[HN Gopher] Successful BBQ pork butt and brisket is science (2018)
___________________________________________________________________
Successful BBQ pork butt and brisket is science (2018)
Author : Tomte
Score : 229 points
Date : 2021-04-15 07:22 UTC (2 days ago)
(HTM) web link (arstechnica.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (arstechnica.com)
| manishsharan wrote:
| Please don't prosecute me for heresy but I sousvide ribs for 36
| hrs and I think the results are better.. melt in your mouth
| better. I am still working onn getting the crust but the overall
| meat is just so much better than barbecue.
| somethingtoday wrote:
| I own several Texas BBQ restaurants. We have a pitmaster but here
| are the things I know:
|
| 1. Not all beef/cattle are created equally. You must start with a
| high quality brisket. Just because it is a prime grade brisket is
| not enough. We tasted brisket from many farms and we centered on
| Creekstone Farms.
|
| 2. Not all smokers are created equally. Test the extremes
| including low-slow (12-15 hours) vs fast-high (8 hours). We found
| offset is good for low-slow, but gas powered is better for fast-
| high.
|
| 3. Not so secret: you must rest the brisket for 12 hours in a
| warmer after it is finished cooking. This gets the fat rendered
| inside, so you can get those grooves / mountains and peaks within
| the meat. This also achieves the most tender brisket.
|
| 4. Before wrapping with butcher paper, we put beef tallow on the
| brisket. This creates a juicier product for us.
|
| 5. Injecting and/or putting brisket slices in broth never worked
| for us. Instead of tasting like juicy brisket, it tasted like
| "brisket and broth".
|
| 6. We trim a lot to get a more even brisket with consistent
| height, and use trimmings for other products. Consistent height
| means your flat lean side won't dry out by the time the fatty
| point side is cooked.
| hnick wrote:
| I have little experience but on #5 I thought the consensus now
| was that 'juicy' is largely a matter of rendered fat, and water
| content doesn't really have that much to do with it.
| giantg2 wrote:
| "... putting brisket slices in broth ..."
|
| It's sad how many places still do this. I love brisket and this
| basically ruins it in my opinion.
| samstave wrote:
| I like the cut of your Jib, and would like to subscribe to your
| news letter...
|
| 1. What factors to look for when seeking "high quality brisket,
| but also...?"
|
| 2. When to use which low /v/ high
|
| 3. warmer at what temp? Tented in foil? just an oven? open
| flame/coals? or special equipment?
|
| 6. What do you do with the trim?
|
| Thanks - would love to taste yours...
| ptconroy wrote:
| A dedicated warmer makes sense for restos, but if you're a
| home cook, just put the butcher paper wrapped brisket in an
| insulated cooler and let it sit. Nothing else is required
| (except maybe some kitchen towels. It will stay warm for
| hours, improving as it rests, and it is easy to take places
| as well. As OP said, good gloves are worth it.
| somethingtoday wrote:
| Mad Scientist BBQ from Youtube is your best bet:
| https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCselvHbb5ah0sEqZrFa-7nA
|
| 1. High quality brisket to us is taste and tenderness. Taste
| is beefiness, smokiness (not too strong, but present), right
| amount of salt taste, and a good bark (here you will have
| opinions, between "soggy" bark and "crusty" bark). Tenderness
| is it must bend on the finger and you can eat it with just a
| fork.
|
| 2. For us low-slow is for offset (ie; traditional bbq pits)
| and fast-high is for gas powered (ie; Southern Pride
| Smokers). Reason is gas powered smokers create a lot of
| air/wind, thus drying the brisket faster than a traditional
| offset smoker. The verdict is that offset smokers make a
| better product (ie; because it's low-slow, which you can't do
| with gas powered smoker).
|
| 3. I believe we are warming at 160 F but don't remember.
|
| 4. We don't do tented foil, but there are lots of youtube
| videos claiming otherwise.
|
| 5. Flame/coals, don't know enough about this.
|
| 6. We don't have any special equipment other than really good
| gloves to carry hot brisket around when wrapping.
|
| 7. You can cook the trimmings separately and use them for
| sandwiches (since you don't need a clean looking slice) or
| use it in beans. You can also grind it to create products
| like sausages or burgers. See this video
| https://youtu.be/H-_ok8WGb4k?t=236, look at how thick the
| trimmings are.
| samstave wrote:
| Thank you.
|
| I am full, currently - but now my mouth is watering.
| linsomniac wrote:
| Thanks for the pointer to Mad Scientist, I've been meaning
| to watch, but the only one I've seen is the unpackaging of
| that Franklin smoker, more of a fluff piece.
|
| On the beans front, my official beans recipe is this
| whiskey bbq beans. But I like whiskey, so YMMV.
| https://grillinfools.com/blog/2015/06/11/my-spin-on-
| oklahoma...
| koolba wrote:
| I'm going to try #4 this weekend. From personal experience,
| _everything_ is better with beef tallow.
|
| How'd you end up on HN and/or how'd you end up in the BBQ game?
| 1MachineElf wrote:
| Anecdote: Last year my girlfriend recently became obsessed
| with BBQ and has been smoking brisket using technique #4 for
| the past month. It's consistently improved the brisket every
| time.
| seehafer wrote:
| #4 is rumored to be one of Aaron Franklin's secrets
| toolslive wrote:
| Yes. you make the best fries using tallow as well. That's
| what they (used to) do in Belgium.
| covidthrow wrote:
| McDonald's used to fry their fries in a 93% tallow oil
| blend until they stopped in 1990 because of hysteria over
| cholesterol in beef fat.
|
| Guess nobody considered the patties were still chock full
| of (much more) beef fat, but oh well. (Properly deep fried
| fries retain only a few grams of oil vs upwards of about
| 500% more in a single, lean McDonald's patty.)
| dkdk8283 wrote:
| Can you give me a reference of the temperature for point 3?
| dbt00 wrote:
| Assuming your brisket is done to somewhere around 200-207F.
|
| Rinse out a reasonably sized beer cooler with boiling hot
| water to warm it up, then put the wrapped brisket on a towel
| in there, and close it. It'll hold it's temperature and
| finish in there.
| ineedasername wrote:
| _I own several Texas BBQ restaurants_
|
| You, sir, are a hero. mostly for the brisket though, not any of
| the other stuff. Which brings me to your point #1: You are
| correct, but leave off an important fact: No matter the grade
| or source, if properly cooked there is not such thing as a
| _bad_ brisket. There are merely lower grades of _amazing_.
|
| My primary complaint about brisket is that somewhere around
| '07/'08 people started realizing that a properly cooked brisket
| was the most underrated piece of meat on the market. This drove
| the prices form $2-$3/lb to north of $8/lb.
