[HN Gopher] Why most non-fiction authors don't make any money
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Why most non-fiction authors don't make any money
Author : rjyoungling
Score : 80 points
Date : 2021-04-16 10:00 UTC (1 days ago)
(HTM) web link (writeusefulbooks.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (writeusefulbooks.com)
| 07121941 wrote:
| Fantastic advice. Now all I've got to do is write
| crecker wrote:
| Related: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26831469
| ed25519FUUU wrote:
| It seems to me that virtually everyone going into the creative
| fields (art, music, writing, acting) should enter that field
| without any expectation to make a living from it.
|
| We pay other people to do things that aren't fun for us, not the
| other way around.
| apocalypstyx wrote:
| The owners of and investors in publishing houses, movie
| studios, and music labels tend to expect something beyond
| 'making a living'. Whereas those who actually generate cultural
| phenomena (our culture, aka the shared framework of references
| that allows us to define an us) see little to nothing from work
| that is foundational to multi-billion dollar media empires. Not
| making a living means that the class of people most free to
| engage in cultural creation are those who are independently
| wealthy.
|
| 'Follow your passion' brings with it the perversity of _if you
| love it, then that should be reward enough_. Much in the way
| that doctors and nurses have been labeled as 'heroes' is used
| as a smoke screen to _not_ increase pay or alleviate working
| conditions because _you love your work_ and _can you really be
| a hero if you expect money from it?_
|
| One way or another, it seems, human society appears bent on
| perpetuating the idea that some people should generate value
| for others without compensation in regards to that value.
| ghaff wrote:
| I'm not sure why the downvotes. That's absolutely a fair
| comment. There are some cases where creative work can benefit
| your day job through visibility and related skills. (A talented
| amateur actor is probably going to be better at presentations
| for example. And being that really good presenter at your
| company's user group event every year isn't going to hurt you.)
| But it seems a good point overall. Being great on some
| instrument probably isn't going to be a great argument for why
| you should get promoted at a non-music-related position.)
| m463 wrote:
| I would also say, people make more money doing stuff that's
| hard. (and of course the bar goes up)
| ghaff wrote:
| I'd say "hard" is a necessary but not sufficient condition.
| People (individually or in the aggregate) also need to be
| willing to pay you specifically a lot of money for what you
| specifically bring to the table that, in many creative
| fields, requires being very top tier (and lucky).
|
| In the arts, the equivalent of a mid-tier developer makes
| jack squat.
| Invictus0 wrote:
| It's a bad comment because it totally misses the actual
| dynamics of the creative marketplace--that is, superstars-
| take-all. It has nothing to do with the "fun" of the work.
| The superstars in the creative industries are making 7-8
| figures and everyone else is making 4-5 figures while trying
| to become a superstar.
| ghaff wrote:
| And I would say that going into a field that requires
| hitting the jackpot to not be waiting tables as a day job
| isn't a great strategy from an expected earnings
| perspective. (Which isn't to say people shouldn't do it if
| that's their thing.)
| WalterBright wrote:
| Fortunately for me, writing compilers is fun.
| ed25519FUUU wrote:
| Doing something that's fun _and_ hard.
| btcstudente wrote:
| Must be fun!
| currymj wrote:
| how much are these numbers skewed by academic monographs? these
| are books that are basically going to be sold only to university
| libraries, which might explain why they sell <500 copies.
|
| there are many such books where no author ever expects to make
| money -- they have other incentives due to the way academia is
| organized.
| gxqoz wrote:
| My impression is that even reasonably well-selling non-fiction
| books typically do not sell a lot of copies. To make it onto a
| best-seller list you only need to sell in the tens of thousands
| of books.
| krmmalik wrote:
| I'm an author of a non-fiction book. I self-published. My book
| has a 5-star rating to date even though it was published nearly 5
| years ago. My book meets most of the criteria laid out in this
| book. I even had both a publisher and distributor approach me and
| I had plenty leverage. Despite all that, I didn't get the book
| sales I wanted nor the PR.
|
| Everyone that reads my book is surprised to hear it's not topping
| the charts or plastered everywhere my audience hangs out. My book
| beat out all the competition when it came out in terms of
| reviews.
