps with ageing
| is being worked on by people like David Sinclair at
| Harvard and others.
| loopz wrote:
| Fasting is good when following recommendations. But
| people in West are very ignorant about the practice
| still. It's natural to be sceptical about foreign
| practices, until they become medicine.
| DoreenMichele wrote:
| It looks like it is actually a meta-analysis: A study of
| several other studies, which has good points and pitfalls.
|
| _we combined community-based prospective cohorts: Tokyo Oldest
| Old Survey on Total Health (TOOTH), Tokyo Centenarians Study
| (TCS) and Japanese Semi-Supercentenarians Study (JSS)
| comprising 1554 individuals including 684 centenarians and
| (semi-)supercentenarians, 167 pairs of centenarian offspring
| and spouses, and 536 community-living very old (85 to 99
| years)._
|
| One of the good points is that it tends to include data from a
| great many more people than most studies can include. One of
| the pitfalls is that it is challenging to combine data from
| multiple studies because they probably used different
| methodologies, were measuring different things, etc and this
| puts a lot of noise in the data and cleaning the data to get
| something useful and meaningful can be quite hard.
|
| Meta studies can be a case of "garbage in, garbage out." But
| when they are done well, they can roll up a whole lot of
| information together to draw conclusions we simply don't have
| the resources to meaningfully study some other way.
| [deleted]
| jader201 wrote:
| I think you're overthinking it.
|
| Certain studies gain so many upvotes on HN because they
| generate interesting discussion, and may be worth storing in
| our favorites for sharing and/or future reference.
|
| I almost always upvote articles when there is interesting
| discussion (or the potential for interesting discussion)
| related to the article. I very rarely (but do sometimes) upvote
| articles solely based on the content of the articles
| themselves.
|
| Or rather, I'm much more interested in a collection of people's
| thoughts vs. a single person's thoughts.
| dheera wrote:
| On the other hand, isn't it a peer-reviewed journal? If we
| have to do the legwork of going around asking what other
| clinicians think of it, it has failed at its mission as a
| peer-reviewed journal.
| coldtea wrote:
| > _it has failed at its mission as a peer-reviewed journal_
|
| Peer-reviewed just means:
|
| (a) a bunch of guys had a cursory look at the research,
| which they might or might not be able to follow (even basic
| math), and left some hasty criticism on low hanging fruits
| (or the personal pet peeves they always mention) to pretend
| they thoroughly read it, and accepted it
|
| (b) Some scholar friends accepted this as a favor to other
| academic friends, who will backrub them when they submit
| their own research, and help each other pad their paper
| counts
|
| And meta-analysis means:
|
| (c) Let's take 80 crap papers, study them as if they're
| relevant, and get some statistical takeways...
| Retric wrote:
| Peer review only is the initial smell test, and don't mean
| it's actually true. Fraud for example can often pass peer
| review just fine. That said, it does catch errors and
| rejects a lot of junk which is why it's considered
| important.
| adamjb wrote:
| You have a weird view of academia
| refurb wrote:
| No, peer review is "there doesn't seem to be an major
| errors and the thinking is reasonable"
| [deleted]
| m463 wrote:
| All the things I've listened to regarding health an longevity
| have a recurring theme - inflammation happens a lot in modern
| life - and it decreases your lifespan.
|
| I think type 2 diabetes is basically an inflammatory disease.
| More and more people are "pre-diabetes", which is basically
| lifestyle moving them towards type 2 diabetes.
| tittenfick wrote:
| But inflammation is just the body's natural respond to
| disease. Claiming inflammation hurts you is like saying wet
| streets cause rain.
| m463 wrote:
| It might also be the body's natural response to a poor
| diet, or carrying too much weight.
| tittenfick wrote:
| Yes, you're more vulnerable to disease when you are
| living an unhealthy lifestyle. Shocker.
| samus wrote:
| Please define "unhealthy". This is a higly ambiguous
| term, and its definition differs a lot between cultures
| and across time, therefore it is far from obvious what
| living an unhealthy lifestyle means.
| samus wrote:
| This is slightly incorrect, because inflammation is not
| only triggered by "diseases". Inflammation indeed hurts the
| body. Some of the weapons it deploys, for example
| Neutrophil extracellular traps (basically, playing Spider
| Man with webs of DNA) make subsequent cadiovascular disease
| more likely. Others are just generally bad for the body or
| uncomfortable (fever, ratches, ulcers).