| smiley1437 wrote:
| Not so much for bbq but oxtail used to be scrap meat, but the
| price is ridiculous now
| Wistar wrote:
| And, as a component in home-ground beef, irreplaceable due
| to the very high fat content.
|
| My ground burger blend is equal amounts chuck (SRF wagyu if
| available), brisket (flank if I can't get brisket) and
| oxtail (very challenging to cut all the meat off the bone
| but absolutely worth the work). I use a Kitchen Aid grinder
| attachment and grind coarse.
|
| Best burgers ever.
| schwartzworld wrote:
| Same thing happened to short rib, or flanken as my Grandma
| called it
| SaintGhurka wrote:
| And chicken wings. Once buffalo wings became popular,
| chicken wings went from scrap prices to premium.
| hinkley wrote:
| Gotta work on my bbq chicken thigh skills again this
| summer.
| creaghpatr wrote:
| Short rib prices are out of control these days
| matwood wrote:
| Same thing also happened to flank/skirt steak wrt to it
| becoming popular. I don't even buy it anymore.
| jghn wrote:
| The thing that always drove me crazy about this was that
| there wasn't a corresponding drop in prices for other cuts. I
| get the supply/demand curve driving these previously
| undesirable cuts up, but I would have thought it was a zero
| sum game.
| hinkley wrote:
| Brisket is a traditional dish for a few different ethnic
| groups as well, isn't it? For a long time I only heard of it
| in two contexts: Jewish cuisine and higher end bbq.
| crysin wrote:
| May be off topic but seeing as you're here... so I just got
| into smoking last summer and what got me really interested in
| it was watching Aaron Franklin on the Chef show. I bought some
| of his books to kind of introduce myself to the art / science
| but I'm curious where would you point people who are novices at
| BBQ and looking to build their skills?
| lamename wrote:
| The website mentioned in the article https://amazingribs.com/
| is excellent. And it will help you skip a lot of the BS/myths
| that people are exposed to when starting out, because Blonder
| and Meathead (the main host of the site) do a number of
| pretty well-controlled experiments to mythbust or test
| methods as systematically as they can.
| linsomniac wrote:
| I watched this video before I knew who Aaron Franklin was,
| about trimming brisket. "Make it aerodynamic, anything that
| sticks out is just going to burn."
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yaMgt1Altys
| tru3_power wrote:
| Check out Malcom Reed's how to bbq right on YouTube. It's
| solid.
| mylons wrote:
| Sir Malcolm is the stone cold nuts.
| dlgeek wrote:
| amazingribs.com, hands down one of the best sources online.
| ryanmarsh wrote:
| I'm no pit master but I've put in the hours and tried every
| brisket technique I can find, including smoker mods.
|
| Amazingribs is one of the worst sites for learning brisket
| cooks. It fools you with pseudo-science and big talking. If
| you want a reliable simple method that will never fail you
| then go with Aaron Franklin's system.
|
| Case in point, amazingribs recommends injecting broth.
|
| If you want to get fancier then go ahead, but most folks
| won't know the difference.
| glapworth wrote:
| I would love to get started with Smoking BBQ at home and I've
| been interested for some time. What type of BBQ would be good
| equipment to get me up and running from a beginner level? I'm
| in the UK if that helps.
| glapworth wrote:
| Thanks everyone. Great tips. I'll have a look at the
| Oaklahoma :). Here's to good BBQ
| SaintGhurka wrote:
| Brisket is very forgiving and you can get greatness out of a
| range of styles.
|
| If you want to get started tomorrow for like 100 pounds,
| search youtube for clay pot smoker.
|
| If you want to get it right the first time and you don't want
| to work hard, just buy a good quality electric smoker. Like
| the large (22 inch) Weber Smokey Mountain. The others are too
| small for whole briskets.
|
| If you want to earn your stripes as a pitmaster, buy an
| offset smoker. They're cheap, but don't cheap out. Get a
| heavy one. Someone else mentioned Oklahoma Joe's - that's my
| smoker. Prepare to spend a lot on charcoal and wood. If you
| want to throw huge bbq parties this is your best option
| because it's big enough for multiple briskets.
|
| A great option is a Big Green Egg or a knockoff. Expensive to
| buy but cheap on charcoal and wood and holds temperature all
| day.
|
| Salt and pepper rub. Oak or hickory or pecan wood. Get a good
| grilling thermometer.
|
| I've had Franklin's. You can make it just as good with any of
| the above options.
| le-mark wrote:
| You can get really awesome pork ribs by just baking them in a
| plastic baking bag in the oven at 250F for a few hours then
| finishing them on a charcoal grill with hickory chips on the
| coals and brushing on sauce. I've been eating bbq my entire
| life and all these people smoking for hours and hours
| generally end up with nasty tasting jerky. Its not hard to
| get incredible ribs, the meat itself is delicious.
| ceejayoz wrote:
| Serious Eats has a recipe for sous vide brisket that
| basically uses this approach.
| https://www.seriouseats.com/2016/08/food-lab-complete-
| guide-...
|
| I can vouch for it being very tasty.
| Jenk wrote:
| Oaklahoma Joe's Highland BBQ. It's an offset smoker BBQ which
| can also be a grill. Got one a few weeks ago and it's
| incredible. Built like a tank. 3mm cold rolled steel.
|
| I'm in the UK too.
| Wistar wrote:
| Fantastic comment. The Creekstone Farms tip alone is gold.
|
| Question: What temp is your warmer? Also, do you leave the
| brisket wrapped when it is resting in the warmer?
| enw wrote:
| I'm sorry this has nothing to do with your post, but what are
| you doing on HN?
|
| I'm always so curious when I see the sheer diversity in
| backgrounds and interests on HN, especially when not directly
| related to tech.
| graycat wrote:
| Yes, maybe there is a lesson here for the future of the Web,
| Internet, and media _content_ : Some people really like
| actual information instead of something extracted from the
| techniques of formula fiction entertainment.
|
| That is, there is an audience, so far not very well served,
| for good information.
|
| Soooo, HN can attract people who want good information even
| if they run BBQ restaurants and don't read about neural
| networks, the latest microprocessors, or the question of P
| versus NP. Sooo, we have some evidence that some of the
| audience so wants good information that they are willing to
| jump over a high fence into Techy-Land with issues of cache
| concurrency in multicore processors or distributed databases
| to get their information.
|
| Part of the future of the Internet, then, is (A) generating
| such information and (B) helping people find from all that
| information what they like.