|
| While the points in this post are valid, I don't believe they get
| to the bottom of what holds back sales.
|
| Frankly, I don't know what the answer is -- I have a vague idea
| of what it could be but I haven't had a chance to try those
| things. Perhaps if my book had been in all airport bookstores a
| few years ago, it might have taken off (no pun intended) like Tim
| Ferriss' book but who knows.
| kjksf wrote:
| Does it, though?
|
| I assume you mean "Billion Dollar Muslim: Why We Need
| Spiritually Inspired Entrepreneurs".
|
| It clearly makes mistake #3: "writing broadly about the topic
| instead of making a clear promise about what the reader will
| get out of it".
|
| What is "clear promise about what the reader will get out of
| it" in "Billion Dollar Muslim"?
|
| Frankly, based on the title I don't see why I should read it,
| even if I'm somewhat interested in entrepreneurship.
|
| "Why We Need Spiritually Inspired Entrepreneurs" never occurred
| to me as a question worth answering. Not the way "how to
| increase sales?" is a question I might be interested in knowing
| the answer to.
|
| BTW: you website has expired SSL certificate so the main source
| of promoting your book is as good as gone.
| krmmalik wrote:
| I gave up marketing the book two years ago after trying for
| nearly 3 years. SSL certificate I will check out. That must
| be recent as the site has been running fine for years.
|
| You might have a point about the promise of the book, but
| that depends on whether your muslim or not. Most muslims who
| come across it, understand the premise immediately, but
| still, you might have a point there.
| yesenadam wrote:
| > What is "clear promise about what the reader will get out
| of it" in "Billion Dollar Muslim"?
|
| Uh, it promises to explain Why We Need Spiritually Inspired
| Entrepreneurs.
|
| I don't think the book needs to appeal to _you_ to count as a
| clear promise the reader will get something out of it! You
| could object in the same way to a book called "How to Draw
| in Charcoal", how "Frankly, based on the title I don't see
| why I should read it".
| [deleted]
| UperSpaceGuru wrote:
| I just bought your book based on the post above. Maybe it's
| marketing? Your book is also aimed a small niche(I'm on your
| target market!), maybe that's it?
| krmmalik wrote:
| That's hilarious. Enjoy the book :)
|
| Marketing requires a huge budget in the VC age since you're
| competing with ever increasing ad prices. I have spent a lot
| of money on advertising regardless.
|
| One thing that has been a major sticking point for me
| however, ist hat distribution has been a huge issue. I
| wouldn't say my target market is that small. Most of the
| Middle East and Asia is quite ripe for my book but amazon
| doest operate it's self-publishing arm out there and the
| alternatives have not been that enticing.
| zrail wrote:
| > Marketing requires a huge budget in the VC age since
| you're competing with ever increasing ad prices.
|
| This is a mental trap that is super easy to fall into. The
| author of the article is writing a marketing guide.
| Marketing encompasses the entire product and go to market
| design, of which advertising is just a tiny part. Notice in
| his table of contents that advertising is only mentioned in
| one chapter very late in the book.
| kjksf wrote:
| > Marketing requires a huge budget in the VC ag
|
| And yet the free source of marketing (your twitter account)
| doesn't have a link to the book.
|
| Neither does your HN bio.
|
| Your website is broken (expired SSL certificate).
|
| As far as I can tell you don't have a single page that
| tries to sell the book. A link to amazon is a bare minimum.
|
| https://writeusefulbooks.com/ is an example of a master
| class of marketing a book. It describes what the book is
| about and why one should buy it. It established the author
| as successful writer and therefore authority on the
| subject.
|
| He also wrote an article good enough to hit HN and be a
| driver to the website. That required 0 budget.
|
| Maybe your failure at marketing are a result of you being
| bad at it, not a universal truth that you can only be
| successful with "huge budget".
| DubiousPusher wrote:
| > It's because Hemingway's Boat is broadly "about" a topic,
| whereas The War of Art promises--and delivers--an outcome.
|
| I certaintly don't know a damn thing about selling books. But I
| am an avid reader of nonfiction and this is exactly the opposite
| of how I shop for books myself.