|
| Chronic systemic inflammation is known to play a role in
| the development and progression of coronary heart disease
| and diabetes, and accelerate the transformation of the
| immune system into an aged state, which makes it more
| likely to develop immune system disregulations such as
| autoimmune diseases, and to cause cytokine storms when
| exposed to agents such a N1H1, Epstein-Barr or Covid.
|
| The immune system consists of many moving parts
| coordinating each other via the exchange of signalling
| molecules, which results in a large distributed system with
| lots of unintuitive emergent behaviors. We are only just
| starting to understand what effects our everyday behavior
| has on the immune system, and what happens to it when we
| age.
| Broken_Hippo wrote:
| Inflammation can be good or bad.
|
| You really don't want a section of a nerve to be inflamed
| because the body is attacking the coating, for example. You
| do, however, want the skin surrounding the scratch on your
| leg to have some inflammation to help close the cut.
|
| None of this means you should regularly take an anti-
| inflammatory drug nor does it mean that an "anti-
| inflammatory" diet or other preventative measures will
| help, either. I view some of this as the latest pseudo-
| science, at least in the hands of most folks.
| asadkn wrote:
| Most people talk food when inflammation is mentioned. But let's
| not forget, arguably, an even bigger contributor: stress - mental
| or physical, say via a chronic illness.
|
| Relevant:
| https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5476783/#s2titl...
| f6v wrote:
| We're just scratching the surface there. So many things can go
| wrong with the immune system that lead to inflammation.
| andreygrehov wrote:
| Curious - are there legitimate ways to measure stress?
| sradman wrote:
| Heart Rate Variability (HRV), a relatively new feature in
| wearables with optical heart rate monitors, is a good proxy
| for stress. Some years ago, IBM did a study that found that
| HRV in newborns served as an early warning system of illness.
| Athletes have long used this measure to determine when off
| days are needed.
| bregma wrote:
| Stress is measured in metric units of "handwaves." One
| handwave ()is 1 angst (a) per second.
| koolba wrote:
| You could count the amount of hair loss or lack thereof. I
| bet hours of nightly REM sleep would be inversely correlated
| as well.
| raducu wrote:
| I have terrible sleep, but my hours of REM sleep are fine.
|
| It's my deep sleep that's toast; also I get to the REM
| stage too quickly, I think it's supposed to be a sign of
| depression.
|
| So it's a bit more complicated.
| bbarnett wrote:
| There is nothing wrong with hair loss, it is perfectly
| natural, even when young and it doesn't mean you are
| getting old, not even a little bit, it even can look good,
| OK?
| koolba wrote:
| I never said it's not natural or that there's anything
| wrong with it. It's known to be associated with stress so
| barring other known factors, if you suddenly start losing
| your hair then stress could be a cause. In contrast to
| long term loss, short term loss from stress tends to be
| reversible if it's caught early enough.
| thatcat wrote:
| only short term via cortisol, long term burnout is as
| mysterious as it is destructive
| raducu wrote:
| I guess I'll check it out.
|
| I'm 37 and I think my room started having the old person
| smell.
| hobofan wrote:
| That might also be something less dramatic. After a year
| of mostly staying at home, I had the same feeling, but in
| the end I think it was mostly stank from some of the more
| extreme diets I had in recent times. Now that the weather
| allows for full days of ventilation again (combined with
| baking soda) that smell was pretty quickly gone.
| throwaway_isms wrote:
| cortisol levels can be tested
| gadf wrote:
| Take aspirin daily forever, if your stomach hurts, stop. Start
| again.
| pengaru wrote:
| https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-heart-
| aspirin/with...
|
| https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052748704511304575075.
| ..
|
| https://www.theguardian.com/society/2020/aug/03/painkillers-.
| ..
|
| https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/18/health/aspirin-
| health.htm...
|
| https://www.npr.org/sections/health-
| shots/2018/09/16/6474154...
| gogopuppygogo wrote:
| CBD is great at helping alleviate inflammation in most people.
| f6v wrote:
| Was there a study?
| gogopuppygogo wrote:
| https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31881765/
| f6v wrote:
| I skimmed through that review and it mostly references
| mice and rats, as well as cell models. There is a huge
| difference between that and "in most people". In fact,
| you'd need a lot studies in actual people(not cell
| models) of different ages and and conditions to say it
| works.
| virtuallynathan wrote:
| The mechanism may be via the gut, stress increases intestinal
| permeability.
| briefcomment wrote:
| Don't forget environmental factors.