| nbar wrote:
| I'm guessing he bought BTC at $1 and has been enjoying days
| of hazy BBQ life since
| flobosg wrote:
| It's probably uncommon, but hackers in the hospitality
| industry are not unheard of. See for example jwz and DNA
| Lounge.
| jfrunyon wrote:
| Just because someone owns a business in an industry does not
| mean they themselves work in that industry. It's quite
| possible that he is (or was) in the tech industry in addition
| to owning a restaurant...
| tbalsam wrote:
| This is really good advice. And this is just to save this
| comment for my future brisket-making dreams.
| twodave wrote:
| FYI if you click on the comment's time stamp it'll give you a
| "favorite" link you can click to save it. It's a bit non
| obvious.
| jfrunyon wrote:
| Does "Texas BBQ restaurant" describe a BBQ restaurant which is
| in Texas, or a restaurant serving Texas-style BBQ? If it's the
| latter, definitely don't trust it ;)
| [deleted]
| notsureaboutpg wrote:
| Creekstone Farms is the name I hear all the time when it comes
| to restaurants looking for high quality meat
| scapecast wrote:
| putting beef tallow on the butcher paper before wrapping has
| made the round on YouTube recently with Mad Scientist BBQ and
| also Harry Soo.
|
| In the Mad Scientist BBQ, he suggest to wrap it twice and also
| put beef tallow into the second wrap. One wrap is to get
| through the stall, and then a fresh wrap for the rest. Maybe
| that's worth an additional list item.
|
| For everybody who wants to get going with BBQ, watch these
| channels:
|
| Mad Scientist BBQ -
| https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCselvHbb5ah0sEqZrFa-7nA - just
| fantastic video production
|
| Harry Soo -
| https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC4dtbTXdvjo272b5x_mxRBw -
| Harry keeps winning 1st place in all BBQ comps he participates
| in.
|
| Texicana BBQ - https://www.youtube.com/user/MCglobalvision (he
| is Aaron Franklin's pitmaster)
| yboris wrote:
| A related read: "Against meatposting"
|
| https://heated.world/p/stop-meatposting
|
| "Meatposting is free PR for a high-polluting industry"
|
| It's like posting a photo of you filling up your gas tank and
| tagging it "Hell yeah, gas!"
| stickfigure wrote:
| Unlike gasoline, meat is delicious.
| uxcolumbo wrote:
| A follow up question on this:
|
| No Civilized Person Accepts Slavery So Why Do We Accept
| Animal Cruelty? [0]
|
| To experience that deliciousness, other sentient beings have
| to suffer and be killed for you.
|
| Most of humanity doesn't need meat anymore to survive, so why
| is it morally acceptable that this suffering is inflicted on
| other sentient beings just so we can experience some fleeting
| pleasure?
|
| Or asked in another way, is human pleasure more important
| than avoiding the suffering of these animals (plus all the
| other biosphere damage the animal factory farm industry
| causes).
|
| ---
|
| [0] Richard Dawkins answers this question:
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4SnBCPzBl0
| uxcolumbo wrote:
| To the down-voters - rather than just down voting my
| comment, why not also explain why you're down voting -
| makes for a much better debate, no?
| dgfitz wrote:
| I commend you for following your morals. I don't think
| the world, and certainly not the US, will ever stop
| eating meat. It just won't happen.
|
| As a happy carnivore I sincerely respect your opinion.
| There is no argument you can make that will change my
| eating habits.
|
| Cheers!
| uxcolumbo wrote:
| Hey - thanks for replying.
|
| There is nothing wrong with eating meat (the substance)
| itself.
|
| I used to eat meat.
|
| The issue is the cruel and destructive process of the
| factory farm industry, which supplies most of the meat
| humans consume.
|
| We are not hunter gatherers anymore, humans living in the
| 'modern world' don't need to kill non-human animals to
| survive.
|
| Now we breed, torture and kill millions and millions of
| non-human animals and in the process destroy our
| biosphere [0]
|
| So is it logical to continue this practice when we know
| it's destructive on multiple levels, i.e. on a human,
| animal and environmental level?
|
| The HN community is made up of logical thinkers, so my
| assumption is that it should be quite simple for this
| community to make this cognitive leap and see how
| irrational it is to continue to support the large scale
| meat industry.
|
| And from a humane perspective - if we can choose not to
| support cruelty - why wouldn't we?
|
| Damian Mander - ex special forces guy and founder of
| International Anti-Poaching Foundation put it best in my
| view though: https://youtu.be/BUMGBwgGYWw?t=100
|
| I'm also a big fan of Ethan Brown - founder of Beyond
| Meat. He realized people won't easily give up traditions
| and one way to shift people away from animal meat is to
| provide something that's as good or better than animal
| meat.
|
| Would you eat meat that wasn't derived from animals?
|
| ----
|
| [0] https://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2018-06-01-new-estimates-
| environme...
|
| https://www.un.org/sustainabledevelopment/blog/2019/05/na
| tur...
| yboris wrote:
| So your decision to pay into a system of severe abuse of
| animals and environmental destruction pivots on "well,
| others aren't doing anything about it"?
|
| Every individual choice matters: the market demand is
| elastic: purchasing less reduces production.
|
| Please educate yourself about the moral problems
| surrounding meat consumption, don't just say "well, I'll
| do what others are doing" - because you know, that was
| the algorithm that maintained the numerous problematic
| practices in the past (that were eventually overturned).
| dgfitz wrote:
| I don't understand how you got "I eat meat because other
| people do" out of what I said. I eat meat because I enjoy
| both cooking and eating it. If I were the only person on
| earth who ate meat, I'd still eat it.
| yboris wrote:
| You say that you don't think the US will stop eating
| meat. That seems entirely irrelevant unless you care
| about what others do.
|
| Importantly, you say "There is no argument you can make
| that will change my eating habits." which is so closed-
| minded, I don't know what to say. Are you really unable
| to fathom a single reason that could make you change your
| behavior? Are you saying you're 100% informed about the
| meat industry and thus there is no more new information
| that you could learn (since you know it all)?
|
| Are you comfortable in full honesty stating that the
| pleasure of eating meat is enough of a reason for you to
| pay money to people who _thanks to your money_ torture
| animals?
| dgfitz wrote:
| Yes.
| yboris wrote:
| The question isn't between eating meat and not eating, but
| between eating one dish, or a similarly (or perhaps slightly-
| less) tasty dish. Yet choosing the meat dish pays into an
| industry that causes an immense amount of environmental
| degradation (air, water, and land pollution; severe
| deforestation, etc) and animal abuse (torture of animals).