|
| Other than the odd "how-to", I'm skeptical of any book promising
| me anything other than the author's diligent study and incisive
| distillation of a topic. I've read many books which caused my
| mind to grow and really excited me about the world but I've never
| read a book that "solved my problem". Of which, I assure you, I
| have many.
| joe_the_user wrote:
| There are so many issues in all this. I think most self-help
| and how-to-be-an-entrepreneur books target people who don't
| read much. On the one hand, it's the bigger market! on the
| other hand, they don't read much.
|
| These days, most or a large portion of books that have involve
| substance and research written by academics, who probably would
| like the books to make money but are OK with them not making
| money 'cause they still get fame and possibly academic kudos.
| Of course, there are professional researchers and writers who
| make a living publishing but they have their substance, they
| have their niche and they need only very specific advice as
| opposed to the (apparently confused) generalities of the
| article.
|
| And thing the author of this website is he seems to aim to sell
| a book about getting rich writing books and those books would
| have to be about getting rich too. It's more a multilevel
| marketing scheme - which doesn't mean someone won't rich here
| but the entire enterprise is grim and not something I'd want to
| read about - well, Barbara Ehrenreich's Bait And Switch is
| somewhat interesting. But still.
| ddorian43 wrote:
| > but I've never read a book that "solved my problem". Of
| which, I assure you, I have many.
|
| Curious of your unsolved problems.
| dd_roger wrote:
| I share your opinion (I particularily like essays; I follow
| along the arguments, think whether I agree with them or not,
| etc. but absolutely hate the "how-to" kind of books which I
| strongly associate with the hustle and self improvement culture
| that I find quite toxic.)
|
| But I agree with the author that the later kind of books seems
| much more popular with the general public, being handed
| solutions appears to be more attractive to many people that
| being encouraged to think about problems that probably aren't
| even relevant to them. And in a sense it's perfectly
| understandable, but I personally prefer the intellectual
| stimulation from a good essay over what is essentially a
| marketing speech from a professional hustler.
| gbourne wrote:
| I got a publishing contract with a larger publisher to write a
| book on Agile (10 years ago, didn't end up publishing, long
| story).
|
| I know that amazing feeling the author mentions of getting a
| "yes", while totally ignoring that at best I was going to make
| pennies. If I recall it was 10% after all publishing costs were
| paid for. However, I had a full time job, so this was for-the-
| love-of-it rather than as a real source of income.
| Multiplayer wrote:
| I wrote a few books with a major publisher, but did it largely
| for the authority that it conveyed on my work and career at the
| time.
|
| Love works too. :)
| ng12 wrote:
| So 3/4 of the tips are: write a book people want to read?
| Finnucane wrote:
| No clearly, the message is, write self-help books for wannabe
| writers.
| okareaman wrote:
| Shouldn't #5 be "not promoting your book effectively" because
| he's clearly promoting his book effectively. I think this is fine
| if fame and fortune are your goal, which is an unquestioned
| assumption for a lot of people, but there are other reasons to
| write a book, which he does not address.
| thomaslangston wrote:
| The point of the article is explaining how a goal of a living
| wage can be earned directly off nonfiction writing, in addition
| to two different reasons that are explicitly stated at the
| beginning of the article as being commonly suggested.
|
| It also explicitly is calling out methods that do not require
| fame, nor does it espouse a goal of fortune (unless you treat a
| living wage as a fortune).
| okareaman wrote:
| He does so dismissively, not treating them seriously: "you
| should therefore embrace your book's predestined doom by
| reframing it as either passion project or calling card."
| ghaff wrote:
| In fact, I strongly suspect that the vast majority of people
| who write non-fiction books are absolutely aware that the
| royalties will likely be (maybe) beer money--assuming they
| don't have expensive tastes in beer. Rather they're
| reputational. In tech, being a published author on a topic
| often separates people from the pack as consultants but it can
| also easily differentiate you if you have an externally-facing
| role (especially) at a company.
|
| Personally, I've made a relatively trivial amount of money from
| the books I've written, but I have little doubt they've been
| good investments of my time--some of which has been work time.
|
| ADDED: I'd add that "promoting your book effectively" probably
| isn't free. Most authors aren't going to get a lot of publisher
| support so now you're hiring a publicist, paying for review
| copies, paying to travel (normally) to speak at events where
| you do book signings and promote your book, etc.