| synthmeat wrote:
| Serendipitously, this popped up for me right as I was reading
| this thread https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QezLxFuBxvM
| mrwaffle wrote:
| hi, i'm a just stupid waffle. can someone give me the TLDR of
| this [nearly] impossible to understand piece of writing?
| mattowen_uk wrote:
| From what I understand, is that if your body is quite good at
| fighting infection (and thus creates inflammation) you'll live
| longer.
|
| Seems a bit obvious to me, but what do I know? I'm not an
| academic scientist...
| jobigoud wrote:
| It's the other way around. Their finding is that lower levels
| of inflammation correlates with survival, capability and
| cognition in centenarians.
| mattowen_uk wrote:
| Ahhh. Thanks!
| pazimzadeh wrote:
| > We conclude that inflammation is an important malleable
| driver of ageing up to extreme old age in humans
| kgin wrote:
| Epigenetic clocks measuring methylation sites across DNA are
| currently the most accurate way to measure aging
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epigenetic_clock
|
| What's more, it seems that it is possible to reset the epigenetic
| of cells to their youthful state and reverse actual the
| biological age of those cells. They don't just "measure younger",
| they function as they did when they were younger.
| https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-020-2975-4
| jaygernaught wrote:
| interesting, what are your thoughts on modifying our
| epigenetics via crisper to pulse Yamanaka factors? also what
| ever happened to that CEO who gave her immune system a boost
| with stem cells?
| perl4ever wrote:
| >currently the most accurate way to measure aging
|
| I don't understand what people mean by statements like this.
| Per the Wiki page, they found something that on average is
| highly correlated to chronological age.
|
| But in individual cases, it may be off a little or a lot. What
| tells you this is meaningful information and not random noise?
| What is the reference point for the "real" age that is not
| chronological age?
| fao_ wrote:
| > But in individual cases, it may be off a little or a lot.
| What tells you this is meaningful information and not random
| noise?
|
| Because it was more accurate than other data sources we've
| tried
| perl4ever wrote:
| It appears to me to be "more accurate" because they have
| defined the discrepancies as more accurate. Why not just
| define them as _inaccuracy_?
| chub500 wrote:
| I just watched an interesting Veritasium on this aspect of
| aging: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QRt7LjqJ45k
| legerdemain wrote:
| It is rapidly becoming clear that inflammation drives many
| processes of disease and ageing. Many people are turning to anti-
| inflammatory diets rich in fruits like blueberries, fish with
| Omega Acids and turmeric. For example, there are many yoga
| practitioners in India who have extreme old age and great health
| that people worldwide can all benefit from listening to, like
| Baba Ramdev.
| [deleted]
| cjmaria wrote:
| I imagine you did not mean to imply that Baba Ramdev is of
| extreme old age, it seems he's only 55?
| alecco wrote:
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ramdev#Claimed_cure_for_COVID-...
| waihtis wrote:
| If there's one thing that has become apparent during COVID,
| it's that there is great reason to be skeptical of "official
| government guidelines" of in situations like COVID (acutely
| emerging and constantly changing scenario.)
|
| They simply can't process information fast enough to make
| well informed statements.
|
| Now I don't have an opinion on ayurvedic medicine and it's
| legitimacy but something being "banned by the government"
| alone means nothing today.
| loopz wrote:
| Traditional auyrveda and yoga is great. Cult leaders and
| wondercures aren't.
| waihtis wrote:
| So if something legitimate is being promoted by a "cult
| leader", it makes it illegitimate?
| ibigb wrote:
| I found this interview very germane to the subject of extra
| inflammation from the diet and the newly discovered cellular
| mechanisms for turning it off. Some of the latest research from a
| few years ago. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXm28_2ctpU "23
| Years in the Zone: Journalist and Author Gary Taubes Interviews
| Dr. Barry Sears"
| lawwantsin17 wrote:
| They really need a more nuanced word than inflamation, since
| there are no flames involved, just an immune system and chronic
| infection.
| jbritton wrote:
| How do you measure inflammation?
| legerdemain wrote:
| Serum concentration of C-reactive protein and other molecular
| markers of ongoing inflammation processes.
| NotSammyHagar wrote:
| You made a lot of good comments on this article, do you have
| a background in nutrition?
| nabla9 wrote:
| He has made horrible comments like
|
| > There is inflammation everywhere, it's as generic a word
| as "oxidation" and "metabolism."
|
| He is probably googling for answers and making it up as he
| goes.
| fsflover wrote:
| Nice try, NSA.
| atat7024 wrote:
| Look at it, feel its affects.
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