| Boasting that you are choosing the ethically problematic
| option is worth reflecting on (and in my opinion stopping).
|
| Your comment seems more like a troll, because I can't imagine
| an educated individual living in 2021 being so uninformed
| about what the moral issues are surrounding meat consumption,
| and because you can't seriously think "delicious" is a
| justification for eating meat, since I doubt you think "it
| feels good" is not a justification for rape.
| graycat wrote:
| BBQed pork? Okay, I'll chip in:
|
| === Qualifications
|
| From age 5 to 22, I was in Memphis. I was there again from age 30
| to 32.
|
| At ballpark 8 ounces of pork BBQ a month, that would be
|
| (1/2) * 12 * 20 = 120
|
| pounds of pork BBQ consumed.
|
| Dad often took me to the annual Winchester-Western _gun show_
| with fantastic shooting by Herb Parsons. Also featured was pork
| BBQ -- paper plates piled high with it, with coleslaw, potato
| salad, and some bread -- cooked overnight on racks over a
| temporary dug pit maybe 2 feet deep, 4 feet wide, and 50 yards
| long with smoldering wood, likely hickory.
|
| With the BBQ contest Memphis in May, Memphis has some claims to
| significant, competitive pork BBQ expertise.
|
| The Nathan Myhrvold winning efforts at Memphis in May contribute
| to the level of expertise.
|
| Now I'm in East Tennessee, another area for serious pork BBQ.
|
| And I've cooked my own versions of pork BBQ off and on for over
| 20 years.
|
| === Theory
|
| From various readings, there is a _theory_ of "low and slow"
| meat cooking including BBQ:
|
| Part of the theory is that the meat fibers themselves are always
| tender. When meat is tough, the cause is collagen. So, to make
| tough meat tender, melt the collagen, and can do that at 165 F, a
| temperature that is also commonly regarded as high enough for
| food safety.
|
| If get the meat fibers much above, say, 180 F for too long, then
| the fibers will shrink, expel their water, and become dry and
| brittle, that is, not _succulent_.
|
| Generally, 212 F for very long is too darned hot. In practice
| often can get by with cooking meat at 212 F, that is, boiling it,
| if (A) the meat is quite tender and (B) don't have the meat at
| 212 F for very long.
|
| So, my best guess is that BBQ is from cooking "low and slow", and
| the "low" is about 165-170 F, and the "slow" is several hours,
| until the meat is still juicy and quite tender, i.e.,
| _succulent_.
|
| === Most Recent Trial
|
| This HN OP is timely: On
|
| Saturday, April 3rd, 2021
|
| I bought a fresh "boneless pork butt" of 8.9 pounds, $21.72. That
| piece is also called Boston Butt. It is the shoulder of the hog.
|
| I have a _rack_ of stainless steel wires that can be adjusted to
| the shape of a _V_ and a rectangular covered _granite_ toasting
| pan
|
| 19.5 x 12.88 x 7"
|
| === Cooking
|
| So, I put the pork on the V rack in the bottom of the roaster,
| inserted a meat thermometer into the pork, put on the top of the
| roaster, and placed the whole assembly into a pre-heated 225 F
| oven.
|
| At 2.5 hours later the meat thermometer read 165 F. Then I
| reduced the oven temperature to 170 F and cooked for another 8
| hours.
|
| Then it appeared that the meat was quite tender and the fat,
| collagen, and water were in the bottom of the roasting pan.
|
| === Chopping
|
| East Tennessee pork shoulder BBQ is _pulled pork_ as mentioned in
| the OP. Here the fibers of the pork are separated via _pulling_
| with, say, two forks.
|
| In West Tennessee, e.g., Memphis when I was there, the pork is
| coarsely chopped.
|
| So, with a cooking fork and a cooking spoon, I moved the chunks
| of the pork one at a time to my cutting board and used a French
| chef's knife with a 12" long blade to coarsely chop the pork and
| used a spatula to shovel it into two covered plastic containers,
| each with 2 quarts of volume.
|
| === Yield
|
| The weight of the final BBQ was
|
| 2,205 grams
|
| and the volume, loosely packed, was about 4 quarts.
|
| The raw weight of the pork was
|
| 8.09 * 16 * 28.3495 = 3,670 grams
|
| so that the _yield_ was
|
| 100 * 2,205 / 3,670 = 60.1%
|
| which is surprisingly high.
|
| The bottom of the roasting pan had about 1.5 quarts of liquid
| with about 5 fluid ounces of fat. Chilled, the fat did not become
| solid, and the liquid did not gel.
|
| === Cost per Serving
|
| A generous _serving_ of the BBQ is 8 ounces or
|
| 8 * 28.3495 = 227 grams
|
| so that the total cooked weight of
|
| 2,205 grams
|
| has
|
| 2,205 / 227 = 9.7
|
| _servings_ for
|
| 21.72 / 9.7 = $2.24
|
| per serving.
|
| === Serving
|
| In the cooking I added no salt, pepper, _BBQ rubs_ , or other
| seasonings.
|
| For serving, I warm in a microwave oven and add some bottle BBQ
| sauce and some bottled hot sauce.
|
| === Changes
|
| (1) The boneless pork butt -- from the cutting to remove the bone
| -- had the meat falling apart in several pieces. In the future, I
| will buy only the bone-in version and cook it with the bone in.
|
| (2) The 8 hours at 170 F may be too long -- shorter cooking might
| yield meat that is just as tender but more _succulent_ , i.e.,
| more moist.
|
| (3) Generally I prefer to do pork BBQ cooking with a _picnic_
| pork shoulder. That cut is really from a front arm, has the elbow
| joint inside, and is usually sold with some of the skin still
| attached. With this cut, the meat may remain more moist as it
| melts out its collagen.
|
| === Extras
|
| I have plans to do beef stew starting, NOT with relatively tender
| and expensive beef chuck roast but, with, say, beef bottom round
| roast. And I hope to save money by stepping down from USDA Prime
| and Choice to USDA Select or Cutters and Canners.
|
| _Retired_ dairy cows might be a good source, and once I called
| around to some packing houses and asked what happens to such
| cows. The short answer was "think fast food". The offer was to
| buy boxes of 50 pounds at a time! Maybe someday I will and have
| beef stew for family and friends for months!
|
| A. Escoffier has a remark that the beef from older animals has
| better flavor. So, US fast food is getting the beef with the
| better flavor!
|
| So, right, I intend to cook the beef at 165-170 F and NEVER let
| the stewing liquid boil (as long as the beef is in that liquid --
| boiling later to reduce the volume to concentrate and strengthen
| flavors, sure).