| okareaman wrote:
| Researching and writing help clarify your thoughts, which
| could pay dividends in other ways. I'm retired, don't need
| the money and am told old to care about fame, but I have
| several ideas for non-fiction books I'm working on. Now that
| I think about it, his blog post presents a strong case for
| not writing a non-fiction book for money. There are other
| ways to spend your time with a better chance of making money,
| unless you're clever self-promoter that is.
|
| "A 98% drop in sales after the first year, Seventy percent of
| traditionally published titles fail to pay out a single
| dollar in royalties, Vanishingly few nonfiction books sell
| even five hundred copies"
| ghaff wrote:
| That's a great point. It's not just about I have a book.
| But that, especially if it's through a publisher (which has
| pros and cons), I have sufficient knowledge of the topic
| either acquired day-to-day or through research that I'm
| capable of laying down at least 250 pages or so of coherent
| writing on said topic. The last book I did I was definitely
| already familiar with the area but I was certainly more so
| my the time I was done.
| k__ wrote:
| Having the right publisher is probably the most important.
|
| I can recommend https://newline.co
|
| I wrote a book with them and made enough to pay my rent for over
| a year with the money I made.
| fighterpilot wrote:
| Authors have the same problem as musicians. Their work has zero
| marginal replication cost, zero distribution cost, low barriers
| to entry and they're competing for finite attention.
|
| What invariably happens then is the top 0.1 percent of output is
| duplicated and sold to hundreds of millions of customers and that
| eats up all of the attention bandwidth for that vertical. It's
| the ultimate winner take all setup.
|
| Contrast this to the prospect of running a successful restaurant
| that is fundamentally limited by geography. No matter how well it
| serves region A, region B, C, D, etc is still up for grabs. A
| franchise can try to duplicate its success, but it's much more
| costly than a successful author making endless free digital
| copies of their work.
| yesenadam wrote:
| I enjoyed this, I thought it mostly made good points, and it
| linked to other articles I will look at. Yet..
|
| I started reading a blogger who teaches how to make a successful
| blog, sells courses about it, etc. I soon realized her blog is
| just about her making money from promising to help you make money
| from your blog. A frighteningly vacuous operation. It seems a
| modern cousin to the old ad in magazines promising to reveal the
| secret to wealth for $20. When you write to the given address you
| get a letter back saying "Do as I do." It's a pyramid operation.
|
| Writing books about writing books seems similar. Selling the
| dream of high sales when you write on other topics, when their
| books are the same "making money from promising to help you make
| money" from your book seems a bit fishy, has a scammy element.
| It's more than a lil "Do as I do."
| Finnucane wrote:
| He doesn't seem to understand what a royalty is. He quotes
| himself saying "To compensate for their 85% share of the
| royalties, a publisher needs to sell at least 5x more copies for
| you to break even [compared to self-publishing]." As the lady on
| the tv says, that's not how any of this works. In trade
| publishing at least, the author's royalty is a percentage of the
| cover price of the book. In normal retail selling, the publisher
| gets maybe 50-55% of the cover price in revenue, out of which
| they have to pay you and also all of their costs of producing
| your book.
| 101008 wrote:
| As a publisher author of a non-fiction book with an established
| publisher, I had to stop reading after that first point because
| he is completely wrong.
| Multiplayer wrote:
| I think it makes sense. He's saying that if you get a 15%
| royalty, vs the 100% royalty minus costs of self publishing,
| you need to sell 5x more books via the publisher.
|
| It's oddly worded, but the math roughly works depending on
| your self publishing costs.
| Finnucane wrote:
| It is not oddly worded. It is wrong.
| jimnotgym wrote:
| Yes it is an error, but the underlying point is true.
|
| I also thought that, whilst it was easy to recognize the
| error, the point was still easy to understand. I think it
| is a good point, let's hope the author redrafts.
| Ronson wrote:
| I can't comment on the article but after a slow start this year,
| this HN Post has got me "reading" non-fiction audiobooks again.
|
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26206712
|
| I am a member of goodreads, it's just hard to find stuff
| sometimes and cut through the dross. Thank you pizzicato.
| SunlightEdge wrote:
| Unfortunately most writers of fiction make next to nothing too.
| Writers often are not happy writing either (unlike painters and
| video artists who seem to have a whale of a time).
|
| Sadly I toiled for 8 years on a novel (while working a day job).
| It was a massive effort.
|
| It might be hard for people to understand but I felt I had to
| write it (i.e. writers curse).
|
| I wish I had spent all that time on studying programming etc.
| Unfortunately humans are not fully rational. I actually like my
| novel. But it wasn't worth it.
|
| https://www.amazon.co.uk/Can-Get-Restart-Jack-Gowan-ebook/dp...
|
| But hey that's life. Shrug.
|
| Writers should just write for the pleasure of writing and expect
| that the majority won't make it. It's about as likely as winning
| the lottery
| jesselawson wrote:
| Hey I know you're feeling like giving up, but you have to
| realize that you've only taken the first step--and the good
| news is, it's a step that only 10% of people ever make! So
| congratulations! You published your first novel! Only 10% of
| people ever finish "that novel" they have in their head that
| they feel the urge to write. I'm proud of you!
|
| Now for the next part, which no one like's to hear: the easy
| part is over. Yep, you heard that right: getting your first
| work finished and out there was relatively easy compared to the
| mountain you have set yourself on to climb. Yes, only 10% of
| people dare climb that mountain, and here you are--among the
| 10%. Now, as you look forward, I can tell you that at every
| major step, every major obstacle, and every major setback, only
| 10% of people keep going.
|
| You might think there's a secret to this writing thing, but
| there isn't. Just like when we're hiking up a mountain, the
| only thing that matters is putting one foot in front of the
| other. That's the only way you climb. So you HAVE to get back
| in there (mentally) and keep going!
|
| You just started on an amazingly difficult and frustrating and
| beautiful journey in life. You made it to where only 10% of
| people get to--and now you want to stop the journey?
|
| My friend, your journey has only just begun.
| SunlightEdge wrote:
| Thanks for your kind words. Perhaps what you say is true. I'm
| not sure I'm qualified (ironically) to say.
|
| What I can say is that the time, the sacrifice, and then the
| crappy marketing ploys (no one tells you about that). It's
| real hard work. It's really hard when you get nothing for all
| your efforts.
|
| I know a 2nd book would be easier. But it still would take a
| lot of time. Probably 3-4 years.
|
| Potentially in... a while... I might write again. I am full
| of ideas. But honestly I'd rather build IT stuff right now.
| Programming is my new love.
|
| Don't get me wrong there is a real beauty in writing. But,
| well there is a lot to life. And I'd like to explore
| different things. There's a ton of creativity in IT.
|
| I can always start writing again when I'm 55/60. I actually
| don't think it's a young man's activity. There's no money in
| it either.
|
| But yeah, sitting in the sun during my twilight years...
| writing. Sounds great.
| [deleted]
| zrail wrote:
| The comments here are incredibly harsh. As someone who has self
| published two books, quite a lot of this resonates with me.
|
| First book addressed a timely topic but ultimately aged out very
| quickly and I got burnt out trying to keep up with updates. It
| made roughly $80,000 in lifetime sales, of which I kept 96%
| (credit card fees + hosting overhead).
|
| Second book addressed a broader niche but fell into several of
| the traps he describes and only made $3000.
|
| I will likely buy his book and try to apply it on either a
| revision of book two or something new.
| cryptica wrote:
| The real reason why most non-fiction authors don't make a profit
| is because only scam topics which sell a dream but don't add any
| real value can make any profit in our current scam economy.
|
| Self-help gurus, spiritual charlatans, snake-oil salesmen, get-
| rich-quick con men, corporate consultants, slick marketing
| experts; these are the people who are making profit in our scam
| economy.
|
| Just focus your energy on a fucking scam and you will make money
| by the boatload. You don't need a long article to tell you that.
| Just open your eyes and look around.
|
| It's not just writing which is affected; every 'intellectual'
| industry is affected; art, music, science, politics,
| technology... All the successful people are scammers. That's why
| you can't find any good content anywhere these days. The shit
| always floats to the top. The media is concentrating all our
| attention on the shit and away from the good stuff.
|
| Also, the rich people who are running the show are morons with no
| taste and 0 intellect.
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