|
| Put the pot of stew in an oven at 350 F, or 225 F? Let the meat
| "simmer"? NOT a chance! Instead, 165-170 F and NO MORE.
|
| Pork BBQ is often served with coleslaw. My _recipe_ is to shred a
| head of green cabbage and then soak the result to desired wetness
| with just bottled Ranch salad dressing.
| dev_tty01 wrote:
| Agreed except for chopping. Shudder. Pulled pork done right is
| phenomenal. We used to scrape it off the pig while it was still
| on the spit. Then the cook would run us off...
| tptacek wrote:
| Cooking meat in a pot of 212F water is boiling it, because
| water is an excellent conductor of heat. Cooking meat in a 212F
| grill is barely cooking at all, because air is not. 225-240F is
| the "low" end of "low and slow" in a smoker setup.
| graycat wrote:
| Yes. In the trial I described, I used a 225 F oven for about
| 2 1/2 hours to get the meat internal temperature to 165 F.
| Then I lowered the oven temperature to 170 F and, wonder of
| wonders, 8 hours later the internal temperature of the meat
| was, right, 170 F.
|
| I did all that in a covered roasting pan in an oven.
|
| But even on a grill, if have the internal temperature at
| 165-170 F, an air temperature on a grill of 170 F will,
| bingo, keep the meat internal temperature at 165-170 F.
| tptacek wrote:
| At the point where you're slowly drying your protein out at
| 165, you might instead consider just putting it in a
| circulator and then finishing it in smoke.
| graycat wrote:
| I cook the pork to 165 F for food safety and to melt the
| collagen, and both of those are necessary and need the
| heat. The intention is not to dry the proteins: Generally
| as soon as the collagen is melted, the pork is done and
| plenty moist -- _succulent_.
|
| Never heard of a "circulator".
|
| I have no _smoker_ or cooking source that generates smoke
| from wood products.
|
| I have no interest in entering BBQ competitions --
| Myhrvold already did that and wrote lots of documentation
| on what he did in cooking.
|
| My main goal in cooking is just food good on some balance
| of nutrition, flavor, preparation time, and cost. In
| that, for my time, etc., a pork shoulder on a rack in a
| covered _granite_ roaster in a good electric oven in a
| good kitchen stove is a good option.
|
| Sure, _elements_ of flavor include salt, pepper, vinegar,
| lemon juice, smoke, caramelization, Maillard browning,
| _umami_ , often carried by fats, etc.
|
| But to simplify things to save me time, my working
| hypothesis is that, if in the end I want good flavors
| from smoke, sugar, lemon, vinegar, apple juice, tomato,
| brown sugar, molasses, capsaicin, etc., then I will add
| those just before eating. For Malliard browning, sugar
| caramelization, the coveted _burned crisps_ , those are
| only for the external surface and, thus, just a small
| part of the total volume which to me means that, due to
| the time and effort required to get them, I can do
| without them.
|
| If I want something better than the BBQ I've been
| getting, then I will turn to other directions from
| America, France, Italy, Austria, etc.
|
| E.g., one path to a good sauce is some good beef stock
| (or just a can of Campbell's Beef Consomme), heavy cream,
| Dijon mustard, Worcestershire sauce, salt, and pepper,
| with some Mailliard browning from deglazing a pan fried
| steak with the beef stock.
|
| Astounding things can be done with good _Kirschwasser_ ,
| heavy cream, cherries, and chocolate!
|
| American cherry pie with a lard crust is tough to beat.
| Similarly for apple.
|
| My family recipe for Thanksgiving turkey with stuffing in
| the turkey is terrific: The recipe was intended to make
| lean, wild turkeys moist; on current grocery store
| domesticated turkeys the recipe is magnificent overkill!
|
| I like BBQ pork, but the notes I gave here are about a
| far as I care to go with the subject.
| FabiansMustDie wrote:
| You write _good stuff._
|
| Are you on amphetamines, or do you just have so much time
| and inclination to sit down and write all you do?
| Frankly, I am in awe at the quality of your posts.
|
| Teach me your ways. Please. What tricks to living a good,
| dignified, and alive life have you found?
|
| What do you do to stave away the soul-killingness of the
| world? How do you keep your morale up so high?
|
| Dear god, man where do you get the mental energy? Are you
| akin to Kant's 40 cups of coffee a day eccentricity?
| graycat wrote:
| All praise welcome!
|
| Illegal drugs? NEVER. Caffeine? Not anymore.
|
| Not everyone likes my writing at HN, Disqus, or anywhere
| else. I have no interest in getting paid for writing, and
| that is good because my audience would be tiny.
|
| For your other questions, early on I looked for sources
| of information I could count on and settled on math,
| physics, and parts of the rest of science. From that I
| guessed that in principle things have rational
| explanations; later I concluded that in much of life
| finding such explanations is too difficult. In
| particular, if get very far away from math and
| mathematical physics, then rational explanations get
| difficult to find.
|
| But difficult to find does not mean the explanations
| don't exist. So, knowing that there is a rational
| explanation, even if can't find it, can help filter out
| some really sick explanations as look for an effective,
| even if expedient, response.
|
| So, for another source of security, I settled on some of
| the common US business explanations of the role money: In
| practice in life in the US, if can make some money, then
| many other issues of security and rationality become less
| crucial. How to make money? There are lots of lessons
| here on HN.
|
| For a "dignified" life, I concluded that somehow there is
| a lot of junk out there, in two words, _pop culture_. So,
| I try to avoid it. We can avoid pop culture -- there is a
| lot of just terrific stuff out there, back to Newton,
| Bach, etc.
|
| A lot of really terrific, historic stuff has happened in
| just the last few decades:
|
| So, one day I heard about quasars -- the explanations
| sound about right and are astounding. It appears that the
| super massive black holes needed for quasars formed quite
| early, earlier than we can explain so far.
|
| Similarly for the 3 K background radiation -- wild stuff
| that we can see that far back.
|
| Then there was Guth's inflation -- more amazing stuff.
|
| Kolmogorov's foundation of probability and the resulting
| theorems -- astounding.
|
| Atomic clocks that can detect the effect of general
| relativity from moving a clock from the floor to a
| tabletop -- more amazing.
|
| Then we got DNA as the source of genetics -- how come we
| were so lucky to uncover that? Then how amazing it is --
| essentially all of life on earth is from just DNA; there
| are no alternatives. Amazing.
|
| Then we got the Polymerase Chain Reaction (PCR) -- again,
| how could we be so lucky?
|
| Then we got the Human Genome Project that from some
| clever cutting into pieces and the PCR mapped the whole
| human genome. And now we can do that quickly and
| routinely.
|
| So, when Covid was sequenced, one pharma firm had a
| vaccine three days later -- we've risen several levels
| above the apes.
|
| Gravitational waves? You must be kidding. Or, were until
| we detected them from colliding neutron stars, black
| holes, etc. And what could be done with an array of space
| based gravitational wave detectors is mind bending -- as
| in how could any such thing be true?
|
| Then along came digital computing. Each new machine
| looked like a step up in technology. A decade or so of
| such steps looked like a step up in civilization, _The
| Ascent of Man(kind)_ , etc. For $100 I bought an AMD
| FX-8350 processor, 64 bit addressing, 4.0 GHz standard
| clock speed, 8 cores, and about 35 times faster than all
| six of the IBM mainframes we had for general purpose use
| at IBM's Watson lab.
|
| Digital communications was at about 110 characters a
| second, but at that time some Bell Labs people were
| developing tiny solid state lasers -- amazing little
| chips. Now we can bring 1 Gbps data rates to individual
| desktops.
|
| Computing and communications may be the new steel and
| steam or better.
|
| We have a dichotomy: (1) With what we know about the
| standard model of physics, astronomy, and cosmology, it
| all looks very rational and solid, from a lab on earth to
| some electron finding a proton 13 billion years ago and
| 13 billion light years away. (2) When we get past the
| standard model of physics and the associated mathematical
| physics to human life and civilization, rationality is
| tough to find. The standard model of physics is a case of
| exquisite perfection; human life and civilization are
| fraught with irrationality, little in science,
| frustrations, massive disasters, and riddled with
| imperfections. An incongruous juxtaposition.
|
| But, we are at a special time -- where we can understand
| the physical universe via the standard model from the
| present back 13.8 billion years, back nearly to the
| beginning. Amazing.
| FabiansMustDie wrote:
| I absolutely understand.
|
| Your post was like a poem -- advertently or inadvertently
| -- singing to my soul.
|
| I can now find peace with this reminder of what must be
| done.
|
| Thank you.
| chomp wrote:
| I recommend pink butcher paper instead of tinfoil for briskets.
| Else, they come out rather like pot roast.
| donw wrote:
| And here's a bit of why: https://www.ksat.com/sa-
| live/2021/03/12/tips-from-the-pit-pi...
| jjjjoe wrote:
| It's unwaxed, unbleached, and thick. How does that help?
| Matticus_Rex wrote:
| Waxed paper or tinfoil prevents smoke from infiltrating the
| paper and almost completely stops air exchange, so going
| with an unwaxed paper allows you to get more flavor and
| slightly more exchange for optimum bark retention. You
| still want it fairly thick because you need to keep the
| humidity up inside -- humidity encourages your collagen
| (one of the main binders in the meat) to convert to
| gelatin, which is what takes your tough, connective-tissue-
| filled pieces of meat and turns them into moist, tender,
| delicious competition BBQ with a silky mouthfeel (from the
| gelatin).
| swayvil wrote:
| This works for human too. Just saying.
| patagonia wrote:
| Few people to no person here would be comfortable purchasing a
| phone knowing people were exploited or harmed in its production.
| Our ethics did not always encompass labor and human rights when
| evaluating consumer products. We are just now beginning to widen
| the scope of our ethics to include the environment. It is
| reasonable to believe that our ethics will eventually include
| other sentient creatures, that we share this earth and experience
| with. Until then, as a vegan it is just weird, and sad, to hear
| or read stuff like this. Anyhow. Just another perspective.
| splitstud wrote:
| Reasoning about ethics doesn't include locking in a value set
| for others. That's not ethics. It is coercion.
| sweetheart wrote:
| It does if you believe in some sort of objective morality.
| sweetheart wrote:
| Preach! Love to see this perspective here :)
| itisit wrote:
| > Few people to no person here would be comfortable purchasing
| a phone knowing people where exploited or harmed in its
| production.
|
| Millions of people are aware of the exploitative conditions
| endemic in smartphone factories thanks to the volume of
| reporting done on the issue over the last decade. If sales are
| any indication, said millions are quite comfortable in their
| purchasing decisions.
| 0xbadcafebee wrote:
| As a child of the south, it's a sin to do anything other than
| dutifully tend a smoker for a day. It's the difference between
| going fishing and going to the grocery store. Journey not the
| destination and all that.
| 40four wrote:
| This is an awesome article! I bought a Chargriller smoker last
| year and finally got into smoking meats. I've always loved BBQ
| and learning how to do it myself has been so fun. It's a great
| hobby to get into, I highly recommend.
| encoderer wrote:
| Y'all don't hate me, but you can make totally passable pork butt
| in a pressure cooker in about an hour. No, it would never stand
| up to smoked meat, but, _an hour_.
| gcheong wrote:
| I've done similar with sous vide the difference being of course
| much lower temps and that it's over days but it's basically
| hands off for the whole cooking time and you can get a fairly
| decent crust by smoking it for a couple hours before shredding
| it as smoke only penetrates the surface a little anyway.
|
| https://www.seriouseats.com/recipes/2016/07/sous-vide-barbec...
| hinkley wrote:
| A friend started picking the brain if her Indian coworker's
| wife on cooking, and as far as I'm aware the best "secret" she
| got out of her was that a number of traditional dishes can be
| approximated quite well in a pressure cooker. Nobody living in
| an apartment in North America has a tandoor, for instance. Or
| wants to spend all day cooking in a hot kitchen.
| HeyLaughingBoy wrote:
| Not the same thing, but if I only have an hour, I'll cut the
| pork into chunks and make carnitas. I have to believe that
| it'll taste better than pressure cooked pork.
| encoderer wrote:
| Yep, do this too, in pressure cooker + broiler. Great meal
| actually, totally delivers on carnitas.
|
| But if you shred and sauce it right that bbq pork is great
| too!
| atwebb wrote:
| Yep, I live in pork BBQ country, totally reasonable way to get
| a meal on the table. Always prefer smoke, but I'm not gonna
| turn down a ready made BBQ sandwich, they real kicker is making
| sure it is a good sauce and there's good slaw for it!
| Der_Einzige wrote:
| I remember when the instant pot got big and I got one. I gotta
| say that Pressure Cooking is such a good and underrated
| technique. Truly easy to make good quality food pretty quickly.
| Was so nice to have one for part of my time at University...
| p1necone wrote:
| Pressure cookers are magic, everyone who likes to cook should
| have one. Especially for stuff that normally takes an obscene
| amount of time to do properly like beef stock.
| stickfigure wrote:
| In fairness, there's no reason _not_ to take an obscene
| amount of time when cooking stock. Leave it on the counter
| slow cooking for 24 hours. You 're just going to put it in
| the freezer with the dozen other jars of stock you already
| have.
| dagw wrote:
| What I like about the pressure cooker is that I make stock
| as and when I need it. Do I need stock for dinner tonight?
| Just put on as much as I need of exactly the stock I want
| an hour or two before, and done.
| matwood wrote:
| No hate, just different. I cook my butts in a nat gas powered
| grill I have. Low heat on one side, butt on the other, with
| bread pans full of soaked wood chips directly on the burner.
| BBQ purists would hate me, but it taste great, works with what
| I have and is relatively easy to do.
|
| I was inspired to figure out a good way to smoke/cook BBQ on
| equipment I had from an Alton Brown Good Eats episode.
| bsharitt wrote:
| I wouldn't really compare pressure cooker pork butt to the
| smoker version, but it's great compared to the other common
| non-smoker variant, the crock pot(or slow cooker to be brand
| generic). For most meats, I don't want to go back to a slow
| cooker(except for certain sauces/marinades). The pressure
| cooker version is still tender, but retains more of a meat
| texture, rather than turning to mush as often happens with a
| slow cooker.
| rudedogg wrote:
| I've cooked probably 10 pork butts that way. Like you say, it's
| pretty good for being so quick. The pork shreds well and is
| pretty tender - you mainly just miss out on the smoky flavor
| and bark.
|
| I recently got an old Traeger smoker, and I've done one pork
| butt, and two picnic roasts on it so far. They're definitely in
| a different league, but it does take much longer.
|
| Since I happened to take a mid-cook photo of the last one I
| did: https://imgur.com/a/FYyFJ83
| [deleted]
| mypalmike wrote:
| I know it's sacrilege but I actually prefer the pressure cooker
| version.
| cmurf wrote:
| I wonder if you can pressure cook it for some fractional
| period, and then finish it in a smoker for another fractional
| period that ends up being 1/2 or less the total time of smoking
| alone, but would stand up to smoked meat.
|
| When I was a wee goat, I took immense pleasure in an oven we
| had that combined microwaving and convection baking. The
| directions on a frozen deep dish apple pie was something like
| an hour. And microwave+convection was something like 30
| minutes. And it was totally passable for a baked-only pie.
| phamilton wrote:
| I've done the opposite in a crunch. Smoke it until the stall
| and finish in the pressure cooker. Wrapped in foil vs
| pressure cooker isn't that different. You're mostly just
| steaming it at that point.
| stevehawk wrote:
| dont wrap in foil on a smoker. wrap in butcher paper
| jmb12686 wrote:
| Problem is, meat won't take on any smoke ring after a certain
| temperature (170 degrees)[1]. Thus you won't get that
| beautiful authentic smoked meat ring if you precook without
| smoke. To some, you may as well cook it in the microwave if
| it ain't got a smoke ring.
|
| [1] https://amazingribs.com/more-technique-and-science/more-
| cook...
| cm2012 wrote:
| Start in the pressure cooker, glaze, then put under the broiler
| for 10 min. It gives a nice bark.
| calkuta wrote:
| I look forward to a future where casual discussions of the
| consumption of the tormented flesh of conscious beings are not
| normal.
| dev_tty01 wrote:
| Ok, I'll take the bait. Done right there is no torment. My 1/2
| dozen cows are grass fed and have a life of blissful grazing
| and laying under the shade trees chewing their cud. They have
| one bad moment before they start the transition to the freezers
| of myself and my friends.
|
| Second, the natural (and normal) world is full of predators
| that eat meat. Consuming other animals is one of the more
| normal things we do. Certainly a lot more normal than standing
| around typing into this phone.
|
| I will certainly agree however that large scale meat processing
| needs reform in some of its practices. I won't argue that.
| seanwilson wrote:
| > Done right there is no torment. My 1/2 dozen cows are grass
| fed and have a life of blissful grazing and laying under the
| shade trees chewing their cud.
|
| What age are they killed compared to their natural lifespan?
| How do you kill them without causing any fear or pain? Do you
| dehorn, castrate or brand them? With anaesthesia? Do you keep
| mothers with their children?
|
| I'm sure their situation is better than industrial farms but
| this shouldn't be the baseline to compete with.
|
| > Second, the natural (and normal) world is full of predators
| that eat meat. Consuming other animals is one of the more
| normal things we do. Certainly a lot more normal than
| standing around typing into this phone.
|
| You could justify murder and robbery with this so this isn't
| a good yardstick of how humans should act.
| blparker wrote:
| I've unfortunately experienced that smoker's anxiety of watching
| the clock and counting backwards, which takes the fun out of it.
| After probably thousands of cooks, I've learned to give myself
| way more time than I need mainly to account for fussy pieces of
| meat, trimming taking longer than expected, etc. I also tend to
| cook more forgiving pieces of meat like pork butt. Pork butt is
| remarkable because you can spend as little or much time prepping
| it as you want, letting it rest as long as you want, and it still
| comes out great.
| ttyprintk wrote:
| AmazingRibs.com, mentioned in the article, upped my game.
| guynamedloren wrote:
| Another upvote for AmazingRibs.com and Meathead. The BBQ
| pseudoscience debunking is particularly interesting!
| bkjelden wrote:
| I own maybe a couple dozen cookbooks and Meathead, the book
| written by the owner of AmazingRibs.com, is probably my
| favorite.
|
| Both on the website and in his book, he has a real gift for
| presenting cooking information in a way that is comprehensive
| yet also very approachable and easy to understand.
| deeg wrote:
| I've been a fan of AR for years now and I use his rub and
| techniques. I've built my own temperature controller with a RPi
| so I can sleep soundly on those 24-hour cooks.
| oh_sigh wrote:
| Meathead is the real deal. I didn't give him much credit when I
| first heard about him due to my own biases(because of the looks
| of his site and the looks of him), but if you just follow what
| he says you will have perfectly smoked meats.
| somethingtoday wrote:
| 45 minutes in the microwave should do the trick
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J4tIPFD7W3Q
| grej wrote:
| Guga is the best food channel on YouTube! (Note that the
| microwave made a tough brisket)
| linsomniac wrote:
| I like Guga, super well produced, some interesting
| experiments, have made some delicious food inspired by him.
|
| You Suck At Cooking is weird, but has some delicious food
| ideas and is fairly fun, if you get into his humor.
|
| Kent Rollins makes some amazing food, and is super wholesome.
| His slider recipe is one of our favorites.
|
| Nat's How I Reckon is profane, and funny, but also "Anyone
| can make good food", but also just has good technique to pass
| along.
| lenkite wrote:
| Wow, cooking brisket in a microwave in fraction of the time.
| Didn't even know this was possible!
| jfrunyon wrote:
| 1) Given that "science" means knowledge, anything successful is
| science. 2) Given that "science" describes a fact-, logic-based
| approach to doing things, anything following such an approach is
| science.
| bkjelden wrote:
| For those just starting out, pork butt is _way_ more forgiving
| than brisket.
| NoNotTheDuo wrote:
| And a helluva lot cheaper!
| darkmagnus wrote:
| or ribs
| phamilton wrote:
| 3-2-1 method on ribs is pretty bulletproof.
|
| 3 hours unwrapped, then 2 hours wrapped with butter and
| sauce, then 1 hour unwrapped.
| PUSH_AX wrote:
| I've found that any timings in general are best avoided.
| Focus more on internal temp and probe tenderness. I think
| 321 works because ribs are normally not that thick and 6
| hours is already pretty long so nearly all ribs are done or
| even over done with this process.
| wrboyce wrote:
| Usually I'd agree but for pork ribs? Bend test every
| time.
| Wistar wrote:
| I have done a lot of fussy brisket cooks using a variety of
| cookers, Hasty-Bake, Komodo, hand-made fire brick wood pit,
| pellet, Oyler, Cookshack, Memphis and, one sleepless night, I
| happened across this video from America's Test Kitchen where they
| use a simple Weber kettle and exactly 108 charcoal briquets and,
| so, I tried it. You know what? It is really good. They address
| the evaporative cooling stall and everything.
|
| https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8PE3-p0wNiU
| selimthegrim wrote:
| I did this but did not have a meat thermometer nor did I rest
| the brisket in a warmer per se or wrap it (for lack of
| appropriate gloves). 15 hours was good for the point but there
| were spots in between the point and flat that turned out rarer
| than I would have liked and the fat didn't render as much as it
| could have (I used a 16 lb prime brisket and referred to the
| recent TX Monthly article that talks about the ATK recipe as
| well)
| Wistar wrote:
| The wrapping is crucial.
| hnick wrote:
| That looks like way too much charcoal to me, which might
| explain why I always have heat issues in my kettle! But it gave
| what looks like a perfect result.
|
| Pity that finding a full brisket, let alone with the fat cap
| intact, is a hard feat in Australia. And very expensive if you
| do.
| tptacek wrote:
| Some people call what ATK is doing there the "snake" method;
| it's also the principle behind the Slow-N-Sear, which is a
| charcoal basket with an attached water channel that burns from
| one side slowly to the other.
|
| I've had much better luck with Weber Kettle techniques than
| with any other devices, including a BGE, which I think is
| pretty overrated.
| Ansil849 wrote:
| This is a lazy headline. What physical process 'isn't science'?
| crazygringo wrote:
| This is really excellent to know.
|
| Presumably then, not only will wrapping in foil at the 170degF
| mark skip the stall, but it will also result in _moister_ meat
| since you 're not losing all that water to evaporation?
|
| Years ago, I figured out that essentially steaming pork ribs and
| then finishing them at high heat resulted in the juiciest tender
| ribs I'd ever had. (As well as being much faster.)
|
| I know the concern with wrapping pork and brisket in foil is in
| not having a bark... but can't that be somewhat alleviated by
| finishing it off at high temp without foil, once it's hit the
| desired internal temperature? Or is there something uniquely
| special about a "slow-cooked" bark that's worth the overall loss
| in moisture, that high heat can't accomplish?
| bgentry wrote:
| If you wrap brisket with foil, your final product will taste
| like metallic pot roast. The butcher paper wrap allows some
| transfer of moisture out and smoke flavor in, and is the best
| combination.
|
| Most of the "moisture" you notice in the final product is from
| rendered fat, not water content. Though of course you don't
| want the meat to dry out, which is why all long cooks should be
| accompanied by a water pan.
|
| Brisket bark is not at all the same as the pork rib char you're
| referring to; it's the product of hours of reaction between
| smoke, salt, pepper, and fat on the surface of the meat. I
| agree on ribs though, I think the steamed + grill finished rib
| style outshines most smoked ribs!
| tptacek wrote:
| Allowing moisture out is what's causing the stall. Over the
| span of a brisket cook, you'll have no trouble at all getting
| enough smoke flavor in. You don't wrap the brisket for the
| whole cook.
| splitstud wrote:
| Gospel truth
| bgentry wrote:
| Of course you're not supposed to wrap for the whole cook, I
| never suggested anything of the sort.
|
| Generally you wrap around the time of the stall or when the
| meat has developed enough bark. For a brisket, this tends
| to be in the ~170deg range.
|
| Humidity is a major factor in shortening the stall, because
| the stall comes from evaporative cooling as the meat loses
| moisture. If you keep a large water pan at the hottest spot
| of your cooker, this makes the stall dramatically shorter
| because there will be less evaporation in a humid chamber.
|
| I will reiterate that for a brisket, the flavor you'll get
| from wrapping in butcher paper is far superior to that of a
| foil wrap. I live in Austin and have tried all of the best
| brisket around here. Anything wrapped in foil (i.e. Snow's)
| is in a tier far below the best places (Franklin, La
| Barbecue, Micklethwait), every one of which wraps in
| butcher paper. There's a reason for that! The aluminum foil
| really does inflict a distinctive pot roast flavor from the
| steaming of the brisket, a flavor that does not occur with
| butcher paper wrapping.
|
| Beyond that, the other most important advice (noted
| elsewhere in this thread) is to allow a very long rest
| period after the cook, ideally 12+ hours at around
| 140-145deg. This is what causes the brisket to really relax
| and the rest of its collagen to melt _without_ drying out.
| My brisket cooks these days use a schedule similar to
| Franklin: cook all day, aim to finish just before bedtime,
| and then rest in a low warmer all night for lunchtime bbq
| the next day.
|
| Pork butts are a very different beast and none of the above
| advice is applicable there, except the importance of a
| water pan.
| crazygringo wrote:
| Just wanted to say thank you for all that. Super super
| helpful and informative.
| bgentry wrote:
| Sure thing! Most of the good stuff I've learned from
| Aaron Franklin one way or another. He's got his PBS
| series, along with the extended segments available on
| YouTube, his Masterclass, book, etc. Really great
| resources :)
|
| I'll also add that I was originally doing a cook all
| night type of schedule. It was fun to do a couple of
| times, but the sleep loss isn't great. The cook all day /
| rest all night schedule is a lot more fun and gets a
| better result too!
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